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Dr. David Tee Blows a Gasket Over My Latest Post

Bruce Gerencser 13 Comments
dr david tee's library
Dr. David Tee’s Massive Library

Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, recently blew a gasket over my post Never Underestimate the Power of Jesus. Evidently, this post irritated the Hey-Zeus right out of him; so much so that he wanted to swear at me. Instead, he told me to “shut my hole.” Which hole, Derrick, which hole? 🤣

Here’s what Thiessen had to say. All spelling, grammar, punctuation, and irrationality in the original. Comments in brackets are mine:

We [I] get tired of those people who choose not to believe, refuse to believe,, or have walked away from the Christian faith asserting that Jesus is not real. [I’ve never said that Jesus wasn’t a real person. Thiessen knows this, yet he continues to say otherwise.] If you do not want to believe, then shut your holes. [Which hole, Derrick?] It is not your faith and you have no business sticking your nose into the beliefs and reality of Christianity. [Sure, I do. It’s called public discourse. If it’s wrong for me to write about Christianity, it’s wrong for fake Dr. Tee to write about atheism.]

You have no mandate to ‘expose Christianity’ because everything about the Christian faith and God is already exposed and has been known for 2000 years. [The Canon wasn’t even settled for three centuries. Christianity has always been an evolving religion. Thiessen’s rigid Fundamentalism drives him to irrationally think he believes the exact same things the Apostle Paul did.] You have the freedom to choose, now let those that have chosen to believe the Bible an din Christ enjoy their faith without your unverifiable, unprovable, and unsubstantiated subjective claims. [Who’s keeping anyone from believing anything? No, what Thiessen is afraid of is people learning that he is peddling a lie.]

What put us in this less than tactful mood [or this is why I’m being an asshole] is a post by BG [Bruce Gerencser] who makes those same claims yet refuses to produce one shred of credible, verifiable, provable physical evidence.

….

Prove that Jesus did not rise from the dead. Just saying that people die and stay dead is not proof or evidence. [Sure, it is. Everyone dies, Jesus included.] It is an assertion that has no basis in reality. [Reality shows everyone dies. No need to make an assertion.] Prove the resurrection is false using science on Jesus’s body, grave, and grave clothes, and not on anyone else. [Please provide the body of Jesus, along with his grave clothes and the location of his grave, and we will do so. Of course, Thiessen can provide none of these things. His evidence for the resurrection of Jesus from the dead? The Bible says so. Color me unimpressed.]

However, we know that Jesus rose from the dead because of the millions of changed lives that have taken place since his resurrection. You do not get those change dives from believing in a dead person who did not rise. [The size of a religion proves nothing. Catholicism, Islam, and Buddhism have numbers much larger than Thiessen’s peculiar brand of Christianity. Using Thiessen’s logic, this means these religions are true.]

We have the evidence for his resurrection in those millions of lives, what does BG [Bruce Gerencser] or other atheists have? They need to present their own evidence that Jesus did not change those lives and not simply create some fanciful explanation not supported by real physical evidence. [Thiessen is living proof that Christ does not change lives. So are others just like him who despise and demean anyone who believes differently from them.]

….

We [I] call BG [Bruce Gerencser] to provide credible, verifiable, and real physical evidence that the accounts talking about Jesus are myths. Just because myths and legends exist, does it mean that those biblical accounts are myths. [The Bible is a book of claims. Until the Thiessens of the world provide empirical evidence for these claims, that all they are — claims.]

BG [Bruce Gerencser] and other atheists cannot just point to secular myths and claim that because these myths exist, the biblical accounts are myths. [I have never done this.] 3Nor can they simply point to the fact science cannot prove those accounts.

Science is not designed to study the supernatural and is disqualified from use. [No one suggested otherwise.] Plus, science cannot determine what really took place in the past because it cannot see into the past to see what did take place. [Thiessen can’t see back to the beginning of time, yet he feels qualified to do so anyway. He wants one set of rules for atheists, and another for himself.]

Come up with something else. [Okay, I think the designated hitter rule should be banned.] The fact that millions of people are believing the same accounts without alterations is proof that the biblical accounts are not myths. Do millions and millions of people believe that Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and other superheroes exist? 

