Today, I received a comment from a Christian man named Keith that stated, in part:
Thus, since so much crock comes out of the pulpit (and always has), you have to read the Bible for yourself. And, pray for yourself and your family. I do both.
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My hope is that one day you’ll be able to separate the religious crap you were taught (and taught yourself), from the core truth of Jesus (you might have to vomit some, my guess), and find your way back to Jesus Himself.
What is the core truth of Jesus? Where can we find this truth? The Bible, right? All we have is the Bible, a collection of sixty-six books written thousands of years ago primarily by unknown men. All we know, then, about Jesus comes from a fallible, internally contradictory, religious text written by fallible men. Why should I give this text any weight or authority? What value is the Bible and its teachings to me or my family? If I never read the Bible will my life be less in any way?
In his comment, Keith mentioned his blog, The Myth Machines: Truth Unshackled. I perused his blog, reading a dozen or so posts, hoping to understand him better. The best I can tell is that Keith is a disaffected Evangelical, a Black man who is disgusted by much of what he sees in churches today. I suspect he thinks that as a pastor I was just like the clerics he has problems with. It’s too bad Keith didn’t bother to read my autobiographical writing. (Please see Why?) He would have quickly learned that I am not the straw man he has constructed in his head.
Keith says I need to read the Bible for myself. Uh, that is exactly what I did for most of my adult life. As a pastor, I spent over 20,000 hours reading and studying the Bible. What does Keith think I missed? He doesn’t say. My core beliefs were Evangelical and orthodox in every way.
There is no Jesus for me to come back to. I deconverted because the central claims of Christianity no longer made sense to me (please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense). First, I believe the Christian deity is a myth. Second, I don’t think Jesus was divine, born of a virgin, did any of the miracles attributed to him, or resurrected from the dead. Jesus lived and died, end of story. Third, I reject the notion that there is life after death. Just like Jesus, we live and die, end of story.
Jesus is a ship that has sailed on a one-way trip, never to return. No amount of Bible reading is going to change my mind. I know what I know. No one can say that I didn’t do due diligence when it came to the claims of Christianity. I have weighed them in the balances and found them wanting.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
What follows is my response to your recent comment on this site. My response is indented and italicized.
Christian means Christ Like.
I assume you are an Evangelical Christian or what is commonly called a Biblical Christian. I assume you also believe that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God.
The word Christian is mentioned three times in the New Testament: Acts 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16, and Acts 11:26. The Greek word for Christian (s) is Christianos, which means a follower of Christ, not Christ-like, as you allege. A Christian, then, is one who follows Jesus, not one who is like him. If, as Evangelicals believe, Jesus is God, is it not impossible for any Christian to be Christ-like? Further, one need only observe how Christians behave to know that if Christ is the standard for saving faith, no one is a Christian.
We are all anything but that. To strive to be Christ like means to lay aside our own foolish pride. Set aside our own differences. We are alike in that we all want to go to the heaven we have all heard of.
Are you not being prideful when you say that you have something that I don’t have, that Christians are headed for Heaven, while Bruce Gerencser, atheists, agnostics, and other unbelievers are headed for Hell?
You assume that I want to go to Heaven. Why would I want to spend eternity in a place overrun with smug, arrogant, self-righteous people who spent their lives on Earth causing division and harm? You say we should set aside our differences, but you really mean that everyone should believe in Jesus as you do. The goal, is it not, is conversion, rather than understanding and mutual agreement?
Going against the word of God is like pushing the tides of the ocean; futile.
This is only true IF one believes the Bible is a supernatural book. I don’t. I once believed as you do. However, once the Bible lost its authority, power, and control over me, I was then free to determine what my beliefs really were and how I wanted to live my life.
We need to focus on the things at hand. I do not wish ill of any person, but neither am I likely to follow just anyone.
The problem, Matt, is that you think your life and experiences are the measures of what should be the “focus on the things at hand.” In your mind, Jesus is the end-all, all that matters. However, I am an atheist. Jesus is a man who died 2,000 years ago, end of story. I categorically reject the claims Christians and their Bible make for Jesus.
