Why do you people bother arguing and debating with this guy? He’s spiritually dead as a doornail and always has been. His 25 years in the pastorate was a complete sham. If you doubt that call the leadership staff at any of the churches and ask about his conduct. On top of multiple failed “ministries,” he has hopped from job to job and place to place (22 and 18, respectively). Don’t waste your time reading his blogs. His mind is darkened and his heart hardened by sin. He has nothing of substance to offer you. Above all else don’t make a donation and facilitate his folly.
This man did read a few more posts than the typical Evangelical asshole (9), so for that HSV Counseling gets a gold star beside his name. Atta boy, you sure put that atheist Bruce Gerencser in his place. Here’s what HSV wants readers to know:
I am presently as spiritually dead as a “doornail (utterly devoid of life).”
I have always been as spiritually dead as a “doornail.”
The twenty-five years I spent pastoring Evangelical churches was a complete “sham.”
The leadership at the churches I pastored will confirm that my work as their pastor was a “sham.”
The churches I pastored were “failures.”
I worked a lot of jobs and lived in a lot of places in my lifetime. This is another sign that proves I was a “failure.”
People shouldn’t waste their time reading my writing. Why? My mind is darkened and my heart hardened by sin.
I have nothing of substance to offer readers.
And, most importantly, people shouldn’t make donations me, facilitating my folly.
I find it interesting that Evangelicals — who don’t know me — can read a few blog posts and then, angered, outraged, and butthurt about what I wrote, attempt to psychologically wound me by attacking my character. Years ago, such attacks were quite effective. So much so that I would often stop blogging for weeks and months on end. At the time, I thought, why won’t they just accept my story at face value? Why do they have to attack me personally instead of interacting with my writing? Why are they comfortable with lying about me and distorting the narrative of my life?
I am not sure that I can answer these questions, but I do know that how I respond to such people has changed. I no longer let their words harm me. Sure, much like everyone, I don’t like it when people personally attack me, malign my character, and, on occasion verbally assault my spouse, children, and readers of this blog. I know these Cowards for Jesus® hide safely behind their computer screens, smartphones, and tablets, never fearing the consequences of their un-Christian behavior.
When I have the opportunity, I will track them down and out them, giving a very public face to their hateful words. Years ago, an Evangelical man sent me numerous hateful emails and comments. I eventually figured out who he was. This Coward for Jesus® was using his work computer to email me. One day, while he was, once again, verbally assaulting me, I called the HR department at the company he worked for, informing them as to what this man was doing while on the clock — while accessing the Internet from his work computer. This man never sent me another email. He got my message loud and clear.
The same goes for James Tester, an IFB pastor who sent me a nasty email several years ago. Unfortunately, for Tester, he left enough breadcrumbs for me to track him down. (Please see IFB Pastor James Tester Sends Me a Message.) Now Tester has to live with the fact that when someone searches for “Pastor James Tester” on Google, the aforementioned post ranks fourth, right after his Facebook and Instagram pages. Do I find a bit of smug satisfaction when this happens? Yep, I sure do. There’s little more that I can do than publicize their “faith” for all to see.
Alas, for HSV Counseling — bclarkf150 — all my Google search returned was Herpes Simplex Virus Counseling. There’s a punch line there for readers who would like to make the connection.
I will continue to publicizes these kinds of emails and comments because I think it is important for people to see the ugly side of Evangelical Christianity. If nothing else, they remind us of one of the reasons we walked (ran) away from Christianity. It’s hard to argue for the moral and ethical superiority of Evangelicalism as long as Jesus-loving trolls attack and disparage the very people Jesus commands them to love.
Now, let me get back to counting all the donations I received today. Almost enough for me to buy a Lear Jet! All praise be to Loki!
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I follow the KJV 1611 group on Facebook. Recently, the following meme was posted:
I decided to respond to the meme. Enjoy!😉 All spelling, grammar, punctuation, and bad arguments in the original.
Bruce: I studied the Bible and that’s why I’m an atheist. 😈 Indeed, the truth shall set you free!
KJV 1611: Bruce Gerencser “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” – God
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser you did not study bc if you had you wouldn’t be an atheist..
Bruce: Tommy, I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years, and a pastor for twenty-five years. So nice try, but no cigar.
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser yeh, so you page says .. that doesn’t mean you understood what you read.. hey, I’m not judging… Youre a grown man, you have free will. Which is proof that God is real.. if we were confined to just being science we would be bound to only to laws of physics.. no free will. But you tell yourself whatever you choose. Regardless, you know you shouldn’t deny God/Jesus Christ and def not the Holy Spirit. Please reconsider your position
Bruce: Tommy, where can I take the test?😂
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser just order your permits online like usual.🤣
Bruce: Tommy, we don’t have free will, so there goes your God.
Q: Bruce Gerencser .. so who made you become an atheist?🤔.. nobody but yourself= free will
Bruce: Tommy, sure. 😀😃
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser yep I made you make that response too 🤔🤣.. thank you for continually verifying that I am 100% correct.. Because it’s your continual free will to choose to respond Just as it’s my free will to continue to prove you wrong and it’s working perfectly!!
Bruce: Tommy, nope. I answered you because I’m preconditioned to answer dumb statements. I can’t help myself, it’s my nature.
More seriously, if you want to have a real discussion about free will contact me via my blog. I’m more than happy to explain my understanding of free will — both as a Christian and an atheist. I’ve much to say, but this isn’t the proper forum to do so. 🤣❤️
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser you obviously, YOU HAD A CHOICE TO RESPOND.. OR TO NOT RESPOND ,,, WHICH proves you did 1 or the other and that was your choice , nobody made you. . that is free will. God isnt going to make you choose him. Your choice to respond to me Your choice to except him. Please, stop arguing…m still yet a free choice..
Janie: Bruce Gerencser pitiful.
Bruce: Janie, thank you.😂
Emily: Bruce Gerencser Galatians 5:7-9 KJV Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh $not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump…… there’s still time for you to repent and turn back to Christ
Bruce: Emily, sadly, you fail to understand that quoting Bible verses to atheists doesn’t work.
Joseph: Bruce Gerencser Anyone approaching God must first believe that He is.
Joseph: If I didn’t believe that you’re real, it would follow the same logic that it doesn’t matter what your comment says, or what you write on here at all. you’re an AI and you’re not real. If I approach you with that mindset I would have the same mindset about you as you do about God.
Bruce: Joseph, I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Marcia: Bruce Gerencser facts, if you are not a child of God you can never understand his words. God spoke in parables so that they who belong to him can comprehend. You need to ask God for his wisdom and his spirit. Because without his spirit it profited nothing. If God doesn’t give you his understanding, then you just don’t belong to him. He created us all. But not everyone belongs to him. A fool says there’s no God.
Bruce: Marcia, good to know. Then there’s no need to preach the gospel to me, right? Or telling me to read the book of John, right? Or quoting Bible verses to me, right? You might want to tell your fellow believers that I’m deaf. 🤣🤣
Michael: “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap” (Galatians 6:7).
“[12] The wicked plots against the just, and gnashes at him with his teeth. [13] The Lord laughs at him, for He sees that his day is coming” (Psalm 37:12-13).
“And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:7).
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad” (2 Corinthians 5:10).
“He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48).
“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” (John 3:36).
“But unless you repent you will all likewise perish” (John 13:3).
“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:15).
“[18] Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, [19] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God” (2 Corinthians 5:18-20).
Mr. Gerencser, I’m pretty sure it’s likely you haven’t read the Bible in full, that is, cover to cover. Typically, those who profess to be Atheists, yet also claim to have read and studied the Bible, likely did not read a lick of it, or if they have, it was perhaps a few verses here or there; or what they ‘heard’ of the Bible from a third party who themselves don’t believe, and who claimed they too “read” the Bible.
