Several years ago, an Evangelical Christian sent me the following message via Facebook Messenger (all spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original):
The things posted on this very sad antitheistic, misotheistic atheist page is spewing hatred for Jesus Christ whom you say you disbelieve in!
If so why not leave it alone?
Why does this page and other atheist pages exist??
We all know bugs bunny isn’t real.
We all know the tooth fairy isn’t real.
We all know Santa Claus isn’t real.
We all know there is no leprechauns or Easter bunny or Mickey Mouse!
But there is not one page running them down!
Not one group meets in a coffee shop or library or had a convention to run them down and take them out of schools or public venues!
Jesus Christ is God! He is real and this is misotheism not atheism!
He loves you and died and rose again to give you eternal life in heaven and forgiveness of sins.
I pray each person here will eventually allow the Holy Spirit to convict them and will accept his gift!
BEternity separated
Eternity separated from God will be horrendous!
Fire! Screaming and crying and torment! Forever ! No one will get out of hell and yes it is real!
You will curse the day you were born!
You will curse the second you were conceived!!!
You will wish you were murdered (aborted) an atrocity that many of you support!
You will wish your daddy would have pulled out of your momma!
That’s how unimaginably horrible hell will be!
You don’t want to go there and Jesus died for you so you would not have to go there!
God bless!
The sender of this message seems to think that I “hate” God, thus I am a misotheist, and not an atheist. What’s with Christians refusing to let me self-identify? I have never told a professing Christian that he or she is NOT a Christian. I accept at face value their claim of faith in Jesus. It’s not up to me to say, “Oh, you are not a True Christian®.” I leave it to Christians to fight among themselves about who is the real Christian and who is not. I just wish that Christians — Evangelicals, in particular — would respect me enough to accept at face value my story — that I am an atheist. How hard can this be, right?
I don’t hate the Christian God, nor do I hate Satan, Jesus, or countless other deities. Jesus died almost 2,000 years ago — end of discussion. Why would I waste my time hating a dead person? God and Satan, on the other hand, are myths. Again, why would I waste my time hating mythical beings? Such behavior is silly and absurd.
This commenter confuses the deity Christians worship with the beliefs and behaviors of said Christians. My objection is to what is done in the name of God/Jesus. My objection is to the theocratic tendencies of Evangelical churches, pastors, and parachurch organizations. A mythical deity can’t harm anyone. However, works done in his name can, and do, cause psychological and physical harm. (Please see Why I Hate Jesus.)
I will leave Christianity alone when Evangelicals, Mormons, and conservative Catholics retreat to their churches and stop trying to turn the United States into a “Christian” nation. As long as True Christians® attempt to force their theology and interpretation of the Bible on unbelievers, I am going to object. One need only watch former President Trump’s attempt to ingratiate himself to Evangelicals to see how dangerous Evangelical Christianity really is. Who is it that is trying to abolish abortion, LGBTQ rights, same-sex marriage, and is integral to the rise of white supremacy in the United States? Evangelicals. You see, their God is not the problem, they are.
The last part of this man’s message is one assertion after another. Blah, blah, blah … either accept what I am saying or you will forever burn in Hell. I love it when Evangelicals threaten me with God’s punishment and eternal torture. Refuse to repent? God is going to get you! In fact, you will wish you had never been born. Again, blah, blah, blah . . . I have heard such nonsense more times than I can count. God doesn’t exist and Jesus is dead. What do I have to worry about?
I don’t fear what God may do to me any more than I fear Santa Claus making a list and checking it twice, looking to see who has been naughty or nice. It is flesh-and-blood Evangelical zealots I fear, especially those who are gun-toting white supremacists. We need not fear God, but God’s people? Foolish is the person who doesn’t recognize that Evangelicals are an existential threat to our republic; that given enough power, they will either incarcerate or kill atheists, agnostics, pagans, and other unbelievers.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.
Randy Saylor, an associate pastor at Living Word International Church in Midland, Michigan, stands accused of numerous sex crimes against children.
Additional testimony from an alleged criminal sexual conduct victim Monday led to nine felony charges being added to Living Word Church Associate Pastor Randy Saylor’s list of crimes.
Originally charged with two counts of second-degree criminal sexual conduct, Saylor, 71, is now charged with four first-degree counts of CSC with a relative and two charges of CSC with victims under 13 and a defendant over 17.
Saylor is also charged with four counts of second-degree CSC with a relative and one count of second-degree CSC with a child under 13 and a defendant over 17. All of the listed charges pertain to one victim who was between 11 and 15 at the time of the alleged assaults. First-degree CSC involves penetration and second-degree CSC is touching.
….
Saylor remains free on a $50,000 cash surety bond, but Driscoll asked for it be amended to no contact with minors. Midland County District Court Judge Michael Carpenter granted the request.
