A Guest Post by Dr. David Teabag, a graduate of Bumpkiss Bible Institute and I Know I Am Right Baptist University
Hell, also known as the Lake of Fire, is a real place; a place of fire and brimstone; a place where non-Christians will spend eternity being tortured by God. Don’t want to be roasted by God in Hell, repent and believe the gospel!
Skeptics such as that dumb-ass Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser often ask us to prove the existence of Hell. Where is Hell, exactly?, Gerencser laughingly asks. Well, today, I am happy to report that scientists have found Hell in the middle of the earth! I know, it is hard to believe, but as I write this post, billions of people are being tortured by the Prince of Peace right under our feet.
Lying beneath Africa and the Pacific in the lowermost part of the Earth’s mantle, surrounding the Earth’s core, there are two gigantic blobs that occupy around three to nine percent of the volume of the Earth.
There are of course no direct ways of seeing the Earth’s core, at least without being burned to a crisp or fighting your way through the mole people. The deepest hole we’ve ever dug – sweetly dubbed the “entrance to hell” – reached 12,263 meters (40,230 feet), still a long way from breaking through the Earth’s crust to the layers beneath. However, we can look under the surface pretty effectively by utilizing earthquakes in a technique known as seismic tomography.
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When this technique was new, the two large and strange structures were found, known as large low shear velocity provinces (LLSVPs). In these areas, generally called “blobs”, waves travel more slowly than through the surrounding lower mantle. Under Africa, the area known as “Tuzo” is thought to be about 800 kilometers (497 miles) in height, or about 90 Mount Everests.
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So, what are they? Unfortunately, we still aren’t entirely sure, though we have a few sound ideas. Given that the objects are denser than the surrounding mantle, it’s assumed that they are made of a different material, though we cannot tell exactly what it is – nor the exact density – based on seismic tomography data alone.
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Though we don’t know for certain what the blobs are, and will never see them directly, techniques for investigating beneath our feet are continually improving. Hopefully it is only a matter of time before we can refer to them by what they are, rather than mysterious behemoth blobs lurking deep beneath our feet.
These unsaved scientists may not know what these blobs are, but I do. I have a theology degree from Bumpkiss Bible Institute in Bada-Bing, New Jersey, and a master’s degree and doctorate in archeology and hellology from I Know I Am Right Baptist University in Bubbaville, Kentucky. I know, based on my extensive training straight from the 1611 King James Bible, that Jesus descended into the bowels of the Earth (Hell) when he died to visit those who lived there; that when non-Christians die they go straight to Hell; do not pass GO, do not collect $200. These blobs are Hell. Prove me wrong!
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I am sixty-six years old. I spent fifty years in the Evangelical church. I pastored Evangelical churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan for twenty-five years. I have spent the last decade writing about Evangelicalism. You would think, by now, that there is nothing Evangelicals could say or do that I have not heard or seen before. Surely, Solomon was right when he said, “there’s nothing new under the sun.” Well, Solly boy, you are wrong.
Several years ago, Evangelical author and preacher Randy Alcorn decided to answer a question about animals in Heaven. Evidently, more than a few Evangelicals are stressed out over whether Rover or Fido will go to God’s Heavenly Trump Hotel® when they die. Here’s what Alcorn had to say:
Look at Genesis 1 and 2, and the highlight of all creation built up to is people. But right before people came animals. Those living beings, the first living beings that God made, animals. And it’s magnificent and wondrous that the first responsibility God gave to human beings along with to be fruitful and multiply and fill the Earth was to manage and care for animals. Adam named the animals. With the Flood, God makes a covenant not only with people but with animals. This is stated again and again in Genesis 6 through 9 and the Flood account. What we find in Isaiah 65 is the wolf and the lamb—and he specifically calls this the New Earth, so this is not just the Millennium. This is the New Earth. In verse 25 of Isaiah 65, ‘the wolf and the lamb shall graze together, the lion will eat straw like the ox,’ and then in Isaiah 11, it’s got leopard, goat, calf, cow, bear, ox, lion, cobra. When God remakes the earth, why would he not remake it with animals? Well, we know He will for sure because of these passages that have animals on the new earth, but also because Romans 8 says the entire creation has fallen. Creation fell on the coattails of human beings. So animals suffer death because humans sinned, and humans suffer death. But it says in that passage that not just human beings but the entire creation—well then, who does that leave that has suffered on this earth? Animals will experience the resurrection of the sons of God. So since some animals who have suffered [and who are] alive in this lifetime on this fallen earth will … be raised, which animals will those be? I think the most logical answer to that would be—and wouldn’t it be just like a loving God to do this for His children—that He will bring back those precious pets that He has entrusted to our care. We have a golden retriever named Maggie, we had a dalmatian named Moses, [and] we had a springer spaniel before that named Champ. Those dogs are very real to me and I anticipate actual reunion with them in heaven. By the way, I didn’t use to believe that, until I spent those two or three [years] studying Scripture intently every day on that subject. The Bible changed my mind on that subject.
NOW I have heard everything!
First, Alcorn spent two or three years studying this issue? Really? Surely, he using hyperbole (or lying). How long can it take to read and study the relevant passages of Scripture? Not long, surely no longer than an afternoon in the study with a Bible and a good bottle of scotch. I suspect that Alcorn wants people to know that he really, really, really studied this issue before he opened his mouth and added to the canon of nonsense for which Evangelicals are known.
Second, one of the biggest weapons atheists have in their arsenal is the fact that the Christian God allows innocent animals to suffer. Unlike humans who are sinners, animals stand blameless before God — except when they pee on God’s white shag carpet. The sheer violence and brutality in the animal kingdom are sure signs that either the Christian God is a psychopath who gets off on suffering, is indifferent towards suffering, or doesn’t exist. I will take door number three.
