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Dr. David Tee Takes Issue With the Sacrilegious Humor Series

Bruce Gerencser 13 Comments
mocking religion
Cartoon by Peter Broelman

I ate a peanut butter and jelly sandwich an hour ago — Jiff creamy peanut butter, strawberry jam, on Aunt Millie’s buttermilk bread. Undoubtedly, the voyeur Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, will soon write a scathing blog post about Welch’s grape jelly being the only God-approved jelly. Tee is a lazy writer who often co-opts the work of others instead of writing original posts. Both Ben Berwick and I are his favorite targets. We really wish he would move on to other targets, but he won’t. In my case, he is bound and determined to let the world know that I am wrong, even if his “world” has ten inhabitants.

Tee writes about me several times every week. He refuses to use my name or link to this site. Both of these behaviors violate Internet/blogging norms, but he doesn’t care. Typically, I ignore his posts, but on occasion, I will respond to his nonsense (or his bigotry, homophobia, or support for child predators).

Yesterday, in a missive titled, Some Misc. Thoughts, Tee took issue with the Sacrilegious Humor Series on this site, and the post Sacrilegious Humor: Religion by George Carlin.

Tee wrote:

Attacks on believers

These are going to grow as unbelievers become bolder. Since we use the BG website we are using an example from that content here:

“This is the latest installment in the Sacrilegious Humor series. This is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a comedy bit that is irreverent towards religion, makes fun of religion, pokes fun at sincerely held religious beliefs, or challenges the firmly held religious beliefs of others, please email me the name of the bit or a link to it.”

The latest installment is using some comedy routine by George Carlin. We are well aware of his views on religion and Christianity, etc., and have listened to many of them. A militant atheist we know had one of his comments in his signature on an archaeology discussion forum we participated in years ago.

The problem with Mr. Carlin’s point of view is that he looks at the world after sin and corruption entered. Then he blames God for the problems everyone faces or has faced since the beginning of time.

Like most unbelievers and former Christians, he blames God for the mess even though God had nothing to do with the mess. Also like unbelievers and former Christians, he doe snot take the time to find the real criminal who is responsible for the mess the world is in.

They also do not honestly look at what God DID do. They ignore that like they ignore evil and accuse God of things he did not do while the real criminal gets off scot-free and is able to continue to deceive people and either ruin their faith or keep people from accepting Christ as their savior.

Number one, that is not fair and number two, that point of view is not honest. As you can see by that quote, the owner of that website is looking for more material to attack or encourage the attacking of believers.

That is not right either. If BG does not want to be a Christian, that is his choice. He should remain silent and not encourage others to follow his path or attack Christians. Christians are only trying to help unbelievers escape sin and hell.

That is not anything that someone should rise up and attack Christians and extension God, Jesus, and the Bible. Stopping spiritual aid to those in spiritual need is equal to some dictators who stopped food shipments destined to help their starving people.

There are numerous problems with Tee’s post, including bad theology and a heretical understanding of the sovereignty of God, but I want to focus on the last three paragraphs:

Number one, that is not fair and number two, that point of view is not honest. As you can see by that quote, the owner of that website is looking for more material to attack or encourage the attacking of believers.

That is not right either. If BG does not want to be a Christian, that is his choice. He should remain silent and not encourage others to follow his path or attack Christians. Christians are only trying to help unbelievers escape sin and hell.

That is not anything that someone should rise up and attack Christians and extension God, Jesus, and the Bible. Stopping spiritual aid to those in spiritual need is equal to some dictators who stopped food shipments destined to help their starving people.

According to Tee, I am unfair and dishonest. In fact, I have been more than fair to an interlocutor who has done nothing but attack me, call me names, and lie about me. I offered to let him write a guest post. He declined. I offered to debate him. He declined. He is not banned from commenting on this site, but he refuses to do so. Instead, he removed comments from his blog so no one could respond to his writing. Tee is only interested in preaching, not dialog.

When it comes to honesty, Tee defines dishonesty as any belief that is different from his. He has established himself as the final authority on the Bible, Christianity, archeology, biology, and sex positions. Okay, maybe not the last one. 🙂 Long-time readers have heard me say many times: certainty breeds arrogance. Tee, a Christian Missionary & Alliance trained Fundamentalist, is the epitome of this arrogance. I have been interacting with him for over two years. I have yet to see him change his mind one time. When you are right, you are right, right?

Is my goal to attack Christians? Of course not. Scores of Christians regularly read my writing. Unfortunately, Tee thinks his peculiar brand of Evangelicalism = True Christianity. The focus of my work is Evangelical Christianity. Sadly, Evangelicalism is rife with beliefs, practices, personal behaviors, and people that are worthy of ridicule and mockery. The idea that religion must not be made fun of is absurd. I refuse to grant religion that kind of authority in my life. I respect individual believers — or try to, anyway — but their beliefs and practices? I respect that which is worthy of my respect. If Evangelicals don’t like being ridiculed, I suggest they change their ways (and let me be clear, some atheists are worthy of ridicule too).

I want to rewrite one of Tee’s paragraphs. Tee said:That is not right either. If BG does not want to be a Christian, that is his choice. He should remain silent and not encourage others to follow his path or attack Christians. Christians are only trying to help unbelievers escape sin and hell.

That’s not right either. If Derrick Thiessen doesn’t want to be an atheist (or Catholic, Buddhist, or Hindu), that is his choice. He should remain silent and not encourage others to follow his path or attack atheists. Atheists are only trying to help Christians escape irrationality and ignorance; to encourage them to embrace the only life they will ever have.

Checkmate.

Let’s try the same thing with the next paragraph. Tee wrote: “That is not anything that someone should rise up and attack Christians and extension God, Jesus, and the Bible. Stopping spiritual aid to those in spiritual need is equal to some dictators who stopped food shipments destined to help their starving people.”

That is not anything that someone should rise up and attack atheism/humanism and by extension skepticism, reason, and rationality. Stopping aid to those in intellectual need is equal to some Evangelical preachers who refuse to let their parishioners read books and websites that might challenge their beliefs and worldview; information that is meant to help people starving from a lack of knowledge.

Checkmate.

What we have here is a clash of worldviews. I am more than willing to interact with Tee and any other Evangelical on our competing worldviews, but Tee isn’t interested in such things. And neither are most Evangelical preachers. They know what they know, but, unfortunately, they are unable to fathom being wrong. Tee’s favorite quote comes from the movie Matilda:

I’m smart, you’re dumb, I’m right, you’re wrong, I’m big, you’re small.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Dr. David Tee Goes on a Rant About Transgender Women — Part Three

Bruce Gerencser 13 Comments
david thiessen
David Thiessen is the tall man in the back

Over the past week, Dr. David Tee, a Fundamentalist preacher whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, unleashed two vitriolic rants about transgender women on his blog. You can read his posts and my response here and here. Showing his inability to feel shame, Thiessen unleashed yet another post today about transgender women.

Here’s what he had to say:

The Netherlands just happens to be the most recent country to say: The best-looking woman is…. a MAN.[Subjectively, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There is no objective standard for “best-looking woman (or man.) ]

If this problem was not so serious [It’s not, but Tee is convinced, despite evidence to the contrary, that transgender women (and LGBTQ people in general) are an existential threat to Western civilization Transgender demographics], we [I] would be laughing not only at this contestant but all those who support it. What partial;y [sic] bothers [how is someone partially bothered?] us [me] is that the real women [heterosexual] in this and other contests are not feeling insulted by this decision. [Maybe because they aren’t homophobic bigots as Tee is?] Nor are the rest of the women in the world.

This is a very serious insult [No, I suspect most women think being called a bitch or cunt to their face is a serious insult.] made against [heterosexual] women. To think that a man pretending to be a woman is declared the most beautiful [beauty is not the only criterion for winning a beauty contest.] in the Netherlands or other countries that allow fake [transgender] women to enter these contests.

