My religious lineage goes something like this: Christian, Protestant, Evangelical, and Baptist. Depending on your point in my story, my lineage also includes self-identifiers such as Calvinist, Reformed/Sovereign Grace Baptist, non-cessationist, Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB), Southern Baptist, and non-denominational. The first thirty years of my life were spent in the IFB church movement.
IFB believers are known for Bible literalism, inerrancy, and infallibility. IFB pastors and congregations are particularly known for their “Biblical” rules, regulations, and church standards. These standards govern virtually every aspect of life. Believers are taught to not fellowship with unbelievers and to abstain from the very appearance of evil. The “world” — everyone except IFB Christians — is the enemy, one that must be fought and vanquished every moment of every day — month in, month out, year in, and year out. Life is preparation for the world to come (Amos 3:3). IFB adherents are reminded weekly by their pastors of the sins of the flesh and how dangerous the unregenerate world really is. Self-esteem is deemed a sin, and giving in to carnal lusts and desires brings the chastisement of God.
Ask an IFB Christian what he does for fun, and he will likely list church-related, Jesus-focused, Bible-approved practices and experiences. As an IFB pastor, I planned all sorts of fun church activities: bowling, canoeing, roller skating, lock-ins, camping trips, hiking, and dinners, along with numerous promotional events used to draw large crowds to church. We had “fun,” but never apart from the centrality of the gospel and preaching. We NEVER had fun for fun’s sake. Jesus was at the center of, or lurking nearby, everything we did as a church.
Spending three decades in this sort of religious environment caused all sorts of psychological harm. Outside of our family attending dirt track races in the 1980s and 1990s, we rarely did anything “fun” that didn’t include Jesus and/or church. My partner, Polly, and I have six adult children. We took lots of road trips with our children loaded up in the back of a beat-up station wagon. While we saw all sorts of new things and had lots of fun, there was always a religious component. I would look for a church for us to visit while we were traveling, or better yet where I could do the preaching. There were eight people in our family, but Jesus always traveled with us, making sure we stayed on the straight and narrow while away from the prying eyes of other Christians.
Last Saturday, Polly and I attended a dance recital for two of our granddaughters. We had a delightful time. As I sat there watching my granddaughters do tap and ballet, I pondered how I would have viewed their performances if I were still an IFB pastor. I likely wouldn’t have even attended the recital. Why? I considered ALL dancing a sin. Worse, the dancers wore skimpy, sexually suggestive clothing — even the preschoolers. The dance routines were all performed to “worldly” music — even wicked, evil, vile rock-and-roll songs. ABSTAIN, BRUCE, ABSTAIN!
Several weekends ago, Polly and I discussed how different life would have been for us and our family had we remained Evangelicals; had I remained a pastor. I suspect we would have fractured, strained relationships with our children and grandchildren — especially if they weren’t Christians. Fundamentalism demands your all . . . all to Jesus I surrender, all to him I freely give, the hymn goes. Duty and obedience demanded surrendering “fun for fun’s sake” for the sake of the gospel. For IFB Christians, fun will wait till they reach Heaven. Until then, “fun” is what wicked, sinful worldlings do instead of going to church three or more times a week.
These days, Polly and I have fun because we can — no strings attached. Some of our fun is sinful, or runs contrary to our IFB upbringing. Southern Baptist evangelist, the late Bob Harrington, the Chaplain of Bourbon Street, preached a famous sermon titled “It’s Fun Being Saved.” (Please see Evangelist Bob Harrington: It’s Fun Being Saved.) Maybe I need to preach a sermon “It’s Fun Being a Godless Heathen.” When I compare my former IFB life to that of my present life as an atheist and a humanist, the here-and-now wins hands down. We no longer have to measure our behavior by the Bible or the teachings of our peculiar sect or the personal proclivities of our pastor (me). We are free to do what we want.
Ask former Evangelicals what they gained by deconverting, and they will say: FREEDOM. Freedom to live life on their own terms. Freedom to have fun and enjoy life without fear of offending God, the pastor, or the church.
How has your view of “fun” changed since you deconverted or left the IFB church movement? Please leave your thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Over the weekend, a Christian man named Steve Williams sent me the following message on Facebook Messenger. All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original. My response follows.
I’ve been concerned about professing believers falling away from the faith since a teenager over fifty years ago. About a year ago I came across something of your story in Texas, I think you were involved with a church plant in San Antonio. It seems that I recall you transitioned from being an independent, fundamental Baptist to become a Reformed Baptist but there were problems with a dictator type pastor who greatly opposed you. I may be wrong on some of the details.
That’s way too bad. If sad stories like that made you feel justified to leave the faith, my guess is that there were doubts in your mind apart from that tragedy. I would plead with you to seek the mercy and grace of God, that He would do a saving work in your mind and heart and life. He is a merciful Saviour, however His judgment is severe for the apostate. Do turn to Him today.
Pat Horner, a former Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preacher started Community Baptist Church in 1983. Horner, as was I at the time, was a hardcore Fundamentalist Baptist and Calvinist. By the time I arrived in Elmendorf in 1994, the church was running several hundred people in attendance. Horner and I were hardheaded, opinionated, inflexible preachers. That said, personality-wise, we couldn’t have been more different. Both of us had what I call an entrepreneurial spirit. What Community had after I showed up on the scene was two chiefs; two managers; two owners; two honchos. For readers who have owned businesses or managed concerns for others, you know this was a recipe for disaster; a colossal clusterfuck-in-the-making. Both Horner and I were authoritarian, we expressed our authority differently. Horner was a stickler on doctrine. The slightest misspoken word would bring rebuke and correction. I had more grace in my theology than Horner did. That said, when it came to how we “lived” the Christian life, my standards were more extreme than his. These differences in focus led to conflict. There were personal squabbles too, as I recount in the series mentioned above. And after seven months of conflict, I had had enough (and I am sure Horner felt similarly). So, what we really were was a couple who ran headlong into marriage, only to find out that they were incompatible. Divorce was inevitable.
