I recently received the following email from David Hoffman, pastor of First Baptist Church in Lowell, Indiana. First Baptist is a King James-only Independent Fundamentalist Baptist congregation. Hoffman is a graduate of Hyles-Anderson College — Jack Hyles’ institution of lower learning.
Hoffman wrote:
I read your words about the death of your father-in-law. I am sorry for your loss and the conundrum that you are [sic] your wife try to rectify. I too discovered the hypocrisy, inconsistencies, and perversion of the fundamental Baptist movement. I did not blindly follow them and I do not blindly follow the media hype about the “pandemic.” Your fears of the virus appears [sic] to me that you simply switched from blindly following fundamentalism to the agenda of the media. One has had several months to discover the hypocrisy, inconsistencies, and perversion of the Democrats, leftists, and media outlets. The “pandemic” should be more accurately called the PLANdemic into a globalist society exactly as …. dare I say it …. as the Bible predicted and written by the Rockefeller Foundation in 2010. I am sure Rockefeller and his globalists have our best interest at heart.
I was directly involved with four fundamental pastors who turned out to be narcissists (Hyles, Hyles, Schaap, Miller), but I did not abandon my faith in the Book; in fact, it solidified my faith in the Book because the Book forewarned of these cheap charlatans.
I will leave it to readers to respond to Hoffman. I physically don’t have the energy to school Hoffman about the Coronavirus pandemic. Besides, I do wonder if he is a Christian. Hoffman puts his faith in the King James Bible, not Jesus. In his world, it’s the Bible that says, not Jesus. One wonders how people were saved before 1611 or before the invention of the printing press or before the New Testament was written and collated?
Want to learn more about Hoffman’s Bibliodolatry? Please read a letter written by him on HACAlumni.com.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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When I was in college, I went through a period of trying to live by whatever book I read that week–or to emulate authors of said book, or characters therein.
Others go through a similar phase. Most of us grow out of it: Further study–or simply contact with the “real world”–teaches us that you can’t follow any written work because, ultimately, all we have is the way we interpret it. (And those who read King James are interpreting an interpretation, i.e., translation.. Likewise, we have only our impression or interpretation of a character or author.
I don’t know whether it’s more misguided to try to live by a text (transcribed and translated, no less) or a personage who may or may not have actually existed—and who has physical and biological impossibilities attributed to him, no less.
I love people who think the pandemic is made up or some great plot. What is wrong with these people???? “It’s all fake….it’s a plot against trump/republicans/conservatives/christians/whoever…globalists are using it to take over the world…blah blah ad nauseum”. Can someone please introduce me to these people who are organizing the world against trump and his racist, bigoted, ass kissing, hateful, rage filled, facist loving, brainless, totalitarian led, lemming horde???
I want to know who these “plandemic” organizers because, if this drivel is to be believed, these organizers have united communist countries, democracies, totalitarian regimes, autocracies, and oligarchies against this lemming horde – all to get rid of trump and christians. It’s no small accomplishment to unite Russia, China, Taiwan, North Korea, European Union, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Canada, India, Pakistan..basically all countries worldwide (many of which have a rather strong dislike of others around them) into a secret plan to create a fake pandemic to eliminate American facists and the conservative lemmings.
But they didn’t stop there. They united all other major religions, plus many other beliefs, for the same cause. Muslims, Jews, Hindus, pagans, satanists, humanists, atheists, non-believers, and pastafarians have all joined the giant plot. That’s a very amazing skill to bring these groups together in a common cause to create a “plandemic.”
Oh wait, I know, you are going to tell me that all of these people, the whole world, are being tricked by these mysterious globalists. (FYI.. I think Abraham Lincoln had something to say about fooling people which may apply here…)
Ok..fine.. I guess this makes sense if you want to ignore reality and accept the sieve like logic of the trump world. And I guess I shouldn’t be surprised since David believes in “the book” which lacks any serious logic and requires absolute trust in a man made religion created by a church that doesn’t have a great ethical and moral historical record.
But, following the logic that all of us except the god protected lemmings are being mislead, we must then believe that many governments around the world are shutting down and damaging economies because they support this “plandemic”. And hospitals are filling up because people are being fooled into believing they have a serious illness – even to the point of being placed in ICU – because they are so gullible about this “plandemic”. And people go onto respirators and life support, consuming nearly all of available resources, because of this supposed “plandemic”.