I have encountered many Atheists in my day, and usually all they have to hear is the preaching of the Gospel message and they decide to remain an enemy of God in their unbelief, because their pride is offended by the conviction of the Gospel. And most often than not, these individuals wouldn’t even bother to read more of what they believe is an offense to them. So the claims of most Atheists of having ‘read’ the whole of the Bible is far more a stretch of the truth than they personally believe the Bible to be. If we are keeping totally 100% here.
I pray the Lord has mercy upon you and quickens your spirit that you might believe, call on the name of the Lord Jesus and be saved! But if you remain stubbornly hard of heart, and will not receive a love of the truth, then it is simply as my Lord Jesus says, “You are not of God”, you are not of the truth, therefore you cannot receive His words. And if this is the case for you, woe unto you. For Hell is real, my friend, and judgment IS coming! Only God knows whether you will ever believe or not, so I will lovingly say to you, my friend, be reconciled to God.
Repent of your sins! Turn from them and turn to God! Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, whom God the Father sent to die for yours, mines and the whole world’s sins. Put your faith in Him [alone] to give you forgiveness of your sins, redemption, and salvation!
Seek the Lord—NOW—while He may be found; and do not perish in your sins. For tomorrow is not promised to anyone. The life of men is but a vapor; like the grass that fades, or the glory of a flower that’s here today but gone tomorrow. Yet, if you repent and believe the Gospel of Christ, even though you die, you shall live!
“[16] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [17] For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (John 3:16-17).
Call on Him! 🙂 <3
Bruce: Michael, I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years. I pastored IFB, Southern Baptist, Christian Union, and Non-denominational churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan for twenty-five years. So, yes, I read the Bible — the KJV — cover to cover numerous times. All told, I spent 20,000 hours studying the Bible and preached 4,000+ sermons. I know, comprehend, and understand the Bible. If you doubt me, ask away. I’m confident I can pass with flying colors any Bible Knowledge Test you might give. 🤣❤️
Louwtjie: Bruce Gerencser sad to say this..but I question it…..were you ever born again. JOHN 3:3-5 Where you ever filled with the Hoky Spirit…did you ever confessed Jesus Christ as your Savior. ROM 10 :8-10…I don’t think so
Bruce: Louwtjie, yes, I was born again. Anyone who knew me at the time will testify of my faith in and commitment to Christ.
That I don’t fit in your peculiar theological box 📦 is your problem, not mine.
Bruce: Louwtjie, yes [were you ever born again], yes [were you ever filled with the Holy Spirit], and yes [did you ever confess Jesus Christ as your Savior]. Now what?
William: if your really a atheist??? you might have read the BIBLE, but study it is very different, you have my prayer that OUR FATHER will open your eyes to the real WORD of GOD [JESUS CHRIST] my opinion only
Bruce: William, yes I’m “really” an atheist — agnostic atheist, to be exact.
As pastor, I spent 20,000 hours studying the Bible and its attendant teachings. I preached expositionally. I committed myself to knowing the Word of God, not only for myself, but also for the people I pastored.
James: You cannot understand the bible unless the Holy Spirit gives you understanding, so if your not saved you have not the Holy Spirit indwelling you, therefore there is no understanding….
Bruce: James, yet numerous people quoted Bible verses to me in this thread. If I can’t “understand” it, why quote it to me? If the natural man cannot understand the things of God, preaching to me or quoting verses is worthless.
So, which shall it be?
Several other Fundamentalists commented but blocked me so I couldn’t retrieve their comments. Evidently, allowing an atheist to respond to a comment you made about him will give you demonic cooties.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I responded to an email from an Evangelical man I’ll call Fred Flintstone. The sender took great umbrage at me using his first name, so as not to upset him further, I have given him a pseudonym, Fred Flintstone. You can read Part One here.
Today, over the course of two hours, Fred sent me seventeen emails. Evidently, my response upset him. I don’t plan to respond to every one of his emails. Thoughtful readers will see that his emails speak for themselves; just seventeen more emails added to thousands of similar emails from Evangelicals I have received over the past seventeen years. I do, however, want to address several things mentioned by Fred, in the hope that by doing so, he will see that he has careened off the runway and crashed into a fuel truck, destroying whatever chance he might have had for putting in a good word for Jesus. Instead, he comes off as just another butthurt Evangelical who isn’t used to pushback.
First, the original article about Kenny Bishop was a defense of the man and his new path in life. I wrote:
Several days ago, I had a hankering for music from The Bishops. As I was listening, I thought, “I wonder where Kenny Bishop is today?”
….
Talk about finding the unexpected — a liberal, gay Kenny Bishop. I definitely didn’t see that one coming. That said, I am happy for Kenny and his husband Mason. While I am no longer a Christian, I know that Christianity needs more Kenny Bishops. I have no doubt Kenny was eviscerated for his repudiation of Evangelical orthodoxy and their hatred of LGBTQ people. I know first-hand how it feels to be cut a thousand times by people who once loved you, people who were your family, friends, and colleagues in the ministry. Kenny, it seems, has risen above the anger and judgment and made a new life for himself. I wish him nothing but the best. He will remain my all-time favorite southern gospel tenor singer. And better yet, he is an example for people who still believe in God, but want to free themselves from Evangelical bondage. For people of faith, there are kinder, gentler expressions of Christianity. As Kenny Bishop’s life shows, one can still meaningfully believe in the Christian God without being Evangelical. While I can’t follow such a path, I don’t condemn others who do.
Kenny is a United Church of Christ (UCC) pastor. The UCC is arguably the most liberal denomination in the United States. UCC theological and social beliefs are the polar opposite of the beliefs held by most Evangelicals. Would most Southern Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, other Evangelical sects, and nondenominational churches welcome Kenny into their congregations to sing or preach? Of course not. Evangelicalism is the primary driving force against societal acceptance of LGBTQ people. Kenny would not be permitted to be a member of most of these churches. Why? They consider him an apostate, a reprobate — whose behavior is an affront to the Evangelical God.
Second, Fred repeatedly complained that I didn’t answer his questions. What questions, exactly? His email contained all of one question mark, and even that sentence was as much a statement as it was a question.
Here’s Fred’s original email:
I read your Kenny Bishop piece. Kenny knew his lifestyle would not fit in Southern Gospel but he still finds way to serve. He believes as I do, savior above sin! Kenny’s still working. I don’t know how you become a Former Christian that is still moved by gospel music. The fact that it still moves you is a pretty good indication that there’s something still in you. The funny thing is Christians that claim they ain’t Christians anymore. That don’t work man! You can’t take that off like a shirt! You going to mess around and die and be pissed you in Heaven?
How many questions did you find?
Third, every Evangelical who emails me is served a page that says, in part:
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
If you email me anyway — and I know you will, since scores of Evangelicals have done just that, showing me no regard or respect — I reserve the right to make your message and name public. This blog is read by thousands of people every day, so keep that in mind when you email me whatever it is you think “God/Jesus/Holy Spirit” has laid upon your heart. Do you really want your ignorance put on display for thousands of people to see? Pause before hitting send. Ask yourself, “how will my email reflect on Jesus, Christianity, and my church?”
Fred has no justified reason for being upset that I used his first name in response to him, before changing it to Fred Flintstone. For the sake of future discussions, I will call myself Barney Rubble. 🙂
Fred threatens me with legal action, as if no one has ever tried that before with me. There’s nothing in my response to him that remotely breaks the law, and my editor, who is a lawyer, would tell me if I did. Fred might want to study up on things such as the First Amendment, Fair Use, and what is permitted in public discourse. I am a public figure, as is Kenny Bishop. U.S. law sets a high bar for slander, and I am confident I have not slandered anyone. My writing typically uses news articles, public documents, and websites to justify and bolster my posts. This blog primarily features my opinions about various religious or political subjects. People are free to read or not read what I write. If Fred wants to take me to task for what I have written, I suggest he start his own blog and type away. As a warning, let me say others have tried to methodically deconstruct my life. Every one of them eventually gave up. Successful blogging is hard work. Ninety-five percent of blogs are eventually abandoned. As you will see below, I have even offered Fred the opportunity to write a rebuttal post. Much as I did with Dr. David Tee, I am more than happy to give my critics the unedited space to respond to me.