Saylor also had a probable cause hearing before Judge Carpenter Monday, involving another two children. He is charged with two counts of second-degree CSC with a child under 13 and with a defendant over 17 along with one count of second-degree CSC with a relative.
Saylor is the second pastor and the third person involved with the church to be charged with such crimes. Randy Saylor’s son, Brandon Saylor, a church volunteer, admitted to sexually assaulting four children under the age of 13 for a decade and was sentenced in April to five to 15 years in prison for three counts of second-degree criminal sexual conduct.
Living Word Church Rev. James Randolph, 58, was arrested Nov. 28 and is charged with seven felonies for crimes that allegedly occurred in 2011. He is charged with two counts of first-degree CSC involving a relationship; one count of second-degree CSC with a child under 13 while Randolph was older than 17; two counts of second-degree CSC involving a relationship; one count of second-degree CSC or subsequent offense; and one count of accosting children for immoral purposes.
Randolph remains out of jail on a $5 million surety bond. He is set for a Cobbs hearing on Aug. 27. A Cobbs hearing is closed to the public and the judge uses at-hand information to let the defendant know their likely sentence. The defendant can enter a plea at that time or at a plea hearing.
Living Word Church Administrator William Bailey said Living Word International Church is deeply saddened and concerned about the CSC charges involving its ministers.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.
A prominent Detroit pastor has been charged with sexually assaulting a minor in Farmington Hills for an incident that allegedly occurred in December.
The Rev. Kenneth Flowers, 63, pastor of Greater New Mount Moriah Baptist Church in Detroit, was arraigned Friday in Farmington Hills District Court on one count of criminal sexual conduct with force or coercion and one count of criminal sexual assault with intent to commit sexual penetration. Court records show Flowers stood mute and a plea of not guilty was entered on his behalf. He was released on a $25,000 personal recognizance bond, which means he did not have to post cash or a bond, but would owe the court $25,000 if he fails to appear for future proceedings in the case.
The maximum penalty on the criminal sexual conduct charge is 15 years in prison and the maximum penalty on the sexual assault charge is 10 years.
When I reached Flowers on Monday evening, his only comment was: “I deny all those charges, and that is all I have to say.”
Maurice Davis, listed in court records as Flowers’ attorney, did not return messages Monday seeking comment.
According to police, Flowers committed the alleged assault on Dec. 20, 2023. Court records and a source knowledgeable about the case indicate the matter involved a 17-year-old man who lived in Flowers’ Farmington Hills neighborhood.
The Oakland County Prosecutor’s Office declined comment on the case and few other details were available in public records on Monday. More information on what Flowers is alleged to have done will emerge on Aug. 7 at a scheduled preliminary examination, unless Flowers opts to waive the proceeding. A preliminary examination is when prosecutors generally present some of their strongest evidence, which sometimes includes witness testimony, against someone accused of a crime. If a judge determines there is enough evidence to go to trial, the case is bound over to circuit court.
Flowers has been pastor at Greater New Mount Mariah since 1995, when he succeeded the legendary Benjamin Hooks, the longtime executive director of the NAACP. The church’s website says it has 1,000 members and describes Flowers as “a community/social activist for human rights issues” with an international reputation.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, I received the following comment:
I’m a ex-IFBer from bygone years. You’re right there was too much control by pastors but that doesn’t justify slamming Christianity and the Scriptures. Bruce, don’t throw out the “baby with the bath water”. Thousands upon thousands of pastors are faithful and earnest.
Also, an atheist believes nothing created everything; stars, sun, trees, horses, cats, puppies, etc. That’s a scientific impossibility. A painting is proof there was a painter; paintings don’t paint themselves. Neither can creation create itself, therefore creation proves there’s a Creator. You may not believe in the God of the Bible but if you’re intellectually honest you’d have to admit there’s a creator before creation.
This man agrees with my assessment of the authoritarianism found in many Evangelical churches, but he thinks I am throwing out the proverbial baby with the bathwater. I would never throw a baby out with the bathwater. Who does shit like that? All I do is pull the plug out of the tub and drain the water. None of my children or grandchildren has ever been small enough to go down the drain. Just saying . . .
I understand the point people who use this analogy are trying to make. They ignorantly assert that I reject God/Jesus/Christianity all because of certain negative experiences I have had with the church and its clerics. However, as I have stated more times than I can count, most of my experiences as a Christian and as an Evangelical pastor were positive. On balance, I had a happy, productive, satisfying life as a pastor. The reason I am an atheist today is not (primarily) due to negative experiences, but because I reject the central claims of Christianity. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.)
This man conflates me telling my story and my critiques of Evangelical Christianity with “slamming Christianity and the Scriptures.” While my writing is typically pointed and direct, I don’t think it slams Christianity and the Bible. Scores of Evangelicals and mainline Christians regularly read this blog. They frequent this site because some aspect of my writing resonates with them. Can I go overboard sometimes? Sure. But I do my best to be open, honest, and forthright with my words. That some Evangelicals get butthurt is not my problem.
