This is the latest installment in the Songs of Sacrilege series. This is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a song that is irreverent towards religion, makes fun of religion, pokes fun at sincerely held religious beliefs, or challenges the firmly held religious beliefs of others, please send me an email.
Today’s Song of Sacrilege isby White Wine in the Sun by Tim Minchin.
I really like Christmas It’s sentimental, I know But I just really like it
I am hardly religious I’d rather break bread with Dawkins Than Desmond Tutu, to be honest
And yes, I have all of the usual objections To consumerism To the commercialization of an ancient religion To the westernization of a dead Palestinian Press-ganged into selling PlayStations and beer But I still really like it
I’m looking forward to Christmas Though I’m not expecting A visit from Jesus
I’ll be seeing my dad My brother and sisters, my gran and my mum They’ll be drinking white wine in the sun I’ll be seeing my dad My brother and sisters, my gran and my mum They’ll be drinking white wine in the sun
I don’t go in for ancient wisdom I don’t believe just ’cause ideas are tenacious It means they’re worthy
I get freaked out by churches Some of the hymns that they sing have nice chords But the lyrics are dodgy
And yes, I have all of the usual objections To the miseducation Of children who, in tax-exempt institutions Are taught to externalize blame And to feel ashamed And to judge things as plain right and wrong But I quite like the songs
I’m not expecting big presents The old combination of socks, jocks and chocolates Is just fine by me
Cause I’ll be seeing my dad My brother and sisters, my gran and my mum They’ll be drinking white wine in the sun I’ll be seeing my dad My brother and sisters, my gran and my mum They’ll be drinking white wine in the sun
And you, my baby girl My jetlagged infant daughter You’ll be handed round the room Like a puppy at a primary school And you won’t understand But you will learn someday That wherever you are and whatever you face These are the people who’ll make you feel safe In this world My sweet blue-eyed girl
And if my baby girl When you’re twenty-one or thirty-one And Christmas comes around And you find yourself nine thousand miles from home You’ll know what ever comes
Your brothers and sisters and me and your mum Will be waiting for you in the sun Whenever you come Your brothers and sisters, your aunts and your uncles Your grandparents, cousins and me and your mum We’ll be waiting for you in the sun Drinking white wine in the sun Darling, when Christmas comes We’ll be waiting for you in the sun Drinking white wine in the sun Waiting for you in the sun Waiting for you Waiting
I really like Christmas It’s sentimental, I know
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
As readers of this blog know, I have a lot of critics; people who have plenty of negative things to say about me; people who preach sermons and write blog posts about me. Tim Conway, pastor of Grace Community Church in San Antonio described me this way: a dog, false Christ, false apostle, false prophet, false teacher, deceiver and antichrist, enemy of the cross, demonic, a man who led people to hell and destruction, a wolf in sheep’s clothing, driven by my lust. To Conway and others like him, I am a follower of Satan, a man who walks to and fro upon the earth seeking whom he may devour. What justification do my critics have for their caustic attacks on my person?
Instead of judging my life in context, my critics see that I am now an outspoken atheist and they conclude that I was never a Christian; that the twenty-five years I spent pastoring churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan, were a facade I used to cover up my true purpose: advancing the kingdom of Satan on earth. Of course, they have no evidence to justify this claim. If my grand ambition was to lead people away from Jesus, I sure wasn’t very good at it. Hundreds of people were saved under my preaching. Countless people will testify that I made a difference in their lives. I deeply loved and cared for the people I pastored. Not only did I minister to their spiritual needs, but I also ministered to their temporal needs. I was free with my time and money, hoping that I was a good example of someone who loved his neighbor as himself.
Theologically, I was solidly Evangelical, with a Calvinistic bent. No one ever leveled heresy charges against me. One man got upset with me one night when I preached on the love of God from John 3:16. He told me that he doubted that I was a “real” Calvinist. Another man objected to my Calvinistic view of the atonement, and later left the church. He would later return to the church, his life in shambles. I graciously embraced him and welcomed him and his wife back into our church. I tried not to burn bridges when people left the churches I pastored, though, occasionally I clapped and cheered in my mind when some people left. Good riddance! Too real? 🙂
I spent fifty years in the Evangelical church. I attended an Evangelical college and labored in God’s vineyard for twenty-five years. I preached special meetings and revivals for other churches and spoke at Bible conferences. I knew a lot of Evangelical and Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preachers. I broke bread with them at fellowship meetings and, occasionally, met them for breakfast or lunch. We would spend our time talking shop and discussing theology. I considered some of these preachers my friends.
All told, I came in contact with thousands of Christians; people who were bought-by-the-blood, filled-with-the-Holy-Ghost, sanctified lovers of Jesus. Not one of them, in the moment, ever doubted that I was a Christian; a God-called preacher. Not one of them leveled charges of heresy against me. If I were actually a follower of Satan, why didn’t any of these people who had the Holy Spirit living inside of them as their teacher and guide, know that I was? Was I such an expert deceiver that I deceived not only the people I pastored, but also my family and colleagues in the ministry? Of course not.
My critics who knew me when I was a pastor know that I was a True Christian®; that the bent of my life was toward holiness. They know how committed I was to studying, understanding, and preaching the Word of God. They know I diligently tried to seek and save those who were lost. Nothing in my life said to them at the moment that I was anything but a child of God.