They follow the comics but does their belief bring those imaginary characters to life? Do those imaginary characters get involved with real human lives and change them forever while granting them special gifts and paradise to live in when they die? [Again, these are claims for which Thiessen provides no evidence other than “The Bible says so.”

Not one superhero has offered eternal life to anyone who believes they exist.[Fine, I Bruce Almighty offer eternal life to everyone who sends me $1.] Plus, not one superhero has changed one life and rescued humans from sin. However, Jesus has which is why millions of people believe in him. [Why didn’t he change your life, Derrick? Your tree is barren.]

Plus, Jesus does not need anyone to believe in him to exist. He exists even if no one wrote about him. But BG [Bruce Gerencser] and other atheists need to provide the proof that the biblical accounts are myths first. [This is presuppositionalism at its worst. No argument can pierce the ignorance.]

….

This is head-in-the-sand thinking which does not provide any evidence to their validity. All it does is show the lack of rational and logical thought on the part of BG [Bruce Gerencser] and other atheists. Bring [where should I deliver it?] verifiable and credible physical evidence that there is no evidence supporting the Bible, its instruction, and its historical foundation.

….

BG [Bruce Gerencser] needs to prove that Jesus was not there during those times [when my in-laws suffered tragedy.]. just because the results were not what BG [Bruce Gerencser] wanted to see does not mean Jesus was not there. [Ah yes, a Jesus who is “there” yet is invisible.] He needs to bring credible, verifiable, and real physical evidence proving Jesus abandoned them and other Christians.

….

BG [Big Gonads] needs to prove that Jesus is fraudulent. Appealing to other unbelievers is not evidence nor is it proof. Ehrman does not have the truth nor does any unbeliever so what good would reading their books do? Nothing.

BG [Ball Grabber] needs to prove with credible, verifiable physical evidence that Erhman has the truth and Jesus is a fraud. Too many people who have experienced Jesus know better. If he does not have the proof, then his claims are false.

The atheist and other unbelievers have made extraordinary claims about Jesus, God, the Bible, and Christianity thus the onus is on them to provide credible, verifiable, and real physical evidence to show they are correct.

if they do not, then they need to shut up and mind their own business.

….

BG [Bruce Gerencser] and MM [Ben Berwick] whine and complain about our using those initials and not ‘referencing’ their websites. [Yes, we ask you to follow Internet guidelines for using the material of others. Instead, you steal our content and refuse to properly link to our sites. Seventeen years, Derrick, and you are the only blogger who behaves this way towards me.] But both people have acted in a horrendous manner towards us[me] that they [I] lost our [my] respect for them and their decisions. [And I don’t care. What I wish you would do is move on to someone else to harass and molest. Three years, Derrick, and you are still blogging about me several times a week. I offered to send you a nude picture of me if that would put an end to your unhealthy obsession with me. It’s icky, Dude. I’m not gay. Please stop.]

The above-quoted beliefs of one atheist [Bruce Gerencser[ just make it harder to respect them and their wishes. If they do not like how we [I] do things on OUR [MY] website, they can shut up. [The post Thiessen is upset about has nothing to do with him.] Just like they need to shut up about how bad Christianity and Christians are. [If Thiessen wants atheists to stop pointing out bad Christian behavior, I suggest believers try harder. You know, stop being Assholes for Jesus. I predict Thiessen will write a post defending child molester Robert Morris. Thiessen has yet to meet a child molester he couldn’t defend.]

They have no proof to support their denials and positions so they need to talk about other things, not Christianity. [Okay, let’s talk about penis size.] The last words [You will never say another word?] are to them BRING your verifiable, credible, and real physical evidence, or never say another word about Christianity again. [Sure Derrick, sure.🤣]

Faith and the Chair

Bruce Gerencser 7 Comments
dog in a chair

I suspect that most of us who were raised in Evangelical Christianity have heard the faith/chair analogy. If you have not heard it before:

Faith is like deciding to sit in a chair. You don’t know that the chair will hold you, yet by faith you believe it will, so you sit down in the chair.

Quite deep theology there, brethren.

Here’s the problem with this analogy: sitting in a chair does not require faith. Let me explain it this way. I am a big man, so making sure a chair will withstand my considerable ass sitting in it requires me to use the scientific method of inquiry.

