This is always the thought of the unbeliever. They think that secular records were the inspiration for the biblical writers even though that cannot possibly be true. There is no record of Moses coming in contact with anyone from the Greek region or that he had even heard the story.
This contrary claim just comes from the minds of those who seek to make the Bible a human book. They cannot produce one shred of evidence their claim is true, just like the biblical scholars who claim much of the OT was taken from Babylonian myths and written in the 5th to 7th centuries BC.
….
If God cannot write original material, what does that say about God? A question you can answer for yourselves. One point would be that God is not who he says he is. That would be devastating to Christians everywhere.
But since God is who he says he is, then it is a fact that Hesiod copied from the Bible. Unbelievers love to twist history to fit what they want it to be instead of accepting it as it was. Believing what God wrote is a part of faith and that pleases God.
— Derrick Thomas Thiessen, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, Pandora’s Box 2, November 20, 2023
Churches in the American culture — you know one of the largest expenses we have in buildings? The amount of handicap parking and handicap accessibility that we have in our churches. Now let me make you mad for a minute and I don’t really care. Why is it you pull up to a church that says they operate in faith, and you have fifty handicapped parking spots?
Aint no body lay hands on them handicapped folks yet? I don’t care what Twitter says. You can get mad all you want to. Fold your arms. Stick your lips out. Poot[?] your mouth. I don’t care. I’m so unafraid of what anybody in this tent thinks about me right now in my life, I could care less.
We just expect that people are going to leave church the same way they came to church. We ought to start having some signs out there, that don’t have like handicap accessibility … people in a wheelchair. We ought to start having signs of a wheelchair laying down and someone just walking up.
‘Well pastor, you are just being insensitive.’
I think you just don’t have any faith is what I think.
— Greg Locke, pastor of Global Vision Bible Church, Mt. Juliet, Tennessee
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.
Kyle Hilleary, a pastor at Cedar View Baptist Church in Olive Branch, Mississippi, has been charged with exploitation of a child by the DeSoto County Sheriff’s Department. Hilleary is also a teacher at Cross Creek Academy in Olive Branch. Cedar View is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention.
A 30-year-old Mississippi pastor and teacher has been charged with the exploitation of a child, according to the DeSoto County Sheriff’s Department.
Kyle Hilleary was arrested on November 7 by DCSD and his bond was set at $250,000. Reports state, he bonded out of jail on the same day.
Cedar View Baptist Church in Olive Branch, Mississippi released a statement on its website saying:
“We will comply with the authorities to the fullest extent, should they choose to question Cedar View Baptist Church. As of this writing, we have not been contacted by any governmental authorities, and we have had no direct contact with Kyle or members of his family. Kyle is suspended from his employment indefinitely until the church can together take further action in accordance with its bylaws.”
Joe Whitten has a unique connection to Cedar View Baptist Church. He says his father started the church in 1963.
Whitten says that he was shocked to learn that Hilleary had been arrested.
“Anything like this is just terrible, and it’s going to be devastating to a lot of people because they put their trust in him,” said Whitten.
Hilleary’s LinkedIn page lists him as a Pastor in Residence at the church.
Hilleary was also employed as a teacher at Cross Creek Christian School but has been terminated, according to a statement released by the school:
“As this matter involves the arrest of a staff member, the Administrator and School Board have decided to immediately terminate Mr. Hilleary and not allow him on the campus while the investigation and legal proceedings are pending against him. … At this time, we are not aware of any of the allegations involving any actions while on campus or as a teacher at the school.
“As a ministry, when an allegation is made against an employee, our organization immediately removes that individual from any contact with children pending the outcome of the criminal matter, and we fully cooperate with parents, state officials, and law enforcement. We believe that if children are safe anywhere, they should be safe at Cross Creek.”
Investigators reportedly searched Hilleary’s classroom at Cross Creek Christian Academy but no details were released.
It’s unknown where the alleged act Hilleary is charged with took place, but Joe Whitten believes that if Hilleary is guilty, it may be difficult for the congregation to forgive him.
“This church has been [here] a long time, and a lot of people, some of the older people that’s been around, they’re not going to take it well,” said Whitten.