More than 300,000 United States citizens have died, along with millions worldwide. It it the absolute height of self serving idiocy to think this is anything other than a real and serious pandemic. Millions of people in the USA have lost jobs or work hours, and are wondering when the will be evicted, or how they will pay bills, or how they will feed their family. We have whole groups of people struggling, suffering, and dying. And what do religious lemmings like David do??? They bury their face in their precious book and ignore those around them that are in need. They leave the godless heathens to suffer their fate for believing in this fake pandemic. Well, unless,the heathen gets saved…then they will send prayer to them in support.
Instead of helping others, they send passive aggressive emails pretending to care while accusing someone of mindlessly following “media hype” then close with usual accusation of perversion.
David, I will say it plainly. Anyone who would use a death in the family to contact someone to berate them then call them a pervert is one sick, cold hearted, evil, disgusting, stupid asshole. No one here gives one single fuck what you think. Maybe read your precious book and review that whole plank in the eye story. Maybe spend more time learning to love and accept, instead of hate and reject.
Sage covered it all.
I bet this pastor gave up his Facebook account and went to Parler where he gets his Real News (TM).
as usual, we have Dave, who remains willfully ignorant to cling to his nonsense. The vicious selfishness that a poor Christian must indulge in to pretend that there is no pandemic is endemic to the breed.
I’m sure he’s loving his Onanism Network with its lies and failure.
So the book forewarned of these cheap charlatans but why do you get to identify who these cheap charlatans are? Maybe you are one
I had a conversation with my son this week. One of his friends is a nurse, she has seen all of this firsthand. We discussed the willful ignorance of the Bible/guns/gawd crowd with regards to simple safety precautions and I wondered aloud how some people can be SO fucking stupid. And he said, “The gullible personality types in Christianity are already primed to toss logic and thinking out the window and blindly trot along like lemmings behind their pastors.”
Yep.
‘the book’ is a big collection of bullshit. And you sound like a cheap charlatan, which I can/forgive, but an asshole without compassion for people who are suffering shouldn’t call himself a pastor.
Are you a microbiologist or a geneticist, Mr. Hoffman? (I’m not a professional in either field, but I have studied biology and have a family member who is a microbiologist.)
Are you an Infectious Disease specialist? (I’m not, but I work for several ID specialists.)
Do you understand the concept of disease vectors? (Yup.)
Do you understand the process of natural selection, and the concept of virus mutations? (Oh, hell, yeah!)
If you don’t understand enough about biology to understand why SARS-CoV-2 is a dangerous pandemic, and why everyone should be taking stringent measures to contain it, have a heaping helping of STFU and GTFO.
OC–there are a lot of those idjits who gave up Facebook or Twitter for Parler, but then they have to go back to tell everyone how they’ve left. The rest of us wish they would stay away.
Mr Hoffman sounds just like all the Q nuts and MAGAts I come across, who spew bs that repels all the rest of us. While I feel sorry for people who are so devoted to their delusions, I instantly block all of them, as they have moved way past the realms of reason and logic into the paranoid conspiracy theorist world.
I didn’t expect Bruce to publish my comment. We have had eight months to discern the hypocrisies, inconsistencies, and perversion of the agenda of the media. There are many doctors who have demonstrated courage against the agenda and have given an alternative and healthy approach. I would love to have Bruce school me. I recently just listened to a couple of lectures by Bart Ehrman. I enjoy reading sources contrary to my beliefs. Did any of the critics read the article by the Rockefeller Foundation published in 2010? Open-mindedness is a wonderful place to learn. I really feel the love and tolerance from the comments.
The cure rate of Covid is 99.9% for people under 60 years of age. The annual death rate in America for 2020 will be close, but less than the annual death rates of 2019 and 2018. Anyone can research these facts. The CDC admitted in August that only 6% of the “Covid-deaths” can be attributed to the virus alone. One can discover this truth buried in the report.
My son and granddaughter contracted the virus and a natural doctor came to their house without a mask and gave them a natural form of hydroxychloroquine and both recovered very quickly. They live in Costa Rica. My daughter lives in Australia and her state has been shut down due to less than 75 deaths. Is that not suspicious?
Oh, by the way, the words of God have been following a pattern of progressive revelation throughout history. Bruce’s cynical question reveals a lack of “schooling” to use his word.
I’m sure readers will see your comment for what it is.
As far as progressive revelation is concerned, you have no evidence for your claim outside of your peculiar interpretation of a fallible, contradictory religious text. The Bible says doesn’t count for much of anything. Progressive revelation is a faith claim. That’s fine, but don’t expect rational people to buy what you are selling.
