Evangelicals worship at the altar of female virginity. Premarital sex is verboten, and women are expected to maintain an intact hymen until their honeymoon. Men are expected to not dip their pens in the ink either, but rarely do Evangelical preachers mention male virginity. The reason is simple, women are viewed as gatekeepers. Evangelical boys and men are weak, pathetic horn dogs that will fuck their way through their churches unless stopped by iron-padlocked vaginas. In some circles, virgin teen girls and women sign purity contracts with their fathers, pledging to be daddy’s little girl until marriage. Frankly, I find purity contracts, along with daughter-father purity jewelry, downright creepy — especially in light of the ongoing sexual abuse scandals roiling through Evangelicalism.
Despite the monumental effort by Evangelical churches/pastors/parents to thwart their daughters from having sex before marriage, sexually aware teens and young adults do what they always have done — engage in sexual activity. Smart parents teach their children about safe sex and birth control, realizing that it is more likely than not that their children will not be virgins when they walk down the wedding aisle; that is, if they bother to marry at all.
In Deuteronomy 22:13-20, the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God sets forth how questions of virginity should be handled:
If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel’s virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel’s father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter’s virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him; And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
As you can tell from this passage of Scripture, virginity worship has been around for thousands of years. The Abrahamic religions, in particular, covet hymen-intact vaginas. Husbands expect their new wives to be unsullied when they have sexual intercourse for the first time. If they find out that another penis has been there before theirs, the woman is labeled a whore and the husband is free to divorce her. Keep in mind, the Bible says nothing about male virginity. I know, I know, s-h-o-c-k!
If a man says, hey, your daughter is not a virgin, it is up to her parents to prove otherwise by providing evidence of her virginity — a blood-stained sheet. I am still at a loss to understand how a man could have sex with a woman and not “see” the blood-stained sheet underneath him and his new wife. Perhaps, the woman’s parents were lurking nearby and gathered up the sheet as soon as the deed was done. But, even then, wouldn’t they have held the sheet up to their daughter’s husband and said, see, she was a virgin? She’s yours now! So many things in this story that don’t make sense; not that such insensibility is rare for the Bible. Remember, not only is this passage straight from the Christian God’s holy book, but it is also the never-changing law of God.
If a woman’s parents proved to the city elders that their daughter was indeed a virgin before marriage, her husband was required to stay married to her all the days of his life. Imagine THAT marriage! Imagine living with a man who accused you of being a whore and tried to have you executed. All the husband had to do to right the matter is pay 100 shekels to the father of the bride. After all, it was HIS reputation that was harmed by the husband’s accusation.
If the woman’s parents couldn’t prove their daughter’s virginity, their daughter was to be taken to the door of her father’s home and stoned to death by the men of the city. She would forever be known as a whore.
Above all else, remember this: You are right. They are wrong. You are coming from a superior position. You have God on your side. They don’t.
Never, never think about the possibility that you might sound arrogant and condescending when you keep asserting that God has led you to the real truth.
Accept uncritically and parrot the answers well-known Christian apologists give about challenges to belief. Never check these things out for yourself.
Do not listen to ex-Christians when they tell you why they left and how life feels after leaving faith. Turn off all curiosity about an ex-believer’s life experiences. Listen only to what the Bible tells you about why people leave and how it feels to them when they leave. This enables you to know more about how their lives feel than they do.
Always assume that individuals who never believed will be immediately convinced when you quote Bible verses as proof of your beliefs.
Ignore the feedback of ex-believers when you are quoting Bible verses to convince them, and they tell you you’re quoting verses they memorized or quoted when they were believers.
When someone surprises you by responding with a Bible passage that disagrees with your position, tell them they are not interpreting the passage correctly.
If you find out that an ex-believer has studied the Bible more than you, confidently assert they were never a true believer and consequently all their study was in vain.
If all your arguments fail, attack the character of the person who disagrees with you! Tell this individual that there’s no way his/her life can have meaning, and there’s no way s/he can live any kind of moral life. Top it off with the warning: “You’ll be sorry when you burn in hell!” And be sure to convey that you see that destiny as a just reward.
Remember that you’re not just an apologist for Christianity, you’re also an apologist for your brand of Christianity. Confront Christians whose theology is different from yours with the same intensity that characterizes your confrontations with atheists.
Funny stuff; sarcastic; not meant to be taken literally; a tongue-in-cheek jab at online Evangelical apologists. One online apologist, Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Theissen, thought these ten points were spot on. Why, he said AMEN, Brother Sledge, all the way from a basement somewhere in the Philippines.
Thiessen: There is nothing wrong with using the internet to further the kingdom of God but be careful as the rules of God still apply when you are a keyboard warrior In the following article, we are going to address 10 steps another believer has compiled to help other Christians be online warriors [that was not the unbelieving Sledge’s intention.].
Sledge: #1. Above all else, remember this: You are right. They are wrong. You are coming from a superior position. You have God on your side. They don’t.