Before I ever sit in a chair, I ask myself, does this chair LOOK like it will hold me? Now looks aren’t enough, as I learned several years ago at a Toledo Olive Garden. After the hostess brought us to our table, I glanced at the chair and quickly sat down. Except I didn’t make it all the way down. As I started to put my weight on the chair, it kicked out from me and I landed flat on my back in the middle of Olive Garden. I hit my head on the cement floor and could not get up. The manager came running in to make sure I was all right. The only injury was to my pride. So, was the chair defective? Not at all. The chair had casters and I didn’t see them. As I started to sit down, the chair rolled out from underneath me and I fell. Because I didn’t pay attention to the construction of the chair, I ended up on the cement floor. This is what having faith in the chair got me.

Most of the time, when we go out to eat, I carefully check not only the construction of the chair, but the ingress and egress. As a disabled man, I want to know the lay of the land. Where’s the bathroom, can I easily walk to it? As far as the chair is concerned, I rock the chair back and forth and side to side, making sure it is solid, and I press on the seat, making sure it will hold me. I have been to more than one restaurant where I’ve had to ask for a different chair lest the one they wanted me to use leaves me on the floor. The only thing worse than a chair breaking is the embarrassment that comes from it (though my editor suggests that getting injured would be worse).

Using the scientific method, I test a chair to make sure it will hold me. After I have done so, and it passes the tests, I feel confident that the chair will support my 6-foot, 310-pound body. I have been a big man most of my adult life, and this method of determining chairworthiness has never failed me. The only time I have ever had a chair break is when I “faithed” it.

The faith/chair analogy breaks down in another way, because the chair is an inanimate object that I can see and touch. God can not be seen or touched, and believing in God requires blind faith.

This is one of the reasons I am an atheist. I see no evidence for the Christian God. Believing in such a deity requires faith, a faith I do not have. For me, seeing is believing, and I do not “see” the Christian God.

Hebrews 11:1,3 states:

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

What is Christian faith?

  • The substance of things hoped for
  • The evidence of things not seen

Perhaps the wording of the NIV will make it clearer:

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Many Evangelicals get upset when someone suggests that their faith is a blind faith. But isn’t that exactly how Hebrews defines faith: believing without seeing; that faith is the proof of belief in that which can not be seen?

Creationists would do well to read Hebrews 11 the next time they try to scientifically “prove” creationism. Hebrews 11 makes it clear that believing God created the universe requires faith. It requires faith to ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence for the formation of the universe, earth, and life. Creationists embarrass themselves and besmirch their religion when they try to make creationism fit into a scientific box. And when their efforts fail, what do they do? They retreat to the safety of faith, a place they should have stayed to start with.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

How My IFB Upbringing Kept Me From Having Fun

Bruce Gerencser 9 Comments
its fun being saved bob harrington

My religious lineage goes something like this: Christian, Protestant, Evangelical, and Baptist. Depending on your point in my story, my lineage also includes self-identifiers such as Calvinist, Reformed/Sovereign Grace Baptist, non-cessationist, Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB), Southern Baptist, and non-denominational. The first thirty years of my life were spent in the IFB church movement.

IFB believers are known for Bible literalism, inerrancy, and infallibility. IFB pastors and congregations are particularly known for their “Biblical” rules, regulations, and church standards. These standards govern virtually every aspect of life. Believers are taught to not fellowship with unbelievers and to abstain from the very appearance of evil. The “world” — everyone except IFB Christians — is the enemy, one that must be fought and vanquished every moment of every day — month in, month out, year in, and year out. Life is preparation for the world to come (Amos 3:3). IFB adherents are reminded weekly by their pastors of the sins of the flesh and how dangerous the unregenerate world really is. Self-esteem is deemed a sin, and giving in to carnal lusts and desires brings the chastisement of God.

Ask an IFB Christian what he does for fun, and he will likely list church-related, Jesus-focused, Bible-approved practices and experiences. As an IFB pastor, I planned all sorts of fun church activities: bowling, canoeing, roller skating, lock-ins, camping trips, hiking, and dinners, along with numerous promotional events used to draw large crowds to church. We had “fun,” but never apart from the centrality of the gospel and preaching. We NEVER had fun for fun’s sake. Jesus was at the center of, or lurking nearby, everything we did as a church.