Fourth, I have met the Bishops too. We attended two of their homecomings in Berea, Kentucky, and heard them several times in concerts over the years. One thing is for certain, neither Fred nor I know Kenny Bishop well. My goal was to encourage and support Kenny. Take a gander at the comments Jesus-loving Christians left on the original post and see my responses. They will tell you everything you need to know about my motivations.
Finally, I’ll never understand Fred’s approach to me. What did he hope to accomplish by repeatedly swearing at me, calling me names, threatening my manhood, and trying to scare me with baseless threats of legal action? How does his behavior square with what Jesus said to his followers about treating their enemies? Or where can the Fruit of the Spirit be seen in Fred’s responses to me? Look, I am a big boy with thick skin. I can take abuse from God’s chosen ones all day long. However, as a man who was an Evangelical for fifty years, and a pastor for twenty-five years, I can tell you that this kind of behavior doesn’t do anything to advance the cause of Christ.
If Fred had questions, I would gladly answer them. But, slinging curse words and derogatory names my way will not elicit the desired response. Religious beliefs (or atheist beliefs, for that matter) are not off-limits on this site. Want respect? Behave respectfully.
Fred is free to comment on this post or any other post on this site. If he asks legitimate, thoughtful questions, I will gladly answer them. I don’t shy away from interaction with people who disagree with me.
Bruce
What follows are the emails I received today from Fred. They are in the order I received them. All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original.
Email 1
You wrote another blog to pick apart my questions to you! How can you claim not to be a Christian but take something I said in Praise of Kenny Bishop and turn me into an evangelical person that’s mad at somebody! Most Christians or professed Christians would simply tell you Kenny is going to Hell! Keep writing your one sided, hateful blogs in the hopes you’re changing people’s minds about Christianity! You’re leaving an online legacy of straight up stupidity! I simply said If you were saved, you are saved and saying you’re not does not matter to God! I said you’ll still go to Heaven and didn’t wish Hell on you! Yes I am a Christian but the hate filled type, that’s not me! You didn’t even answer any questions. You dodged them with all the anti religious rhetoric! You’re an online joke!
Email 2
Don’t have a damn thing to add to the religious debate. You try to embarrass people that try! As a blood bought child of God, Hell with You!
Email 3
Seriously though sir! You said ask questions and you’ll answer. You didn’t mention you’d write an another addition to your bullshit with someone’s name it! What I’m waiting for you do is include my last name in your Christian hate speech and I’ll sue you for slandering abs twisting my words and my name to fit your cluster Fucked agenda! Yea I’m Christian but don’t be calling me out on a online unless you want to be on a court docket line!
Email 4
I have no trouble standing against a Web Hoe who misrepresents me!
Email 5
As far as Kenny Bishop. He and his family and fellow Gospel Artists know why he left Southern Gospel music but they still love him and his family does too. I’ve Met Kenny, Mark and the Bishops on several occasions. Their story would match mine contrary to what a Web Hoe says! Savior over sin may have been wrong terminology for someone like you who has no comprehension of what a savior really is! You weren’t man enough to live up to it! You Quit! Kenny & I haven’t
Email 6
That’s the only reason I replied to piece as we called it but now since we know that you lie on your page about people you don’t personally know it looks more like a “Piece Of Shit!”
Email 7
That’s how evangelical I am dude! I’ll cuss you the fuck out in Jesus Name!
Email 8
Seriously. The language I use, the bad things I do, the bad things that other people do. That’s what your piece of shit page is! It’s a gossip rag and you put my name on it for asking questions that you request? I am from a family of attorneys. My niece specializes in the cyber parts of the law. So go ahead and include my last name on your rag page and you’ll see what it’s like to make a bullshit webpage end up putting you in a trailer park without wi fi!
Email 9
We grow up being asked to believe in things that don’t exist. Santa, Easter bunnies, tooth fairies so I can definitely completely understand how an unseen God can get thrown in that mix. Honestly I can’t put to one particular thing in this world that I can point to and say “There it is! There’s proof of God” except things that I’ve personally been through but then again for someone like you, everybody has a story. I don’t judge you based on your beliefs! That’s the beauty of Freedom! We are free to believe whatever we want! Don’t turn your non belief into making a public mockery of my belief. If we going public the I have an attorney for that! Amen
Email 10
I don’t care about the religious aspect of it anymore. If you want to put my name on your rag, talking about human beings personal sexuality then you need to be sued anyway!
Email 11
You’re not a reporter or a journalist. You’re a Keyboard Thug!
Email 12
Finally in closing let this sink in that twisted mind of yours! I sent you a private email. You chose to call me out in a very public way and totally distort and mocked me in addition to outing Kenny again too! Kenny probably wouldn’t tell you this but I will because we’re all individuals with opinions and I’m Me! You called me out so my response is Fuck You!
Email 13
And mess around never was a reference to you doing anything against your wife or doing anything wrong. You ask people to message you with questions brother. That implies that you do not object to dialogue with people with different views. That’s Cool. What is not cool is to take that discussion public and only show your views! You want to interview me? You want to know exactly where I stand? Do that and you’ll see although I’m not ashamed to be a Christian and you’re not a Christian, we probably still have more in common than not. You’ll never know because you’re content to run with Bullshit!
Email 14
And in your specific case, I don’t think he does but I hope God does in your situation feels the same as you and me. Ok we ain’t friends anymore? Go To Hell Then!
Email 15
Because you can literally see Anything online is very misleading. Celebrities would be in court forever if they went after everybody that spoke ill of them. I’m just an average every day person. I do believe in God but I do have non believer and gay family members and friends. I don’t try to be all holier than thou and force my belief system on them. If I’m asked questions I’ll answer but I don’t judge on the partying and stuff. If I’m around it. I’m involved! I don’t see my faith a list of rules and regulations at all. That’s religion. I am not involved. Not Guilty. I have a personal relationship with God. I’m not a preacher or teacher. I try to keep the 10 commandments and if that is the wrong approach then it at the very least keeps me out of a courthouse so I’ll roll with it!
Email 16
I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend. Don’t automatically jump to conclusions on people based on 1 email. Some of us who claim Christ, Don’t claim some that call themselves Christians! We are not Hate. We Don’t discriminate. We know everyone has problems and habits but we do too, so we love anyway! A Christian that comes at you any other way is not always the real deal!
Email 17
That’s one thing you will never hear in a current Evangelical church. 10 commandments were the law of God passed down from Moses and backed up by Jesus. Evangelicals will add every sin known to man as to why you’re going to Hell but all I remember Jesus saying was keep my commandments or laws and love one another! You take the coolest Christian’s ever in me and Kenny to try to use as click bait to further your beliefs! Dude were the closest thing to your beliefs without crossing over!
After writing this post, Fred sent me sixteen more emails.
Email 18
I have said everything I feel and have been told to cover! You referred to me on an open website and totally turned it around for evil intent. I’ve given you plenty of Ammo to write Part 2 but you better entitle “Keep The Shirt On because it might be the last one you got when I see your 67 year old, old ass in court!”
Email 19
You trying to low key bash people on your website. Let’s go big and do a podcast! Come at me with all that atheistic I’ll make an example of you by one statement attitude! You’ll be the laughing stock getting cussed out by someone who is saved! I’m not Holy bro! I’m Holy Shit! He said that!
