Understanding Steven Anderson, Pastor Faithful Word Baptist Church, Tempe, Arizona

pastor steven anderson

Steven Anderson pastors an Faithful Word Baptist Church, an IFB church in Tempe, Arizona. The Anderson’s have added one more child since this photograph was taken.

Steven Anderson is the pastor of Faithful Word Baptist Church, an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church in Tempe, Arizona. Anderson’s bio states:

Pastor Steven Anderson was born and raised in Sacramento, CA. At age 18, he travelled throughout Germany and Eastern Europe for 3 months serving in local independent Baptist churches, studying foreign languages, and getting experience in the ministry. It was on this trip that he met his future wife, Zsuzsanna, while out soul-winning in the streets of Munich, Bavaria. He eventually lead her to the Lord, and they were married shortly thereafter. They have been married for over 13 years, and God has blessed them with 7 beautiful children.

Pastor Anderson started Faithful Word Baptist Church on December 25, 2005. He holds no college degree but has well over 140 chapters of the Bible memorized word-for-word, including approximately half of the New Testament. Today, most Baptist churches are started by Bible colleges. However, the Bible makes it clear that the church is the pillar and ground of the truth, not a school. Faithful Word Baptist Church is a totally independent Baptist church, and Pastor Anderson was sent out by a totally independent Baptist church to start it the old-fashioned way by knocking doors and winning souls to Christ.

God has blessed Faithful Word Baptist Church tremendously. Thousands have been saved, many have been baptized.

Faithful Word Baptist Church is a congregation of a hundred or so members, thirty of which are children They meet in a building located at 2741 W Southern Ave, Suite #14, Tempe, Arizona. As you can tell from this Google Earth graphic:

faithful word baptist church tempe

Faithful Word is located at a busy Tempe intersection. Their building is not some Jim Jones-like compound out in the boonies. They are right smack dab in the middle of Tempe, Arizona, a growing community of 168,000 people.

Anderson is well-known for his YouTube Videos. According to the church’s website, these 1,200 videos/mp3 sermons have been downloaded over 8,000,000 times.  Anderson has put together a video tour of Faithful Word and during the video he explains some of the things that are important to the church. As you will be able to see if you watch the nine minute video, Anderson, is a polite, soft-spoken man. He is a family man who loves Jesus, his wife, children, and Faithful Word Baptist Church.

Video Link

In the video, Anderson shares the things that make Faithful Word different from other churches. Thing like:

  • They only sing old hymns and spiritual songs
  • They only use the 1611 version of the King James Bible
  • They believe in preaching the whole Bible
  • They believe in preaching hard against sin
  • They have family integrated services, no age segregated classes
  • They have a nursery and mother’s room that are used to nurse infants and train children to sit in church (the sermon is piped in and a window allows mothers and children to see the preacher)
  • They  make Bibles, sermon CD’s and videos, available free of charge to anyone who wants them

Faithful Word has a Spanish class for members learning to speak Spanish. Since Arizona has a large Hispanic population, Anderson believes it is important for church members to speak Spanish. By learning Spanish they are better able to evangelize Hispanics.

According to Anderson, outside of the preaching the whole Bible, the most important thing is reaching Arizona with the true gospel. Faithful Word has what Anderson calls a Small Town Soulwinning Map. This map shows all small/rural communities in Arizona, places Anderson has targeted for a blitz-like evangelization effort. Church members spread out all over the the small community and knock on every door, witnessing to all who answer.

Anderson also mentioned the church’s effort to evangelize all of Phoenix. According to him, every day church members knock on doors, witnessing to all who answer. Their goal is to knock on the door of every home in Phoenix. Church members go neighborhood by neighborhood, marking off on a map those areas that have been evangelized. According to Anderson, thousands of people have been saved through the efforts of Faithful Word Baptist Church.

While most IFB pastors are pretribulational and premillennial, Anderson and Faithful Word are posttribulational and prewrath rapture. They believe Christians will go through most of tribulation, only to be raptured out just prior to God’s final judgment and wrath. This belief was made popular in the early 1990’s by Marv Rosenthal. The church offers a video they made, produced by Paul Wittenberger, titled After the Tribulation. They recently released another video titled New World Order: Bible Versions. According to Wittenberger’s  bio page:

Paul Wittenberger is a filmmaker, artist and activist, was born in Michigan but spent his early childhood in the West African nation of Liberia. After returning to the United States and completing his early education, Paul studied film at Full Sail University. His upbringing in West Africa gives Paul a unique perspective, which he brings to his art.

In early 2010 Paul teamed up with producer G. Edward Griffin to make a film that would bring the issue of geothermal engineering, or “chemtrails,” to the forefront. “What in the World are They Spraying?” opened in of October 2010 to great success and controversy. Paul’s second feature length documentary was released in 2012. “The Great Culling: Our Water” exposes how fluoride in our drinking water is neither safe nor effective. It is, in actuality, a toxic byproduct of the phosphate industry called hydrofluorosilic acid.

After “The Great Culling: Our Water,” Paul teamed up with Steven Anderson to Produce three back to back films, “After the Tribulation,” “The Book of Revelation,” and “New World Order Bible Versions.”

Paul currently resides in the Los Angeles, California, area where he continues to make documentaries and educate people on the New World Order deception.

After thoroughly investigating Steven Anderson and Faithful Word Baptist Church, I have concluded that they are a typical IFB pastor and church. There is nothing in their beliefs that can’t be found in other IFB and Evangelical churches. While their eschatology makes them an outlier, every other belief fits well within the IFB/Evangelical box.

What makes Anderson different is that he is willing to say in public what is said behind the closed doors of IFB/Evangelical churches, colleges, conferences, and preacher meetings. He’s not afraid to let the world know what he thinks and believes. As a result, Anderson and Faithful Word were labeled a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center for things Anderson said in a sixty-six minute sermon titled Why I Hate Barack Obama. Anderson had this to say:

Tonight, I want to preach this sermon. And you have probably never heard a sermon like this before. Actually, you probably have if you have been coming to church here for a while. But you know what? Here is my sermon, why I hate Barack Obama. That’s my sermon tonight, because Barack Obama is coming to town tomorrow morning.

Barack Obama is coming to town. And he is going to be here tomorrow morning. Who knew that he was coming to town? I didn’t know. I just found out recently with his health care and everything like this.

And I’m going to tell you something. I hate Barack Obama. You say, well, you just mean you don’t like what he stands for. No, I hate the person. Oh, you mean you just don’t like his policies. No, I hate him…

…You are going to tell me that I’m supposed to pray for the socialist devil, murderer, infanticide who wants to see young children and he wants to see babies killed through abortion and partial-birth (INAUDIBLE) everything? You are going to tell me I am supposed to pray for God to give him a good lunch tomorrow while he’s in Phoenix, Arizona?

No. I am not going to pray for his good. I am going to pray that he dies and goes to hell…

…What goes around comes around. You love violence. You hate that which is right. You love to harm others. You love to hurt or kill the unborn or the innocent or the righteous. He is saying, God is going to bring that upon your own head, because whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Now, turn back to Psalm 58 and let me ask you this question. Why should Barack Obama melt like a snail? Why should Barack Obama die like the untimely birth of a woman? Why should his children be fatherless and his wife a widow, as we read in this passage?

Well, I will tell you why. Because, since Barack Obama thinks it is OK to use a salty solution, right, to abort the unborn, because that’s how abortions are done, my friend, using salt — and I would like to see Barack Obama melt like a snail tonight…

Here’s what Anderson thinks of homosexuals (sodomites):

The same God who instituted the death penalty for murders is the same god who instituted the death penalty for rapists and for homosexuals, sodomites and queers! That’s what it was instituted for, okay? That’s God, he hasn’t changed. Oh, God doesn’t feel that way in the New Testament … God never “felt” anything about it, he commanded it and said they should be taken out and killed.

You know why God wanted the sodomites in the Old Testament to be killed? You know why every good king of Israel, the Bible says they got rid of the sodomites in the land? You know, the good kings that came after the bad kings who had allowed the sodomites to infest their land, they had infiltrated … King Asa got the sodomites out of the land, Jehoshaphat exterminated the sodomites that were left from the days of his father, Asa. Why? Because the sodomites are infectious, that’s why. Because they’re not reproducers, that goes without saying, they’re recruiters.

How are they multiplying? Do you not see that they’re multiplying? Are you that blind? Have you noticed that there’s more than there were last year and the year before, and the year before that? How are they multiplying? They’re reproducing right? No, here’s a biology lesson: they’re not reproducers, they’re recruiters! And you know who they’re after? Your children. Remember you dropped off your kids last week? That’s who they’re after. You drop them off at some daycare, you drop them off at some school somewhere, you don’t know where they’re at. I’ll tell you where they’re at: they’re being recruited by the sodomites. They’re being molested by the sodomites. I can tell you so many stories about people that I know being molested and recruited by the sodomites.

They recruit through rape. They recruit through molestation. They recruit through violation. They are infecting our society. They are spreading their disease. It’s not a physical disease, it’s a sin disease, it’s a wicked, filthy sin disease and it’s spreading on a rampage. Can’t you see that it’s spreading on a rampage? I mean, can you not see that? Can you not see that it’s just exploding in growth? Why? Because each sodomite recruits far more than one other sodomite because his whole life is about recruiting other sodomites, his whole life is about violating and hurting people and molesting ’em…

… I’m here to preach the Bible. And I’m sick to death — hey, let me tell you something. Our country is run by faggots. You know who wrote this 700-billion-dollar bailout bill? You know who was the man who was the architect of the bailout? His name is Barney Franks, he is a pedophile, he has been arrested for uh, interacting with boys that are in their teenage years when he’s in his 50s, it’s in the news, he’s been arrested for it. He is a pedophile, he is a homosexual, he has stood up in the floor of the sacred halls of justice and said,’I am gay, I am a sodomite.’

That’s Barney Frank, that’s who just sold our country into fascism. That’s who just sold our corporations to the government. That’s who sold out our country, a faggot! And I’m here to tell you something! I’m not going to stand for it, and let a faggot run the church! It’s bad enough that we’ve got a bunch of faggots running the government!

Here’s a video clip of a sermon preached in November 2014 where Anderson says the Bible gives the cure for AIDS:

Video Clip

For you who can’t stomach Anderson’s video, his cure for AIDS is quite simple: kill all of them. No need to spend billions of dollars on AIDS research. Just kill everyone who has AIDS and that will put an end to it. I assume Anderson believes that almost everyone who has AIDS is a homosexual.