This investigation is being handled by the state Attorney General’s Office with the assistance of the DCSD and the Olive Branch Police Department.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
An Evangelical man named Hober Sanovitch — likely a fake name and email address — sent me the following email (all spelling and grammar in the original):
Bruce – I’ve read your denials of Christ and, as a military vet defending our U.S. values, and I applaud your using your God-Given rights to do so.
There is no wall of separation of church & state. We do not have to agree with people but we need to defend against speech that espouses destruction of what America has stood for since 1776. Example: Congress House of Rep censure of Tlib & Omar (Islam Reps (D-Michigan).
It’s entertaining watching people & governments trying to outwit God … and to what end?
What are U.S. values? Who decides which values are American? Hober says he is a military vet who defends these unnamed values. Does anyone seriously believe that the military defends U.S. values, whatever they might be? I am sixty-six years old. From my chair on my front lawn, I see a well-trained military whose primary objective is to advance and protect America’s political agenda and protect the properties and profits of U.S. corporations. It seems to me that the powers that be use the military to “protect” America’s colonial and imperial ambitions. The United States has over 1,000 military installations across the globe. Why so many military bases? What “values” are these bases protecting?
The only “values” all Americans should hold in common are those found in the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Military personnel swear under oath to protect and defend the Constitution, as do our politicians and law enforcement professionals. When is the last time our military has been called on to actually defend and protect the Constitution?
Hober says that I have God-given rights. I assume he is talking about the rights delineated in the Bill of Rights. However, whatever rights I may have were not given to me by the Christian God. The rights granted by the Bill of Rights do not come from God, they come from amendments enshrined into law (and later interpreted) by American men and women. God is not mentioned one time in the U.S. Constitution. Not one time. So enough of this nonsense about the United States being a Christian nation with laws given to them by Jesus (who is God). Wealthy white men wrote the Constitution — not God.
Hober goes on to say that “there is no wall of separation of church & state.” This is, of course, patently untrue. Are Republicans trying to topple the Wall? Absolutely. They cannot reach their theocratic goals as long as there is a wall between church and state. That’s why we must fight back every time theocrats even think about taking a brick out of the Wall.
Hober is not a believer in free speech. He supports freedom of some speech — that which aligns with his peculiar worldview. While there’s no such thing as absolute free speech, generally people should be free to say whatever they want (and to suffer the consequences of said speech). I despise street preachers, but I defend their right to stand on a public sidewalk and scream at passersby about sin and getting saved. I defend Donald Trump’s right to spew bullshit every time he opens his mouth. I defend the right of Palestinian-American congresspeople to show their support for the Palestinian people. We live in a pluralistic country. The U.S. is a secular state. We are a free people, although I suspect we are not as “free” as we think we are. The Bill of Rights guarantees the right to free speech. Hober evidently interprets that to mean “only speech that conforms to my white, heterosexual, Christian worldview.”
I would love to ask Hober what, exactly, “America has stood for since 1776.” Personally, I don’t care what our founding fathers “stood for.” Surely, we should know and reflect upon our nation’s 260-year history, but we live in a different day and time, so we must, with one eye on the past, forge our own way.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, continues to misuse and misattribute my content, writing several posts about me virtually every week, saying he is just using my copyrighted material to teach believers — all ten of them who read his blog, anyway. I have largely ignored Thiessen’s posts, but a recent one titled Do They [Unbelievers] Really Want a Discussion? deserves a response.
Thiessen wrote:
Over the years we have had discussions with a variety of unbelievers and people who claim to be Christian. They have not always gone well. We are not trying to evangelize these people but work hard to plant and water seeds in them.
….
They usually do not want an open-minded discussion. Their minds remain closed and they only want the believer to be open-minded to their views and points. if they want to have an open honest discussion, then the unbeliever cannot simply dismiss the points made by the believer.
….
That specific unbeliever [Bruce Gerencser] already knows that science, archaeology, and other secular topics do not cover, fully support, or provide the information he is willing to listen to. That means he only hears what he wants to hear and can freely remain in his unbelief without guilt.
….
This is why we have stopped talking to many unbelievers. They just do not want to hear the truth and they want to shield themselves from what God has to say. A believer is not allowed to have an open and honest discussion because they are already forbidden to include what their belief is and where they came to that belief.
