Why is it that so many Evangelicals have no desire to be curious? Yes, I know many are, so don’t get your panties in a bunch if you are a curiouser-than-a-cat Evangelical. I frequently get emails or blog comments from Evangelical Christians wanting to “help” me find my way back to Jesus. Such people are certain that they possess the requisite knowledge and skill necessary to reclaim the famous Evangelical-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser for Jesus. They are sure that if they just befriend me, quote the right Bible verses, soothe my hurts, or understand my pain, I will fall on my knees and call on the name of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
I was in the Christian church for fifty years. I was a pastor for twenty-five of those years. I have a Bible college education. Surely they understand that I am not an atheist out of ignorance, right? Of course not, and here is where their lack of curiosity gets them in trouble. They often don’t know anything about me or this blog. Why? Because they did a Google/Bing/Yahoo search for _________________ and their search brought them to a single blog post of mine. They read that one post and immediately decide that I am a poor wayfaring waif in need of their peculiar brand of God/Jesus/Christianity.
When I get comments such as these, I go to the logs and see what pages they read. Usually, they have read only the page their search brought them to. Their lack of curiosity (or laziness) is astounding, and leads them to make wild judgments about me, and come to rash, ill-informed conclusions. If these people would just read the About page, the WHY? page, or the Dear Evangelical page, they would be better informed about me and this blog. But they don’t. Why is that?
I suspect part of the reason Evangelicals are not, in general, known for their curiosity is that they are 100% certain they are absolutely right. In their minds, they worship the one, true God and this God lives inside of them in the person of the Holy Spirit. This God walks with them, talks with them, and tell them that they are his own (from the hymn In the Garden). They have an inerrant, infallible supernatural book given to them by this supernatural God. This book contains all the answers about life that they will ever need.
When you are filled with certainty, there is no need to think, reason, investigate, or doubt. When the man upstairs is on your team, no need to consider any other team. Why be a lowly Reds fan when you can be a Yankees fan? When your church has declared that Moose Tracks ice cream is the one true ice cream, no need to try any other ice cream.
Simply put, there’s no need to know anything else when you already know all you need to know. God said it, I believe it and that settles it for me, the Christian ditty goes. One true God, one true religious text, one way of salvation. The earth is 6,027 years old, created in six literal 24-hour days. The Bible gives the blueprint for having a Christ-honoring family, a happy marriage, obedient kids, and awesome missionary position sex — but only to try to catch up with the Duggars. When the answer to every question is “God” or “the Bible says,” it’s not surprising to find that Evangelicals are not, by nature, curious.
The good news is that more and more Evangelicals are discovering the curiosity that lies dormant beneath the surface of their lives. Once they make this discovery, they are on their way out of the closed-mindedness and senses-dulling prison of Evangelicalism. They will find out that science can and does explain the world they live in. Science doesn’t have all the answers, but it is asking the right questions.
Still want/need to believe in a transcendent deity or some sort of spirituality? Once free of the Heaven/Hell, saved/lost, in/out, good/bad paradigm of Evangelicalism, people are free to wander at will. When the fear of Hell and judgment is gone, they are free to experience those things that are meaningful to them. Once the question is no longer “Will you go to heaven when you die?” the journey, rather than the destination, becomes what matters.
Curiosity may kill the cat, but trust me Evangelicals, it won’t kill you.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
To hear many Evangelical preachers tell it, salvation is a transaction between God and humankind. Humankind is wicked, vile, and sinful, unable to do good and headed for eternity in the Lake of Fire. God, in his infinite wisdom, made a way for us to have our sins forgiven. Once we avail ourselves to this super-duper sin-erasing way, we have a ticket to Heaven that cannot be canceled. The moment we pray to Jesus and ask him to forgive us of our sins and come into our lives, one of Heaven’s angels puts a door hanger on a room in the Father’s House that says RESERVED.
Countless American Christians have prayed the sinner’s prayer and are certain that when they die, they will wake up in Heaven. They have successfully pulled the handle on God’s Salvation Dispensing Machine® and down the chute came a Fire Insurance policy that guarantees payment upon death. It is the only insurance that pays off to you AFTER you die.
Eternal security, also known as once-saved-always-saved, is a central tenet of many an Evangelical preacher’s soteriology. Once in the family, you can never leave the family. God’s family is like the mob, once you are in, you are in for life. What better thing to offer sinners than a guaranteed home in Heaven that costs them nothing more than a few heartfelt words?
Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe You died for my sins and rose from the dead. I turn from my sins and invite You to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You as my Lord and Savior. In Your Name. Amen
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Arminians — those who believe you can lose your salvation — object to the doctrine of eternal security. According to their theology, Christians can and do lose their salvation. Good works are necessary to maintain one’s salvation. Calvinists also object to the doctrine of eternal security. They emphatically believe that a person must persevere, hold on until death. And if they don’t, this is proof that they were never really Christians.
Based on what I have written above, this means that someone such as myself, a reprobate, a denier of God and his offer of salvation, a man who once was saved, who once followed Jesus is either:
Still saved because once I was saved, I can never lose that salvation
Unsaved because I lost the salvation I once had
Never was saved
Over the years I have had numerous Christians tell me that one of these three statements is an accurate description of my present state. All of them are quite certain that they are 100% right about my standing with God and where I will end up when I die.
Every Christian sect would agree that salvation and eternal destiny are THE most important issues every person must decide. Amos 4:12 says, PREPARE to meet thy God. Surely then, God has made the whole salvation thing crystal clear, right? Nope.
Take the aforementioned verses in Romans 10:9,10, 13. It seems clear that belief = salvation = eternity in Heaven. John 10:28 says:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
These are the verses on which once-saved-always-saved believers hang their hats. Of course, Arminians and Calvinists both have arguments and rebuttals to the once-saved-always-saved interpretations. I once heard an Arminian preacher explain John 10:28 this way:
No man can pluck you out of God’s hand but you can jump out by yourself.