Thiessen: This is true but with some caveats. You are right if you make sure you have the truth and do not assume you have it. Also, God is with us as long as you do not sin in your online work. Plus, Christians do not come from a superior position. We come from a humble one grateful that God has saved us and set us free from sin.
Sledge: #2. Never, never think about the possibility that you might sound arrogant and condescending when you keep asserting that God has led you to the real truth.
Thiessen: Sounding arrogant is not the same as being arrogant. What unbelievers do not understand is that once Christians have found the truth, they do not have to struggle or search for it. We have the truth and need to speak it in Biblical love. If it sounds arrogant or condescending to the unbeliever, that is because they come from a different viewpoint and they are deceived into thinking they are correct. [In other words, if I sound like a Christian asshole, that’s because unbelievers such as Bruce Gerencser are deceived.] However, some Christians are arrogant and condescending but that can be fixed with God’s help. This accusation is one where the unbeliever ignores the fact that they are arrogant and condescending when they trash the beliefs of Christians. It is a hypocritical complaint.
Sledge: #3. Accept uncritically and parrot the answers well-known Christian apologists give about challenges to belief. Never check these things out for yourself.
Thiessen: There is nothing wrong with this IF the well-known Christian apologist speaks the truth. We do not have to search for new information because the truth is the truth. You cannot expand on the truth. The only issue here is for those parroting Christians to make sure they have heard the truth. Just like the Bereans did in Acts. Once you confirm it as the truth, speak it all the time when it is appropriate to mention it. Just do not go into falsehood because the unbeliever will get upset. We are to speak the truth at all times.
Sledge: #4. Do not listen to ex-Christians when they tell you why they left and how life feels after leaving the faith. Turn off all curiosity about an ex-believer’s life experiences. Listen only to what the Bible tells you about why people leave and how it feels to them when they leave. This enables you to know more about how their lives feel than they do.
Thiessen: Ex-Christians have left the truth and are very vulnerable to the work of evil. As we have found over the years, the ex-Christians blame everyone else for their decisions except those most responsible for it– themselves and evil. While a few of them may have legitimate concerns, most are not. We have visited and read ex-pastor and ex-Christian websites and have seen them blame God and everyone else for their departure. Most of the time, they are at fault and not the church or Christians. The latter are just excuses for their decisions and the real problem is that the ex-Christian just does not want to follow God’s rules anymore.
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Sledge: #5. Always assume that individuals who never believed will be immediately convinced when you quote Bible verses as proof of your beliefs.
Thiessen: This is the first legitimate complaint on this list. Many Christians do have this attitude. They forget that you have to plant, then water, and then finally harvest. Evangelism is a process and it starts with the Christian being a Christian to all people.
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Sledge: #6. Ignore the feedback of ex-believers when you are quoting Bible verses to convince them, and they tell you you’re quoting verses they memorized or quoted when they were believers.
Thiessen: Nothing wrong with doing that. The verses are still true and it doesn’t matter if the ex-believer memorized them before they left the faith or not. What is important is that the ex-believer did not listen to those verses or implemented them in their lives. Their feedback only tells you this and their feedback should be ignored. They do not have the truth of those scriptures anymore and they are using this knowledge as a defense against the truth. In reality, they are ignoring what you are saying by using this defensive tactic. But we need to be careful of quoting scripture to ex-believers as they will trod the truth and pearls under their feet. [And they will also scoop up our bullshit and feed it back to us, one spoon at a time.[
Sledge: #7. When someone surprises you by responding with a Bible passage that disagrees with your position, tell them they are not interpreting the passage correctly.
Thiessen: Many Christians are surprised but generally, the ex-believer or unbeliever does not understand the passage correctly. The Bible does not contradict itself and every verse works together. When the unbeliever or ex-believer makes these quotes, they do not understand the Bible or how it is applied. Usually, they are interpreting the bible according to their sinful and subjective viewpoint and not using God’s objective view to get the right message. The Spirit of Truth is not with those who do not believe even if they were once believers. They do not know the truth. You can by following the Spirit of Truth to the truth. Then do not depart from the truth because someone uses the Bible against you and your knowledge.
Sledge: #8. If you find out that an ex-believer has studied the Bible more than you, confidently assert they were never a true believer and consequently, all their study was in vain
Thiessen: Yes, if they are an ex-believer, all of their biblical studies were in vain. The reason for saying that is that with all the knowledge and experience with Jesus they had, they still quit on Jesus. There is no other way to put it. They will not get to heaven just because they studied and memorized the bible. They gave up their salvation when they left the faith and that action makes all their previous work in vain. Whether they were a true believer or not should be left up to God to decide. We have to deal with the issues that confront us and not make judgments on their spiritual lives prior to their leaving the faith. Also, just because they studied the Bible more than you did does not mean they know or understand the Bible better than you. They no longer have the truth even if they are quoting scriptures. They threw everything away when they left the faith. No unbeliever or ex-believer can tell you the truth of what God’s word says. Even if they have a doctorate in biblical studies. [He’s talking about Dr. Bart Ehrman. Thiessen thinks he knows more about the Bible than all the unsaved scholars in the world — past and present.]