To be truly objective, the unbeliever has to be open to everything involved in the discussion and that includes quotes from the Bible. One cannot prove the Bible true without using bible verses as part of their examples and points.
….
Those Bible verses needed to present one’s point of view are backed up by both science and archaeology. Without that reference point, it is impossible to refute the arguments made by the unbeliever. One cannot appeal to both science and archaeology to prove a point if one cannot bring pertinent bible verses into the discussion.
….
BG [Bruce Gerencser] has our email address and if he has a list of questions he wants answered, then we would be happy to answer them for him. But we will not get involved in a discussion. He won’t like the answers but the truth is the truth and he does not have it anymore.
Thiessen wrongly thinks that I have doubts about the existence of God, Jesus, and Christianity. I don’t. I am fully persuaded that the Christian God is a myth, Jesus is a man who lived and died, and the central claims of Christianity are false. I have weighed these things in the balance and found them wanting. I don’t have questions that need answering, and even if I did, I would never, never go to a disgraced preacher who lacks understanding of basic Christianity — especially soteriology — for answers. If I want answers to religious questions, I seek out experts, not hateful, mean-spirited, argumentative Evangelical preachers.
Now to the focus of this post. Evangelicals, including Thiessen, think if they quote a Bible verse, they have provided evidence for their claim. This is not true. Bible verses are claims, not evidence. Evangelicals claim Jesus was born of a virgin, and give several Bible verses (which they grossly misinterpret) to justify their claim. However, these verses are not evidence of the virgin birth. They are claims, and if Evangelicals want me to believe that a teen girl named Mary was impregnated by God (the Holy Ghost) without consent and gave birth to a God-man named Jesus, they must provide more evidence than “the Bible says.” Of course, there is no evidence for the virgin birth apart from the Bible. The same can be said for many Evangelical beliefs.
When I ask for “evidence,” I am asking for more than proof texts. I am more than happy to talk about the Bible, but when Evangelicals appeal to the Bible as the sole source of evidence for their claims, I am going to call foul. First, there is no evidence that the Bible is anything other than a fallible, errant, contradictory ancient compilation of religious writings. Believing the Bible is God’s inerrant, infallible words is a faith claim, one for which Evangelicals can provide no evidence apart from saying “I believe it to be true.” Second, the central claims of Christianity rest on a foundation of faith — a faith I do not have. I refuse to ignore evidence and facts and just faith-it.
Ninety-nine percent of the emails and messages I receive from Evangelical preachers and apologists are filled with Bible verses and regurgitated arguments and claims. No new arguments, no new claims, just the same old shit, new day. I would love to hear a new argument, but none have been forthcoming for sixteen years. I am open to new evidence for the claims of Christianity, but I highly doubt any is coming. I spent 20,000 hours reading and studying the Bible. I preached over 4,000 sermons. I have read countless theological tomes. I am confident that I have a comprehensive understanding of Christianity. If the Thiessens of the Evangelical world have new evidence for their claims, I am more than willing to hear them out. However, regurgitating the same things over and over again is not helpful nor persuasive, and I wish the Evangelicals who contact me would realize this. Alas, they don’t, so I must endure email after email of quoted — often misused — Bible verses, appeals to Pascal’s Wager, heretical theological beliefs, threats of judgment and Hell, and questions asking me if I have ever read this or that book.
Do better, Evangelicals, do better.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
In 2017, Ulises Moreno, a bus driver for Decatur Assembly of God in Decatur, Arkansas, was accused of repeatedly raping a church girl.
THV-11 reported:
A man who works as a van driver for the Decatur Assembly of God has been accused of raping a young girl several times over the past two years, according to CBS affiliate KFSM.
On Wednesday, police arrested 30-year-old Ulises Moreno in connection to the rape charges.
The girl, who is younger than 15, told authorities that Moreno raped her so much “that she had lost count of all the instances.”
She said that the most recent attacks happened during March and April. During the alleged incident in April, Moreno was driving the van where he molested her while he was still driving. She said he stopped the van to rape her.