I suspect that this man fled the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement and joined up with what he perceives is a better flavor of Evangelical Christianity. Countless Evangelicals have used this argument with me. What I have noticed is that all they have done is exchange harsh, in-your-face Fundamentalism for a Fundamentalism that is more subtle and nuanced in its extremism. (Please see Are Evangelicals Fundamentalists?)
This man’s comment reveals that he does not have a clear understanding of atheism. He confuses certain scientific beliefs with atheism. Let me educate him about atheism:
Atheism is in the broadest sense an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.
What atheists believe about science in general, and biology, cosmology, and the other scientific disciplines has little to do with their beliefs about the existence of deities. One can be an atheist and believe all sorts of things, including woo and nonsense. My Gawd, some atheists are Republicans and plan to vote for Donald Trump. Atheism is no cure for ignorance.
This man says that if I am “intellectually honest,” then I have to admit that there was a “creator” before “creation.” In other words, if I don’t believe this, I am intellectually dishonest — Greek for I am a liar. Of course, this man doesn’t just believe in a “creator” of some sort. His email betrays the fact that he is an Evangelical Christian; that he believes that the God (Jesus) of the Protestant Christian Bible is that “creator.” Whether he is a young-earth creationist, an old-earth creationist, or a proponent of unintelligent design doesn’t matter. According to him, the creation story traces its genesis back to the Bible God. As an atheist, I reject such assertions, choosing, instead, to cast my lot with science — real science, not Evangelical theology dressed up as science.
I have long said that I understand someone looking at the universe and concluding that a creator of some sort created it. Snap! I bet this man didn’t see that coming! It pays to actually read what I write instead of reading a few posts about Jack Hyles and Jack Schaap and then commenting. Let me be clear: I intellectually understand how someone can look at the universe and conclude that a deistic God of some sort set everything in motion; that a deistic God of some sort said, “There ya go boys and girls, do with it what you will.” What I reject out of hand is the notion that this creator is the Bible God; the God this man believes in and worships.
In the seventeen years that I have been blogging, no Evangelical has, to my satisfaction, connected the dots between A GOD and THE GOD. Believing the Bible God is the creator is a FAITH claim, not a matter of scientific fact. Either one believes the God of the Bible created everything, or they don’t. I don’t. I do not have the requisite faith necessary to believe that the creation account recorded in the Bible is true. Science tells me Genesis 1-3 is a fictional story, a fable, not scientific fact. How could it be, right? Genesis was written thousands of years before humankind had anything but a rudimentary understanding of the world. Even today, with everything we know, our knowledge has but scratched the surface of understanding.
Evolutionary biology and other branches of scientific inquiry do a good job of explaining the natural world. While scientists have not yet determined who or what was behind “creation,” they continue to seek answers to this question. Pointing to some verses in an ancient religious text or positing intelligent design arguments, which are nothing more than gussied-up creationism, tell us nothing of value. I am content to say, “I don’t know.” In fact, I am content to say, “I don’t care.” Arguments about the beginning of time and the creation of the universe don’t interest me. I am a slowly dying sixty-seven-year-old man. I have a wonderful wife, six mostly wonderful children, sixteen awesome grandchildren, and three loving, annoying, crazy cats. I choose to focus on the here and now. I am confident that the Bible deity is no God at all, that there is no Heaven or Hell, and death is the end of everything. I am confident that the claims of Christianity are false; that original sin and the need for forgiveness and salvation are a con perpetrated on humanity by the purveyors of religion. I have all I need in this life, save a World Series championship for the Cincinnati Reds and a Super Bowl win for the Bengals. If “God” can come through on these things, I just might consider returning to the fold. Until then, I remain a committed, unrepentant agnostic atheist, humanist, and liberal.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Some observations. We have things in common. Not that means much of anything. I see that you enjoying pointing out anecdotal statements expect for when you employ them yourself.
I’ve read some of your website, but I have seen very little that makes you unique and oh how we must be unique. We are both grey. You have me by a few years but who knows how that will end up….. We are both sarcastic. We have both lied and been lied to so many times we can’t honestly blame someone else or adequately defend ourselves as being worthy of followers. I see that you’ve tried that before but you really haven’t given up. You just draw a different crowd now. I imagine just as you once lied to your congregation to gather their approval, you know lie to your current “flock” to gather the same thrill you once had.
It is rather obvious that you enjoy an intellectual battle and you feel as if you’re better at it than anyone else. I’d like to chance to prove you wrong. Do you want to let our “egos” do the talking…… I find it amazing that any intellectual can build a website such as you’ve built, taking pleasure in your accomplishments, as feeble as they are……..at yet fail to recognize the majestic qualities surrounding your life.