I daily struggle with serious health problems. I can safely say that I am dying, that sooner rather than later, I will be no more. It is certainly possible that I could live for years, but I doubt it. My body tells me that I am running out of time. Believing this to be true, I choose to focus on what matters to me: my wife of 42 years, my six grown children and their spouses, my thirteen grandchildren, writing, traveling, and watching/listening to the Cincinnati Reds. I have no time for God, Jesus, Christianity, the Bible, or God-botherers. The only reason I am answering your comment is that I hope my answer will be instructive or helpful to readers of this blog.
I believe in the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I believe that he died and was raised from death on the third day. Not only because of my faith but also logic. Romans had every chance to debunk this as they searched high and low for the man that miraculously disappeared. Pontius Pilate had every reason to find the man that he never could. The most powerful man in the region was in dire straights trying find Jesus after his death, but never could even at the amount of men at his disposal searching.
What evidence do you have for these claims? I have ready EVERY historical reference for Jesus, and not one of them mentions these things. The Romans didn’t have to look for Jesus. They knew exactly where he was — in a tomb. You have no direct historical evidence for the empty tomb. The gospels were written decades after the death of Jesus by unknown authors. At best, these authors wrote down oral stories that had been passed down. At worst, they made shit up. How do you know which is true?
You claim Jesus resurrected from the dead. You think Jesus’ empty tomb is proof that he resurrected from the dead. However, there are other explanations, one that is even mentioned in the Bible. Perhaps, Jesus’ followers removed his body from his tomb and buried it somewhere else. Or perhaps the Romans did. Are not both of these possibilities more likely than Jesus magically resurrecting from the dead? All the available evidence tells us that dead people stay dead. Claiming that a book says a dead man resurrected from the dead doesn’t work for me. You will have to provide better evidence if you want me to believe that Jesus is still alive. How about Jesus making a personal appearance — anywhere? It’s been 2,000 years since anyone has seen Jesus. I think we can safely assume that he is dead and he ain’t coming to the family picnic.
I do not try to hate nor do I try to condemn. it is not my place to say where each one will go at the end of his time. I can say though that Jesus dealt with love not with hate. He loved the prostitute as much as the disciple, and was seen cleaning the feet from the apostles. He was a servant not acting as a worldly king, but as a divine king of the most high.
Matt, please be honest. You are a “Bible-believer.” You believe the words of the Bible came straight from the mouth of God. Thus, you know exactly where I am going when I die, right? Don’t hem and haw, own your abhorrent theology. Quit trying to paint yourself in a good light. You think anyone who doesn’t believe as you do will go to Hell when they die; that they will face eternal punishment for their sins. If I told you I was going to torture my children every day of their lives, all because they believe differently from me, would you consider me a good father? Of course not. In fact, you would call law enforcement and report me for criminal behavior. Yet, your God daily tortures billions of people and plans to torture billions more after they die. Pray tell, what kind of Father is your God? Why would anyone want to worship such an abominable deity?
It is so easy being among others saying that you do not believe. However in the dark of night being alone, how confident are you of your own mortality?
Are you not in the majority — those who believe in the existence of God? It is easy to believe in God, especially in the United States. Nothing is required of you. Your faith costs you nothing except an hour or two on Sundays and the shekels you toss in the offering plate.
People gather at sites like this because they are part of a small, often marginalized community. Try walking in atheists’ shoes before suggesting that in the still of the night we believe differently from what we do in the day. Besides, even if what you say is true, do not Christians do the same? What do Christians ponder in the dark of night? Where’s God? Why is God silent? Why, why, why? Existential questions are part of the fabric of human existence.
We all contemplate those times when by ourselves we wonder what will happen. If you feel that going into the abyss of darkness at the end of your life then what are you living for? IF there is no rhyme or reason to life then what is the purpose?