Again, I have not read or heard anything from Pastor Steve Anderson and the Faithful Word Baptist Church that I have not heard countless times in IFB/Fundamentalist/Evangelical churches, colleges, conferences, and preacher meetings. Granted, Anderson lacks the smooth-talking, salesman skills of most preachers, but his beliefs can be found preached in thousands of churches. He may use coarse, inflammatory words, but the message is still the same: repent or go to hell. Anderson is no different from culture warriors who think abortion is murder, homosexuality is a sin, and President Obama, atheists, agnostics, humanists, Democrats, liberals, progressives, and socialists are the spawn of Satan.

As I mentioned in a recent post titled Hello Bruce, I’m A Nice Evangelical, no matter how the Evangelical smiles and is kind, decent, and polite, their believes are abhorrent. Millions of “nice” people think homosexuals are perverts. Millions of “nice” people think that atheists are child molesters and servants of Satan. Millions of “nice” people think abortion is murder. Millions of “nice” people think their unbelieving neighbors, friends, spouse, children, and grandchildren will go to hell when they die. Millions of “nice” people believe that God will fit unbelievers after they die with a body that can survive torture in a lake of fire for eternity. Millions of “nice” people think the United States is a Christian nation, that prayer and the ten commandments should be allowed in public schools, that the earth is 6,019 years old, that global warming is a hoax, and sex before marriage is a sin.

Knowing what I know about Evangelicals and their beliefs, I have concluded that Pastor Steven Anderson and Faithful Word Baptist Church are not in any way special. They may not play the nice game like downtown First Baptist Church, but their beliefs are similar. As I have stated many times before, strip the façade from people like Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church, Steven Anderson and Faithful Baptist Church, Bob Gray and Longview Baptist Temple, Jack Hyles and First Baptist Church, Peter Ruckman and Bible Baptist Church, Bob Jones University, Pensacola Christian College, Baptist Bible Fellowship, General Association of Regular Baptist Churches (GARBC), Independent Fundamental Churches of America (IFCA), John MacArthur, Al Mohler, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Franklin Graham, many Southern Baptist churches, and a plethora of Evangelical parachurch organizations, and you will find that they all have a shared belief. While they may disagree on orthopraxy, eschatology, soteriology, baptism, etc, the beliefs than bind them are far more than the beliefs that separate them.

While Pastor Steven Anderson is roundly criticized and ridiculed by Christian and non-Christian alike, his video and sermons have been downloaded 8,000,000 times. Even if most of the downloads were by people opposed to Anderson, I suspect that many of the downloads were by Christian preachers and church members who agree with him. Like it or not, the Steve Anderson’s of the world are many. And it is for this reason those of us who believe in reason, rationalism, skepticism, humanism, and science must continue pushing back against Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism. We dare not ignore preachers like  Steven Anderson and Ken Ham. They are like a brain cancer that eats away the parts of the brain that help us think and reason. No matter how nice they may be, it is their beliefs that cause untold heartache and damage.

Notes

You can view all of Anderson’s YouTube videos here and here. You can check out his sermon transcripts here.

You can read Anderson’s wife’s blog here. She lists several like-minded churches, Verity Baptist Church, Sacramento, California, Word of Truth Baptist Church, Prescott, Arizona and Steadfast Baptist Church, Fort Worth, Texas. As you will find out from her blog, Zsuzsanna Anderson has the same beliefs as her husband, a man she thinks is the greatest pastor in the world. You will also find that she is a loving mother who thinks she is doing what’s best for family.

Faithful Word Baptist Church had a record attendance of 172 last Sunday, April 5, 2015

faithful word baptist church attendance

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119 Comments

  1. Byroniac

    Ironically enough, back in my Calvinist days I would have dismissed this man’s entire ministry and worthiness of fellowship based upon his rejection of Calvinism, and would have doubted his salvation. Also, and this might be peculiar to me and a few others, I would have suspected idolatry in his exclusivity of Bible versions, not trusting God to provide faithful translators of other Bible versions and valuable commentary. But then again, I was never part of the IFB, so much of their thinking and ways appears strange to me. I was marginally SBC though ordained in it, then became Calvinist, and as time went on, I focused more on Calvinism and less on the SBC, even though I enjoyed reading material from the Founders, I did not feel the same sense of belonging to the SBC that they apparently felt. Now I can happily call it all bollocks and walk away from it. But I am forced to take it seriously, because people like this do have a voice and they are a bad influence on religion and culture (“the road to hell is paved with good intentions”). I am not ordinarily all that militant, but I would enjoy being militant and in this man’s face quite a bit.

    Reply
  2. khughes1963

    The one thing that Anderson doesn’t mention is the real reason he hates the President, and that is the President’s ancestry. I don’t doubt that Anderson says in public what the Religious Right says in private.

    Reply
    1. John Smith

      His ancestry? Hes more European then most white ppl in America. Claiming Obama to be black is the delusional dream of a racist.

      Reply
      1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

        You do know where Kenya is, right? Or do you think it is on the European continent? Of course the president was born in Hawaii so….

        Reply
        1. john smith

          His mom is from kenya? Ah, she’s albino. Got it.

          Reply
          1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

            Evidently, you’ve never made a milkshake. Go away now, you little racist.

          2. john smith

            Lol, the last resort of ignorance. Proclaim everything to be racist when you can’t face facts. I haven’t said one racist thing. But resorting to insults is pretty common. Keep perpetuating steriotypes

          3. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

            It’s your story, tell it any way you want, friend. But, saying President Obama is not black? Well, that is going to be viewed as delusional by most people who read this blog.

          4. john smith

            That doesn’t say alot about the readers of this blog.

          5. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

            But it does say a lot about you.

            Thanks for playing.

        2. larry anderson

          his mother was slut who was knocked up by a black communist from chicago. a kenyan student was married to give the child legitimacy and a month later kicked him out. when he was working for cia, he killed that fake father. so, he is the product of black chicago pimp and a white slut.

          Reply
          1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

            So is your name Larry or Larisa, since you both have the same IP address?

      2. Troy

        You have something of a point there. Obama is very much unlike the typical slave descendant black American. His white mother raised him in close proximity to his white, conservative grandparents. If his father had been a part of his life he was an immigrant. When Obama started dating he preferred white women, but was deterred by the intolerance of other family members. While he can “brother it up”, for the most part his dialect and speech do not have any trace of black American dialect making him much more paletable to the white majority. (You’ll recall Biden’s gaffe calling “Obama first “clean” African-American candidate … who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy”) Biden nailed it, though obviously he shouldn’t have compared him to other candidates and avoided a buzzword like “articulate” While Biden apologized to Obama, probably really only owed to Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson.

        Reply
      3. Rocco

        Spot on. This Bruce guy is an idiot. Everyone with a brain knows Obama’s mother is as white as the driven snow. And Frank Marshall Davis was his father — NOT some Kenyan exchange student named Obama. That’s just who his mother listed on the birth certificate. Davis and Soetoro raised him. If Obama’s a true “black” then I’m a member of the House of Windsor. Ha! Ha!! Ha!!!

        Reply
      4. rkb555

        John said ” Claiming Obama to be black is the delusional dream of a racist.”
        ——————-
        BS ! If u were to take a poll or survey with only 2 choices about the race of obama, black or white, 99% of the people would say black.

        Reply
    2. EssEm

      I am a longtime student of religon, of all kinds. I have watched many of Steven Anderson’s videos. One thing you cannot accuse him of is “racism.” On the contrary, he preached an entire (long!) sermon on the subject of inter-racial marriage, making the point over and over that the Bible provides no grounds at all for objecting to it. To him, the most important distinction among humans is between those who are saved by Christ and those who aren’t. He regularly makes clear that race is irrelevant. So if you want to address his hatred of Obama, you don’t have any grounds for suggesting that it’s his race.

      Reply
      1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

        I hope you will read the comments on this post from one of Anderson’s followers about Obama and race.

        Reply
      2. Barbara Jansen

        I have seen many of Pastor Steven’s sermons. He just reads out of the bible. He mentioned we should not get involved with endless genealogies. He is definitely not a racist. The racism is in the ear of the beholder. One can control what they say but have no control of how someone hears it.

        Reply
  3. Geoff

    Reading some of the transcripts you provide I’m reminded of Hitler, and his hate filled speeches inciting the population to violence against the Jews. He may be a little more outspoken than your typical pastor, who tries to pretend to be nice, but he stands for all that is wrong with the human race, all the things which reason have caused us to shun. His attack on the politician who headed up the bank bailouts (without which, like it or not, he’d probably now be on the street begging) for being a paedophile is a bit rich, coming from the sector that’s turned that into an art form.

    In the UK he’d possibly be prosecuted for incitement to hatred, and I suspect that he would be denied entry if his views were made known before he came. Whilst freedom of speech is all very laudable, it does have its limits. Europe learnt that the hard way.

    Reply
    1. khughes1963

      Excellent point, especially since Pastor Steven Anderson deceived several rabbis into participating in an anti-Semitic movie he made. Anderson selectively edited the videos of the rabbis to make them fit Anderson’s preconceived hate. Evidently Anderson and American political provocateur and liar James O’Keefe attended the same school on how to make deceptive movies.

      Reply
  4. Monty

    Guess he overlooked Romans 13:1, which states that ALL authority is ordained by god, which would mean that Obama’s placement in the White House was gods doing. Then again, Christians never want to blame god for anything bad, do they? Or Christians never want to truly follow the bible that they put some much emphasis on. Cherry picking at it’s finest!

    Reply
    1. Jess

      BINGO, Monte! Was about to puke all over my monitor after hearing this hate-mongering pathetic pervert Steven Anderson. Appreciate your comment about “cherry-picking which is all the God Damn Christians do. Thank you.

      Reply
    2. Gabby

      I agree with this scripture. It seems that he hates Obama because Anderson spirit that lives in him rejects Obama. Hate is a ugly word to say especially because the Lord show that he doesn’t hate the people of sin but hate the sin it self.

      Reply
  5. Angiep

    I feel so sorry for the children in this church. Seems they make up nearly half of their weekly attendance and they have no ability to decide otherwise. Then while being held prisoner in this place, they hear “sermons” about “salt-induced” abortions, “homos,” AIDS, executions, pedophiles, molestation…just horrible for impressionable, developing minds. Children are innocence and love personified…he takes that and wrecks it.

    Reply
  6. Lynn123

    Look at all those beautiful children, with their whole lives ahead of them-but their heads are filled with IFB stuff 24/7. They are soaking up the “us against the world” idea, learning to stick labels on other people, “saved” “lost” “sodomites” “murderers,” learning to say the sinner’s prayer, living surrounded by IFB people, learning to see people from most other churches as wrong about the Bible, etc.

    It’s kinda like a lovely family whose father heads a cult. Looking at the children-they have no power, they know no different, their environment is strictly controlled. It just makes me sad.

    There was one part that made me laugh, when he’s going along nicely telling the titles of the cd’s-here’s one on the family, here’s one on the sodomites, la-la-la-la-la. That cracked me up.