While I am sure my negative experiences at Community played a small part in my deconversion, what has troubled me more is my treatment by this church post-deconversion. I have added their words, sermons, and whispers to those of former friends and colleagues in the ministry. Their hateful, judgmental words were heard loud and clear; evidence of the moral bankruptcy of Evangelical Christianity. Again, these things played a part in my deconversion, but they were not the deciding factors. I left Christianity because I no longer believed the central claims of Christianity were true. (Please read The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.)
I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years, and a Bible college-trained pastor for twenty-five years. I have written numerous posts about my story; about my life as a follower of Jesus, and my later deconversion from Christianity. Any fair reading of my story shows that I was a Christian; that I not only understood the gospel, but also preached it to others. There’s nothing in my story that remotely suggests that I never was a Christian, or that “God” had never performed a “saving work in my mind and heart and life.” Since God cannot speak for himself, it is up to my critics to provide evidence for their claim that I was a false Christian. I wasn’t perfect, but the bent of my life was towards holiness. Over the years I pastored scores of people and counted numerous men as colleagues in the ministry. Not one of them has ever said, “Bruce Gerencser was never a Christian.”
The bottom line is this: I once was saved, and now I am not. I know what I know, and no amount of rock-throwing from the outside will change this fact. That Williams and other Christians can’t square my story with their theology is their problem, not mine.
Williams ended his message as Evangelicals are fond of doing with a threat: “His [Williams’ God’s] judgment is severe for the apostate. ” In other words, “Bruce, you are going to burn in Hell unless you repent!” Over the past seventeen years, I have been threatened with eternal torture and Hell countless times — hundreds and hundreds of times. Look, I’m an atheist. I have not been presented with sufficient evidence for the existence of God — particularly the Christian deity. Jesus is dead, God is a myth, as are Heaven and Hell. Knowing this about me, why do Christians continue to threaten me with eternal, everlasting, neverending torture at the hands of their God? I suspect that these threatenings aren’t about me at all; that the need to be right fuels thundering pronouncements and imprecatory prayers against people different from them.
I am not low-hanging fruit, so it is beyond me why Evangelicals ignorantly think they can win me back to Jesus or, according to their theology, win me to Jesus for the first time. Regardless, I know all I need to know about God, Jesus, Christianity, and salvation. I am an atheist today, not because of a traumatic religious experience thirty years ago. but because I have weighed Christianity in the balance and found it wanting. It is really that simple. (Please read Why?)
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Revival Fires is like an incurable rash. It comes and goes, but never completely goes away. All I can do is apply the ointment of reason and common sense, hoping that the rash will recede. Revival Fires has been commenting on this site for several years. He also sends me emails and social media messages. I have repeatedly reported Revival Fires to Facebook — without success. He routinely violates Facebook’s terms of service, using fake email addresses and fake names to set up new accounts so he can harass me.
Lately, Revival Fires is using the “John Younger” moniker. He left numerous comments on my business Facebook page. In the past, he has contacted my partner, Polly, our children, and even their friends. In particular, he continues to harass my youngest son’s transgender friend.
Yesterday, Revival Fires sent me the following message:
Much like Dr. David Tee and countless other apologists, Revival Fires arrogantly thinks that beliefs=truth; particularly that his personal beliefs are the same as “truth.” This, of course, is patently untrue. Just because we believe something doesn’t mean it’s true. Consider all the things MAGA devotees believe about Donald Trump. Are their beliefs true? No, yet Trump’s followers are certain he is the greatest president in the history of the United States. Factually, he is not. I saw similar behavior in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement when it came to Jack Hyles, then pastor of First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana. The evidence (the truth) against Hyles was overwhelming, yet, even today, years after his death, some people believe Hyles was the greatest preacher since the Apostle Paul. (Please see The Legacy of IFB Pastor Jack Hyles.)
Revival Fires says that I am not interested in the truth. Of course, when he uses the word “truth,” he is referring to his personal beliefs. He thinks that people who are sincerely interested in truth will believe as he does. I am sure you have noticed this same attitude with Dr. David Tee. He’s not interested in honest debate and discussion. God gave him the words to say in his post on this site, so everything he wrote is “truth.” Anyone who disagrees agrees with him isn’t interested in knowing the truth.
In John 18, Pilate said to Jesus, “What is truth”? That’s a good question. Revival Fires, Dr. David Tee, and other apologists believe that the Bible, from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21, is truth; that the Bible is divinely inspired, inerrant, and infallible. There are books and then there’s the Bible. It is different and superior to ALL the books ever written.
While the Bible does contain truth, to suggest that it is the sum of truth, perfect in all that it says, is absurd. The standard definition of the word truth is “that which comports with reality.” Does everything the Bible says comport with reality? Only a rabid Fundamentalist would say yes.
Let me be clear, as a skeptic, humanist, and atheist, I am deeply committed to truth. I want to believe as many true things as possible. One of the reasons I left Christianity is because its teachings did not comport with reality. I weighed the central claims of Christianity in the balance and found them wanting. I am more than willing to confess my faith in Christ and follow him. All I ask for is sufficient empirical evidence for core Christian beliefs. I am willing to follow the path wherever it leads. The journey is what matters to me, not the destination.