Alcorn likely thinks that he is somewhat answering this challenge by saying that “some” animals will go to Heaven after they die. Animals aren’t sinners, nor can they repent and ask Jesus into their heart, so why does Alcorn assert that only “some” animals” will make it through the Pearly Gates? Simply put, Alcorn believes that only animals (pets) owned by Christians will inherit the Kingdom of God. In Alcorn’s mind, God is an awesome dude. He loves his bleating sheep so much that he would never eternally separate them from their pets. Alcorn leaves unsaid the flip side of his argument: that the pets of unsaved people will go to Hell when they die. You can’t have Heaven without Hell, right? Or so Evangelicals have been saying f-o-r-e-v-e-r.
Imagine being a dog or cat at the local animal shelter. You want to go to a good home, to be adopted by a loving, caring family. But now you have to worry about your prospective family’s religious beliefs. Choose wrong and you will be an eternal hotdog on a stick. Choose right and you will never have poop in an uncleaned cat box again.
Third, Alcorn doesn’t mention non-dog pets. Will Christian-owned snakes, pot-belly pigs, hamsters, gerbils, cats, horses, raccoons, squirrels, birds, lizards, and fish go to Heaven when they die? Or do Calvin’s doctrines of election and predestination apply to pets too; that only dogs chosen from before the foundation of the world will be saved from the wrath to come?
So many questions . . .
I can imagine Evangelical churches starting pet-centric evangelistic ministries.
Deacon Bob and Preacher Billy are out and about in the community knocking on doors. They come upon the home of an atheist who just so happens to own 666 dogs.
Knock Knock
The atheist cracks the door open, holding back with his foot numerous dogs who want to escape or hump Preacher Billy’s leg.
Atheist: Can I help you?
Preacher Billy: Hello, my name is Billy, and this is Bob. We are in your neighborhood today knocking on doors. We would like to share the good news of the gospel with you and your dogs.
Atheist: My dogs? (saying to himself, these nutters are crazier than the Jehovah’s Witnesses)
Deacon Bob: Yes, after three years of intensive Bible study, we have learned that dogs too can go to Heaven when they die!
Atheist: Really? (saying to himself, these two guys have brain damage)
Preacher Billy: Yep. According to God’s inspired, inerrant, infallible Word, some dogs go to Heaven when they die!
Atheist: Some?
Preacher Billy: Yes. Their salvation is contingent on their owner being a Christian. If their owner is, uh, you know, an atheist like you, they will go to Hell when they die. Surely, you want your dogs to run the golden streets of the New Jerusalem for eternity, right? Please, Mr. Atheist, ask Jesus to save you.
Just pray this prayer: Dear Baby Jesus, I know I am a sinner. I know you died on the cross to save me and my dogs. I ask you to come into my heart right now and save me, and take me and my dogs to Heaven when we die! In Jesus’ name, Amen.
Atheist: Sorry, Dude, but there’s no God, no Heaven, no Hell. When my dogs die, I put them in a hole in my backyard. End of story.
Deacon Bob: Blasphemy! (Holding up an oversized rawhide bone) Come out from him, Satan!
The atheist derisively laughs, opens the door, and turns 666 dogs on Preacher Billy and Deacon Bob. These men of God flee into the night, shouting, “Someday you’ll be burning in Hell with all your dogs! And then you will know we were right!”
The next day Preacher Billy and Deacon Bob are nowhere to be found. Late that day, the local newspaper reports that the two were chased by a horde of demon-possessed dogs and plunged over a cliff to their deaths (much like the Bible story about the Maniac of Gadera).
Moral of the story: beware of atheists and their dogs. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Today, I received the following email from an Evangelical man named Alex. My response is indented and italicized and indented. All spelling and grammar in the original.
I’ve read a lot of your site over many months, it is certainly an interesting read, though to a Christian, very sad to hear.
As is my custom, I checked the server logs to see how many times Alex visited this site and what he read. According to the logs, Alex, who hails from England, visited the Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser fifty-three times. Not bad, considering the fact that most Evangelicals who leave preachy comments or send me preachy emails read one or two posts before sharing with me what the Lord laid upon their non-existent hearts.
I have written almost 5,000 posts since December 2014. I highly doubt that Alex has read “a lot” of my writing. Some, a handful, yes, but “a lot,” no. I do appreciate that Alex read what he did. I’ll give him a gold star for that. However, as readers shall see below, Alex “read” but he didn’t comprehend or understand. Despite investing time in reading my writing, he learned little to nothing about me; what I believe; how best to interact with me. Instead, Alex did what Evangelicals do: attack my person by calling me names, attacking my motives, and threatening me with Hell.
It reminds me greatly of Judas, who walked so closely with the Lord yet wanted out and you know the rest. Yet when he got what he thought he wanted, freedom! and a bit of money, He found that actually none of that mattered really. He gave up heaven for what? nothing.
Alex sees me as a Judas-like betrayer of Jesus. Ouch, right? Alex says Judas betrayed Jesus because he wanted freedom and money. In the end, Judas found out that these things didn’t matter. He gave up eternal life in Heaven, for what? Nothing.
First, Judas was preordained to betray Jesus. The Bible calls him the “son of perdition.” Judas had no say in the matter. Jesus was a lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. God’s plan to redeem humanity was concocted in the mind of God before Judas, Adam, and Eve were created. I am somewhat surprised that Alex doesn’t know these things, especially since, based on a Google Search, he is a preacher.
