Several years ago, my wife’s cousin, and an Evangelical pastor in Newark, Ohio, posted the following on Facebook:
Do not be fooled! Class warfare, rioting, racism, defunding police, expansive government programs…these are the building blocks to socialism. These are reasons so many flee to America!!
I have known Polly’s cousin for over forty-four years. He was the ring-bearer in our wedding in 1978. Andy is an affable guy, the only preacher in Polly’s family that I get along with. We have had numerous conversations over the years. Never an angry word, though we have disagreed many, many times.
After reading Andy’s anti-socialism comment, I decided to respond, hoping that I could educate him about socialism, specifically democratic socialism. I suspect that I am the only atheist socialist Andy knows. The conversation quickly deteriorated when a friend of Andy’s named Tim — an Evangelical know-it-all, if there ever was one — decided to hijack the discussion and attack my atheism. He quickly started talking about evolution and morality, and even went so far as to tell me that I was an agnostic, not an atheist.
Long-time readers likely know what I told this man: fuck off! In fact, I told him to fuck off twice. The discussion was about socialism, but he wanted to make it about me and my atheism. I refused to play, and here’s his final comment to me (paragraphs added for readability. Grammar and spelling as written).
Last comment, then tomorrow when i get up I will just block you; since you do not want to debate.
you are angry because evangelicals make truth claims. yet you are making truth claims also. there is a saying. everyone has a right to their opinion, but only those who are correct have a right for their opinion to be true.
socalism is the start of communism and nazism. socalism has always harmed the poor and middle class, and makes politicians rich royal leaders. socalism always worships government, as everyone has to worship something. you know it. thus why you attack me, for pointing out truth.
Last, there is truth. there is a creator. there is a God, and that God is the one true God of the Bible. I pray that you meet him one day, before you die; as that will be too late. if you truly seek truth there are hundreads of books taht not only show the truth of what I am saying, but gives all the evidence inside and outside of the Bible for what I am saying. the best, for someone that truthly seeks truth, is evidence that demands a verdict.
I pray one day you seek the truth and realize that it is not what you claim it to be.
Just another day in the alternate universe called Evangelicalism. That this man thinks Josh McDowell’s book, Evidence That Demands a Verdict, is the best book for someone like me shows that he doesn’t really know much about agnosticism and atheism, nor does he know anything about my background. McDowell’s arguments have been debunked numerous times. Had I thought this man had a rational, skeptical bone in his body, I might have engaged him, but since he doesn’t, I chose not to cast my candy bars before pigs.
The only thing that offended me was his claim that I am an agnostic, not an atheist. He refused to let me self-identify as an atheist. In his mind, agnostic and atheist are two different things. Had he been open to thoughtful, rational discussion, I would have educated him about why many professed atheists are agnostics and atheists. I have talked about this issue numerous times on this site. Some strong atheists disagree with me on the matter, but claiming to be an agnostic and an atheist is certainly within the orthodox pale of the most holy atheist religion. Yet, this knucklehead thinks atheism is a religion. Whatcha gonna do when faced with someone who thinks he knows everything, yet knows very little? At this point in my quickly fading life, “fuck you” seems to be an appropriate response.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Many Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches have what are commonly called staff or worker standards. These rules strictly regulate what church staff and church workers wear, how they look, and how they behave. Some churches even require staff members and workers to sign their names to these rules, thus signifying an agreement between them and the church. Not abiding by these rules usually results in loss of employment or loss of ministry opportunities. All too often the offender is labeled rebellious or a backslider and run out of the church.
In the fall of 1979, I resigned from Montpelier Baptist Church in rural northwest Ohio and moved to the central Ohio community of Newark with my wife and newborn child. Polly’s maternal uncle, the late James (Jim) Dennis, pastored the Newark Baptist Temple — a hardcore IFB institution. Polly’s father, Lee, was the church’s assistant pastor. We planned to join the Baptist Temple and serve the Lord there while waiting on God to direct us to our next ministry opportunity. (Please see The Family Patriarch is Dead: My Life With James Dennis.)
The church needed someone to oversee its bus ministry (unpaid). I thought, at the time, that doing this would be a perfect opportunity to put my Bible college training and skills to work. Instead, Pastor Dennis told me that he couldn’t give the position to me because it would look like he was playing favorites with family. Later behavior would suggest that his real problem was with me personally. Numerous other family members would work for the Baptist Temple, just not Bruce Gerencser. This initial bit of conflict between us led to four decades of what can best be described as an adversarial relationship. I suspect that the root of the problem traces back to the fact that Pastor Dennis did not want Polly to marry me, and neither did Jim’s wife, nor Polly’s mother. Yet, here we are, forty-six years later.