I don’t wonder about what will happen. I am sixty-three years old. I am sick, broken down, and nearing the end of life. I know EXACTLY what awaits me: death and nothingness.
You seem to suggest that non-Christians should kill themselves because they have nothing to live for. In your mind, this life is just preparation for the life to come. Perhaps you should ask yourself what YOU are living for? A mansion in Heaven? Deliverance from sin? Separation from unbelievers? Day and night worship of God? Is this what your life has been reduced to?
I have much to live for: my beautiful wife, my wonderful children, my awesome grandchildren, finishing my train layout, planting new trees/bushes, traveling to new places, eating good food, watching the Reds and Bengals, writing for this blog, finishing my book, finally publishing my first podcast, and most of all, having bowel movements that are not constipation or diarrhea. Not throwing up would be nice, too, as would making it to the bathroom without embarrassing myself.
God wants to hear from you, and wants you not to rely on yourself but Him.
If God wants to hear from me, he knows where I live. He also has my email address and cellphone number.
Question? Why did you leave this comment? To quote Astreja, “If your god wants to hear from us, mortal, then it bloody well needs to come talk to us in person instead of sending human messenger boys like you.”
Remember that being a Christian is not going to be easy, nor is it going to be without sacrifice. We all give up something to gain something more. We have to keep moving forward and keep his commandments. Loving one another is the greatest of all commandments.
Have you read my story? If you have, you know I sacrificed everything for Jesus for most of my adult life. I now know that I sacrificed my life, marriage, children, economic well-being, and health for a lie. I have lived life on both sides of this discussion. I can tell you that I am happy with where I am today — pain and suffering aside. Why would I ever want to return to the garlic and leeks of Christianity? Why would I ever want to return to the chains of bondage? No thanks. You have nothing to offer me, Matt. I am not sure what you hoped to gain by leaving this comment, other than hearing yourself talk or putting a good word in for Jesus. What possibly could you say that I have not heard (or preached) countless times before? How did you fail to understand that people like me are not prospects for Heaven, that we have no interest in what you are peddling? Yet, you commented anyway.
We live by example, we show others the way to live and love not hate. Nobody in the Bible is without sin other than Jesus. Even when we stumble he is there to pick us up. We have only to ask. Knock and the door will be opened.
Ask yourself, Matt, what example have you left for the people who will read this post? What in your behavior emulates Jesus and makes Christianity appealing to unbelievers? Can you not see that your comment comes off as little more than an Evangelical Christian masturbating in public? Your comment might have made you feel good, but all it did for me and the readers of this blog — people who know the Bible inside out, many of whom were pastors, missionaries, evangelists, and fervent believers — is remind us that Evangelical Christians are narcissists who just love to hear themselves talk. Your comment comes off as a sermon, not an honest interaction with a former follower of Jesus.
Bruce, a sinner SAVED by Reason
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Recently, Evangelical writer Erik Manning interviewed Clay Jones, author of the book Immortal: How the Fear of Death Drives Us and What We Can Do About It. Jones, also an Evangelical, holds a doctor of ministry from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and is an associate professor in the Master of Arts in Christian Apologetics at Talbot School of Theology — the seminary wing of Biola University.
Jones had some interesting (and ignorant) things to say to about how unbelievers, particularly atheists, deal with death.
People are horrified by the prospect of their deaths but most of the time they won’t admit it to themselves! But when a woman finds a lump in her breast, or a man has a chest pain, or a person gets a positive back on a blood test, then the fear of death stands in front of them and won’t leave the room. What’s scaring people with COVID-19 is that suddenly the possibility of their death becomes very real and it reveals how much they really do fear death. Christians shouldn’t be surprised that non-Christians fear death because Hebrews 2:14-15 tells us Jesus died for us so “that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.” Let me emphasize this: the Bible tells us that “all their lives,” people are “held in slavery by their fear of death.”
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Because people are terrified by the fact of their deaths (even though for the most part they try to deny it and distract themselves from it), down deep they know they will die and they find ways to transcend the fact that they know they are going to die. Much of human behavior is driven by an attempt to evade death.