Second, we really don’t know anything about Judas. All we have are stories written by unknown authors 30-90 years after they allegedly occurred. Remember, we have no writings from Judas, no evidence that he even existed. All we have are the words of men who, let’s face it, needed a scapegoat for what happened to Jesus. Thus, Judas has become a villain in the minds of twenty centuries of Christians; right up there with the man, the myth, the legend: Satan, aka the Devil, aka Lucifer, aka Beelzebub, aka Slewfoot. It is in this vein of thinking that Alex sees the Evangelical-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser.
Did I betray Jesus for freedom and money? Alex thinks so. Is it a betrayal to walk away from Christianity? Is it a betrayal when one realizes that Jesus is not who he claimed to be? Is it a betrayal to realize that the central claims of Christianity are untrue? Is it a betrayal to file for divorce from an abusive spouse? I think not. I devoted my life to following and serving Jesus. Yet, when I needed him the most; when I needed him to quell my doubts, questions, and fears, Jesus was AWOL, saying not a word to me. And so I started taking a close look at our marriage, finding out that I was married to deceiver, liar, and myth. If anybody is a “Judas” in this story, it’s Jesus.
Alex suggests that I left Christianity because I wanted freedom and money. On the former, he is right. I wanted the freedom to live my life as I pleased. I wanted the freedom to enjoy life to its fullest, free from the constraints of Evangelical rules, regulations, and standards. Of course, Alex will say, SEE! SEE! Bruce wanted to live a licentious life, so he divorced Jesus and ran headlong into the loving arms of hedonism. Of course, that’s not what happened. I have the freedom to do what I want, but, as a humanist, my life is governed by humanist ideals. I have moral and ethical values that matter to me. In fact, I am a far better Christian than many Evangelicals I know. Sure, I love to say fuck, enjoy good whiskey, watch R-rated movies on HBO, and have experienced making love in other than the missionary position for the purpose of procreation, but based on my good works, I am a pretty good Christian atheist. 🙂 All praise be to Loki!
On the latter — money — Alex is right too. We make more money today than we ever did in the ministry. However, contrary to what another Evangelical zealot recently told me on Facebook, we are not affluent. In fact, we are in the bottom quartile in income, especially when our exorbitant medical costs are taken to account. We don’t live in poverty, nor are we poor. However, if Polly lost her job or the U.S. government stopped paying social security recipients, we would be bankrupt in a month or two.
What is great about our post-Jesus financial position is this: we are free to spend our money any way we want. We no longer have to pay the Evangelical God taxes: tithes and offerings. We no longer have to cough up money every time our pastor — that was me — cooked up a fundraising scheme. We no longer have to “think of the missionaries” or support parachurch ministries. We are free to be as selfish or gracious as we want to be. We no longer feel “conviction” over spending money on ourselves. We now can enjoy a nice meal and a night out on the town without worrying about WWJD.
Alex seems to think that Christian bondage is a selling point. It’s not. I heard the call of secularism: “You are free, cheezy bread. You are free! Go! Go!” 🙂 Why in would I ever want to return to the bondage of Egypt? I have found the Promised Land, and I have no intention of returning to the intellectual equivalent of eating three meals a day of garlic and leeks.
Video Link And you, having walked so closely for so many years almost with the end in sight decide to betray the Lord.
Alex doesn’t seem to value intellectual integrity. People believe what they believe because they can’t do otherwise. Surely Alex knows that I left Christianity for intellectual reasons. I am an honest man. When I concluded in 2008 that the Bible was not inerrant or infallible; that the central claims of Christianity could not be rationally sustained, what did Alex want me to do? Fake it, until I make it? Faith it? What kind of person does Alex think I am? I am a man of principle and conviction. All Alex needs to do is provide sufficient evidence for the existence of the Evangelical God and the supernatural claims Christians make for Jesus and the Bible, and I will believe. Better yet, skip the evidence. All Jesus has to do is heal me, and I will believe. He allegedly healed people 2,000 years ago. Surely he can do it today! Is he not the same YESTERDAY, TODAY, and FOREVER? Think of how many people could be won to Jesus if God miraculously healed me and gloriously saved me? Yet, scores of Evangelicals have prayed for me, without success. Either God isn’t hearing their prayers, I’m more powerful than God, or he doesn’t exist. My money is on the latter.
I don’t know how many people put their faith in Jesus due to your preaching over many years, but it must be over 100 souls! Wow! Bruce, how many Christains could ever say that? Very few indeed! Imagine the blessings to be given to you in heaven ! yet you seem to want to throw it all away! I cant understand what for?
In one church alone, six hundred people made public professions of faith. Throw in a few hundred more over the course of twenty-five years in the ministry, and almost one thousand sinners have been saved through my preaching. Not bad, right? According to Alex, God would give me blessings (rewards) in Heaven after death if I would only come back to Jesus. I am throwing all these rewards away, and for what? In Alex’s Bible-sotted mind: nothing.
What, exactly, are the rewards I will receive? A new BMW? A yacht? A hundred-foot-long closet of color-matched clothing, complete with color-matched socks and shoes? No, according to the Bible, I will be rewarded with crowns. Woo Hoo, right? I guess I will be able to show off my crowns to all the Alexes in Heaven; those who didn’t win as many souls as I did? Nope. The Bible says that believers will cast their crowns at the feet of Jesus, giving him all the praise and glory for their good works. Jesus is like the boss at work who does none of the work but takes credit for yours.
You say when I die, thats it, the end. Yet how to you KNOW that? What are you basing this assumption on?
How do I know that when I die that will be the end of life for me? No Heaven, no Hell, no afterlife; just eternal darkness and nothingness. My view is not an assumption, it’s a fact. All the extant evidence available to me says that once people die, they stay dead. Five miles from my home lie my mother and grandmother in Fountain Grove Cemetery. Six miles to the south in the Sherwood Cemetery lie my dad’s parents, several aunts and uncles, and a cousin. These graves are an ever-present reminder to me that when people die, they stay dead.