If ANY intellectual would honestly compare your website to what God has written all around you…. You must admit that you just can’t compare. Yet, you recognize your own work at the expense of another. So weak and fleeting is your pleasure. Which is really life’s lesson you fail to recognize. Standing “fist clinched” in the face of overwhelming insignificance you possess. You must recognize you are powerless to produce anything lasting and effective by any measure of common sense. Just what good is love if it ends. Just what good is peace if it fails you? You take pleasure in the fleeting moments of your paltry website not considering its inevitable end.
I noticed that you failed to adequately express your hatred for the historical Jesus? Why? Fear? I know, how dare….. whomever….I’m sure you feel contempt rising to your lips or keyboard. I know what I know. If you’ve ever made a real emotional connection with Jesus Christ, it is more than fear. It goes the very root of what you became. So step back, and with unfeigned contempt throw your last ditch hatred at the imaginary…… Can you really do that? Does your intellect fail you?
As is my custom, I let this person know I had publicly responded to his email. Here’s what he had to say in response:
Read your response. I also read the comments from your new followers.
For the record. I didn’t lie to you. This email account is mine. I didn’t spoof anything. The URL’s are different. I respectful appeal to your mistake as a mistake. Don’t let your ego avoid admitting it. [The previous post was corrected to reflect this] Also, I have read much more of your site than you detail. I thought we might have a progress conversation based upon our interactions. It would appear that you’re still a baptist at heart. You prefer your assumptions to what is actually written/said.
When I said you lied, I meant that you lied. What you fail to realize is just how much of an [sic] contemptible man you were to the followers you have now. It would seem you refuse to acknowledge how much of hypocrite you were in your failed attempt to be a “pastor”. I know you live in a fantasy world but you should at least admit that you didn’t have any problem lying to people for decades. What makes you think you’ve got it right now?
You mention how helpful you’ve been to people now… Just another fantasy. If you are wrong, which you are, what makes you believe you’re not lying again? Not that you care. You obviously never have. It is [sic] been “status quo” for you for your entire life. You just exchanged one fantasy for another. I’m just trying to get you to admit your failures. If you really want to get into the details. I’m here.
You missed the point of reference to your creation (website) in comparison to what is around you. Baby steps….
Why do you feel important through your own “creation” attempts in your website and not recognize just how much better…. things are around you? Not calling God down at the moment. I’ll talking about being “self aware”. Do you realize just how weak you are at every level of existence? You don’t need God to understand this. You just need to be honest with yourself. Now go ahead. Tell me how wonderful you are. I suppose that children and grandchildren of you will remember you forever.
As you can see, nothing I said changed this person’s mind. His goal is not to meaningfully interact with me. Instead, he wants to wound me emotionally and psychologically. He is, after all, an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB). Eviscerating people is in their DNA. Just go read the Fundamental Forums Fighting Forum if you doubt my assertion. Note the discussion threads started by treasure_unseen. Over the years, I have engaged thousands of people through this site, via comments, email, and social media. If I had to pick one group of people to be the definition of Christian Assholes, it is IFB pastors, evangelists, missionaries, college professors, and garden variety church members. There’s just something about their beliefs and psychological make-up that turns them into vile, cruel people (and I speak broadly). Granted, I know a number of IFB leaders who are not as I describe here, but I am beginning to think that they are the exception rather than the rule.
When I look at my own life as an IFB preacher, I don’t see a man who was unkind or unloving. I genuinely cared about the people I pastored. I went out of my way to minister to them spiritually and temporally. However, I must also admit that many of my beliefs and my preaching caused psychological harm.
I have long argued that Evangelicalism causes emotional, and, at times, physical harm. It is not a benign religion. I have also argued that Evangelicalism is inherently Fundamentalist. (Please see Are Evangelicals Fundamentalists?) That said, Evangelicalism is a spectrum. On the one extreme, you have people with decidedly liberal/progressive political and theological views. These people are Evangelical in name only, and politically and theologically are much more like mainline Christians than Evangelicals. On the other extreme, we have groups such as the IFB church movement, of which the aforementioned emailer is a member. This end of the spectrum is defined by theological, political, and social rigidity. While this rigidity can be found along the Evangelical spectrum, the IFB church movement is vocal in its demand that True Christians live according to the one true IFB faith.
This rigidity breeds certainty and arrogance, and, unfortunately, it turns people into unloving, unkind assholes. Some of the readers of this blog are former IFB pastors, evangelists, missionaries, and church members. If asked, they can provide countless stories about the ugly nature of the IFB church movement. Many of you have no experience with IFB churches and pastors. I hope, by publicizing this man’s emails, readers can see the ugliness for themselves. This man is not an anomaly, the exception to the rule. He is not, in any way, “unique.” Sadly, men (and women) such as he can be found in countless IFB pulpits and pews all across America. The best thing anyone can do when coming in contact with the IFB church movement is to run!