We [I] saw the 1st runner-up and there is no way [again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder] that the ‘winner’ was more beautiful than her. [Why is Tee watching beauty pageants to start with? Personally, I am not a fan. Is not Tee lusting by looking at other women in this matter? Besides, I thought inner beauty is what Evangelicals valued most?] It is a travesty and a tragic turn of events to allow a pretender [transgender woman] to get the throne [crown]. However, we [I] cannot laugh because [I get a boner every time I watch a beauty pageant] this [transgender] person and many like him [her] as well as their [her] supporters are just thinking about evil and doing evil just like it was in the days of Noah. [Evidently, Tee is a mind reader. He is usurping God, is he not, when he says he knows what is in the hearts of transgender women and their supporters? Of course, there was no such thing as the “days of Noah.” Genesis is fiction, David. How many times do I need to tell you this?]

They [Transgender women] are also not getting the mental health therapy [because many of them don’t need it. And those who do have a hard time paying for it or finding a therapist trained in their specific needs.] Because the liberals, democrats, and others on the left champion the so-called [actual, constitutional] rights of these mentally ill [everyday, ordinary people], they are barred from receiving the proper help [Biblical counseling, reparative therapy, casting out of demons].

No [bigoted, homophobic] Christian should be happy with this situation as these contests insult your wives, daughters, mothers, and sisters. They also rob those and other women of opportunities and awards that are rightfully theirs. [What, to win a fucking crown or get their 15 minutes of fame? I have a wife, sister, daughters, and daughters-in-law. Not one of them thinks a beauty pageant-winning transgender woman has robbed them of anything. Tee is projecting his homophobic bigotry on heterosexual women.]

It is not Christian love, loving your neighbor, or loving others as Jesus loved [Jesus had absolutely nothing to say about LGBTQ people. Tee knows this, but he projects his homophobic bigotry on Jesus too.] when you support these mentally ill people [transgender women]. Then allow them to practice their delusions in public as well as include them in events they have no right entering.

Supporting these people is not making a healthy society but destroying it.

“They treat us as monsters.” They are monsters for only a monster would mutilate their bodies [gender reassignment surgery] and let their delusions rule their lives. [Many transgender people never have gender reassignment surgery.] Only monsters would ruin events for innocent real women and erase women from society. [OMG! Transgender women are “erasing” heterosexual women from society? Compare the number of transgender women in America — less than one percent — to the number of heterosexual, lesbian, and bisexual women. Why, this is akin to saying Mauritius is an existential threat to the United States.]

But as Christians, we are to treat them like we want to be treated thus these people need to be sent to therapy [forced reeducation camps], and barred [locked up in prison] from entering mainstream society until they are cured of their delusions. They are not to be supported in this manner but housed, fed, and treated like human beings who are sick and in need of a doctor.

At no time can we support their desires because those desires are sinful, wrong, and not biblical [The United States and Western society, for the most part, are secular. What the Bible says plays no part in law and governance.] They harm innocent women through their inclusion and demands to be included and seen as women [the record is skipping, David. Bump the record player]. There is nothing Christian in them that can be supported. [Of course, the same can be said about Tee; a man who abandoned his family; a man who fled the United States to avoid legal problems; a man who didn’t pay child support for his child; a man who routinely shows no evidence of the fruit of the Spirt and daily ignores and disobeys Jesus’ teachings on how to treat transgender women.]

They need proper spiritual help to overcome these fantasies. They also need to be banned from all things related to women. [Jesus, talk about being all Hitler-like about transgender women.] The reverse is true if there are women pretending to be men. [Tee wants all transgender people to be incarcerated until they are “cured.”]

While we [I] do not condone hate messages or threats [liar, liar, pants on fire], we [I] also do not like these people forcing their delusions on society. [Using Tee’s illogical logic, how are transgender women any different from Evangelicals who try to force their delusions on society? Should we have them arrested and incarcerated until they are cured of their delusions?] Or forcing society to accept their pretend identities are normal. They are not normal but deep cries for help.

Including them in these and other female events is NOT providing the help they need. We need to protect our women from this psychological invasion of those who cannot accept themselves for who they are and how God made them.

The LGBTQ preferences are sinful, not normal, not biblical and not to be supported or accepted. The only thing we can do with and for these people is to treat them as Jesus would and get them the correct help they need [and arrest and incarcerate them until they see the “light.”]

— end of quote —

Please share your thoughts in the comment section. This should be fun! 🙂

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Dr. David Tee Goes on a Rant About Transgender Women — Part Two

Bruce Gerencser 16 Comments
david thiessen
David Thiessen is the tall man in the back

Yesterday, Dr. David Tee, a Fundamentalist preacher whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, unleashed a vitriolic rant about transgender women on his blog. You can read his post and my response here. Showing his inability to feel shame, Thiessen unleashed yet another post about transgender women — one more awful than the first.

Here’s what he had to say:

Two days ago we wrote an article called ‘Let’s Cut the Bull’ and as usual we got a response from one of the two people [Bruce Gerencser and Ben Berwick] we use as examples. But we are not going to deal with his complete response [because we have no defense for our hateful words], just one sentence.

That sentence tells everyone that he and the other guy do not do research, listen to the news, or in any way pull their heads out of the sand to see what is going on in the real world. We include both here because we have had to deal with the same problem from both of them– they do not do any real or honest research before speaking. [Please read Thiessen’s complete post if you want to see his “research.” What you will find is a list of anecdotes.]

please provide empirical evidence for the claim that transgender women are materially hurting heterosexual women and girls (BG website)

Those words were placed in brackets or parenthesis if you like the more technical term, behind these words- We cannot sit on the sidelines on this issue as they are hurting you if they hurt your wife or your female children [Thiessen provided no empirical evidence that this is systemically happening — just a handful of anecdotes].

There is a deep cost to women [please provide empirical evidence for this claim] by allowing men pretending to be women to exist in normal society. We will have to deal with this in two parts as one is physical harm which has reached the news frequently.

The other is more psychological as fake [transgender] women continue to do damage to real [heterosexual] women and girls.

….

We do not want to use the word transgender here because these men are not real women and should not be identified as being able to make a transition that is impossible to make. [Picture Thiessen standing on a corner, ears stopped up and hands over his eyes, saying, “I don’t see any transgender people. He is deliberately ignorant of what is right in front of him. Transgender people have always existed, going as far back as the third century. Some scholars argue that eunuchs in the Bible are intersex people. I wonder if Thiessen read Transgender History and What Does the Bible Say About Transgender People? My money is on NO! Thiessen’s typical “research” is seeking out articles that prove his point or agree with him. Fundamentalists don’t do actual scholarly research. Their minds are already made up. Certainty breeds arrogance, and the result is Thiessen’s anti-transgender posts.]

….

Men are stronger than [some] women no matter what changes they have made to their bodies. it is not Christian [Bible verse, please] to support this inclusion in female athletics. [I agree. Let’s have an actual discussion about transgender women participating in athletics with biological women. Of course, Thiessen doesn’t want to have a discussion. All he wants to do is preach. If he would bother to pay attention, he would find out that many transgender women have their own misgivings about participating in sports with biological women. Thiessen can’t know this because he’s never spoken to an actual transgender person.]

….

This damage can be as devastating [please provide empirical evidence for your claim] as physical damage done by fake [transgender] women. Women have had it rough since the beginning of time [thanks to misogynistic men such as Thiessen] and this so-called better modern era [Derrick pines for the good old days of the 1950s] where equal rights [evidently, Thiessen thinks women shouldn’t have equal rights] have been established is not doing any better than when women were considered property. [Did Thiessen really say women are no better off today than when they were chattel property? Really? I mean, really?]

The effort to be ‘inclusive’ has only succeeded in proving that [some] biological men are biologically stronger than [some] women. It has done nothing but harm women in a variety of ways [which are? Come on, Derrick, unleash your inner bigot]. You will not find one Bible verse condoning or giving permission for this type of inclusion [and we won’t find Bible verses for all sorts of human behaviors].

….

Other psychological abuses that fake women do to real women come through bullying [bullying takes place in every cohort].

….

They [biological women] are outcasts and pariahs [I am rolling on the floor laughing at this absurd statement] as the fake [transgender] men and women have chosen an abnormal path that cannot be accepted as normal or right. The only reason the fake [transgender] women and their supporters fear real [heterosexual] men and women is because the truth of the latter destroys the delusions of the former and makes them realize that they have been deceived.