Knowing these things to be true, why do my critics viciously attack and disparage me? Why do they say I never was a Christian? Why do they lie about me? Why do they refuse to accept my story at face value? You see, I am a conundrum to them. My life story doesn’t fit neatly in their peculiar theological box. They can’t use the typical arguments they use when someone deconverts: poorly taught, ignorant of the Bible, cultural Christian. None of these things applies to me, nor do they apply to many of the ex-Evangelicals I know.
There’s only one correct explanation of my life: Bruce Gerencser was once a Christian, and now he is not. Any other explanation is about my critics, not me; about their inability to reconcile my story with their peculiar theology. This, of course, is not my problem. Who better knows my life than me?
I suspect that for many of my critics, the real issue is fear. They say to themselves, “If Bruce Gerencser can fall from grace or be so deceived that he was never a real Christian, could not the same happen to me? Yes, the same could happen to you, and to Loki, my Lord and Savior, I pray, “Make it so.”
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Elizabeth Prata, an Evangelical Calvinist and the author of The End Time blog, becomes the latest person to attempt to delegitimize and explain away the storylines of Evangelicals-turned-atheists. No matter what we say about how we lived our lives as devoted followers of Jesus and why we later walked (or ran) away from Christianity, Prata knows better. Rather than accept narratives of loss of faith at face value, Prata concocts a strawman of the Evangelical-turned-atheist in her mind so she can make her peculiar theology “fit” our deconversion stories. In her mind, there’s no such thing as an ex-Christian. Anyone who deconverts was never a Christian to start with.
Those who fell away were never really one of Jesus’ elect to begin with.
….
And before the person started falling away, in came sneaky heresies they began listening to. They enjoyed these false teachings and heresies because their darkened heart had never experienced the light.
….
So the progression is: profess Christ by mouth… but since there was no visible fruit to show the state of grace they were claiming on the inside, they were never really saved & regeneration never occurred; fail to walk closely with Jesus by procrastinating in discipleship, Bible study, prayer, and/or worship, furthering the distance between themselves and Jesus; (OR, faithfully attending church and Bible study but due to hard heart always were learning but never able to come to knowledge of the truth); listen to or promote destructive heresies that either they knowingly or unknowingly begin to believe, start doubting Christ’s sufficiency; doubt more, and then slide into apostasy’s full blown renunciation and end up in a state of atheism.
….
The end result of a Christian in name only – that is, one who claimed Jesus but never really believed – and is one who is at risk of being tempted by destructive heresies, and ultimately of apostasy. What comes next is atheism.
Atheism is a natural cul-de-sac in the road away from the cross.
….
Which, I suspect, could be one of the reasons Peter said it makes a person worse off from what they were before. After apostasy settles in and atheism rears its head, a person is well and truly now in the dangerous pits of despair, misplacing their burgeoning faith in Something for a faith in Nothing that will last forever.
According to Prata, here’s the progression:
We professed faith in Jesus with our mouths but not our heart
We had no visible fruit in our lives
We failed to walk closely with Jesus by procrastinating in discipleship, Bible study, prayer, and/or worship, furthering the distance between ourselves and Jesus
Or we faithfully attended church and Bible study but due to hardened hearts we always were learning but never able to come to knowledge of the truth
We listened to and promoted dangerous heresies which we began to believe more and more
And then, one day we slid right down the proverbial slippery slope into apostasy and atheism
Does this progression remotely describe your journey from Evangelical Christianity to atheism/agnosticism or even liberal Christianity or a different religion altogether? I know it doesn’t mine, not even close. and I suspect it doesn’t describe your journey either. You see, for Prata’s denunciation of us to work, she must paint us as shallow, nominal Christians, not people who were committed, devoted followers of Jesus. She also must paint us as ignorant, poorly taught believers; anything but accepting that we were just as much in love with Jesus as she is; that we were knowledgeable of the teachings of the Bible, just as she is; that we lived our lives in holiness, just as she does.
Regardless of her motivations, Prata is being dishonest with her portrayal of Evangelicals-turned-atheists. If she wants atheists to embrace her peculiar version of Christianity, the first thing she must do is be honest. As long as she deliberately portrays former believers in a dishonest light, it is fair for us to question her moral character. When Prata says she is a Christian, I believe her. I always initially take people at face value. If you say you worship Jesus, I believe you. Who am I to question how people self-identify? I just wish the Elizabeth Pratas of the world would do the same for us non-believers. I am sure she will argue that the Bible says _________! As if that somehow absolves her of how she falsely portrays people different from her. If the goal is honest discourse, then the least any of us can do is listen to those we disagree with and allow them to control their own storyline. If an ancient religious text stands in the way of you being a decent human being, then perhaps it is time to chuck the Bible.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Local Christian churches are full of those who claim to be Christians but are not. The same goes for churches that claim to be Christian but are not. Many like to follow the man (preacher) & hold him up as an idol.