Sledge: #9. If all your arguments fail, attack the character of the person who disagrees with you! Tell this individual that there’s no way his/her life can have meaning, and there’s no way s/he can live any kind of moral life. Top it off with the warning: “You’ll be sorry when you burn in hell!” And be sure to convey that you see that destiny as a just reward.
Thiessen: Never attack the other person. Address their arguments and show them the error in their thinking. BUT NEVER attack the other person. You will notice that the only people Jesus insulted or attacked were the religious leaders of his time. But those attacks were also meant to be a lesson and an example to us as to how NOT to be. It was never permission to attack anyone who disagrees with us. believe it or not, most unbelievers already know they are going to hell, you do not need to remind them of that fact. As for ‘meaning and morality’, the unbeliever thinks they can be moral or have meaning as their definition of those aspects of life is different from the Christian. Many unbelievers who became Christians have stated that they did not have meaning in their lives before becoming Christians. [You might want to practice what you preach, Derrick. Dare I republish the nasty, hateful emails you sent me?]
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Sledge: #10 Remember that you’re not just an apologist for Christianity, you’re also an apologist for your brand of Christianity. Confront Christians whose theology is different from yours with the same intensity that characterizes your confrontations with atheists.
Thiessen: Always speak the truth. When you speak the truth it doesn’t matter if they are claiming ot be a Christian or an unbeliever, they cannot do anything against it. There is only one truth and only one true Christian faith [mine]. When you work for Christ on the internet or anywhere else, you are to bring the true Christian faith and the only truth. It does not matter if other denominations disagree with you, the truth [as interpreted by me] is the truth no matter what.
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Thiessen: In conclusion, when you do your online Christian work, make sure to do it in a manner that is glorifying to God. Not just that you think it is glorifying to God but that it actually is accomplishing that objective.
Thiessen: All points quoted above came from the article How to be an Online Evangelical Christian Apologist by Tim Sledge on the website we no longer link to. [In other words, I steal content from Bruce Gerencser’s website without providing proper attribution.]
Thiessen: We saw that there was a response to our article yesterday and as usual our English nemesis fille dit with distortions, etc. it is not worth responding to as it seeks to deflect the truth.
I wonder who Thiessen was talking about in his post? That’s a rhetorical question, by the way. If he is not talking about the Evangelical-preacher-turned- atheist Bruce Gerencser, he is talking about his other nemesis, Ben Berwick, AKA the English Meerkat. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I grew up in a system of religious faith that taught me a negative view of women. Every Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastor and professor who instructed me in the True Christian Faith® taught me the following:
Women were created by God to be their husbands’ helpmeets.
Women are commanded by God to be keepers of their homes. Their primary tasks are housekeeping, cooking meals, caring for children, and spreading their legs whenever their husbands want sex.
Women, when compared to men, are weaker vessels and need the protection of males.
Men are the head of their homes and their wives are to submit to their rule and authority.
Women are temptresses, leading men (and teen boys) into sexual immorality.
Women have the duty to dress in ways to keep men from lusting after them. Women, then, are sexual gatekeepers.
Women cannot be pastors or serve in any church capacity that puts them in authority over men. Some pastors and professors taught me that women were to be silent in church and were not permitted to participate in church governance.
These beliefs were modeled — albeit imperfectly and hypocritically — to me throughout my primary, secondary, and post-secondary years of school. It should come as no surprise, then, that once I began preaching and pastoring churches, I taught these beliefs to congregants. Multiple generations of people were taught by me that women were inferior, dangerous beings best suited for domestic work, teaching women, preparing church dinners, and staffing the nursery. Women who violated these Biblical “truths” were viewed as rebellious towards God, their churches, and their husbands.
My wife and I lived by these beliefs for many years. Our home was what I would call a traditional IFB home. Not only did Polly care for the home, she also home-schooled our six children. For five years, she taught our children and others in our church’s private Christian school. Polly did work in a church daycare (Temple Tots, a ministry of the Newark Baptist Temple) and taught third grade for one year at Licking County Christian Academy in Heath, Ohio. Polly received a lesser wage than male teachers because I was the head of our home; she was not.
Ten years before we deconverted, Polly took a job cleaning offices at a local manufacturing concern. She works for this company today as a manager, recently celebrating twenty-seven years on the job. By the time Polly started working at Sauder Woodworking, our marriage had evolved, taking on more of an egalitarian quality. Our quest for true marital equality and egalitarianism continues to this day. Old habits die hard, but we do try to present an egalitarian model to our children and grandchildren. I suspect this late in the game we will never outlive the deep marks complementarianism has made on us personally, on our marriage, and on our children.