Email 20
You are used to dealing with Christians who have been almost programmed to act a certain way. I identify as a Christian who has morals, but I was raised by a 3 times a week church mom and a former military alcoholic dad. My childhood was always in the middle of raising Hell and Amazing Grace so somehow at 50 I have kept both close to my heart! I’ll call you out on some straight up Bullshit and pray it over later!
Email 21
See I have taken all day on a Sunday replying to your bullshit post because you obviously took the time to write it. I don’t give a shit about misspelled words or proper punctuation. I’m not the one posting about people’s private lives. How you did me was shitty on I’m banking on you to do it again and include my last name like you did Bishop! You wanna be an Atheist playing God online with people! I’ll show you someone that will hit back in a more public way than a website!
Email 22
I know you don’t believe because you’ve never talked to anybody that believes but remained “Real!” If gay existed when I was growing up and when you grew up, I’m not at all shocked of it today! This ain’t new! You telling me God waited over 2000 to start picking specifically on gay people? That is also an Evangelical move to hide behind fairh to hate someone. You want to make masses believe your bullshit about people you don’t know just to make arguments against religion! I don’t come to you as religious! I didn’t come to you in disagreement about the existence of God. I made a comment about a good guy to you! You trying to pick apart every word as bad against you and Kenny! Pick apart Deez Nutz!
Email 23
So you basically got a guy that would sit down and have a drink with you and not be offended by anything you said to me in private but you chose to go public to mock me? Old Punk Ass Keyboard Thug with a website that looks like those fake ass magazines you used to see in grocery stores! Leave a Legacy Bro, not a Leech!
Email 24
I love dealing with highly intelligent people who think they have all the answers! Sometimes people aren’t questioning your beliefs or interested in arguing over religion. I was actually searching for bishops videos, clicked on your “Piece” of Shit and just gave Kenny some praise! I don’t know I had a 67 year old 1 sentence means an article Web Hoe who just waits on shit to jump on people. You jumped on the Christian in a Christian vs Atheists debate that will curse more than the Atheist! I don’t necessarily buy that salvation strips you of your rights to individuality, authentically being You! That’s the problem here man! Know your enemy before just picking unnecessary fights!
Email 25
I’m sure you love to argue with the intellectual seminary type but come down to the southern holding on by a thread sometimes people and see if you can persuade one of us to pussy out too!
Email 26
Goodnight! God Bless Hail Mary Hallelujer and all that. You yourself said you respected what Kenny did! How the fuck you going to jump on me for saying the same thing from my perspective?
Email 27
In total finality, you are a former pastor and I understand partly how you can have your beliefs change. You were a pastor on the front line. You saw firsthand how big of assholes church members are! I saw i also. I worked in a restaurant and the Sunday after church crowd were the shittiest whiners all week. I saw grown ass men still in church clothes make waitresses cry minutes after getting out of Sunday Meeting. I’m not naive or dumb. I never said you’re dead wrong or out of line for your beliefs. How did my short ass comment spark a whole new one sided post with accusations, inferences and speculation about somebody you don’t know? Webster would define you as an intelligent Dumbass.
Email I sent to Fred Flintstone:
Mr ********,
You seem to think I am interested in corresponding with you. I’m not. I’ve heard from countless people like you. I plan to put your responses into another post. Feel free to comment on the post or write a guest post detailing your grievances. Outside of that, I have no interest in hearing from you again.
I did change your name to Fred Flintstone. I hope that suits you.
Bruce Gerencser
Email 28
That is fine. I’ll respect your wishes and leave you alone. Fire away!
Email 29
I’ve unfortunately dealt with people like you before in my job in law enforcement. As long as I can lie, I’ll talk! If I’m called out on a lie, no comment! Post one post with my name on or in it and I’ll take your ass for the ride of your lifetime!
Email 30
And it’s Sgt ****** to People who hide behind screens
Email 31
I gave you credit for serving time on the front line as a pastor. You may have hit reverse but you did serve the time. I understand that you and your don’t believe anymore but I pray that if there happens to be an eternity then the work you honest to goodness put in is recognized and enough! It may be totally in the past but you’ve been there and done it! That’s way more than some do! Goodbye
Email 32
Sir I have read your page and bio. I see about your health issues. I won’t insult you with prayer but I’m sorry you have to deal with all that. Fire away at me but I’m leaving you alone. I don’t want to upset you. Be Well Sir!
If Fred sends me any more emails, I will post them here.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
But the natural [unsaved, unregenerate] man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can [lacks ability] he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (2 Corinthians 2:14)
According to 2 Corinthians 2:14, the natural man — anyone who is not a Christian — cannot receive the things of God, neither can he know them. Why? Such things are spiritually discerned; since the Holy Spirit does not indwell the unbelievers, they cannot know them.
If this is so, and Evangelicals say it is, then why, oh why do they quote Bible verses to atheists, agnostics, pagans, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Shintoists, Catholics, and other unbelievers? We lack the God-given ability to understand the Bible, so why bomb us with verses from the allegedly inerrant and infallible Word of God?
Of course, this is nonsense. All of us can read, understand, and comprehend the Bible if we choose to do so. Many of us don’t do so because we don’t find the Bible text interesting or valuable. I have spent most of my life with my nose in the Bible. While I no longer find spiritual value in the Bible, I still find it to be a fascinating text. Or better put, I am fascinated by how individual people interpret the text. One God, one allegedly supernatural text, countless interpretations.
Evangelical apologists often use 2 Corinthians 2:14 to discredit my writing, saying that I am a “natural man,” unable to truly understand and comprehend the Bible. Apologists should realize how absurd this is, but, hey, THE BIBLE SAYS, right? Here’s the thing, I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years. I was a Bible college-trained pastor; a man who spent over 20,000 hours reading and studying the Bible. Yet, the moment I deconverted, fifty years of Bible knowledge disappeared from my mind. God sent Agent J (Will Smith) and Agent K (Tommy Lee Jones) to my house, and with their Men in Black neuralyzer, they wiped from my mind EVERYTHING I knew and understood about the Biblical text. Amazing, right?
Or, 2 Corinthians 2:14 is wrong. Reason and common sense tell us that all that is needed to understand the Bible is the ability to read; and that knowledge gained is never lost unless age or dementia affects our memories and understanding. For Evangelicals intent on saying unsaved, unregenerate people cannot understand the Bible, I ask that you stop quoting the Bible to me and other atheists. God himself says I CANNOT understand the Word of God. This, of course, leads to another dilemma for Evangelicals. The Bible says in Romans 10:17, So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. If I can’t “hear” the word of God due to me being a “natural man,” this means “faith” is beyond me. Go ahead, Evangelicals. I look forward to you explaining away the clear teachings of the Bible.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Years ago, three young Ohio boys fell through the ice on the Sandusky River and drowned. What a terrible, terrible tragedy. Two of the boys were brothers.
The pastor of the church where their funeral was held said the following: (link no longer active)
A minister has told mourners that three Ohio boys who fell through ice and died together in a river are now playing together in heaven.
This statement is restated many different ways during countless Christian funerals:
Granny is running around Heaven now with no pain!
Gramps is in Heaven now and doesn’t need a wheelchair to get around anymore.
Momma is in Heaven, where she has no more pain, sickness, disease, or suffering.
Here’s the problem . . .
Statements such as these are not true.
Historic, orthodox Christian doctrine teaches that when people die, they go to the grave. They are DEAD. The body remains in the grave until the resurrection. At the resurrection of the just and unjust, those who have died will receive new bodies (1 Corinthians 15).
So why is it that preachers lie about the present location of the dead? Why did I, as an Evangelical pastor, lie to numerous grieving families?
Sentimentality.
Families are grieving. They have lost a loved one. They want to believe there is a divine purpose, and they want to believe that life continues beyond the grave.
So preachers concoct grand stories about Heaven and the immediate transport of the dead from earth to the sweet-by-and-by. Never mind the fact that the Bible does not say this.