Moreno has denied touching the girl “inappropriately” and claimed he didn’t know why she would say that.
According to the affidavit, the church’s pastor, Kirk Anderson, said that Moreno drove one of the vans every week.
In 2018, Moreno pleaded guilty to sexually assaulting a thirteen-year-old girl. Astoundingly, he was sentenced to ten years probation — no prison time.
Ulises Moreno, 31, of Decatur pleaded guilty July 31 in Benton County Circuit Court to second-degree sexual assault.
As part of his probation, Moreno is barred from any contact with the girl or other minors, excluding his children. He’ll also have to register as a sex offender and pay more than $1,000 fines and court fees.
Moreno faces up to 20 years in prison if he violates his probation.
He initially faced a rape charge, but pleaded guilty to the lesser felony of sexual assault — a resolution the family supported, according to Nathan Smith, Benton County prosecutor.
Moreno was arrested in November 2017 after the girl told police Moreno raped her several times in the spring.
The girl said Moreno molested her while he was a volunteer van driver for Decatur Assembly of God. She said he would molest her while he was driving and stop the van to rape her, according to court documents.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.
In 2018, Melquisedec Chan, pastor of Vida Abundante Church in Alton, Texas, and a medical doctor in Mexico, was accused of sedating women and then sexually assaulting them. Chan is a surgeon in Mexico, but is not licensed to practice medicine in Texas. Chan was charged with “aggravated sexual assault and practicing medicine without a license.”
Chan has finally had his day in court. Chan admitted to charges he sexually assaulted two female parishioners.
The website for KURV AM Radio from Mission, Texas, reports:
A former church pastor in Alton has admitted to charges he sexually assaulted two female parishioners. 58-year-old Melquisedec Chan entered a plea of guilty shortly after a jury had been selected for his trial that was to have begun today.
Chan pleaded guilty to two counts of aggravated sexual assault and two counts of practicing medicine without a license. The charges stem from 9-year-old accusations by two women that Chan had sedated them, then sexually assaulted them.
He was first arrested by Edinburg police after a woman reported that Chan allegedly sedated and sexually assaulted her while following up with her after a surgery.
She told police that Chan, who was the founder and a pastor at Vida Abundante Church in Alton, was also a family doctor. It’s not immediately clear whether Chan is still affiliated with the church.
A day after his arrest, a McAllen woman came forward and told investigators Chan provided “intravenous medication to (her) to help ease the pain of her illness,” following her 2012 diagnosis with a head tumor, according to a probable cause affidavit.
She had alleged that Chan first treated her at the church before “conducting regular house visits around July 2014,” during which he injected her with an unknown medication that made her fall asleep in a short amount of time.
She also alleged Chan groped her while she was sedated and assaulted her with his fingers, according to a probable cause affidavit. She confronted him in February 2015 and he “ceased all contact with her.”
On Monday, a prosecutor told the jury, which will sentence Chan, that he broke all of his oaths, his oaths to practice medicine, to take care of patients, his oath as a pastor and his oath to his wife.
“He used his power for his personal gain,” the prosecutor said. “He would sedate the victims and operated his clinic out of his church.”
The prosecutor said that after the women were sedated, they would wake up and feel strange.
“It started with greed, it ended with lust,” the prosecutor said.
Carlos A. Garcia, Chan’s defense attorney, said that he grew up in Mexico and that his dad was also a pastor.
Garcia said that following his arrest, Chan admitted what he had done wrong and would tell anyone who would listen, including his wife, his son and the police.
The defense also highlighted Chan’s charitable work, including the founding of an orphanage in Reynosa and feeding the homeless in Reynosa.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the past sixteen years, I have received countless emails and social media messages from Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastors, evangelists, missionaries, and everyday church members. These emails and messages are typically hateful, judgmental, mean-spirited, and unkind. Some IFB adherents have threatened me with physical harm, including murder. They have also threatened my partner, our daughter with Down syndrome, and our other children. With no decency, no respect, and no regard for how their words might be perceived, these so-called lovers of Jesus ignore their Savior’s commands about how to treat their enemies. The Sermon on the Mount is nowhere to be found in their Bibles.