Granted, I was a contrarian, not afraid to speak my mind. This put me in the doghouse more than a few times. Let me give you a couple of examples related to church staff and church worker standards. I taught Sunday School, drove a bus on Sunday, and helped do mechanical work on the busses during the week. Polly worked in the nursery, sang in the choir, and worked for the church’s non-licensed daycare. She later taught one year of third grade for the church’s non-accredited school, Licking County Christian Academy. At the time, I was a general manager for Arthur Treacher’s in Reynoldsburg, and later part of a new store management team that opened stores for Long John Silver’s in Zanesville, Heath, and Westerville
As workers at the Baptist Temple, we were annually required to read and sign the church’s standards. Polly quickly signed, but I refused to do so. I thought then, and still do, that it was manipulative (and stupid) to demand people sign the standards; that the only person I was accountable to was God. My “rebellion,” of course, caused quite a stir in the church. “Poor Polly,” people thought. “Bruce needs to get right with God!” The real issue wasn’t my “heart,” as much as it was my refusal to play by Pastor Dennis’ rules.
Pastor Dennis’ church standards regulated everything from the length of hair, facial hair, what women and men could wear clothing-wise, and what entertainments people could participate in. The spouses and children of staff and church workers were expected to obey these rules too.
Refusing to sign caused a huge rift between Pastor Dennis and me, one that never healed. Because I refused to sign, I was removed as a Sunday School teacher. Ironically, I was still allowed to drive busses and repair them during the week. Nothing changed for Polly. I suspect this was because Polly was so quiet and passive, and I was so outgoing and outspoken, that people saw me as Polly’s overlord and Polly as a wife who dutifully followed her husband’s edicts. To this day, some family members refuse to see that Polly has come into her own; that the only “boss” in her life is herself. Some ill-informed Evangelical family and friends think that Polly is an unbeliever only because I am; that once I die, she will come running back to Jesus and the IFB church movement. Boy, are they in for a big surprise.
During our time in Newark, I played recreational basketball at least three times a week. During the winter, I would play basketball at the YMCA or join other church men for games at local school gymnasiums. During the summer, I would, after work, join my fellow manager, Neal Ball, at local playgrounds for pick-up basketball games (I also played softball). One day, I drove over to the Baptist Temple to pick Polly up from work. She was working for the church’s daycare, Temple Tots, at the time. I was wearing gym shorts — remember the short shorts of that era — a ratty tee-shirt, white socks, and Converse tennis shoes. As I walked into the church building, Pastor Dennis saw me. Like a bull charging a red cape, Jim came towards me, letting me know that I couldn’t enter the building dressed as I was. He was livid, and so was I. How dare he respond to me like this! I was just there to pick up my wife. He stomped off, as did I. He later let Polly know that I was not allowed to enter the building again unless I was dressed properly.
One night, we were at Polly’s parents’ home when Pastor Dennis stopped over for some reason. Polly’s dad was still the church’s assistant pastor, though they had cut his pay and forced him to work a factory job to make ends meet. (The Baptist Temple was notorious for paying poor wages, including paying married women less than men.) Polly’s sister was living at home at the time. She worked for a nearby nursing home. Kathy, dressed for work, came down the stairs while Pastor Dennis was standing at the front door. He looked up, and much to his horror, saw that Kathy was wearing pants! OMG, right? The good pastor quickly became angry, and with a loud voice lectured Kathy and her mom and dad over the evils of women wearing pants, and that Kathy, as the daughter of the church’s assistant pastor, was required to obey the church’s standard. According to Jim, this was to be the first and last time Kathy wore pants. It wasn’t.
The standards haven’t changed much at the Newark Baptist Temple. Men can now have hair that is a bit longer and are permitted to have facial hair, but the dress standard for staff and church workers remains as rigid and legalistic as ever.
While the Baptist Temple seems extreme to the uninitiated, such rules are not uncommon in IFB churches and colleges. The standards at the Baptist Temple were similar to the rules at the IFB college Polly and I attended — Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan. Pastor Dennis was a 1960s graduate of Midwestern and was later given an honorary doctorate by the college. It should come as no surprise that his rigid legalism matched that of Tom Malone and his alma mater. Polly’s father was also a Midwestern alum.
Several years ago, someone posted the male platform standard for the North Platte Baptist Church in North Platte, Nebraska. The church is pastored by William Reeves. (Two of six church staff positions are held by Reeves’ children — nepotism at its best.) I have written about Reeves and his church before:
If a man wants to be on the platform — the dog and pony show stage — at North Platte Baptist, he is required to dress and look a certain way:
I don’t know the context of the Twitter exchange between pastors William Reeves and Andrew Sluder — pastor of Bible Baptist Church in Asheville, North Carolina. Both men are arrogant, self-righteous pastors who are proud that their IFB dicks are bigger than those of other preachers. What I want to bring attention to is not dick size, but the requirements at North Platte Baptist for any man appearing on the church’s stage.