….

The fake [transgender] men and women are forced to see that they are not who they pretend to be and then must deal with the truth. The author of that quote was deceived by the outward appearance of the fake [transgender] men and women she met in San Francisco.

We [I] say deceived because even bad people can be nice. One guy, and we [I] forget where we [I] read this account but it is not original with us [me], said that when he got a job as a corrections officer in one prison one of his thoughts was he would be able to tell child molesters from regular criminals and people.

He was surprised at how nice and polite those child molesters were and how easy it was for them to be accepted as normal men and fit into regular society. Being nice and kind is not always a sign of a Christian as evil does masquerade as angels of light as the Bible says. [In other words, transgender people might be nice and kind, but in their hearts, they are like child molesters.]

….

This issue is not about a threat to one’s identity but about how completely wrong it is to allow these fake [transgender] men and women to think the way they do and then let them into normal society like nothing is wrong. [Thiessen believes transgender people should be arrested and incarcerated (and perhaps, executed). He does not believe the same about heterosexual rapists and child molesters. He thinks all they need to do is repent and get right with God.]

….

Sure, a woman can take chemicals to boost their testosterone and strength, as well as mutilate their bodies to look like a man. BUT that act does not change the truth or reality.

There are only 2 genders and only 2 gender identities. [Again, Thiessen deliberately confuses biological sex and gender. This is what happens when the Bible is your science textbook.] You are either a man or a woman and neither can change that fact. Not only is this biblical as the Bible tells us God made male and female only, but it is also proven scientifically [this is a lie].

Science backs the Bible in this case. Those who think they can change their gender and those that support this delusion are the ones with the problem. They need help [Jesus] and it is up to the Christians to not only provide the truth but also provide the correct spiritual help to lead these deceived people back to reality.

It is not Christian to allow these [transgender] people to harm women, invade women’s athletics and other events and it is definitely not Christian to go along with this deception. Christians should recognize this as a spiritual problem [please provide Bible verse that says being transgender is a “spiritual” problem. I can provide Bible verses, Derrick, that say divorce, failing to provide for your children, and abandoning one’s family are sins. I will be glad to share them with you if they are not in your Bible.] that needs the correct spiritual effort to heal these deceived groups of people.

….

Telling someone they are deceived and wrong, as well as doing the wrong thing is not a phobia or fear of something. Nor is it bigotry. It is trying to get those who adopt this trend to see the truth about themselves and what God has done at creation. [Thiessen is responding to me calling him a homophobe and a bigot. I stand by my words.]

Just as a side note, the lead-in that caught our attention is wrong. trans women are not real women. They are fake women who have a mental illness that is spiritual in nature and they are in need of help.

….

The so-called trans women do not have one body part [come on, Derrick, say it: penis or vagina] or process [what is a process?] that a real woman has. They [transgender women] are never going to be woman no matter how much money they spend on cosmetics and surgery. The reverse is true for those women trying to be men through this trend.

— end of quote —

Please share your thoughts in the comment section. This should be fun! 🙂

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Dr. David Tee Goes on a Rant About Transgender Women — Part One

Bruce Gerencser 11 Comments
david thiessen
David Thiessen is the tall man in the back

Over the weekend, Fundamentalist preacher Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, unleashed a rant about transgender women. I will leave it to readers to respond to his homophobic rant.

Here’s what Thiessen had to say in a post titled Let’s Cut the Bull [I can’t believe Thiessen cursed] :

Why are feminists, who fought for equal rights for decades, not saying anything? This is one of the major comments we see when we read the comment section under different articles about transgender activity in women’s athletics and other events.

Maybe like those women whose rights have been trampled by the rush to support mentally ill transgender its [catch that? “its], they are afraid to speak out against a minute minority because of the harmful backlash that occurs.

What has brought us [me] to this point of being so blunt? This article – Transwoman model wins Miss Universe Netherlands in historic moment: ‘I DID IT’

What is this ‘historic moment’ telling everyone else in the world? That the Netherlands beauty pageant officials feel that the prettiest woman in their country is a man disguised as a woman [yes, and Thiessen is an asshole disguised as a Christian].

If we [I] were women [a woman], we [I] would be highly insulted by this decision as well as protesting the win. Yet, we [I] have not read or heard any woman’s group speaking out against this travesty. It is their competition and their prizes that are being taken by this IT and those that support it.

Are these women groups so flabbergasted that they cannot speak? The audacity of this decision to let a man win a woman’s competition deserves more vocal outrage than what we have seen.

This is not a new insult. In the article, it has been recorded as happening in other countries and at least one state in America. Those decisions came a few years ago giving the women’s groups ample opportunity to frame their arguments and build a strong protest against these moves.

Allowing a transgender to compete is NOT loving your neighbor because only 1 neighbor seems to be loved while the many other contestants and all the women of the world are harmed.

If you want to love your transgender neighbor, then get them mental health counseling and refuse to enroll them in different sports and events reserved for real women. [I agree, Derrick. PLEASE get professional help.]

There will be supporters of the transgender crowd that will talk about the rights of the transgendered person. However, the transgendered person already had rights under their biological birth gender.

This is called special rights because it is allowing men to pretend to be women and gives them access to rewards and benefits many real women get access to. This is like the same-sex marriage issue.

People were saying that lesbian and male homosexuals have a right to marry the person they love. They already had that right to marry but the LG part of the LGBTQ community refused to follow the rules and demanded special rights [what special rights? Justice and equal protection under the law is the standard].

No, transgenders do not have the right to participate in women’s athletics or events. They are NOT women. To allow them to participate in such activities or even dress in women’s changing rooms, use women’s bathrooms, etc., is not only special rights but is also wrong.

We cannot afford to allow the unbelieving world to wipe out the lines between good and evil, right and wrong, moral and immorality. The latter they have been doing for decades as well by accepting adultery and pre-marital sex as normal behavior [says a man who has a few secrets in his closet].

….

This is the excuse and one of the verses many sympathizers to the LGBTQ community use to support these perverted sexual practices. They use a few other verses as well. But they are misapplying and misunderstanding what those verses mean.

Loving your neighbor does not mean you trample the rights and privacy of the majority in favor of the minute minority or other wrongdoers. Loving your neighbor is not allowing perversions to enter the marriage institute, the church, or women’s events. [Derrick, how do transgender women harm you in any way? None that I can think of.]

Loving your neighbor is not affirming, accepting, or supporting that which is wrong. [Jesus said it was, Derrick. Read the Sermon on the Mount.] True loving your neighbor would be to stand firm and not let the boundaries between right and wrong, etc., be wiped out.

It means getting the proper help to the parents of and the actual child who thinks they are not the gender they were born as. Loving your neighbor means stopping people from sinning by their accepting, affirming, supporting, and encouraging sinful behavior. [Who the fuck are you, Derrick, to stop anyone from “sinning?” Mind your own damn business.]

Loving your neighbor does not mean leading people to sin and then calling it good. Loving your neighbor does not allow pretend men and women to expose themselves to those of the gender they pretend to be.

Loving your neighbor means protecting all your neighbors, not a select few who refuse to accept who they are and take great strides to lose themselves in the deception that plagues them.

If you want to help these people, get them to the right therapists [says a man who desperately needs therapy] who will not encourage this deception and seek to cure it. These people do have rights but it is not the rights they think they have. The rights they have belong to their biological gender not the mentally ill perception they have of themselves. [According to Thiessen, transgender are mentally ill.]

….

Intersex is not an indication that there are more than 2 genders [Yes, it is]. Genesis reminds us that there are only 2 genders when it says that God made them MALE & FEMALE [It also reminds us that there are multiple gods. Checkmate]. No mistakes were made at birth, and no misassignment was done at birth.

It is up to the person to accept who they were born as and fight off the deception used on people to confuse them about their gender. Let’s get this straight as well. DO NOT blame God for this condition or for your assumed gender identity. [God is sovereign, is he not?]