    Reply
  7. Jeff

    His views on repentance is a change of mind not turn from son and embraces easy believism and once saved always saved also I doubt if he is racist because he is completely fine with interracial marriage
    In my study of his works he never has attacked jack hyles but never mentions him either but attacked schaap . He can be funny also .
    Thanks for the post Bruce

    Reply
  8. Gina

    I’ve been listening to Pastor Anderson’s sermons for awhile now and I can tell you EVERYTHING he preaches is absolutely biblical. I agree with every word and think he is an awesome pastor. If I lived in Tempe this would be MY church because I love hearing the TRUTH. The bible is hate speech to those who hate the truth.

    Reply
    1. Tim Rollins

      Gina, did you even bother to read this entire article? This is from the last paragraph, “Like it or not, the Steve Anderson’s of the world are many. And it is for this reason those of us who believe in reason, rationalism, skepticism, humanism, and science must continue pushing back against Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism. We dare not ignore preachers like Steven Anderson and Ken Ham. They are like a brain cancer that eats away the parts of the brain that help us think and reason. No matter how nice they may be, it is their beliefs that cause untold heartache and damage.” “An awesome pastor?!?!” You and this “pastor” are the reason that reason is gone from any constructive, thoughtful conversation. Jesus’ love and compassion has been replaced by “Christians'” judgment and hate. I pity you, and this sorry excuse for a pastor, and will pray for you both.

      Reply
    2. Rayette

      I totally agree!! AMEN

      Reply
    3. Mario

      Ha! Truth? What truth? The Bible is a horrible work of fiction! You are so delusional.

      Reply
  9. jerry craft

    Same ole c__p from the same ole people who are of their father. It’s a waste of time to engage people who have been handed over to their own reprobate minds…….can you intelligently engage people who do not believe this wonderful life is totally meaningless and purposeless? I have a reason to engage…..what is yours?

    Reply
    1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

      It is OK to say shit on this site, Jerry. No God gonna git us if we uh say a bbbaaadd word.

      I am not sure who you are talking to. I don’t know of anyone who frequents this site that thinks “life is totally meaningless and purposeless.” I know I don’t. I have a beautiful wife, six wonderful kids, three great daughter-in-laws, ten awesome grand kids, two cats, and one dog. Life if good, even if I live with severe pain each and every day.

      Life matters to me because it is the only one I have. Once I am dead, it’s over. No payoff at the Casino in the sky. No waiting in line to get my rewards, only to toss them at Jesus’ feet because he is so awesome and worthy. This is it, and I intend to live each and every day to its fullest. I want to see my children grow old, my grandchildren go to college, and the Reds win the World Series. I want a better world for my progeny, don’t you?

      So Jerry, is your only reason for getting up in the morning is that you have to keep working in God’s coal mine in order to get a room at God’s Condo in the Sky? Are you one of those Christians who thinks that the only thing that keeps you from being a murderer and rapist is a relationship with a dead man named Jesus? It is you who will some day be sorely disappointed. As your draw your last breath, thinking that the angels of sweet baby Jesus are coming for you, you will realize, shit, this is it. Goodbye. Lights out. For me, life has its own purpose and meaning. No need for God, Jesus, the Bible, threats of hell, or promises of heaven. Come join me Jerry. Life is grand. Live a little, sin a lot, and save 10%

      Let me know when you want to have a REAL conversation. This is just me being snarky because I am in a good smart ass mood.

      Bruce Almighty

      Reply
      1. sgl

        *drops mike*

        Reply
      2. Suzanne

        *insert sound of drum flourish here while I point and say “Ha-Ha” in a Nelson Munce voice*

        Reply
      3. andrew battersby

        awesome post there, you should make that into a sermon!

        Reply
      4. Tary

        WOW………. love this. You rock!

        Reply
  10. John

    Ironically, in the video where he preaches death to Bruce Jenner, I noticed that he never actually opened the Bible. He never went to Seminary or any formal educational institute and since he claims to know so much about the Bible, it’s ironic to me that his attitude is one of arrogance when Jesus preached humility. Also, Jesus taught us to love. Jesus stated that if we only love the people who think like we do, then our love is nothing special. I cannot judge Mr Anderson’s heart, but I do not see anything Christian about him. Even Satan can quote Bible verses. His actions are full of hate and those very people he hates were created by the very God he preaches about.

    Reply
  11. Joe Arechavala

    Hearing your words about “perfect hate” for Jenner, I don’t recall, Rev. Anderson, ever seeing the words “except for” after “love thy neighbor.” Perhaps you should look in the mirror and ask yourself would Jesus say this?

    Reply
  12. Jess rogers

    With all due respect, fuck you, Anderson, and your God Damn “Church.” The most relevant thing is that you God Damn Hateful, Hayseed, Hillbilly Baptist Jerk-Off Baptists deserve each other….

    Reply
  13. Mary Kay

    I wish I could move to Tempe and study under Pastor Anderson. He believes the Bible is the word of God and refuses to compromise with this world of darkness. I venture to say that 99.999% of the people who hate Pastor Anderson HAVE NEVER READ THE BIBLE and are clueless to what it says. The Bible is clear, sodomy is a sin, an abomination before a holy God. If you don’t like it, complain to God. But instead you want to shoot the messenger. Where’s all this tolerance you claim to possess? You want Christians to be tolerant of homosexuals who have sex involving excrement adopting children and those who choose to mutilate their bodies as transvestites/trans-sexuals do, but believe it’s just fine to censor those who disagree with your world view. HYPOCRITES ALL!
    Remember this, some day you will die, as we must all, and in that day you WILL stand before your Creator. Without Jesus the Christ as your Lord and Savior you will be held accountable for your life choices. Then the Judge of Judges will judge in righteousness and you will forever suffer the consequences of your disobedient choices.
    “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him will not die but have eternal life.” John 3:16

    Reply
    1. Kaitlin

      HAHAAA! Thank you for reminding me and probably most of the readers of this blog why they are no longer christians. You sound like a very sad and delusional person indeed. Hopefully some day you wake up.

      Reply
    2. robert p

      Anderson is not a true ifb preacher, Christian or knowledgeable about the bible
      he is a dangerous cult.

      for those unfamiliar with pastor Steven anderson

      He was born out of the fringe movement of the independent fundamental baptists, but he is not really one but in name only.

      1: anderson hit many people’s radars when he preached on how real godly men will only pee standing up, and the problems we have in society is because men sit down to pee and won’t act like men.

      2: anderson is against all bible colleges and universities as being wicked and ungodly, and not bibical. He brags that neither he or the pastors he trains have been corrupted by attending any kind of formal bible schooling.

      3: he teaches that any male doctor who sees a female patient, especially gynecologist, are sick depraved scum .

      4: he even preached against the little house on the Prairie TV show because no one on the show went soul winning.

      5: anderson denouces any salvation message that mentions repentance as evil, a false gospel and anyone who preached that or got saved with repentance are lost and false teachers.

      That would mean that Jesus, Paul the apostles, the old testament prophets, David, are all lost and false teachers for they all preached repent and be saved.

      6: anderson is also anti police, he does not feel they are bibical, and for years would harass them every chance he got, film the encounters and post them,

      7: anderson is also very anti goverment, it is no surprise that him and Alex Jones get along so well.

      Anderson brags that he prays for Obamas death, and will rejoice when his wife becomes a widow.

      A member of his church even showed up at a Obama rally packing a gun.

      8. Anderson believes his king James Bible is literally God made Flesh.

      9 anderson denies Jesus Death on the cross as how Jesus paid our sin debt, anderson teaches that Jesus had to roast like a hot dog in hell to pay for our sins.

      10 anderson believes that all gay people can never be saved and all molest children with no exception, even those who left the lifestyle, became christians, got married with kids.
      Anderson teaches that they are still lost and are molesting their own kids.

      11: anderson is very anti jewish, calls them liars, denies the holocaust even happened, (Says jewish people are paid to lie about the holocaust.
      Anderson has even teamed up with texe marres, to produce a very anti jewish film,, and conned 3 rabbis to appear in it, one who was a survivor of the holocaust.
      Anderson thought it was funny that he was able to con them, and felt that they deserved it.

      12. Anderson believes women should never be allowed to work outside the home at all, and they are to have a man take care of them, no matter their age.
      Women are forbidden to speak during services.

      He is against women voting or anything equal rights for women.

      Irony, when he was aquitted for not complying at a checkpoint, it was a female judge that ruled in his favour, he had no problem with a women in authority then.

      Anderson denies the redemptive power of salvation, there is no doubt thru his preaching and life, neither he or his trained pastors have experienced true conversion

      he is no brother in the Lord.

      He does not represent any Baptist with his beliefs, he is against everything a true Christian would beleive, he is a extreme taliban like Christian cult.

      Reply
      1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

        Theologically, he is very much within the parameters of Independent Fundamentalist Baptist belief. He has not said or done anything that I have heard elsewhere in the IFB church movement.

        I love it when IFB adherents throw rocks at each other, each saying that they are the holders of the one true faith.

        Are you suggesting that the Jack Hyles, the Sword of the Lord, etal were/are a fringe element in the IFB church movement?

        Reply
        1. robert

          Toward the end of hyles ministry yes he was, he sadly had a cult following, that had many hyles fans promoting, and many churches denouncing.
          The sword went into fringe land after the death of John r rice.

          Anderson however denies the foundational truths of Christianity, his atonement occurred in hell, his beliefs that gay people can never be saved, that his bible is God made Flesh, pretty much puts him on his own field.
          We can discuss ifb, but anderson is no more ifb, than the Orlando shooter was a mainstream muslim, who represents all muslins.

          Today hyles, schaap, Bob gray, sword of the Lord are considered fringe, they have tried to change the definition of basic bible belief doctrines, into another meaning all together for the word fundamentalist.

          I don’t agree with the Muslim religion, but I would never say an extremist represents the beliefs and actions of all muslins. Neither does steve anderson represent anything Christian, both in practice and doctrine.

          Reply
          1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

            Let me say once again, Anderson’s beliefs fall squarely within the parameters of IFB belief. I get it, you want to distance yourself from the crazy uncles of your cult, but men such as Anderson were made by and through their immersion in IFB theology and practice.

            Outside of Anderson’s belief concerning repentance, his theology is no different from that of countless IFB churches. (And thousands of pastors/churches agree with Anderson on the repentance issue.) While his eschatology is a minority view, this is not sufficient ground for saying he isn’t IFB.

            Your biggest objection seems to be over Anderson’s asshole behavior. Again, such behavior can be found in EVERY IFB camp. Where did Anderson learn to be an asshole? Hint…three letters.

            I have been blogging for over eight years. Readers of this blog will tell you that the nastiest commenters are those affiliated with the IFB church movement. I have received scores of hateful, vicious emails from IFB preachers, their wives, and church members. Again, these commenters/letter writers come from every IFB camp.