The point I am trying to make is that the whole notion of Christian salvation is hopelessly convoluted, complex, and contradictory. Right now, Evangelical preachers reading this post are:
They are certain that THEIR soteriology, THEIR plan of salvation, is the right one. As I have stated numerous times, the Bible teaches multiple plans of salvation, with each plan contradicted by other Bible verses. Let me illustrate this. We already know what the once–saved-always-saved preacher says. Are there verses that contradict his salvation plan?
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end;
This passage seems to be quite clear. A brother (brethren) can have an evil heart of unbelief and walk away from God. He will only have salvation and eternal life if he is steadfast to the end.
Can a person, for a time, fall away, and then come back to Jesus? Is it possible for someone such as I to repent of my sin, renounce my atheism, and return to following Jesus? Countless Evangelical preachers would say, YES! It’s never too late. As long as you are a living, breathing soul, you can be saved.
But wait a minute!
Doesn’t Romans 1 and 2 talk about people who can’t be saved, people who have been given by God over to a reprobate mind? Isn’t it too late for them? And what about the Jews? John 12:37-40 says:
But though he (Jesus) had done so many miracles before them (the Jews), yet they believed not on him: That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
God blinded the eyes and hardened the hearts of the Jews so they would not understand and be converted. In other words, these Jews couldn’t be saved. Does this no-salvation-for-you only apply to Jews alive during the days Jesus walked the streets of Galilee and Jerusalem? Evangelicals argue endlessly over the Jews and whether they can be saved or even need to be saved.
Now, if I can, let me land this plane. Consider a few passages from the Book of Hebrews.
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
As a Christian, I was once enlightened and I tasted of the heavenly gift. I was made a partaker of the Holy Ghost, tasted the good word of God and the powers of the world to come. I am now an atheist and I have repudiated all that I once said I believed. According to Hebrews 6:4-6, it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to ever be saved again. Why? Because I make a mockery of Jesus’s atoning work on the cross.
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Granted, theologians and preachers of every persuasion have explanations for the multiple, contradictory plans of salvation. Many will dismiss the Hebrews quotes with a wave of the hand, saying, these verses apply to the Jews, not us. Others will open their sect’s systematic theology book, turn to the section on soteriology (the doctrine of salvation), and “prove” that any salvation scheme but theirs is wrong and will likely lead to eternal damnation and hellfire.
Here’s my point. If Christian theologians and preachers can’t agree on something as basic as salvation, what hope is there for those not trained in theology? How can people, without the preacher telling them, read the Bible and find out for themselves the way to Heaven?
From cover to cover, the Bible is a convoluted, contradictory mess. Try as theologians and preachers might to “harmonize” the Bible to fit their respective theological systems, they remain unable to simply answer the question, what must I do to be saved? (Acts 16 and Mark 16) Even with the passage that asks the question what must I do to be saved? Christian preachers argue amongst themselves over whether salvation requires baptism.
All I have detailed here is evidence that the Bible is very much a human-made book. Surely, if the Bible is inspired, inerrant, and infallible as many Christians sects and preachers believe, one would think that the manner in which someone is saved, how one comes into right standing with God, would be clear. It’s not.
Let me finish this post with Bruce Gerencser’s salvation plan:
Live well, do good works, and die. The only heaven and hell you will experience in this life is what you and your fellow human beings create.
Straight from the mouth of Bruce Almighty, written down on this inspired, inerrant, and infallible page. Thus saith Bruce.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Several years ago, a reader of this blog asked me to answer this question: Bruce, Will You Repent on Your Deathbed and Return to Jesus?
Good question.
I divorced Jesus in November 2008. Since then, I have proudly worn the atheist label. I am often asked WHY Jesus and I had a falling out and I ended our five-decade-long marriage. (Please see the WHY? page.) While the reasons are many, the primary reason I left Christianity is that its beliefs and practices no longer made sense to me. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) I no longer believed the central claims of Christianity: the existence of the triune God, the deity of Christ, the virgin birth, the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, to name a few. I no longer believed in original sin or that humans were inherently broken and in need of saving. I no longer believed that the Bible was an inerrant, infallible text supernaturally written by God. I came to the conclusion that Jesus lived and died, end of story; that the miracles attributed to him were human fabrications. As you can see, I reject out of hand virtually everything Christians believe and hold dear. Thus, I am an atheist.
Heaven and Hell are religious constructs used by clerics to keep asses in the pews and money in the offering plates. Heaven is the proverbial carrot, and Hell is the stick. Since these places do not exist, I need not fear spending eternity in the Lake of Fire being tortured by God for my unbelief.
While I am confident that Christianity is untrue, I remain open to evidence that suggests otherwise. It’s doubtful that any such evidence is forthcoming. Christian theologians and apologists have been making the case for Christianity for 2,000 years. I suspect everything that can be said, has been said. Solomon was right when he said, “There’s nothing new under the sun.” Countless Christian apologists have stopped by this site to ply their apologetical skills, hoping to reclaim Bruce, the atheist, for Jesus and perhaps save a few of his “followers.” Every one of them has left frustrated that their super-duper, clever, sophisticated arguments failed to win anyone to their cause. Why? Same shit, new day.
I am sixty-seven years old. In poor health, struggling just to make it to the next day, I know that I shall die sooner, and not later. Maybe I will live twenty more years. I doubt it. Dealing with chronic illnesses and unrelenting pain wears me out. There could come a day when I have had enough and I put an end to my struggle. Or, I could have a stroke, heart attack, cancer, or die from a hematoma on my brain from being clocked with a Lodge cast iron skillet by my wife. Or I could trip over toys left on the floor by one of my grandchildren, breaking my neck. The death possibilities are endless. Cheerful thoughts, people, cheerful thoughts. 🙂
The question posed to me presupposes that I will have a terminal illness that makes me bedridden, affording me the opportunity to repent of my sins and ask Jesus to save me. On that day, will I have the courage of my convictions and remain true to atheism, or will I pray the sinner’s prayer just in case Christianity is true?