This is my last post on this man. He has nothing constructive to offer me or the readers of this blog. Slander, lies, and nastiness seem to be his MO, and I, for one, don’t want to spend any more time on such people.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I’ve been reading Bruce Gerencser’s website https://brucegerencser.net/. If you don’t know him, it is rather interesting read.
Yet, he has something in common with those he references. He has feel [sic] into the trap of abandoning God instead of men. Which really is one of the main “trials of faith” that every son of God goes through. Sooner or later, you’re going to have to choose God….. if you’re going to find peace with Him.
This happens often with intellectual people that rightfully spot problems that Christians just refuse to recognize. People like many of the people here in this forum. I learned a long time that what people SAY about God is much different than what God has said about Himself. I decided to know the difference. He, like many others, doesn’t really want to know the difference.
Situations like this fall into the category that Paul referenced in
Rom 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
Rom 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you
The empty twisted teachings that you find among the average “church member” just isn’t intellectually sound….. and the average person doesn’t have any idea how to change. They keep saying what they’ve been told and it just keeps failing.
Question, what would you say to a person like this?
I am rather disappointed that only one person “bit” and replied. Typically, the members of the Fundamental Forum — current and former Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB) — love eviscerating those who leave the one “true” faith or are no longer considered Fundamentalist Christians.
That said, someone who used an admin email address associated with Fundamental Forums sent me the following email:
Some observations. We have things in common. Not that means much of anything. I see that you enjoying pointing out anecdotal statements expect for when you employ them yourself.
I’ve read some of your website, but I have seen very little that makes you unique and oh how we must be unique. We are both grey. You have me by a few years but who knows how that will end up….. We are both sarcastic. We have both lied and been lied to so many times we can’t honestly blame someone else or adequately defend ourselves as being worthy of followers. I see that you’ve tried that before but you really haven’t given up. You just draw a different crowd now. I imagine just as you once lied to your congregation to gather their approval, you know lie to your current “flock” to gather the same thrill you once had.
It is rather obvious that you enjoy an intellectual battle and you feel as if you’re better at it than anyone else. I’d like to chance to prove you wrong. Do you want to let our “egos” do the talking…… I find it amazing that any intellectual can build a website such as you’ve built, taking pleasure in your accomplishments, as feeble as they are……..at yet fail to recognize the majestic qualities surrounding your life.
If ANY intellectual would honestly compare your website to what God has written all around you…. You must admit that you just can’t compare. Yet, you recognize your own work at the expense of another. So weak and fleeting is your pleasure. Which is really life’s lesson you fail to recognize. Standing “fist clinched” in the face of overwhelming insignificance you possess. You must recognize you are powerless to produce anything lasting and effective by any measure of common sense. Just what good is love if it ends. Just what good is peace if it fails you? You take pleasure in the fleeting moments of your paltry website not considering its inevitable end.
I noticed that you failed to adequately express your hatred for the historical Jesus? Why? Fear? I know, how dare….. whomever….I’m sure you feel contempt rising to your lips or keyboard. I know what I know. If you’ve ever made a real emotional connection with Jesus Christ, it is more than fear. It goes the very root of what you became. So step back, and with unfeigned contempt throw your last ditch hatred at the imaginary…… Can you really do that? Does your intellect fail you?
The person who emailed me (using an admin account from Fundamental Forum) uses the word “intellectual” to describe me — more on that in a moment — as does the person who started the discussion thread on Fundamental Forums. This leads me to conclude that these people are likely one and the same, though they could be two different people.
My short response to this Christian would be to call him a judgmental prick. However, that would hardly make him “unique,” right?” Many IFB pastors, evangelists, and congregants are known for being arrogant, self-righteous, judgmental assholes, so this man is just another garden-variety Bible thumper. That said, I do want to respond to his email.
First, this man says I am not “unique.” I don’t believe I have ever said that I am. I am just one man with a story to tell. That my story resonates with thousands and thousands of people suggests that more than a few people find my writing “unique.” However, I would never say that about myself.
Second, this man incorrectly asserts that I lied to the congregations I pastored, and I continue to lie today to readers of this blog. He provides no evidence for this claim. I don’t believe I have ever deliberately lied to church members or the people who frequent this site. Have I ever lied? Sure. That said, lying is the exception to the rule for me. I always try to be open, honest, and forthright.
Over the past 17 years, I have had several Evangelical Christians accuse me of lying about my past or withholding the “true” story of the Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser. One man even went so far as to say that I had never pastored a church here in rural northwest Ohio; that he had talked to people who lived in this area and they had never heard of me. Not much I can do about such ignorance and stupidity. I pastored and worked for three churches in northwest Ohio: Montpelier Baptist Church in Montpelier, Olive Branch Christian Union Church in Fayette, and Our Father’s House in West Unity. Just the facts, ma’am, just the facts.