It wasn’t until I deconverted that I was able to have female friends. As long as Jesus and I were best friends, I had no female friends. How could I, since I believed that some women were temptresses out to seduce and bed me? I had women I considered acquaintances, but I always kept them at arm’s length out of fear of being tempted to sin. I was taught to avoid the very appearance of evil. Thus, I was not permitted to enjoy the company of women if my wife was not present. No social interaction whatsoever was permitted. Of course, this kind of thinking cut me off from a wealth of wisdom and knowledge. When it came to the churches I pastored, I ran the show, and when serious decisions had to be made, it was the men who made them. Women were permitted to vote in business meetings, but there was no doubt about which sex and which member of that sex was in charge.
in 2008, I divorced Jesus. Once free of Christianity, I was then free to be friends with whomever I wanted, regardless of their sex or gender. Now, this doesn’t mean that I am oblivious to the fact that close company with the opposite sex can and does lead to moral compromise. That said, I don’t “fear” women. I own my sexuality, so it’s up to me how and to what degree I interact with women. Both Polly and I are free to enjoy the company of the opposite (or same) sex, even though, quite frankly, we enjoy one another’s company the most.
Several years ago, I had my beard trimmed. I was starting to look a lot more like Ted Kaczynski, the Unabomber, than Santa Claus. Prior to this appointment, my hair — when I had any — and beard had always been trimmed by men. This time a woman trimmed my beard. I became casually acquainted with her (and her husband) several years ago as I photographed my grandson’s baseball games. Her son played on my grandson’s team. I had run into her many times since at baseball games, high school games, and school events. I knew that she cut hair, so I asked her if she trimmed beards. I told her my previous barber was quite a hack, and I was looking for someone to care for Santa’s beard. She told me she trimmed beards, so I had her cut mine. She did a wonderful job. I must admit that it felt strange having a woman not named Polly run her fingers through my beard.
As Polly and I were leaving, I told the woman who trimmed my beard, “you are the first woman to ever cut my hair or trim my beard in almost sixty-two years.” I did not tell her that it took divorcing Jesus for me to be comfortable with a woman who is not my wife touching my hair and/or beard. I believe she is religious, so I don’t want to have THAT discussion while she has scissors in her hand.
Did you avoid relationships with the opposite sex due to your religious beliefs? Please share your thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Someone brought up the doctrine of regeneration recently in the comment section. I suspect that most people have no idea — including Evangelical Christians — what regeneration is all about.
By definition, regeneration means the “giving of life” by God to sinners. No one is saved apart from being regenerated. Many Evangelicals believe regeneration and being born again are one and the same. When God saves you, you are regenerated — given new life.
Regeneration, while sometimes perceived to be a step in the Ordo salutis (‘order of salvation’), is generally understood in Christian theology to be the objective work of God in a believer’s life. Spiritually, it means that God brings a person to new life (that they are “born again”) from a previous state of separation from God and subjection to the decay of death (Ephesians 2:5). Thus, in Lutheran and Roman Catholic theology, it generally means that which takes place during baptism. In Calvinism (Reformed theology) and Arminian theology, baptism is recognized as an outward sign of an inward reality which is to follow regeneration as a sign of obedience to the New Testament; as such, the Methodist Churches teach that regeneration occurs during the new birth.
While the exact Greek noun “rebirth” or “regeneration” (Ancient Greek: παλιγγενεσία, romanized: palingenesia) appears just twice in the New Testament (Matthew 19:28 and Titus 3:5), regeneration represents a wider theme of re-creation and spiritual rebirth.
Furthermore, there is the sense in which regeneration includes the concept “being born again” (John 3:3-8 and 1 Peter 1:3). Regeneration is also called the “second birth”. When Christians believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation, they are then born of God, “begotten of him” (1 John 5:1). As a result of becoming part of God’s family, man believes to become a different and new creature (2 Corinthians 5:17)
As you can see, Christian sects have a variety of interpretations of what regeneration is and when it happens — just like with every other doctrine. The Bible says ONE Lord, ONE faith, and ONE Baptism, but modern Christians didn’t get the memo.
From 1988 to 2003, I was an Evangelical Calvinist. Calvinists have a different take on regeneration from that of other Christians. Calvinists are the intellectual party. They spend countless hours arguing and debating the finer points of Christian theology. I know I did. One Sunday night after church, the men sitting in the gates and I argued about whether Arminians are real Christians; about whether famous preachers of yesteryear such as D.L. Moody and Charles Finney were True Believers®. Some of the men believed the five points of Calvinism and the gospel were one and the same. Thus, Arminians were not Christians. Moody and Finney were in Hell. I objected to their claims, saying that the five points of Calvinism were NOT one and the same as the gospel and that Finney and Moody, who were greatly used by God in the nineteenth century, were most certainly saved. We argued back and forth, without resolution. Later on, a rumor was floated among the members that I was not a “true” Calvinist. If I learned anything about Calvinists, it is that they love (and even relish) doctrinal skirmishes.
One argument among Calvinists is whether regeneration precedes faith. Most Calvinists say yes. Unsaved sinners are dead in trespasses and sins, unable to believe unless God gives them the ability to believe. Dead people can’t do anything, right? Once God gives a sinner life, he or she can then exercise faith — which is also a gift from God. For the Calvinist, salvation is the work of God from start to finish. Arminians also believe that salvation comes from God alone, but they also believe that human volition plays a part. This leads some Calvinists to label Arminians as heretics — saying they believe in “works” salvation.