Spending three decades in this sort of religious environment caused all sorts of psychological harm. Outside of our family attending dirt track races in the 1980s and 1990s, we rarely did anything “fun” that didn’t include Jesus and/or church. My partner, Polly, and I have six adult children. We took lots of road trips with our children loaded up in the back of a beat-up station wagon. While we saw all sorts of new things and had lots of fun, there was always a religious component. I would look for a church for us to visit while we were traveling, or better yet where I could do the preaching. There were eight people in our family, but Jesus always traveled with us, making sure we stayed on the straight and narrow while away from the prying eyes of other Christians.

Last Saturday, Polly and I attended a dance recital for two of our granddaughters. We had a delightful time. As I sat there watching my granddaughters do tap and ballet, I pondered how I would have viewed their performances if I were still an IFB pastor. I likely wouldn’t have even attended the recital. Why? I considered ALL dancing a sin. Worse, the dancers wore skimpy, sexually suggestive clothing — even the preschoolers. The dance routines were all performed to “worldly” music — even wicked, evil, vile rock-and-roll songs. ABSTAIN, BRUCE, ABSTAIN!

Several weekends ago, Polly and I discussed how different life would have been for us and our family had we remained Evangelicals; had I remained a pastor. I suspect we would have fractured, strained relationships with our children and grandchildren — especially if they weren’t Christians. Fundamentalism demands your all . . . all to Jesus I surrender, all to him I freely give, the hymn goes. Duty and obedience demanded surrendering “fun for fun’s sake” for the sake of the gospel. For IFB Christians, fun will wait till they reach Heaven. Until then, “fun” is what wicked, sinful worldlings do instead of going to church three or more times a week.

These days, Polly and I have fun because we can — no strings attached. Some of our fun is sinful, or runs contrary to our IFB upbringing. Southern Baptist evangelist, the late Bob Harrington, the Chaplain of Bourbon Street, preached a famous sermon titled “It’s Fun Being Saved.” (Please see Evangelist Bob Harrington: It’s Fun Being Saved.) Maybe I need to preach a sermon “It’s Fun Being a Godless Heathen.” When I compare my former IFB life to that of my present life as an atheist and a humanist, the here-and-now wins hands down. We no longer have to measure our behavior by the Bible or the teachings of our peculiar sect or the personal proclivities of our pastor (me). We are free to do what we want.

Ask former Evangelicals what they gained by deconverting, and they will say: FREEDOM. Freedom to live life on their own terms. Freedom to have fun and enjoy life without fear of offending God, the pastor, or the church.

How has your view of “fun” changed since you deconverted or left the IFB church movement? Please leave your thoughts in the comment section.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Dr. David Tee Pontificates on the 2024 Presidential Election

Bruce Gerencser 5 Comments
dr david tee's library
Dr. David Tee’s Massive Library

By Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, Who Are They Going to Vote For, Then?

Everyone and his dog knows that Mr. Trump faced nothing but kangaroo courts and those verdicts are ludicrous. There was no justice in those trials and it was widely advertised that they would get Mr. Trump. That is not how the law is supposed to work yet in his case, that is how it went.

If there is anyone Christians should not be voting for it is Mr. Biden and the rest of the democrats. They are the party that supports sin and evil, calling them good and right, as well as normal and no Christian in their right mind can vote for such policies or people.

We have also seen the Democrats abuse and ignore the nation’s laws to fulfill their agendas. This is the point of why shaming Christians for removing their support from Mr. Trump. The opposition knows that it is the Christian block that can make or break an election and the democrats are doing everything in their power to ensure they win the election.

If they do win the election, say good-bye to America as that country needs to be destroyed for the one-world government to take over. Plus, with America out of the way, other nations will destroy their neighbors and too many innocent people will die for no reason other than the democrats want power and control over everything.

Don’t be fooled by the news pundits, the leftist politicians, and others who try to get Christians’ support away from Mr. Trump. It is not wrong for Christians to vote for Mr. Trump nor is it wrong to support his candidacy.

There is no perfect candidate in this race and there are no better ones to vote for. Mr. Trump has already proven how good he would be as president as we have his first 4 years providing us the evidence we need to see that he will do a good job.

Biden has failed in his four years and he is senile now. No one can vote for him as he is not qualified to be president. It is an embarrassment to see him led around by his wife. He is the leader of the strongest nation in the world yet he is not capable of walking under his own direction.