Third, my goal as an Evangelical pastor was to evangelize the lost, teach the saved, and minister to the needs of the congregations I pastored. To suggest that I did these things just for the “thrill” of it or just to attract a crowd is ludicrous. Methinks there is a lot of projection going on in this man’s email to me. I, of course, can’t know that, but I would never send him an email making ill-informed assertions. My mama taught me better manners than that.
Fourth, this man calls me an “intellectual.” I guess that, coming from a guy who is part of a movement where an intellectual is someone who owns more than five books and has a ninth-grade education, I should take this as a compliment.
Three IFB Preachers Seeing Who Has the Largest Church
This man challenges me to a dick-measuring contest of sorts, but I won’t oblige him. Back in the early days of this blog, I would engage in such “discussions,” but I quickly learned that such people are only interested in hearing themselves talk. Thus, to quote the Bible, I don’t cast my pearls before swine. He’s free to say what he will about me on Fundamental Forum, social media, or start up a blog of his own dedicated to taking down the man, myth, and legend, the Most Reverend Bruce Gerencser. If this man chooses the latter route, he will find that running a widely read, successful blog is hard work. Really hard work.
Fifth, this man states that if ANY (his emphasis) intellectual would honestly (IFB Greek for “agree with me”) compare my writing to what God has written, he or she would have to admit that there is no comparison. According to him, what God has written wins hands down every time. I will leave it to the “intellectuals” on this site to judge whether God is a better writer than I am. All I know to do is write in such a way that people will find my work insightful, informative, helpful, and, at times, funny. The Bible certainly can be all of those things, but I would hardly say that it is uniformly so. And I most certainly wouldn’t say that the Bible was written by God. I am, after all, an “intellectual.” I have read numerous books about the text of the Protestant Christian Bible. Claiming the Bible was written by anyone but fallible, frail humans is absurd — “inconsistent with reason, logic or common sense; incongruous or inviting mockery” (TheSage VII English Dictionary and Thesaurus). One need only read one, two or ten of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books to learn that the Bible is of human origin.
Sixth, this man says that he noticed that I “failed to adequately express my hatred for the historical Jesus.” Hmm, let’s see. The historical Jesus is dead. He died almost 2,000 years ago and his bones are buried in an unknown grave. Why in the world would I “hate” an ancient dead man? “I hate you, Nero!” How dumb is that, right? Now, if you ask me if I hate, despise, and loathe Donald Trump? Guilty as charged. But, Jesus? He is but a character in an ancient, largely fictional, collection of books. My objection has always been directed at Evangelicalism itself, not the deity its adherents claim to worship. Anyone who has actually read Why I Hate Jesus knows this.
To suggest that I fear a dead man is — dare I say it again — absurd. I reject the central claims of Christianity. I have no reason to fear Jesus. What’s he going to do? Rise up from his grave and beat me up for saying bad things about him and his followers? Child, please. If I fear anyone, it’s armed, pickup-driving, white supremacist, Christian nationalists. But, Jesus? Nope.
I have no idea why this man wants me to, with “unfeigned contempt,” throw “hatred” at the dead Jesus. Is he trying to bait me into committing the unpardonable sin, thus justifying his judgmental email? Sorry, but I have already done that. Has he not read Hebrews 6:4-6?
For it is impossible for those [Bruce Gerencser] who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,If they [Bruce Gerencser] shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he [Bruce Gerencser] be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who [Bruce Gerencser] hold the truth in unrighteousness;Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them [Bruce Gerencser]; for God hath shewed it unto them [Bruce Gerencser].For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they [Bruce Gerencser] are without excuse:Because that, when they [Bruce Gerencser] knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.Professing themselves [Bruce Gerencser] to be wise, they became fools,And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.Wherefore God also gave them [Bruce Gerencser] up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.For this cause God gave them [Bruce Gerencser] up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.And even as they [Bruce Gerencser] did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:Who [Bruce Gerencser] knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Man, this Bruce Gerencser dude is in a world of shit. That is, IF there is a God, IF that God is the Christian deity, IF the Bible is the Word of God. I am confident that not one of these claims is true. I am convinced that this life is the only one any of us has, and once we draw our last breath, that’s it.
Let me conclude this post with the advice I give readers on the About page:
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
After two short stints pastoring Community Baptist Church in Elmendorf, Texas (1994) and Olive Branch Christian Union Church (1995) in Fayette, Ohio, I started a Sovereign Grace Baptist congregation called Grace Baptist Church in West Unity, Ohio. Several years later, we would change the church’s name to Our Father’s House to better reflect our inclusiveness.
When I started Grace Baptist Church, I was a five-point Calvinist, not much different theologically from my description in part three of this series. I remained a Calvinist until the late 1990s, at which time my theology and political beliefs began lurching leftward. The church changed its name and I began to focus more on inclusivism and good works. During this time, my theology moved from a Calvinistic/Reformed viewpoint to more of a liberal/progressive Mennonite perspective. Much of my preaching focused on the good works every Christian should be doing and the church’s responsibility to minister to the sick, poor, and marginalized.