I am confident that I have carefully and satisfactorily examined the claims Evangelicals make for the existence of the Christian God and the veracity of the Bible. I find these claims lacking. Until apologists come up with new or better arguments, I see no reason to pay them a moment’s notice. I am open to truth Christians, but not the shallow, irrational, contradictory truth you are currently peddling.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Several years ago, I received a “wonderful” comment from Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastor James Tester. Tester pastors Triad Baptist Church in Greensboro, North Carolina. In 1989, Tester moved to Hammond, Indiana to attend Hyles-Anderson College. In 1996, Tester left the Jack Hyles’ IFB mecca and moved to Longview, Texas to attend Texas Baptist College — an unaccredited college started by sycophant (ass-kisser, lackey, toady, bootlicker, fawner) Bob Gray, Sr., a Hyles-Anderson alum. After graduating from college, Tester worked for Bob Gray, Sr. at Longview Baptist Temple. In 2003, he was sent out by Longview Baptist to start a new church in Greensboro. North Carolina. (Just what Greensboro needed, another Baptist church, right?) Tester’s children both attended Texas Baptist College — now called Texas Independent Baptist Seminary and Schools.
As you will see from Tester’s comment, he’s a Bob Gray, Sr. fanboy, and much like his idol, he’s comfortable with passive-aggressive behavior and name-calling. I suspect Tester runs his church much like Gray, Sr. ran (lorded over) Longview Baptist back in the day. Today, Longview Baptist is pastored by Gray, Sr’s son. The church’s name has been changed to Emmanuel Baptist Church, and most observers believe the son has moved the church away from some of his father’s extreme behavior. It’s worth noting that Gray, Sr. no longer attends his son’s church. Make of that what you will.
With that background in mind, I give you Pastor James Tester’s comment (all spelling and grammar in the original). My commentary is indented and italicized:
Lol! Check out the author, look at his photo, read his bio and simply consider the source of this article! End of story!
What’s with IFB preachers and their obsession with my looks, weight, body shape, and penis size? Okay, maybe not that last one, but damn, these guys seem to think that if you don’t fit some sort of approved “look,” whatever you say can be dismissed out of hand.
What, in my bio, suggests that no one should listen to me? If anything, my bio reveals that I have a lot of preaching and ministerial experience; that I know what I am talking about.
What Tester is doing here is classic misdirection. Instead of actually interacting with what I have written (the message), he focuses on me personally (the messenger). All that matters is whether what I write is true or is an accurate portrayal of the IFB church movement in general and “Dr.” Bob Gray, Sr. in particular.
Tester says “end of story,” but I ain’t going anywhere. I will continue to expose the IFB church movement until I die. Just today, I had an investigative reporter from a major newspaper call me to talk about IFB churches and their pastors. I am always delighted to provide background information. Who better to get it from than a man who spent years attending and pastoring IFB churches?
Everyone that knows anything about an aggressive soul winning Independent Fundamental Baptist church knows that there are always disgruntles. You almost have as many walking out the back door as you have coming in the front door. There are always those that get offended at the preaching (truth) with many becoming bitter.
There were many times in the Bible where Jesus preached and the people were cut to the heart and drew Him to the edge of the city to stone Him and He escaped out of there hands. Conviction is powerful!
Tester admits that IFB church growth is a zero sum game; that as many people go out the back door as come in the front door. In fact, IFB churches continue to decline attendance-wise. Scores of large IFB churches are shells of what they once were or have closed their doors.
Tester would have us believe that the people leaving IFB churches are disgruntled; that when they could no longer stand getting their toes stepped on, they fled to friendlier confines.
While it is true, some congregants do become disgruntled and leave for other churches, but to suggest this is always the case is laughable. Men such as Gray, Sr., Jack Hyles, and James Tester psychologically abuse church members, bombarding them three times a week with preaching meant to inflict harm. People leave because they are tired of being abused.
Tester, true to form for IFB preachers, absolves Gray, Sr., Hyles, and I suspect, himself, from any culpability or accountability for how their preaching and behavior harms others.
I was there as a member in the most successful years of LBT through the early to late 90’s. I graduated TBC (The Bible College). I worked on staff in the early 2000’s. Sadly, I have seen people come and go. I personally know why many left. I have seen what they became after they left. It was shocking and very sad to see peoples lives totally destroyed, not by Brother gray or the preaching of truth but by sin and rebellion. The result was broken homes, divorced marriages, drug addiction, alcoholism, criminally convicted of crimes etc. Don’t blame God, the church or Bro. Gray for that.
Tester asserts that those who left Longview Baptist Temple have turned to sin and rebellion against God. Why, their departure from the IFB Mecca of Texas, led to broken homes, divorce, drug addiction, alcoholism, and criminal behavior. Can’t blame God or Gray, Sr. for how people turned out after they left Longview Baptist.
Lost on Tester is the fact that Gray, Sr. and Jack Hyles and countless other IFB pastors such as Steven Anderson and Tester himself, preach a truncated, bastardized gospel; a gospel called 1-2-3 repeat after me or decisional regeneration. Simply put, salvation is procured by assenting to a set of propositional truths and praying the sinner’s prayer. Nothing else is required or demanded from sinners. Just “believe,” and go on your merry way.
This kind of gospel, of course, makes no lasting difference, thus the constant turnover. As long-time readers know, Gray, Sr. was a consummate bean counter. All that mattered to him was the number of souls saved. Based on my calculation of the number of people “saved” at Longview Baptist, every person in Longview, Texas is now saved.
The real enemy has always been Satan, sin and people like the author of this article that is trying to sow discord among the brethren.
Ah yes, the real enemies are Satan, sin, and Evangelicals-turned-atheists such as Bruce Gerencser. Again, Tester refuses to see things as they are, blaming others for the decline numerical decline of the IFB church movement.