            I will tell you what I have told other defenders of the IFB church movement….yes, small bits of edible food can be found in the IFB garbage can. But, why dig through all the rotting food to find that morsel when good food can be found elsewhere. I would never, ever recommend some attend an IFB church/college. Cultic behavior is the norm, and far too many people have been psychologically damaged by IFB teachings. In some instances, people have been physically harmed, leaving deep wounds and scars that can never be healed.

            Since you have repeated the same assertions in each of your comments, I assume you have nothing more to add to this discussion.

            Thanks for commenting.

          2. robert

            Bruce my comments about him were directed more to people like mary kay, who think he is a good preacher when he is nothing but a sheep in wolves clothing.

            Umbrella judging is never right, anderson is no crazy uncle, his beliefs go against everything one considers Christian.

            His very anti jewish views are as offensive as his views on gay people.

            It Is not a case of distancing on self from him, no bible believing church would even claim him.

            I am sorry I can’t convince you, but all you are doing by saying anderson is a typical run of the mill ifb preacher, is given him the credibility he so craves.
            The best way to defeat anderson and his trained preachers, is to put aside your bias against anything ifb , and acknowledge that most ifb preachers want to slap anderson mouth shut as much as everyone else does.

            He offends everyone but the Alex Jones knuckleheads, who have adopted him.
            Conning a holocaust survivor to appear in a very anti jewish film, as about as low as a human can go, but anderson finds ways to go even lower.
            Even if you don’t agree with me about anderson, I hope those who might be swayed by him, will read my post here about his true in bibical beliefs, and avoid him like the plague.

          3. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

            I have no bias about the IFB, Robert. You are still in the movement, so I suggest you might want to look closer to home for bias.

            I am an atheist who spends a significant amount of time each week reading Evangelical (the IFB church movement is Evangelical) blogs, news sites, and listening to sermons videos. My goal is to expose and critique Evangelical belief and practice. That IFB adherents get upset over my writing means that I am am doing my job.

            Let me be clear, Steven Anderson is a vile man, but preachers such as him are not uncommon in the IFB church movement. They might use nicer words or only reveal their bigotry and hatred in the safety of their colleagues, but preachers with similar views are hardly rare. Have you heard sermons against homosexuality, same-sex marriage, Transgenderism, atheism, and a hot of other “sins” that vex the minds of God’ s chosen ones? I suspect you have.

      2. J.D. Matthews

        Ladies and gentlemen, I give you “No True Scotsman”.

        Reply
  14. Mary Kay

    I wish I could move to Tempe and study under Pastor Anderson. He believes the Bible is the word of God and refuses to compromise with this world of darkness. I venture to say that 99.999% of the people who hate Pastor Anderson HAVE NEVER READ THE BIBLE and are clueless to what it says. The Bible is clear, sodomy is a sin, an abomination before a holy God. If you don’t like it, complain to God. But instead you want to shoot the messenger. Where’s all this tolerance you claim to possess? You want Christians to be tolerant of homosexuals who have sex involving excrement adopting children and those who choose to mutilate their bodies as transvestites/trans-sexuals do, but believe it’s just fine to censor those who disagree with your world view. HYPOCRITES ALL!
    Remember this, some day you will die, as we must all, and in that day you WILL stand before your Creator. Without Jesus the Christ as your Lord and Savior you will be held accountable for your life choices. Then the Judge of Judges will judge in righteousness and you will forever suffer the consequences of your disobedient choices.

    I see you censor, no surprise there. Typical atheist. Afraid of opposition. I see that these rules don’t apply to those who hold your world view. You’re a hypocrite. Pathetic.

    The following type of comments will not be approved:

    Preachy/sermonizing comment
    Bible verse quoting comment
    Evangelizing comment
    I am praying for you comment
    You are going to hell comment
    You never were saved comment
    You never were a Christian comment
    Any comment that is a personal attack
    Any comment that is not on point with what the post is about
    Any comment that denigrates abuse victims

    Reply
  15. Zoe

    Mary Kay admonished: ” […] Remember this, some day you will die, as we must all, and in that day you WILL stand before your Creator. […]”

    Zoe responds: So will you.

    Reply
  16. Michael Mock

    “I venture to say that 99.999% of the people who hate Pastor Anderson HAVE NEVER READ THE BIBLE and are clueless to what it says.”

    I venture to say that you are currently addressing the other 0.001%, as most of the readership here is extremely well acquainted with what the Bible says.

    And frankly, the moment you assert that “the Bible is clear!” is precisely the moment that I realize that you’re clearly unacquainted with centuries of Biblical scholarship, and have no idea of why Christians have needed to engage in Biblical scholarship for centuries.

    Reply
    1. Mary Kay

      MK said, “I venture to say that 99.999% of the people who hate Pastor Anderson HAVE NEVER READ THE BIBLE and are clueless to what it says.”
      I venture to say that you are currently addressing the other 0.001%, as most of the readership here is extremely well acquainted with what the Bible says.
      MK: I said nothing about being “well acquainted” with the Bible. Who says they’re well acquainted with a book? You’ve either read it or you haven’t. I said 99.999% of people who hate Pastor Anderson have never read the BIble. If I read a chapter here, a few verses there of Harry Potter do you think I would have a clue to the intent and meaning of the author’s words? And yet this is what atheists do. I will also add that I have spoken via the Internet with many hundreds of atheists and I would say perhaps ten have actually read the entire Bible, starting in Genesis and ending in Revelation. Most lie saying they have but then when I ask a specific question which proves if they read it they fail and then when caught run away.

      MM: And frankly, the moment you assert that “the Bible is clear!” is precisely the moment that I realize that you’re clearly unacquainted with centuries of Biblical scholarship, and have no idea of why Christians have needed to engage in Biblical scholarship for centuries.
      MK: Wow! What a stupid remark. First of all, I’ve been reading it for 35 years. Secondly, I said the Bible is clear on homosexuality because it is clear.
      Leviticus 20:13, “” ‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.” PRETTY CLEAR. Or are you finding it hard to comprehend?
      How about this one? Can you comprehend this one? Leviticus 18:22 – Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

      Jude 1:7 – “Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”

      ROMANS 1:26-31, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
      28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, [v]haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.”
      UNCLEAR?

      Reply
      1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

        Well ask away, Mary Kay. You will find I’ve read the Bible a bit.

        Reply
        1. Mary Kay

          A bit? That’s not reading the entire Bible.

          Reply
          1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

            My bit is bigger than your bit. So, ask away or go away.

      2. Michael Mock

        Meh. Color me underwhelmed, but if your requirement is “I have looked at every single word in this large and varied collection of books”, well… First, that seems oddly arbitrary, since parts of it — and I’m looking at the Begats, here — really are a waste of time, and second, reading the words neither guarantees understanding nor confers awareness of the historical context and original language.

        And you didn’t specify “haven’t read the entire Bible cover to cover, every word of it, in sequence.” You merely said, “HAVE NEVER READ THE BIBLE”. In addition to being a bit shouty, that’s self-evidently false.[1] When I pointed out that in fact, most people here have read the Bible, you responded that it doesn’t count if they haven’t read every single word of the entire collection, in order. There’s a term for that: it’s called moving the goalposts. Which is pretty dodgy behavior for someone who throws around words like “hypocrite” and “pathetic” as immediately as you do.

        As for homosexuality and the Bible, yes: Leviticus refers to a man lying with a woman as an “abomination” — the sort of language reserved for the worst and most offensive of sins, like eating shellfish or getting a tattoo. But is that a reference to homosexuality as we understand it today? Or to participating in certain pagan rites that were occurring at the time it was written. And those lines about Sodom and Gomorrah in Jude are pretty unequivocal, too — so how do you square them with Ezekiel 16:49? It’s equally clear and unequivocal, but it gives a completely different reason for the destruction of the cities of the plains. Romans, like Leviticus, is addressed to a fairly specific audience and was addressing fairly specific contemporary issues. But, hey, if you want to read it as if it were a line from some college’s Code of Conduct instead, you go right ahead.

        More to the point, reading those passages the way you do, and insisting that they mean what you think they mean, does actual, measurable harm to real people in the real world. It destroys families, makes outcasts of children, causes deaths and suicides. It’s a view that actively, and sometimes even gleefully, hurts people. And that means that your reading of Leviticus, and Jude, and Romans, is in direct conflict with Matthew 22:39, and by extension probably with Matthew 22:37 as well. The Bible is pretty clear — Jesus is pretty clear — that those lines are a sort of Litmus test. “On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

        The Bible isn’t a single book, Mary Kay. It’s a collection of books and other writings, in a variety of formats, on a variety of topics, in response to a variety of circumstances. Some books of the Bible are direct responses to other books of the Bible. It isn’t meant to be read as a rulebook or an instruction manual. In many cases it offers a variety of perspectives, and those perspectives don’t always agree with each other. I’m not even talking about the kind of inconsistencies and contradictions that atheists like to play “Gotcha!” with. I’m just saying that the books of the Bible are a rich and varied collection, with a lot of interplay between them.

        That’s why I laugh whenever someone says, “The Bible is clear.” That’s why your claim of having read it from first word to last, or having read it for thirty-five years, doesn’t particularly impress me. The Bible isn’t something you read for guidance, like the instruction manual for a new car. It’s designed to be puzzled over and struggled with. Even if you assume that it’s divinely inspired, God-breathed, or the direct Word as transcribed flawlessly by humans, it still isn’t a one-size-fits-all answer, because nothing relating to people is ever a one-size-fits-all answer.

        [1] Most atheists have read the Bible, albeit not to your high standards of completeness. In fact, a good many atheists are better-acquainted[2] with the Bible than many Christians.

        [2] You seem to have trouble with this word. Since I can’t tell if you don’t understand me, or if you’re just deliberately being difficult, I’m going to suggest that if you don’t understand how someone can be “acquainted with” a book, you substitute an alternate phrase: “know more about the actual contents of”. That should help to clear things up.

        Reply
        1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

          If she is coming from the Anderson School of Biblical Knowledge, all one needs is a King James Bible, a dictionary (1828 Webster?), and a concordance (Strong’s?). Anderson prides himself in knowing the English KJV well. and from a literalist’s perspective, he does.

          One Sunday night, a first time visitor and I got into a friendly discussion after church. When I suggested several books he might find helpful, he told me he didn’t read any books but the Bible. This way, he was getting the “pure” Word of God. *sigh*

          However, as your comment shows, the Bible is anything but a simple book. I am sure Mary Kay thinks her interpretation, based on reading the Bible for decades, is the correct one. But what about my interpretation? I have read the KJV from cover to cover numerous times, starting when I was a teenager all the way to age 50. If my interpretation is different, how do we determine which one is right? Perhaps Steven Anderson is the final arbiter?