How could Richard possibly know this? Is he God? Shouldn’t who is and isn’t a Christian be left up to God? Richard, of course, KNOWS that he is a Christian; that his church is a True Christian church, so he uses his personal experiences and his church as the standard by which he judges others. 2 Corinthians 10:12 says: “or we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.” It’s a bad idea to use ourselves as the standard by which we judge others.
You can use the excuse all day this is why you left this church, that or Christianity. If you never possessed the Holy Spirit you never were a Christian in the first place. There is no way Bruce was ever a Christian but if it’s true he was a pastor then he filled those typical fake Christian churches.
Welp, Richard, my boy, I did possess the Holy Ghost. My life gave evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. The arc of my life was towards holiness. I was a true-blue devoted follower of Jesus. That Richard can’t square my present life with my past is his problem, not mine. It is up to Richard to provide evidence for his claims. Talk to my wife and children. Talk to those who called me preacher. Talk to my colleagues in the ministry. I double-dog dare you to find one person who, at the time, said, I wasn’t a Christian.
If Richard is a Christian — and I don’t doubt that he is — so was I. When someone tells me that he is a Christian, I accept his self-identification at face value. I wish zealots such a Richard would do the same. Of course, he won’t. The testimonies of people such as myself are kryptonite to beliefs. Thus, he must, despite evidence to the contrary, maintain I never was a Christian.
He claims to have read the bible numerous times which says nothing. You can read the bible all you want but if you don’t have the Holy Spirit to take you through the Living Word of God then the mysteries will never be revealed and it will just be foolish to you.
Except it wasn’t, and the Holy Spirit did guide me through the Bible as I read it numerous times and preached 4,000 sermons. I spent, on average, 20 hours a week, reading and studying the Bible over the course of twenty-five years in the ministry. Does Richard really expect anyone to believe that I was a fraud; a liar; a deceiver; a false prophet? Even God is shaking his head. 🙂
Most of you have hardened your hearts & God has come in turned you over to that, nothing odd about that, your futures are sealed.
Richard now turns his judgment toward the readers of this blog, not knowing that many of them are Christians. In his addled mind, we are reprobates; people who have hardened hearts; people who cannot be saved (according to Romans 1 and 2).
It is hard not to conclude that Richard is a judgmental prick.
It is this that burns you up inside.
What burns me up inside is hot food. Evidently, Richard has psychic abilities he uses to see inside of us. Amazing, right?
I couldn’t imagine The feeling knowing God & His Holy Spirit abandoned me, of course you’d have to have known Him first to feel that.
So which is it? Did I know God and the Holy Spirit, or didn’t I? Come on, Richard, get it right!
Even though most of you never really have you do feel the guilt of where you are going, this is plainly written in your remarks.
Again, Richard changes his mind. This time, we don’t feel the hunka, hunka, hunka burning love of the Holy Ghost on our innards, but we do feel guilty about “where we are going.” Chicago? Detroit? New York? LA? London?
The only guilt I feel is the over past harm I caused as an Evangelical pastor, husband, and father.
I feel for you but then again I don’t, you clearly denied Him & continue to do so. It honestly sucks to be you
Richard, be honest. You don’t give a shit about me or the readers of this blog. If you did, you would have behaved differently. Instead, you are just the latest example of a judgmental Evangelical who only cares about preaching AT people. Good job. What, exactly, do you think you accomplished for the kingdom of God?
I would love to compare lives with you. I have been married for forty-five years. We have six adult children, thirteen grandchildren, and two cats. While it is true that I am quite sick and on the short side of life, I am blessed beyond measure, grateful for all that I have. And the Reds have won four straight! Woo! Hoo!
What sucks is people like you; people who have lost all sense of decency, kindness, and respect for others. You said your piece, Richard. I am sure God is pleased by how you represented him.
BTW, I haven’t denied God. What I have done is reject the insufficient evidence presented for his existence. If you have better evidence, Richard, please provide it. Maybe you will be the one to win me to Jesus. Oh wait, you can’t. You have already determined I am a reprobate; a man headed for Hell, without recourse. You better hope you are not wrong. Imagine what God will say to you come judgment day?
Saved by Reason,
Richard’s response to this post:
Wouldn’t expect anything less for a response to attempt to justify yourself as an atheist & what you claim as a humanist – LOL. I just find your love affair for the IFB very humorous as I stumbled onto to your blog that attempts to discredit it. Most interesting were the comments of poor followers that agreed with you all beaten down and claimed to have PTSD. LOL rebellion. Funny how anything fundamental scares people. How dare people in 2023 take the Word of God literally when we should be re-creating God in our own image. I mean after all, Hollywood, the state & government say marriage between a man and a man is good & legal, after all they claim now up to 150 genders. How dare the church say women shouldn’t wear them hot britches and spray on tops, I mean it’s up to them men not to be tempted of lust. I applaud those IFB’s that do this and turns off those that disagree. Obviously you have a refuge those that are hurt because no means no. It’s only humanistic to build an army of like minded antichrists & atheists to make you feel better. If them queer suspenders do it for you then be my guest.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the weekend, I received the following email from Marlene Strader.
Strader read all of two posts: Songs of Sacrilege: Need a Favor by Jelly Roll and Why I Hate Jesus before contacting me. She looked at the Why? page, but evidently didn’t have the finger strength necessary to click on any of the listed posts. So, her attack on my character is fueled by one Songs of Sacrilege post and a polemical post about why I hate Jesus — a post often misunderstood by Christians who lack comprehensive reading skills.