That is embarrassing and pitiful. Make your own choices for whom to vote and make sure you select wisely as your security and safety are at stake.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Challenging Christian Bloggers On Their Own Turf by Neil Robinson

Bruce Gerencser 10 Comments
i am right

Guest post by Neil Robinson. Neil blogs at Rejecting Jesus.

Is it ever reasonable for non-believers to comment on Christian blog sites? I know Bruce compares it with turning up at a church service and arguing with the preacher, and a recent comment on Debunking Christianity described it as ‘bad manners’. But are there circumstances where it’s reasonable to do it?

Can I suggest a couple of scenarios where it might be? I should declare first that I rarely comment on Christian sites – I have a life to live, after all – and have, I’d guess, done so no more than a dozen times in the past three or four years. This hasn’t been to promote atheism, but to counter the ignorance and intolerance of some Evangelical sites.

So here are my thoughts on when it’s okay to stray over to the dark side and engage with its denizens. First, is when True Believers arrive on my site and tell me, usually in no uncertain terms,  where I’m wrong. This is often for the same few reasons that are directed at Bruce: I don’t know the Bible well enough; I misinterpret it; I don’t know Jesus the way they do; I was never really a Christian. Having batted these ad hominems around for a while, some commenters decide there’s nothing for it but to recommend posts of their own. They provide links to their blogs that will set me and my reader straight. Now and then (but not always) I’ll take a look at and, if appropriate, comment on what they’ve written. After all, they have specifically invited me round to their place; I haven’t gate-crashed, they wanted me to visit so they could enlighten me. I have, as a result, the right to reply, to let them know they haven’t. I don’t, as a rule, argue theology or push any particular ideology, but I have been moved to point out that the Bible is open to multiple interpretations and theirs (or, I suspect, their minister’s) involves a considerable degree of cherry-picking to make it compatible with their orthodoxy. Of course, they have the right, and the means, not to publish my comment if it upsets them too much.

Second, Facebook’s algorithm – and that of other social media sites presumably — is fond of finding extreme Christian sites to add my much-neglected page. Invariably I delete these and tell the algorithm I want to see fewer posts of this sort. It complies for a short while before it decides I really do need to know that Jesus is my friend or that I’m headed straight to hell. (Honestly, you write a few articles that mention Jesus and God and the entire Internet thinks you want to become an Evangelical.) Now and then, and rather more frequently than I’d prefer, the nuttier sites that pop up announce that atheists have no basis for morality and are shaking their collective fist at God who’s feeling mighty wrathful about it. Alternatively, these sites find the need to headline the scourge of homosexuality, which likewise is bringing the Western world, and more specifically America, to the verge of destruction. Now I happen to be both an atheist and a homosexual (I don’t have any trouble with this word despite its use by some as a slur). I feel that, as sites disparaging either atheists, gays, or both have intruded on my FB page, it is again perfectly appropriate for me to respond, which, every few years, I do. Prejudiced, ill-informed, hateful opinions about me and my kind, be they atheist or gay, need to be challenged. These bloggers’ claims that their anti-atheist, anti-LGBT rhetoric is a ‘ministry’ or a demonstration of love are disingenuous. They are nothing of the sort.

So I suggest to these bloggers that they are wrong. I like, also, to remind them that their Saviour commands them to love their neighbours as themselves and to love and pray for their enemies, to which they invariably reply, ‘even the devil can quote scripture’. I have been known to point out too that Jesus expects them to feed the hungry, help the needy, and care for those less fortunate and that sitting at a computer for hours at a time, trashing non-believers and ‘sodomites’ (I do object to that one) isn’t what he had in mind.

Am I wasting my time? Almost certainly, but I can’t stand by as ‘loving’ Christians judge me, and others like me, as fit only for hell – and sometimes for more worrying, tangible fates in the real world.

Commenting on Christian blogs is not always for the faint-hearted, nor is it something I’d advocate. Many don’t even allow comments, so certain are they that they’re right. Occasionally, however – a couple of times a year – I feel compelled to counter the attacks on others.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Bruce, You Are Wrong!!

Bruce Gerencser 9 Comments
garfield never wrong

Over the past seventeen years, various people have taken it upon themselves in emails, blog comments, Facebook comments, tweets, letters to the editor, sermons, and blog posts to emphatically tell me “Bruce, You Are Wrong!!” Be it my liberal politics, the teams I root for, or my humanistic, atheistic beliefs, these beacons of absolute truth are infallibly certain that I am wrong.