Who is right? Opine away in the comment section. Personally, I left the ministry believing that the measure of one’s relationship was not right beliefs, but good works. This led to the keepers of the Book of Life labeling me as a “works salvation” preacher. To that charge, I gladly pleaded guilty. While I no longer believe in the existence of God, I still believe that the measure of all of us is not what we believe, but what we do. Don’t tell me, show me.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
In 2006, the largest Protestant denomination in the United States, the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), had 16 million members. Today, the sect has 13 million members. In 2022 alone, the SBC lost almost 500,000 members. Membership is now at a fifty-year low, and the 2022 loss was the largest in a century. (Please see Southern Baptists lost nearly half a million members in 2022.)
The membership decline has led to all sorts of pearl-clutching and finger-pointing among denominational leaders. Unfortunately, these leaders cannot see the forest for the trees. They refuse to take a hard look at what, exactly, is eating the life out of the SBC: Fundamentalism, Trumpism, misogyny, extreme beliefs on abortion and homosexuality, and other hot-button social issues. A number of SBC leaders and pastors are more than willing to burn the denomination to the ground. Presently, some Fundamentalists within the SBC are trying to change the denomination’s constitution. These pastors want the denomination to expel any church that has female pastors. That’s right, the pressing issue for Southern Baptists is the sex of their pastors. Sigh, right?
Instead of focusing on the SBC’s membership decline, I want to focus on its alarming Sunday attendance numbers. Membership numbers tell us very little about the health of the SBC. Most churches have widely inflated membership rolls. I pastored an SBC congregation in Clare, Michigan in 2003. The church had over 100 members. However, 60 percent of them never attended church. They were members in name only. One of my first acts as pastor was to clean up the roll. I sent letters to every member, asking them to declare their intentions towards the church by attending its services. If they did not attend the services, their names would be removed from the roll. Several families got upset at me, saying “How dare I expect them to attend church to be a member.” Most of the people I sent letters to did not respond. I sent them a second letter, and after several months, those who didn’t respond were removed as members.
The practical effect of doing this is that it restricts voting to people who actually attend the church. People who don’t attend the church shouldn’t be making its decisions. Church business meetings are often fractious, with dissenting groups lining up non-attending members to support their causes. Cleaning up the membership put an end to this kind of behavior.
While the SBC may have 13.2 million members, on any given Sunday, only 3.8 million people attend church, down 2.6 million attendance from 2008. On any given Sunday, 70 percent of Southern Baptist church members are nowhere to be found. They may be at the lake, picnicking, or sleeping in, but they sure as hell ain’t sitting in an SBC church listening to the gospel.
The Lifeway Research study also showed that the SBC closed or lost 416 churches and 165 missions. I suspect these numbers will continue to increase going forward. The SBC is dying before our eyes, one church, one member at a time. Of course, this can be said for most Christian denominations in the United States. Mainline denominations have been dying for decades. SBC preachers used to point to the liberal beliefs of mainline churches as the primary reason for their decline. Now they are facing a serious decline too. Time to get some popcorn and enjoy the show.
Prediction: SBC leadership will announce a NEW, yes, really, really, really, NEW evangelism program that will result in thousands of people getting saved and joining SBC churches.
Good luck with that, preachers.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, Southern Baptist pastor Rick Patrick faced public outrage over comments he made in a private forum about women, sexual assault, and the #metoo movement. His words made it out into the wild, and Patrick was forced to apologize several times for his offensive statements. I am sure that Patrick thought his words would be protected, but offensive words said in private often make their way to the Internet. Such is the nature of the digital age. I abide by the rule: don’t say anything privately that you wouldn’t want others to read on the Internet.
Evangelical pastors are noted for preaching sermons against gossip and crude speech. Growing up in Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches, I heard numerous sermons about gossip, off-color humor, swearing, and even the use of bywords. (See Christian Swear Words.) My pastors told me that Jesus heard everything I said, and that come judgment day, he would hold me accountable for my words. What these men of God didn’t tell me is that when they were behind closed doors with their colleagues in the ministry, they routinely failed to practice what they preached.
Years ago, I was a participant in a Reformed Baptist discussion group. The group was private and had pastors and elders in its membership. It was common for group members to talk — Greek for gossip — about problems in their churches or the difficulties they were having with particular members. We talked about and said things that would have proved to be embarrassing had they been made public. This group, at that time, was the Reformed Baptist version of the Catholic confessional. What was said was considered sacrosanct.
One day, as I was searching the Internet, I came across the “private” discussions from the group. Evidently, a programming mistake had made the group’s posts public instead of private. Horrified, I immediately notified the group administrators, and they fixed the technical problem. I thought, at the time, if church members and non-group clerics ever saw what we said, why, there would be all sorts of outrage and calls for discipline. Fortunately, my find saved the group’s collective bacon.