All men must:
wear a suit, a tie, and a white shirt
wear polished, clean dress shoes
be clean-shaven
Men are not permitted to wear necklaces or bracelets, nor are they to have a beard or mustache of any kind.
Sound crazy or bizarre? Trust me, in the IFB church movement, such standards are quite common.
Keep in mind that these are Pastor Reeves’ rules. He is the CEO, king, and potentate of North Platte Baptist. His word is the law, and those who refuse to play by his rules aren’t welcome.
I find it interesting that the church’s platform standard says that men who have facial hair are not trustworthy and lacking in personal character. Wow! I wonder if they realize that Jesus, the apostles, and the Apostle Paul all likely had facial hair, and that some of the preachers revered by IFB pastors, say Charles Spurgeon, had facial hair. Even God has a beard. I have seen his picture.
And here’s the thing, North Platte Baptist and other IFB churches have lots and lots of rules and regulations governing congregant/staff dress, appearance, and behavior. Rarely are these standards made known to new attendees. Better to hook them first with fake “love and kindness” before letting unwary attendees know, as Paul Harvey would say, “the rest of the story.”
Did you attend an IFB church? Did the church have specific requirements for staff and workers? Did the church have a platform standard? Please share your experiences in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
As Polly will admit, she was grossly unprepared and unqualified to teach school, but LCCA needed a teacher and we needed the money, so Polly dutifully tried to manage a class of third graders. (Polly was paid less money because she was a woman; not her family’s breadwinner.)
After Polly left LCCA, we helped her father start an IFB church in Buckeye Lake, Ohio. In the spring of 1983, Polly learned that a student of hers, Eddie Linders was alleging that he had suffered serious physical injuries after being beaten up by fellow student, Stan Toomey. Linders’ parents sued LCCA, the Baptist Temple, Toomey’s parents, and Polly — as the boys’ teacher.
The 1983 lawsuit was dismissed. I was unable to find any news report on the original suit. The lawsuit was refiled in 1985.
The Newark Advocate reported on April 5, 1985 (behind paywall):
Lawsuit seeks $2.6 Million in Damages
A former Licking Countian has filed a $2.6 million suit in Common Pleas Court, seeking damages from the family of a boy she claims beat her son several times during April and May of 1981. Patricia Nelson, of Brooksville. Fla., filed suit Thursday on behalf of her 14-year-old son, Edwin. Ms. Nelson alleges Stan Toomey of Alexandria beat her son up while they were both students of the Licking County Christian Academy, run by the Newark Baptist Temple. She filed an earlier version of the suit in 1983, but it was dismissed March 15 of this year. Ms. Nelson seeks $1.6 million in compensatory damages and $1 million in punitive, damages from the Toomey youth and his parents, Mr. and Mrs. Earl Toomey, of 4472 Lobdell Road, Alexandria, and Polly Gerencser, of the Emanuel Baptist Church, Buckeye Lake. Ms. Gerencser was a teacher at the school at the time of the alleged incidents and should have controlled Toomey’s behavior, Ms. Nelson said. She also seeks to hold his parents responsible While Thursday’s suit does not enumerate Linders’ injuries, the first claim said he suffered from dislocation of the vertebra, swollen legs, bruises and head injuries. Ms. Nelson seeks a jury trial.
This suit was also tossed out of court. According to Polly, she wasn’t even in the classroom when the alleged assaults occurred, and best she can remember, all the Toomey boy had was a bloody nose. Besides being sued for $2.6 million, what was most irritating about this lawsuit was the fact that Pastor Dennis — remember, he’s Polly’s uncle — didn’t bother to tell us about the suit. We read about it in the newspaper. Needless to say, we weren’t happy.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Evangelicals “say” they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. He is their teacher and guide, giving them everything necessary for life and godliness. Galatians 5:22,23 says the fruit (evidence) of the Spirit is
Love
Joy
Peace
Longsuffering
Gentleness
Goodness
Faith
Meekness
Temperance
in the lives of believers. People say they are followers of Jesus, yet when you examine their lives for evidence of the fruit of the Spirit, they are sorely lacking, if not altogether bereft of any evidence of God living inside of them. The evidence of true faith is not what you believe, but how you live. Jesus had a lot to say about how Christians should treat their enemies. It seems that most Evangelical Bibles are missing the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7 and Matthew 25).
Think about the countless Evangelical apologists who have commented on this site, contacted me on social media, or emailed me directly. What conclusion would we come to if we judged them by their works (fruit)?