          Even as an atheist, I recognize the Bible has moral/ethical value and its stories can be used to teach important truths. But I can say the same thing about a number of religious and non-religious texts.

          Reply
        2. Mary Kay

          MM: Meh. Color me underwhelmed, but if your requirement is “I have looked at every single word in this large and varied collection of books”, well… First, that seems oddly arbitrary, since parts of it — and I’m looking at the Begats, here — really are a waste of time, and second, reading the words neither guarantees understanding nor confers awareness of the historical context and original language. And you didn’t specify “haven’t read the entire Bible cover to cover, every word of it, in sequence.” You merely said, “HAVE NEVER READ THE BIBLE”. In addition to being a bit shouty, that’s self-evidently false.
          When I pointed out that in fact, most people here have read the Bible,
          MK: That’s a lie, you said, “”I venture to say that you are currently addressing the other 0.001%, as most of the readership here is extremely well acquainted with what the Bible says.” Nothing about having read the Bible.

          MM: “…you responded that it doesn’t count if they haven’t read every single word of the entire collection, in order.”

          MK: This will be my last comment to you since you’re a liar. I NEVER said “…it doesn’t count if they haven’t read every single word of the entire collection, in order. ” Or anything about reading every single word. Newsflash, anyone can go back and see you’re lying. You’re not a very smart liar. Do you not understand “have never read the Bible?” You’ve either read it or you haven’t. Pretty simple.

          MM: As for homosexuality and the Bible, yes: Leviticus refers to a man lying with a woman as an “abomination” — the sort of language reserved for the worst and most offensive of sins, like eating shellfish or getting a tattoo. But is that a reference to homosexuality as we understand it today? Or to participating in certain pagan rites that were occurring at the time it was written. And those lines about Sodom and Gomorrah in Jude are pretty unequivocal, too — so how do you square them with Ezekiel 16:49? It’s equally clear and unequivocal, but it gives a completely different reason for the destruction of the cities of the plains. Romans, like Leviticus, is addressed to a fairly specific audience and was addressing fairly specific contemporary issues. But, hey, if you want to read it as if it were a line from some college’s Code of Conduct instead, you go right ahead.

          MK: You said, ” As for homosexuality and the Bible, yes: Leviticus refers to a man lying with a woman as an “abomination”
          No, it says a man lying with a man is an abomination.
          Those scriptures are crystal clear, homosexual sex is a sin and an abomination. None of the scriptures I provided said anything about pagan rites. You’re making stuff up, um,….lying.
          MM: Most atheists have read the Bible, albeit not to your high standards of completeness.
          MK: Silliness. Most atheists have read verses in the Bible. You need to learn what it means to have read a book.

          Reply
          1. Michael Mock

            Yes, I think you’re probably better off not casting your, um, “pearls” before such swine as tarry here.[1]

            “That’s a lie, you said, ‘I venture to say that you are currently addressing the other 0.001%, as most of the readership here is extremely well acquainted with what the Bible says.'”

            Again, I can’t tell if you’re deliberately being difficult or if you really don’t understand. Here in America, most atheists have read the Bible — and I’m using that phrase in the same sense that most Christians have “read the Bible” — in part because a high percentage of American atheists are ex-Christians, and in part because we keep running into Christians[2] who insist that the Bible is absolutely authoritative and that we have to deal with either some particular passage, or with the whole thing.

            However, if you’re going to insist — disingenuously, it seems to me — that “read the Bible” means “read the entire Bible, cover to cover, from the first word to the last”[3] then, I suspect you’re right: most atheists haven’t bothered, for the same general reasons that most Christians haven’t bothered. And, as I noted earlier, that seems not only unnecessary but potentially very misguided to me.

            However, I stand by my basic view: in the sense that most people mean when they say they have “read the Bible”, most atheists have “read the Bible” at least here in North America. Again, many of us were raised as Christians.[4]

            So, yes, you’re technically correct in saying that I never said anything about reading the Bible. You are also, accidentally or deliberately, missing the point of what I did say. Are you truly unaware of the existence of irony, subtext, hyperbole, exaggeration, humor, sarcasm, and all the myriad other ways that language can say things that it doesn’t literally mean? Or are you unable to recognize them? Neither one speaks well for your ability to extract meaning from a set of books as complex as the Bible.

            “No, it says a man lying with a man is an abomination.”

            Quite right, that was a typo on my part. And, again, while you’re technically correct, you’re either completely missing or deliberately overlooking what I was trying to say, which really wasn’t that hard to figure out.

            “Those scriptures are crystal clear, homosexual sex is a sin and an abomination. None of the scriptures I provided said anything about pagan rites. You’re making stuff up, um,….lying.”

            No, I’m pointing out that those scriptures had a historical context. Hence the need for Biblical scholarship, which I’m guessing you reject in favor of your illiterate, “literal” reading of the Bible. Have you ever read Shakespeare? There’s a reason those plays include footnotes.[6] Without some background about how they were written and what they were referring to, a lot of the material just doesn’t make sense. And that’s only a matter of 400 years or so; the Bible is far older, and its writers were rooted in far more alien cultures, than that.

            “Silliness. Most atheists have read verses in the Bible. You need to learn what it means to have read a book.”

            I’m confused. Are you saying that it only counts as having “read” the Bible if you go through the entire thing, or not? I ask because you just insisted, in the comment that I’m responding to, that “… You’re a liar. I NEVER said ‘…it doesn’t count if they haven’t read every single word of the entire collection, in order. ‘” And yet, that seems to be exactly the point that you’re trying to make here.

            So here you are, once again, technically correct and completely missing the point. I didn’t quote you exactly. I paraphrased. People — and I’m talking about people, here — people do that. In conversation. Often to find out if they’ve correctly understood what another person is trying to say. So, if I’ve misrepresented what you were trying to say, could you clarify?

            And if I haven’t, then you need to back off from calling me a liar. One of us isn’t being honest here, but I don’t think it’s me.

            [1] This is irony. I actually do think your comments are wasted here, but I also think that the reasons for that are far, far different from what I suspect you think the reasons for that are. I also don’t think your pearls actually are of great price.

            [2] Like yourself.

            [3] Which, again, isn’t how most Christians read it, insofar as they read it all.

            [4] No, not real Christians, of course not; if we were real Christians, we would never have left the faith. That’s how it works, right?[5]

            [5] Yes, that was irony too.

            [6] I may be a little too fond of footnotes.

          2. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

            I think there are actually a lot of atheists, especially those from an Evangelical background, that have read the Bible from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. Hell, I’ve even read the dedication to the KJV Bible. 🙂 In the churches I pastored, I encouraged people to read through the Bible every year or two. Some did, most didn’t. I did. I suspect I have read through the Bible devotionally a dozen or more times. This doesn’t include time spent most days of the week reading and studying the Bible in preparation for sermons, classes, and special meetings. I have literally spent thousands of hours reading and studying the Bible.

            The Bible is the most revered, least read book ever written. I consider it to be the best tool for debunking the claims of Christianity. Nothing better than to hear a Christian say, did you know the Bible says ______________? Yes….I do 🙂 Knowledge and reason are a sure cure for fundamentalism.

          3. barb

            I have to say,I like the way you think. Even tho I am 1 of those Christians that most people commenting seem to hate.:/ I hate that all Christians have gotten such a bad name bc of crazies like this pastor. He is seriously up there with the likes of waco. I was lucky enough in my early years of Christianity to have a pastor that taught us to think. He taught us about the difference between historical fact and what to use in our own lives. That a lot of those letters were written to address the traditions of the times. Ie; men were to have short hair and woman long bc the man is suppose to hear from God. That’s just ridiculous. What Christians forget is that the old testament is used to prove that Jesus is who he is. That he was prophesied and to help us understand what life would be like without him. The new testament is for our lives now. Love and above all else love. No sin is greater than the next. So if you believe that homosexuality is a sin then what about your pride? That we keep so very hidden. Our job is to love and let God work out what he feels he needs to work out. It’s not my job to judge the heart. And it’s bc of Christians like this ( and sorry but you too Mk) who yell out on their pulpits that get the attention and gives us quiet christians who are just going about our day a bad name. I apologize on behalf of all “Christians” who have made you feel so horrible about us and God.
            And fyi christian music comes in all forms from old timey hymns to heavy metal to rap. So do what you do and live life.

      3. Kaitlin

        What makes you think any sane and decent person cares what some book written by a bunch of middle eastern dudes 2,000 years ago (which has also been manipulated by the church countless times over countless centuries) is “clear” and “unclear” about? If you want to live your life based on a book like that, that’s your funeral. Stop trying to inflict your misery on everyone else.

        Reply
  17. Mary Kay

    BG said, ” In the churches I pastored,…”
    MK: Question: So as a pastor were you a liar? If you were a liar then, how do we know you’re not a liar now?

    Reply
    1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

      I didn’t lie then and I don’t lie now. You can accept my story and words at face value or not. Your choice.

      Reply
    2. Charles

      Why are you so angry Mary Kay? Jesus was a radical Jew who came to start a revolution. It seems pretty clear to me that you have bought into the plastic pink flamingo Jesus of the Religious Right. Take these three Jesus hymns and call me in the morning if you are not feeling better about Jesus:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT_nvWreIhg

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrXIQQ8PeRs

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JCLY0Rlx6Q

      Reply
  18. Charles

    Mary Kay. You are welcome to come over and raise some Hell on my blog if you like. Just click on:

    https://faith17983.wordpress.com/

    Reply
  19. Jred

    Jesus said to love all as one would love themselves. I guess this “Christian” pastor forgot that part. Anyone who spews hate and evokes the name of Jesus, does so in vain and for their own gain. Shame on those that believe the vile nonsense that spews from this man’s disgusting mouth. Stop cherry picking verses that meet your standards and remember what Jesus said. He said to follow what he said and the laws of Moses. Leave Leviticus out of your believe system as it as a hoo k, has more to do with the laws of early Jews and not what Jesus wanted for us. Jesus was a man of love, empathy and tolerance…. stop hijacking jesus!

    Reply
  20. Daniel parker

    You know you probably shouldn’t comment on things you know nothing about the Eagles of Death Metal are NOT a death metal band if you have ever heard of them you would know that second it’s not ok to call people faggots simple because they listen to heavy music that is just your opinion which is not expressed in any bible third you better hope I don’t ever see you or that family of your because I listen to death metal and there’s no telling what I might do to some Christian ***** oh and God bless or whatever BITCH!!!!!! *****************

    Comment edited by Bruce

    Reply
  21. Brian

    Cheese whiz, Daniel, you seem angry. Did religion get you or, no, it was before religion, wasn’t it…. Religion just buttered their toast. Do you really want to hurt somebody to feel better? Like actually?