God did NOT create this condition. He may know who was going to be intersex or think that they were assigned the wrong gender at birth. If you want to be mad at anyone, be mad at evil who DID cause this problem. [Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.]

God HAS provided a cure but a lot of the time the cure is lost due to the unbelief of doctors, psychiatrists, therapists, and other adults or the unbelief of the parents. We cannot fail to mention those Christians who listen to unbelievers on this issue.

….

Your gender and gender identity are decided from the moment of conception. The DNA inside the fertilized egg creates the baby that is to be born. There is nothing in the reproduction process that manipulates the DNA and changes the gender from a male to a female or vice versa. [Thiessen doesn’t understand the difference between sex and gender.]

Since God does not make mistakes [yet he drowned millions of mistakes in the flood], you were given the gender [sex] at birth you are supposed to be. While humans have free choice [not according to the Bible], that does not mean that their gender choices are free from being sinful and that includes gender identity.

Changing your gender or gender identity is not a biblical choice. It is a failure to accept who you truly are and exposes your rejection of that identity and desire to be something else [says a man who moved from the United States/Canada to South Korea/Philippines to be someone else]. Unfortunately, you cannot change your gender or gender identity [exactly, and that’s why some people are transgender].

You are either a male or a female and the serenity prayer [egads! Extra-Biblical source!] helps you understand what you are to do- accept the things you cannot change. The Bible is there to help you see the truth and help you accept who you are [slave owner and polygamist].

….

We bring this theory [evolution] into the conversation because it is important to know something about it. If you are honest in your studies of this theory, you will notice one very glaring omission in all the lessons taught about this ‘life development process.’

There is no mechanism or source in the theory of evolution for gender development. There is also no source for corruption to take place if evolution were true. In other words, the existence of intersex, transgender thinking, etc., proves evolution false.

There is no source for corruption, death, illness, and other issues in the theory of evolution. No scientist has identified the origin location for these issues either. In other words, these things should not exist if evolution were true.

If evolution were true, there would be no sin or evil and we would be living with Noah and Moses right now with no fear of dying. An evolutionary scientist may claim that these issues came from animals but where did the animals get it?

There is absolutely no source for these issues in an evolutionary developed world. Evolution does not explain anything about this world. [These five paragraphs are the stupidest things Thiessen has ever written.]

….

Men, we are charged with looking after women [you might want to ask women if they want looking after] and if the real women of this world are too afraid to speak out [something tells me Thiessen will learn that women are not afraid to respond to his nonsense] against this travesty and violation of their rights, etc., then we must do it for them [thank you, Derrick, for helping these poor, helpless women out].

We must lead the way and build strong arguments, and find real solutions to protect the women we love. We cannot place this ball in their court and have them go it alone. [Oh my, women would be helpless without men.] It is time, especially for Christian men, for men to stand up and do something about this attack on women. [Do what, Derrick? Come on, speak what is really on your mind. Tell us what you really want to do to transgender people. Arrest? Incarceration? Execution? Own your vile beliefs, Derrick. You know the Bible says fornicators, adulterers, and homosexuals should be executed. Oh wait, that means you would be executed too.]

….

We cannot sit on the sidelines on this issue as they are hurting you if they hurt your wife or your female children [please provide empirical evidence for the claim that transgender women are materially hurting heterosexual women and girls], even in letting fake women ruin women’s athletics and other events. Take the leadership in this so that women do not lose their freedoms, their rights, and their identity. Make sure to lead them in the right way to go. [Yes, put bridles on these fillies and lead them in paths of righteousness. Let me know if you get kicked in the head.]

— end of quote —

Please share your thoughts in the comment section. This should be fun! 🙂

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

True Christians

Bruce Gerencser 12 Comments
one true religion

Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, is a Christian Missionary & Alliance trained preacher. As Evangelical preachers are wont to do, Tee has cobbled together his own peculiar version of Christianity and what it means to be a True Christian®. I have read enough of Tee’s posts to know that he can, at times, promote heretical beliefs — heretical when measured by core Evangelical beliefs about salvation by grace. There are times when it seems he is preaching salvation by works — a soteriology that can certainly be justified with the Bible (as all soteriologies can).

In a post titled Can Christianity Help With Politics? Tee posits that “There are many benefits to having true Christians run governments.” Tee goes on to give his definition of a True Christian®:

By true Christians, we mean those that correctly follow Christ.

According to Tee, a True Christian® is someone who “correctly” follows Christ. What does it mean to “correctly” follow Jesus? What does Tee mean when he uses the word “correctly?” I assume he thinks a person must believe and do certain things to be a True Christian. I know he believes transgender people can’t be True Christians®, but Evangelical preachers who rape and sexually molest children are just True Christians® who need to humbly say “my bad, Jesus.”

Tee has made it clear that he is absolutely certain he is right in doctrine and deed. No one can correct him, especially unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines such as Bruce Gerencser. The moment I deconverted, I magically lost everything I know about the Bible, theology, and Christianity. Evidently, Gawd gives a Men in Black mind wipe to Christians the moment they deconvert. Of course, this is absurd.

There’s no such thing as True Christianity®. According to Pew Research, there are about 2.4 billion Christians in the world; 279 million in the United States. I suspect these numbers are grossly inflated, but we can conclude from them there are a lot of Christians in the world and in the United States. I live in rural northwest Ohio — the land of God, Trump, and Guns. God said humans can’t hide from him. Even in the depths of Hell, he is there. I feel the same way about Christianity. While American Christianity is in decline, there are few places I can go to escape Jesus and his merry band of followers. They are like a rash you can’t get rid of. (I am primarily speaking of Evangelicals and conservative Catholics. When I go out to dinner with the pastor of the local United Church of Christ, my rash magically goes away.)

Put one hundred Christians in a room and ask them to define core Christian beliefs and you will get a plethora of answers. You will find disagreement on salvation, sin, baptism, communion, creation, and other beliefs. Yet hardcore Fundamentalists such as Tee are certain that their beliefs and practices are straight from the mouth of God; that their interpretations of the Bible are absolutely right; that their beliefs are the standard by which all (alleged) Christians are measured.

These disagreements and internecine wars over what constitutes a True Christian® are a sure sign that Christianity is a human invention, or whatever Christianity might have been has been so obscured and adulterated by 2,000 years of organized Christianity that its essence has been lost.

Jesus told his followers that there were two great commandments: love God with all your heart, soul, and might, and love your neighbor as yourself. Pray tell, where can such a Christianity be found? Where can we find a preacher or church that takes seriously Jesus’ words in the Sermon on the Mount or his words in Matthew 25? From 1995-2002, I pastored Our Father’s House in West Unity, Ohio. I remember telling the congregation that Christianity (and the world) would be better served if we focused our energy on living out the teachings of Jesus found in the Sermon on the Mount; that we had become distracted from the essence of faith.

As Evangelicals and conservative Catholics wage unholy war against anyone and everyone who is different from them, I wonder if they stop to consider that maybe, just maybe, in their attempt to “Christianize” the world they have lost all sense of what it means to truly be a follower of Jesus (or a decent human being)?

As I have said countless times in my writing, certainty breeds arrogance. When Evangelicals are certain that their versions of God and Jesus are the right ones, and their interpretations of the Bible are infallible, there’s no way to reach them. But, Bruce, you were a Fundamentalist, and now you are not! Certainly, that is true, but it wasn’t until I entertained the possibility that I could be wrong that my mind was open to the possibility of change. Until then, I was certain I was right. Change is hard, and unless we humble ourselves before our own ignorance, we will never know how much we don’t know.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Dr. David Tee is a Petty Man

Bruce Gerencser 19 Comments
dr david tee

Dr. David Tee, whose real name in Derrick Thomas Thiessen, is a Christian Missionary & Alliance preacher without a church to pastor; a man who abandoned a child years ago and fled to the Philippines to avoid legal accountability; a thief who regularly uses content from this site without giving proper attribution; an obsessive-compulsive man when to comes to my writing and that of my British friend Ben Berwick. He cannot and will not stop molesting us.