This behavior is not new, nor is it atypical. Abused people tend to abuse others. When you spend your life being berated and judged — hard, foot-stomping, pulpit-pounding, hellfire and brimstone preaching, brother! — by their pastors, is it any wonder that when they get older, they repeat the same behavior? The late Jack Hyles turned out thousands of preachers just like him, men filled with certainty and arrogance who Sunday after Sunday abuse their congregants with the pure words of God straight from the King James Bible. The late Cecil Hodges, a notable IFB preacher, said one time at a conference I was attending, “We hit our people over the head with the sin stick so often that they duck when we begin to preach.” Boy, ain’t that the truth. When you are psychologically abused and assaulted this way year after year, you begin to think the abuse is “normal.”
Some IFB preachers are nice people with winsome, kind, helpful personalities. By all accounts, they are respected by people both inside and outside of the church. Recently, Republican Mike Johnson was chosen to be the speaker of the House. Johnson is an all-round nice guy. However, when you look at his Fundamentalist Baptist beliefs and practices, you find a very different kind of man — beliefs that are physically and psychologically harmful. Johnson is a true blue believer, as was I. By all accounts I was a winsome, kind, helpful preacher, but my beliefs were anything but.
Does this mean IFB Christians are bad people? Well, certainly some of them are. More than a few IFB preachers are sociopaths, and some are even psychopaths. Narcissism is common. The question is, why this is so?
Hodges’ email was respectful and polite, so I shall respond to it in like manner:
Hello there Mr. Gerencser,
My wife and I have been IFB missionaries in Honduras for 26 years now. I would hate to think that I left my home in the USA and all that is dear to proclaim a gospel that is a figment of someone’s imagination. It would be sad to waste my life in such a way. But of course we do believe it is real and many precious souls have come to experience God’s grace as well.
People commit themselves to all sorts of beliefs that are false, beliefs they are willing to die for. Hodges likely thinks Mormonism is a cult, but millions of people believe Mormonism is true. Mormon missionaries go two-by-two across the earth, preaching the gospel and evangelizing sinners. They are devoted to the teachings of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. If the level of devotion and commitment is evidence for the truthfulness of a belief system, then Mormonism is definitely true. Of course, Hodges thinks Mormonism is false.
How is the IFB church movement any different? Just because people are committed to a peculiar belief system doesn’t mean it’s true. People can and do commit themselves to all sorts of beliefs that are false. None of us is exempt from delusion. All any of us can do is rationally and skeptically examine our beliefs. Hodges believes his peculiar brand of faith is True Christianity®. How does he know his flavor of Christianity is true and all others are wrong? Forty percent of Hondurans are Roman Catholics — Christians in every sense of the word. I suspect that Hodges rejects the claim that Catholics are Christians. How do we determine who is right? Every sect appeals to the Bible as evidence for their beliefs, yet no two of them agree on what the Bible teaches, They can’t even agree on the basics: salvation, baptism, and communion. Why, then, is Hodges certain he is right?
I grew up in IFB Christianity in the 70s and 80s.
Hodges was born into and grew up in the IFB church movement. The only religion he has experienced is IFB Christianity. Thanks to lifelong conditioning and indoctrination, Hodges is certain that IFB Christianity is right. I understand where Hodges is coming from, having spent the first forty years of my life in Fundamentalist Christianity. Even though I left the IFB church movement in the late 1980s, I continued to pastor churches that were Fundamentalist. It was only when I pondered whether I could be wrong that I began to reexamine my beliefs. I wonder if Hodges has ever taken a hard look at his beliefs? How many books outside of his IFB rut has Hodges read? (Assuming he reads books. Some IFB preachers don’t read anything except the Bible and the terms and conditions on porn sites.) 🙂 Best I can tell, Hodges is King James Only — an untenable position if there ever was one. I wonder if Hodges has ever read any of New Testament scholar Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the nature and history of the Bible? Until I was willing to read authors who were not IFB/Evangelical, my beliefs remained safe and secure. However, once I started wandering outside of the Evangelical box, I found that many of my sincerely held beliefs were untenable. I tried to hang on to some sort of faith, but eventually came to the conclusion that the central claims of Christianity were false.