The pattern of my life suggests that I will remain true to my convictions; that I will die, not with the name of Jesus on my lips, but that of my partner and family. I do not doubt that upon hearing of my soon demise, Evangelical evangelizers will seek me out, hoping to get one last word in for Jesus. Ceiling prayers will be uttered by Christians, pleading with God to save the vile, wretched, sinful atheist Bruce Gerencser. Will these efforts have their desired effect? I doubt it. The fact remains that I deconverted because Christianity no longer made any sense to me. I came to see that the central claims of Christianity were false. Intellectually, I simply don’t buy what Christians are selling. Since it is highly doubtful that any new evidence is forthcoming, I see no reason for me to change my mind on my deathbed.
Earlier this spring, a prominent evangelical Christian named Larry Taunton published a book alleging that Christopher Hitchens, an outspoken atheist, had been, during the last years of his life, “teetering on the edge of belief.” Taunton, who claims to have been one of Hitchens’s friends, cites as evidence two conversations he had with Hitchens during car trips on the way to debates about religion and atheism—debates, it must be said, that Hitchens was paid to attend.
Hitchens’s family and actual friends—people who didn’t pay to spend time with him—know that this claim is absurd. (I was honored to be one of Hitchens’s friends during the last five years of his life.) Hitchens saw Christianity as little more than a social virus with interesting literary overtones. That view never changed during his final year of life—a period during which Taunton didn’t even meet with him. Hitchens loved to engage in generous intellectual repartee, even with those with whom he unequivocally disagreed. His civility, it seems, has been misinterpreted.
This most recent claim, of course, is just the latest in a long line of similar claims about famous atheist conversions. It raises a worthwhile question: Why do evangelical Christians so often seek to claim converts among the dead?
In relatively recent history, the most well-known postmortem Christian evangelist is probably Elizabeth Cotton. In 1915, she declared that, thirty-three years earlier, Charles Darwin himself had revealed to her, on his deathbed, his wish to recant the doctrine of evolution in exchange for Christian salvation. This claim was shown to be false by none other than Darwin’s daughter, Henrietta Litchfield, who was with him at the end. She pointed out that Cotton—like Taunton, in Hitchens’s case—hadn’t actually visited him during his final days. And evangelical Protestants aren’t the only Christians addicted to the narrative of the deathbed conversion. Catholics have made claims about the “long conversion” of Oscar Wilde; the Mormon Church has gone so far as to baptize dead people who haven’t asked for it—pro-bono conversion, as it were.
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In a conversation we had a few years ago, Hugh Downs, the television anchor, suggested why this might be so. One of the reasons people go to church, he said, is intellectual validation. People attend church for spiritual and social reasons, of course: to pray and to see friends. But they also want to hear their religious convictions affirmed—convictions that, as the Dawkins survey suggests, may seem a little dubious during the rest of the week. Could it be that evangelicals seek to convert the famous dead because they’re insecure about their own beliefs? If they can claim that people they admire as intellects—Darwin, Wilde, Hitchens—ultimately agreed with them, it validates their own faith.
In the end, what evangelists don’t recognize is that atheism is not a belief system like Christianity, from which one might defect after hearing some arguments or having a few sombre conversations. It is, instead, simply a rational decision not to accept the existence of God without evidence. As wise thinkers, including Laplace, Hume, Sagan, and Hitchens, have often said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It’s hard to imagine a more extraordinary claim than that some hidden intelligence created a universe of more than a hundred billion galaxies, each containing more than a hundred billion stars, and then waited more than 13.7 billion years until a planet in a remote corner of a single galaxy evolved an atmosphere sufficiently oxygenated to support life, only to then reveal his existence to an assortment of violent tribal groups before disappearing again.
The idea of the deathbed conversion raises another question: even if an atheist were to accept a theistic worldview, why should he choose to adopt Christianity, rather than any of the world’s many other religions? Evangelical Christians assume, rather presumptuously, that the natural choice is Christianity. Hitchens was unlikely to share that view. As he emphasized in his own writing, no one talks about Hell in the New Testament more than Jesus; the New Testament, he wrote, is worse than the Old. Hitchens described the New Testament as envisioning a “Celestial Dictatorship, a kind of divine North Korea.”
In this regard, the saddest thing about these imagined deathbed conversions is that, even if they were real, they could hardly be seen as victories for Christ. They are stories in which the final pain of a fatal disease, or the fear of imminent death and eternal punishment, is identified as the factor necessary for otherwise rational people to believe in the supernatural.
If mental torture is required to effect a conversion, what does that say about the reliability of the fundamental premises of Christianity to begin with? Evangelicals would be better advised to concentrate on converting the living. Converting the deceased suggests only that they can’t convince those who can argue back. They should let the dead rest in peace.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Ken Ham, CEO of Answers in Genesis, the Creation Museum, and Ark Encounter is ever on the watchtower looking for a conspiracy he can gin up to rouse the faithful. Several years ago, Ham wrote that public school students were being taught to worship the sun. Here’s what he said:
Imagine if public school students in their science classes were encouraged to worship the sun. And yet this is happening! But how do they get away with it? Well, they just call worshipping the sun “science,” and then claim they can teach this “science” in the public schools!
You see, the following statement is allowed to be made (and is being made in a number of instances) to public school science students:
Our ancestors worshipped the sun. They were far from foolish. It makes good sense to revere the sun and stars because we are their children. The silicon in the rocks, the oxygen in the air, the carbon in our DNA, the iron in our skyscrapers, the silver in our jewelry—were all made in stars, billions of years ago. Our planet, our society, and we ourselves are stardust.
This statement was made by Neil deGrasse Tyson in the new Cosmos series. Evolutionists are encouraging teachers to use this series in public school classrooms.