    Reply
  22. Myths

    Double standards in stupid America, muslims arent allowed to speech hate yet the inbred christians get away with it.

    Reply
  23. MisterFatty

    The King James version of the Bible, eh? Doesn’t Pastor Anderson know that the king who commissioned this version of the Bible, King James I of England (James VII of Scotland), in 1611 was a notorious faggot who used to surround himself at court with beautiful young men such as the Duke of Buckingham who apparently had nice legs? James also hated Puritan dissenters so if Anderson had been around at the time he would have been penalized.

    Incidentally, which Bible are non-English-speaking believers supposed to refer to? They can hardly use the Authorized Version, but being foreigners perhaps they are automatically damned anyway. That would have left the Twelve Apostles in deep Schtum.

    Reply
  24. chris

    I just want to ask pastor anderson if he preachers faith as a liscence to sin? Because Paul clearly says its not??

    Reply
    1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

      Steven Anderson has no connection to this website. Anderson likely is praying for God to kill me. So far, his prayers have been ineffectual.

      Reply
  25. John Arthur

    Hi Bruce,

    It is not the so-called “Sodomite” who is an abomination, but this Pastor Anderson who wants the death penalty applied to them. Where is there any compassion for them? He wants that subset of homosexuals with aids to be executed. if fact, he wants anyone with aids executed, so presumably those heterosexuals who have aids.

    He follows the abominable god of much of the OT and some parts of the NT. He follows the violent god, the god of retribution and punishment. He follows the god who so hated the world that he tortures them forever in a place called hell.

    The members of his church should dismiss him or cease going. His church needs to be emptied and the people who are subject to this terrible view of god (biblical though it might be) need to be released from the fear and horror it creates.

    It is compassion, healing mercy and loving-kindness that ennobles and frees the human spirit and brings release from a god of terror, fear and vengeance . The pastors, like Anderson, use their abominable theology and their immoral interpretation of the text to justify their iron rule and to keep people in religious bondage. Anderson’s view of God is more like the devil than like the character of the human Jesus. But the devil is a mythical figure and so is Anderson’e god.

    Shalom,

    John Arthur

    Reply
  26. Robert p

    You are very mistaken about Steve Anderson bieng just like every other independent fundamental church, that is far from true.

    Anderson is a unbiblical cult, he is a very dangerous anarchists who believes that the police and our government are unbiblical
    He is very anti Jewish, a total holocaust denier, even going so far to lie to some rabbies, one a holocaust survivor, and conned them to appear in a very anti-Semitic documentary that would have hitler proud.

    Anderson has believes that his King James Version bible is God himself, and teaches the word made flesh of John:1 referred to the bible and not Jesus, no ifb Baptist or any other orthodox church believes that.

    Anderson believes that Jesus’s death on the cross did not pay or atone for sin, that he had to roast in hell to achieve that, no Baptist church other than the ones he has started and tv preachers believe that,

    Anderson teaches that no gay person can ever be saved and that they are all child molesters, who need to be stoned .
    Many Christians do no agree with the gay lifestyle, like they don’t agree with sex before marriage, divorce, marrying outside ones faith. But they don’t believe in stoning or harming others, we are all sinners, and Christians whom whosever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    I hate it when Anderson calls all gay people, and even the ones who are no longer, child molestes, that is not true.

    Sadly There is a lot of fear, misunderstanding and mistrust between some who are gay, and some who are very conservative Christian, and a nut job like Steve Anderson only helps foster those feelings.

    A lot of preachers and non Christians do not care about Obama , I feel a lot about what has been said about both president Bush and President Obama has been way over the top and uncalled for.

    But none have taken to say they are praying for the death of Obama so they can rejoice and do a jig his funeral, but Anderson and his small but growing fast cult do.

    Steve Anderson is a very dangerousl man operating under an orthodox name.

    He has networked with every well known conspiracy, and anti government kook out there, and with his anti police rants, he will attract even more people.

    So please don’t lump Steve Anderson in with legit churches that you may not agree with, it is just as wrong as him saying all gay people are child molesters,
    Extremists like Steve Anderson and his growing followers pose a threat to everyone, Christian and non Christian alike.

    Reply
    1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

      Anderson’s theology, in the main, and his methods of interpretation, are very much IFB. So is his view of the world. I spent a number of years in the IFB church movement and I still have close contact with people who are card-carrying members of the cult. While Anderson is extreme on a handful of issues, most of his beliefs can be found in countless IFB churches. The real issue is that Anderson makes the IFB church movement look bad. He’s not smart enough to hide his bigotry like other IFB preachers do. Perhaps your church, your pastor is different. I doubt it, but it certainly is possible.

      As far as Anderson and conspiracy theories. I attended numerous IFB preachers meetings over the years. I heard plenty of conspiratorial preaching. In fact, one could argue that the very nature of dispensational, pretribulational eschatology is conspiratorial.

      As with any movement, there is a wide variety of peripheral beliefs in the IFB church movement. However, there are a handful of beliefs which make one an IFB’er and Anderson’s core beliefs put him solidly in the IFB box.

      Thank you for commenting.

      Bruce

      Reply
  27. robert p

    thank you for your kind reply,

    i also have spent most of my life in a ifb church, i have seen the good and the bad,
    my pastor is nothing nor believes anything like steve anderson, in fact his son is a border patrol gaurd in az.

    most church’s do not agree with nor support steve anderson.
    i have heard many manogawds over the years, i am not impressed with any of them.
    i am sorry that your experience has been with some of the worst ifb, no group is perfect,
    but steve anderson does not even believe in the hostoric fundamentals and foundations of the faith.
    he is opposed to college education for women, against them seeing male doctors (who anderson calls depraved perverts), he is opposed to any kind of bible school, college or university.

    my point from my end, Sanderson is a wolf in sheeps clothing, a product of the extreme ifb elements
    he stands alone on his very own fruit cake island.
    he does not represent nothing but hinself and his hown grown and spreading cult.
    the man wants to be considered a true ifb, because he craves legitimacy from that name.
    i understand why people dont care anout the ifb because of some bad eggs, but lets not include anderson as one of typical of thier beleifs.
    on this we will probally have to agree to disagree
    again thank yoy for your kind reply and allowing to express my view and reply.

    Reply
  28. G. M. Matheny

    Spam comment deleted. Instead of trying to sell your book, how about actually leaving a comment that is relevant to this post.

    Reply
  29. Brian

    “my pastor is nothing nor believes anything like steve anderson, in fact his son is a border patrol gaurd in az.”

    I think there is a lesson to be learned here. I, for one, feel obliged to state that I might have judged rather harshly. I never considered the border guard. I admit that the border guard NEVER even entered into my limited understanding. I challenge all non-believers to admit that they too have never considered the border guard©. I have been humbled so many times by the independent baptist insghts…. Will it never end?

    Reply
  30. Brian

    I am asking the question: Is Steve really so bad? Another IFB pastor, not Steve™ himself but another IFB pastor, has a son who is a border guard©.
    Will you open your heart to this and answer? If another IFB pastor has a border guard son, then is Steve really so bad?
    Well, yes, yes of course! (I think I see it.)
    On another subject, Donald Trump is perhaps the Anti-Christ. He would build a wall and very possibly put the border guard son of the IFB pastor on the bread-line. You see? YOU SEE? Satan is having a field day with free elections!

    Reply
  31. DPV

    When I watched his video on youtube I got the impression he was the leader of a cult. There are many things I disagree with that he believes. We are to hate the sin not the person, as for obama he is our leader and we are to pray for the leaders of our country whether we like them or not. Personally I dont like him.
    As for his comments about homosexuals, etc, I know many people that say worse than that that are not Christians. I would never attend a church that basically is inciting hate towards others. Its just wrong.

    Reply
  32. Brian Thomas

    To me, he Seems like a typical racist asshole who preaches hate instead of peace. This clown seems exactly like those Westboro Baptist assholes we used to spit on when they came to our college to preach hate. If bigots like this monster go to Heaven, Id be shocked. Judgement is not his to pass down. He should worry about his own church, his own family and stop condemning others to damnation. Who ever heard of a preacher saying he “hates” a person and wants them to “die and burn in hell.” For SHAME.

    Reply
  33. Maryann

    I will try to be brief and to the point though so much could be said with all of these posts. There are bigger issues than what meets the eye here and without an honest view of history, “know thy history” and “follow the ancient path” one would be very confused by the Word for, “we do wrestle against flesh and blood but against principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places.” Everyone has an agenda and seeks to promulgate their own way of life as okay or allowed. Sin is simply going against Gods word which is the opposite of faith because faith is not simple belief in Jesus/Messiah. Homosexuality is a sin and there is no getting around it. Anderson’s hatred can and cannot be justified. It can be justified if one has done the research into the agenda of and writings of the hierarchy within the movement which is the same hierarchy of all movements including modern day Christianity. It is the same spirit of lies and the same people behind the curtains pulling the strings for all social movements especially so-called “reason” as mentioned by a commenter below. The science, history and reason point to proof in the Scripture by such a huge margin that they lock up people like Kent Hovind and other very influential and affluent scholars. What most believe of so-called scholars are easily provable lies contrived by government and elitist propagandist. Why do so few look for source material and truth; I cannot understand this.
    Drunkenness is also a damnable sin but we are taught, by the same hierarchy, that it is a disease and hence okay. I am an alcoholic and still get drunk once a month or so. The word is very clear that, “No drunkard will enter the kingdom of heaven” and that this type of person will suffer the second death. So; I do not go around making excuses or lying about His word and neither should anyone else with any damnable affliction. The Word of God can be harsh and is exacting, he does not need any more traitors and the only way to follow Him is to, “Love Him more than yourself” and “Your neighbors as yourself”. To love someone is a choice and NOT a feeling as clearly shown in the scripture. John the Baptist called the ruler out about his sin and it cost him his life.
    We are to pray for our rulers and love our enemies; Anderson does not do this and is defiant against the clear command. Love does not mean placate or keep silent. As with these people in high places, with the rulers of darkness behind them giving them the world that Messiah refused, they have changed the meanings of words to create great confusion. Hell is a great example, we are not promised eternity in an uncomfortable place, this is the lie right out of the garden; we are promised death at the resurrection via the lake of fire. “The second death” the spiritual death. The Kingdom of Heaven is now and choices on who we believe and follow is now! Hell is a contrived concoction and easily dispelled with a brief understanding of the English language and systematic study of the Scripture, one does not have to know Greek or Hebrew to discern this lie. There is no justice of anyone burning in torment forever and ever and I do not care what their sins are. God is a god of justice and His word will come to pass. I could go on about so many untruths such as the Sabbath, and no I am not a Zionist, etc. but the bottom line is, “only a remnant will be saved” and this is because of the hardness of hearts and the love of our sins. Homosexuals must stop practicing homosexuality, drunks must stop drinking, liars must stop lying etc., It breaks my heart to see how much damage two-hundred years of purposeful deception and the love of money by fake believers can do. Christians will be persecuted and killed here in this country just as we are seeing around the world because of these mis-guided, at best, and lying, at worst, people.