If Alex has empirical evidence for his claim that there is life after death, he should provide it immediately. However, he has no such evidence. All he has are verses in an ancient religious text, faith, and feelings. That’s it. Does Alex expect me to believe in the existence of life after death, all because the Bible says so, or that he “feels” eternal life is a thing? Sorry, but that’s not how I roll. Want to convince me that Heaven, Hell, and the afterlife exist? All you have to do is provide me with sufficient empirical evidence that your claims are true.
You talk on and on about what you dont believe in, yet very little about what you now actually DO believe in.
Evidently, Alex hasn’t read any of the posts where I talk about my current beliefs; about my commitment to democratic socialism and the humanist ideal. That said, the focus of my writing is on telling my story, helping people who have questions and doubts about Christianity, and critiquing Evangelicalism. This has been my focus for the past fifteen years. I do, on occasion, write about politics, especially my progressive view of the world.
On the ABOUT page, I sum up my view of the world this way:
“You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.”
I believe in love and kindness. I believe in family, friends, and making the world a better place. I believe in enjoying what time I have left on earth, spending it with Polly, our children, our grandchildren, and people who matter to me. I believe in the Cincinnati Reds and the Cincinnati Bengals. I have great faith that one day the Reds or the Bengals will win a world championship.
Of course, all these things are secondary to Alex. What matters to him the most is life to come, and not the here and now. I am not willing to gamble the present away in the hope that I will receive some sort of divine payoff after death; a payoff no one has verifiably received.
Evoulution? then how did sex and reproduction start happening? how did life even start in the first place? It is impossible, no matter how much time you give it…..something cannot appear from nothing.
Alex is not a scientist and neither am I. I know enough to say that creationism is nonsense. Everything that science tells us about our biological world and the cosmos suggests that life and the universe did not come into existence in six literal twenty-four days; that Adam and Eve were not the first humans.
I wonder if Alex knows that scientists (or atheists) don’t think something came out of nothing. Surely, he knows this, right? Surely, he has read the countless science articles on the Internet that explain the existence of the universe? Surely, he has read books by actual scientists; men and women who have spent their lifetimes trying to understand our world? Surely, he doesn’t think Genesis is a science textbook?
I suggest Alex start here:
Video Link Yet there is still time for you to come back to the Lord!
How can Alex know this? Does he know whether I am one of the elect? Many Evangelicals have told me that I am an apostate or a reprobate — people beyond the saving grace of God. How could Alex possibly know the state of my soul? Maybe I am still a Christian, as many Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB) allege; once-saved-always-saved, headed for Heaven regardless of Alex’s pronouncements about my eternal destiny. Imagine Alex having to spend eternity with me as his next-door neighbor. 🙂
Don’t you miss walking with Him? Talking to Him? Being blessed by Him?
NO, NO, and NO. I Corinthians 13:11 says: When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
I grew up, putting away childish thoughts about a magic man in the sky pulling the strings of my life. Instead of praying to a deity that doesn’t exist, I talk to real people, including myself. 🙂
The Christian life as you know is a battle, and the dark side has deceived you, please turn back to the Lord while you still can. He loves you and is waiting to welcome you back.
The Christian life is a battle because Evangelicals believe the words of the Bible are true; they believe the words of preachers are true. If they would but weigh the words of the Bible and the words of preachers in the balance, they would find them wanting.
While Alex doesn’t threaten me with Hell, the threat is implied: “turn back to the Lord while you can.” If you don’t, God is going to torture you in the Lake of Fire for eternity. Such threats don’t work with me. All they do is remind me that the Alexes of the world believe in a monstrous deity; one unworthy of my time or worship.
Alex can’t possibly know if God loves me or desires to welcome me back to the club. It always amuses me when Evangelicals say Jesus is waiting on me; that he is powerless to save me; that it is up to me to excercise my will and return to the cult. Has Alex not read what the Bible has about the sovereignty of God, God’s decrees, and the inabiity of man to save himself? My salvation rests solely in the hands of God. He knows where I live. He knows my cellphone number and email address. If you are reading this, Jesus, let’s talk. Please stop having Alex and his merry band of cultists contact me. Have you read the things they say, Jesus? Why would I ever want to buy a new Kirby vacuum? 🙂
Alex suggests that I have gone over to the dark side. Only in Evangelical Christianity is intellectual light darkness. Only in Evangelical Christianity is freedom bondage. There’s nothing I can do for Alex other than to pointedly and honestly respond to him. He arrogantly believes he is right. That’s what certainty does, it breeds arrogance. Until Alex can consider the possibility that he could be wrong; that his beliefs are not as sure and steadfast as he thinks they are, there’s not much I can do other than recommend that he read one or two of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the history and nature of the Bible. Only then will there be a chink in his Evangelical armor; one through which a bit of knowledge and understanding will shine through.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Bob was my mom’s brother-in-law. Married to my dad’s sister, Bob was a rough-and-tumble truck driver and dirt-track race-car driver. Bob’s parents were devout Fundamentalist Baptists. Bob was raised in the church, and at the age of seventeen he walked the sawdust trail at a revival meeting and asked Jesus to save him from his sin. According to Independent Fundamentalist Baptist theology, Bob was now an eternally saved child of God.
After high school, Bob left home and abandoned the Baptist faith of his parents. Over the next six decades, Bob lived as if God did not exist. In every way, he lived as the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world. He was a booze-drinking skirt chaser known for sexually harassing and assaulting women. Female family members knew to steer clear of Bob lest they find themselves a target of his sexual advances. Age didn’t matter to Bob, and more than a few teen family members endured his touches, squeezes, and other demeaning behaviors.