Tester accuses me of “sowing discord among the brethren.” In other words, my writing causes turmoil among IFB preachers and congregants. And to that charge, I gladly plead guilty. Nothing would make me happier than to see the IFB church movement implode, and church members leave for churches that preach a healthier, kinder, loving faith. Who doesn’t want to put an end to the abuse, right? If every IFB church in the United States closed overnight, it would be a good day.
As for the author having many friends from the old LBT, I can only say, that birds of a feather flock to together. If they are truly “friends” then they are the same in many ways. Think about that for a second. The Bible says in Amos 3:3, “Can two walk together, except they be agreed?” No one that is a so-called friend to this author (who is a self proclaimed atheist) is right with God (Let that sink in). Anyone that is feeding this author with this kind of trash is like Simon in the book of Acts 8:23 when Peter said to him, “For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.”
Yes, I have “spies” everywhere; people who share with stories about the IFB (and Evangelical) churches in their communities. One such person was the late Steve Gupton. Steve attended Texas Baptist College and the Longview Baptist Temple years ago. Others have contacted me and shared their own Bob Gray, Sr. horror stories. Don’t like people talking out of school? Treat people better. Stop verbally abusing and manipulating them.
I wonder if Tester has bothered to consider the fact that, according to his soteriology, I am still a Christian. I may be a “self-proclaimed atheist,” but according to the gospel preached by Gray, Sr., Hyles, and Tester, I am still a born-again Christian. Once saved, always saved, right? Sweet baby Jesus, Heaven will be my home someday. Tester will likely be my next door neighbor. Awesome!
I’m not surprised by this kind of junk being put out there, if this author was alive in Jesus day he would be saying the same kind of trash about Jesus. He would be criticizing the way Jesus spoke to the Pharisees when He called them a generation of vipers, saying that He is mean and not compassionate in His preaching. He would have written about that fact that He spent time with the sinners and the outcasts of the day saying that He has double standards and lives like those that He choses to be around. He would write articles slamming His doctrine saying that He was teaching and preaching against Old Testament law which is contrary to the writings of Moses. Jesus had many that falsely accused Him in His day. One of His right hand men that worked with him for years, Judas Iscariot betrayed Him. They came out of the woodwork at his mock trail and lied about Him, His teachings and His ministry.
Tester is suggesting that Jesus being persecuted in his day is the same as Bob Gray, Sr. and other IFB preachers being “persecuted” today. My, oh my, what a distorted view of one’s importance.
May this article be an encouragement to those who still believe the Word of God, go soul winning, and believe in the old time tried and proven paths of the KJB. The devil doesn’t like it when we obey Scripture, preach and live truth. That is why articles like this are written. We must be doing something right!
Tester thinks that my opposition to Gray, Sr. and the IFB church movement is proof of his and their rightness; that the only reason I write about them is that they must be doing something “right.”
I will leave it the astute readers of this blog to decide who is “right.” I can say that I have been contacted by scores of current and former IFB pastors, evangelists, missionaries, professors, and church members over the years. Their stories paint a picture of a movement that can be best described as a cult. Tester, of course, will never believe that he is a cultist. Until some sort of personal or theological crisis causes a chink in his certainty, there is no way of reaching him (and others like him). Certainty breeds arrogance. And as readers can see, Tester is full of both.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
For those of us raised in Southern Baptist, Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB), Freewill Baptist, and Holiness churches, we are oh-so-familiar with what is commonly called in such churches “hard preaching.” or “stepping on toes” or “calling out sin” or “naming names.” Hard preaching is almost always loud and animated, often with pulpit pounding and foot stomping. Preachers who preach this way — as I did early in my ministry, emulating (or imitating) preachers from my youth or big-name pastors/evangelists whom I admired — take pride in offending people. Calling out specific sins in the congregation or attacking preachers, colleges, and parachurch organizations by name often offends. But, that’s okay in the preacher’s mind, cuz he’s just preaching the Word. Jesus and the Apostles offended people with their words, why shouldn’t I?, Fundamentalist preachers think. Offending people gets their attention, or so the thinking goes, anyway.
Over the years, I have shared with readers numerous offensive emails and comments from Evangelicals. These so-called followers of Jesus could have been polite and respectful while sharing their disagreements with my writing, but having attended churches pastored by men who love to offend, they think the best way to reach me or get my attention is to use offensive words. When called out on their behavior, such people often say that they are just speaking truth; that their words are straight from the Word of God; that my being offended is a sign of conviction. Thinking the adage “you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar” is a conspiracy theory, abrasive, bombastic Evangelicals think “you will catch more sinners with offensive speech than kindness.” In their minds, if you leave a church service without broken toes, bloody lips, and bruised faces, the man of God ain’t doing his job.
Imagine growing up in such an environment, three services a week of hard preaching. Imagine fear, guilt, and judgment being served up at every church service. Imagine your pastor calling out your sins by name. Talk about a self-esteem killer, a wound that runs so deep that all you see in the mirror every morning is a vile, worthless sinner who would split Hell wide open if it wasn’t for Jesus saving him.
The purpose of the body of Christ is to love, show compassion, and extend grace. Certainly, preachers need to teach the Bible and help congregants apply it to their lives, but how they do so speaks volumes about the kind of person they really are. When the Bible is used as an offensive weapon, bloody carnage is left in its wake. Evangelical churches are filled with hurt and wounded people; people who sincerely love Jesus. Their spirits are battered and bruised, and the person who did this to them stands in the pulpit every time they attend church. And the sad thing is that people think this abuse is normal. How could they think otherwise? Long-term conditioning and indoctrination give them a warped view of “normal.” I know for my partner, Polly, and me, it wasn’t until after we deconverted that we saw, for the first time, how much psychological harm our five decades in Evangelicalism caused us. Counseling office waiting rooms are filled with people who have/had pastors who loved to offend.