Most IFB church members are cradle believers. Born into the church, it is all they know. They have what is called a borrowed faith. While they can point to a time when they got saved, they can’t point to a time when they weren’t surrounded by IFB beliefs and practices. Unlike many mainline sects, IFB Christianity is all-encompassing: multiple church services each week, Sunday school, revivals, conferences, youth rallies, and the like daily reinforce the one true faith (IFB Christianity). When people ask me why it took me fifty years to deconvert, I point them to my childhood, the conditioning and indoctrination. How could I have become anything other than an IFB preacher? My path was paved with thousands of hours of preaching and teaching that reinforced my IFB beliefs. I had no reason to think I could be wrong. The Bible says . . . end of discussion, right?
That seemed to be the tail end of the big church growth movement of the Fundamental Baptists in America. I realize that not all of the pastors of that time were faithful but many of them were. Some people were embittered over bad experiences they had with a particular church or pastor.
The bigger question is why the IFB church growth movement died on the vine. Why did so many of these churches close their doors or become shells of what they once were? If these churches preached the faith once delivered to the saints, why are they in numeric decline? Hodges would have me think that some people were “embittered over bad experiences they had with a particular church or pastor.” Is he suggesting that I am bitter? Scores of people have left IFB churches. Did they all leave because they were bitter or because they had bad experiences? Maybe we should take a closer look at these “bad experiences.” If I could, I would love to share with Hodges the emails I have received from hurting IFB believers. They were misused and abused, and, at times, raped, assaulted, and sexually molested. Bullies abound in the IFB church movement.
Regardless, the IFB church movement is dying because of its unwillingness to adapt to the times. Their rigid beliefs keep them from adapting to the twenty-first century. Instead, they continue to operate using 1950s methodologies. Of course, they take great pride in being anti-cultural.
I would love to know who Hodges thinks were “faithful” pastors. I suspect he and I have different definitions of the word “faithful.”
While I am no longer a Christian, I pay close attention to the IFB church movement. We have family members who are IFB pastors, evangelists, and missionaries. I daily read IFB websites and blogs, and occasionally listen to IFB sermons. I am a member of my alma mater’s (Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan) Facebook group. As someone who is considered an expert on the IFB church movement, I believe it is important for me to keep in touch with the machinations of the movement. While there is a peripheral movement towards more progressive practices, the beliefs of the 1970s and 1980s are pretty much the same as those held by more “enlightened” IFB preachers today. Sure, some IFB churches use drums and guitars in worship now, women are permitted to wear pants, and men can have mustaches, beards, and longer hair, but the core beliefs and practices are still harmful.
In my case I happen to believe to this day that the position of the IFB churches was and is the right position to take although some perhaps executed those positions poorly. It’s sort of like former President Trump I guess. Great policies but many hated his attitude and demeanor.
I certainly take issue with disgraced former president Trump having “great policies.” Many of his policies are contrary to the teachings of Christ. Worse, he is a vile, disgusting human being. Yet, countless IFB Christians voted for him twice and will do so again if he is on the ballot in 2024. I will never understand how any Christian could vote for the man.
Anyway I’m not the smartest guy in the world and my IQ is not the highest.
I can make no judgment here because I don’t know Hodges.
But the whole Christianity thing makes perfect sense to me.
Has Hodges seriously examined and studied any other religion but his own? I doubt it. I would love to know how many religious books he has read that were NOT IFB or Evangelical. Since such reading is widely condemned or forbidden, I suspect Hodges doesn’t wander too far from his IFB roots. I would be glad to make some reading suggestions if Hodges is interested in challenging his beliefs. 🙂
If it’s not real I don’t know why we are here on earth. Not much to live or die for if there is no eternal life.
We are here on earth because a woman and a man had sex, the woman became pregnant, and nine months later gave birth to all the Bruces, Sams, and Pollys of the world. I don’t need a deity to understand and comprehend why I exist. My existence is self-evident.