Yesterday, I wrote a heartfelt, personal post about my health problems and my struggles with suicidal thoughts. Readers responded as decent, thoughtful people would; with love, kindness, and compassion. Of course, Revival Fires and Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, weighed in too, but their words lacked empathy.
3. We thought we gave BG [Bruce Gerencser] a reason to live 🙂
BG [Bruce Gerencser] whines in another post about why he has not taken his own life. He thinks about it because of all the pain he is in and all the medical problems he has. Now he has to face an operation and we do not gloat or make fun of these troubles.
While we [I] thought we [I] were [was] giving him good motivation to live. In atheists’ minds, there are few better reasons to live than to attack a Christian fundamentalist or EvangelicaL [sic] Seriously, he lists some very good reasons why he endures the pain and ailments he suffers from.
In our [my] hearts today, we [I] feel empathy for him and wish we [I] had the gift of healing. Then we [I] would ask God to heal BG for pure reasons, one being to finally show BG that God exists. Since we [I] do not have that gift, we [I] ask those who do to prayerfully consider bringing God’s healing to BG [Bruce Gerencser].
It would be nice to see him have a pain and sick-free end of life and make the quality of his life better. We hold nothing against BG [Bruce Gerencser] or MM [Ben Berwick] and do not want to see them come to any harm. For those who have doubts about doing this, I remind them of the example Jesus provided. People brought their suffering friends and loved ones to Jesus and he healed them all.
BG [Bruce Gerencser] qualifies for healing because he is not excluded from the term ‘everyone’. It may be too late for BG [Bruce Gerencser] and his wife to return to the faith, but his healing would greatly influence his children and grandchildren giving them the opportunity to see that God exists and make the right decision to go to heaven.
Right out of the gate, Thiessen says I am whining about my pain and suffering. Anything he says after this is meaningless. Who says to a sick, dying man, “Stop whining”? Thiessen has repeatedly hurled the “whining” accusation at me over the past three years. Any openness and honesty about the physical difficulties I face is whining in his book.
Thiessen says he is not gloating or making fun of me, but he is not being honest. He believes my pain and suffering are God’s way of getting my attention or punishing me. (Jesus could email or text me.) It is far more likely that Thiessen prays, “Pour it on, Jesus.”
Thiessen says he would pray for my healing, but since he doesn’t have the “gift of healing,” he can’t do so. He asks Christians with the “gift of healing to pray for me.”
This is a testable claim. Readers know that I have fibromyalgia, gastroparesis, exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, osteoarthritis, numerous herniated discs, and other structural problems in my cervical, thoracic, and lumbar spine. I have a tear in my right shoulder labrum, diabetes, and high blood pressure. I have plenty of problems for Jesus to work with. With God all things are possible, so if Christians with the ‘gift of healing” prayed for me, I’m certain God answer their prayers.
Thiessen is right. God healing me would be a big deal. So pray away, Christians. If God answers your prayers and heals me, I will renounce my atheism and return to Christianity. If God doesn’t help me, I will assume that either God isn’t listening to your prayers or he doesn’t exist. I have prayed thousands of prayers for my healing, without success. My partner, Polly, has prayed for my deliverance too. Still more crickets. It’s hard not to conclude that God is either pissed off at me, or he doesn’t exist. My money is on the latter.
In June, Thiessen wrote thirty posts about me and/or my British friend, Ben Berwick. Can anyone say “obsessed”? I offered to send Thiessen a semi-nude photo of me wearing my rainbow suspenders. He could either put my picture on his bedroom ceiling or his nightstand. Both of us have written posts that mention Thiessen, but our posts are responses to his incessant personal attacks or misuse of our content. If Thiessen would stop stealing our content and move on to other subjects or people, neither of us would mention him again. Trust me, contrary to Thiessen’s delusions, responding to him doesn’t give me a reason to live.
Thiessen has permitted me to share his email address: kinship29@yahoo.com. Since Thiessen doesn’t allow comments on his blog and doesn’t have a contact page, I encourage readers to send him an email and let him know what you think about his writing. 🙂
Yes, maybe whining was too strong of a word but his content comes across as major whining to us. After all these years, one would think he had adjusted and could talk about something different than his pain, illnesses, and the fact that he was in the church for 50 years, etc., etc.
One does not have to whine to be open and honest but his Type A personality may not let him tone it down some. Maybe it would do him some good to learn that he is not the only one who suffers from chronic illnesses and pain.
We do not mean anything bad by our terminology but we are sure, he took it that way. We have been told the same thing for years starting from many decades ago so it is a casual comment to us.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Recent allegations of sexual misconduct by notable Evangelical pastors have led to a lot of controversy and outrage among Evangelicals. Such behavior is not new, so I am wondering where the outrage was years ago when Evangelical and Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preachers were accused of rape, sexual assault, and other heinous crimes? Better late than never, I suppose.