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In the book I go through the atheist attempts to feel good, or at least okay about death: “immortality would be boring” (that’s a big one), “live in the moment,” your individual existence is unreal (hard to believe but this was Einstein’s answer), and so on and on. They all fail and that’s why atheists have a higher suicide rate than those who believe there is a God. Here’s the last sentence of the last page of Duke University philosopher Alex Rosenberg’s book The Atheist’s Guide to Reality: Enjoying Life Without Illusions: “Take a Prozac or your favorite serotonin reuptake inhibitor, and keep taking them till they kick in.” So atheist Rosenberg’s presumably sober advice for dealing with death fears is “Get high!”
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People are living in denial and distraction (you can’t just deny something, you have to distract yourself from it) and that’s why we pay movie, singing, and sports stars more than we pay almost anyone in society—they do what we need most—they keep our minds occupied so we don’t have to think about our deaths. No one should be surprised that people are depressed, neurotic, and even psychotic because of the fear of death scares them. Of course, people are hooked on drugs, as I just said, Rosenberg’s advice to deal with death is to take drugs. Suicide is a symptom of the fear of death because it allows you to control that which controls you.
Jones’ view can be summed up thusly: non-Christians and atheists fear death, deny its existence, and do everything in their power to avoid it. Christians, on the other hand (see interview for what Jones says about Christians and death), accept the reality of death, are prepared to die, and live accordingly. While Jones admits some Christians fear death, he asserts that they do so because they have a “paltry, usually false view of heaven.” Jones adds, that another reason Christians fear death is that “it is so easy for Christian to be in love for this present world.”
Jones’s advice for Christians who fear death is that believers should “focus on eternal life” and remember that Christians “are never going to experience death.” Jones reminds believers:
In Jesus, we will live forever! That’s the Christian’s hope and the evidence for that is that Jesus was raised from the dead. So be encouraged, Christian, you are going to live forever!
I was part of the Christian church for fifty years. I pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five of those years. I pastored Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB), Southern Baptist, Sovereign Grace Baptist, Christian Union, and nondenominational congregations. I visited numerous dying congregants in the hospital and in their homes. I also did the same for unbelievers, hoping to evangelize them before they died. I have witnessed death up close, standing by bedsides as Christians and unbelievers alike drew their last breaths. These experiences had a powerful effect on me. Having lost my parents at ages forty-nine and fifty-four, I know the pain that one feels when loved ones die. Fifteen years ago, my wife’s sister was tragically killed in a motorcycle accident. We still, to this day, mourn the loss of Kathy. (Please see If One Soul Gets Saved, It’s Worth it All.)
What helped me, at the time, to minister to those who were dying and allowed me to personally endure the death of family members was the fact that I was a Christian; that I believed after death believers were “absent from the body and present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8).
When it comes to questions of life and death and whether there is human existence beyond the grave, religion is a panacea. People want to believe their lives have meaning and purpose, and that after death there awaits for them heavenly bliss and reunion with family and friends who, along with Toto, have gone to the great OZ in the sky.
Jones, as Evangelical apologists are wont to do, presupposes that his God, his belief system, and what the Bible says about life, death, and the afterlife are true. For those of us who reject his presuppositions, Jones says we are living in denial. In fact, it is Jones and other Evangelicals like him who are living in denial. The facts on the ground tell us that we live once, die, end of story. Jones provides no evidence for the existence of the afterlife except for what the Bible says about the death and resurrection of Jesus. THE BIBLE SAYS is all Jones has to offer on the subject. If and when Jones coughs up some actual evidence for his claims, I know more than a few atheists who will be glad to listen. Appealing to the Bible is not evidence. And until such evidence is provided, all Jones really has is faith: faith that the triune Christian God is the one true God, faith that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God, faith that everything the Bible says about life, death, and eternal life is true. I, for one, am not willing to set reason and skepticism aside and just faith-it.