Tee has written more than one hundred posts about me, and a substantial number of articles about Ben. Over the past six weeks, Tee has written a post that mentions me every few days. Ben has figured out how to completely block him from accessing his site, but I’ve been unable to do so. There was a time when I would respond to his attacks, lies, and mischaracterizations, but I no longer do so. I only respond now when he says something so egregious that I feel compelled to reply.

As you know, I’ve taken a break from writing. (We are going to a baseball game in Cincinnati on Monday.) I’ve been trying to catch up on a few things, especially emails and the Black Collar Crime Series. My goal this coming week is to get my podcast up and running. Imagine my surprise, then, to read this from Tee:

They [Ben Berwick and Bruce Gerencser]are never honest. The owner of the BG website [The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser] said he was taking a break from writing, yet aside from 3 guest posts, he has published more articles since that notice went [where?] than any other given week he was writing.

He then goes on to say this about Ben:

Honesty and integrity are two things we do not expect from unbelievers. But we can call them cowards as their actions are just that, cowardly. The MM [Meerkat Musings] website owner [Ben Berwick] is exactly like the little boy who didn’t get his way and takes his ball and goes home.

He wants to call the shots even though he has no credibility, or legitimacy to call the shots. We laugh at him and his actions because he has not grown up but likes to bully those who are different from himself.

He is supposed to be an adult yet acts in the most childish manner. he should change the name of the website to chicken little. If we are being harsh it is because his actions exemplify everything we have just written.

We are getting more of a laugh than anything else and write this in a lighthearted manner even though he will make false accusations about us. He always does.

What a prick. Tee says he is a follower of Jesus, but his behavior says that he is anything but.

Most of the readers of this blog understand that I took a break from writing. The posts that have been published recently, don’t fall into that category. Sounds of Sacrilege, Sounds of Fundamentalism, and the Black Collar Crime Series? These series’ require very little work on my part. I use templates that allow me to push out content quickly. I have a big backlog of potential posts for these series. So, during my time away from writing, I’m trying to clear this backlog.

Of course, all Tee cares about is calling me a liar.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

What Does it Take to Change the Minds of IFB Believers?

Bruce Gerencser 5 Comments
change your mind

My friend Eric Skwarczynski, the publisher of the Preacher Boys Podcast, had this to say on Facebook today:

Been thinking quite a bit this month about why we change beliefs.

So often I release a horrific story of abuse within a church and it seems to have no effect within IFB circles. They simply deny it’s part of a larger problem and move right along until the next case happens, or the next case happens.

No matter how much effort I throw into putting a story together — it can feel like a drop in a bucket when it comes to actually moving any sort of needle.

I’m curious, if you’ve left a toxic church environment you used to blindly submit to, what was the catalyst?

What finally opened your eyes?

I want to be more thoughtful in crafting content to persuade people who legitimately don’t see these issues to open THEIR eyes.

Those of us who are neck-deep in the waters of Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) abuse and scandal often wonder how anyone could still be an IFB church member. We said the same thing about Roman Catholics. Can’t people see the perversion and evil all around them? How can they justify continuing to support these institutions and pastors with their attendance and money?

While some people do exit IFB churches stage left, never to return, most members stay committed to the cause. Some of them will change churches, but hold on to the same core beliefs that fueled the scandals. My wife’s uncle, the late Jim Dennis, (please see The Family Patriarch is Dead: My Life With James Dennis) pastored the Newark Baptist Temple in Newark, Ohio for fifty years. A strident IFB congregation, the Baptist Temple had several major sexual abuse scandals during Dennis’ tenure. In each instance, the scandal was not talked about from the pulpit. Church members were told to trust that their pastor and deacons had everything under control. Polly’s parents attended the Baptist Temple during the time of these scandals. When I asked about what exactly happened — I had a general idea — Mom and Dad told me they didn’t know. And here’s the thing, Jim Dennis was their brother-in-law. He never told them what happened. There should have been a public meeting on these scandals so there were no questions about who did what, where, when, and how, and what the church was doing to make sure that such criminal behavior never happened again. One man went to prison for his crimes, but today? He is faithfully serving Jesus in another IFB church.

Many IFB adherents think that sexual misconduct by pastors, evangelists, missionaries, youth directors, deacons, Sunday school teachers, nursery workers, bus drivers, and janitors, to name a few, is rare. Thus, they use the “few bad apples” argument to justify their continued support of the IFB church movement. Of course, for those of us who regularly report on IFB scandals, we know there are a hell of a lot more rotten apples than eyes-closed believers are willing to admit.

Many IFB adherents believe that their sect/church/pastor has the corner on truth. In fact, they are absolutely certain that their church is the right church; their pastor is a supernaturally called man of God. That is, until their pastor says something they disagree with, then they are ready to leave and find a church that preaches the truth; one that “feeds” them. Such lateral moves are common, with people entering through the front door, and others leaving — often with the pastor’s boot in their ass — through the back door.

When you believe your church and your pastor are the repositories of truth, you are often more willing to justify bad behavior within the church, thinking that “God” will sort everything out. Of course, one thing is for certain, God never sorts anything out. It is up to people of courage and conviction to do what is right, regardless of how it affects the “testimony” of the church. I would rather be known for being the church that swiftly dealt with a child molester than one that covered his crimes up and protected him. The late Jack Hyles, pastor of First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana, upon learning of his son David’s serial sexual predation, covered things up and sent him off to pastor an IFB church in Texas. David Hyles continues to minister in some corners of the IFB world. Why? Well, Jesus forgave him, so shouldn’t everyone else do the same? Hyles refuses to own his past criminal behavior, and has not attempted to make restitution to teen girls and adult women he harmed. Hyles has repeatedly stated that God has forgiven him and that’s all that matters.

IFB churches are often multi-generational institutions. When you are born into a church and a belief system, it is hard to walk away, even when you know you should. When your parents, siblings, grandparents, and in-laws attend the same IFB church, it is difficult to move on to another church or stop attending church altogether. I know several atheists who, for the sake of their families, still attend IFB churches. I couldn’t do it, but I do understand why they do.

I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years. Thirty-two of those years were spent in the IFB church movement. I attended IFB churches as a youth. I was saved, baptized, and called to preach in an IFB church, Trinity Baptist Church in Findlay, Ohio. I attended an IFB college, married an IFB preacher’s daughter, and pastored three IFB churches and two IFB adjacent churches. IFB blood coursed through my veins for much of my life. I was totally committed to IFB beliefs and practices. Yet, here I am today, an unrepentant atheist; a man labeled a heretic, false prophet, and apostate. What happened?

Certainly, the Jack and David Hyles scandals in the 1980s certainly made me wonder about the moral foundation of the IFB church movement, but that wasn’t enough to make me walk away. The constant internecine wars among IFB churches, pastors, and institutions caused me to wonder about the movement too. So much ugliness, hatred, judgmentalism, and finger-pointing. How can we call ourselves followers of the Prince of Peace and act like this?

By the late 80s, I abandoned the IFB moniker and embraced a different form of Baptist Fundamentalism, Sovereign Grace, and Reformed Baptist. While this move delivered me from some of the worst excesses of the IFB church movement, its poison remained to some degree until I pastored my last church in 2003. After leaving the IFB church movement, I pastored a Sovereign Grace Baptist church, a Christian Union church, a non-denominational church, and a Southern Baptist church. All of these churches had IFB tendencies theologically, but less so when it came to social strictures.

Stepping away from the IFB church movement allowed me to question and doubt. Not big questions, at first, but questions, nonetheless. As an IFB pastor, I was the answer man, not the question man. Congregants expected me to be some sort of oracle, a library of divine truth. Thus saith the Lord? Nah, thus saith Bruce what saith the Lord. Most congregants were infrequent students of the Bible. Were they bad Christians? Of course not. They had jobs, families, and homes to tend to. I, on the other hand, could spend hours a day and days each week reading and studying the Bible. I had the leisure time that they did not to devote myself to God, the Bible, and the ministry.