Robert Morris, the pastor of Gateway Church in Southlake, Texas — a megachurch with over 25,000 members — was recently accused of and admitted to sexually assaulting a 12-year-old girl in the 1980s. The abuse went on for several years. Church leaders knew about Morris’ sordid past, believing he had an inappropriate relationship with a “young woman” — as if, somehow this is better. Now that leadership knows the “truth,” they are expressing their own outrage over Morris’ crimes — and yes, his behavior was criminal, even if he cannot be prosecuted due to the statute of limitations. Give me a break. These are the same leaders that should have fired Morris on the spot, but let him resign instead. They, themselves should either immediately resign, or be booted out of office.
Central to this story is the church handling the original sexual abuse allegation in-house. Morris’ crime should have been immediately reported to law enforcement, both by the girl’s parents and the church board. That they chose to keep the abuse secret and slap Morris on the hands after he promised to never touch the cookie jar again is inexcusable.
I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years. Twenty-five of those years were spent pastoring churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. I saw a lot of stuff swept under the rug, so much so that the rug is now 20 feet high. Since 2007, I have been an advocate for people who have been sexually assaulted and abused by Evangelical preachers. I have posted over 1,000 stories in the Black Collar Crime Series — a series that focuses primarily on sex crimes committed by preachers and other church leaders. These stories must get wide exposure. Why? Denominations, churches, and preachers do everything in their power to bury these stories, including not reporting sex crimes, as they are required to do by law in most states. All that matters to them is protecting the church’s name and testimony. They know that exposure leads to membership loss, which leads to income loss, which leads to loss of power. Victims/survivors don’t matter; the church does. And that’s why churches handle allegations themselves, hoping to keep offenders from being arrested or publicly outed. If allegations can’t be swept under the proverbial rug, criminal preachers are quietly encouraged to resign or retire. When a big-name preacher all of a sudden resigns, saying God is leading them somewhere else, the first question should be “Why?” None of that “God leading” nonsense. More often than not, the real reason is criminal in nature, or at the very least, conduct that should disqualify a man from the ministry.
Churches should NEVER be permitted to investigate sexual abuse claims in-house. Let me illustrate why. What follows is a quote from an Evangelical preacher about Morris’ assaulting a 12-year-old girl and how Gateway Church should have handled the woman’s allegations. In his mind, his “advice” applies to all Evangelical churches. I should note that this man is a notorious defender of men accused of sex crimes, often attacking victims in his defense of despicable, vile so-called men of God.
We [I] disagree with this move [appointing an outside firm to investigate] because the law firm is not skilled or experienced in sexual assaults or their investigations (we looked them up) and they are not believers. Will they apply the Bible correctly or merely be lazy and do what they did to Mr. [Ravi] Zacharias and create a very one-sided, biased report that avoided the truth?
Since church people are involved, then the Bible has jurisdiction and a prominent role in guiding the investigation. If it is left out we can be assured that the truth may not be heard but subjective opinion will be published.
Christians should not be afraid to practice true justice and do biblically guided investigations as the opinion of the unbeliever does not matter. What matters is that all of scripture is followed correctly and not followed to show people they are being spiritual in these matters.
Obeying God is more important than appeasing unbelievers, especially those who make false claims and bear false witness against believers. These words hold true when believers make accusations against other believers or unbelievers.
According to this man, since both the perpetrator and the victim are Christians, the church should investigate and render judgment. If law enforcement is involved, they must, according to him, follow the Bible. Fine, the Bible says adultery and fornication are capital crimes. I expect him to come out supporting the immediate stoning of Robert Morris. Of course, he thinks the victim is culpable too, so I suspect he would call for her stoning too.
Memo to this preacher: The United States is a secular nation. We are a people ruled and governed by laws. What the church says doesn’t matter. What the Bible says doesn’t matter. What does matter is the law and proper enforcement of said law. What does matter is justice. Obeying God, the church, or the Bible should play no part in our legal system. You are free to continue defending sexual predators, but this does leave me saying, The preacher doth protest too much, methinks.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.
Jonathan Elwing, pastor of Palm View First Baptist Church in Palmetto, Florida, stands accused of multiple counts of possession of child pornography. Palm View is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention and holds to Calvinistic theology. Elwing now faces over 20 counts of child pornography possession, including explicit images showing him sexually battering a two-year-old child.
Jonathan Edward Elwing, senior pastor of Palm View Baptist Church in Palmetto, was arrested June 21 on four counts of possession of child sexual abuse images.