I was a pastor for twenty-five years. During my teenage years and my years in the ministry, I attended numerous pastor’s fellowships and conferences. These events allowed men of God to hang out with their own kind, giving them opportunities to talk shop and air their grievances. Most of these events featured a meal, either lunch or before the evening session. It was during these meals that pastors would gather in smaller groups and “talk.” I have heard and shared countless stories about church problems. The gathered pastors were expected to commiserate with gossipers, and, if warranted, offer advice.
Thanks to being in the ministry for so long, I had a lot of preacher friends, including a few men I considered BFFs. I would often visit my friends at their church offices or we would arrange to meet somewhere for a meal. Without fail, our conversations would turn to this or that problem, this or that contrary member, or one of the never-ending problems facing IFB and Evangelical churches. These discussions were often chock-full of information disclosed in private counseling sessions by church members or things overheard on the grapevine. The thinking was that sharing private information with colleagues in the ministry was okay. Who’s going to know, right?
Of course, I would know, and when I would later be asked to preach at the churches of my friends, I would have thoughts of what they shared with me over lunch or at one of our fellowship/prayer times. One pastor friend kept a dossier on every church member he talked to. He had become the pastor of a church filled with conflict and strife. The previous pastor had been accused of sexual assault (he later left the church and pastored elsewhere) and his wife had been accused of dressing seductively. The deacons ran the pastor off, and in came my friend. As is often the case, when young, inexperienced pastors — it was his first and only pastorate — take on troubled churches, they become sacrificial lambs. There was so much lying and deception going on that my friend decided to write reports of every conversation he had with church members. Much like James Comey did with his discussions with President Trump, my pastor friend kept intricate records of every conversation. He would share some of these conversations with me. This, of course, colored my view of these people. I knew many of them by name, so when I was in the presence of such-and-such person, I thought of what my friend had told me about them.
Another pastor told me about a conversation he had with an engaged couple. They wanted to know if having anal sex was a sin. They wanted to “save” themselves for marriage, so they thought having backdoor sex would be okay. No hymen was broken, so the woman would still be a “virgin” when she walked down the aisle. My pastor friend told them that they had to stop what they were doing; that anal sex was indeed a sin against God. My problem, of course, was every time I saw this couple (they never married) I thought of them having anal sex.
I could spend hours giving anecdotal stories about private things I heard and said when I was in the safe circle of my ministerial colleagues. Some of these men would come and preach for me, so I am sure they had the same thoughts I did. Oh, there’s the couple Bruce said hasn’t had sex in five years. Oh, there’s the man who confessed to having secret homosexual desires. Oh, there’s the teenager who got caught getting drunk and having sex in a motel room.
Christian church members should be aware of this fact: most pastors are gossips; most pastors are going to talk out of school; most pastors think sharing secrets with colleagues is all part of effectively “ministering” to others. Unlike professional counselors, pastors are not prohibited from repeating what was said behind closed doors. Many readers of this blog have likely heard sermons that made use of what was said to their pastors in private. Their pastor might not name names, but there’s no doubt about who was the subject of his sermon/illustration. IFB preachers, in particular, are noted for preaching passive-aggressive sermons using information shared with them in private. Smart, attentive congregants know when the pastor in his sermon is talking to or about them. Going through a tough time in your marriage and pondering divorce, and you talked to your pastor about your feelings? If, on the next Sunday, he preaches a thundering sermon on the sin of D-I-V-O-R-C-E, who do you think he is talking to? Pastors often use their pulpits as whipping posts, attacking rumors, allegations, and private conversations. In the pastor’s mind, God is “leading” him to share the truth. In fact, he is a gossip or rumormonger sharing things said in private.
I hope you will keep what I have written here in mind the next time you think about unburdening yourself to your pastor. Your troubles may be gossiped about, talked about among his ministerial colleagues, or turned into sermon illustrations come Sunday. While not all pastors have loose lips, many of them do, and since there is nothing that prohibits them from “sharing,” people should weigh carefully what they say to a pastor, understanding that he may not protect their privacy or he may consider shooting the breeze with his pastor friends as a safe way to share secrets and get advice about how best to handle problems. It is on this issue that the Roman Catholics are right. What’s said in the confessional is privileged. When I first started seeing a counselor, I asked him about how he treated our discussions. He told me they were privileged, and he would never divulge what I said to him (and when several of my children saw him, he never divulged to me what they said).
Did you ever have a pastor use what you said in private as fodder for a sermon, or did you find out later that he gossiped about you to his pastor friends or other church leaders? Please share your experiences in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. (Romans 16:17-18)
Paul wrote the verses above to the Church in Rome, telling them that they should “mark” those who were causing doctrinal divisions and offenses. What does the word “mark” mean? The word means to point out or pay attention to; to make congregants aware of those in their midst that do not serve the Lord Jesus Christ; those who with good words and fair speeches deceive simple people.
Two thousand years later, these verses have taken on a different meaning, especially among Evangelical Calvinists.
