Recently, a Christian man named Marlin had this to say about me:
I dislike Dennis Corle and I know Jack Hyles was evil. But you’re using them as part of your excuse as to why you’re no longer Christian, when it’s pretty clear you never were a believer.
Dennis Corle and the late Jack Hyles are big names in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement. I have heard both men preach, and Corle held several revivals for me in the 1980s. I assume that Marlin is either a current IFB church member or a former one. Either way, his comment reveals a common IFB trait: making moral judgments without evidence to justify their conclusions. Marlin says it is clear that I was never a “believer,” yet he provides no evidence for his claim. He doesn’t personally know me, so he has no personal experiences with me to base his judgments upon. Further, he doesn’t provide any anecdotal or personal testimony from former congregants or colleagues in the ministry — you know, people who actually knew me — that bolsters his claim about my salvation. Despite not having any evidence to justify his claims, Marlin is cocksure that I was never a Christian.
Marlin suggests that it was people like Dennis Corle and Jack Hyles who played an instrumental part in my deconversion. This claim is patently false. I don’t believe I have ever suggested that these men or other preachers played a part in my loss of faith. I left the IFB church movement in the late 1980s, twenty years before I deconverted. While I was still an Evangelical Christian, I no longer ran in IFB circles.
I have made it clear over the years that I left Christianity for primarily intellectual reasons. Sure, there were emotional factors too, but at the end of the day, I left Christianity because it no longer made any sense to me.
If Marlin thinks otherwise, I suggest he provide evidence for his claims. Or he can admit that his claims are false. Marlin claims to be a Christian. I accept his claim at face value. If someone says they are a Christian, I believe them. Sadly, Evangelicals-turned-atheists are not given the same respect. Marlin KNOWS I never was a follower of Jesus, and this allows him to dismiss my story out of hand. Accepting my story as it causes cognitive dissonance and theological problems, so it is just easier to assert that I was never a Christian.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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I’m getting a vague deja vu about the name ‘Marlin’. Has he got a history of commenting here or am I remembering the name from the old Patheos forums?
You might be thinking of Marfin.
That’s probably it! Whoever it was was a more nuanced commenter than this Marlin.
You know, Marlin, like Bruce, I deconverted after decades of ardent service to jesus. And I did so for the same reason, I could no longer make sense of the bible’s claims – though I wished and prayed fervently I could continue to do so. I know I’ll never go back. Not only because I see the falsehood and fiction it is, but also because I will never want to be associated with any church group. I’ve discovered more than a few in my former circles – and beyond – are in fact hypocrites, liars, they’ve had extra-marital affairs, abuse their kids or secretly use porn or paedophile websites etc etc……….whilst claiming the moral high ground. I wish you could free yourself from your fundy shackles and step out of your darkness. It’s great out here in the sunshine of non belief.
Man, Matilda, that royally sucks! I seriously don’t blame you for leaving that. I would think that God Himself would rather you be out clubbing than being in THAT vomitous, lukewarm, hideous, no Holy Spirit Allowed, so no real transformation, place! Either you are, or you aren’t. Why waste your life faking and pretending? I’m not saying you were fake, I’m talking about the environment you were in. I was in something like that as a teenager, but left after 2 years of it. I can’t imagine how being in that for like 20 or so years 😕 could affect a person. Of course, it couldn’t have all been bad, I’m sure there was also alot of good, but it sounds like a rather disproportionate amount of folks there were silently dying inside spiritually. That’s heartbreaking 💔.
Your psychological analysis is not helpful. Better to let Matilda tell her own story without all the psychobabble.
I’m sorry if it sounds like I’m judging what you guys were part of. I don’t want to come off that way. I’m sure you were sincere and that it was not all bad. It’s just, as someone looking in from the outside, the way you describe it sounds really bad.
And I have challenged you on this faulty conclusion.
For most of us raised in any version of Christianity who truly believed, deconversion tends to be a long, painful experience. We are letting go of what we were taught was absolutely true and reasoning that it was not. For some, there was the additional data that fellow religious community members were behaving in ways that denied their own beliefs. Some, like me, came to the realization that the religious narrative worsened mental health issues. Others experienced different triggers of cognitive dissonance that we needed to resolve.
I’m a big fan of live and let live, and would never tell anyone that their religious beliefs, or lack of belief, are wrong, at least until those beliefs lead to legislating hardship on my fellow citizens. But it’d be great if believers of any sect would give me the same grace. I live in a very multicultural/multireligious area of the US. I have never had Taoists, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Muslims, Baha’is, Jews, Catholics, liberal Protestants, or anti-theists pester me about my beliefs. Evangelical Christians and Jehovah’s Witnesses make themselves pests.