The church, located on the southern edge of Tampa Bay, confirmed the arrest of Elwing, 43, on its Facebook page that same evening. Elwing resigned from the church prior to being arrested.
The church’s chairman of deacons told local news that Palm View had held several training sessions on identifying signs of sexual abuse. He added that Elwing, who according to online records began at the church in November 2019, followed a pastor who had been with the congregation for 41 years.
….
Manatee County Sheriff’s Office detectives received information the day prior that Elwing had used cryptocurrency to purchase the images online. Deputies found four “sexually explicit photos of children” on his cellphone Friday after executing a search warrant at his home and office. Elwing remains in custody at the Manatee County jail and is being held on $15,000 bond for each count.
The Conservative Baptist Network, of which Elwing was a member of the Florida state chapter leadership, released a statement on June 22.
“Upon learning of this news, he was immediately removed from the Network,” said Timothy Pigg, CBN network director. “I ask that you pray for the Palm View Baptist Church and Jonathan’s family.”
Manatee County Sheriff’s Office Internet Crimes Against Children detectives arrested a Palmetto pastor on June 21 for possession of child pornography. Tuesday, 14 more charges were filed against the pastor.
A former Florida pastor has received 14 additional charges in connection with a child sex abuse material case. Jonathan Elwing, now-formerly of Palm View First Baptist Church in Palmetto, Florida, was arrested after an investigation revealed that he allegedly used cryptocurrency to purchase child sex abuse material.
Elwing, 43, resigned as pastor of Palm View First Baptist Church before being taken into custody on Friday, June 21.
The new charges include six counts of possession of child pornography, six counts of use of a child in a sexual performance, and two counts of sexual battery on a person less than 12 years old—which is a capital offense.
lwing had previously been charged with four counts of possession of child pornography, bringing the total number of charges against him to 18.
….
Palm View First Baptist Church is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), and Elwing appears to have been invested in Southern Baptist denominational politics. He was a member of the Florida chapter of the Conservative Baptist Network (CBN), a group formed in 2020 to address what it believed to be “liberal drift” in the denomination.
Following the news of his arrest, Elwing’s membership was revoked.
Palm View First Baptist Church had also been featured on Founders Ministries’ list of “gospel-preaching, Christ-exalting” churches. Led by Florida SBC Pastor Tom Ascol, Founders is “committed to encouraging the recovery of the gospel and the biblical reformation of local churches.”
Elwing was a pastor at Palm View First First Baptist Church for the last few years, according to church leaders. He resigned from his position as senior pastor before his arrest on Friday.
….
The chairman of the deacons at the church said the search for a new head pastor will soon be getting underway. They are in the process of forming a committee to begin that search.
“We are under control, but quite in shock,” Deacon Larry Bianchi said. “Personally, I keep thinking it is a really bad dream, and I am going to wake up from it, but unfortunately, this happens in society. It happens more often than not in places where children can be seen.. There’s a lot of children in church. It is a bad, bad, bad situation my preacher has gotten himself into, but we are no longer associated with him. It is hard to say that, but we are no longer associated with him and we are going to have to go forward from there.”
The church leaders said they conducted background checks before hiring Elwing, and he moved to the Palmetto area after working as a pastor in the Florida Keys.
“Everybody is tempted and sometimes we give into that temptation and now we have to deal with the aftermath of it,” Bianco said. “I hope and pray to God that we react correctly, we keep Palm View strong in the neighborhood, and people might come to worship there if they choose. That is my want, and that is the want of the congregation of Palm View Baptist Church.”
Did the chairman of the deacon’s board really call Elwing’s alleged sex crimes “temptations?” Really? Does this deacon think this is a one-off, akin to the preacher getting caught in bed with the deacon’s wife? How stupid and naive can you be?
Jonathan Elwing, 43, a pastor from Palmetto, Florida, is facing a minimum sentence of life without parole over harrowing child rape allegations. However, due to an updated Florida death penalty law, he could receive capital punishment if convicted.
According to the Manatee County Sheriff’s Office, police initially charged the father of four with four counts of possessing child pornography for using cryptocurrency to buy explicit images of children from the dark web. Detectives began investigating Elwing after a crypto-currency company tipped them about the purchases.
Days later, police conducted a search warrant at Elwing’s home and the church where he pastored. On his cell phone, they found explicit images of him sexually battering a 2-year-old. The images included his face and made obvious the identity and age of the child, court records show.
A grand jury indicted Elwing on July 10 for sexual battery of a child. He faces a minimum sentence of life without parole if convicted, but prosecutors could also press for the death penalty under a 2023 Florida law that allows for the ultimate sentence for sexual battery of a child under the age of 12. Juries in Florida need just eight of the 12 to agree to executio
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.