Belief in the afterlife requires faith. No one has ever come back from the dead to tell us what lies beyond the grave (if anything). Anyone who says he has is a liar.
Even Jesus himself didn’t talk about the afterlife after his resurrection from the dead. His disciples did, the apostles did, but not Jesus. He told his disciples that wherever he was, they too would be someday. He never mentioned one time any of the things commonly heard in Christian funeral sermons.
Even the notion of spending eternity in Heaven is not taught in the Bible. Search all you might, it is not there.
What IS taught in the Bible is that followers of Jesus Christ will live forever in God’s eternal kingdom (on a new earth). On this point, the Jehovah’s Witnesses are probably closer in belief to what the Bible actually teaches than many Evangelical Christians.
The same could be said about Hell. Those who are not followers of Jesus will NOT spend eternity in Hell. The Bible doesn’t teach that. The Bible DOES teach, however, that unbelievers will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14).
Sentimentality allows preachers, who are supposed to be guardians of Christian doctrine, to ignore what the Bible teaches in favor of telling stories to comfort grieving families.
I understand WHY they do it, but let me be clear: Preacher, if you can’t tell the truth when it really matters the most, how can you expect people to believe anything you say? If sentimentality allows you to ignore what the Bible teaches about Heaven (and Hell), how do we know that you are telling the truth any other time? Not telling the truth in hard circumstances results in a loss of credibility.
As an atheist, I have serious reservations about the notion of an afterlife. At this point in life, I lack the requisite faith necessary to believe that there’s life after death. I am of the opinion that each of us had best get to living this present life because it is the only one we have. That said, if you are a Christian, you are bound by what the Bible teaches. As a preacher, you are obligated to tell the truth. In fact, you owe it to your congregants to tell them the truth, even when it is hard to do so.
Of course, remove sentimentality from the equation and the Christian gospel and the promise of eternal life lose their luster. Telling grieving family members that Grandma — who attended church for 70 years and gave vast sums of money to the church — is lying in a grave, rotting until Jesus resurrects her a day, a hundred years, or twenty millennia from now doesn’t have as much appeal as Grandma is in Heaven right now, in perfect health, praising Jesus day after day. She can’t wait for you to die and join her in Heaven, so the family circle will be unbroken.
Evangelicalism preaches a deferred payout. Yes, Jesus saves sinners, but the Christian life is no picnic. Life is filled with pain, heartache, and suffering. Preachers know they can’t fool their congregants about their lives. The evidence is clear: life is hard, and then you die. So, they make promises of a blissful, pain-free afterlife. The payout is immediate. Draw your last breath on earth, and draw your next breath in Heaven (or Hell). Preachers have no evidence for these promises, so they tell flowery, sentimental lies, hoping people will buy what they sell. They aim to get sinners to close the eternal life deal without reading the fine print. The fine print — which is found in the Bible — tells the purchaser that all promised rewards happen sometime in the distant future. Until then, your worm-eaten, rotting corpse will remain in the grave. Evangelical preachers have been making eternal life promises for centuries. These preachers come and go, live and die, and much like those to whom they promised eternal life, they lie decomposing in their graves. There they shall remain until Jesus returns to earth and resurrects them from their graves. Given the fact that Jesus promised to return in the first century, I think we can safely conclude that he, too, is lying in a grave, never to arise again from the dead.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, an Evangelical Christian sent me the following message via Facebook Messenger (all spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original):
The things posted on this very sad antitheistic, misotheistic atheist page is spewing hatred for Jesus Christ whom you say you disbelieve in!
If so why not leave it alone?
Why does this page and other atheist pages exist??
We all know bugs bunny isn’t real.
We all know the tooth fairy isn’t real.
We all know Santa Claus isn’t real.
We all know there is no leprechauns or Easter bunny or Mickey Mouse!
But there is not one page running them down!
Not one group meets in a coffee shop or library or had a convention to run them down and take them out of schools or public venues!
Jesus Christ is God! He is real and this is misotheism not atheism!
He loves you and died and rose again to give you eternal life in heaven and forgiveness of sins.
I pray each person here will eventually allow the Holy Spirit to convict them and will accept his gift!
BEternity separated
Eternity separated from God will be horrendous!
Fire! Screaming and crying and torment! Forever ! No one will get out of hell and yes it is real!
You will curse the day you were born!
You will curse the second you were conceived!!!
You will wish you were murdered (aborted) an atrocity that many of you support!
You will wish your daddy would have pulled out of your momma!
That’s how unimaginably horrible hell will be!
You don’t want to go there and Jesus died for you so you would not have to go there!
God bless!
The sender of this message seems to think that I “hate” God, thus I am a misotheist, and not an atheist. What’s with Christians refusing to let me self-identify? I have never told a professing Christian that he or she is NOT a Christian. I accept at face value their claim of faith in Jesus. It’s not up to me to say, “Oh, you are not a True Christian®.” I leave it to Christians to fight among themselves about who is the real Christian and who is not. I just wish that Christians — Evangelicals, in particular — would respect me enough to accept at face value my story — that I am an atheist. How hard can this be, right?
I don’t hate the Christian God, nor do I hate Satan, Jesus, or countless other deities. Jesus died almost 2,000 years ago — end of discussion. Why would I waste my time hating a dead person? God and Satan, on the other hand, are myths. Again, why would I waste my time hating mythical beings? Such behavior is silly and absurd.
This commenter confuses the deity Christians worship with the beliefs and behaviors of said Christians. My objection is to what is done in the name of God/Jesus. My objection is to the theocratic tendencies of Evangelical churches, pastors, and parachurch organizations. A mythical deity can’t harm anyone. However, works done in his name can, and do, cause psychological and physical harm. (Please see Why I Hate Jesus.)
I will leave Christianity alone when Evangelicals, Mormons, and conservative Catholics retreat to their churches and stop trying to turn the United States into a “Christian” nation. As long as True Christians® attempt to force their theology and interpretation of the Bible on unbelievers, I am going to object. One need only watch former President Trump’s attempt to ingratiate himself to Evangelicals to see how dangerous Evangelical Christianity really is. Who is it that is trying to abolish abortion, LGBTQ rights, same-sex marriage, and is integral to the rise of white supremacy in the United States? Evangelicals. You see, their God is not the problem, they are.
The last part of this man’s message is one assertion after another. Blah, blah, blah … either accept what I am saying or you will forever burn in Hell. I love it when Evangelicals threaten me with God’s punishment and eternal torture. Refuse to repent? God is going to get you! In fact, you will wish you had never been born. Again, blah, blah, blah . . . I have heard such nonsense more times than I can count. God doesn’t exist and Jesus is dead. What do I have to worry about?
I don’t fear what God may do to me any more than I fear Santa Claus making a list and checking it twice, looking to see who has been naughty or nice. It is flesh-and-blood Evangelical zealots I fear, especially those who are gun-toting white supremacists. We need not fear God, but God’s people? Foolish is the person who doesn’t recognize that Evangelicals are an existential threat to our republic; that given enough power, they will either incarcerate or kill atheists, agnostics, pagans, and other unbelievers.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, I received the following comment:
I’m a ex-IFBer from bygone years. You’re right there was too much control by pastors but that doesn’t justify slamming Christianity and the Scriptures. Bruce, don’t throw out the “baby with the bath water”. Thousands upon thousands of pastors are faithful and earnest.
Also, an atheist believes nothing created everything; stars, sun, trees, horses, cats, puppies, etc. That’s a scientific impossibility. A painting is proof there was a painter; paintings don’t paint themselves. Neither can creation create itself, therefore creation proves there’s a Creator. You may not believe in the God of the Bible but if you’re intellectually honest you’d have to admit there’s a creator before creation.
This man agrees with my assessment of the authoritarianism found in many Evangelical churches, but he thinks I am throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater. I would never throw a baby out with the bathwater. Who does shit like that? All I do is pull the plug out of the tub and drain the water. None of my children or grandchildren has ever been small enough to go down the drain. Just saying . . .