    Reply
    1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

      *sigh*

      Reply
      1. Zoe

        time to print of some t-shirts Bruce with – *sigh* on it

        just never ends does it?

        Maryann wrote:

        Why do so few look for source material and truth; I cannot understand this.

        Oh the irony.

        Reply
        1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

          Nope, it never ends. The tee shirts are a great idea. ?

          Reply
          1. Suzanne

            I’d buy one, particularly after having to deal with nasty trolls for reposting this….

            Amusing and sickening how many ‘Good Christians’ come here to tell you that you do not know the Bible and were never a Christian. What the fuck do they think you were doing all those years? Working for Lord Satan?

            I am sorry my friend that reposting this at NLQ has brought some more nutcases out of the woodworks. I just closed comments on it over there.

      2. Maryann

        I do apologize for the “sigh” but also thank you for posting my comments. My words were not meant for anyone other than that pastor and whatever issues he has that are clearly not biblical when speaking the way he does. As for everyone else, it is not for anyone to judge those outside the congregation but within the congregation. I am in no congregation because I cannot find one and even if I did I do not care to add hypocrisy my list.
        If anyone cares to debate on an issue, debate meaning respectful intelligent speech, I would be happy to but be mindful that my “source material” that seems to upset people, will not be what most expect and I can back up what little I have come to understand/believe in. I am no scholar or anyone really but I do care about the things happening in this world which has taken me too surprising truths and some painful ones as well. I always appreciate truth whether I like it or not and that is how I learn by looking at all sides, as I should think we all do.
        Thanks again

        Reply
        1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

          Let’s start with your “truth” source, the Bible. Why should we pay attention to anything the Bible says?

          Reply
          1. Maryann

            That would be an extremely big subject and the sources I would be referring to would be historical non biblical sources on a given subject, if I have done research on that particular subject. Bible facts and writings as far as the penning of the Septuagint is concerned can and is verified, given the dates it was written down so we can go from there but other sources, non-believing ones and even antagonists such Aristotle, Plato and others. Again, the subject matter would have to be narrowed to what is provable and what is not i.e. what some have termed “faith” but is perversion of the word “faith” as no faith is needed. Then after the verifiable facts of history you can see the truth within the Word as all of history is circular and repetitive another common fact given both within and without the scripture. Time has proven the greatest asset of all and history the greatest benefactor of knowable truth. The question really becomes who is saying what and what should we believe when there is so much misinformation around. Hurley’s list of fallacies is a great asset in the discernment of truth because there is truth in these fallacies and this is pure mathematics again a provable science and a logical way of thinking. For that matter why should we pay attention to anything anyone has to say? So-called Science say’s if I cannot see or touch it, it does not exist. Yet we cannot see or touch an atom and we believe it emphatically; why? Because we have enough objective evidence to substantiate a belief in that unseen evidence even though many have come to understand that this is just a theory as any other. The Scripture agrees with this logic when it defines faith as, “…The evidence of things not seen.” I submit that continuity of logical application by a truth seeking individual will yield the same result, as any other belief and much stronger than imagined. Why is the belief in atoms not called faith, for example?

          2. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

            You need to get to the point, Maryann. This is a blog, not a debate forum. What SPECIFIC issue do you want to talk about? Keep in mind that you are already far afield from the subject of this post. I will grant you a little bit of latitude, even though I am inclined to say, bullshit.

            What is the Bible?
            Is it God’s word?
            Is it a supernatural text?
            Is it written by God?
            Is it inerrant?
            Is it infallible?
            Is it historically and scientifically accurate? (i.e. Adam and Eve were real people, the universe was created in 6 24 days, the earth is 6,021 years old, the earth was covered with a flood 4,000 years ago)

            If you answer yes to these questions, have you read any of Bart Ehrman’s books?

          3. Maryann

            Yes, it has got way off point but I was trying to respond. Hopefully the people in that church will see my original response and give some thought to their words.
            Have a great weekend.

      3. sgl

        you can upgrade to new, more hip “bruce 2.0” by changing *sigh* to *le sigh* 😉

        https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/le_sigh
        http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=le%20sigh

        Reply
  34. Geoff

    I won’t comment on the bible bits, other than to say there is nothing in the bible that in any way gives us access to knowledge or truth that is not otherwise obtainable, and can certainly be improved on.

    I would, however, correct your comments about science. You say ‘science says….’ etc. No, science doesn’t say anything. If something can’t be seen or touched then ‘science’ would ask does it have any effect that can be observed. For example, in the realm of quantum physics there are very peculiar events occurring that we don’t understand, but can measure. Atoms can be seen under the microscope, have a very real presence that we can observe in the real world (have you ever heard of graphene?), and indeed we are now working with particles that are smaller than atoms by a factor of billions.

    Don’t try and compare the bible with science. It loses every time without fail.

    Reply
    1. Maryann

      The response misses my point completely. Yes, since the 1980’s we have been able to see atoms. It only took 2,400 years since the speculation of them so my point is still viable, I was trying to be simple in my reasoning not debating an atom. But my point has been missed and my point could be applied to any subject. It is not my desire to create hostility or anything else. My only point originally is if the same logic and reasoning along with the search/research for an accurate, historical and well-reasoned logic would be weighed by a truth seeking individual then the truth would appear and much of it undeniable and that truth it backed by science, given a proper definition and not one riddled with agenda. Terms such as “science” need a clear definition in the minds of those speaking about it. Many of the ancient ideas and thoughts of the ancient sciences came about through the understanding and questioning of scripture, that too is a provable fact hence the reason why pseudoscience came so strongly into the academic structure by design. If one wants to believe that there is no agenda in the scientific community and negate provable facts about this agenda then there is nowhere to go. An individual must do a study into in these sciences, and there are many different ones, to come to an understanding of what science is; at least to them. To say that science say’s only truth, or nothing, is to not have done any research into the discipline as a whole rather than part and to close your eyes to the historical agenda. True science, without agenda and verifiable is extremely rare to come these day’s and is attested to by those in the various disciplines which one could easily discover and make their own minds up but usually do not. I do not trust science because they lie, science itself does not but is controlled by others and I could give you numerous examples but prefer, if you care, to see for yourself. The comment “don’t compare the bible with science it looses every time without fail” please offer your proof with such a statement. That is untrue and emotionalism not very scientific at all.

      Reply
      1. Geoff

        Science is the gradual accumulation of understanding of our world and universe through observation and evidence. If there’s an agenda then it is nothing more than the seeking of that understanding.

        I deliberately avoid using the word ‘truth’ because science is only ever provisional, in that it could be superseded by strong, contrary evidence.

        My statement about the bible versus science is based on the fact that not one person, either on this forum or the world at large, has ever offered anything that the bible has to say that has trumped science. It doesn’t lose most times; it loses every time without exception. If you know of an exception then please tell.

        Reply
        1. Maryann

          I promise, I am not going to post anymore but feel the need to respond as I did not see this until now. There is so much scientific evidence on the world wide flood that I honestly did not realize it was still a debate. I have included a link to Harvard University below, in case there are truth seekers and there is much more on the subject. It is the same with dinosaurs and University’s that hold prestige to you, not me, are verifying these things. Either way; for those that may have interest, here is just one among many University’s and experts that do prove these things.
          This one is for the Radcliffe Institute for advanced study at Harvard University, geology Dr. David Montgomery
          https://www.radcliffe.harvard.edu/news/radcliffe-magazine/david-r-montgomery-excavating-between-disciplines

          Reply
          1. sgl

            your linked article about “rocks don’t lie” author does not support your contention that the bible is believable. he looked at the interaction of how bible believers and scientists interacted thru history, and how that mutual interaction impacted both science and theology. ie, the book is more socialogical, not scientific. it does *not* support the notion that the biblical account in genesis and the global flood is accurate. not at all.

            i suspect that you haven’t actually read the book, but have relied on other people to claim that he supports the global flood, to lend credence to their lies. to make it sound like real scientists support the accuracy of the bible. the article you mention does not claim that he supports the a single global flood (ie, noah and genesis) as being a true event in history.

            re-read the article you linked with your best reading comprehension skills, and compare it to what other people have told you the book supposedly says, and it should be clear. and the conclusion is: there was no global flood.

          2. Maryann

            Apparently I am suffering from a lack of articulation. First, I am not trying to prove anything. I listen to debates because of the points and rebuttals. I listen and watch the slides as presented in the video and study/research further but as stated prior. I do not have an agenda and I do not find fault with opposing views. I belong nowhere because of my beliefs, few as they may be. But I will say that I do believe in the Messiah with years of cross discipline research and that He is not portrayed by modern day Christianity. It would be impossible for me to give these proofs in a blog nor has the owner of the blog given permission. Nor is it my responsibility. I just wanted to share reasons to question our beliefs whether they be for or against scripture and the ultimate truth is that I despise religion more than any atheist because of the picture that I have had to wrestle with. I do not know everything or anything really but we all need to use consistent standards. I do apologize for my lack in being able to express myself but I have never been on a blog before. Again, try to question and study all sides of an issue that is really the only point from the beginning. And I am sorry for those filled with hate they are not representative of how people should be that does not mean that the truth is not to be spoken. As stated prior, there is sin and I will say it even to my own death but I am not a judge, if anything I am the worst of all; knowing somethings and not able to live it, for which I make no excuse.

          3. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

            When commenting, it helps to know to whom you are responding. I am an atheist. I was a Christian for 50 years. I pastored Evangelical churches for 25 years. Most of the people who comment on this blog are ex-Christians or liberal Christians. We are an educated lot, so there’s no need for you to “educate” us.

            Blogs are best suited for short, concise comments and discussions. That’s why I asked you a few questions.

            Steven Anderson does not read this blog. He despises me as a person and my writing is antithetical to his beliefs and way of life. If you want to talk/debate him I suggest you check out his website/blog.

          4. Maryann

            Thank you for your clarification, I hope you educate yourself by looking, researching and challenging your own beliefs as I have and I see that you have but please continue. I do apologize for my ignorance on this blog, I was just offended by this persons hatred. Thank you for being gracious to me and though you will find this foolish I will pray for you and maybe someday you could for me.

          5. Maryann

            I am sorry Bruce when re-reading what I wrote I fear it may sound condescending, please know that it is not meant that way or meant as an offense. Again thank you for allowing my participation and I Shall take your above advise in the future, if there is one. Also, allow my apologies for those who supposedly represent Messiah again not to negate the requirement of speaking out but to do so in love. That is the one thing that cannot be faked and why so many fail at it. Anyway, have a great weekend and blessings to your beautiful family.