The IFB church movement is a cult, so you shouldn’t expect readers to treat you kindly or tolerate your irrational (and dangerous)nonsense. Scores of people been psychologically (and physically) harmed by IFB beliefs and practices. Lives destroyed, marriages ruined, children harmed. And then there’s the sexual abuse scandals, group homes scandals, and, and, and …
So, you are not going to find respect or acceptance from me or many of the readers of this blog. It will be a good day when the IFB church movement draws its last breath. So much harm caused for so many years…
We aren’t required to love or tolerate anyone. We can choose to, but we aren’t under your rules. Another freedom once a person escapes from the cult that is Christianity. ‘Progressive revelation’ sounds a lot like alternative facts.
Have a lovely day, you seem so… nice.
Oh, do give it a rest, Mr. Hoffman. You deserve neither love nor tolerance from me, and you will get none.
Australia is perfectly within their rights to shut things down to prevent people from dying. “Less than 75 deaths” is still too many. 300,000+ in the States is unconscionable. Where I live, in Manitoba, for a while we had no deaths at all and the first fatality hit me very deeply. We’re now up to over 500, largely because the “Mah freedumbs!” assholes have not been taking proper precautions.
One preventable death is one death too many. No exceptions.
And if your behaviour and perspective are any indication, “the words of God” are fucking useless as a guide to sane, rational living. Stuff them up the Holy Spook’s ass.
Oddly, the Christian is required to love others but instead hates them while calling it love; then saying they only do what God commands. I wonder, was the cherry-picker machine invented by a fundy Christian?
rolls eyes Doubling down on idiotic statements only makes you seem infinitely more idiotic and obtuse. Full hospitals and ICUs are a problem, regardless of your self centered twisting of statistics.
Let break this down as simply as we can so you can understand – all in the spirit of open mindedness..
“The cure rate of Covid is 99.9% for people under 60 years of age”
Only a few people have died, right? Wow… that is the perfect example of christian compassion. It’s only 1,727,672 people that have died worldwide (according to John’s Hopkins at the moment I wrote this). it’s only the third leading cause of death in the USA after heart disease and cancer. But hey, I see what you mean, people are dying every day, what’s a few million more, right? Why should we take any measure or concern to control this – it seems you agree with Ebenezer, just let them die and decrease the surplus population.
“The annual death rate in America for 2020 will be close, but less than the annual death rates of 2019 and 2018. is 99.9%”
I love this one in particular. In other words, people are dying at a similar or lesser rate now so why worry about the 325,539 people that have died? I don’t know if these numbers your share are right, but I do know there are over 300,000 people who will never know, and millions of their relative who don’t give a flying fuck about death rates. It amazes me that a person who is supposed to be a minister teaching love and hope from their god can callously and willingly minimize death in this manner. I think Jesus had a lot to say about attitudes like this.
“ The CDC admitted in August that only 6% of the “Covid-deaths” can be attributed to the virus alone. One can discover this truth buried in the report.”
shakes head. The willful ignorance is strong in this one. So, to make this easy for you to understand, i offer an example. A person with cancer who dies in a car accident died because of the accident. And before you try to twist, let’s also use this example.. a person who has a heart attack while driving and dies after crashing into a wall was killed by the accident, not the heart attack. You can hopefully then see that a person who has cancer, but gets COVID and dies was killed COVID.
Your definition of open mindedness is rather lacking, since your definition appears to be what others should be open minded to think like you do. I will stick to using my own analytical skills and fact gathering techniques that I have used to study and learn which, in some cases, has led me to change my viewpoint when I realized it was incorrect. I don’t use research to to find ideas that already support my view like you do. I have no issue learning that I am wrong and have no sacred world view around which I must bend my facts. The same cannot be said for you, David.
Oh, by the way, perhaps you shouldn’t talk about lack of schooling when you are one who consumes any tidbit that fits your narrative. You have no desire to learn, you only look for ways to validate your beliefs. I find your lack of knowledge disturbing.
And one last thing, in the time it took to write this, John’s Hopkins now reports 1,729,166 deaths world wide. So, I suggest you drop your illogical, heartless, ignorant diatribe and go hang out with the other willfully ignorant people.
I live a block away from a major NYC hospital. A friend of mine is a nurse there. I didn’t see her from March until October because she was working nonstop. When I saw her again, I had to do a double-take: She looks at least ten years older than she did at the beginning of this year. I promised her a rain check on the biggest hug I can possibly give.
I saw the refrigerated trucks where victims’ bodies were kept. (Some are still in those trucks.) My friend was with a few of the victims during their last hours, when no one else was allowed to see them.