It seems obvious to me that being an asshole is not a virtue, but sadly, for many Evangelical preachers, their “obvious detector” is not working. Either that, or they love being mean to people.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
One way Evangelicals hide their beliefs and practices is to self-identify as “nondenominational.” Sectarian affiliation carries certain baggage that may turn some people off, especially if they have had negative experiences with a particular denomination. Using the nondenominational label gives people unfamiliar with Evangelicalism a false impression of a church or pastor. Nondenominational says to people that a particular church or preacher has no sectarian connection or beliefs. This, of course, is patently untrue.
Most nondenominational churches are independent (or quasi-independent) Baptist assemblies that typically have congregational government structures. All one needs to do is look at a church’s official statement of belief to see that there is no doctrinal difference to speak of between First Baptist Church and Praise Cathedral and Bible Baptist Church and Bada Boom Bada Bing Jesus is Lord Assembly. Each church might be Charismatic, Pentecostal, Calvinistic, or Arminian, or have differing views on eschatology, pneumatology, or other secondary issues, but their core doctrinal beliefs and practices are similar, if not identical.
Evangelicalism is defined by certain foundational beliefs and practices. Thus, Evangelicalism is a Christian sect divided according to peculiar secondary beliefs. And yes, I am aware that some churches and pastors elevate these secondary beliefs to the level of what people must believe to be a Christian. For example, some Calvinists think Arminians are unsaved and some Pentecostals think “Christians” who aren’t baptized by immersion or who don’t speak in tongues aren’t saved either. Evangelicalism is, in every way, a denomination in the same way the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) is a denomination. Churches may be independent or loosely affiliated, but their beliefs and practices suggest they are denominational.
A common ploy among Evangelical churches is for congregations to drop their denominational names. This is especially true for churches affiliated with the SBC and the Assembly of God. The goal is to give off the appearance of being nondenominational and hopefully lessen the negative opinions people have of denominations.
I have previously shared that while Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches are “independent,” they do affiliate with one another, just as Southern Baptists do. (Please see Let’s Go Camping: Understanding Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Camps.) IFB churches have horrible reputations. What better way to distance a church from being viewed this way than to change its name and remove IFB from all church literature and advertising? King James Baptist Church becomes Bible Believer’s Community Church and Victory Baptist Church becomes Faith Bible Church. Nothing changes except the name.
Our Father’s House, West Unity, Ohio 1995-2002. We were a nondenominational church in name only. Theologically we were a Baptist congregation, with a Calvinistic twist.
Lifewise Academy — an Evangelical parachurch organization — exploits a quirk in federal and state law to establish release-time Bible classes for Ohio public school students. Currently, over 170 school districts have Lifewise programs! How in the hell did this happen? Lifewise tells two lies to school boards and superintendents:
We are a nondenominational program
We teach children morals and ethics
Lifewise is, in fact, Evangelical. I mean 100 percent, unabashed Evangelical. Lifewise doesn’t teach generic morality and ethics; it teaches explicitly Evangelical dogma. Internal Lifewise documents reveal that the organization’s number one goal is to evangelize students perceived to be unsaved. If Lifewise is nondenominational, children of all sects would be welcome, and no attempt would be made to “save” them. That’s not what’s happening. Suppose your child is Roman Catholic or attends a Unitarian congregation. Will they be considered “Christians?” Maybe, by some of the teachers, but Lifewise’s internal documents suggest that such children are ripe for conversion. According to Lifewise, there is one gospel (theirs) and one plan of salvation (theirs). A Catholic child who thinks baptism and confirmation “save” her is deceived (by Satan himself). Catholicism is a false religion, the whore of Babylon. The Unitarian child? My God, he thinks all roads lead to God and Heaven and good works are what matter. He definitely is deceived. Lifewise’s grand plan is to make every child a good Evangelical and make sure that they are attending a “good” Bible-believing church.
The next time a Christian tells you she is nondenominational, ask yourself what she is trying to hide? If she is a Baptist or a Pentecostal or a Charismatic, why doesn’t she proudly wear her denominational name tag? What doesn’t she want you to know or see? Don’t take my word for it. Go visit a local Southern Baptist congregation and then visit a church that says it is nondenominational. Set aside music and preaching differences, paying careful attention to their beliefs and practices. Don’t pay attention to secondary issues that separate them. Once the peripheral stuff is peeled back, you will likely find a Baptist church with a congregational ecclesiology. The nondenominational label is little more than a magic trick clerics and sects use to hide their sectarian distinctives. Don’t be fooled.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
This is every man’s right. Each has only one life to live. God looks down and sees that every man is incomplete. God gives a man a woman, and that woman is supposed to complete that man. If you fail to do it, it won’t be done. If he dies without ever having it, it’s because you didn’t give it to him. You have taken from him what is every man’s right. Every man’s right is to have a completer. That’s why God made you!
A lady came to my office not long ago and I gave her this truth. She said, “I’m not going to do all that stuff.”
I said, “I’ll give you an alternative suggestion.”
She said, “What?”
I said, “Go over here to the bridge over the Chicago River and jump off.”
“What?”
“Go jump in the river.”
“Why?”
I said, “You’d go to Heaven, and your husband wouldn’t have to live in hell!” Listen to me, especially you young ladies, you unmarried ladies, you ladies who haven’t been married long. I’m trying to help you. I’m not trying to take any freedoms away from you. I’m trying to give you a liberty that you’ll never enjoy unless you become what God has made you to be.