Here’s what Strader sent me:
Why all the hate? Hate is what’s wrong with the world. People selfishly worshiping themselves, their politics, and their own ideologies. So you’re an atheist? So you claim your own moral authority? Fine. What do you care what others believe if you believe in nothing? So what if you think they are wrong? You just come off like the hypocrites you despise. Full of hate, bitterness, and unforgiveness.
What hate, exactly, is Strader talking about? Maybe she confuses critique and challenge with hate. I don’t hate anyone. Life is too short to be hating people. I do, however, hate certain political, religious, and social beliefs. I make no apology for doing so. When beliefs cause harm — both psychological and physical — their proponents should expect pushback.
Yes, I am an atheist. Yes, I am my own moral authority, as are Christians and other religious people. Each of us decides what moral and ethical standard by which we will govern our lives.
Strader thinks I believe in “nothing.” Of course, I have all sorts of beliefs about everything from God and the designated hitter to socialism and which sex position I prefer. If Strader wants to know what I believe on any given subject, all she has to do is ask.
Had Strader bothered to read any of my autobiographical writing, she would have learned that I don’t care one whit about what people believe as long as said beliefs don’t materially affect me and my family. Unfortunately, Evangelicals, conservative Catholics, and Mormons are determined to turn the United States into a theocratic state; one where Jesus rules supreme and the Bible is the law of the land. History tells us that when church and state are one, blood is shed, people die, and freedoms are lost. So, as long as Christians try to turn America into a “Christian country,” I plan to be on the front lines pushing back. As long as Christians try to criminalize abortion, ban birth control, demonize LGBTQ people, ban books, force public schools to teach creationism as science, demand teachers daily lead students in Bible reading and prayer, and promote abstinence-only sex education, you can count on me to publicly and vocally challenge their anti-democratic ideologies.
I have thirteen grandchildren, and all but two of them attend local public schools. Their futures matter to me, as do the futures of my six children and their spouses.
Strader attacks my character, yet she provides no evidence for her accusations. None. Anyone who reads more than a few posts on this site knows that I am not “full of hate, bitterness, and unforgiveness.” Strader has built a strawman of the Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser in her mind. In doing so she has disobeyed God. Proverbs 18:13 says: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude.
A minute or so after I received Strader’s email, I received another message, this time from a Southern Baptist pastor:
From one evangelical pastor to one previous evangelical pastor, I stumbled on your page, and I think you are witty and funny. I thought a kind, humorous word might be a small counterbalance to all the irritating things you have received from evangelicals. Rather than “God bless you,” I’ll just wish you good luck. LOL. Take care, my friend:)
I will leave it to readers to decide which commenter best describes me.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the weekend, A Christian man by the name of John sent me the following email. My response is indented and italicized. All spelling and grammar in the original.
After reading about your “mind reading ability” and your becoming a non-believer I wonder what changed you.
I have no idea what John is talking about when it comes to “mind reading ability.” I was unable to find a log reference for John’s IP address — an oddity, to be sure — so I don’t know what he read on this site. I suspect he didn’t read any of my autobiographical writing. Had John shown a bit of curiosity, he would have found the WHY? page. The posts listed on this page would have answered most, if not all, of John’s questions about “what changed me.”
I knew Father Jack Baker for years and I have zero doubt he was wrongfully convicted by an extremely woke, political attorney general.
Joseph “Jack” Baker is a Roman Catholic priest who was convicted last year on sexual assault charges and sentenced to 4-15 years in prison. He was convicted by a jury of his peers. Were they all “woke?” Does John really expect anyone to believe that Baker is innocent; that he was convicted because a “woke” attorney general was out to get him? Baker was convicted of sexually assaulting a child under the age of thirteen. In other words, he is a pedophile.
Baker actually got off easy. As I wrote at the time: “Baker was given a lighter sentence because of all the “good” things he did as a pastor. Does anyone seriously think that this was the only time that Baker took advantage of a church minor? I mean, really? As has been shown in countless Black Collar Crime stories, judges often give offending clergy what I call the “preacher’s discount,” sentencing them to lighter sentences than non-clerics receive. Lost on judges is the fact that these men abused the trust their victims had in them, causing untold physical and psychological harm. They should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.”
John says he knows Baker. Unfortunately, not well enough to know that he was a child molester. None of us knows people as well as we think we do; even our spouses, children, and best friends. We all have secrets. Baker’s “secret” landed him in prison.
The bible warns in the end times even the elect will be deceived. I wish no contact with you except to plead that you look into the world-wide drive toward woke and the perversion of over 2,000 years of Christian beliefs.
The Bible does not say that in the end times the “elect” will be deceived. Matthew 24:24 says: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Note that it says, “if it were possible, they — the false Christs and false prophets — shall deceive the very elect.” The elect are those chosen IN Christ from before the foundation of the world. The elect will, without fail and at an appointed time, be saved, and they will persevere until the end. The elect might be deceived for a time, but they will always return to the faith. John might want to read the Bible again to see what it actually says about election and the elect.