Women got “used to” Bob’s sexual assaults. Viewing him as harmless, they would recount to me, “Oh, that was just Bob being Bob.” It was the 1960s and 1970s, after all, and that’s just how men were, I was told. As I will share in a moment, Bob was anything but harmless.
In early 1969, we lived east of Farmer, Ohio in a farmhouse owned by my dad’s sister and brother-in-law. I was in the sixth grade at Farmer Elementary School. One day, I was home from school sick. I spent the day in bed recuperating. In the early afternoon, Bob pulled into the drive. I figured he was there to see my mom, so I stayed in my room. A short time later, Bob left and I heard my mom calling my name. She was crying, saying that Bob had just raped her. She asked me to go to the neighbor’s house and call someone (I can’t remember who). I did, but no one ever came to our home.
You see, Mom had mental health problems — lots of problems. This meant, of course, in the minds of “healthy” people, she couldn’t be relied on to tell the truth. Bob was well-known in town. Bob would never rape anyone. Yes, he was a “little” too friendly with women, but, hey, that was just “Bob being Bob.” A few months later, we moved to Deshler, Ohio. Mom never talked about Bob after that. I suspect that she buried the rape deep in the recesses of her mind, right next to memories of her father repeatedly sexually assaulting her as a child.
Bob died a few years ago. His funeral was held at First Baptist Church in Bryan, Ohio. Bob’s parents helped start this congregation and were pillars of the church for decades. I attended First Baptist as a teenager. I went to Bob’s funeral, wanting to see what kind of send-off the once-saved-always-saved Baptists would give Bob, the Saved Rapist. The pastor, John MacFarlane, gave a sermon that spoke of the night sixty years prior that Bob had been gloriously saved, and that he was now in Heaven with his mom and dad. The pastor never mentioned that Bob hadn’t darkened the doors of the church since the 1960s and he, in every way, lived a life of debauchery. The pastor cared more about protecting the memory of Bob’s parents than he did telling the truth. I have seen this behavior countless times over the years: degenerate people preached into Heaven, all because they mentally assented to a set of theological propositions. And therein lies the vulgarity of once-saved-always-saved soteriology. It’s the same theology that says I am still a Christian, and that no matter what I say or do I will go to Heaven when I die. Just pray the right prayer, believe the right things and Heaven is yours!
As the funeral service went along, I found myself becoming increasingly angry. I wanted to rebuke the pastor for his lies. I wanted to scream at the congregation for their willful ignorance of what kind of man Bob really was. Most of all, I wanted to be my mom’s voice. Not a mile away, Mom lay silent in her grave. Oh, to bring her to life again so she could give testimony to what Bob did to her! On that day, I so wished that there was a Hell. If anyone deserved endless torment, it was Bob. Alas, there is no Hell, so the only satisfaction that comes from Bob’s death is that no other woman will ever have to suffer the indignity of being sexually assaulted by him. I wish Mom had been alive to see Bob meet his end. Unfortunately, fifteen years prior, Mom turned a Ruger .357 on herself, pulled the trigger, ripping a hole in her heart. Her beautiful, tragic life instantly came to an end at age fifty-four, due in no small part to men who saw her as an object of sexual desire and gratification, and not as the thoughtful, intelligent — and yes, beautiful — human being she really was.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
One of the more bizarre beliefs found within the confines of the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement is that there will be no women in Heaven. That’s right, ladies, there will be NO females in Heaven. The thinking goes something like this: God, the father is male and Jesus is male. In Heaven, Christians will receive perfect resurrected bodies just like that of Jesus. Thus, everyone in Heaven will be a thirty-three-year-old male. This means, of course, that God promotes and supports Transgenderism for women. Time to get your male on, ladies. Prepare now for eternity in Heaven as a m-a-n.
The late Peter Ruckman, a noted IFB preacher and defender of the King James Bible, had this to say about women in Heaven:
This means that every saved woman in the body of Christ is indwelt by a MAN, at least as far as sexual designations are concerned. Someday, the saved woman will be fashioned “LIKE UNTO HIS GLORIOUS BODY” (Philippians 3:21). (Bible Believers’ Bulletin. May 1986, page 3)
This would mean that every saved woman in the body of Christ will eventually become a THIRTY-THREE AND ONE-HALF YEAR OLD, SINLESS MALE (Phil. 3:20-21). She would be a perfect replica of the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29). (Bible Believers’ Bulletin. May 1986, page 3)So up in Heaven, ladies, you are going to be a 33 1/2-year-old male just
like your Saviour. If that seems odd or peculiar or distasteful to you Christian ladies, just remember that you have a man living inside of you (1 Tim. 2:5 cf. Col. 1:27), and that your destiny as a child of God is to be conformed to that man’s image (Romans 8:29). (The Book of Luke: The Bible Believer’s Commentary Series, page 636)
Since every Christian in the Body of Christ has a MAN inside him (or her) (Colossians 1:27; John 1:12) and is PREDESTINED to be conformed to the image of that man (2 Corinthians 4:4; Romans 8:29; 1 John 3:1-4; Philippians 3:21), there is no question at all about the future state of every Christian in the Body of Christ, except in the minds of Hebrew and Greek professors and the “vast majority of conservative, Bible-rejecting blockheads.” The believer will appear in glory as a 33-year old sinless male. (22 Years of the Bible Believer’s Bulletin Vol. 1 “The AV Holy Bible” page 110)
Moreover, everyone in heaven is a male…The woman is a “womb-man,” a man with a womb. (The Books of First and Second Corinthians: The Bible Believer’s Commentary Series, page 343)
The indication is that the only people who get a glorified body like Jesus Christ are people in the Church Age. The only people who get a 33-year-old sinless [male, see p. 596] body are people saved in the dispensation of grace. All others get their eternal life by partaking of a tree, and they go into eternity male and female, exactly like Adam and Eve were before they fell. (The Book of Revelation: The Bible Believer’s Commentary Series page 587)
Is it any wonder then, that in IFB churches that hold such views, women are lorded over by misogynistic men who think God has given them the right, duty, and responsibility to lord over the fairer sex?
