Recently, an Evangelical (IFB?) man named Nate Beck stumbled upon this site and left the following comment:
I agree with some of the criticisms of the fat preacher Corle. However, I balk at the whole rejecting Christ reason for this website. I doubt people who claim they once believed in Christ ever truly believed in Him at all. It truly takes a real loser to reject Jesus Christ, in my opinion. Just sad.
In 2022, I wrote a post detailing my experiences with Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) evangelist Dennis Corle. Beck agreed with some of my criticism of Corle — calling him “fat.” Yes, Corle is obese — as are many Baptist preachers — but what his weight has to do with anything is unknown.
Beck takes issue with the “whole rejecting Christ reason for this website.” Hmm . . . is rejecting Jesus really the reason for this site? Is my goal to lead as many people as possible away from Christianity? The short answer is NO. Hardcore atheists often accuse me of being too friendly towards religion in general, and Christianity in particular. I have been accused of being a “secret Christian.” Hardcore Christian Fundamentalists, on the other hand, say that I never was a Christian; that I am lying about my past and my love and devotion for Jesus. Both parties refuse to let me speak for myself, building a strawman Bruce Gerencser, and burning him to the ground. Left standing, of course, is the real Bruce Gerencser — a man very different from the one who is portrayed by his critics. (I am open to and even encourage honest, thoughtful debate and criticism, but when atheist and Christian zealots alike refuse to accept my story at face value, I know that their presuppositions keep them from seeing me as I am.)
I am not an anti-theist, nor am I anti-Jesus. Anyone who reads my post Why I Hate Jesus knows I object to the Western Jesus; to the Evangelical Jesus; to the IFB Jesus; to the culture war Jesus. In my mind, Fundamentalism is the problem, and that is true in every arena of thought and life. While I do not think the central claims of Christianity are true and cannot be rationally sustained, I have no axe to grind with Christians, in general. My focus is on Evangelical Christianity and the harm it causes not only to our society, but to individual people — not only psychological harm, but physical harm too. I make no apology for desiring the death of Evangelical Christianity. Evangelicalism impedes social progress, harms families, and retards intellectual maturity. Think I am being too harsh? Millions of Americans — including people in political power — believe the Bible is inerrant and infallible; that the universe is 6,025 years old; that God created the world in six literal 24 hours a day; that every miracle recorded in the Bible is factually true. Is this not an example of impeded intellectual growth — be it from a lack of knowledge or because of Fundamentalist conditioning and indoctrination?
Beck says I am a real “loser.” Evidently, if you don’t believe in Beck’s peculiar version of Jesus and Christianity, you are a loser. That means that 7+ billion people on planet Earth are “losers.” Of course, those of us raised in Fundamentalist sects and churches know this thinking well. Only our little band of followers of Jesus are “True Christians.” All others are lost, doomed, and damned.
Beck’s answer to my story is that I never was a real Christian; that I spent the first fifty years of life living a lie; that when I share my story with others, I am lying. Of course, Beck has no evidence for his claim. Anyone who takes an honest look at my life will conclude that I was a committed, devoted, sold-out follower of Jesus. Not perfect, to be sure, but the bent of my life was towards holiness. Instead of taking my story at face value, Beck is forced to disparage me because he can’t square my life with his peculiar theology. That is his problem, not mine.
Why do so many Evangelicals have such a hard time accepting that some people once were saved and now they are lost; that some people, after carefully examining the claims of Christianity decided that they were false? Married couples divorce all the time. The reasons are many, but one reason often given is “irreconcilable differences.” Does that not best describe why many of us deconverted? We simply could no longer reconcile the differences between what we were told and taught and what we eventually learned was actually the truth. For me, the question is not the existence of God. I rarely engage in such debates. Quite frankly, I find them boring and uninteresting, if for no other reason than that such arguments cannot prove that the God of their arguments is the God of the Bible. I have yet to have someone argue successfully for the existence of a particular Christian deity — and there are many.
Beck “needs” Jesus, I don’t. I have all I need with my partner of almost 46 years, our six grown children and their significant others, our sixteen grandchildren, and our three cats — Joe Meower, Socks, and Petey. We are close to our family — never does a week go by when we don’t see some of them. My family is all I need. I find no value in worshipping a dead man. I do find value in some of his teachings, but I don’t worship the man. I find value in Marcus Aurelius’ writings too, but I don’t worship him. How silly would that be, right? The only God I worship is Polly. I have watched her work countless miracles with $25 for a week’s worth of groceries. I have watched her selflessly raise six children, never bitching or complaining about doing without. She is God, in my book.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Christian love is an amazing thing. It never ceases to show its actual truth.
Why do many Christians never understand that insults don’t bring in converts? 🤔
Can you send a link to your article on Corle of Revival Fires? I must have missed it a couple years ago. Thanks.