As my preaching moved leftward, so did my politics. By the time I left Our Father’s House in July of 2002, I no longer politically identified as a Republican. The single biggest change in my beliefs came when I embraced pacifism. The seeds of pacifism were sown years before when the United States immorally attacked Iraq in the first Iraq War. I opposed this war, and as I began reading authors such as Thomas Merton,Dorothy Day, John Howard Yoder, Gandhi, and Eileen Egan, I concluded that all war was immoral.
By the time of the Y2K scare:
I was preaching inclusivism, encouraging interaction and work with all who claimed the Christian moniker.
I was preaching a works-centered, lifestyle-oriented gospel. Gone was the emphasis on being “born again” or making a public profession of faith. In particular, I focused on the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount.
I believed the institutional, organized Christian church was hopelessly broken and increasingly indifferent toward the needs of the poor and marginalized.
I was a committed, vocal pacifist, opposing all war on moral grounds. I remain a pacifist to this day.
In 2003, I pastored Victory Baptist Church — a Southern Baptist congregation in the central Michigan community of Clare — for seven months. Both Polly and I agree that we never should have moved to Clare. It was a wasted seven months (more on that in a future post) that ended with me resigning from the church. This was the last church I pastored.
While I was pastor of Victory Baptist, a friend of mine from Ohio came to visit us. From 1991-1994, he had been a member of the church I pastored in Somerset, Ohio. After listening to me preach, he told me that he was astounded by how much my preaching had changed, how liberal it had become. And he was right. While my preaching was orthodox theologically, my focus had dramatically changed.
In 2004, Polly and I moved to Yuma, Arizona. We lived in Yuma for almost seven months. We then moved to Newark Ohio, where we lived for ten months. In July of 2005, we moved back to the northwest Ohio community of Bryan. In May of 2007, we bought a house in Ney, Ohio where we currently live.
As you can see, we did a lot of moving over four years. We were restless seekers. Every place we lived, we diligently, Sunday after Sunday, Wednesday after Wednesday, visited local churches in hopes of finding a spiritual home. Instead of finding a home, we increasingly became dissatisfied and disillusioned. We concluded that, regardless of the name over the door, churches were pretty much all the same. Dysfunctional, incestuous, focused inward, entertainment/program driven, resembling social clubs far more than the church Jesus purportedly built. This would prove to be the emotional factor that drove me to investigate thoroughly the theological claims of Christianity and the teachings of the Bible. This investigation ultimately led to my deconversion in 2008.
From 2004-2007, Polly and I visited over a hundred churches of numerous sects:
Some Sundays, we attended the services of three different churches. We also attended Wednesday prayer meetings (all poorly attended) and a fair number of special services such as revival meetings during the week.
The most astounding thing from our travels through Christendom is the realization that most pastors don’t care if people visit their churches. Less than 10% of the churches we visited made any contact with us after we visited. Only a handful visited us in our home without us asking them to do so.
In November of 2008, I told Polly that I was no longer a Christian, and that I no longer believed the central tenets of the Christian religion. Not long after, Polly came to a similar conclusion. In 2009, I wrote my infamous letter, A Letter to Family, Friends, and Former Parishioners. This letter was my official coming out. Later in 2009, a former parishioner, friend, and pastor of a Christian Union church came to see me in hopes of rescuing me. I later wrote him a letter. You can read the letter here.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I spent most of my sixty-seven years on Earth living in rural Ohio. Outside of a few years in California and Arizona, I lived my formative years in Northwest Ohio, attending schools in Bryan, Harrod, Farmer, Ney, Deshler, Mt. Blanchard, and Findlay. My travels put me in close contact with Mexican migrant workers. While most of these workers would come and go depending on what crops needed picking, some of them stayed in Ohio after their work was done. Migrants, many of whom spoke little English, assimilated into our culture, taking jobs, marrying, and raising their families. Over time, multiple generations of Mexican families made rural Northwest Ohio their home. They have, in every way, added to the richness of our communities, even though racist epitaphs are still hurled their way.
Many of those migrants who originally stayed in our communities are undocumented; people Donald Trump and the Republican Party call “illegals.” Trump would love for us to believe that all of these undocumented workers are “undesirables” who must be immediately rounded up and deported to Mexico. Suppose Trump and his MAGA cronies have their way. In that case, more than eleven million undocumented people — most of whom hold gainful employment and pay taxes — will be violently ripped from their communities and families and returned to countries many of them have never visited.