Evidently, Ham doesn’t know what the word revere means. While the word “worship” can be thought of as reverence, it is almost always used in a religious sense. Neil deGrasse Tyson is NOT using the word “revere” in a religious sense. Of course, Ham denies this because he believes atheism/humanism/secularism is a religion. Ham needs to buy himself a dictionary so he can learn what words such as “worship” and “revere” actually mean. Will he do so? Of course not. The coffers at Ham’s monuments to ignorance are running low. He needs to attract people to his creationist amusement park to keep his “ministry” afloat. Scaring Evangelicals is a surefire way to get them to Kentucky to get their fears allayed. For $44.99 a person, Christians can learn the “truth” about sun worship, and every other lie Ham peddles from atop of his creationist empire.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Several years ago, my wife’s cousin, and an Evangelical pastor in Newark, Ohio, posted the following on Facebook:
Do not be fooled! Class warfare, rioting, racism, defunding police, expansive government programs…these are the building blocks to socialism. These are reasons so many flee to America!!
I have known Polly’s cousin for over forty-four years. He was the ring-bearer in our wedding in 1978. Andy is an affable guy, the only preacher in Polly’s family that I get along with. We have had numerous conversations over the years. Never an angry word, though we have disagreed many, many times.
After reading Andy’s anti-socialism comment, I decided to respond, hoping that I could educate him about socialism, specifically democratic socialism. I suspect that I am the only atheist socialist Andy knows. The conversation quickly deteriorated when a friend of Andy’s named Tim — an Evangelical know-it-all, if there ever was one — decided to hijack the discussion and attack my atheism. He quickly started talking about evolution and morality, and even went so far as to tell me that I was an agnostic, not an atheist.
Long-time readers likely know what I told this man: fuck off! In fact, I told him to fuck off twice. The discussion was about socialism, but he wanted to make it about me and my atheism. I refused to play, and here’s his final comment to me (paragraphs added for readability. Grammar and spelling as written).
Last comment, then tomorrow when i get up I will just block you; since you do not want to debate.
you are angry because evangelicals make truth claims. yet you are making truth claims also. there is a saying. everyone has a right to their opinion, but only those who are correct have a right for their opinion to be true.
socalism is the start of communism and nazism. socalism has always harmed the poor and middle class, and makes politicians rich royal leaders. socalism always worships government, as everyone has to worship something. you know it. thus why you attack me, for pointing out truth.
Last, there is truth. there is a creator. there is a God, and that God is the one true God of the Bible. I pray that you meet him one day, before you die; as that will be too late. if you truly seek truth there are hundreads of books taht not only show the truth of what I am saying, but gives all the evidence inside and outside of the Bible for what I am saying. the best, for someone that truthly seeks truth, is evidence that demands a verdict.
I pray one day you seek the truth and realize that it is not what you claim it to be.
Just another day in the alternate universe called Evangelicalism. That this man thinks Josh McDowell’s book, Evidence That Demands a Verdict, is the best book for someone like me shows that he doesn’t really know much about agnosticism and atheism, nor does he know anything about my background. McDowell’s arguments have been debunked numerous times. Had I thought this man had a rational, skeptical bone in his body, I might have engaged him, but since he doesn’t, I chose not to cast my candy bars before pigs.
The only thing that offended me was his claim that I am an agnostic, not an atheist. He refused to let me self-identify as an atheist. In his mind, agnostic and atheist are two different things. Had he been open to thoughtful, rational discussion, I would have educated him about why many professed atheists are agnostics and atheists. I have talked about this issue numerous times on this site. Some strong atheists disagree with me on the matter, but claiming to be an agnostic and an atheist is certainly within the orthodox pale of the most holy atheist religion. Yet, this knucklehead thinks atheism is a religion. Whatcha gonna do when faced with someone who thinks he knows everything, yet knows very little? At this point in my quickly fading life, “fuck you” seems to be an appropriate response.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Steve Proctor is the pastor of Westwood Baptist Church in Poplar Bluff, Missouri. Westwood Baptist is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church affiliated with the Baptist Bible Fellowship in Springfield, Missouri. I was saved, baptized, and called to preach at a BBF congregation — Trinity Baptist Church in Findlay, Ohio — in the early 1970s.
Proctor came to this site via Google search. Proctor, as is common among his species, showed no interest in learning anything about me. (Please see the WHY? page.) He read all of two posts:
After spending ten minutes on this site, Proctor deemed himself sufficiently informed to comment on my psychological state and my age, along with throwing in a not-really-sorry for the “hurts” in my life that must have caused “this” — whatever “this” is — and a promise to pray for me.
Proctor’s comment — which he posted twice — patience pastor, patience — was succinct and to the point:
You are a very sad and bitter old man. I’m so sorry for the hurt in your life that must have caused this. I will pray for you.
Proctor uses the word “sad” not in the sense of depressed or discouraged, but to say that I am pathetic or a joke. He then says I am bitter. Knowing that he only read two posts on this site, I have no idea how this IFB Freud determined I was bitter. And for the record, I am not. I have debunked this claim numerous times, so I won’t do it again. I will say, however, that Proctor has zero evidence for his claim. First, he didn’t read enough of my writing to know anything about me. Second, he made no attempt to reasonably and politely interact with me. Instead, he just threw the word bitter out there, hoping to wound me. Sorry, Pastor Proctor, but I’m immune from such juvenile attempts to cause harm.
Proctor goes on to call me an old man. He got that one right, but how is my advanced age relevant? Besides, doesn’t the Bible say that Christians are supposed to treat the elderly with honor and respect? Evidently, God’s commands don’t apply when commenting on an atheist senior citizen’s blog.
Proctor goes on to allege that some sort of hurt in my life caused “this.” Proctor doesn’t say what “this” is, but I assume “this” is my atheism and my opposition to Evangelical Christianity. Had Proctor bothered to have curiosity (please see Curiosity, A Missing Evangelical Trait) about the man, the myth, the legend Bruce Gerencser, he likely would have found that I have addressed the “hurt” allegation numerous times. Sorry, Pastor Proctor, but some sort of “hurt” didn’t cause me to divorce Jesus and walk away from Christianity. I deconverted for intellectual reasons, not emotional ones. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) I am more than happy to engage you on THOSE issues, if you are so inclined. Warning, I know the Bible well, have spent most of my life reading and studying the Bible, and have preached more than 4,000 sermons.