So, to Hoffman I say: Buddy, don’t tell me COVID-19 isn’t a real problem. Trust me, you don’t want to piss off this (or any) trans person: In doing so, you run the risk of incurring the wrath of more than one gender!
I do not expect people to treat me kindly or with respect. I street preach near a college campus and hear anything and everything. I have had many thought provoking conversations with the young people. I do not care for respect especially from the left. That wasn’t the point. It is easy to point out the hypocrisy of the IFB churches and so it is easy to point out the hypocrisy of the left who claim tolerance EXCEPT for beliefs contrary to the left. I know scores of people have been harmed by the IFB and I WAS ONE OF THEM and scores of people have been harmed by the left. I do not consider myself a fundamentalist and I do not follow their practices.
The evolutionary theory is a faith claim also. A Jesuit priest “discovered” the Big Bang. If you evolved accidentally, you are a mere product of an accidental electrical conglomeration of molecules with no meaning. You have no scientific evidence of your claims. All communists are evolutionists and it justifies the survival of the fittest.
In 2020 in Australia 1195 people died in auto accidents and 908 supposedly died from Covid and the CDC stated 6% died solely from Covid. Should Australia prohibit traveling by car to save lives? In Australia the HIV component and fetal tissue are added to the vaccine. Thirteen people have died during the experimental phase of the vaccine by Moderna. Blind followers of the media and pseudo-science are no different than blind followers of the IFB in that specific area.
Dude, you are a Fundamentalist-in-denial. You are King James-only, right? That makes you a Fundamentalist. You are a street preacher, right? That makes you a Fundamentalist. Do you repudiate the claims you made on the HAC site? If not, you are still a Fundamentalist. Almost all Evangelicals are Fundamentalists. Wear the label proudly.
http://brucegerencser.net/2020/04/evangelicals-fundamentalists/
Your 6% claim. Yes, most people don’t die solely from COVID-19. The virus exacerbates other serious health problems that people have. A friend of mine is in the hospital with COVID-19. She had all the classic symptoms, then came down with pneumonia, and then had a stroke. If she would have died, what killed her? COVID-19. If I contract the virus I am as good as dead. Why? Comorbidities.
Sorry, dude, but evolution is not a faith claim. Read a non-creationist science textbook.
You’ve said your piece. You’ve been asked to provide verifiable links for your conspiratorial claims. Please do so. If you can’t do so, we will just assume you are just another IFB preacher who makes shit up.
No, Mr. Hoffman – Evolution is real. A good definition of “theory” in the scientific sense (not the vernacular sense of the word) would be “an explanation of the causes that underlie a collection of empirical observations.” There are literally millions of observations that support the theory – which itself is in constant evolution, refined to ever-increasing precision in accordance with new discoveries and technologies.
As for meaning, if you think you need a god to find it in your life, it will never be your meaning. All you have is a second-hand “one size fits nobody” pseudo-purpose. (And what could be more meaningless than eternal life, where it’s impossible to ever reach “the point of it all”?) True meaning is individual and subjective.
The more I read from you, the more laughable your viewpoint becomes. Why would anyone want to end up like you?
Hint, Q-Anon is not a valid source for data.
The more you talk the less you make sense. Just because your original argument is revealed as illogical and baseless doesn’t mean you should counter with an even more illogical and baseless argument. Digging a hole deeper is not the right way to escape a hole.
As for tolerance…wow…do you bother to think about anything you say? I am tolerant and, while I am sure you would be shocked, I can even tolerate christians. However, I will never be tolerant of intolerant people like you. I will not tolerate racists, facists, misogynists, xenophobia and especially bigots who hide their bigotry in religion. If I were tolerate religion based bigots like you, I would be supporting intolerance. It’s called the Paradox of Intolerance.
My tolerant view is you may feel free to follow whatever god you choose and live life as you please, ibut not tell me how I must live by shaping society to support your religious viewpoint. Sure, stand on the street and speak all you want, but do not dare tell me how I should look, dress, or who I should date. I tire of christians trying to fix me when I am not broken or regulate my life when I have no desire to follow warped christian morals. I need nothing from you just as you need nothing from me. Liveyour life but leave me to live mine free from your rules and control.
So yes, I will never tolerate an intolerant religion, or any intolerant viewpoint or system, and will call you and others out who practice such intolerance. Tolerance does not mean you accept everything, because accepting intolerance only leads to less tolerance.