Let me confess right away that I have been wrong many, many, many times. I bet you didn’t know that, right? In fact, there’s not a day that goes by that I am not wrong in some moment, circumstance, or detail.

Usually, when someone writes to me to tell me I am wrong, they have a deeper, more sinister meaning for the word “wrong.” For the most part, I write about Christianity — particularly Evangelical Christianity and the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement. Occasionally, I write about politics, education, sports, and other sundry subjects, but my main focus is Christianity and its trappings. I spend a great deal of time telling my story, detailing my journey, as only a good, humble, narcissistic ex-pastor can. This blog, whatever else it may or may not be, is this: “Bruce’s Story, Told by Bruce, According to Bruce, the Best He Can Remember It.”

When I am telling my story and my understanding of the journey I am on, I have little patience with those who tell me I am “wrong.” They dissect my life with the razor knife of their own experiences and beliefs, and determine that I am/was not what I say I am/was. They tell me I was never saved, never a Christian, never a real pastor, and I suspect someday someone will even challenge my circumcision.

These kinds of people want to control my storyline. My Evangelical critics want to set the standard by which my life — the one I lived, the one I am presently living — is judged, and it infuriates them when I won’t let them do so. I refuse to allow my story to be co-opted, controlled, or judged by any other standard than my own experiences. It is my life, and I know what I believed, how I lived, and I am certain I know my life better than anyone who only has this blog to judge me by. My dear wife of forty-six years is my best friend and she knows me pretty well, but she doesn’t know everything about me. Almost everything, but not quite. (Polly is wondering, “What the hell is Bruce keeping from me?)

Foolish is a person, armed with only printed words on a computer screen, who would judge a person’s life without further evidence or knowledge. I certainly want people to enter into my story — in fact, I invite them in. But my readers are just visitors. They only know what I am willing to tell them. If my lover and best friend or my counselor can’t pierce Bruce Almighty’s inner sanctum, don’t think for a moment any outsider can. I’ve been reading the blogs of certain people who have frequented this site for years. I am friends with them on Facebook. I know lots of things about them, but I would never arrogantly say I intimately “know” them. The same can be said for my editor. She’s been editing my writing for almost nine years. We have never met in person, and, likely, we never will. I consider her a dear friend. We text each other almost daily. I know a lot about her past and present life, and her spouse, children, grandchildren, etc. However, I would never presume on our relationship by saying I “know” everything there is to know about her. Yet, countless Evangelical critics think that by reading a few posts on this site they “know” me, and are in a position to render infallible judgment. 

Sometimes, charges of being wrong are hurled my way because of something I have written about Christianity, the ministry, the Bible, or some other facet of Western Christianity. They vehemently disagree with my interpretation of a particular Bible verse, or they object to particular word usages, words such as Christian, Evangelical, or Fundamentalist.

What is the foundation of their charges against me? Why, their own beliefs and interpretations, or the beliefs and interpretations of their particular sect. Ultimately, the Bible becomes the focus of these kinds of accusations.

According to my eristical interlocutors, I am wrong because I have misread, misunderstood, misapplied, or distorted what the Bible teaches. How do my critics know this? Because they read, understand, and apply the Bible differently from me. And we all know that every Evangelical is infallible in his or her understanding of an allegedly divine religious text, written by mostly unknown authors thousands of years ago. (That’s sarcasm, by the way.)

I could be wrong. In fact, I am quite certain that some of my interpretations of the Bible are wrong or could be better stated. I have no way of proving whether they are. All I have is my mind and my ability to read and study, and using these skills, I try, to the best of my ability, to discern and understand what a particular text in the Bible says. People are free to differ with me, but why should it be assumed that I am wrong and my critics are right? How do we make such a determination? Dr. Dan McClellan is fond of saying that the Bible has no inherent meaning. And he is right. We give the text meaning, not the other way around.

The Bible has the unique ability to be whatever a person wants it to be. Most people have a bit of Thomas Jefferson in them, scissors in hand, cutting out the things they disagree with or the things that weaken their theological, political, and social beliefs. The short of it is this: if you need to prove something, go to the Bible. You will likely find the answer you are looking for.