Evidently, Proctor’s Bible is one of those new-fangled translations that leave words and verses out of the one true and perfect Bible — The King James Version. (That’s sarcasm, by the way. Proctor is King James-only.) The verse that seems to be missing from Proctor’s Bible is Proverbs 18:13:
He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
I love how The Living Bible translates this verse:
What a shame—yes, how stupid!—to decide before knowing the facts!
God says that Pastor Proctor is shameful and stupid for judging me before knowing the facts. I agree with God.
At Westwood, we want you to feel at home and be part of our family. Westwood is a church with a heart where loving and caring friends will help you and your family grow in God’s grace.
On a page titled, A Word From the Pastor, Proctor says:
Here at Westwood, we are known as “A Church with a Heart.” God has truly given our church a heart for people. Our desire is to provide effective ministry to every person of every age from all walks of life. From the moment you visit for the first time, we hope that you sense the love that fills our hearts. More importantly, we hope that we are able to show you our Lord’s heart.
Sounds like a church pastored by a loving and caring man, a church with people who are filled with love. How do we square these advertising clichés with Pastor Proctor’s comment on this site? Where’s the love, pastor, where’s the love?
Proctor says he will pray for me. If he is the typical IFB preacher, he won’t do so. You see, “I will pray for you” is meant to convey judgment, that Proctor deems my life insufficient or damaged in some way. It is often an epithet preachers hurl at people they disagree with. They have no intention of seriously storming the throne room of Heaven on your behalf. That would be too much work. There are too many other unbelievers to vanquish and condemn to bother praying for them. That said, thousands of Evangelical Christians have said they are praying for me. Despite thousands and thousands of prayers asking God to save me, kill me, or chastise me, I remain an unrepentant atheist. Why, it is almost as if prayer doesn’t work.
I hope Pastor Proctor will remember this post the next time he leaves a stupid — to quote God’s Word — comment on someone’s blog. I hope he will stop being a Fundamentalist preacher, choosing instead to be kind, decent, thoughtful human being who sincerely tries to get to know people different from him — be they atheists, agnostics, humanists, socialists, liberals, or others.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Last week, I wrote a letter to the editor of the Defiance Cresent News about the wall of separation of church and state, and how Lifewise Academy is a trojan horse used by Evangelicals to demolish this wall. Lifewise, a sectarian Evangelical parachurch organization, holds weekly release time religious instruction classes for most local school districts. Its goal is to establish Fundmentalist beachheads in every American public school.
Public education is foundational to success and progress. While parents are free to homeschool their children — as my partner and I did — or send them to a private school, we must not starve, neglect, or demonize public schools.
Public schools are government institutions, governed by local, state, and federal laws. Children from all walks of life attend public schools. Tolerance and inclusion are expected when our children or grandchildren attend school. My partner and I have sixteen grandchildren attending the Stryker, Tinora, Fairview, and Defiance school districts. We expect our grandchildren to receive well-rounded educations, taught by teachers who understand the importance of secular education and the concept of separation of church and state. Alas, a few teachers and administrators have attempted to proselytize our grandchildren or push their Evangelical beliefs. This, of course, should never happen. Christians are free to be school teachers and school administrators, but their personal beliefs should play no part in instructing students.
Recently, I attended a high school graduation — one sponsored and directed by a local school district. What a proud day for our family as one of our older grandchildren graduated with honors. In the space of three generations, we have gone from me being the first person to go to college, to our grandchildren going off to study at major universities. We owe their success to our public school system and its dedicated teachers.
As a non-Christian, I am accustomed to school districts trampling over the First Amendment and the wall separating church and state. I recently told a lawyer for the Freedom From Religion Foundation when speaking with her about the increasing encroachment of Lifewise Academy in Ohio’s schools, that there were enough church-state violations in rural northwest Ohio for FFRF to set up a full-time litigation office in this area.
The graduation ceremony featured a local clergyman who felt duty-bound to put in a good word for Jesus and his peculiar version of Christianity. Using the J-O-Y acronym, he reminded graduates of the importance of putting Jesus first. Never mind the fact that many of the graduates and attendees are not Christians. To be told that rightly ordering one’s life requires Jesus is beyond offensive. Such talk belongs in church, not secular public school graduations. I told a family member later that I live by the Y-O acrynym: yourself first, others second — no Jesus needed.
Bruce Gerencser Ney, Ohio
Michelle Tucker, an Evangelical Christian who lives in rural Defiance, took umbrage with my letter. Here’s what she had to say:
I am compelled to talk about Bruce Gerencser’s observation of LifeWise programs. Although the leaders of LifeWise are too kind to comment on this, I will.
His words about LifeWise brainwashing the children is ludicrous. Would you rather the children grow up to be intellectuals with no commonsense for living? And would it be better for children to grow up and go to universities and colleges only to come out acting like heathens, following the herd that demonstrates in our streets today, causing all kinds of havoc and destroying the very fabric of our society, not to mention burning down parts of American history?
Foundations are important to not only build buildings, but to build lives. LifeWise is creating a safe place for children to learn the basic necessities of life.
Perhaps Mr. Gerencser failed to mention he was a pastor. I guess he wanted to make up his own rules regarding God. Perhaps he wanted something from God, maybe for someone to be healed and they weren’t healed and now he hates God and decides now He is God. Even in our misinterpretation of God He still loves us.
Exodus 20 says, “I am the Lord God who brought you up and out of Egypt.” Egypt was a place of protection and refuse, and also a place of wickedness and oppression.
1. You shall have no other gods before me.
2. You shall make no other images before you.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.
So which of these 10 commandments are you having trouble with? The one about you shall have no other gods before me? Because the other nine and the first commandment are non-negotiable.
You have free speech (for now) and that’s your right and mine. The truth is you can’t change truth, no matter how hard you try. Today people say, “it’s my truth or your truth.” How ridiculous. Truth is truth, by it’s very nature. There is only truth.
People of God we need to stand up for the truth of God’s word. If we don’t, who will?