The first crack in my Christian facade came when I started reading books outside of the Evangelical rut; authors considered mainline, progressive, liberal, emerging church, or even secular. With knowledge came more questions and doubts. I determined to follow the path wherever it led. I met truth in the middle of the road, refusing to back up or go around. This journey ultimately led me to conclude that the central claims of Christianity were untrue; that the Bible was not divinely inspired, inerrant, or infallible.

Ultimately, it was the freedom to ask questions, read books from any author, and wander the path of life that led to my deconversion. Come the last Sunday in November, it will be fifteen years since Polly and I walked out the door of the Ney United Methodist Church, never to return.

Over the past decade and a half, I have learned that arguing with devoted IFB believers doesn’t work. They think they are “right” and you are “wrong.” Dr. David Tee continues to rage against me and the readers of this blog. One claim he has made countless times is that unbelievers have nothing to offer to the world; that they don’t know anything about the Bible; that their words should be ignored. While Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, wasn’t IFB, he was part of a sect, the Christian and Missionary Alliance (CMA), that had IFB tendencies. That’s why he exhibits IFB tendencies in his writing, comments, and emails. No amount of arguing with Tee will change his mind. None. Until he dares to consider that he might be wrong, there’s no hope for him or anyone else who thinks like him, for that matter.

I need to frequently remind myself that most of the people who read this site never leave a comment or send me an email. I do know that my articles about the IFB church movement are frequently accessed, so I am confident that I am either irritating the hell out of a lot of IFB believers, or my words are quietly making a difference. I get enough email from people who left the IFB church movement to know that my writing is reaching people and helping them to see that there are better expressions of faith than IFB churches; that it is even okay to have no faith at all.

Fundamentally, I am a storyteller. The byline for this site says: One Man’s Journey from Eternity to Here. I tell people, I am just one man with a story to tell. Eric is a storyteller too. His videos and interviews have reached countless people, and, if nothing else, say to people who are struggling with their IFB pasts that they are not alone. It is by these testimonies we should justify and judge the success of our work, and not the angry, hateful attacks of self-righteous, arrogant IFB preachers. If these so-called men of God want to have honest, open discussions, I am more than willing to do so. I have nothing to hide. I should warn them, however: talking to me can be dangerous. Several IFB preachers ended up deconverting after lengthy discourse with me; finding that they were not as “right” as they thought they were; that their Fundamentalist Baptist beliefs could not be rationally sustained.

I don’t evangelize. All I know to do is tell my story and let the words fall where they may. Last year, I spoke via Zoom with an Amish-Mennonite group in Pennsylvania. I had a delightful time sharing my “testimony” and answering their honest, sincere questions. The pastor told me later that none of the men became atheists — no surprise, right? — but they were talking among themselves about what I shared with them. Who knows what may come of our interaction with each other? Isn’t that all any of us can do? (And if you would like me to come and speak at your church, I am more than happy to do so.) 🙂

Change comes when open ourselves up to the possibility of being wrong; that possibly, just maybe we might have wrong or distorted beliefs. Make no mistake about it, change is hard. I didn’t deconvert until the age of fifty, and neither did my wife. MY counselor told me years ago that it is rare for someone my age to walk away from their faith; that sunk costs, family, and social connections make it hard for someone like me to blow up their life and walk a different path (and that’s why I don’t criticize people who can’t do so. To quote the old gospel song, “I’ver come too far to turn back now.” But turn back I did, and I couldn’t be happier. I paid a heavy price for doing so — the loss of community still beats down on me — but if I had to do it all over again, I would. I am a better man, husband, father, and neighbor than I was before, and for that I am grateful. (I talk extensively about these things in the posts posted on the Why? page.) Will your life turn out as mine has if you deconvert? We can’t possibly know. I know people who have paid a heavy price for walking away from their tribe’s religion, often being cut off from their families and even their inheritances. Others have been kicked out of their homes or had their cars repossessed. That’s why I tell people to carefully consider the cost before saying out loud you are no longer a believer, that you are an atheist, or even that you are attending a nicer, gentler Christian church or another religion altogether. (Please see Count the Cost Before You Say “I am an Atheist.”)

Eric asked,

If you’ve left a toxic church environment you used to blindly submit to, what was the catalyst? What finally opened your eyes?

Please share your thoughtful answers in the comment section.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

One Fundamentalist Preacher’s Hilarious Response to a Sarcastic Post on This Site

Bruce Gerencser 10 Comments
sarcasm
Cartoon by Hilary Price

Several days ago, I published a post titled How to be an Online Evangelical Christian Apologist by Tim Sledge. Here’s what Tim, a Southern-Baptist-preacher-turned-unbeliever, had to say about online Evangelical apologists:

  1. Above all else, remember this: You are right. They are wrong. You are coming from a superior position. You have God on your side. They don’t.
  2. Never, never think about the possibility that you might sound arrogant and condescending when you keep asserting that God has led you to the real truth.
  3. Accept uncritically and parrot the answers well-known Christian apologists give about challenges to belief. Never check these things out for yourself.
  4. Do not listen to ex-Christians when they tell you why they left and how life feels after leaving faith. Turn off all curiosity about an ex-believer’s life experiences. Listen only to what the Bible tells you about why people leave and how it feels to them when they leave. This enables you to know more about how their lives feel than they do.
  5. Always assume that individuals who never believed will be immediately convinced when you quote Bible verses as proof of your beliefs.
  6. Ignore the feedback of ex-believers when you are quoting Bible verses to convince them, and they tell you you’re quoting verses they memorized or quoted when they were believers.
  7. When someone surprises you by responding with a Bible passage that disagrees with your position, tell them they are not interpreting the passage correctly.
  8. If you find out that an ex-believer has studied the Bible more than you, confidently assert they were never a true believer and consequently all their study was in vain.
  9. If all your arguments fail, attack the character of the person who disagrees with you! Tell this individual that there’s no way his/her life can have meaning, and there’s no way s/he can live any kind of moral life. Top it off with the warning: “You’ll be sorry when you burn in hell!” And be sure to convey that you see that destiny as a just reward.
  10. Remember that you’re not just an apologist for Christianity, you’re also an apologist for your brand of Christianity. Confront Christians whose theology is different from yours with the same intensity that characterizes your confrontations with atheists.

Funny stuff; sarcastic; not meant to be taken literally; a tongue-in-cheek jab at online Evangelical apologists. One online apologist, Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Theissen, thought these ten points were spot on. Why, he said AMEN, Brother Sledge, all the way from a basement somewhere in the Philippines.

Here’s what Thiessen had to say:

Thiessen: There is nothing wrong with using the internet to further the kingdom of God but be careful as the rules of God still apply when you are a keyboard warrior In the following article, we are going to address 10 steps another believer has compiled to help other Christians be online warriors [that was not the unbelieving Sledge’s intention.].

Sledge: #1. Above all else, remember this: You are right. They are wrong. You are coming from a superior position. You have God on your side. They don’t.

Thiessen: This is true but with some caveats. You are right if you make sure you have the truth and do not assume you have it. Also, God is with us as long as you do not sin in your online work. Plus, Christians do not come from a superior position. We come from a humble one grateful that God has saved us and set us free from sin.

Sledge: #2. Never, never think about the possibility that you might sound arrogant and condescending when you keep asserting that God has led you to the real truth.

Thiessen: Sounding arrogant is not the same as being arrogant. What unbelievers do not understand is that once Christians have found the truth, they do not have to struggle or search for it. We have the truth and need to speak it in Biblical love. If it sounds arrogant or condescending to the unbeliever, that is because they come from a different viewpoint and they are deceived into thinking they are correct. [In other words, if I sound like a Christian asshole, that’s because unbelievers such as Bruce Gerencser are deceived.] However, some Christians are arrogant and condescending but that can be fixed with God’s help. This accusation is one where the unbeliever ignores the fact that they are arrogant and condescending when they trash the beliefs of Christians. It is a hypocritical complaint.

Sledge: #3. Accept uncritically and parrot the answers well-known Christian apologists give about challenges to belief. Never check these things out for yourself.

Thiessen: There is nothing wrong with this IF the well-known Christian apologist speaks the truth. We do not have to search for new information because the truth is the truth. You cannot expand on the truth. The only issue here is for those parroting Christians to make sure they have heard the truth. Just like the Bereans did in Acts. Once you confirm it as the truth, speak it all the time when it is appropriate to mention it. Just do not go into falsehood because the unbeliever will get upset. We are to speak the truth at all times.