      2. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

        The point would be the sciences such biology, cosmology,astronomy, geology, and archeology throughly repudiate the Evangelical/Conservatives/Fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible. It is a book — due to its age — that is patently anti-scientific and, in some instances, immoral.

        Reply
  35. Brian

    Dear Maryann, you are not a bad person. That you sometimes drink to excess only proves that you are human and all of us have some excess here and there, one time or another. I am sorry to tell you that there is no God to use for your next week or two. It has gone away and you will have be on your own. Be good to yourself and don’t worry quite so much about all the fine points of fine points fine pointing along. Just take this time and do things you enjoy for you. It will be okay.

    Reply
    1. Maryann

      Brian, thank you for your kind words, though I disagree with some of them. But I do agree with your premise. Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

      Reply
  36. Fallen Fundamental

    The length of this discussion proves one thing. The bible spurs within us the greatest of emotion. The word of GOD is quick and powerful. There is no denying that if you search the internet for blogs where people are getting all worked up over the Koran or Buddha’s teachings you will not find it or certainly not to the magnitude of biblical debate. Only the true word of GOD preached by one that truly believes it without need of harsh language or overbearing tone accomplishes the mission of the LORD and that is getting people to look at the value of their own soul.

    I too am a former Independent Fundamental Pastor. Like the author of this blog said, “There is nothing special about the words of Steven Anderson…” It is the spirit in which what is said is conveyed. GOD said that HE draweth nigh unto a broken and contrite spirit NOT a hard hate emanating one. Those who look at Anderson’s doctrine may not take issue, but many take issue with his delivery. GOD said that the children of GOD are not appointed unto wrath, so it is that they may not dispense it either. We are commanded to be harmless. Whether we agree or disagree harm is not to come from a child of GOD. Offense will occur, but only at the word of GOD not the actions of the one talking about it.

    Even folks here trying to maintain composure are displaying emotion that would not come out otherwise. The bible stirs the heart. Even the author will agree in his heart of hearts that there is nothing like the bible that evokes such conversation, that causes people to plead with people to convert for the saving of a soul or tell people of the fallacy of following a dead mans book. This pleading would not be so intense if it weren’t for the strong conviction that the soul is eternal and that the word is living indeed.

    No matter whether talking to believer, atheist, orthodox, or other, discussion of the word of GOD sparks more heat, emotion and fervor than any other topic. The stance of someone conservative or liberal is generally based in moral found in the bible. Therefore, politics, policy, and law are very hot topics because a persons stance on the “issues” is directly reflective of there moral grounding. That moral grounding is in America based on many individuals understanding of the bible and its teachings.

    The problem with Christianity is NOT the LORD Jesus, but people. The hypocrisy is not of GOD but men. The love of GOD is shown through men and when men lack the true power of salvation through grace (not education, being good, or any other work) then a glimpse of a benevolent GOD of love will shine through.

    GOD said that men are nothing more than dust and ash. We give them much more credit to destroy the creator than they deserve. I am a man, an in my best efforts I constantly fail, not only biblical standards, but people around me. I want to leave a legacy as was stated through out this blog as that is a great value in life, but I also want it to be understood that a man that truly practices what is in the bible would strive to be as Christ was and would only live to serve others.

    Mr. Gerencser,

    You said that you were a Christian for 50 years, and pastored for 25. If you truly were born again and trusted the LORD Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour all those years ago. You came to the true knowledge that The LORD Jesus is the SON of GOD and is LORD and not a man, or a jew that died 2,000+ years ago. You bowed your head and heart and called upon the name of the KING of Kings and LORD of Lords. If that is what you did and you truly received HIM. You are still a CHRISTian and that can never change. NO man can pluck them out of My hand, that means even yourself. I will get upon my knees and pray for you, not for your death or hurt, but for you life and that of your family. If you are a true Child of GOD then the destruction of what you are doing now is worse than any person that has never known the LORD. I can not with all that is in understand how one can go from gospel preacher to denying a Holy GOD. Just because I can’t understand does not mean that it can’t happen.

    There were martyrs that died for that precious name, horrible deaths recorded in history and still today are they persecuted. Yet, you being a preach of that book got offended at some point, confused men with GOD and walked away from HIM with out a threat of death or famine.

    I have been hurt by many a Christian, pastor, church person and even denomination, but I know it is all mans fault, my fault. I know that there is a peace that passeth understanding, but when I turn my eyes upon me and how I feel and how people treat me and forget the great cost that Jesus paid and what people said about HIM and beat HIM and hated/hate HIM. Who am I? The LORD loves you and all those that have written on this BLOG. HE love Steven Anderson and President Obama. He would that all would repent and come to know HIM and the wonder of HIS love.

    We will all die. If the rapture be pre-tribulation, or post really matters not. We don’t really know when it will be. Either opinion has not caused Holy Ghost revival, so the missing ingredient isn’t extreme modesty, old fashioned music, KJV onlyism, or any such thing. It is true confession of Jesus as the LORD and submission to HIM as such. All the stuff that is preached to “glorify” GOD is a by product of a truly submitted and sanctified life.

    Reply
    1. sgl

      originality: F
      brevity: D / C-
      spelling/punctionation/grammar: B+

      fallen: everything you’ve said, we’ve all heard hundreds of times before. you have no idea of how bruce or any of the rest of us think, because you haven’t bothered to learn anything about bruce, or frankly, any other atheist. you’ve scrunched him into your little theological box without a thought. and you regurgitate your theological sound bites without any understanding of the assumptions behind them.

      most of the readers here are well versed in the bible, and also in biblical criticism. we’ve read bart erhman, the biblical scholar, who lays out all the inconstancies in the bible. we’ve come to the conclusion that the bible is far from inerrant. some then become liberal christians, some theists, some agnostics, and some atheists. we understand how you think (and your arguments) and we disagree with them. you have no understanding of us, or the reasons we reject your arguments. you comment above seems indicate you have zero interest in learning anything. so why should we waste any time in “discussion” which is really just a one-way pontification of drivel we’ve already heard and rejected? afraid if you actually want any answers or two-way discussion, you’ll have to give some indication that you’re listening and have some clue about what atheists really believe, not what fundamentalist (wrongly) claim atheists believe.

      Reply
      1. Geoff

        I find it incredible that people who have the ability to think, though perhaps they don’t overdo it, can drop pre and post tribulation statements into a conversation with the intention of being taken seriously. It’s like comparing the relative merits of Santa Claus with the Easter Bunny.

        I was hoping the handle ‘Fallen Fundamental’ might imply someone who used to be a fundamentalist, but had seen sense. Instead all we get are tired, worn out superstitious propaganda type recitations of long discredited nonsense.

        Reply
        1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

          I think he views himself as a “nice” Fundamentalist — an oxymoron if there ever was one.

          Reply
    2. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

      Do you think I write because I am a poor, hurt person, wounded by mean Christians? Hardly. I write because Evangelical Christian beliefs and practices are psychologically harmful. Sometimes, these believes even cause physical harm. I get it, you want to turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse. Try as you might to suggest otherwise, underneath your smiling beliefs is a God who tortures people in hell for eternity if they refuse to worship him.

      I am sooo glad I am still a Christian. 🙂

      Reply
    3. Brian

      Oh shucks, where to start where to start….? No, it’s just too much truth all at once for me to bear!
      I’ll just leave you a book recommendation… Have you ever read Jack Henry Abbott’s book, In the Belly of the Beast, Fallen Fundamental? He uses the Bible in a way that positively proves your thesis here! Well, sort-of: While locked up in jail, he takes the holy book, soaks it in the toilet until it’s a weighty tome and then puts it into a pillow case so he can whack somebody with it. Prey on that for awhile.
      That you can actually state all these things as if they are a proof of some kind that the Bible is THE book, flabbergasts me. Where I live, whole swaths of beautiful mountain territory have been turned to ashes by fire. Fire loves us from before time! Fire continues to be patient while we carry on in our human ways. I have loved fire with all my heart but have renounced it. I am so happy to hear that I am still a man of fire and that because I once invited total devastation into my heart, I will always be owned by fire.
      We will all die, you say, with gravity. Bullshit. We will all die, all live and all have an ice-cream at Dairy Queen.
      You are so confused you think that everything everybody does is you! This is one of the most harmful results of belief! Thank goodness I have somebody to blame for how Jesus tortured me as a little boy. You prick, Fallen Fundamental, what you did to me was merciless and you still lie about it every day with your gentle preacher hatred. I bet if you had a son and God told you to gut him, you would. You trust your God that much, don’t you, man of homogenized misery.

      Reply
  37. John Martin

    The Bible is infallible – it is clear on the issue of homo perversion

    Reply
    1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

      *sigh*

      Case closed then.

      Reply
    2. Geoff

      How can you possibly think the bible is infallible? That’s just silly.

      Reply
      1. John Martin

        You’ll find out how silly when you are in the flames of Hell!

        Reply
        1. Geoff

          Lol, I’ll probably see you there!

          Reply
        2. John Arthur

          Hi John Martin,

          What kind of person would torture people in a lake of fire tormenting them day and night forever. This is pure evil and is far worse than Hitler who threw about 6 million Jews in his gas torture chambers.

          If the devil exists and is pure evil, how is a cruel god who tortures people forever distinguishable from the cruelty of the mythical Satan? Isn’t he as mythical as Satan?

          As for the bible being infallible, do you realize that there are over 40,000 denominations in the world today, most of whom differ from each other in some point of theology or other and most of whom are Fundamentalist?

          Even if the bible is infallible (WHICH IT IS NOT), who has the infallible interpretation? You and those who think like you, Pastor Steve Anderson and those who think like him? Which one of you is the Fundamentalist pope?

          Your religion is based on fear and does severe damage to the emotional well being of all who think that God is such a tyrant to torture people forever. He is neither loving, nor just.

          Shalom,

          John Arthur

          Reply
  38. Charles

    Bruce. In light of your main post and the many comments above, I was wondering if you could pontificate for us on a few sentences that I hear from numerous American fundies. Their brief spiel often goes something like this:

    “The Bible was written to be a really simple book. You know. God wanted to have a simple book written for a simple people with simple minds—like us.”

    Reply
    1. Brian

      Oh Charles, must you use the word, pontificate? One thing that pleases me about Mr. Gerencser’s writtten voice is that he does not impress me as a pontificator! Steven Anderson, though, well that is quite another issue. Have your read how Anderson likes to begin his day by picking up his wife and carrying her from one side of the house to another to demonstrate his kingship in the home and in their relationship? Now there is a notable pontificator, it seems to this old noggin’…
      What are you asking, again?

      Reply

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