Michelle Tucker
As readers can readily see, Tucker’s response had nothing to do with the content of my letter. Instead, she decided to attack my character, making unfounded claims about my moral beliefs. I have been writing letters to the editor of the Crescent News for seventeen years. More than a few local Christians have taken a similar approach as Tucker, choosing to demean and debase the man instead of engaging his arguments. I am used to such abuse. As a public figure, I know such ill-bred behavior from Evangelicals comes with the territory.
What follows is my response to Tucker’s letter.
Dear Editor,
This is my response to Michelle Tucker’s letter to the editor. My letter was about the separation of church and state. Tucker never addresses this issue, choosing to attack me personally instead.
Tucker asserts that I said Lifewise was brainwashing children. You will search in vain for my use of this word in my letter, and in the over 5,000 posts I have written for my blog. I have been clear: Lifewise indoctrinates and conditions children. There’s an academic difference between these terms and brainwashing. Evangelical churches and parachurch organizations are known for evangelizing children as young as nursery age. They know the importance of indoctrinating children when they are young. Get them when they are young and you will have them for life. That’s why Lifewise focuses on elementary-age children. Young impressionable minds are more likely to believe things such as young earth creationism, Noah’s flood, the tower of Babel, and other mythical stories.
Parents should be informed as to what Lifewise, a sectarian Evangelical organization, will actually teach their children. Ask them what students will be taught about the origin of the universe, cosmology, biology, archeology, human sexuality, and the exclusivity of Evangelical Christianity. Ask them what students will be taught about marriage, divorce, and self-esteem. I’ve personally viewed internal Lifewise documents. If you think this is all about “character building,” you might want to investigate further. The goal is to make your children loyal soldiers in God’s army.
Tucker wants people to know that I used to be a preacher. Why? I have no idea. Yes, I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years. I was also a restaurant manager, auto mechanic, grant writer, factory worker, and insurance salesman. How is my resume relevant to a discussion of Lifewise Academy and the separation of church and state?
Tucker wants to portray me in a negative light, as someone who is morally lacking. How she knows this is beyond me. According to Tucker, what keeps her and other Christians from murdering their neighbors or robbing a bank is their faith in God. If that’s the case, I hope they keep on believing. However, for those of us who are unbelievers, we don’t need a deity to keep from committing crimes. I have murdered as many people and robbed as many banks as I want to — none.
As for rebutting Tucker’s scurrilous claims about morality and truth, I will need more words than the newspaper allows.
Bruce Gerencser Ney, Ohio
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, is upset at me, so much so that he has challenged me to a street fight. 🤣
Thiessen has written five posts about me in the past week. Think of all the subjects he could write on, yet he is obsessed with what I say on this blog, becoming more hysterical with every post he writes. I fear he is going to have a stroke or hire a Christian hitman to kill me if he doesn’t change the channel.
I can’t stop him from raging against Bruce Almighty. I can either ignore — which I typically do — or rebut his nonsense. I’m in a rebut mood, so Thiessen can expect me to respond to him, if warranted. The following excerpt from his blog post, There is One Statement, requires no response. Thoughtful readers will see his post for what it is:
In BG’s [Bruce Gerencser’s] response to our Prove It article we [I] will address [what, exactly?]. It falls right in line with what we [I] were [was] saying in that article:
[Who’s keeping anyone from believing anything? No, what…is afraid of is people learning that he is peddling a lie.]
All we [I] can say in response is PROVE THE CHRISTIAN FAITH IS A LIE. He has failed to do so and has failed to produce any real, credible, and verifiable evidence supporting his assertions and claims.
Put up or shut up BG [Big Gonads]. Your time of reckoning has come. [I am laughing hysterically as I read this.] You have spouted off for 11 years, give or take a year [seventeen years], now it is time to pay the piper and put your ‘evidence’ on the table to be examined by those who are experts in this field. [This doesn’t apply to Thiessen because he’s not an expert on anything other than personal attacks and fallacies.]
Or are you too chicken to show your readers that you can’t do it? [I’m still laughing.] Your word is not enough so let’s see what you have that shows the Bible to be in error and that Christ does not exist. [Christ does exist, Derrick. I have never said otherwise. He lived, he died, and is buried in an unknown grave.] Follow the guidelines we [I] posted in our [my] Prove It article. [Dammit, Derrick, quit asking me to expose myself to you. Disgusting, Dude.]
We [I] and the rest of the world are waiting. [The only person waiting is Thiessen. The 5,000 posts I have written on this site speak for themselves.]
{Oh and by the way, while spelling errors may exist, Grammarly and us [I] do not always catch them so give it a rest already}. [Thiessen has repeatedly claimed that Ben Berwick and I have edited his posts, comments, and emails. This, of course, is untrue. This is why I always say that any quotes from Thiessen’s site are his alone, complete with bad grammar, spelling, and punctuation. I use Grammarly too. It is a good tool, but I still need an editor to proof my writing.]
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, is on a downhill roll lately, complaining, bitching, whining, and raging about me and my British friend Ben Berwick. Today, Thiessen wrote a post titled, Christians Do Not Have to Provide Proof, directly contradicting what the Bible says in 1 Peter 3:15: But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.
What follows is my response to Thiessen’s post. All spelling, grammar, punctuation, and irrationality in the original.
The unbelieving world is always demanding that Christians prove their faith is true.
I have NEVER asked a Christian to “prove their faith is true.” Faith, by its very nature, is beyond investigation. However, the claims Christians make can and must be investigated to see if extant evidence justifies, verifies, and bolsters their claims. If Thiessen wants atheists to buy what he is selling, he must provide verifiable evidence for his claims. So far, he refuses to do so, choosing to dismiss, ridicule, and call names instead. According to the Bible, Thiessen’s behavior is inconsistent with the Christian faith.
Yet, that is an arrogant demand as the unbeliever sits in the judgment seat and then tells Christians what is or isn’t proof.
Logic, science, and common sense determine what is and isn’t evidence for Christian claims. (I wish Thiessen would quit using the word proof. Proof is a mathematical term.)