I understand the point people who use this analogy are trying to make. They ignorantly assert that I reject God/Jesus/Christianity all because of certain negative experiences I have had with the church and its clerics. However, as I have stated more times than I can count, most of my experiences as a Christian and as an Evangelical pastor were positive. On balance, I had a happy, productive, satisfying life as a pastor. The reason I am an atheist today is not (primarily) due to negative experiences, but because I reject the central claims of Christianity. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.)
This man conflates me telling my story and my critiques of Evangelical Christianity with “slamming Christianity and the Scriptures.” While my writing is typically pointed and direct, I don’t think it slams Christianity and the Bible. Scores of Evangelicals and mainline Christians regularly read this blog. They frequent this site because some aspect of my writing resonates with them. Can I go overboard sometimes? Sure. But I do my best to be open, honest, and forthright with my words. That some Evangelicals get butthurt is not my problem.
I suspect that this man fled the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement and joined up with what he perceives is a better flavor of Evangelical Christianity. Countless Evangelicals have used this argument with me. What I have noticed is that all they have done is exchange harsh, in-your-face Fundamentalism for a Fundamentalism that is more subtle and nuanced in its extremism. (Please see Are Evangelicals Fundamentalists?)
This man’s comment reveals that he does not have a clear understanding of atheism. He confuses certain scientific beliefs with atheism. Let me educate him about atheism:
Atheism is in the broadest sense an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.
What atheists believe about science in general, and biology, cosmology, and the other scientific disciplines has little to do with their beliefs about the existence of deities. One can be an atheist and believe all sorts of things, including woo and nonsense. My Gawd, some atheists are Republicans and plan to vote for Donald Trump. Atheism is no cure for ignorance.
This man says that if I am “intellectually honest,” then I have to admit that there was a “creator” before “creation.” In other words, if I don’t believe this, I am intellectually dishonest — Greek for I am a liar. Of course, this man doesn’t just believe in a “creator” of some sort. His email betrays the fact that he is an Evangelical Christian; that he believes that the God (Jesus) of the Protestant Christian Bible is that “creator.” Whether he is a young-earth creationist, an old-earth creationist, or a proponent of unintelligent design doesn’t matter. According to him, the creation story traces its genesis back to the Bible God. As an atheist, I reject such assertions, choosing, instead, to cast my lot with science — real science, not Evangelical theology dressed up as science.
I have long said that I understand someone looking at the universe and concluding that a creator of some sort created it. Snap! I bet this man didn’t see that coming! It pays to actually read what I write instead of reading a few posts about Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap and then commenting. Let me be clear: I intellectually understand how someone can look at the universe and conclude that a deistic God of some sort set everything in motion; that a deistic God of some sort said, “There ya go boys and girls, do with it what you will.” What I reject out of hand is the notion that this creator is the Bible God; the God this man believes in and worships.
In the seventeen years that I have been blogging, no Evangelical has, to my satisfaction, connected the dots between A GOD and THE GOD. Believing the Bible God is the creator is a FAITH claim, not a matter of scientific fact. Either one believes the God of the Bible created everything, or they don’t. I don’t. I do not have the requisite faith necessary to believe that the creation account recorded in the Bible is true. Science tells me Genesis 1-3 is a fictional story, a fable, not scientific fact. How could it be, right? Genesis was written thousands of years before humankind had anything but a rudimentary understanding of the world. Even today, with everything we know, our knowledge has but scratched the surface of understanding.
Evolutionary biology and other branches of scientific inquiry do a good job of explaining the natural world. While scientists have not yet determined who or what was behind “creation,” they continue to seek answers to this question. Pointing to some verses in an ancient religious text or positing intelligent design arguments, which are nothing more than gussied-up creationism, tell us nothing of value. I am content to say, “I don’t know.” In fact, I am content to say, “I don’t care.” Arguments about the beginning of time and the creation of the universe don’t interest me. I am a slowly dying sixty-seven-year-old man. I have a wonderful wife, six mostly wonderful children, sixteen awesome grandchildren, and three loving, annoying, crazy cats. I choose to focus on the here and now. I am confident that the Bible deity is no God at all, that there is no Heaven or Hell, and death is the end of everything. I am confident that the claims of Christianity are false; that original sin and the need for forgiveness and salvation are a con perpetrated on humanity by the purveyors of religion. I have all I need in this life, save a World Series championship for the Cincinnati Reds and a Super Bowl win for the Bengals. If “God” can come through on these things, I just might consider returning to the fold. Until then, I remain a committed, unrepentant agnostic atheist, humanist, and liberal.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Some observations. We have things in common. Not that means much of anything. I see that you enjoying pointing out anecdotal statements expect for when you employ them yourself.
I’ve read some of your website, but I have seen very little that makes you unique and oh how we must be unique. We are both grey. You have me by a few years but who knows how that will end up….. We are both sarcastic. We have both lied and been lied to so many times we can’t honestly blame someone else or adequately defend ourselves as being worthy of followers. I see that you’ve tried that before but you really haven’t given up. You just draw a different crowd now. I imagine just as you once lied to your congregation to gather their approval, you know lie to your current “flock” to gather the same thrill you once had.
It is rather obvious that you enjoy an intellectual battle and you feel as if you’re better at it than anyone else. I’d like to chance to prove you wrong. Do you want to let our “egos” do the talking…… I find it amazing that any intellectual can build a website such as you’ve built, taking pleasure in your accomplishments, as feeble as they are……..at yet fail to recognize the majestic qualities surrounding your life.
If ANY intellectual would honestly compare your website to what God has written all around you…. You must admit that you just can’t compare. Yet, you recognize your own work at the expense of another. So weak and fleeting is your pleasure. Which is really life’s lesson you fail to recognize. Standing “fist clinched” in the face of overwhelming insignificance you possess. You must recognize you are powerless to produce anything lasting and effective by any measure of common sense. Just what good is love if it ends. Just what good is peace if it fails you? You take pleasure in the fleeting moments of your paltry website not considering its inevitable end.
I noticed that you failed to adequately express your hatred for the historical Jesus? Why? Fear? I know, how dare….. whomever….I’m sure you feel contempt rising to your lips or keyboard. I know what I know. If you’ve ever made a real emotional connection with Jesus Christ, it is more than fear. It goes the very root of what you became. So step back, and with unfeigned contempt throw your last ditch hatred at the imaginary…… Can you really do that? Does your intellect fail you?
As is my custom, I let this person know I had publicly responded to his email. Here’s what he had to say in response:
Read your response. I also read the comments from your new followers.
For the record. I didn’t lie to you. This email account is mine. I didn’t spoof anything. The URL’s are different. I respectful appeal to your mistake as a mistake. Don’t let your ego avoid admitting it. [The previous post was corrected to reflect this] Also, I have read much more of your site than you detail. I thought we might have a progress conversation based upon our interactions. It would appear that you’re still a baptist at heart. You prefer your assumptions to what is actually written/said.
When I said you lied, I meant that you lied. What you fail to realize is just how much of an [sic] contemptible man you were to the followers you have now. It would seem you refuse to acknowledge how much of hypocrite you were in your failed attempt to be a “pastor”. I know you live in a fantasy world but you should at least admit that you didn’t have any problem lying to people for decades. What makes you think you’ve got it right now?
You mention how helpful you’ve been to people now… Just another fantasy. If you are wrong, which you are, what makes you believe you’re not lying again? Not that you care. You obviously never have. It is [sic] been “status quo” for you for your entire life. You just exchanged one fantasy for another. I’m just trying to get you to admit your failures. If you really want to get into the details. I’m here.
You missed the point of reference to your creation (website) in comparison to what is around you. Baby steps….