Intellectual reasons? You left Christianity after your neurological problems left you wheelchair-bound. You’re a sad, bitter old man. You were never a Christian because your idol is yourself. You loved your ability to walk and yourself more than the Lord. Now you claim your superior intellect evolved you beyond the things of God as if it gives you some great depth; it only illustrates what a pretentious, arrogant fool you are.
https://brucegerencser.net/2025/09/christian-man-lets-me-know-i-never-was-on-team-jesus-part-two/
Wow…speaking of bitter, pretentious, and arrogant…
Marlin, because you belong to the IFB, a religious cult ( homegrown American version) you aren’t qualified to make a judgement call here.
Another day, another True Believer™ committing false witness against a former Christian. Sigh…
Speaking as a former Christian I think that this guy like many gung ho Christians suppress a fear that their faith may not be true so when faced with people like Bruce that fear starts to bubble to the surface. Their only weapon is to attack the deconverted. If a devout born again Christian can leave the faith maybe it’s not true after all. Wait a minute he wasn’t really ever one of us so nothing to fear
I guess to be fair, some Christians cling onto this verse that because we left the tribe, therefore we were never really part of the tribe. An ancient take on the “no true Scotsman” fallacy.
1 John 2:19, which states: “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us” (KJV).
Still, a lot of us deconstructed because things just did not make sense. That was true for me. Don’t discount our true, lived experiences just because you don’t like them.
No one who has experienced true salvation through Jesus Christ who is the light runs back into satanic darkness to the degree you have Bruce.
At least i don’t lie, as you do every time you comment on this site. And you know, Revival Fires, what the Bible says about liars. If I will burn in Hell someday, so will you. See ya soon, buddy!
Lets’s diagram this sentence-did you omit a couple of commas?
😅😅
But there WAS no analysis of Matilda in what I wrote! I was merely saying that i didn’t blame her for leaving. It’s easy to see that from what I said.
Just once, I’d like you to own this behavior. I have pointed it out several times.
Wow Marlin. Lemme guess, you’re a good, pious, humble servant of God, worshipping in the right way (unlike all those other filfthy followers of other versions of other religions), and therefore somehow perfectly placed to judge others? The arrogance leeches from your comment, almost as much as your cruelty.
I own what is accurate, I’ve got no problem owning and seeing what is true about what I really mean when I write something, what my intentions are, and what I’m.trying to get across. Yes, I have made comments before about what I thought was a form of ptsd. I own that. There was no ill intent with that, I was actually feeling compassion. In my comment here, there was 0% analysis of a person. You’re the one analyzing me here, and what I meant, but you don’t know me well enough. I’m not upset or angry, I’m just speaking truthfully and objectively.
“You’re the one analyzing me here, and what I meant, but you don’t know me well enough. I’m not upset or angry, I’m just speaking truthfully and objectively.”
Nice try. You are trying to gaslight me and the readers of this blog.
What on earth is gaslighting? I don’t even know what that word means! 😕 I’m not trying to do ANYTHING! I’m just a reader and commenter like everyone else on here, why are you saying these things about me? Is that an IFB thing? I’m not saying this to mock or belittle, I’m just sincerely asking, wtf?
Terri, look it up. As someone who seemed familiar with PTSD, one might think you’d be familiar with the term “gaslighting.”
Google is your friend:
“the practice of psychologically manipulating someone into questioning their own sanity, memory, or powers of reasoning.”
This is what you are doing when you psychoanalyze people and then deny you are doing it.
I’m not trying to do ANY of that…manipulating someone to question their own sanity, etc. I don’t even THINK like that. Sheesh.
From my own lived-experience. Gaslighting.
That’s not true Zoe and you know it!
That’s not what I said!
Well, if I said it, it’s not what a meant!
You are wrong!
You said that! I did not say that!
What is wrong with you?
I’m not like that?
Now you are doing to me what you said I was doing to you?
That is not what I believe!
Well you misunderstood.
That’s your problem!
I’m not stupid!
I don’t believe you.
You don’t know what you are talking about.
You’ll see. You’ll see one day that I’m right.
Well, that’s your fault.
And the beat goes on . . . and the beat goes on.
That sounds like arguing for the sake of arguing. . But if you say something, and people accuse you of meaning something you didn’t even think of, then it’s normal to communicate clearly in order facilitate proper understanding of one another. That’s not arguing, that’s healthy communication.
Terri,
Telling me that my experience with gaslighting is not gaslighting, is gaslighting. 🙂
Lol, I wasn’t talking about u or your experiences, I was saying that I wasn’t doing it 😂 HERE, lololol!! Holy forkin’ paranoia!
Yes, that is exactly what a gaslighter would say Terri.
Oh, for Pete’s sake, Zoe, with all due respect 🙏, go argue with the lamp-post. I’ve got no time for this. This is nothing but silly. I am not judging you. You have no need to judge me, either. I’ve a VERY busy week or so ahead of me, with very important family time. My mother just died. I haven’t got time.
Well, let me gaslight you Terri and say, “I’m not arguing!” And please, don’t play the victim Terri. Go in peace. There is no need to lay blame at my feet. You asked originally, what gaslighting is. I engaged you with sincerity and no judgement. Your attempt to shame me is inappropriate. I haven’t got time for you Zoe. My god girl, my mother died! Have some respect for my VERY busy life and my mother just died.