That said, I recognize the power of the Christian myth. A religion need not be true for it to have value. Jones’ religion is a myth just like all the other religions he has deemed false. The battle between the various religions of the world is all about whose myth is true. Each warring party is certain that their mythology is true. Most people believe that their respective religion is the one true faith. In the United States, Christianity is the dominant myth. Evangelicals such as Jones say that all humans are vile, depraved sinners who deserve judgment and Hell. What an awful view of humanity. Of course, Evangelicals offer a remedy for human depravity: the death and resurrection of Jesus, the son of God. All sinners need to do is repent of their sin and put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ. Well, that and commit oneself to extravagantly worshiping the Christian God, attending (the right) church, reading the Bible, praying, tithing, and living according to the moral code taught in the Bible (as interpreted by Evangelical pastors). True Christians® will do all of these things, and if they do, they will be rewarded with eternal life in the sweet-by-and-by after death.
Millions and millions of Americans believe these things to be true. They are literally betting their lives on the hope and promise of a divine payoff after death. Atheism, of course, can’t compete with the power of the Christian mMillions and millions of Americans believe these things to be true. They are literally betting their lives on the hope and promise of a divine payoff after death. Atheism, of course, can’t compete with the power of the Christian myth. People want or need to believe that their lives have more meaning than the present. Atheists, on the other hand, can only say we have, to misquote a worn-out Evangelical cliché, one life, twill soon be past, and after that we are dead. I know, I know, cold and indifferent, but that’s the nature of reality.
Do all atheists, as Jones ignorantly asserts, fear death? I can’t speak for all atheists, but I can say, personally, that most of the time I don’t fear death. Polly and I were talking about this very thing today. Neither of us is in great health. I have pervasive health problems, and if I become infected with COVID-19, there’s a good chance that I will die. There’s also a good chance that I will die from a heart attack, complications of diabetes, or cancer. And there’s even a better chance that I will trip over a toy left on the floor by one of my grandchildren, fall, and die from a brain contusion or broken neck. The things that could kill me sometime beyond my next breath are legion. Shall I sit around and stew in my mortality? Of course not. All I can do is take care of myself the best I can. Some day, sooner and not later, that won’t be enough, and I will be dead. That’s just how it is. Why should I fear that which I cannot control?
I would argue that it is actually Evangelicals, who deep down in their little old heart of hearts, fear death. Why? Because they will live their whole lives hoping they have believed the right things and done the right things necessary to secure their rooms in God’s Trump Hotel in the Sky. (Please see Evangelicals Talk a Good Line When it Comes to Death, but Change Their Tune When They Are Dying.)
How can they know for sure? Doesn’t the Bible say that many “believers” will be deceived and end up in Hell; that Jesus will say them on judgment day, I never knew you (Matthew 7:22-23)? Isn’t that what critics say of me; that I was a fraud, a false prophet, a deceiver; that I never was a True Christian®; that I never was saved, born-again, bought by the blood, or regenerated? Most Evangelicals are either Calvinists or Arminians. The former believe that a Christian must endure (persevere) unto the end to be saved. No Calvinists can know for sure they are among the elect. And Arminians are not much different, belief-wise. Christians can fall from grace, Arminians say, and entrance into God’s eternal kingdom depends on personal holiness (without which no man shall see the Lord Hebrew 12:14, Romans 6:22, Ephesians 4:24). It should not be surprising, then, that many Evangelicals fear death, wondering if they have done all that is necessary to enter Heaven after death (which technically they don’t do until the general resurrection, but I will leave that subject until another day).
It is not unnatural for any of us — Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, pagans, atheists, agnostics — to fear what we have never experienced. Can I say with certainty that I will have no fear when it comes my time to die? Of course not. I hope that I will enter the darkness of night in the strength of my convictions; that I have run the race set before me (Hebrews 12:1) and now I am ready to die. Until that time comes, all I know to do is keep pressing forward towards the high mark and calling of reason and humanism (Philippians 3:14), living life to its fullest. Whether I die tonight, tomorrow, or ten years from now, it matters not. Each day is a new opportunity for me to love my family and do what I can to make a difference in the lives of others.