Jonathan Shaheen, the former creative pastor at Timber Creek Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, was recently sentenced to two years in prison for the sexual exploitation of a child. Shaheen texted a woman about having sex with her and her children, ages nine and five. The mother sent Shaheen explicit photos of her children. Shaheen also sent her nude photos of himself, asking her to share them with the children.
A former Tri-Lakes area pastor was sentenced to two years in prison on Monday after pleading guilty to one count of sexual exploitation of a child.
Jonathan Shaheen, 31, was accused of receiving sexually explicit images of two underage girls — one 9 and the other 5 years old — from a couple in New Mexico in 2022, according to an arrest affidavit.
The affidavit states that Shaheen expressed interest via text message in having sexual intercourse with the two children as well as their mother, who was sending the photos to Shaheen.
The FBI discovered Shaheen’s contact with the couple in their cellphone while executing a search warrant at the New Mexico couple’s home.
Shaheen appeared in court Monday afternoon for a sentencing hearing, where Judge Jill Brady was tasked with determining if Shaheen would be given a prison sentence.
The terms of the plea agreement, according to prosecutor Blake Whitcomb, included the possibility of a two-year stint in the Department of Corrections or an extended stint on sex offender intensive supervised probation (SOISP) with no prison sentence.
Whitcomb, during the sentencing hearing, advocated strongly for Judge Brady to impose a prison sentence on Shaheen.
To outline the seriousness of Shaheen’s actions, Whitcomb read several of the messages sent by Shaheen to the victims’ mother to the court. In the highly graphic messages, Shaheen writes about his desire to have sexual relations with both of the victims; Whitcomb also notes that Shaheen was sent graphic photos of the victims and sent nude photos of himself that he asked the victims’ mother to show the victims.
Whitcomb also claimed that he believed it would be appropriate for Shaheen to serve a prison sentence due to a “clear” lack of remorse on his part.
“(Shaheen) has downplayed his involvement in this,” Whitcomb said to the court.
….
In a statement read to the court, Shaheen attempted to tell Brady that he was extremely remorseful for his actions, and that he wishes he had done something to report the New Mexico couple to police. Shaheen also talked to the court about how in his mind it was all “fantasy” and he had no intentions of acting upon the words he was sending to the New Mexico couple.
Shaheen’s attorney, Joshua Lindley, added that Shaheen’s evaluator recommended probation and labeled his client as low-risk of reoffending.
After hearing Shaheen’s lengthy statement, Brady decided that the accountability Shaheen was attempting to show was not enough.
“The accountability stops a little short in many ways,” Brady said. “I don’t think Mr. Shaheen fully grasps this.”
Speaking directly to Shaheen, Brady talked about how the defendant was a “very willing” participant in the crime, and expressing remorse over not reporting it to the police wasn’t enough.
Brady also addressed Shaheen’s statement that the texts were “just a fantasy,” disagreeing strongly with that claim.
“(The messages sent by Shaheen) really do not make it seem like it was just a fantasy,” Brady said.
Brady went on to sentence Shaheen to two years in the Department of Corrections with a mandatory three years parole upon release.
Shaheen was arrested by deputies just moments after Brady sentenced him.
According to a now deleted LinkedIn profile under the same name, Shaheen was employed as the general manager of the School of Rock in northern Colorado Springs and has worked as a pastor at TimberCreek Church.
Someone explain to me how in the world Shaheen only got a two-year sentence. Low risk of reoffending? Really?
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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According to Evangelicals, God is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. God is the creator of all things, the ruler and king of the universe. He is the first and the last, the alpha and omega. Nothing happens that isn’t according to God’s purpose and plan.
However, when these beliefs are challenged with examples such as child sexual abuse, all of a sudden, this God is helpless, powerless, and non-existent. When clerics sexually abuse, molest, and rape children, who’s to blame? If God is as described above, then he, ultimately is to blame for crimes committed against children. He could stop preachers from sexually molesting children, yet he is indifferent to their plight.
Some Evangelical preachers will argue that child sex crimes happen because of human sinfulness. “For all have sinned,” the Bible says. What sin or sins did children commit that justifies them being sexually assaulted by so-called men of God? I can’t think of any. Preachers who sexually molest and abuse children prey on their innocence. Recently, Evangelical megachurch pastor Robert Morris was accused of sexually assaulting a 12-year-old girl; abuse that continued afterward for several years. The victim/survivor did nothing to invite such unwanted attention from Morris. Some Evangelical degenerates will suggest that she came on to Morris or seduced him. Really? I have five granddaughters who are around the victim’s age. I can’t imagine any scenario where one of them could or would come on to or seduce a grown-ass man — especially a preacher. It takes a vile, warped person even to think that a child is culpable for what a child molester, predator, or rapist does to them. You are a disgusting human being if you think otherwise. The adult in this story is ALWAYS responsible for their behavior.