Why do you feel important through your own “creation” attempts in your website and not recognize just how much better…. things are around you? Not calling God down at the moment. I’ll talking about being “self aware”. Do you realize just how weak you are at every level of existence? You don’t need God to understand this. You just need to be honest with yourself. Now go ahead. Tell me how wonderful you are. I suppose that children and grandchildren of you will remember you forever.
As you can see, nothing I said changed this person’s mind. His goal is not to meaningfully interact with me. Instead, he wants to wound me emotionally and psychologically. He is, after all, an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB). Eviscerating people is in their DNA. Just go read the Fundamental Forums Fighting Forum if you doubt my assertion. Note the discussion threads started by treasure_unseen. Over the years, I have engaged thousands of people through this site, via comments, email, and social media. If I had to pick one group of people to be the definition of Christian Assholes, it is IFB pastors, evangelists, missionaries, college professors, and garden variety church members. There’s just something about their beliefs and psychological make-up that turns them into vile, cruel people (and I speak broadly). Granted, I know a number of IFB leaders who are not as I describe here, but I am beginning to think that they are the exception rather than the rule.
When I look at my own life as an IFB preacher, I don’t see a man who was unkind or unloving. I genuinely cared about the people I pastored. I went out of my way to minister to them spiritually and temporally. However, I must also admit that many of my beliefs and my preaching caused psychological harm.
I have long argued that Evangelicalism causes emotional, and, at times, physical harm. It is not a benign religion. I have also argued that Evangelicalism is inherently Fundamentalist. (Please see Are Evangelicals Fundamentalists?) That said, Evangelicalism is a spectrum. On the one extreme, you have people with decidedly liberal/progressive political and theological views. These people are Evangelical in name only, and politically and theologically are much more like mainline Christians than Evangelicals. On the other extreme, we have groups such as the IFB church movement, of which the aforementioned emailer is a member. This end of the spectrum is defined by theological, political, and social rigidity. While this rigidity can be found along the Evangelical spectrum, the IFB church movement is vocal in its demand that True Christians live according to the one true IFB faith.
This rigidity breeds certainty and arrogance, and, unfortunately, it turns people into unloving, unkind assholes. Some of the readers of this blog are former IFB pastors, evangelists, missionaries, and church members. If asked, they can provide countless stories about the ugly nature of the IFB church movement. Many of you have no experience with IFB churches and pastors. I hope, by publicizing this man’s emails, readers can see the ugliness for themselves. This man is not an anomaly, the exception to the rule. He is not, in any way, “unique.” Sadly, men (and women) such as he can be found in countless IFB pulpits and pews all across America. The best thing anyone can do when coming in contact with the IFB church movement is to run!
This is my last post on this man. He has nothing constructive to offer me or the readers of this blog. Slander, lies, and nastiness seem to be his MO, and I, for one, don’t want to spend any more time on such people.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I’ve been reading Bruce Gerencser’s website https://brucegerencser.net/. If you don’t know him, it is rather interesting read.
Yet, he has something in common with those he references. He has feel [sic] into the trap of abandoning God instead of men. Which really is one of the main “trials of faith” that every son of God goes through. Sooner or later, you’re going to have to choose God….. if you’re going to find peace with Him.
This happens often with intellectual people that rightfully spot problems that Christians just refuse to recognize. People like many of the people here in this forum. I learned a long time that what people SAY about God is much different than what God has said about Himself. I decided to know the difference. He, like many others, doesn’t really want to know the difference.
Situations like this fall into the category that Paul referenced in
Rom 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
Rom 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you
The empty twisted teachings that you find among the average “church member” just isn’t intellectually sound….. and the average person doesn’t have any idea how to change. They keep saying what they’ve been told and it just keeps failing.
Question, what would you say to a person like this?
I am rather disappointed that only one person “bit” and replied. Typically, the members of the Fundamental Forum — current and former Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB) — love eviscerating those who leave the one “true” faith or are no longer considered Fundamentalist Christians.
That said, someone who used an admin email address associated with Fundamental Forums sent me the following email:
Some observations. We have things in common. Not that means much of anything. I see that you enjoying pointing out anecdotal statements expect for when you employ them yourself.
I’ve read some of your website, but I have seen very little that makes you unique and oh how we must be unique. We are both grey. You have me by a few years but who knows how that will end up….. We are both sarcastic. We have both lied and been lied to so many times we can’t honestly blame someone else or adequately defend ourselves as being worthy of followers. I see that you’ve tried that before but you really haven’t given up. You just draw a different crowd now. I imagine just as you once lied to your congregation to gather their approval, you know lie to your current “flock” to gather the same thrill you once had.
It is rather obvious that you enjoy an intellectual battle and you feel as if you’re better at it than anyone else. I’d like to chance to prove you wrong. Do you want to let our “egos” do the talking…… I find it amazing that any intellectual can build a website such as you’ve built, taking pleasure in your accomplishments, as feeble as they are……..at yet fail to recognize the majestic qualities surrounding your life.
If ANY intellectual would honestly compare your website to what God has written all around you…. You must admit that you just can’t compare. Yet, you recognize your own work at the expense of another. So weak and fleeting is your pleasure. Which is really life’s lesson you fail to recognize. Standing “fist clinched” in the face of overwhelming insignificance you possess. You must recognize you are powerless to produce anything lasting and effective by any measure of common sense. Just what good is love if it ends. Just what good is peace if it fails you? You take pleasure in the fleeting moments of your paltry website not considering its inevitable end.
I noticed that you failed to adequately express your hatred for the historical Jesus? Why? Fear? I know, how dare….. whomever….I’m sure you feel contempt rising to your lips or keyboard. I know what I know. If you’ve ever made a real emotional connection with Jesus Christ, it is more than fear. It goes the very root of what you became. So step back, and with unfeigned contempt throw your last ditch hatred at the imaginary…… Can you really do that? Does your intellect fail you?
The person who emailed me (using an admin account from Fundamental Forum) uses the word “intellectual” to describe me — more on that in a moment — as does the person who started the discussion thread on Fundamental Forums. This leads me to conclude that these people are likely one and the same, though they could be two different people.
My short response to this Christian would be to call him a judgmental prick. However, that would hardly make him “unique,” right?” Many IFB pastors, evangelists, and congregants are known for being arrogant, self-righteous, judgmental assholes, so this man is just another garden-variety Bible thumper. That said, I do want to respond to his email.
First, this man says I am not “unique.” I don’t believe I have ever said that I am. I am just one man with a story to tell. That my story resonates with thousands and thousands of people suggests that more than a few people find my writing “unique.” However, I would never say that about myself.
Second, this man incorrectly asserts that I lied to the congregations I pastored, and I continue to lie today to readers of this blog. He provides no evidence for this claim. I don’t believe I have ever deliberately lied to church members or the people who frequent this site. Have I ever lied? Sure. That said, lying is the exception to the rule for me. I always try to be open, honest, and forthright.
Over the past 17 years, I have had several Evangelical Christians accuse me of lying about my past or withholding the “true” story of the Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser. One man even went so far as to say that I had never pastored a church here in rural northwest Ohio; that he had talked to people who lived in this area and they had never heard of me. Not much I can do about such ignorance and stupidity. I pastored and worked for three churches in northwest Ohio: Montpelier Baptist Church in Montpelier, Olive Branch Christian Union Church in Fayette, and Our Father’s House in West Unity. Just the facts, ma’am, just the facts.
Third, my goal as an Evangelical pastor was to evangelize the lost, teach the saved, and minister to the needs of the congregations I pastored. To suggest that I did these things just for the “thrill” of it or just to attract a crowd is ludicrous. Methinks there is a lot of projection going on in this man’s email to me. I, of course, can’t know that, but I would never send him an email making ill-informed assertions. My mama taught me better manners than that.
Fourth, this man calls me an “intellectual.” I guess that, coming from a guy who is part of a movement where an intellectual is someone who owns more than five books and has a ninth-grade education, I should take this as a compliment.