Let me conclude this post with answer I give to the question: If you had one piece of advice to give me, what would it be?
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Some day, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
And all the atheists said, Amen!
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. (John 12:25)
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Mark 8:36)
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (I John 2:15)
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)
For those of us raised in Evangelical churches, these verses are quite familiar. We likely heard countless sermons about loving God and hating the world. We likely heard our pastors and teachers tell us that if we love our lives, we will lose them, and if we hate our lives, we will save them.
The goal was to cause believers to fear losing their eternal reward; to change the focus of their lives from the present to the afterlife. While Evangelicals say that salvation is by grace, without works, the fact remains that True Believers® will live according to the teachings of the Bible as they are interpreted by their respective churches. A failure to do so puts one’s salvation at risk. So, despite all their talk about grace, Evangelical salvation is actually and effectually gained by works. Do THIS and thou shalt live. I can see outraged Evangelicals getting ready to fire me an email decrying my attack on salvation by grace. How dare I impugn the wonderful, matchless grace of Jesus! The problem with their outrage is that they really don’t believe salvation comes by and through the unmerited favor of God. Every Evangelical has a list of beliefs and practices that he believes are essential to being a Christian. If a person doesn’t check off all the boxes on the list, he isn’t a True Christian®.
Can a True Christian® love the world and love Jesus at the same time? Can a True Christian® love money and love Jesus at the same time? Can a True Christian® live in ways no different from his non-Christian neighbors and workmates? If the True Christian® is commanded to separate from the world and live his life according to the implicit and explicit teachings of the Bible, what does that say about every Christian you know?
If a True Christian® is commanded by Jesus himself to hate his life if he expects to inherit eternal life, it is fair to ask, will there be any Christians in Heaven?
As finite humans, we naturally love and enjoy this life. Atheists rightly understand that the only life any of us have is the present one. Evangelicals believe that life this side of the grave is temporary and transitory. This life is short. Life after death is eternal. This is why Evangelical preachers emphasize the afterlife in their sermons. What if there is no afterlife; no Heaven; no Hell? What if the only life believer and unbeliever alike have is the present?
If the Cornovirus Pandemic has taught us anything, it is this: life is short, death is certain, and today could be the last day of our lives. Despite KNOWING this, Evangelicals continue to breathlessly talk about the wonders of their Savior and the mansion in Heaven that awaits them after they die. And in doing so, they cheat themselves out of the wonders, pleasures, and joys of this life.
Jesus may have commanded True Christians® to hate their lives, but cursory observation of how Evangelicals live tells me that God’s chosen ones are no different from the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world. If this is so — and it is — I invite Evangelicals to join the party; to embrace the present and, without fear, guilt, or judgment, enjoy their lives. We know that the Coronavirus is no respecter of persons. Prayers to Jesus will not work when the virus knocks on the doors of our homes. Most people survive, but thousands and thousands of people will die, many of them Evangelical Christians. Surely, then, all of us would be better off living in the here and now instead of hoping that Jesus and his mighty band of mythical angels will rescue us. We can look at Jesus’ track record and see that he is not one to be johnny-on-the-spot when it comes to human suffering and affliction. Much like Baal in 1 Kings 18, Jesus is AWOL. No one has seen Jesus in 2,000 years. Isn’t it time for the coroner to rule that Jesus is dead? All we have is each other. Expecting deliverance from Heaven is delusional, a pipe dream that deserves relegation to the dustbin of human history. I beg you to not waste one more moment hoping that a divine payoff awaits you after death. The only payday is today. Time to cash today’s check and spend it. Hopefully, there will be another check to cash tomorrow. Let me leave readers with a bit of wisdom from the Bible:
Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth. (Proverbs 27:1)
Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. (James 4:14)
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Several months ago, an Evangelical man named Will contacted me on Facebook, saying he wanted to “understand” my story. I told Will to email me, and I would respond when I had time to do so. (I’m currently weeks behind in answering email.)