I am quite aware of the fact that I read the Bible differently from the Evangelical Christians who think I am wrong. The one-up I have on them is that I used to read the Bible as they do. I understand their hermeneutics and theology, and I am well aware of their interpretations. That said, I have no compulsion or need to read the Bible as Evangelicals or progressive/liberal Christians would read the Good Book. I do not need to make the Bible fit a peculiar systematic theology grid, as Evangelical Christians do. Instead, I try to read the Bible like the average, unenlightened Bruce would read the Bible. I try to transport myself back in time in hopes of getting a historical and cultural perspective on the passage I am reading.

In Genesis 1:26, God says “let us make man in our image.”  When I read this passage, I say to myself: this says there is a plurality of Gods. Let US. As I read the Old Testament, it is clear to me that the Israelites were polytheistic and over time became monotheistic (or as oneness-Pentecostals would assert about Trinitarian Christians, they still ARE polytheistic).

Of course, those who think I am wrong say: but the New Testament says______ and they import their Trinitarian theology into the Genesis text. That’s all well and good if you are an Evangelical Christian, but I am not. I am quite free to read the Bible as it is written without forcing myself to put all the pegs in the right holes. The Christian has the burden to make it all fit, not I.

I may be wrong, but it is a leap of faith to assume that because I am wrong, you are right. There is no way to “prove” who is right or who is wrong when it comes to the Bible. Baptists and Campbellites (Church of Christ) often spar over one Greek word, eis, in Acts 2:38. Who is right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know all the arguments from both sides of the fence. Who is right? All of us have to determine for ourselves what we believe about God, Jesus, the Bible, and Christianity. This blog is simply my take on these things.

Seriously, the amount of skin I have in this game gets less and less every day. Talking about the Bible and what it purportedly teaches is all fun and games. Since the Bible no longer has a mystical, supernatural hold on me, I am quite free to ignore it at will. I am free to be wrong because being wrong about the Bible is like being wrong about picking the players for a fantasy football league — not the end of the world.

My bigger focus is on those who are considering leaving Christianity or who have already left Christianity. I try to be a good example of a person who successfully broke the chains of bondage and left Christianity. I do not call on people to follow me or to do what I did. All I am is one guy with a story to tell. If my story helps someone; if it gives them the strength to take the big step they need to take, then I am grateful and humbled by being a small measure of help to them. However, if all I do is piss you off and make you think you have scabies, perhaps your short life would be better served reading other things than this blog. Telling me I am wrong will not bring the effect you desire. I will gladly admit to being wrong. Next?

Perhaps you are really hanging out here because, deep down, uncertainty is pulling at you, and you are trying to suppress it by lashing out at the poor, deluded, deceived, ignorant Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist named Bruce. If me being your whipping boy leads to your deconversion, whip away, my friend, whip away.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Smile God Loves You — Just Kidding!

Bruce Gerencser 10 Comments
smile god loves you

Imagine a story that goes like this . . .

One day, a young man walks up to a young woman and says:

I love you and I want to marry you. I know we have never met before, but I really, really, really love you, and if you will love me back, I have a wonderful plan for your life. I will be right by your side twenty-four hours a day. In fact, you will never be free of me because I promise to never leave or forsake you. I know you don’t know me from Adam, but if you will love me and never forsake me, I will be your BFF.

Suddenly, the young man’s face turns dark, and with a stern, threatening voice he says to the woman:

And if you don’t accept my proposal of love and lifelong commitment, I promise to make your life miserable. I will afflict you, burn your house down, and reduce your life to Job’s ash heap. I will make your life so miserable that you will wish you never had been born.

Any normal woman would recoil and run from such a man. Who would ever want to love such a person, one who offers conditional love, a love that promises violence and death if not requited? Yet, this is exactly the love that many Evangelicals try to sell to non-Christians.

Let me illustrate this fact with a tract from Osterhus Publishing House in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I picked this tract up at Dietsch Brothers Fine Chocolates and Ice Cream in Findlay, Ohio.

osterhus publishing tract 2
Osterhus Publishing Tract, Front
osterhus publishing tract
Osterhus Publishing Tract, Back

Is this not the essence of the gospel many Evangelicals preach?  God says, “Love me or you’ll wish you had.”