Does Hodges really believe there is “not much to live or die for if there is no eternal life”? Has he really thought about the implications of a meaningless life without Jesus/eternal life? I don’t know about Hodges, but my life is filled with meaning and purpose — all without God, Jesus, the Bible, or Christianity. Since this life is the only one I will ever have, I want to make the most of every moment of every day. Even in my sickest days, I still try to make the most of the day before me. I am in a tough spot physically with little to no hope in sight, but I still try to do what I can to make the most of my life. Does Hodges really believe life would be meaningless without eternal life; that the only reason he is a good person is that a religious book told him that a mythical deity promises him a home in Heaven IF he believes the right things? Is the promise of eternal life the only reason Hodges isn’t a rapist or a serial killer? If so, by all means, keep on believing. If Hodges needs religion to be a good person, fine. I just wish he’d realize that MOST humans do not need his brand of Christianity to live good and prosperous lives. In fact, I can make a compelling case for the fact that Fundamentalist Christian beliefs keep many believers from being good people; that their beliefs require them to hate, marginalize, and condemn anyone who thinks differently from them.
Polly and I have been married for forty-five years. We have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. We own our own home, drive a nice late-model car, and have two indoor and two outside cats. Our children and grandchildren all live within thirty minutes of our home. Are not these things (people) enough to make life worth living? If all I had was my family, it would be enough.
I hope Hodges will really rethink the notion that he has nothing to live for without the promise of eternal life. Is not this life enough, to live it fully and without reservation?
I give the following advice to readers on my About page:
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
This approach to life has served me well, as it has countless other unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines.
And just imagine if hell is real after all(and I believe it is) then all those who scoffed at that are in real trouble.
Sadly, Hodges ends his email with an appeal to Pascal’s Wager and a reminder that HELL is real. The good news is that as an IFB teenager, I was gloriously, wonderfully saved, so, according to once saved always saved, I am still headed for Heaven when I die. Nothing can separate me from the love of God, right? Hodges could argue that I never was a Christian, but I am confident he can’t provide any evidence to justify such a claim.
As far as Pascal’s Wager is concerned, I wonder if Hodges has applied it to all the other religions of the world. Shouldn’t I also become a Muslim just in case the Muslim version of Hell is true? Shouldn’t I cover all my bases just in case the true God of the universe is Allah or any other deities humans worship are God? Instead, Hodges applies Pascal’s Wager and the threat of eternal damnation only to the tenets of Christianity.
But everybody is going to believe like they want to. Thanks for taking my comments.
My beliefs, for the most part, are based on evidence. I will become a Christian the moment someone provides me with sufficient reasons to believe. I am open to believing in God, but so far the evidence that has been provided to me is lacking or false. Hodges seems to be asking me to believe regardless of what I know to be true. I can’t do that. If there is a God, he knows exactly what it would take for me to come to faith in Christ. Instead, God hides or sends people to evangelize me who seem capable of only spouting Evangelical talking points or cliches. I am more than willing to have honest, open discussions about Christianity, but Bible quotes, sermonettes, or cheap evangelism methods ain’t going to cut it.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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If where you live is anything like northwest Ohio, new Evangelical churches are sprouting up like weeds in a gravel parking lot. You know — the weeds that keep returning no matter how much Roundup you spray on them. Here in Defiance County, they have spiffy new names, hiding the fact that they are generic, mostly Baptist or Charismatic churches. They present themselves as fresh, new, exciting places to worship God, complete with a relational pastor and the best damn worship band in town (props to the Ohio State marching band). One local new church called itself Fresh Life. Two years later, “Fresh Life” turned into the same old shit, different building, and the pastor felt called to go somewhere else.
Here in Defiance County, Ohio, there is zero need for new churches. We already have more than one hundred churches for 37,000 people. The population is aging and in decline, and almost everyone professes to be a Christian. God, guns, and Republican politics are on display everywhere one looks. Out-of-the-closet atheists are few, and even traditionally liberal churches tend to be conservative. Why, then, is there a plethora of new Evangelical churches?
I’ll give the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement credit for one thing: their churches are initially and primarily built on evangelism. Granted, they think everyone who doesn’t believe as they do is non-Christian and headed for Hell, but they do make a concerted effort to evangelize the “unchurched.”
