Several years ago, a self-identified Evangelical Christian apologist left the following comment:
Both you and Ray [Boltz] were very passionate about the Lord for many many years. And Ray still is. I don’t believe in people losing their salvation so I look to you as a brother who got very very weak in his faith. I think Ray is a very strong believer who has found a liberal church to condone his lifestyle. So are they all unsaved because they don’t see it like us?? I say who are we to make that judgement call??? If you believe in Christ from your heart you are given eternal life period..you are saved. I believe you both have done that.
The commenter is a proponent of the doctrine of once-saved-always-saved. At the age of fifteen, I asked Jesus to save me. For the next thirty-five years, I was a committed, devoted follower of Jesus. I pastored Evangelical churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan for twenty-five of those years. Based on my decision at age fifteen, the commenter mentioned above concluded that I was still a Christian — once-saved-always-saved. While I know this doctrine well — having grown up in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement — I have long believed that this idea is absurd. Yes, I lived as a Christian for four decades, but there’s is nothing in my life today that remotely suggests that I am still a Christian. I have spent the past seventeen years opposing Christianity in general, and Evangelicalism in particular. I proudly self-identify as an agnostic atheist, yet, according to this commenter, because I sincerely prayed the sinner’s prayer at age fifteen, I am still a Christian. There is nothing I can do to divorce Jesus. We are married, no matter what I do or how I live. I can fuck every other God and make a mockery of my marriage to Jesus, yet I am still married to him. Nothing, according to the Bible, can separate me from the love of Christ. (Romans 8:31-39) Think, for a moment, about the men featured in the Black Collar Crime Series. All of these men likely had similar religious experiences to mine. The difference, of course, is that they raped and sexually molested children and took advantage of vulnerable congregants, and I did not. Yet, according to the aforementioned commenter, these vile, disgusting “men of God” are still saved, and when these men die, they will inhabit the same Heaven as the children and congregants they harmed. Is there any Christian doctrine more disgusting than once-saved-always-saved?
Look, I get it. Evangelicals who believe in once-saved-always-saved are hemmed in by their literalistic beliefs and interpretations of the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God. Instead of stating the obvious — people can and do walk away from Christianity — proponents of once-saved-always-saved are forced to defend the indefensible. Christian salvation is reduced to a momentary transaction in time, and once the transaction is completed salvation is sure and secure. Are there Bible verses that teach once-saved-always-saved? Absolutely! But some verses teach the perseverance/preservation of the saints and conditional salvation. Any and every doctrine Christians believe can be justified by the Bible. The Bible is a book that can be used to prove almost anything. When asked if the Calvinists or the Arminians are right, I reply, “They both are.”
The Bible speaks of a “faith once delivered to the saints.” This suggests that Christianity is singular in nature. However, it is clear, at least to me, that there are numerous Christianities, each believing that their sect/church is True Christianity®. Christians can’t even agree on the basics: salvation, baptism, and communion. Millions of theological tomes have been written, each defending a peculiar theological system. According to Evangelicals, the Bible can be understood by children, yet pastors spend years in college learning how to interpret the Bible. Their study shelves are lined with books that break down the Bible into singular words and clauses. Baptists and Campbellites fight to the death over one Greek word in Acts 2:38 — the word eis. Evangelical Internet forums and Facebook groups are filled with people who spend their days and nights debating the nuances of this or that interpretation of the Bible. Once-saved-always-saved is one such interpretation.
From Pascal’s perspective, once-saved-always-saved is a good deal. I have said the prayer, and now I am headed for God’s Heaven when I die. No matter what I say or do, a room has been reserved for me in the Father’s mansion. (John 14:1-6) Sweet deal, right?
I have decided to call myself a Christian Atheist®. Sounds crazy, I know, but is this not the logical conclusion of once-saved-always-saved? I am in every way an atheist, yet because of the prayer I prayed at the altar of Trinity Baptist Church in Findlay, Ohio at age fifteen, I am a Christian. Or so some Evangelicals say, anyway.
I feel embarrassed for Jesus. Well, I would anyway, if he were still alive. But, he’s not. Jesus’s bones lie buried somewhere in the sandy soil of Palestine. Consider what I am saying here. I deny that Jesus resurrected from the dead. Is not Jesus’s resurrection central to Christian belief and practice? How can one deny Jesus’s resurrection and his divinity and still be a Christian?
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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I’ve always wondered about this from the Arminian point of view- a person is a horrible human being, victimizing others their whole life, etc., but on their death bed, or right before they’re led to execution they say the right words to a priest or pastor and now everything is great and they are admitted into heaven (or even purgatory for that matter).. nothing they did in this life matters, not the murder(s), the sexual abuse, the pathological lying, stealing, stalking, etc. Not the fact that they were a pastor or a priest while they committed their crimes..or claimed to everyone they were a devoted follower of Christ who also abandoned their family or watched pornography 24-7 in their basement (not thinking of any one “Christian” in particular).
I get the idea that “all have sinned”, but there is “sin” inasmuch as I am just as imperfect as the next person, then there is atrocity. No, I can’t tell you where the line is, but like the Supreme Court justice who was asked how he distinguished between pornography and art, he responded, “I know it (pornography) when I see it”.
I guess the answer, at least from a religious perspective, is whether the person sincerely repented of their deeds (and to a Catholic, received absolution),
I personally think a person can indeed redeem themselves, but I also think a lot of folks in these predicaments had numerous opportunities to repent and stop their behavior, but chose not to because they were taught that they only needed to say the sinner’s prayer right before the warden flips the switch or the doctor pulls the plug, and all would be forgiven. So they just persist in their conduct instead.
” So are they all unsaved because they don’t see it like us?? I say who are we to make that judgement call??? ” Yep and also, are you saved by someone ELSE’s faith in your salvation? (Though you don’t believe it?) Now that’s big power even for faith. Am I right? If faith has power over others who have none, it should be handled with care.
Well now what in the world caused Bruce to run away from Jesus in the 1st place?
I haven’t run anywhere in twenty-five years. I divorced Jesus and calmly walked away. If you really want to know why I deconverted, please read the posts found here: https://brucegerencser.net/why/
Let’s see if you are an honest, thoughtful interlocutor.
How can we say we are “always” anything–unless we aren’t changing (i.e., dead)?
What’s funny is that I grew up in a once-saved-always-saved sect, but my uncle tried to proselytize to me after my daughter told him we’re atheists. 🤣 Even though I had spent a lot of time prior talking doctrine, church history, etc with him. I thought it was funny.
No, I’m not a “saved” Christian. According to our sects rules, though, I once was. However, I am sure some would say I never was actually saved. Whatever.