But my point today relates not to Christians who are justifiably angry and disillusioned with other Christians. I am focusing instead on non-Christians who are asking why they should consider our faith when many of our faith leaders have acted in such horrific ways.
We claim that our God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving. If this is true, he knows what is happening when a Christian leader abuses a child. In fact, he knew this would happen long before it did. His omnipotence would seemingly enable him to act in any way he wishes. And the fact that “God is love” (1 John 4:8) would compel him to defend such innocent victims.
Why, then, doesn’t he?
Indeed. Why, then, doesn’t the Evangelical defend and protect innocent victims?
Denison says the “human free will” is the reason God stands by and does nothing when Evangelical preachers grope, penetrate, and rape children:
My immediate theological response is to point to the fact of human free will.
God created us to love him, and each other (Matthew 22:37–39), but real love must be a free choice, so God has given us the freedom we can use for good or for evil (cf. Deuteronomy 30:19–20; Joshua 24:15; Revelation 3:20). If the Lord prevented every sin, we could not be free. One could argue that if God protected the victims of clergy sexual abuse, he would have to protect the victims of every crime of any kind, rendering freedom null and void.
Set aside for a moment whether humans have free will. What act of the will on the part of victims plays any part in their abuse? If Denison wants to use free will as justification for sex crimes, who committed the crimes? Not the victim. No, the only person using their free will are offending preachers. It is disgusting to suggest otherwise.
Dension argues that if God prevents clerics from sexually molesting children, he would have to protect all victims of sex crimes; and to do so would violate human free will. So, God does nothing so all children, everywhere, have equal opportunity to be sexually assaulted. Cue, “What a Mighty God We Serve.”
Caring, compassionate people are throwing up about now. All that matters to Denison is holding true to his peculiar theology. We saw similar degenerate thinking from Dr. David Tee. I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years. I spent twenty-five years pastoring Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB), Southern Baptist, Sovereign Grace Baptist, Christian Union, and nondenominational congregations. This sort of thinking is foreign to my experiences in Evangelicalism, both as a member and a pastor. Forget the Christian/Evangelical part of the equation. I suspect most of the non-Christians who frequent this site consider Denison’s and Tee’s justifications morally bankrupt. And surely most Christians do too.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Some of you engage young earth creationists in discussions and debates about the beginning of the universe and evolution. A frequent argument used by Evangelical apologists is “Were you there?” How dare we say the universe is 13.7 billion years old? How dare we say the earth wasn’t created in six twenty-four-hour days, 6,027 years ago? How dare we challenge mythical stories such as Noah’s Flood, the Tower of Babel, and Israel’s migration from Egypt to Canaan? How dare we question the supernatural claims Christians make for Jesus? Were we there? Of course not, and since we weren’t there, our challenges have no merit or relevance. Of course, Evangelicals weren’t there either. The difference is that Evangelicals appeal to faith, and unbelievers appeal to science, history, reason, and common sense. Unbelievers demand objective evidence, whereas Evangelicals appeal to subjective faith. For Evangelicals, the final answer is always “The Bible says.”
The “Were you there?” argument, is no argument at all. None of us was there. All we can do is read, study, investigate, and come to logical, rational conclusions. Faith bypasses all these things, appealing to a singular claim, “The Bible says” or “God says.” This may have worked in the prescientific age, but not today. Evangelical apologists say their peculiar deity created the universe a few thousand years ago. This is a positive claim, one that runs contrary to virtually everything science tells us about the universe. If Evangelicals want unbelievers to embrace their beliefs, they are going to have to do more than cough up proof texts or appeal to slick theological/philosophical arguments. Solid, empirical evidence is what is required, and so far, Evangelicals have failed to deliver.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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all thought Smith’s tweet was so wonderful that they made it a favorite.
I have a modern-day story for Shelton Smith and his merry band of let ’em starve, but make sure they pray the sinner’s prayer preachers. Maybe they will recognize what book the story is from:
But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Murfreesboro to Nashville and rummaged in dumpster to find a morsel of food to eat.
And by chance there came down Shelton Smith that way: and when he saw him, he sent out a tweet to his peeps, not bothering to stop, lend a hand, or buy him a meal.
And likewise another IFB pastor, when he was at the place, came and looked upon him, and said “is there not a rescue mission this man can go to?”
But a liberal Methodist, as he journeyed, came where the hungry man was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him. And went to him, bought him a meal, brought him to a Motel Six, and took care of him.
And on the next day when he departed, he took out $100.00 and gave it to the motel owner, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that had fallen on hard times?
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise. Luke 10:29-37
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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