Also, I will call out stupid ideas like those you hold about Covid. Keeping silent may lead to people dying who believe your load of bullshit.
Mr. Hoffman, you said “We have had eight months to discern the hypocrisies, inconsistencies, and perversion of the agenda of the media. There are many doctors who have demonstrated courage against the agenda and have given an alternative and healthy approach.” I am interested in knowing more about these hypocrisies, inconsistencies and perversions. Please provide links so that I may explore same and have a better understanding of the coronavirus.
I did not read the full 50-page report you referenced, but I did read the introductory material and the Lock-Down portion of the report. In it, Rockefeller researchers engaged in an exercise of scenario planning, exploring the impact of a fictitious global pandemic in order to determine how such a scenario (and 3 other scenarios in the report) might affect the Foundation’s philanthropic goals. An interesting read, but I didn’t see it as being predictive of COVID-19. Did you read it, Mr. Hoffman?
I also read Coronavirus: 2010 document doesn’t prove pandemic was planned | wusa9.com, which debunks the idea that the report “Rockefeller document” from 2010 is evidence that the COVID-19 pandemic was pre-planned. And I checked Snopes.com, which also debunked the idea that “the COVID-19 pandemic was planned by the Rockefeller Foundation in ‘Operation Lockstep.’”
Further, I read this Politifact article – PolitiFact | Chart comparing 2020 US death toll with previous years is flawed, uses incomplete data – which details why the numbers you stated above are wrong with respect to the number of deaths for 2019 (not yet fully determined, but the provisional count is expected to be 2,855,000) and for 2020 – (already 2,728,104 as of mid-December – also a provisional number which won’t be finalized for another year). Further, “these numbers are continuously updated due to reporting lags, which the CDC says can range from one week to eight weeks or more, depending on the jurisdiction and cause of death.” So the annual death rate in 2020 is slated to be greater than that of 2019.
You stated “The CDC admitted in August that only 6% of the “Covid-deaths” can be attributed to the virus alone. One can discover this truth buried in the report.” The CDC puts out numerous reports – it would have been kind of you to provide a link to the report so I can find the “truth buried in the report.”
I’m probably more open-minded than you. I read a lot of news, mostly from sources I trust, but I will consult less-reliable sources on occasion to see what they are saying. I look for facts, especially facts I can verify from a second source. That’s actually why I’m not a Christian – too much faith requirement, not enough facts. No second source – everything loops right back to the bible.
I’m sorry your son and granddaughter caught COVID-19, and I’m glad they recovered. I am at a loss to understand why it is suspicious that your “daughter lives in Australia and her state has been shut down due to less than 75 deaths.”
Thanks for dropping by Bruce’s blog and blessing us with your wisdom. (I hope you can hear the sarcasm in that statement). Next time, please bring with you links to the reports and articles you cite.
I will give quotes from proponents of the religion of evolution.
Biologist L. Harrison Matthews wrote in the Introduction to the 1971 edition of The Origin of Species, “The fact of evolution is the backbone of biology, and biology is thus in the peculiar position of being a science founded on an unproved theory–is it then science, or a faith? Belief in the theory of evolution is thus exactly parallel to belief in special creation. Both are concepts which believers know to be true but neither, up to the present, has been capable of proof.”
George Wald, a Professor of Biology at Harvard University and a Nobel Laureate in medicine and physiology, stated in Scientific American, “The Origin of Life,” “When it comes to the origin of life there are only two possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation. There is no third way. Spontaneous generation was disproved one hundred years ago, but that leads us to only one other conclusion, that of supernatural creation. We cannot accept that on philosophical grounds; therefore, we choose to believe the impossible: that life arose spontaneously by chance!”
Professor Albert Fleischman said, “The Darwinian theory of evolution has not a single fact to confirm it in the realm of nature. It is not the result of scientific research, but purely the product of imagination.”
Professor More of the University of Chicago stated “Unfortunately for Darwin’s future reputation, everyone of his arguments is contradicted by fact.“
The full title of Charlie Darwin’s book is, “On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life.” Charlie’s only degree was a degree in theology. Laugh at these quotes. If you want to believe in a religious fairy tale, I don’t care. I don’t like religious fundamentalism either, but I also don’t like religious evolution.
I’m not laughing at the quotes, I’m laughing at you. It took me all of five minutes to debunk these quotes.
Regarding Harrison Matthews:
Regarding George Wald and Albert Fleischman (a creationist):
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/quotes/mine/part1-4.html
Charles Darwin spent literally years travelling around the world, collecting specimens and making observations. Regardless of whether he had a piece of official paper that said “Biologist,” he was a biologist. A very good one, in fact. He made meticulous observations and collected specimens and spent many years working through the data.