If I wasn’t the real deal as a Christian, then literally nobody ever could have been. You perfectly describe what this sneering, craven accusation looks like – and I see some of it in the Christian responses to the post. They haven’t changed a bit. We know them by their (lack of) love.
Cowardly Christians just lob those accusations because they want to move the focus to invalidating your claims to have been Christian. But one need not ever have been Christian to reject Christian claims. Keep the focus on the claims that didn’t turn out to be true. Our past as ex-Christians matters to us, and it should. But bad-faith actors like these do not deserve the time spent in elaboration.
Mine: Prayer in the real world looks absolutely nothing like the way the Bible describes it – and even less like Christians claim it should look like. That was my final straw. I was holding on by a thread already, but that completely drained the water out of my faith pool. I can’t believe in Christian claims anymore. None of them are true. Maybe that’s okay with the cowards who want to avoid looking squarely at their beliefs, but I have a very deep need to build my worldview and beliefs on only that which is true and real. Christianity ain’t it.
It amuses me to think that some ancient god was “the real one” – until we forgot about him tens of thousands of years ago. Just imagine his ivory-carved animal-headed idol shrieking in a barrow underground somewhere, furious that he’s been abandoned! Really, it makes more sense for gods to emerge early in humankind’s history than so late in our game. (It’s not true either, yes, I know, but it does amuse me.)
‘….If I wasn’t the real deal as a Christian, then literally nobody ever could have been. You perfectly describe what this sneering, craven accusation looks like – and I see some of it in the Christian responses to the post. They haven’t changed a bit. We know them by their (lack of) love…’
Well said, Captain. If Bruce, or you or I and other ex-xtians weren’t true believers whilst jesusing our socks off 24/7’*** for decades, but were jesusing all wrong, why on earth didn’t god show us the right way to do it? One word from him and we’d have changed to his correct methods in the blink of an eye.
**** I’ve plagiarised ‘jesused our socks off 24/7’ from reading your great blog….and others have commented what a wonderful and accurate description it is!
When I first started sharing that I could no longer call myself a Christian, the Christians that were my friends and acquaintances never once said I was never a Christian in the first place. I think they knew better. Strangely, it was as a Christian that my faith was questioned by other Christians. I get a headache thinking about it. Was I the right kind of Christian? Even my born-again experience was questioned. Good to hear from you Captain.
I suppose there are all sorts of nuanced feelings and behaviours going on in this “you were never a Christian” thing, but underlying it all I suspect is a sort of personal defence strategy. After all, if Bruce (and yourself, Captain Cassidy), were once the same as still believing fundamentalist Christians, then it’s conceivable that the latter might one day follow in your shoes. That can’t possibly happen so, therefore, you and Bruce were never ‘real’ Christians. If you were then, maybe, one day ’that could be me’; so you can’t possibly ever have been the real thing.
Something else occurred to me. Those of us who were in some sort of ministry and or in Bible School, clubs etc. formed close relationships with many fellow believers. There we felt safe and often people shared their doubts, about Biblical interpretation, denominational variations, doubts about Jesus and God. Those close friends I had in missionary ministry, were often very doubtful. So, then one day, one of your friends has decided they no longer believe. Shares that with them and suddenly they are “holy crap, Zoe jumped ship” all the while knowing and being vulnerable to the fact that Zoe knows they too questioned everything. It’s unnerving in the worse way and it is easier for the believer to drop the friendship than face the music, so to speak.
A lot of people have done what is called” de- churching,” rather than flat out deconverting. Americanism is so obnoxious and abusive,that many people aren’t going to church ever again. As long as they live in America anyway. I’m studying some books on the subject, like “The Case For Christian Nationalism.” Written by a CN, of course. I’d have to leave the country before I could go to a church again. The moldy spores of CN are the foundations for nearly all of the churches here.
My condolences to you, Terri for losing your mother. That’s never easy to deal with, and expect the first two years to be the hardest ( been there).
Thank you kindly, Yulya…I appreciate your kind, caring words. God bless you. ❤️
Hi there Zoe,
Not sure if you’ll see this, but I noticed in your last comment that you felt I was placing blame on you. And I’m here to assure you I wasn’t. That isn’t what I was trying to get across. I was trying to explain that I wasn’t trying to do what the definition of gaslighting was. I actually had heard the word before, but I had never bothered to look up the meaning. The thing with speaking in writing ✍️ over the internet is, we can’t see the other person’s facial expression, hear the tone of voice, so it can be easy to misunderstand. I didn’t know you were speaking without judgement. You did explain that in last comment. I just felt you weren’t hearing me, listening to me…that I wasn’t trying to do that. And no matter how I tried to explain it, I just felt you could not or would not believe me. I just didn’t want to get into a quarrel over nothing. 😕 I am sorry if I came across as harsh.