The Christian can never win when this tilted playing field is used. Christian scientists have spent decades providing scientific proof, Christian archaeologists and astronomers have done the same, and so have many other researchers.
If Christian scientists have provided persuasive evidence for Thiessen’s claims, I haven’t seen it. If said evidence is what Thiessen says it is, why don’t Evangelical scientists show their work by publishing in reputable journals? Thiessen, a Bible literalist, believes the universe was created in six literal twenty-four-hour days, 6,027 years ago. Everything science tells us about the universe and our biological world says these claims are false. Thiessen demands “proof” from atheists, yet fails to offer persuasive evidence for his “scientific” claims apart from saying, “The Bible says.” According to him, the Bible — as interpreted by him — is inerrant and infallible, the ultimate authority and final answer to every question. This position, of course, is absurd. Sadly, Thiessen wants to argue science claims by appealing to faith. This may work with like-minded believers who accept his presuppositions, but will get him laughed out of the room by scientists and skeptics.
For the most part, the unbeliever just sits there, denies the evidence, and continues on their merry yet sin-loving way. The Christian has to learn that we do not dance to the unbeliever’s tune. What they demand doesn’t matter to us.
Thiessen’s peccadilloes are well known. A man who abandoned his family (including a child) and fled the United States to avoid paying child support, is in no position to lecture anyone on morality.
Of course what unbelievers “demand” matters to Thiessen. He has spent the past three years blogging about unbelievers, namely Bruce Gerencser and Ben Berwick. He has written hundreds of posts that directly or indirectly mention us. Yet, instead of engaging intellectually and rationally, Thiessen attacks our character or quotes Bible verses.
Once again, I challenge Thiessen to a public debate on YouTube. Let’s settle these issues once and for all, Derrick.
What matters is what God wants us to do in a given interaction with unbelievers. he knows their hearts and what will or won’t work with the individuals of that people group, so there is no sense jumping to meet the demands of the unbeliever.
Thiessen justifies his boorish behavior and lack of persuasive arguments by saying he’s just “doing what God wants him to do.” How can Thiessen possibly know what God wants him to do? How does he know the voices in his head are “God”?
I’m pleased that Derrick admits my lack of faith is God’s fault; that if God wants to save me, he will provide Evangelical apologists with the requisite tools necessary to bring me to saving faith. I’m dead in trespasses and sin, unable to save myself. My eternal destiny depends on God and Christians. So, I am waiting for God and his representatives on earth to come through. Until then, how about them Cowboys?
We listen to what God wants us to do and present the gospel meeting that instruction. If God does not want us to provide evidence, then we do not. Christians are under no obligation to provide physical evidence to unbelievers.
Evidently, Thiessen’s Bible is missing 1 Peter 3:15: But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.
This verse says: Derrick, always be ready to make a defense of your beliefs to Bruce Gerencser, Ben Berwick, and other unbelievers. And do it, not with name-calling and personal attacks, but with gentleness and respect.
Is this not, Derrick, exactly what the B-I-B-L-E says?
If the unbeliever does not accept changed lives as evidence, then there is little hope they will accept evidence from 2000 to 4000 years ago. The Silver Scrolls has been around for 50 years approx., showing that the Bible has not changed since the 7th century BC.
OMG, did Thiessen really say that “the Bible hasn’t changed since the seventh century BCE ( BC and AD are no longer used by academics other than Evangelicals)? I challenge Thiessen to provide actual evidence for this claim. Better yet, this would make an awesome debate topic. Of course, Thiessen will NEVER debate me on this subject. He knows, or should know, anyway, that his claim has no evidentiary basis. And I mean NONE. Thiessen’s claim is contrary to what Evangelical and secular scholars alike tell us about the nature and history of the sixty-six books of the Protestant Christian Bible and its underlying Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic texts.
Yet, few people accept that as evidence that the Bible is true and not edited. So what do we do with the evidence Christian researchers discover??
Simple. Provide empirical evidence that the Bible is inerrant/infallible (true) and has NEVER been edited. Of course, no such evidence exists. Instead, we know that the Bible is errant and fallible, and has been edited countless times. This is a fact, not a claim, as the relevant academic literature shows. Again, I point to Dr. Bart Ehrman’s bestselling books on the history and nature of the Bible (and I can give Thiessen a list of numerous other Bible scholars and theologians who agree with Ehrman).
….
We need to keep the unbelievers honest as they will say anything to hide from the truth. The unbeliever does not have any hidden smoking gun physical evidence proving the Bible false. If you read BG’s response to yesterday’s post, you would have seen that he presents nothing to support his denials.
Sigh. I’m not going to write an academic paper every time a Thiessen gets his pink Victoria’s Secret panties with the days of the week on them in a knot over something I wrote about the Bible. I have covered these issues numerous times over the past seventeen years. Further, I have publicized the work of scholars such as Ehrman, Dr. Dan McClellan, Dr. Kip Davis, Dr. Joshua Bowen, and others — all of whom sport actual PhDs, unlike Thiessen’s unaccredited, diploma mill “doctorate.” I have also publicized debates featuring Matt Dillahunty and Alex O’Connor.
Why doesn’t Thiessen ever respond to their work, other than calling them names, belittling them, and asserting, without evidence, that they are wrong? Why are they wrong? They are unbelievers, and, according to Thiessen, unbelievers don’t know anything. Only Christians know the “truth.” (I assume Thiessen only sees and uses Christian doctors, lawyers, dentists, optometrists, auto mechanics, and contractors.)
That is because they have no physical evidence to prove their denials are correct. They have nothing thus they decide to be arrogant and demand Christians to prove their faith is true. Unbelievers are not in charge of what is or isn’t evidence.
Actually, logic, reason, and science determine what is and isn’t evidence. It’s absurd to appeal to an ancient religious text as the foundation and rules for what is evidence. Thiessen has made up his own rules of discourse and intellectual pursuit, demanding everyone play by his rules. He is akin to someone wanting to play poker with the rules for Go Fish. That ain’t going to work.
They would not know the evidence if it hit them in the face.
….