“a real loser. just sad.” Where have we heard that over and over again in recent years? Why can’t Christians just love people through and through and with their beliefs let the chips fall where they may? I guess their enculturation and indoctrination from countless hours of vitriolic “news” media is part of the problem. And the reaction by the likes of me to such can be just as unhelpful. I don’t ask any more if it’s Christian. Given the history of Christianity and Christendom, perish the thought. But I ask if it is human, if it is Jesus-like. I have at best mixed feelings if I know I’m in the company of Christians. There might be some real good, but it’s usually overshadowed with things spoken or unspoken like, “Israel is God’s chosen” (no antisemitic intentions here, which I repudiate. I am pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian and am in horror with what both Hamas did and how the US is now funding the killing of thousands and thousands of children and Gazans with bombs we pay for), or “Signs of the times. Jesus must be coming back very very soon.” Just a lot of stuff like that, along with all the rest, the things you mention so well, Bruce. And yes, you make me think. So many Christian clergymen have neglected their wives. That is a misreading of Jesus and the New Testament including Paul, to do that, yet for so many reasons I can understand why that’s possible. I’ve done something of the same myself, for a number of reasons, with a number of factors involved. Too easy for anyone to do, but maybe faith or religion is suspect if it gets in the way of genuinely loving those closest to us through and through. But back to the evangelical who wrote you. Just another example of people who are influenced by the culture in a way that is not in line with the faith they profess. I sometimes think that those are the only people that need to be converted, akin to the saying of Jesus in Matthew 25 about the sheep and the goats. But I take it that all of us need a conversion of some sorts, ongoing, too. Thanks again, Bruce for your honesty, for your clarity in writing, for making all your readers including me, to think.
I am reminded of the verse 1 John 2:19 (KJV)
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Isn’t this the Bible version of “no true Scotsman” argument? I mean, it’s in their own scriptures that anyone who leaves Christianity wasn’t really a True Christian (TM).
Honestly? If I were younger, I’d try to see behind Beck’s reasoning. But he is attacking you just to attack. He could have passed by his Google results that included your name, and figured it was pointless to stick his finger in a metaphorical wasp’s nest. But instead, he has to flail you over your supposed lack of EVER believing in Jesus. If he allows others to disagree and does not judge, then he is admitting that other beliefs are valid.
I believe I may have shared this story about another Christian cult, the Way. A friend who was in it and one of its offshoots, had a story for me. The leader of the offshoot sect died. Apparently, the Way taught them that you can stop sinning, and it is even possible to keep living forever. So her and another Way (offshoot) person were lamenting on how he wasn’t perfectly righteous, oh how sad. As a then Christian I got mad and said they were judging him. I don’t believe either one of them realized how they sounded. My friend explained they were commiserating. In retrospect, I think they felt relieved that even if their leader died, who was righteous, then it was going to be okay they weren’t perfect and instead died until the Second Coming.
I’m just glad that I no longer believe anything similarly complicated!
Dude said it all when he said one thing: “In my opinion …”
“Why do so many Evangelicals have such a hard time accepting that some people once were saved and now they are lost”
the reason is that it is much easier for them to say that you are a loser than it is for them to examine their own life, and discover all the ways that THEY are losers. 😉
Hey, it’s not everyday that I see one of our eternity symbols, the Khaas! Nice colors ! I wish there was a way to legally stop the Nazis from stealing this from us( Asian Russia/ Mongolia) anywhere on the planet, including America. And we’re looking into that once all this current craziness is over with.
I don’t care much about whether people believe, just as long as they don’t try to force that belief, or what they believe to be a manifestation of it (cf. the laws against women’s health care), on anyone else. The chief reason I don’t engage in “debates” about the existence of any deity, Christian or otherwise, is too often, the debate is not only about a particular deity, but a particular version of it–and who are “true” believers.
Also, as we see with Beck–and in much of current political debate–is that when someone can’t win an argument with evidence and logic, or even rhetorically, that person will resort to ad hominem attacks. Just as none of the Republican presidential aspirants has made an argument that can stand on its own merits–and have “scored points” only by attacking each other and groups of people who won’t vote for them–so Beck and his ilk cannot make a case for their belief to someone who just doesn’t see it they do. He and they can only disparage people by whatever means. And, it seems, in the world of Evangelical Christianity, the worst epithet is “you never were.”
When one’s identity and self-worth are linked to their worldview, a criticism of their beliefs feels like a personal attack. This is one (of many) fatal flaws of fundamentalism, as is the propensity for verbal attacks and insults in the process of responding.
It never ceases to amaze me how that Christians kneejerkedly assume that someone who spent time in the pulpit preaching and teaching the Bible must not only have been insincere in their efforts, but also completely misguided as to their faith which led them to the point of taking on that office, which they considered sacred at the time.
But having been there myself, I understand that questions without easy, canned answers are dangerous to a fundamentalist mindset, like pulling a loose thread.
I enjoyed the blurb near the end about worshiping your wife. I’m a proponent of saving worship for those who deserve it, and wives certainly qualify for that pedestal.
Nate Beck, if you know your Bible at all, then you also know that in the New Testament books, there are admonishments regarding leaving the faith as a believer – not an unbeliever! You DO know all this already,correct ?? Of course it’s possible for a believer/ follower of Jesus to walk away, if they decide to. Do an inductive study of that subject before commenting again .