And over 150 years have passed since the publication of Origin of Species. Darwin wasn’t the first person to observe evolution in the natural world, nor was he the last. I do not find Wald, Fleischman or More to be persuasive – assuming that your quotations are in context and not quote-mined, that merely puts them on the minority-view side of the evolution debate (and guilty of several logical fallacies, including false dichotomy, tu quoque, and argument from incredulity).
You’ll make no sales, here, Mr. Hoffman. You believe stupid things for stupid reasons, and you obviously do care enough to continue throwing supernatural shit at the wall here, hoping that some of it will stick. Demonstrate the sincerity of that “don’t care” by shaking that dust off your sandals and walking away.
He should have ended his email at “I did not blindly follow them” and cut off everything after that. Merry Christmas, Bruce.
I forgot to add, you’re a dead ringer for Santa!
Thanks for your “rebuttal” or damage control. I will sincerely study it further. So, is that your new bible, fake science? It’s good you mustered up some energy to reply. I truly hope you are feeling better.
Science and logic disprove Darwin’s fairy tale of evolution. The first law of thermodynamics says that energy can be transformed, but it cannot be created or destroyed; therefore, the universe could not have created itself. The second law states that entropy or unavailability of energy increases with time, which means that all clocks run down. No clock creates itself and no clock is eternal; hence, a clock reveals a clockmaker. The creator determines the laws of the clock.
If you want to continue to believe the religion of evolution, I don’t care. That is your choice. If you were as critical of pseudo-science as you are the Bible, you would question the laughable theories of comedians like Bill Nye. No one has demonstrated the Maximus Bangus in the lab and no one witnessed it; therefore, it is not science or rational. Modern history shows when one believes in the evolutionary theory and consistently follows the theory as Hitler and Stalin, the law of the jungle is the survival of the fittest. Anyone who decides to violate the laws of nature and nature’s God will experience the consequences.
I find it interesting you want a life with meaning when you believe you are an accidental consequence of nature. I find it also interesting you are bitter toward the injustices of IFB when there is no justice in nature. I won’t wish you a Merry Christmas because it is a pagan holiday. I wish you an accidental life with accidental consequences of Mother Nature.
It’s laughable that he says he doesn’t believe in fundamentalism. Because he certainly acts like a fundamentalist, and is cold and mean-spirited enough.
In fact, the more I read what he says, the more I regret not telling him to just fuck off.
(wonders what she could possibly say to such an arrant asshole as David Hoffman, then just smiles quietly as she considers that simply being him is probably the worst punishment of all)
Happy 12/25 to everyone else! I’m going to celebrate this particular holiday weekend in glorious non-Christian style: Prosecco, biryani, chocolate, and non-religious holiday tunes like Vince Guaraldi’s classic “Linus and Lucy.”
Ok, at this point I am wondering if you are joking, because everything you write is so incredibly clueless that it’s hard to believe even from a fundamentalist.
I see you pick and choose the science you wish to believe based on your world view. Not surprising since you probably pick and choose the portions of your precious book that you wish to believe based on your world view. Yep, everything in the world must be viewed through the lense of defending your faith. Anything that doesn’t fit that narrative is rejected as fake.
That’s a great way to do research -decide what is right first, then find anything that can be twisted to support your view while rejecting any fact that do not support.how very open minded of you.
Unlike religion, science is science. You can’t pick and choose theories to believe. It’s all measured, through observation and experimentation.sometimes the answers are not obvious and take time to be understood. Sometimes in that process, old understanding is found to be inaccurate and replaced with new understanding. It that doesn’t invalidate the science, it just shows that it strives for a more accurate understanding.
Science isn’t about trying to prove you are right, science is about learning and growing.
The people,who read this blog regularly follow this system of study. We look at the data and come to a conclusion. We don’t need to defend our faith. In fact, if new verifiable information arrives, we look at that and use it to decide if we need to change our understanding.
I have changed my position on many things when I encountered facts that did not fit my understanding. I stopped to look at these new facts so I could make sure I understood things as they are and change my views where needed to fit the facts.
You cannot grow if you make everything fit your world view. If you have never had anything that challenged your world view and made you rethink then you are living in ignorance. And ignorance is the hallmark of conservative christian thought.