Sure we would, but Thiessen rejects academic consensus, choosing instead to appeal to only Evangelical scholars or those who hold positions roundly dismissedby most Bible scholars, archeologists, and other experts in their relevant fields. It is up to him to empirically show why academic consensus is wrong.
And I am not saying academic consensus is always right. However, since neither Thiessen nor I are scholars, accepting consensus scholarship on any given issue is generally a good idea. As a pastor, I believed that if I came up with an interpretation contrary to academic consensus, I was likely wrong. Thiessen, on the other hand, thinks just because he can read the Bible in English that he is right.
….
Do not cast pearls before swine and have the evidence trampled under their feet. If you do, you may lose what God has provided for you to remain strong in him. You never have to present physical evidence when sharing the gospel with unbelievers.
Again, 1 Peter 3:15 says: But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.
Evidently, Thiessen doesn’t believe and practice the whole Bible —only the verses that suit him or justify his beliefs.
….
The men recorded having their lives changed including one who used the Bible to roll his cigarettes and became a Christian when he got to the Gospel of John. Another example is the man who wrote the movie Ben Hur, another was an agnostic doctor, and more.
If the unbeliever cannot accept the fact that Christ changed lives, then it is doubtful they will accept other evidence. Dead men do not change lives, especially millions of them around the world throughout history.
Thiessen refuses to accept the fact that subjective experiences and personal testimonies prove nothing.
Seven million Americans are Mormons. To Derrick, I ask, are their subjective experiences and personal testimonies true? How about those of Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Roman Catholics, Charismatics, and other religious groups? I know how Thiessen will answer, but let’s see if he will actually expose the absurdity of his claim.
We are ignoring BG’s [Bruce Gerencser’s] response because it is unhinged, irrational, illogical, and unworthy of further comment. He gave up his faith and little can be done for him. Since it is not his faith anymore, he needs to shut up and mind his own business.
He and other atheists and people who left the faith are in no position to demand anything.
I don’t demand anything from Evangelicals (the only true Christians in Thiessen’s book) other than if they make claims and demand I accept them, I want to see evidence for their claims. If you say a virgin-born God-man, who later was executed and resurrected from dead, healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, turned tap water into wine, walked on water, walked through walls, teleported from one place to another, and worked so many miracles that all the books in the world, if they were written down, could not contain them, I’m going to want evidence for your claims; the same evidence Thiessen asks Muslims, Mormons, and other non-Evangelicals to provide for their claims. The Bible is not evidence, it is a book of claims. If Thiessen wants unbelievers to accept his Bible claims, he must provide evidence that supports his claims. It’s not enough to say “the Bible says.”
Derrick, I ain’t going away. No matter how many times you call me names, attack my character, or belittle my story, I plan to keep writing until I can physically no longer do so. That could happen soon — I hope not — but until it does, I will continue to share my story and help people who have doubts and questions about Christianity or who have left the faith. Rage against me all you want, Derrick, but I ain’t going away. I suggest you buy some Preparation H for what ails you.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I suspect that most of us who were raised in Evangelical Christianity have heard the faith/chair analogy. If you have not heard it before:
Faith is like deciding to sit in a chair. You don’t know that the chair will hold you, yet by faith you believe it will, so you sit down in the chair.
Quite deep theology there, brethren.
Here’s the problem with this analogy: sitting in a chair does not require faith. Let me explain it this way. I am a big man, so making sure a chair will withstand my considerable ass sitting in it requires me to use the scientific method of inquiry.
Before I ever sit in a chair, I ask myself, does this chair LOOK like it will hold me? Now looks aren’t enough, as I learned several years ago at a Toledo Olive Garden. After the hostess brought us to our table, I glanced at the chair and quickly sat down. Except I didn’t make it all the way down. As I started to put my weight on the chair, it kicked out from me and I landed flat on my back in the middle of Olive Garden. I hit my head on the cement floor and could not get up. The manager came running in to make sure I was all right. The only injury was to my pride. So, was the chair defective? Not at all. The chair had casters and I didn’t see them. As I started to sit down, the chair rolled out from underneath me and I fell. Because I didn’t pay attention to the construction of the chair, I ended up on the cement floor. This is what having faith in the chair got me.
Most of the time, when we go out to eat, I carefully check not only the construction of the chair, but the ingress and egress. As a disabled man, I want to know the lay of the land. Where’s the bathroom, can I easily walk to it? As far as the chair is concerned, I rock the chair back and forth and side to side, making sure it is solid, and I press on the seat, making sure it will hold me. I have been to more than one restaurant where I’ve had to ask for a different chair lest the one they wanted me to use leaves me on the floor. The only thing worse than a chair breaking is the embarrassment that comes from it (though my editor suggests that getting injured would be worse).
Using the scientific method, I test a chair to make sure it will hold me. After I have done so, and it passes the tests, I feel confident that the chair will support my 6-foot, 310-pound body. I have been a big man most of my adult life, and this method of determining chairworthiness has never failed me. The only time I have ever had a chair break is when I “faithed” it.
The faith/chair analogy breaks down in another way, because the chair is an inanimate object that I can see and touch. God can not be seen or touched, and believing in God requires blind faith.
This is one of the reasons I am an atheist. I see no evidence for the Christian God. Believing in such a deity requires faith, a faith I do not have. For me, seeing is believing, and I do not “see” the Christian God.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
What is Christian faith?
The substance of things hoped for
The evidence of things not seen
Perhaps the wording of the NIV will make it clearer:
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
Many Evangelicals get upset when someone suggests that their faith is a blind faith. But isn’t that exactly how Hebrews defines faith: believing without seeing; that faith is the proof of belief in that which can not be seen?
Creationists would do well to read Hebrews 11 the next time they try to scientifically “prove” creationism. Hebrews 11 makes it clear that believing God created the universe requires faith. It requires faith to ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence for the formation of the universe, earth, and life. Creationists embarrass themselves and besmirch their religion when they try to make creationism fit into a scientific box. And when their efforts fail, what do they do? They retreat to the safety of faith, a place they should have stayed to start with.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