My question is whether there will be women in Hell? I wasn’t able to find any IFB preacher taking up this subject, but I did find a few words from their fellow misogynists in Islam. The Islam Question and Answer site says:
Praise be to Allah.
It was narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) that women will form the majority of the people of Hell. It was narrated from ‘Imran ibn Husayn that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “I looked into Paradise and I saw that the majority of its people were the poor. And I looked into Hell and I saw that the majority of its people are women.”
(Narrated by al-Bukhari, 3241; Muslim, 2737)
With regard to the reason for this, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was asked about it and he explained the reason.
It was narrated that ‘Abd-Allah ibn ‘Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “I was shown Hell and I have never seen anything more terrifying than it. And I saw that the majority of its people are women.” They said, “Why, O Messenger of Allah?” He said, “Because of their ingratitude (kufr).” It was said, “Are they ungrateful to Allah?” He said, “They are ungrateful to their companions (husbands) and ungrateful for good treatment. If you are kind to one of them for a lifetime then she sees one (undesirable) thing in you, she will say, ‘I have never had anything good from you.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhari, 1052)
It was narrated that Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) said:
“The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) went out to the musalla (prayer place) on the day of Eid al-Adha or Eid al-Fitr. He passed by the women and said, ‘O women! Give charity, for I have seen that you form the majority of the people of Hell.’ They asked, ‘Why is that, O Messenger of Allah?’ He replied, ‘You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religious commitment than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.’ The women asked, ‘O Messenger of Allah, what is deficient in our intelligence and religious commitment?’ He said, ‘Is not the testimony of two women equal to the testimony of one man?’ They said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Is it not true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her religious commitment.’”
…..
And Allah knows best.
For Fundamentalist Baptist and Muslim women alike, Hell is their religion, and Heaven is getting as far away from it as possible.
No matter what women say or do in IFB churches, they will always be considered second-class citizens; inferior to men because the Bible says that women are weaker than men and more prone to emotional silliness. Women can’t be preachers, teachers of adults, elders, deacons, or political leaders. According to some IFB preachers, women just aren’t suited for such jobs. God wants women to submit to their husbands and pastors, and busy themselves with house-cleaning, cooking, fucking their husbands at will, raising children, and working in the church nursery. For these women, their husbands are their bosses, and it’s their duty to submit to them as unto the Lord. Ponder that thought for a moment. How does Jesus want you to submit to him? With love, commitment, and strict obedience. In patriarchal homes, there is a strict order: Jesus, pastor, husband, wife, children, and the dog. Upsetting this order, according to preachers of complementarianism, brings God’s judgment. No marriage is a good one without it being perfectly aligned with God’s order for the church and home. Or so preachers say, anyway.
Some IFB women endure such treatment for the sake of their children. It is not uncommon to see IFB women divorce their husbands once their children are out of the house. I suspect other women take the he that endureth to the end shall be saved approach. They willingly suffer being misused and abused, believing that God will reward them in Heaven for their sacrificial obedience.
But what if Peter Ruckman and his fellow misogynists are right; that women will be turned into men once they arrive at the pearly gates? Think about that fact for a moment, ladies! Imagine spending your life putting up with shit from men, only to find out when you get to Heaven that God hates you too and plans to turn you into a thirty-three-year-old man. Isn’t God’s plan wonderful?
My advice to IFB women is this: RUN! Flee the mind-numbing, psychologically damaging preaching of IFB pastors. If need be, tell your IFB husband that he has two choices: FLEE or separation/divorce. Life is too short for women to give it all up to the wants, whims, needs, and desires of religiously motivated men. There’s no Christian Hell or Heaven awaiting, ladies, so now is the time to make for yourselves your own heaven and hell on earth; hell for the men who demean you and heaven for yourself and those value you as people.
I shall wait for God’s anointed ones to show up and object to what I have written here. The BIBLE says ___________, they will say, and in doing so they will prove, yet again, that the Bible can be used to prove almost anything; that Peter Ruckman with his belief that there will be no women in Heaven is just as credible and believable as Christians who suggest otherwise. Evangelical Christianity is, in effect, a paint-by-number board without numbers. Believers can freely use — thanks to the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God — whatever colors they want to paint their picture. How dare anyone suggest that their particular picture is not a representation of True Christianity®.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Several years ago, I received the following email from an Evangelical man named Brad:
You are an accuser of the brethren, and in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ who took the cross for sin, may you be ashamed of what you have done! You will pass away one day Bruce, as we all do, and you will stand before God. Struggling in faith is one thing, becoming an atheist, and then picking on disgraced Christian leaders is another, this behavior is, at the root, the way of satan. How can you not see that?
Yes Bruce, satan is real. But so is the Lord, and He is infinitely greater. I think the reason you pick on fallen Christians, is because deep down you feel a need to validate your decision to leave the faith. You know at some level you are wrong, and a mighty terrible judgement is at the end of this decision.
Being here on your blog, is making me so uncomfortable.