Oh David Hoffman, please! You dismiss one of the most significant discoveries in the history of science, the theory (please don’t misunderstand the word ‘theory’ in this context) of evolution, referring to it as a fairytale, and yet are a super spokesman for the bible, a set of texts that (outside of bible schools) is regarded as, at best, folklore, and at the other end of the spectrum, pure fiction. You have no idea what the second law of thermodynamics is, why you are wrong to invoke it in this way, nor even realise that it was debunked as an objection to the theories you criticise long ago.
Your comments are nothing more than the propaganda of the ignorant. Even your use of the word ‘left’ to summarily dismiss the views of those with whom you politically disagree, is intellectually lazy. It allows you the dubious privilege of not needing to argue points of view that, on the whole, prefer reason to ideology. Bringing Hitler and Stalin into discussions actually undermine your entire case. You don’t understand. Both Hitler and Stalin are supreme examples of the massive dangers of religious belief: iconic leaders with powerful oratorical abilities, times of hardship for the populace, a credulous population, a minority that attracts sufficient hate that all blame can readily be attached to them.
Your views on the pandemic are nothing short of pathetic. The media, especially in the US, can be pretty poor, and like all things one is told must be filtered through a strainer of reason. So ignore the media (except where you are able actually to exercise discernment), and look at statistics provided by the likes of the CDC or John Hopkins university. Look at excess deaths, those over and above the numbers exceeding the average for the year. You’ll see that it’s way above average, off the scale : “ for example, the US suffered some 275,000 more deaths than the five-year average between 1 March and 16 August…” (source available if you are interested).
You know, maybe I could accept the possibility that you didn’t realize that the George Wald quote (among others) was A) a false representation of the man’s views and B) not actually a good argument even if he did believe it, however this:
“Science and logic disprove Darwin’s fairy tale of evolution.”
…as well as many of the other statements you made are arguments made in bad faith. Sorry, if I’m not being specific enough, I mean that you knew the statement was not true, and deliberately made it anyway in the hopes of insulting or deceiving others. I neither believe nor trust you, David.
Now, the funny thing about all this is that if you are going to argue in bad faith, then what good is hearing about your faith at all? Seems like I’d hear at least as honest opinion about what God wants from Satan than I would from David Hoffman. Not that either “God” or “Satan” actually seems to say or do much that can be verified, mind you.
Oh, and I guess I won’t wish you a Merry Christmas either. In fact, I curse you. David Hoffman, may your every attempt to lie and cheat another human being fail miserably. May every person you interact with realize the falseness of the arguments which you put forth, and treat you accordingly.
Come to think of it, that’s more like blessing the people whom David interacts with. Not that blessings or curses really work, but in this case wouldn’t it be nice if it did?
In order for a curse to work, the person on the receiving end has to believe it, or at least fear it enough that his unconscious mind acts upon it. No supernatural element required, just dirty-pool psychology and a way with words.
But as I insinuated above, Hoffman is his own curse.
(waves to any members of Hoffman’s congregation who may be lurking in the thread)
Oops, you caught me Astreja. Yeah, I was trying to insinuate to David that even the people who he had successfully fooled might one day wise up to him, and that he’d then have to deal with the fallout. Then again, given that he seems to be the type of person who’d repeat bald-faced lies to a group of people who already know better, it’s doubtful that he’d even care. I do agree with you on the nature of people like that.
Anyway, enough of that. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, etc. etc. to you and all of the other decent people here!
Bruce has chosen to leave Christianity for the imaginary world of atheism and evolution – no God, no Jesus, no Bible, no morals, no genders, no science, no truth, no lies, no clothes, no justice and there should be no bitterness, no complaining, no offenses, and no self-pity. Rational thoughts are accidental electrical impulses within the tissue of the brain. Thoughts are rational because one imagines them to be.
When my rooster mounts and rapes a hen, there is no complaint from the other hens. There is no justice, no adultery, no theft, no crime – just a pecking order. Chickens peck by brute force weaker chickens until submission. This is why the responses to my comments are bully tactics and emotional diatribes. When a chicken dies, there is no remorse and no funeral. In the evolutionary faith this would be normal behavior for the higher evolved animals, men and women. If man evolved from a monkey, a consistent evolutionist will strip naked and walk around like animals do with no shame. Dare I say it, God killed an animal and made clothes for Adam and Eve. Bibliaphobia is a debilitating disease. Animals do not naturally wear clothes.
Sage (imaginary high opinion of himself, herself, theyself, itself) wrote in pertinent part, “…science is science. You can’t pick and choose theories to believe. It’s all measured, through observation and experimentation.” I agree. Georges Lemaître, a Belgian Catholic priest, proposed the theory of the Big Bang or maximus bangus. I wonder if Sage personally observed this theory or demonstrated it by experimentation or did Sage accept it by faith or believe it through the claims of others?