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Letter to the Editor: Local School District Violates the Separation of Church and State at Graduation

Bruce Gerencser 9 Comments
letter to the editor

A letter submitted to the editor of the Defiance Crescent-News

Dear Editor,

Public education is foundational to success and progress. While parents are free to homeschool their children — as my partner and I did — or send them to a private school, we must not starve, neglect, or demonize public schools.

Public schools are government institutions, governed by local, state, and federal laws. Children from all walks of life attend public schools. Tolerance and inclusion are expected when our children or grandchildren attend school. My partner and I have sixteen grandchildren attending the Stryker, Tinora, Fairview, and Defiance school districts. We expect our grandchildren to receive well-rounded educations, taught by teachers who understand the importance of secular education and the concept of separation of church and state. Alas, a few teachers and administrators have attempted to proselytize our grandchildren or push their Evangelical beliefs. This, of course, should never happen. Christians are free to be school teachers and school administrators, but their personal beliefs should play no part in instructing students.

Recently, I attended a high school graduation — one sponsored and directed by a local school district. What a proud day for our family as one of our older grandchildren graduated with honors. In the space of three generations, we have gone from me being the first person to go to college, to our grandchildren going off to study at major universities. We owe their success to our public school system and its dedicated teachers.

As a non-Christian, I am accustomed to school districts trampling over the First Amendment and the wall separating church and state. I recently told a lawyer for the Freedom From Religion Foundation when speaking with her about the increasing encroachment of Lifewise Academy in Ohio’s schools, that there were enough church-state violations in rural northwest Ohio for FFRF to set up a full-time litigation office in this area.

The graduation ceremony featured a local clergyman who felt duty-bound to put in a good word for Jesus and his peculiar version of Christianity. Using the J-O-Y acronym, he reminded graduates of the importance of putting Jesus first. Never mind the fact that many of the graduates and attendees are not Christians. To be told that rightly ordering one’s life requires Jesus is beyond offensive. Such talk belongs in church, not secular public school graduations. I told a family member later that I live by the Y-O acrynym: yourself first, others second — no Jesus needed.

Bruce Gerencser
Ney, Ohio

What Are the Theological Differences Between Baptist Churches and Non-Denominational or Charismatic Congregations?

Bruce Gerencser 9 Comments
questions

Dr. Gero asked:

What are the core fundamental beliefs of Baptists that are shared with these “non-denominational” churches? Also what separates Charismatics/Pentecostals from Baptists? They look mostly the same.

Please see my posts titled Are Evangelical Churches Really “Nondenominational?” and Are Evangelicals Fundamentalists?

Nondenominational is Greek for Baptist. Theologically, there is little to no difference between nondenominational and Baptist churches. Go to a nondenominational church’s website, read their official doctrinal statement, and then compare it to the official beliefs of the National Association of Evangelicals and the Southern Baptist Convention. Any deviations are minor/insignificant. On secondary issues such as eschatology, pneumatology, ecclesiology, Calvinism, and Arminianism, there are differences of opinion, but none of which should cause the other to say, “You are not a real Christian.” Of course, there are always outliers, especially when you reach the outlands of Evangelicalism. I knew Calvinists who believed that Arminians were lost or Pentecostals who thought that you had to speak in tongues to be saved. All these exceptions do is prove the rule.

I should note, in passing, that many Charismatic churches are nondenominational. While their services may resemble a scene from One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, their core doctrines are as Baptist as any of the churches I pastored. Word of Faith churches and prosperity churches are an exception to this observation. Quite frankly, most of these churches are either heterodox or downright heretical.

There’s a difference between Charismatic churches and Pentecostal congregations, though that line has blurred somewhat over the years. I have attended numerous Charismatic and Pentecostal church services. I even preached for several Charismatic/Pentecostal churches. I generally found that Pentecostal churches were deeply influenced by the holiness movement, and many of them were appalled by what they saw in Charismatic assemblies. Charismatics seem to have no guardrails. “If God is moving, who are we to object?” the thinking goes. What started with speaking in tongues, has turned into all sorts of crazy, including raising the dead, hysterical laughing, and gold fillings magically growing in mouths. Just go to YouTube and search for Charismatic church services for evidence of my claims. Lots of cray-cray.

Sameness is in the eye of the beholder. I admit I have a sharply critical eye, so I tend to spot differences that casual church attendees might not see easily.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.