I said to that lady in my office for counsel, “Look, you are standing in the way. Your husband is a good man. He’s not going to have anybody else. You’re standing in the way of your husband ever having a completer. You’d be a lot better off, young lady, in the early days of your marriage, if you would go over and jump off the bridge so your husband can have in his lifetime someone to complete the circle.”
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I was an Independent, Fundamentalist-sin-hating, Devil-chasing, pulpit-pounding, King-James-waving Baptist preacher. I prided myself on HARD preaching, just like old-time Baptist preachers.
If people were happy with my preaching it meant I wasn’t preaching hard enough.
Cecil Hodges, an old IFB preacher from Georgia said one time:
“We hit our people over the head with the sin stick so often that they duck when we begin to preach.”
I was one of those kinds of preachers.
Preach long. Preach loud.
No subject was spared.
Preaching the whole counsel of God required preaching about EVERY sin, even the unpopular ones — such as chewing gum during church, writing notes in church, and using the bathroom during the sermon.
One young preacher I heard about was upset over people getting up to use the bathroom during his sermon. He sternly told his flock:
I don’t want anyone using the bathroom while I am preaching. If you need to use the bathroom, pee in your shoes. You can wring out your socks after the service.
He was fired several weeks later.
In IFB churches, the pastor is god. He’s the law. What he says goes. The Church CAN fire him, but it is often hard to do. After all, in many cases, the pastor started the church. He has a following no matter what he says or does.
When the pastor stands up and preaches, whatever he says is taken to be the gospel. A good IFB church member hates what the pastor hates and loves what the pastor loves. To go against the pastor usually meant you were looking for another church to attend.
Two incidents stand out for me that I think would illustrate how I preached.
Two school teachers attended the church I pastored. They were husband and wife — good people. They joined our church after the congregation they attended had a split (a common occurrence in IFB churches). I will call them The Smiths.
The Smiths taught high school. Mr. Smith was a girls’ high school basketball coach and taught English. Mrs. Smith taught business classes. Both of them were members of the teacher’s union.
One week, the teacher’s union took a policy position that was contrary to what I thought the Bible taught. I concluded that a Christian who was right with God could NOT be a member of the teacher’s union.
Sunday came, and I entered the pulpit ready to do battle with the sin of being part of the teacher’s union. I preached long and hard. I exposed the sin of belonging to the teacher’s union. I called on all teachers in the church (all two of them) to leave the teacher’s union.
They left all right.
The church.
Early in my ministry, I became convinced that the Masonic Lodge was a Satanic organization. The local Masons had come to me and asked to use our church bus to attend a Masonic function in a nearby city. I told them absolutely not, and then proceeded to let them know how Satanic the Masonic Lodge was.
On the following Sunday, I entered the pulpit ready to do battle with the sin of being a member of the Masonic Lodge. I made it very clear that a person could not be a Christian and a Mason, and no one who was a member of the Masonic Lodge could be a member of our church.
There were several members of the Masonic Lodge visiting our church.
They got the message.
We never saw them again.
I am sure some of my more liberal Christian readers are saying WOW about now. You should be.
I was taught in Bible college that God often builds a church by subtraction. Losing people could be a good thing. Ultimately, fellowship is a bunch of fellows in a ship all rowing in the same direction (often right over a waterfall).
When people left it was never my fault.
After all the Bible says:
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:19
I saw leavers as carnal, soft, weak people who had no stomach for real, hard, Holy Ghost-inspired Bible preaching.
I was wrong.
I do not have enough life left to repent of all the foolishness I did in God’s name. I ran off a lot of good people — people who had the misfortune of thinking differently from me.
I was not an oddity within the Baptist church. In Independent and Southern Baptist churches, I would have been considered typical, especially in the 1970s and 1980s. As many of the readers of this blog can testify, preachers such as I are quite common. Legalism and cultic control of people (now called spiritual abuse) is far too common, not just in Baptist churches, but in every branch of Evangelicalism.
I should note that I did not remain the preacher described in this post. Over time, I came to realize how abusive I was. In the late 1980s, I learned to preach expositionally, and doing so helped to get me away from the type of preaching with which I started my ministry. Towards the end of my ministry, I was considered a liberal by many of my Baptist preacher friends. They thought I had gone soft (and from their perspective I had).
A survey of atheists and agnostics will certainly show that a large number of them were raised in rigid, legalistic Christian environments. Fundamentalism extracts a huge price from everyone it touches.
Were you raised in a church that prided itself on hard preaching? How did this kind of preaching affect you psychologically? Please leave your thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Why bother, right? I have spent the past seventeen years asking Evangelical Christian apologists and zealots to give Evangelicals-turned-atheists a fair hearing. I have asked them to accept our stories at face value. Who better knows their story than the person who lived it? When a person tells me that they are a Christian, I believe them. Who am I to say that they are not one? Sadly, Evangelicals refuse to offer the same grace to people such as I and countless other Evangelicals-turned-atheists.
Today, an Evangelical apologist going by the name Charles — today anyway, since he has used other names in the past, trying to evade moderation — left the following comment on the post How to Witness to an Atheist (all spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original):
Sorry to offend but most atheists were “intellectual Christians” before they “deconverted”. They likely never truly accepted the gift of God through Jesus Christ. Because once someone experiences the light of Christ they’re not going to run back into darkness.
Yes Bruce is a extremely rare bird. And actually reminds me of another pastor. Sam Kinison. If you don’t know who that is. He was a hellfire and brimstone holiness Pentecostal preacher in the 70’s sadly left the ministry in the 80’s and became one of the biggest foul nasty mouthed comedians of the 80’s and beginning of the 90’s. I’ve never read anything where he advertised to have become an atheist but it was kinda obvious as he would make fun of Christianity in his comedy act.