Will became impatient and contacted me again on Facebook. I told him I would get to his email soon. Evidently, he was clueless to the fact that my wife was off work for two months, in the hospital for almost three weeks, and had major abdominal surgery. Either that — as you shall read in a moment — or he didn’t care. My eternal destiny was at stake, fuck Polly’s temporary physical problems. The risk of me burning in Hell is of far greater importance to the Wills of the world than anything that might happen to me or my loved ones in this life.
Tonight, Will had enough of me ignoring him. So, he contacted me AGAIN on Facebook. What follows is our discussion. Enjoy!
Will: Bruce, your salvation is what’s important the most.
Bruce: I don’t need to be saved from anything except Christians who think they need to evangelize me! I am a kind, decent human being, with a wonderful wife, children, and grandchildren! I have everything I need!
What did you hope to accomplish by sending me this?
P.S. Now I know why you wanted me to email you! No thanks!
Will: I want you to re-examine your reasons for leaving the faith. I want you to return to the love that you abandoned, Christ.
Bruce: Dude, I did that — 2006-2008. End of story. I have zero interest in your God or religion. If you have read my writing, you KNOW this.
So, unless you want to talk football, we’re done here.
Will: I’ve read your writing, and I understand that you have left the faith. What I didn’t know is that leaving it has caused you to do a 180 in the area of kindness and reason, which are traits that can be consistent with both Christians and non-Christians. I will end this, I hope and pray that you will see the truth in your lifetime. Blessings.
Bruce: Let me see if I understand you: if I refuse your underhanded attempt to evangelize me, I’m unkind and lacking reason. Since I rebuffed your attempts to engage in a fruitless conversation about Jesus, salvation, etc., I’m the problem, right?
Or maybe, just maybe, you don’t respect me as a person, nor do you respect personal boundaries. If you have really read my writing, you know my story and where I am in life. You think that evangelizing me is the most important thing you can do for me; as if you can possibly tell me something I don’t know, haven’t preached, or heard countless times from Christian zealots.
If me telling you “no thanks” is being unkind, so be it. If me refusing to let you attempt to evangelize me is unreasonable, so be it.
Will, I have seen the “truth” in my lifetime, and that’s why I left Christianity and became an atheist.
Will: Bruce, any rational being should be open to a discussion of this magnitude, where their eternal residence hangs in the balance. If I can’t help you, maybe you can help me. What is truth?
Bruce: You didn’t “listen” to a word I said, Will. There’s no magnitude of anything. Unless you have evidence for the existence of heaven, hell, or life after death, there’s nothing of “eternal” nature to discuss.
Will: Bruce, we are past that. I only asked you one simple question. What is truth?
Bruce: Dude, we aren’t past anything. You think you have a fish on the hook, when in fact all you’ve snagged is a log.
And with that, I say “enough.” My steak has arrived [We were eating at Texas Roadhouse].
Will: You read like the people who you talked about in your article, rather than convert them, they converted you. ?
Bruce: Believe what you will.
Will: Now that’s truth and you know it!! Instead of the Preacher helping to convert the atheists, the table gets turned and the atheists convert the Preacher. Had to be a false preacher.
Bruce: Believe what you will.
Will: The facts are what I believe and you have demonstrated the facts by your actions.
Bruce: Believe what you will.
Will: You are running away from the truth.
Bruce: Believe what you will.
Will: I believe that there is still hope for you.
Bruce: Believe what you will.
Here’s the money quote: “The facts are what I believe.” Classic Evangelical arrogance. Will has the truth, and the sooner I accept that and prostrate myself before his peculiar version of Christianity, the better.
What think ye, dear readers? Did I show myself to be unkind and unreasonable?
About Bruce Gerencser
Bruce Gerencser, 62, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 41 years. He and his wife have six grown children and twelve grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist. For more information about Bruce, please read the About page.
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