Republicans and Democrats agree that the United States has an immigration problem; that conditions at our southern border are unsustainable. How to fix this problem is where disagreements arise. Trump wants to ship undocumented workers back to where they came from, wholesale, and in doing so will tank the U.S. economy. Democrats want to see meaningful paths to citizenship for everyone here illegally. If they are gainfully employed and don’t have serious criminal backgrounds, we must provide a way for them to become legal. Trump’s policies, and those of Project 2025, hail to the days when we rounded up indigenous people and Japanese-Americans and locked them up against their will in internment camps or reservations.
Just remember, that dear Mexican family who lives next to you may have parents or grandparents who are here illegally. Do you want to destroy their families so that you can defend the mythical Great Replacement theory? We can and must fix our southern border, but not at the expense of people who have played an essential part in our communities and workforce.
Bruce Gerencser Ney, Ohio
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Another day, another post by Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, about yours truly. Titled Answering More Questions+, Thiessen used my last five posts to say that I was wrong. Of course, his five readers will not know they are my posts. Thiessen does not link to my articles, nor does he mention me by name or initials.
It is amazing how some unbelievers, like LGBTQ, vegans, and vegetarians [vegans and vegetarians, can’t be Christians?] will always tell you information you do not want to know. The person writing that article [Bruce Gerencser] has reached part two and it is the same story he has preserved on hundreds of web pages on his website, yet he feels he has to write about it again.
This and these types of articles are stories of failures. The lesson to take from them is what not to do when you have doubts or are in a crisis. Failures are not someone you should listen to or follow their examples.
They do not have any answers and they have nothing for Christians except information on what to avoid. Quitters are not role models and while we have empathy for them and strive to see if they can be redeemed again, we do not follow their examples or listen to their words.
These types of people are just screaming for attention, similar to those aging Hollywood actresses who continue to take their clothes off like they are achieving some great goal or making a powerful statement. The only people who like seeing the actresses strip are perverts.
The quitters are embarrassing themselves as they hold their failures up for all to see and ridicule. They are not achieving anything or helping anyone.
From day one of blogging in 2007, I determined to use my real name and write openly and honestly about my life. And that’s exactly what I have done. Have I told readers EVERYTHING about my life? No, and I don’t intend to do so. That said, for the most part, I have been honest and vulnerable, knowing that doing so could lead people to view me in a negative light.
Thiessen, a disgraced Evangelical preacher who abandoned his family and fled the United States to avoid legal obligations, goes to great lengths to hide who he really is. While he is certainly free to do so, I don’t understand why he so vehemently objects to me doing otherwise. Why does my story enflame his metaphorical hemorrhoids? Why does the retelling of my story upset him so? If my writing causes him to reach for his tube of Preparation H, why not stop reading it? Why not write original content instead of repeatedly cribbing my writing and that of Ben Bewwick (Meerkat Musings)? Does Thiessen really believe he is “helping” his fellow believers? Or is he just another pissed-off Evangelical who is upset that I am talking out of school?
Thiessen has countless times over the years called me names. He loves saying that I am a quitter; a failure. Thiessen says I am like an actress who takes off her clothes on TV or in a movie. Those who watch her on the screen are, according to a man with lots of skeletons in his closet, “perverts.” Thus, my writing is akin to a naked actress, and you dear readers are perverts for reading it.
Am I a quitter? Sure. I have quit several things in my life, as all of us have. But I will tell you who I haven’t quit on. Unlike Thiessen, I have never quit on my spouse, children, or grandchildren. I suspect if the truth was ever told about the life of Derrick Thiessen, there would be plenty of quitting for all to see.
Thiessen also says I am a “failure.” Again, all of us fail at one time or another. I have had many successes and failures in my life. So has Thiessen. So what is he trying to accomplish with these slurs? Best I can tell, Thiessen is gaslighting us, projecting his failures on me, hoping to avoid careful examination of his own life and accountability for his actions. I suspect most readers see through what he is doing. Of course, Thiessen could clear all of this up by being open, honest, and forthcoming about his life, from his days in Canada to his present domicile and “ministry” in the Philippines. Of course, he will never do this. Thus the endless stream of blog posts about me will continue.
Finally, Thiessen says I am “not achieving anything or helping anyone.” He knows this isn’t true, but he keeps saying it over, and over, and over again. I will leave it to others to determine whether I have achieved anything or helped anyone. My email suggests that I have helped countless people over the years. Comments on the YouTube/podcast interviews I have done lead me to believe that many people find my story helpful and encouraging. Even Evangelicals who disagree with me find my writing engaging and informative. I have been in talks with an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastor about speaking to his church school’s high school students. He asked if I would be willing to take questions from them. “Absolutely,” I replied. Two years ago, I gave a similar talk to a young men’s group at a Mennonite church in Pennsylvania. If I am not achieving anything or helping anyone, why do even Evangelicals find my story interesting?
I know nothing I say will make one bit of a difference when it comes to what Thiessen says about me. I just want him to know I see through his bullshit, as do many, if not most, of the readers of this site.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