And he would also do his comic routine the same way he used to preach Pentecostal sermons. With the loud yelling speaking in tongues style.
Sam kinision was killed in an auto wreck in 1992 and witnesses said he was talking to someone they couldn’t see or hear that assured him of something and he died peacefully. So if that’s true he was still saved.
Salvation is a gift and Christ will not take back a gift if it has been truly received. I hope it’s the same for Bruce as it was for Sam and that he was truly saved.
Charles begins his comment by saying “sorry to offend.” This, of course, is what someone says when he is going say something offensive to someone or a group of people. Charles isn’t “sorry” at all. Had he been, he never would have written his comment. No, Charles had every intention of offending. He wants, dare I say, needs, his words to cause harm.
How does Charles know that “most atheists were intellectual Christians before they deconverted?” No study I am aware of affirms this claim, so I suspect that Charles knows this because it “feels” right to him. Charles is claiming that most Evangelicals-turned-atheists were never “real” Christians; that they had head knowledge of Christ, not heart knowledge. (Please see Missing Heaven by Eighteen Inches.) How he determines the difference between heart and head knowledge, Charles does not say. Wouldn’t determining one’s locus of faith be God’s purview, and not that of fallible, sinful men? Yet, Charles, as all Fundamentalist Christians do, speaks with certainty on my former Christian life and that of thousands of people who read this blog. He KNOWS they are “intellectual Christians” because if they weren’t they would still be Christians. This is, of course, circular reasoning, much like Charles’ logic “The Bible is the Word of God because the Bible says it’s the Word of God.”
Charles tries to deflect criticism by saying that “[The Evangelical-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser] is an extremely rare bird.” Charles can’t find fault with my past beliefs, practices, and lifestyle, so he must grudgingly admit that I really was a born-again child of God. Not only does Charles think I used to be a Christian, he believes I still am. That’s right, outspoken atheist Bruce Gerencser is a Christian! Nah, nah, nah, once-saved-always-saved. Once you say the sinner’s prayer — and you really, really, meant it — you can never lose your salvation. No matter what I say or do, when I die I will go to Heaven. Sweet, right? Hell no. Why would I ever want to spend eternity with the likes of Dr. David Tee, Revival Fires, John, Steve, Charles, and a cast of thousands? No thanks.
For some reason, Charles decided to use the late Sam Kinison as some sort of object lesson. According to a story for which I could find no primary evidence, Kinison was seen muttering to “someone” before he died, and then he peacefully expired. This, according to Charles, is proof that Kinison died a believer.
Let me conclude that some Evangelicals would consider Charles’ soteriology heretical. I know I would have back in my preaching days. Charles’ gospel is what I was taught as a child and as a student at Midwestern Baptist College. I preached a similar gospel for years until I came to see that I was preaching a bastardized gospel; that faith without works is dead. For Charles to even suggest that I am presently a Christian is absurd. That Charles can’t square his theology with my life is his problem, not nine. This I know is true: I once was saved, and now I’m not.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
— U.S. Constitution, First Amendment
Central to our way of life in the United States is the First Amendment of the Constitution: freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of peaceable assembly, and freedom to petition the Government for redress of grievances.
In this post, I want to briefly talk about freedom of speech (or expression).
Among other cherished values, the First Amendment protects freedom of speech. The U.S. Supreme Court often has struggled to determine what exactly constitutes protected speech. The following are examples of speech, both direct (words) and symbolic (actions), that the Court has decided are either entitled to First Amendment protections, or not.
The First Amendment states, in relevant part, that:
“Congress shall make no law…abridging freedom of speech.”
Freedom of speech includes the right:
Not to speak (specifically, the right not to salute the flag). West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943).
Of students to wear black armbands to school to protest a war (“Students do not shed their constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate.”). Tinker v. Des Moines, 393 U.S. 503 (1969).
To use certain offensive words and phrases to convey political messages. Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971).
To contribute money (under certain circumstances) to political campaigns. Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976).
To advertise commercial products and professional services (with some restrictions). Virginia Board of Pharmacy v. Virginia Consumer Council, 425 U.S. 748 (1976); Bates v. State Bar of Arizona, 433 U.S. 350 (1977).
To engage in symbolic speech, (e.g., burning the flag in protest). Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989); United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990).
Freedom of speech does not include the right:
To incite imminent lawless action. Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969).
To make or distribute obscene materials. Roth v. United States, 354 U.S. 476 (1957).
To burn draft cards as an anti-war protest. United States v. O’Brien, 391 U.S. 367 (1968).
To permit students to print articles in a school newspaper over the objections of the school administration. Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, 484 U.S. 260 (1988).
Of students to make an obscene speech at a school-sponsored event. Bethel School District #43 v. Fraser, 478 U.S. 675 (1986).
Of students to advocate illegal drug use at a school-sponsored event. Morse v. Frederick, 551 — U.S. — 398 (2007).
The term “hate speech” is often misunderstood. “Hate speech” doesn’t have a legal definition under U.S. law, just as there is no legal definition for lewd speech, rude speech, unpatriotic speech, or other similar types of speech or expression that people might condemn. The term often refers to speech or expression that the listener believes denigrates, vilifies, humiliates, or demeans a person or persons on the basis of membership or perceived membership in a social group identified by attributes such as race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, religion, or other protected status. Speech identified as hate speech may involve epithets and slurs, statements that promote malicious stereotypes, and speech denigrating or vilifying specific groups. Hate speech may also include nonverbal depictions and symbols.