Well, Brad, I am not ashamed. It’s important to turn a bright light on what evil men of “God” do in darkness. Too bad you think it more important to defend these men instead of applauding any and every effort to expose predator preachers. Too bad you think I am “picking” on these “fallen” Christians instead of seeing the importance of exposing harmful, predatory behavior.
I agree with you on one thing, we will BOTH one day pass away. Unlike you, however, I fear neither God nor Satan. Both are Bronze Age fictions that have no power over me. Threatening me with God/judgment/Hell is akin to threatening me with Harry Potter casting a spell on me.
You wrongly believe you have the supernatural ability to read my mind and understand my motives. I, in fact, do not know I am wrong, nor do I think a “mighty, terrible judgment” awaits me at the end of my life. I write what I do primarily out of a sense of moral and ethical responsibility. Yes, I, at times, have a smug satisfaction when I reveal for all to see the hypocritical actions of men and women who purportedly speak for God — people who demand others live a certain way that they themselves cannot or will not live. Such moral/ethical hypocrisy deserves exposure, if for no other reason than to show that Evangelicals don’t practice what they preach, nor do they follow the teachings of the Bible. To such people, I say, Don’t tell me how to live, if you are unwilling to live in the same manner.
I am glad my writing makes you feel uncomfortable. My hope is that feeling this way will cause you to take a hard look at your beliefs and practices.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I am often contacted by Evangelical zealots who purportedly are concerned over my lack of belief and my indifference towards their threats of judgment and Hell. Bruce, aren’t you worried that you might be wrong? Evangelicals ask. And right after they ask this question, they follow it up with an appeal to Pascal’s Wager (the number one apologetical argument used by defenders of Christianity). Evangelicals use Pascal’s Wager to attack the agnostic aspect of atheism. Since no one can be absolutely certain that God doesn’t exist, it is better to be safe than sorry. Of course, GOD in this equation is the Christian God, their peculiar version of God. Evangelicals have deemed all other Gods false, even though they themselves can’t be certain these Gods do not exist. If Evangelicals were honest with themselves, they would do what they ask of atheists: embrace ALL other Gods just in case one of them might be the one true God. Better to be safe than sorry, right?
As an agnostic atheist, I can’t be certain a deity of some sort doesn’t exist. Of course, I can’t be certain that life on planet earth isn’t some sort of alien experiment or game. Perhaps, life on planet earth is more Westworld-like than we think. How would we know otherwise? Assuming that we are not AIs in a multilevel game, how, then, should rational beings deal with the God question? All any of us can do is look at the extant evidence and decide accordingly. I am confident that the Christian God of the Bible is no God at all. I don’t worry one bit over being wrong. Now, there’s a .000000000000000000001 percent chance that I might be wrong, but do I really want to spend my life chasing after a deity that is infinitesimally unlikely to be real? I think not. Now, if I am asked whether I think a deistic God of some sort exists, that’s a different question. Not one, by the way, that changes how I live my life. The deistic God is the divine creator, a being who set everything into motion and said, there ya go, do with it what you will. This deity wants nothing from us, and is quite indifferent to the plight of the human race. Whether this God exists really doesn’t matter. She is little more than a thought exercise, an attempt to answer the “first cause” question.
Is it possible that I am wrong about the God question, and that after I die I am going to land in Hell? Life is all about probabilities, so yes anything is possible. However, when governing one’s life, our focus should be on what is likely, not on what might be possible. And what is likely is that there is no God, and it is up to us to make the world a better place to live. Evangelicals look to the Eastern Sky, hoping that Jesus soon returns to earth — thus validating their beliefs. This other-worldliness makes Evangelicals indifferent towards things such as suffering, war, and global climate change. Jesus is Coming Soon, Evangelicals say. Fuck everything else! As an atheist, I live in the present, doing what I can to make a better tomorrow. I dare not ignore war and global warming because the future of my children and grandchildren is at stake. I want them to have a better tomorrow, knowing that all of us have only one shot at what we call “life.” It is irresponsible to spend time pining for a mythical God to come and rescue you. First-century Christians believed Jesus was returning to earth in their lifetime. They all died believing that the second coming of Jesus was nigh. And for two thousand years, the followers of Jesus Christ have continued to believe that their Savior will come in their lifetimes to rescue them from pain, suffering, and death. Listen up, Christians. Jesus is dead, and he ain’t coming back.
I may land in Hell someday, but until I do I plan to enjoy life. I plan to love those that matter to me and do what I can make this world a better place to live. I have no time for mythical religions and judgmental deities. I am sure some readers are wondering how I can live this way without knowing for certain that nothing lies beyond the grave. None of us knows everything. Those who say they are certain about this or that or know the absolute “truth” are arrogant fools. What any of us actually “knows” is quite small when compared to the vast expanse of inquiry and knowledge that lies before us. I know more today than I did yesterday, but that only means I learned that McDonald’s has added new menu items and the Cincinnati Bengals are really good this year. Life is winding down for me, so my focus is on family and friends. One day, death will come for us, one and all, and what we will find out on that day is that most of what we thought mattered, didn’t. Perhaps, we should ponder this truth while we are among the living, allowing us to then focus on the few things that really matter. For me personally, God and the afterlife don’t make the list.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Somewhere in a dank, dark basement sits an Evangelical man who calls himself Revival Fires masturbating to a bloody picture of Jesus on the cross. Over the past two years, Revival has attempted to comment numerous times, without success. Thanks to a mistake I made two years ago, Revival Fires, using fake email accounts, sends me emails, much like the one below. He lustily enjoys describing in detail what Jesus is going to do to me after I die. I have added a few comments, but outside of that, what follows is Revival Fires in his own words. All spelling and grammar in the original.
The southside humanist group of NEA took a trip to the mountains for a weekend retreat that would feature several Christian and atheist speakers.