In John’s mind, wokeness — which I doubt he could define — is some sort of evil that is destroying the world. Evidently, John is anti-progress. He likely pines for the good old days when Christianity ruled the roost; a time when women were keepers of the home; abortion was illegal; Blacks knew their place; LGBTQ people were still in their closets; teachers led public school students in daily Bible readings and prayers. John can’t stand equality, freedom, and justice for everyone. John doesn’t say exactly what he believes, but since I can read minds, I’m confident that what I have written here is correct.
I know two communist party members that are celebrating the “useful idiots” that now promote much of what is in our daily headlines.
John is one of those conspiracy theorists who believes that people in seats of powers are working towards turning the United States into a communist state. This, of course, is untrue. That two unnamed communists says otherwise means what, exactly? Nothing.
Perhaps John thinks socialism and communism are one and the same. They are not. The United States has always had socialist tendencies. John even benefits from socialist programs and laws. It is true socialism is making a comeback in the United States. I, for one, applaud this move towards a better future. Capitalism is a broken system. What rises out of its ashes remains to be seen.
I found God years ago, particularly living through four children dying in my hands. I know where they are and I know you have the option to learn why.
I have no idea what the backstory is about John “living through four children dying in his hands.” Certainly, the death of any child is tragic. That said, John does not know where these dead children are today. By faith, he believes they are in Heaven, but he has no evidence for this claim. None. All the evidence says that dead people stay dead, either buried in the ground or turned into ashes. Christians claim there is an afterlife, but the only evidence they provide for their claims are Bible verses. That’s it. Believing there is life after death in Heaven or Hell requires faith, a faith I do not have.
Further, historically, the Christian church has taught that people who die remain in the grave until the general resurrection of the dead. No one is currently physically in Heaven or Hell. All the Heaven and Hell nonsense spouted by primarily Evangelical preachers is feel-good nonsense meant to soothe the feelings of those who have lost loved ones. Heaven and Hell await, but not today.
John seems to think he can teach me a thing or two about these things. I await his lesson. 🙂
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.
One need only to study world religions to understand that religion is a powerful force in our world — for good and evil. Marx rightly compared religion to opium — a powerful narcotic used to relieve pain, both physically and psychologically. Religion, in all its forms, is used by humans to find purpose, meaning, peace, and happiness. Ultimately, people worship deities because doing so benefits them in some way or another. A good way to look at religion is from an economic perspective. Every religion has a cost attached to it. Sometimes those costs are clear: time, money, and commitment. Other times, religion extracts psychological or emotional costs. Some religions, such as Evangelical Christianity, Mormonism, and Jehovah’s Witnesses, require an abandonment of self and total commitment to God and the church. I spent fifty years in the Evangelical church. Twenty-five of those years were spent pastoring churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. I can’t even begin to calculate the cost of my devotion to the Evangelical Jesus. Much of my time and money was spent in devotion to a deity whom I believed was the one true God, the creator and ruler over all. I abandoned self as I “followed the Lamb of God.” I willingly sacrificed my marriage and family, living in poverty and doing without for my God’s sake. Why would anyone live as I did?
Serving Jesus was costly, but the benefits far outweighed the costs — or so I thought at the time, anyway. Through my religious beliefs, experiences, and practices, I found happiness, peace, and meaning. I had the privilege of preaching the gospel and teaching others the “truths” of the Christian Bible. I was loved and respected, and there never was a day when I didn’t feel God’s presence in my life. Oh, sometimes it seemed God was distant, but more often than not, the Christian deity was an ever-present reality.
It matters not whether Christianity is true; that its core beliefs are rational and reasonable. All that mattered, as a Christian, is that I thought these beliefs were true. Countless people believe all sorts of things that are untrue, but they believe them to be true, so in their minds, they are. While believing in the Christian God extracted from me a high cost, one I am paying to this day, for most of my life I believed the benefits of religious faith outweighed its costs.
Marx thought religion gave people false happiness. That said, he never underestimated its power, its ability to meet the deep needs of the human psyche. Atheists often wrongly believe that the solution to the ills of the world is for people to abandon their superstitions and embrace rationality rooted in reason, science, and intellectual inquiry. What atheists forget is that what humans want more than anything else is happiness. Until rationalists, freethinkers, and humanists show that their godless way of life leads to purpose, meaning, and happiness, we can’t expect religious people to buy what we are selling. We know that people don’t need to toke religious crack to feel happy and fulfilled, but we will never argue people into understanding this. Like it or not, feelings play a big part in the human experience. Life is short, and then we die. Religion offers a powerful drug that lessens the pain of that reality. We secularists must offer the same if we expect to neuter the effects of religion on our world.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Not-a-Real-Doctor David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, has returned to his previous ways, writing posts about me and using my writing without proper attribution. His latest post titled, The Bible IS What it Claims to Be — 2 is his latest attempt to smear my character. Before I address what Thiessen wrote, I want to point out Thiessen’s post title; particularly his use of the word IS in ALL CAPS. Every time Thiessen does this, I think of this:
YES, IT IS! YES, IT IS! YES, IT IS! All caps is how people shout digitally, hoping to make a point. Thiessen has spent his entire life in Christian Fundamentalism; a movement where shouting and pulpit pounding is used to say “BLESS GOD, I AM ABSOLUTELY, 100% RIGHT! CAN I GET AN A-M-E-N? So when Thiessen uses ALL CAPS, he’s just screaming, with index fingers in each ear, I’M RIGHT!