Sledge: #4. Do not listen to ex-Christians when they tell you why they left and how life feels after leaving the faith. Turn off all curiosity about an ex-believer’s life experiences. Listen only to what the Bible tells you about why people leave and how it feels to them when they leave. This enables you to know more about how their lives feel than they do.

Thiessen: Ex-Christians have left the truth and are very vulnerable to the work of evil.  As we have found over the years, the ex-Christians blame everyone else for their decisions except those most responsible for it– themselves and evil. While a few of them may have legitimate concerns, most are not. We have visited and read ex-pastor and ex-Christian websites and have seen them blame God and everyone else for their departure. Most of the time, they are at fault and not the church or Christians. The latter are just excuses for their decisions and the real problem is that the ex-Christian just does not want to follow God’s rules anymore.

….

Sledge: #5.  Always assume that individuals who never believed will be immediately convinced when you quote Bible verses as proof of your beliefs.

Thiessen: This is the first legitimate complaint on this list. Many Christians do have this attitude. They forget that you have to plant, then water, and then finally harvest. Evangelism is a process and it starts with the Christian being a Christian to all people.

….

Sledge: #6. Ignore the feedback of ex-believers when you are quoting Bible verses to convince them, and they tell you you’re quoting verses they memorized or quoted when they were believers.

Thiessen: Nothing wrong with doing that. The verses are still true and it doesn’t matter if the ex-believer memorized them before they left the faith or not. What is important is that the ex-believer did not listen to those verses or implemented them in their lives. Their feedback only tells you this and their feedback should be ignored. They do not have the truth of those scriptures anymore and they are using this knowledge as a defense against the truth. In reality, they are ignoring what you are saying by using this defensive tactic. But we need to be careful of quoting scripture to ex-believers as they will trod the truth and pearls under their feet. [And they will also scoop up our bullshit and feed it back to us, one spoon at a time.[

Sledge: #7. When someone surprises you by responding with a Bible passage that disagrees with your position, tell them they are not interpreting the passage correctly.

Thiessen: Many Christians are surprised but generally, the ex-believer or unbeliever does not understand the passage correctly. The Bible does not contradict itself and every verse works together. When the unbeliever or ex-believer makes these quotes, they do not understand the Bible or how it is applied. Usually, they are interpreting the bible according to their sinful and subjective viewpoint and not using God’s objective view to get the right message. The Spirit of Truth is not with those who do not believe even if they were once believers. They do not know the truth. You can by following the Spirit of Truth to the truth. Then do not depart from the truth because someone uses the Bible against you and your knowledge.

Sledge: #8. If you find out that an ex-believer has studied the Bible more than you, confidently assert they were never a true believer and consequently, all their study was in vain

Thiessen: Yes, if they are an ex-believer, all of their biblical studies were in vain. The reason for saying that is that with all the knowledge and experience with Jesus they had, they still quit on Jesus. There is no other way to put it. They will not get to heaven just because they studied and memorized the bible. They gave up their salvation when they left the faith and that action makes all their previous work in vain. Whether they were a true believer or not should be left up to God to decide. We have to deal with the issues that confront us and not make judgments on their spiritual lives prior to their leaving the faith. Also, just because they studied the Bible more than you did does not mean they know or understand the Bible better than you. They no longer have the truth even if they are quoting scriptures. They threw everything away when they left the faith. No unbeliever or ex-believer can tell you the truth of what God’s word says. Even if they have a doctorate in biblical studies. [He’s talking about Dr. Bart Ehrman. Thiessen thinks he knows more about the Bible than all the unsaved scholars in the world — past and present.]

Sledge: #9. If all your arguments fail, attack the character of the person who disagrees with you! Tell this individual that there’s no way his/her life can have meaning, and there’s no way s/he can live any kind of moral life. Top it off with the warning: “You’ll be sorry when you burn in hell!” And be sure to convey that you see that destiny as a just reward.

Thiessen: Never attack the other person. Address their arguments and show them the error in their thinking. BUT NEVER attack the other person. You will notice that the only people Jesus insulted or attacked were the religious leaders of his time. But those attacks were also meant to be a lesson and an example to us as to how NOT to be. It was never permission to attack anyone who disagrees with us. believe it or not, most unbelievers already know they are going to hell, you do not need to remind them of that fact. As for ‘meaning and morality’, the unbeliever thinks they can be moral or have meaning as their definition of those aspects of life is different from the Christian. Many unbelievers who became Christians have stated that they did not have meaning in their lives before becoming Christians. [You might want to practice what you preach, Derrick. Dare I republish the nasty, hateful emails you sent me?]

….

Sledge: #10 Remember that you’re not just an apologist for Christianity, you’re also an apologist for your brand of Christianity. Confront Christians whose theology is different from yours with the same intensity that characterizes your confrontations with atheists.

Thiessen: Always speak the truth. When you speak the truth it doesn’t matter if they are claiming ot be a Christian or an unbeliever, they cannot do anything against it. There is only one truth and only one true Christian faith [mine]. When you work for Christ on the internet or anywhere else, you are to bring the true Christian faith and the only truth. It does not matter if other denominations disagree with you, the truth [as interpreted by me] is the truth no matter what.

….

Thiessen: In conclusion, when you do your online Christian work, make sure to do it in a manner that is glorifying to God. Not just that you think it is glorifying to God but that it actually is accomplishing that objective.

Thiessen: All points quoted above came from the article How to be an Online Evangelical Christian Apologist by Tim Sledge on the website we no longer link to. [In other words, I steal content from Bruce Gerencser’s website without providing proper attribution.]

Thiessen: We saw that there was a response to our article yesterday and as usual our English nemesis fille dit with distortions, etc. it is not worth responding to as it seeks to deflect the truth.

I wonder who Thiessen was talking about in his post? That’s a rhetorical question, by the way. If he is not talking about the Evangelical-preacher-turned- atheist Bruce Gerencser, he is talking about his other nemesis, Ben Berwick, AKA the English Meerkat. 🙂

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Who is Bruce, Anyways? Asks Not-a-Real Doctor David Tee

Bruce Gerencser 11 Comments
bruce gerencser
This is Bruce 🙂

Not-a-Real-Doctor David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, has returned to his previous ways, writing posts about me and using my writing without proper attribution. His latest post titled, The Bible IS What it Claims to Be — 2 is his latest attempt to smear my character. Before I address what Thiessen wrote, I want to point out Thiessen’s post title; particularly his use of the word IS in ALL CAPS. Every time Thiessen does this, I think of this:

jumping man

YES, IT IS! YES, IT IS! YES, IT IS! All caps is how people shout digitally, hoping to make a point. Thiessen has spent his entire life in Christian Fundamentalism; a movement where shouting and pulpit pounding is used to say “BLESS GOD, I AM ABSOLUTELY, 100% RIGHT! CAN I GET AN A-M-E-N? So when Thiessen uses ALL CAPS, he’s just screaming, with index fingers in each ear, I’M RIGHT!

Now to Thiessen’s latest attempt to portray me in a bad light:

To be frank, who is Bruce anyways? What has he accomplished that anyone, including unbelievers, should listen to what he says? he quit on just about everything in his life except his marriage and what does a quitter have to offer anyone?

When Simone Biles quit on her Olympic team you should have read the comments under every article about her. They were not nice and most dismissed her and her opinion, etc. Quitters do not get the brass ring nor do they get any influence.

The moment former Christians quit the faith, they lose access to the truth and help from the only person who can get them to the truth and explain it correctly to them Also, when people quit the faith, they are not moving from an inferior god to a superior one.

Nor are they moving to a better religious faith that actually stops people from committing crimes or sinning, and they are not moving to a greater moral code. What they have done is moved from a faith that has all of those elements and moved to NOTHING.

….

We do not care what the owner of that website says nor do we care what any atheist or unbeliever says. They have nothing to offer anyone because they either reject something and stay in nothing or moved from something to nothing.