Boris Grinder [Bruce Gerencser] was the leader an older man who was a pastor turned atheist.
First day went well.
Day 2 the group went on a hiking trip.
Bus loaded up around 3:00 and on was
Boris -pastor turned atheist after 30 years of ministry
Tom- a young agnostic but doubtful
George-camp Evangelist/Gideon.
Maria- girl with the humanist group that trusts Jesus
Annie-believes God and the gospel but wants to “live a little” first and believes she is good enough for heaven.
On the 2 hour drive.
George shares the gospel 🙂
GEORGE:
“For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” Romans 3:23
Sin separated us from God.
God sent his only Son Jesus Christ to die for us and through his death and resurrection we have eternal salvation and forgiveness of sin.
“For I delivered unto you that first of all which I also received how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures that he was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures ” 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
Admit you’re a sinner
Believe sincerely that Jesus Christ died and rose again
Receive him now.
Will you trust in Jesus and be saved today?
Pray sincerely,
“Lord Jesus I am a sinner and I cannot save myself I believe that you died and rose again I accept you now I trust in you and you alone in Jesus name Amen “
If you prayed that and meant or God has saved you! [I just prayed this prayer! I am now SAVED!] 🙂
Several in the group prayed.
Maria with tears in her eyes said “I allowed Jesus to remove Satan’s doubt! I am free!”
Boris said “that’s a crock of S&”!? [shit]“
“There is no evidence of any of this baloney “
“I preached for 30 [thirty-five] years”
Annie said ” I know in my heart I need Jesus but I have plenty of time. Besides that I have never like killed anyone “
Tom said, I wish it were true but I highly doubt it”
1 hour into the bus ride back to camp….
The bus hits a baby deer and flips through a guard rail and down the mountain embankment.
No one survives the fiery crash! 😭
George and Maria and the others who accepted Jesus Christ awaken in a place so beautiful that cannot be described in words! [The Bible does not teach this.]
Angelic 🎵 singing 🎵 and praises to God!
A reunion of many who had gone into eternity in Christ took place. Love like they could not comprehend! They saw Jesus face to face!
He welcomed them home to heaven! As they are covered by his blood (spiritually speaking) for all eternity.
JESUS: “Well done thou good and faithful servants “.
Boris and Tom and Annie found themselves in a place of darkness and foul smell. [The Bible does not teach this.]
They heard growling and moaning and deafening screaming !
Their bodies (yes new bodies) ignited in flames!
ALL: AHHHHHHH!!!!!!! NOOOOOOO!!!!!! Fire 🔥!!!!!
Some time later they appeared before the throne of judgement.
JESUS CHRIST: “Depart from me ye cursed”
BORIS: wait no!!!! I preached for 30 [thirty-five] years and accepted you when I was 15!
JESUS: Your heart was never right before God and you like Judas never truly accepted me and followed after the evil one. Bind him hand and foot and throw him in the lake of fire!
BORIS: NOOOOOOO!!!!!! 😭😭😭😭 AHHHHHHH!!!!!! HELP ME!!!!!!
Annie: (CRYING) I thought I had more time!
JESUS: the Apostle Paul wrote “Behold now is the accepted time now is the day of salvation ” 2 Corinthians 6:2. Throw her in the lake of fire 🔥
ANNIE: AHHHHHHHH Oh God!!!!!!! NOOOOO!!!!!
The LOST: AHHHHHHHH!!!! IT BURNS!!!!!!
They experienced pain indescribable!
They remembered every sin they ever committed.
They remembered every chance they had to receive Jesus Christ.
They curse the day they were born.
They despise the second they were conceived!
Millions will be in the same situation as Boris and Annie and Tom one day.. 😭
Be wise and accept his gift like George and Maria and others did!
“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved “ Acts 16:31
[Orthodox Christianity teaches that when people die they go to the grave, not Heaven or Hell, to await physical resurrection and Judgment Day.]
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I’m lying in bed on my right side, with my left arm and hand extended straight up, hoping to relieve some of the pain in my arm. (I would later learn that herniated discs in my upper spine were causing the arm pain.)
Polly walks in and says, “I see that hand!”
(Polly’s mom is having surgery on Thursday and she’s driving to Newark to care for her mom for a day or two.)
I reply, sarcastically, “you should go to your mom’s on Wednesday so you can go to church with her.”
(Polly’s mom attends an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church where the pastor asks non-Christians to raise their hand if they would like prayer. To each raised hand he replies, “I see that hand.”)
With all the might of a scorned Baptist preacher’s daughter, Polly says, “HELL NO!”
I reply, “actually you should be saying HELL YES! If you don’t want to be saved you are saying YES to HELL!”
Polly laughs and says, “uh, huh, once saved, always saved!”
I reply, “that’s right….”
And we both have a hearty laugh, safe in knowing that no matter how much we mock God or deny his existence, we still get to go to Heaven when we die. Sweet, right?
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I found the following post on a public Calvinistic discussion forum. Many of us who used to be Evangelicals/Calvinists understand the psychological angst this man is going through as he takes Christianity/Calvinism to its logical conclusion. If God is sovereign, the first cause, the creator of everything, and nothing happens apart from his purpose and plan, then it is reasonable to conclude that the Christian God created sin, created Hell, and created billions of people he intended to torture in the Lake of Fire for eternity. Apologists for Calvinism go to great lengths to explain these conclusions, but I find their explanations to be little more than ass-covering. If God is who and what Calvinists say he is, then Calvinists must own the aforementioned conclusions. Either that or write a 666-page book defending the Big Kahuna’s honor.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Caution! Snark ahead! You have been warned.