In Genesis 4, we find the story of Cain and Abel, especially the part where Cain murdered his brother Abel. In verse 15, God tells Cain that he was going to give him a “mark” to keep people from killing him. Some Evangelicals believe that God gave Cain black skin to differentiate him from others. Other Evangelicals believe the mark was some sort of birth defect or tattoo. Regardless, the mark was meant to make him highly visible to others.
Modern-day Evangelical Calvinists “mark” disobedient, heterodox, or heretical congregants and preachers by invoking church discipline:
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (Matthew 18:15-20)
There are four disciplinary steps detailed in this passage of Scripture:
When a person commits a trespass against you, go to him alone and discuss the matter
If he doesn’t hear you, take two or three witnesses with you and discuss the matter again
If he still doesn’t hear you and the witnesses, tell the church
If he refuses to hear the church, then the man must be excommunicated and considered a publican and heathen (an unsaved man)
When pastors and churches have disagreements with members whom they deem rebellious, out of the will of God, or otherwise doing or saying things that are considered contrary to what is right, some Evangelical churches initiate the church discipline process. I say “some” churches because most Evangelical preachers these days just marginalize and demean “rebellious” congregants, hoping they will leave and join a different church. None of the churches I grew up in ever exercised church discipline against an erring member. Only two churches I pastored disciplined disobedient church members. One church, Community Baptist Church in Elmendorf, Texas, used church discipline as a cudgel to beat members into submission. I witnessed people being excommunicated for everything from failing to attend to church to having beliefs considered heretical. When I resigned after seven months and returned to Ohio, my fellow co-pastor brought me in absentia before the church and kicked me out of the church. (But not Polly and our children because they were under the control of demons and not accountable for their behavior.) Why? I didn’t ask the church’s permission to resign. From that moment until today, Community Baptist considers me marked, a publican and a heathen. You can read more about this in the series I Am a Publican and a Heathen — Part One.
I pastored Somerset Baptist Church in Mt. Perry, Ohio for eleven years. We only disciplined one church member the whole time I was there: a married man who was having an affair. He denied the charges against him, and after following the procedure laid out in Matthew 18, I called a church meeting, laid out the verifiable evidence against him — i.e., catching him in the act making out with the woman in a grocery store parking lot and seeing his car numerous times at her home all night — and called for a church vote. The congregation, including his wife, voted him out of the church. He was, from that day forward, a “marked” man; someone that should be avoided.
In retrospect, I regret kicking him out of our church. All I saw was the act of adultery instead of the “why” behind the infidelity. What the man needed was counseling. What he got was ostracization and abuse. He and his wife later reconciled. I had the privilege of conducting his funeral a few years ago. A good man, a flawed man — aren’t we all?
When churches and pastors “mark” fellow Christians, they do so to marginalize them and limit their influence over others. Far too often, church discipline is used by authoritarian preachers to keep congregants in line. When the church is your “life,” it can be devastating to lose the most important thing in your life. Sometimes, only one family member is disciplined, causing untold harm to marriages and families. Imagine having a disagreement with your pastor, only to find yourself under church discipline, cut off from the church, your friends, and even your family. While practitioners of church discipline will tell you that it is meant to be “restorative,” more often than not discipline is punitive. It causes harm, not healing. And who is always blamed for this failure? The disciplined church member. If only he had obeyed, repented, and bowed a knee to the church’s and pastor’s God-given authority all would be well. Instead, he will wander the earth as a “marked” man; a publican and heathen, doomed for the fires of Hell.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Twice in the past week, Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preachers have told me that I am demon possessed; that I never was a Christian; that I was a deceiver and false prophet. Today, in an article for The Christian Post titled Can Christ-worshipers turn into demon-worshipers? Evangelical Calvinist John Piper had this to say about people like me:
No genuinely called and justified Christian ever falls away into demon worship — not permanently, anyway.
….
[Piper said the question pertained to people] who’ve been in the church for years and are outwardly identifying as Christian and yet are not truly born again and end up being swept away into the teaching of demons.
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The danger of seduction by deceitful spirits and teachings of demons is always present throughout this fallen age, from the time of Jesus till Jesus comes back. They’re always there. But there will be a greater temptation as the end of the age approaches and the Lord draws near.
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Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
In other words, the mystery of lawlessness will have a huge impact on nominal Christians, whose love for Christ is shallow and unreal. They will grow cold. Their resistance to the deception of demons will give way and they will not endure to the end.
Devout followers of Jesus are leaving Evangelicalism in droves; people who were pastors, evangelists, missionaries, youth leaders, worship leaders, and college professors, to name a few. These folks dedicated their lives to worshipping and serving Jesus. Everything in their lives said to the world, “I am a born-again child of the living God.” When critics are asked for evidence to justify their harsh criticisms, none is provided. Instead, unsubstantiated accusations are leveled against former servants of the Most High.
