A year or so ago, Richard, an Evangelical Christian, sent me an email, to which I responded in the post Dear Richard, the Evangelical Christian. Richard did not respond to my post, either by commenting or sending me an email.
Today, Richard sent me another email, which is reproduced below. In round two, I will attempt to respond to Richard again. (All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original.)
Bruce, I wrote you about fourteen months ago. I am glad that you are still alive, for where there is life, there is hope.
Richard, I find it troublesome that the only reason you’re glad I’m still alive is so I might yet get saved. 2024 was a difficult year for me physically. Four months ago, I had major surgery on my spine. I am still recovering from this procedure. I continue to have increasing problems with gastroparesis and exocrine pancreatic insufficiency — both of which have robbed me of the joy of eating. I’m on the short side of life, so I’m glad to be alive, not so I still have an opportunity to get washed in the blood of Jesus, but because I want to spend as much time as possible with my partner, children, daughters-in-law, and grandchildren. I hope to live another day for them, knowing they will miss me when I’m gone. There’s no Heaven, Hell, or afterlife, so each day matters to me, knowing that the moment I draw my last breath, life will end for me. Most days, I think that sucks, but some days my pain is so severe that death seems preferable to living, Fortunately, such moments pass. Whether that will always be the case, I know not.
Hope, from my perspective, is the promise of tomorrow. Since death is the end of the road for all of us, my hope focuses on what life I have left; which may be an hour, a day, a month, or a year or two or three. I want to cram as much living into my life as possible. I have no interest in spending time on mythical beings or Bible verses that have no relevance or bearing on my life.
God has given His human creation and His angelic host free-will (i.e., the right to choose their destiny in life and death).
First, I’m an atheist, so I reject the notion that God created us.
Second, I reject the notion that we have libertarian free will. As a Christian, I didn’t believe in free will either. Surely you don’t believe sinners can get saved any time they want.
If you want to have a debate about free will, I’m game. I’m well versed in what the Bible says on the matter.
Your website states that you are both a humanist and an atheist, but that may not be altogether true. You did not start out that way. At some point in time, you made a conscious choice to move in that direction.
What do you mean by “that may not be altogether true”? I am a humanist and an atheist. Are you saying I’m lying or that I don’t know what I believe?
Yes, I chose to be an atheist and a humanist. I also chose to be a Christian and a pastor. I chose to marry Polly and have six children with her. I chose to spend twenty-five years pastoring churches, just as I chose to walk away from Christianity almost seventeen years ago.
Since you have free will and as long as you have life, you have the right to stay with your current position or adopt some other position in the future!
Sure, and I will become a Christian the moment I am provided persuasive evidence for the existence of God and the supernatural claims of the Bible. Do you have such evidence, Richard? If so, I would love to see it. Preaching at me will not work, and neither will quoting Bible verses.
The measure of true character is the actions we take when we are under enormous stress/pressure.
I agree, and that is why you should compliment me for being willing to be honest and deconvert, even though I was under tremendous pressure to remain a Christian, under threats of judgment and Hell.
The Garden of Gethsemane was thebest opportunity by Satan to subvert God’s plan of salvation for His human creation. If Jesus had died in the Garden and not on the cross, He would not have died an ignominious, humiliating death on a Roman cross, but He also would not have been able to completely fulfill all that was foretold about Him in the Scriptures. Jesus did not take the easy way out, but drank the full cup of suffering He was required to drink to satisfy the complete payment for our sins.
Richard, I have suffered far more than Jesus did. He had a really bad day hanging on the cross, but then he died and was resurrected 48-72 hours later. I have battled chronic illness and pain for over twenty years. No ascension to Heaven for me. Just painful suffering from the moment I awake until I fall asleep — that is, IF I sleep. Many nights, I sleep an hour or so at a time before pain in my spine, neck, legs, or shoulders wakes me up.
I hope you know your sermonizing means nothing to me. Jesus lived and died, end of story. You assume facts not in evidence; claims based on faith, not evidence.
Bruce, in a race, especially the race of life, the most important stage of the race is to finish strong and hopefully win.
That’s not how I live my life. Life is all about the journey and not the destination. Since we all die, none of us can “win.” Live long enough and you will face and experience diminished capacity and strength. I am a shell of the man I once was physically.
I live for the moment, Richard. If my life ends today, it will be with the knowledge that I have lived a good life; that I have been blessed to spend forty-six years with my best friend and lover; and that I have lived long enough to see some of my grandchildren graduate from high school and go off to college. I’ve had a good life, so what could your Jesus add to my life? Nothing that I can think of.
Jesus is the One I try to emulate. He claimed that His Word is truth and He also claimed to be the Way, the Truth, and the Life. I believe Him. He spoke of Hell in very graphic terms and convinced me that Hell is somewhere I do not even want to visit, let alone spend eternity there.
So what? I don’t care what the Bible says. I don’t think the Bible is a supernatural text written by a supernatural God.
If you are a sincere seeker of truth, please rethink your view of Hell. A good book on this subject is Dr. Bart Ehrman’s book Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife.
I do not fear Hell, because I am confident that no such place exists. The Evangelical Hell is used as a tool to elicit fear in non-Christians so they will get saved. Its ultimate use is to put asses in church pews and money in offering plates.
And even if I believed in the existence of a place called Hell — a place created by God to eternally punish non-Christians — I would not worship God. Any deity that punishes finite sins with eternal punishment is not a God worthy of worship. Such a God is a moral monster.
The other day, I listened to a video broadcast between two well-known and respected scientists who, at the start of their lives both knew hardly anything about God, but now are both committed Christians. One is a chemist and the other one is a physicist. The chemist grew up in a secular Jewish home, yet has a love relationship and a closeness with Jesus that I wish I had but do not yet have.
I am including a link below regarding that video I heard. Bruce, you might even enjoy it and it could rekindle something that died long ago.
No thanks. You seem to not understand why I deconverted. Please read or re-read the posts found on the Why? page. A YouTube video is not going to change my mind about the existence of the Christian deity. I was an Evangelical Christian for almost fifty years I have a Bible college education and pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years. I spent 20,000 hours reading and studying the Bible. You really don’t understand my story if you think this video is going to “rekindle something that died long ago.” Give me credit for doing my homework, Richard. When I deconverted in 2008, I did so with eyes wide open, knowing that I was making the right decision.
And for the record, Dr. James Tour [one of the scientists on the video] is a dick. He is a terrible advertisement for Christianity.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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I’ll endorse your comment about James Tour. He’s a most unpleasant and possibly dishonest individual. One has only to watch his debates, and subsequent online arguments, with Dave Farina (professor Dave). Whilst I can’t directly comment on the science he uses to prove his point Dave certainly can, and the tantrums that Tour throws are both unbecoming and take away from any credibility he might have. Worse than this, I’ve seen a former colleague of Tour interviewed on YouTube and in which he claims that Tour never, or seldom, produced any of the papers to which he laid claim, relying on the work of others. His unpleasant demeanour and position in the department apparently made it nigh on impossible for people to speak out until they had escaped his influence. I might also say that he’s one of those individuals to whom most people (certainly me) take an instant dislike for some reason, though this may be a tad unfair.
I guess we misunderstood your earlier announcement about leaving social media. The blog itself still going on! Great!
Yes, I am definitely still blogging. I need to focus my attention on my writing. Social media became a distraction. Worse, something changed on Facebook’s end. My page post reach dropped down next to nothing. Lots of work with little return.
Richard: “God has given His human creation and His angelic host free-will (i.e., the right to choose their destiny in life and death).”
Zoe: I get so tired of the free-will stuff.