To be frank, who is Bruce anyways? What has he accomplished that anyone, including unbelievers, should listen to what he says? he quit on just about everything in his life except his marriage and what does a quitter have to offer anyone?
When Simone Biles quit on her Olympic team you should have read the comments under every article about her. They were not nice and most dismissed her and her opinion, etc. Quitters do not get the brass ring nor do they get any influence.
The moment former Christians quit the faith, they lose access to the truth and help from the only person who can get them to the truth and explain it correctly to them Also, when people quit the faith, they are not moving from an inferior god to a superior one.
Nor are they moving to a better religious faith that actually stops people from committing crimes or sinning, and they are not moving to a greater moral code. What they have done is moved from a faith that has all of those elements and moved to NOTHING.
….
We do not care what the owner of that website says nor do we care what any atheist or unbeliever says. They have nothing to offer anyone because they either reject something and stay in nothing or moved from something to nothing.
They are not correct and never will be. Plus, they have no hidden information that shows that God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Bible, the Christian faith, and so on is a hoax. They have nothing.
Thiessen “frankly” asks, “Who is Bruce, anyways?” Who I am can easily be ascertained by reading my autobiographical writing. Thiessen’s question is rhetorical. What he is really saying is that Bruce Gerencser is a nobody. Why would anyone listen to a “nobody”? I am sixty-six years old, yet he dismisses my entire life. Why? Well, in Thiessen’s mind, I am a “quitter.” I have “quit” everything in my life, except my marriage. This is rich coming from a man who is no longer a pastor; a man who divorced or left his wife; a man who abandoned his baby. Talk about a quitter. Of course, I would never disparagingly call him a quitter. Shit happens. Things change. Jobs, ministries, and marriages come and go.
Thiessen, of course, knows these things. Why he beats the “quitter” drum over and over and over again is beyond me. I have tried through this blog to give an honest account of my life. Thiessen has made no attempt to do the same. He hides in a foreign country, using several aliases over the years. His readers, all ten of them, know little to nothing about him. He parades around proud as a peacock as a “Dr.” yet refuses to say where he earned his degree or make his doctoral thesis available to the public. He is free, of course, to do these things, but personal attacks on me and my honest telling of my life carry no weight. I really wish he would stop with the quitter” schtick. He won’t because he knows it bothers me. Color me human, but I don’t like it when people lie about me.
Thiessen uses the horrible abuse Simon Biles received after dropping out of the Olympics as justification for attacking my character. As a quitter, I shouldn’t expect to be treated nicely by others. According to Thiessen, quitters such as Simon Biles and I shouldn’t have any influence over others, nor should we get the brass ring — whatever the Hell that means. In other words, leaving Christianity undoes everything I have done in my life. Nothing I do going forward will have meaning and value. Since Thiessen delusionally thinks his words = God’s words, all I can say is this: Derrick Thiessen worships a horrible God.
According to Thiessen, on the last Sunday of November in 2008 — almost fifteen years ago — every bit of knowledge and truth in my brain disappeared. From that day forward, I could no longer know and understand “truth.” Why? Because all “truth” comes from Jesus, an uneducated traveling preacher who died 2,000 years ago. It is Jesus alone who can explain truth to us.
Thiessen says he doesn’t care what I say, yet he has written almost one hundred posts about me or in response to something I have written. I’d say based on this fact that Thiessen has an unhealthy obsession with me. I’ve repeatedly offered to send him my Stripper Santa Pole Dancing® photo, but so far he refuses to provide me with his mailing address. His loss. 🙂
Thiessen ends his harangue about me with a number of personal attacks, all meant to belittle and demean me.
Perhaps Thiessen has forgotten that Jesus told him how to treat the atheist Bruce Gerencser and others like him:
But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. (Luke 6:27-38)
Jesus said it, Derrick, I didn’t.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, I followed and participated in a Facebook forum discussion about the move by Xperience Church (please see “We Accept Anyone No Matter What,” Local Evangelical Says) to an anchor store at the Northtowne Mall in Defiance, Ohio. The discussion was lively, to say the least. One common theme throughout the discussion was the need for Evangelical Christians to quote the Bible, either by itself or as proof for their assertions. This led, of course, to Evangelicals arguing amongst themselves about what this or that verse “really” meant. Just another day on Facebook, right?
Evangelicals enter public forums with several presuppositions:
The Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God
The Bible is THE book above all other books
Every word in the Bible is true
The Bible is NEVER wrong
Doubting the Bible’s truthfulness is sin
The words attributed to Jesus in the gospels were actually spoken by him
The Bible presents a blueprint, manual, guideline for living
Armed with these “truths” about the Bible, Evangelicals wage war against anyone and everyone who disagrees with them. I am sure virtually every non-Evangelical reader of this blog has had a social media interaction with an Evangelical, and more likely than not, the discussion included the believer quoting the Bible. During the discussion about Xperience Church, one Evangelical took to preaching, complete with quoted Bible verses. When she said she was just engaging in friendly discussion, I replied, no, you are preaching. She responded, I only quoted one passage of Scripture. I replied, actually you quoted five Bible verses. She retorted, well most of them were paraphrases. While that was indeed true, for someone like me, it was easy to see that she was referencing specific Bible verses. In other words, she was preaching.