The root problem is theological. The IFB preachers mentioned above believe that once a person is saved, he can never, ever lose his salvation. Piper, a Calvinist, believes this too, but with this caveat: a believer must endure (persevere) to the end (death) to be saved. The first fifty years of my life testify to faith in Christ; to devotion to God, the Word, and the church. Years ago, a family member said to another, upon hearing of my deconversion, “If Butch isn’t a Christian, nobody is.” I have had former congregants tell me that they could no longer be friends with me; that they find my story disconcerting, causing them to doubt their own salvation. Fourteen years ago, a dear preacher friend of mine begged me to keep quiet about my loss of faith. He feared that some people upon learning of my deconversion, could become so troubled that they too would lose their faith.
People who knew me are left with an irreconcilable conundrum. They listened to my preaching and observed my behavior. They know I was a Christian in every way. Yet today, I am an outspoken atheist; an enemy of God; a mocker of all things holy and true. My writing repudiates everything I once believed. Some former associates believe I am still saved — just backslidden; that I will either one day return to the faith or God will severely chastise or kill me. Other associates, those of Arminian persuasion, believe I have fallen from grace; that I once was saved, and now I am not.
Preachers such as the aforementioned IFB pastors and John Piper take a different tack. Instead of acknowledging my past devotion to Jesus and the testimony of scores of people about my love for God, they dismiss my story out of hand, saying that I was never what I and others say I was. These critics only know me from afar, yet they feel more than qualified to render judgment. What they are, in effect, saying is that I am lying about my past and that the people who speak glowingly about my preaching and love and care for others are misinformed or deceived. In their minds, I have always been a deceiver, someone who, at the very least was and is influenced by the Devil and demons, or actually possessed by demons.
I get it. My story and those of other ex-preachers and church workers are troubling and challenge the assumptions many Evangelicals have about people who leave Christianity. “How can these things be,” they say to themselves, and instead of taking a hard look at their theological beliefs and presumptuousness, they take the easy way out by calling former believers names or claiming they are demon-possessed. Anything except wrestling with why an increasing number of devoted followers of Jesus are exiting the church stage left, never to return.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
This is the latest installment in the Songs of Sacrilege series. This is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a song that is irreverent towards religion, makes fun of religion, pokes fun at sincerely held religious beliefs, or challenges the firmly held religious beliefs of others, please send me an email.
Today’s Song of Sacrilege is It Ain’t Necessarily So by Cab Calloway. Originally performed and written by George and Ira Gershwin.
It ain’t necessarily so, (repeat) De t’ings dat yo’ li’ble To read in de Bible, It ain’t necessarily so.
Li’l David was small, but oh my! (repeat) He fought big Goliath Who lay down an’ dieth! Li’l David was small, but oh my!
Oh, Jonah, he lived in de whale, (repeat) Fo’ he made his home in Dat fish’s abdomen. Oh, Jonah, he lived in de whale.
Li’l Moses was found in a stream, (repeat) He floated on water Till Ole Pharaoh’s daughter She fished him, she says, from that stream.
It ain’t necessarily so, (repeat) Dey tell all you chillun De debble’s a villun, But ’tain’t necessarily so.
To get into Hebben don’ snap for a sebben! Live clean! Don’ have no fault. Oh, I takes dat gospel Whenever it’s poss’ble, But wid a grain of salt.
Methus’lah lived nine hundred years, (repeat) But who calls dat livin’ When no gal’ll give in To no man what’s nine hundred years?
I’m preachin’ dis sermon to show, It ain’t nessa, ain’t nessa, ain’t nessa, ain’t nessa, Ain’t necessarily so.
—Music by George Gershwin, lyrics by Ira Gershwin (1935)
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Have you ever wondered about how to become an online Evangelical Christian apologist? Tim Sledge, a former Southern Baptist pastor, shares how anyone can become an expert apologist.
Above all else, remember this: You are right. They are wrong. You are coming from a superior position. You have God on your side. They don’t.
Never, never think about the possibility that you might sound arrogant and condescending when you keep asserting that God has led you to the real truth.
Accept uncritically and parrot the answers well-known Christian apologists give about challenges to belief. Never check these things out for yourself.
Do not listen to ex-Christians when they tell you why they left and how life feels after leaving faith. Turn off all curiosity about an ex-believer’s life experiences. Listen only to what the Bible tells you about why people leave and how it feels to them when they leave. This enables you to know more about how their lives feel than they do.
Always assume that individuals who never believed will be immediately convinced when you quote Bible verses as proof of your beliefs.
Ignore the feedback of ex-believers when you are quoting Bible verses to convince them, and they tell you you’re quoting verses they memorized or quoted when they were believers.
When someone surprises you by responding with a Bible passage that disagrees with your position, tell them they are not interpreting the passage correctly.
If you find out that an ex-believer has studied the Bible more than you, confidently assert they were never a true believer and consequently all their study was in vain.
If all your arguments fail, attack the character of the person who disagrees with you! Tell this individual that there’s no way his/her life can have meaning, and there’s no way s/he can live any kind of moral life. Top it off with the warning: “You’ll be sorry when you burn in hell!” And be sure to convey that you see that destiny as a just reward.
Remember that you’re not just an apologist for Christianity, you’re also an apologist for your brand of Christianity. Confront Christians whose theology is different from yours with the same intensity that characterizes your confrontations with atheists.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