They are not correct and never will be. Plus, they have no hidden information that shows that God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Bible, the Christian faith, and so on is a hoax. They have nothing.

Thiessen “frankly” asks, “Who is Bruce, anyways?” Who I am can easily be ascertained by reading my autobiographical writing. Thiessen’s question is rhetorical. What he is really saying is that Bruce Gerencser is a nobody. Why would anyone listen to a “nobody”? I am sixty-six years old, yet he dismisses my entire life. Why? Well, in Thiessen’s mind, I am a “quitter.” I have “quit” everything in my life, except my marriage. This is rich coming from a man who is no longer a pastor; a man who divorced or left his wife; a man who abandoned his baby. Talk about a quitter. Of course, I would never disparagingly call him a quitter. Shit happens. Things change. Jobs, ministries, and marriages come and go.

Thiessen, of course, knows these things. Why he beats the “quitter” drum over and over and over again is beyond me. I have tried through this blog to give an honest account of my life. Thiessen has made no attempt to do the same. He hides in a foreign country, using several aliases over the years. His readers, all ten of them, know little to nothing about him. He parades around proud as a peacock as a “Dr.” yet refuses to say where he earned his degree or make his doctoral thesis available to the public. He is free, of course, to do these things, but personal attacks on me and my honest telling of my life carry no weight. I really wish he would stop with the quitter” schtick. He won’t because he knows it bothers me. Color me human, but I don’t like it when people lie about me.

Thiessen uses the horrible abuse Simon Biles received after dropping out of the Olympics as justification for attacking my character. As a quitter, I shouldn’t expect to be treated nicely by others. According to Thiessen, quitters such as Simon Biles and I shouldn’t have any influence over others, nor should we get the brass ring — whatever the Hell that means. In other words, leaving Christianity undoes everything I have done in my life. Nothing I do going forward will have meaning and value. Since Thiessen delusionally thinks his words = God’s words, all I can say is this: Derrick Thiessen worships a horrible God.

According to Thiessen, on the last Sunday of November in 2008 — almost fifteen years ago — every bit of knowledge and truth in my brain disappeared. From that day forward, I could no longer know and understand “truth.” Why? Because all “truth” comes from Jesus, an uneducated traveling preacher who died 2,000 years ago. It is Jesus alone who can explain truth to us.

Thiessen says he doesn’t care what I say, yet he has written almost one hundred posts about me or in response to something I have written. I’d say based on this fact that Thiessen has an unhealthy obsession with me. I’ve repeatedly offered to send him my Stripper Santa Pole Dancing® photo, but so far he refuses to provide me with his mailing address. His loss. 🙂

Thiessen ends his harangue about me with a number of personal attacks, all meant to belittle and demean me.

Perhaps Thiessen has forgotten that Jesus told him how to treat the atheist Bruce Gerencser and others like him:

But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also. Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again. And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same. And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. (Luke 6:27-38)

Jesus said it, Derrick, I didn’t.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

I Don’t Care What You Say, Bruce, The Bible IS One Hundred Percent TRUE

Bruce Gerencser 12 Comments
bible literalism

Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Not-a-Doctor Derrick Thomas Theissen, hadn’t written about me in several weeks, so I thought, Has Thiessen seen the light? Has he moved on to other blogs besides this one and Meerkat Musings? Has he figured out how to write his own content instead of dishonestly ripping off mine? Sadly, my thoughts were too good to be true. On Saturday, Thiessen wrote a missive titled The Bible IS What It Claims to Be; a response to my post, Dear Evangelical, Just Because You Quote the Bible Doesn’t Make Your Comment True. Of course, Thiessen does not mention who wrote the post he is responding to or where it is located.

Here’s an excerpt from Thiessen’s post:

The Bible is what it claims to be. If it wasn’t, the world would be lost and no one would have any hope. Anarchy would be the rule of law and the survival of the fittest would influence just about every action possible. There would be no morals, no laws and everyone would do what is right in their own eyes.

When people dismiss the Bible, they do this even though the Bible is what it claims to be, They consider themselves greater than God and think they can do things better than him. So far, they have all failed.

The crime rate is a prime example of their failure. Their best solution, so far, has been to take action that lets a few liberals, progressives, and democrats gain control over everyone else. They dictate to the people what words can be said, what actions can be done, and they need to be stopped before it is too late.

Unbelievers have nothing to offer anyone, yet they feel superior to everyone through their condemnation of the Bible and their claims that it is not what it claims to be.

Thiessen quotes what I said about what Evangelicals generally believe about the Bible:

  • The Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God
  • The Bible is THE book above all other books
  • Every word in the Bible is true
  • The Bible is NEVER wrong
  • Doubting the Bible’s truthfulness is sin
  • The words attributed to Jesus in the gospels were actually spoken by him
  • The Bible presents a blueprint, manual, guideline for living

Thiessen replied:

Some atheists call these characteristics presuppositions but that is an erroneous labeling. Christians believe these things about the Bible because they are true. The Bible is never wrong and it is the only blueprint, manual etc., for living and so on.

Later in his post, Thiessen quotes me again: Most Evangelicals fail to question or challenge the presuppositions their proof-texts are based upon. To this, he replied:

This is a common complaint made by unbelievers. They think that Christians only do proof-texting when quoting the Bible. They do not understand that some verses are stand-alone passages that deal with a given situation perfectly.

Then they will call the Christian’s beliefs pre-suppositions ignoring the fact that the Christian has already questioned and studied the different passages of the Bible and know that they are true. Just because the unbeliever does not accept the truthfulness of the Bible does NOT make it untrue.

Evidently, Thiessen doesn’t know the definition of the word “presupposition.” Dictionary.com defines the word this way: “something that is assumed in advance or taken for granted.”

All of us have presuppositions. We couldn’t function in life without them, However, when Evangelicals want to challenge my atheism or convince me of the truthfulness of Christianity, then I am going to demand they, at the very least, acknowledge the presuppositions in their worldview.

For the sake of this discussion, presuppositions are things that are believed by default; without evidence (or sufficient evidence). The goal for all of us should be to believe as many true things as possible. We should strive to have as few presuppositions as possible.

Most Evangelicals have a borrowed faith; one given to them by their parents, family, and tribe. As they get older, Evangelicals will learn more and more about their “chosen” system of belief, but rarely will they challenge the presuppositions that are essential to their faith. And when they do? Typically, they stop being Evangelicals or they find ways to suppress the cognitive dissonance that comes when their core beliefs are challenged. In other words, they faith-it, facts be damned.

Thiessen attacks Dr. Bart Ehrman in his post, suggesting that Ehrman is a liar and fraud. Of course, Thiessen makes no attempt to actually respond to Ehrman. No need, right? In Thiessen’s mind, he only needs to regurgitate his presuppositions. End of discussion.

What are those presuppositions?

  • The Evangelical God exists, and he is as the Protestant Christian Bible describes him
  • The Evangelical God is a triune being who created the universe in six twenty-four-hour days, 6,025 years ago
  • The Protestant Christian Bible was written by God and every word is inerrant and infallible
  • When the Bible speaks to matters of history and science it is absolutely true

Presuppositions, by default, are claims without evidence. Either you believe them or you don’t. Thiessen believes these presuppositions, I don’t. All I see are unsupported claims. The only evidence Thiessen can provide for his presuppositions is the only evidence any Evangelical can give: the Bible says. What Thiessen and his fellow Evangelicals refuse to understand is that quoting a proof text is a claim, not evidence. If you want me to believe in the existence of the Evangelical God, you are going to have to provide actual evidence for your claim. Ditto for God creating everything and the Bible being some sort of inerrant, infallible book written by him.

If Thiessen wants me to accept his claims, I expect him to do more than quote the Not-So-Good book. The Bible is a fallible, errant collection of ancient religious books written mainly by unknown authors. While there are certainly truth claims in the Bible, the bulk of its words requires faith to believe. Faith is what people turn to when they lack facts and evidence. There was a time when faith was enough for me, but no longer. If Thiessen wants me to believe his claims, he is going to have to come up with more than Bible verses.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.