Three IFB Preachers Seeing Who Has the Largest Church
This man challenges me to a dick-measuring contest of sorts, but I won’t oblige him. Back in the early days of this blog, I would engage in such “discussions,” but I quickly learned that such people are only interested in hearing themselves talk. Thus, to quote the Bible, I don’t cast my pearls before swine. He’s free to say what he will about me on Fundamental Forum, social media, or start up a blog of his own dedicated to taking down the man, myth, and legend, the Most Reverend Bruce Gerencser. If this man chooses the latter route, he will find that running a widely read, successful blog is hard work. Really hard work.
Fifth, this man states that if ANY (his emphasis) intellectual would honestly (IFB Greek for “agree with me”) compare my writing to what God has written, he or she would have to admit that there is no comparison. According to him, what God has written wins hands down every time. I will leave it to the “intellectuals” on this site to judge whether God is a better writer than I am. All I know to do is write in such a way that people will find my work insightful, informative, helpful, and, at times, funny. The Bible certainly can be all of those things, but I would hardly say that it is uniformly so. And I most certainly wouldn’t say that the Bible was written by God. I am, after all, an “intellectual.” I have read numerous books about the text of the Protestant Christian Bible. Claiming the Bible was written by anyone but fallible, frail humans is absurd — “inconsistent with reason, logic or common sense; incongruous or inviting mockery” (TheSage VII English Dictionary and Thesaurus). One need only read one, two or ten of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books to learn that the Bible is of human origin.
Sixth, this man says that he noticed that I “failed to adequately express my hatred for the historical Jesus.” Hmm, let’s see. The historical Jesus is dead. He died almost 2,000 years ago and his bones are buried in an unknown grave. Why in the world would I “hate” an ancient dead man? “I hate you, Nero!” How dumb is that, right? Now, if you ask me if I hate, despise, and loathe Donald Trump? Guilty as charged. But, Jesus? He is but a character in an ancient, largely fictional, collection of books. My objection has always been directed at Evangelicalism itself, not the deity its adherents claim to worship. Anyone who has actually read Why I Hate Jesus knows this.
To suggest that I fear a dead man is — dare I say it again — absurd. I reject the central claims of Christianity. I have no reason to fear Jesus. What’s he going to do? Rise up from his grave and beat me up for saying bad things about him and his followers? Child, please. If I fear anyone, it’s armed, pickup-driving, white supremacist, Christian nationalists. But, Jesus? Nope.
I have no idea why this man wants me to, with “unfeigned contempt,” throw “hatred” at the dead Jesus. Is he trying to bait me into committing the unpardonable sin, thus justifying his judgmental email? Sorry, but I have already done that. Has he not read Hebrews 6:4-6?
For it is impossible for those [Bruce Gerencser] who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,If they [Bruce Gerencser] shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he [Bruce Gerencser] be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [Bruce Gerencser] hold the truth in unrighteousness;Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them [Bruce Gerencser]; for God hath shewed it unto them [Bruce Gerencser].For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they [Bruce Gerencser] are without excuse:Because that, when they [Bruce Gerencser] knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.Professing themselves [Bruce Gerencser] to be wise, they became fools,And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.Wherefore God also gave them [Bruce Gerencser] up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.For this cause God gave them [Bruce Gerencser] up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.And even as they [Bruce Gerencser] did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:Who [Bruce Gerencser] knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Man, this Bruce Gerencser dude is in a world of shit. That is, IF there is a God, IF that God is the Christian deity, IF the Bible is the Word of God. I am confident that not one of these claims is true. I am convinced that this life is the only one any of us has, and once we draw our last breath, that’s it.
Let me conclude this post with the advice I give readers on the About page:
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
After two short stints pastoring Community Baptist Church in Elmendorf, Texas (1994) and Olive Branch Christian Union Church (1995) in Fayette, Ohio, I started a Sovereign Grace Baptist congregation called Grace Baptist Church in West Unity, Ohio. Several years later, we would change the church’s name to Our Father’s House to better reflect our inclusiveness.
When I started Grace Baptist Church, I was a five-point Calvinist, not much different theologically from my description in part three of this series. I remained a Calvinist until the late 1990s, at which time my theology and political beliefs began lurching leftward. The church changed its name and I began to focus more on inclusivism and good works. During this time, my theology moved from a Calvinistic/Reformed viewpoint to more of a liberal/progressive Mennonite perspective. Much of my preaching focused on the good works every Christian should be doing and the church’s responsibility to minister to the sick, poor, and marginalized.
As my preaching moved leftward, so did my politics. By the time I left Our Father’s House in July of 2002, I no longer politically identified as a Republican. The single biggest change in my beliefs came when I embraced pacifism. The seeds of pacifism were sown years before when the United States immorally attacked Iraq in the first Iraq War. I opposed this war, and as I began reading authors such as Thomas Merton,Dorothy Day, John Howard Yoder, Gandhi, and Eileen Egan, I concluded that all war was immoral.
By the time of the Y2K scare:
I was preaching inclusivism, encouraging interaction and work with all who claimed the Christian moniker.
I was preaching a works-centered, lifestyle-oriented gospel. Gone was the emphasis on being “born again” or making a public profession of faith. In particular, I focused on the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount.
I believed the institutional, organized Christian church was hopelessly broken and increasingly indifferent toward the needs of the poor and marginalized.
I was a committed, vocal pacifist, opposing all war on moral grounds. I remain a pacifist to this day.
In 2003, I pastored Victory Baptist Church — a Southern Baptist congregation in the central Michigan community of Clare — for seven months. Both Polly and I agree that we never should have moved to Clare. It was a wasted seven months (more on that in a future post) that ended with me resigning from the church. This was the last church I pastored.
While I was pastor of Victory Baptist, a friend of mine from Ohio came to visit us. From 1991-1994, he had been a member of the church I pastored in Somerset, Ohio. After listening to me preach, he told me that he was astounded by how much my preaching had changed, how liberal it had become. And he was right. While my preaching was orthodox theologically, my focus had dramatically changed.
In 2004, Polly and I moved to Yuma, Arizona. We lived in Yuma for almost seven months. We then moved to Newark Ohio, where we lived for ten months. In July of 2005, we moved back to the northwest Ohio community of Bryan. In May of 2007, we bought a house in Ney, Ohio where we currently live.
As you can see, we did a lot of moving over four years. We were restless seekers. Every place we lived, we diligently, Sunday after Sunday, Wednesday after Wednesday, visited local churches in hopes of finding a spiritual home. Instead of finding a home, we increasingly became dissatisfied and disillusioned. We concluded that, regardless of the name over the door, churches were pretty much all the same. Dysfunctional, incestuous, focused inward, entertainment/program driven, resembling social clubs far more than the church Jesus purportedly built. This would prove to be the emotional factor that drove me to investigate thoroughly the theological claims of Christianity and the teachings of the Bible. This investigation ultimately led to my deconversion in 2008.
From 2004-2007, Polly and I visited over a hundred churches of numerous sects:
Some Sundays, we attended the services of three different churches. We also attended Wednesday prayer meetings (all poorly attended) and a fair number of special services such as revival meetings during the week.
The most astounding thing from our travels through Christendom is the realization that most pastors don’t care if people visit their churches. Less than 10% of the churches we visited made any contact with us after we visited. Only a handful visited us in our home without us asking them to do so.
In November of 2008, I told Polly that I was no longer a Christian, and that I no longer believed the central tenets of the Christian religion. Not long after, Polly came to a similar conclusion. In 2009, I wrote my infamous letter, A Letter to Family, Friends, and Former Parishioners. This letter was my official coming out. Later in 2009, a former parishioner, friend, and pastor of a Christian Union church came to see me in hopes of rescuing me. I later wrote him a letter. You can read the letter here.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