Evangelicals are encouraged to read, study, and memorize the Bible. Through Sunday services and various weekly meetings, Evangelical minds quickly become saturated with Bible verses. This saturation is so deep that Evangelicals often parrot Bible quotations without even knowing it. Taught that the Bible is the divine answer book for life, Evangelicals will often offer up this or that passage of Scriptures as THE answer to whatever is being discussed. No issue is beyond proof-texting. Sadly, Evangelicals think that by posting a “thus saith the Lord,” they are engaging in discussion, when in fact, they are little more than a parrot at the local pet store who repeats a handful of learned phrases.
Most Evangelicals fail to question or challenge the presuppositions their proof-texts are based upon. To quote my favorite Bible character, Lucifer, “Yea hath God said?” Is the Bible really the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God? Is the Bible really THE book above all other books? How can you be certain the Bible is NEVER wrong? How can you be certain the words attributed to Jesus are actually his? It is not enough to believe the Bible is a God-given supernatural book. Beliefs are not the same as facts or evidence. “Well, I believe these things by faith,” Evangelicals say. Fine, but why should I or anyone else accept what you are saying is true? If you cannot show that the Bible is what you say it is, why should any of us listen to a word you have to say? Personally, I am not willing to faith-it. I want facts, evidence, truth. Surely, Evangelicals “should” want the same.
I have been accused of being a Bart Ehrman fanboy. Maybe I am, or maybe, just maybe, his books are the single best way to disabuse Evangelicals of their beliefs about the Bible. If I can get an Evangelical to honestly and openly read several of Dr. Ehrman’s books, I know that it is likely that their sincerely-held beliefs about the Bible will crumble and crash to the ground. If Evangelicals truly seek “truth,” then they must be willing to lose their faith; or at the very least radically change their beliefs.
The Bible is not what Evangelicals claim it is. Educated Evangelical preachers know this, yet on Sundays they play make-believe, leading congregants to think that the Bible is the very words of God/Jesus. These preachers know this is a lie, but their identity and economic wellbeing are tied up in perpetuating this untruth Sunday after Sunday. They must not tell congregants the truth lest they find out the emperor has no clothes. Evangelical preachers know that if their charges question the purity and veracity of the Holy Bible, why, what’s next? Questions are the slippery slope that leads to liberalism and apostasy. For these preachers, better to lie than to cause people to lose their faith.
I was also troubled by your suggestion that I not share my beliefs with anyone. You told me my beliefs could cause others to lose their faith! Is the Christian faith so tenuous that one man can cause others to lose their faith? Surely, the Holy Spirit is far more powerful than Bruce (even if I am Bruce Almighty).
I am aware of the fact that my apostasy has troubled some people. If Bruce can walk away from the faith…how can any of us stand? I have no answer for this line of thinking. I am but one man . . . shall I live in denial of what I believe, of what I know to be true? Shall I say nothing when I am asked about the hope that lies within me? Christians are implored to share their faith at all times. Are agnostics and atheists not allowed to have the same freedom?
My ex-friend viewed my story as a threat to the faith of others. To protect them, he asked me to keep quiet about my loss of faith. In other words, he asked me to lie or deceive people. In his mind, protecting the flock was far more important than “truth.” So it is with the nature and history of the Bible. Evangelical preachers, out of fear of burning everything to the ground, shelter their congregants from “truth.” Better for them to go to Heaven blissfully unaware of the truth about the Bible than to risk them turning into Bruce Gerencser. In their minds, the end (Heaven) justifies the means.
Sadly, most Evangelical preachers act like Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men. Remember the dialog between Nicholson and Tom Cruise? Nicholson said, “you can’t handle the truth!” Is this not what Evangelical pastors say when they withhold the truth about the Bible from their congregations? Perhaps it is time for full disclosure, letting the chips fall where they may. Surely, the Christian God is able to protect his sheep from the wiles of an ex-Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist or a book-writing professor. If he can’t, then perhaps it is time to question whether God is the all-powerful, all-knowing deity millions of American Evangelicals say he is. Perhaps, in the end, this God is just a character in a work of fiction.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Evangelicals believe the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God. It’s not A BOOK, it is THE BOOK, a book above all others. All other books, except the Bible, are the words of fallible men. The Bible, on the other hand, is the WORD OF GOD. Written by men as they were moved (led/directed) by the Holy Ghost, (2 Peter 1:21) every word of the Bible is true. Evangelicals confidently (and arrogantly) believe that when they quote the Bible they are quoting the very words of God. (2 Timothy 3:16) Thus saith the Lord, right? I have engaged countless Evangelicals on this blog over the past ten years. More than a few of them have told me, “Bruce, your argument is with God, not me! I just told you what God said!” In the minds of Evangelicals, quoting the Bible to me (or readers of this blog) is akin to God speaking directly to me. God said it, end of discussion.