In the United States, hate speech receives substantial protection under the First Amendment, based upon the idea that it is not the proper role of the government to attempt to shield individuals from ideas and opinions they find unwelcome, disagreeable, or even deeply offensive. Instead, the government’s role is to broadly protect individuals’ freedom of speech in an effort to allow for the expression of unpopular and countervailing opinion and encourage robust debate on matters of public concern even when such debate devolves into offensive or hateful speech that causes others to feel grief, anger, or fear.
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However, it goes without saying that just because there is a First Amendment right to say something, doesn’t mean it should be said.
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The First Amendment does not protect illegal conduct just because that conduct is motivated by an individual’s beliefs or opinions. Therefore, even though hate speech is protected by the First Amendment, illegal conduct motivated by an individual’s hate for a particular protected group may be regulated by local, state, or federal law, and / or university policies. These laws are sometimes identified as “hate crimes.”
It is important to understand that the First Amendment restricts government from regulating speech (expression), though there are exceptions. The First Amendment does not apply to speech restrictions enacted by businesses and private citizens. Over the years, countless Evangelicals have said that I am violating their right to free speech by not letting them say whatever they want on this site. However, this blog is not connected with the government in any way. It is owned and operated by a private citizen: me. No one has the right to comment on this site unless I permit them to do so.
As a writer, I have the right to say what I want, regardless of whether people agree with me. We do have civil slander and defamation laws, but the bar is high for the prosecution of such offenses. Just because someone says something about you that you don’t like doesn’t mean he is slandering you.
Yes. Individuals, not just the media, can be held liable for defamation if they either publish (libel) or say (slander) something about someone that isn’t true and that person suffers harm as a result. If you defame a private individual, that person would have to be able to prove: 1) that you made a statement, reported as fact, to another person; 2) that the statement was false; 3) that the statement caused damage to that person; and 4) that you were negligent in making that statement. If you defame a public figure (such as a celebrity or member of government, for example), that person will have to prove: 1) that you made a statement to another person, reported as fact; 2) that the statement was false and caused damage; and 3) that you made the statement with actual malice-that is, with knowledge that the statement was false or with reckless disregard as to whether the statement was false or not.
Remember, however, that you cannot be held liable for voicing your opinion, only for making untrue factual assertions.
Sadly, many people think they have a constitutional right not to be offended. This, however, is not true.
Our right to be offensive is increasingly being seen as this pesky, little symptom of the First Amendment that must be either begrudgingly entertained or reluctantly accepted. People will casually write off being offensive as uncouth or unbecoming of a civilized society; they are, however, mistaken. The ones who are annoyed by our right to be offensive are the same ones who are likely to be ignorant of the fact that we are where we are today as result of individuals offending the orthodoxies of their day. They are also likely unaware of the consequences that limiting offensiveness can have.
One might ask themselves whether it’s worth being offensive in today’s era of wokeism, microaggressions, and cancel culture. The answer should be (and always will be) a resounding and resolute yes. Below are three reasons why we must embrace, and continue, our tradition of being offensive.
First, we owe it to all of those who came before us and who sacrificed so much in the name of giving offense. We owe it to those who were mocked and ridiculed, booed and hissed at, beaten or imprisoned, exiled and ostracized, and hanged or burned at the stake all for simply offending the doctrines and dogmas of their day. Literal blood, sweat, and tears were given by countless generations so we could be where we are today.
Secondly, giving offense has been the main driver of change over (at least) the last millennium. As pointed out above, our society has gotten to the point it is at today because individuals thumbed their noses at the norms and orthodoxies of their day.
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Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, it is imperative that we continue our long tradition of offending contemporary orthodoxies because the only other alternative is clamping down or dismissing speech and expressions that are deemed offensive. The notion that any idea that is legitimately expressed can be silenced or banned on the grounds that it is merely “offensive” is censorship, and as one of our greatest founding fathers, Benjamin Franklin, put it, “Censorship is the handmaiden to tyranny.” So, if you are against tyranny, you have to be for offensiveness.
As was stated at the start, the right to be offensive, which has been affirmed to us as citizens by various Supreme Court cases (RAV v. St. Paul, Texas v. Johnson, Snyder v. Phelps) is increasingly being portrayed as a thorn in the side of modern society; as if the only thing stopping us from achieving an idyllic society is our individual right to give offense. It is time that that misconception comes to an end and we start to view this inalienable right for what it really is: the heart and soul of the First Amendment.
No religion has a right to be exempt from criticism, the security minister has said ahead of a crackdown on extremism.
Tom Tugendhat said no faith had a right not to be challenged amid concerns that some extremists have used intimidation and threats of violence against those perceived to have insulted Islam.
It follows the case of a teacher in Batley, West Yorks, who received death threats after showing pupils a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed during a religious education lesson almost two years ago and has remained in hiding ever since as he fears for his life.
Mr Tugendhat declined to comment on individual cases but he said: “There is absolutely no right for any religion to be offended, if we accepted that then we’d still be Catholic.
“Every religion has the right to be challenged and there is no religion that has the right to be immune from that for any reason at all.”
Speaking on GB News, he added: “Anybody can challenge any article of any faith, it is absolutely fundamental, and there is no right to be immune from that.
“You know very well, because it’s the fundamental tenet of your job as a journalist to have freedom of speech.”
I primarily write about religion (particularly Evangelical Christianity) and politics — two subjects never spoken of in polite company. I know my writing offends some people, but that doesn’t mean I must stop doing so. The offended are free to respond in the comment section (as long as they abide by this site’s comment policy), send me an email or social media message, write a blog post or news article in response to my offensive writing, write a letter to the editor of the local newspaper decrying my writing, or any other constitutionally protected, legal action. The offended have numerous tools at their disposal to rebut my writing. They don’t, however, have any legal grounds to force me to remove something I have written from this site.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
