I listen to several atheist call-in shows that try to get Christians to call in and defend the existence of God. How can anyone prove God’s existence? Some Christians will appeal to the Bible as justification for their God belief. However, the Bible is a book of claims, and not evidence for the existence of the Christian deity. When attempts to appeal to the Bible fail — as they almost always do — Christians will often appeal to personal testimonies as evidence for God’s existence. However, much like the Bible, personal testimonies provide no evidence for the existence of God. Personal testimonies are subjective, providing no empirical evidence for God’s existence. It’s fine for an individual believer to appeal to the Bible or personal testimony. However, Bible verses and testimonies provide no evidence to anyone other than the individual Christian.
How can anyone possibly know the Christian God is real based on Bible verses or personal experiences? They can’t. The individual believer may find their interpretations of the Bible and personal experiences sufficient to justify their belief in God, but these “proofs” for the believer fall flat to non-Christians.
If you want to win atheists to Christ, it will take more than prooftexts and personal testimonies. These claims rarely, if ever, convince atheists of the existence of God or any of the other supernatural claims Evangelicals are fond of making.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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By coincidence, I’ve just been given a newly-published, 40-page booklet by an apologist whom I know. He makes much of the solid, concrete evidence for the bible’s claims of salvation only through knowing jesus. He claims that millions have known that saving power and writes a brief description of a five of them, namely, Peter, Paul, John Newton, Gladys Aylward and Nick Vujicic. I didn’t know whether to LOL, or to facepalm – maybe both – at those names. Wow, the power of them….will bring many doubters to their knees….NOT, in secular Britain. He’s an academic, I find his false reasoning hard to believe….but it makes perfect sense to someone deep in their fundy bubble!.
I wonder if the guy in that photo realizes that lesbians have one of of the lowest rates of HIV transmissions? Does that mean that lesbians are God’s chosen people? Seriously, HIV affects everyone. Fuck those who say it’s god judgement on the wicked.
That young man in the photo looks incredibly unhappy. I wonder what image he thinks he’s projecting to the world? He probably thinks he’s a warrior for God, spreading truth and warning to the “lost”. He’s probably proud of himself for standing up to the “world”. He may even struggle with “same sex attraction” and is doubling down to resist temptation. I see a young man who has been indoctrinated from a young age, and he probably hasn’t had exposure to any way out. Yes, I’m making assumptions about this young man, but I’d bet most of my assumptions are correct.
Recently, I spent several weeks in Asia with a colleague who lives in China. He’s in his early 50s, educated as a chemical engineer (though he is passionate about art, but his parents forced him to study engineering). He spoke of the massive pressure to succeed academically and how he made himself sick working so hard as a student. He said college was easy compared to education through high school. He started exploring Christianity as a young 20-something. He met some Christian missionaries who were targeting students. They were kind to him when he was lonely, and he started reading and studying their materials. It took awhile, but he became a Christian. He convinced his wife to convert too. His parents thought he was nuts – they haven’t converted but are kinder to him. He and his wife follow traditional gender roles with the wife homeschooling the kids using contraband materials from the US. His oldest son is a college student at an evangelical college in the US. I tried to dig into “what kind of Christian” he is. He was recruited by Navigators (an evangelical college organization), was Baptist for awhile but found them too legalistic, and he now is affiliated with Presbyterian Church USA from what i can tell. I’m not sure what he thinks of working for a US company with capable female president and vice-president and a not-so-competent male COO but he seems to respect us. Anyway, it was interesting talking with him. He’s very well read and thoughtful. Loves CS Lewis. I told him I’d read the Westminster Confession so we can discuss, but I haven’t been able to get thru it yet lol. He knows I have an evangelical background but I haven’t told him I’m agnostic atheist (though I think he suspects).
Where I’m going here is that I can have conversations with religious people, hear their views, engage in sharing of ideas, but it’s not enough to constitute proof. You like your religion and it makes you happy or peaceful? Great, I’m glad for you. But that’s not going to turn me into a believer.
Thanks, OC for a great post on this topic. I think it is most awesome that you are willing to have friends that have different beliefs. Our world would be a lot better place if folks learned how to respect other’s “lanes”. Oft-time uber religious people put a respect chip on their shoulder and then act like they are being oppressed because someone asked them to give the same amount of respect that they ask for themself.
Like I always say, I have never felt disrespected on this page even though I am open about my faith. This speaks volumes about everyone’s maturity and character.
Yes, I’ve seen that photo of this kid. It’s a large fundamentalist family he belongs to, and this is in the South. His buzz cut and facial expression stood out. He obviously got roped into attending the protest against abortion or whatever. And he’d rather go play baseball instead. If he’s a minor, he’s stuck for now. I forgot the group he is trapped with. For the most part, Asian Christians are saner, unless a fanatic from America got to them and scared them intensely.