I was taught in Bible college that the best way to start a church was to find the meanest, baddest man in town and win him to Jesus. If this man became a Christian and started living for Jesus, it would be the best possible advertisement for the church. Here in Defiance County, I am not the meanest, baddest man in town, but I am considered the resident atheist who hates God and Christianity. I would think that pastors would be lining up at my door trying to win the preacher-turned-atheist to Jesus. In the sixteen years my wife and I have lived in the shadow of five Evangelical churches, not one preacher has knocked on our door. Why is that?
In the 1970s, the Charismatics came to this area and began pillaging established churches. Overnight, churches lost membership and income. In the 1980s and 1990s, these new churches experienced meteoric membership and income growth. Today, these same churches are in decline as their members move on to the latest, greatest churches in town. You see, it’s not about Jesus, worship, or even doctrine. It’s all about getting the best show for the dollar. Entertainment-driven Evangelicals want to be pampered and have their “felt” needs met. Fail to do this and they will leave, complaining that they are not being fed or God is leading them elsewhere. If you want to study religiously-driven narcissism, just stop by one of these new Matt Chandler-Rick Warren-Joel Osteen-Ed Young-Andy Stanley-Perry Noble-Tim Keller-John Hagee-Rod Parsley-Steven Furtick-wanna-be churches. Services are consumer-driven buffets for fat Christians who are only interested in having their “felt” needs met.
Where do most of the members of these types of churches come from? Other local churches. Overwhelmingly, their growth is transfer growth. One new church in Defiance has multiple services filled with people who used to attend other local congregations. Church leaders think they are being blessed by God, but what they are really doing is cannibalizing other churches. I am sure there are a few new converts, but, for the most part, the growth is driven by people changing pews.
And here’s the thing . . . a decade or so from now, another new, glitzy, we-have-the-most-awesome-hip-preacher-in-town church will come to town and Christians will leave the old-new church for the new-new one. I have watched this happen time and again, like the rising and setting of the sun. Evangelicalism is driven not by devotion to God, concern for the lost, or care for the sick and hungry, but by a narcissistic need to be relevant. This is why they spend enormous amounts of money on buildings, staff, technology, and feed-lot fattening programs for Christians.
What’s really happening is that wandering Evangelicals are changing which club they belong to. And that’s fine as long as Evangelicals are willing to admit “why” they are doing so. However, they aren’t willing to acknowledge that their new hippity-hoppity church is just their old church with a bigger sound system, better drum player, more charismatic worship leader, better coffee, and a preacher who can really “speak” to them.
I watch from afar, amused at the self-absorbed attempts of churches to be churches in a culture that increasingly has no interest in what they are selling. Much the same as when a town becomes saturated with fast-food restaurants and they begin trying to steal each other’s customers, new Evangelical churches come to areas already saturated with Jesus and steal members from other churches. It’s fun to watch. May the best band win.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
An Evangelical woman named Barb Webb sent me a short email today that said:
It so heartbreaking to me that you didn’t meet the real Jesus. He is still there.
Webb then left the following comment on the post Why I Hate Jesus:
Heartbreaking to read that you were introduced to an imposter not the real Jesus.
I have no idea how much, if any, of my autobiogpraphical material Webb read. I suspect, not much. Her email and comment reflect ignorance about my story and past beliefs. No one with knowledge and understanding about my Christian past would ever say that I didn’t meet the “real” Jesus.
Who is the real Jesus? I believed in, worshipped, and followed the Jesus of the Bible. I assume this is Webb’s Jesus too. Of course, my story is different from Webb’s, so instead of trying to understand my story, she dismisses it out of hand, saying that I never was a real Christian.
What evidence does Webb have for the claim that I was introducted to a “false” Jesus? Is she saying my parents, pastors, Sunday school teachers, youth leaders, and college professors were all false Christians too; that everyone in my sphere of religious influence was deceived too?
I agree with one thing Webb said, “He [Jesus] is there.” 2,000 years ago, Jesus was executed by the Roman government. He was then buried in an unknown grave where he remains to this day. So, Webb is right, Jesus is still there, buried in an unknown grave somewhere in or near Jerusalem. He will remain there, never to be seen again. If Webb has evidence to the contrary, I would love to see it. (Quoting the Bible is a claim, not evidence.) She, of course, doesn’t, so all she has is a faith claim which I reject.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