Evangelicals believe that the Bible gives them everything they need pertaining to life and godliness. (2 Peter 1:3) The Bible, then, is a roadmap, a divine blueprint for life. The truths of the Bible are unchanging and eternal, relevant and true for every generation. Just as Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever, so is the Bible. (Hebrews 13:8) Thinking this way, of course, forces Evangelicals to defend all sorts of antiquated, immoral beliefs. If God said it, that settles it, right? And therein is the problem. If the Bible is “God speaking” then we humans better pay attention. However, if the Bible is the words of men, then we are free to accept or reject what is written. If the Bible is just a bunch of contradictory books written by mostly unknown ancient writers, it’s just bad literature. It’s time for a rewrite or perhaps a new Bible altogether. I would be glad to help write a new one. God saith to Evangelicals, “don’t be judgmental pricks and assholes. 🙂
Of course, Evangelicals are never going to admit that the Bible is anything but the timeless, precious words of God. Since that’s the case, I try to engage Evangelicals within the pages of the Bible; to challenge their interpretations; to call into question their application of the Bible.
Take the subject “peace.” The Bible says:
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. (John 16:33)
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. . . Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. (John 14:1,27)
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4:6,7)
Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord be with you all. (2 Thessalonians 3:16)
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. (Colossians 3:15)
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (Hebrews 12:14)
Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them. (Psalm 119:165)
These verses, and others, explicitly teach that Evangelicals should be the most peaceful people on the planet. Psalm 34:14 says the followers of Jesus should “seek peace and pursue it.” If Jesus is the “peace” that passes all understanding; if the Holy Ghost lives inside of every Evangelical, giving them peace and comfort no matter what comes their way, then why are so many Evangelicals anything but calm, cool, and collected? Eighty-one percent of white voting Evangelicals voted for Donald Trump. Are they a peaceful lot? Picture January 6th, if you need your memory refreshed. Ponder, for a moment, the lives of Evangelical culture warriors, and how they rage against the “world.” Do they strike you as people who have “peace that passes all understanding?” Everywhere I look, I see hateful, angry Evangelicals. Evidently, they don’t love God’s law. If Evangelicals loved the law of God, Psalm 119:165 says that they would have peace and NOTHING would offend them. Tell me, do Evangelicals seem “offended” by virtually e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g these days? What happened to the peace of God which is to rule and reign in their hearts?
Nineteen years ago, Polly’s sister was tragically killed in a motorcycle accident. (Please see If One Soul Gets Saved It’s Worth It All.) Our family gathered at the hospital, hoping to find out about her husband, who survived the crash. I couldn’t help but notice the family patriarch (please see The Family Patriarch is Dead: My Life With James Dennis) pacing back and forth, praying and quoting Bible verses. In any other setting, such behavior might land you in the psych ward. This man was a well-known Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preacher, with, at the time, 40 years in the ministry. I was a Christian, at the time — having just left the ministry — and I remember thinking how odd his behavior seemed. What happened to God’s peace? What happened to nothing happening apart from God’s perfect, sovereign will? Shouldn’t the family patriarch, along with every Christian in that room, accept that Kathy’s death was all part of God’s wonderful plan for her life? After all, as a child, she asked Jesus to save her. She was now in Heaven, praising Jesus for his love, mercy, and grace. Shouldn’t this “fact” have given all of us “peace”?
I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years. I watched scores of Christians suffer and die. I watched others bear the death of loved ones, loss of livelihood, divorce, and numerous other tragedies. I can’t remember anyone who had “peace” like the Bible talks about. Instead, I saw a range of emotions, normal human expressions of pain, loss, and grief. Were these people bad Christians? Of course not. They were human. And if there’s one thing I know for certain, it is this: when life turns to shit and the walls crumble and collapse, atheists and Evangelicals alike respond the same way. The difference being, of course, that Evangelicals, thanks to their commitment to the Bible, are expected to rise above the struggles of life and have “peace.” That they don’t is not a reflection on them as much as it is on their beliefs.
Bruce, what’s your point? Damn, do I always have to have a point? 🙂 Yes, I have point. Evangelicals often come off as people who think they are above the fray; people who, thanks to Jesus, are immune to the struggles faced by the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world. When “life” dumps a load of shit on their doorstep, Evangelicals are expected to smile and claim VICTORY IN J-E-S-U-S! However, that’s not what we see. Instead, we observe people who are just like the rest of us. And THAT’S my point. The Bible says in Galatians 5:22,23, that the fruit (evidence) of the Holy Spirit (who purportedly lives inside every Christian) is (present tense) love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. Based on the inviolate Word of God just quoted, how many Christians do you know who have the fruit of the Spirit? That’s a rhetorical question. The answer is NONE. Certainly, the fruit of the Spirit is desirable for believers and unbelievers alike. However, all of us are feeble, frail human beings. Whether we are atheist, agnostic, pagan, Satanist, Buddhist, Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Evangelical, or liberal Christian, it matters not. All of us are one and the same. Thoughtful humanists understand this. It is our shared humanity that binds us together. While “peace” is a desirable behavior, at least for me anyway, none of us should feel we have failed when life overwhelms us like a tsunami and we lose our shit.
Make sense? I hope so. Please share your sage advice and thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