A couple months ago I purchased male and female plumbing parts. After the man set the products on the counter, I jokingly asked if he had any transgender plumbing parts. He smiled at the insanity. When two females or males imagine they are married, one will be the butch or bully and the other will be the queen or submissive one. No one can get away from the influence of the Bible and biology, male and female. Everyone agrees with the Bible to some extent. Does Astreja know he, she, they, or them offered advice from the Bible when he, she, they, or them stated, “…by shaking the dust off your sandals and walking away.” It’s been fun.
Assholes are treated accordingly on this site. Ask yourself, David, does your behavior and words emulate Jesus? Would anyone want to become a Christian based on what you have written?
That you think “A couple months ago I purchased male and female plumbing parts. After the man set the products on the counter, I jokingly asked if he had any transgender plumbing parts” is funny speaks volumes about you David. Typical IFB pastor, obsessed with sex, yet likely has secrets buried deep in his closet. Protest all you want, but those who scream (preach) the loudest about who is fucking whom, when, where, why, and how usually have secrets they are hiding.
I won’t approve any further comments from you (read the commenting rules). Perhaps when you are ready to have honest discussions about the nature of the Bible, why people leave Christianity, atheism, and the like, I’ll let you comment again.
Mr. Hoffman—I’ll admit that it’s been a while since I’ve read Darwin’s work. One thing that stuck with me, though, is this: Darwin never, ever said that the species that adapt and survive somehow “deserve” to live more than those that die off.
So there is nothing in it that denies the dignity of humans, or any other species. So your argument that fidelity to the theory of evolution is a rabbit hole to fascism and eugenics doesn’t hold up. Certainly, awful people have used Darwin’s work to rationalize awful things. (How many twelve- and thirteen-year old boys get the comic book version of Darwin in their science classes, then go out and beat somebody up while chanting “Survival of the fittest!”?)
It’s really no different from how the Bible has been used to justify enslaving and killing people. Well, actually, there is a difference: There is lots of empirical evidence to support the theory of evolution. Any scientist worthy of the title understands what that means: The theory might be disproved one day, but for now, it’s the best we can do with the evidence at hand—and, so far, it’s proved to be a sound foundation for other work.
The Bible—or any other “holy” text, for that matter—does not have such empirical underpinnings. You can believe in creation, the fall and the flood, but no evidence has been found to corroborate it. Likewise, laws that allow divorce, abortion and equal rights and pay for people regardless of race, gender identity and expression or, ahem, religion or lack thereof are based on empirical understanding of human beings. (It’s not about being “liberal.”) The laws in Leviticus, on the other hand, are of unknown provenance: You believe that a man who lies with a man as with a woman or a young person who rebels against his or her parents should be put to death because you believe (the operative word here) such punishments were mandated by a god in whom you believe—but for whom there is no physical (and I emphasize physical) evidence.
Oh, by the way, if you ever want to see transgender parts, I can show them to you!
David Hoffman: “Does Astreja know he, she, they, or them offered advice from the Bible when he, she, they, or them stated, “…by shaking the dust off your sandals and walking away.”
Of course I know where that line came from, you asshole! I chose the line deliberately, because you’re so blatantly violating it. The Bible clearly tells you what to do when someone rejects your message, but apparently you’re more in love with the sound of your own voice than with the teachings of Jesus.
If your god actually existed and wanted to tell us something, why would it need someone like you, mortal?
David Hoffman, do you understand what intersex is and acknowledge the existence of people with conditions such as XXX or XXY chromosome disorders? If you’re ignorant of the matter, that’s fine. All I’d like to suggest to you then is that your understanding of human sexuality is lacking, limited by the indoctrination imposed upon you by your tribe. Perhaps you should take the time to do more thorough, honest research on the matter, including on related topics such as transgender, and on LGBTIQ more generally. The world is not as simple as the trite bible-based understanding that you’ve put forth.
On the other hand, if you would continue to deny that such people exist, then all you’re doing is confirming my opinion that you are just another liar, or that perhaps that your “faith” is more important to you than understanding reality, including that of “God” itself. In which case, you really do not have anything of value to say about “God”, and you’re welcome to guess where I think you should stick that graven paper idol of yours.
(I mean really, what’s next? You going to go around denying that people with Autism don’t exist, either? Or people with various other genetic conditions? If your tribe told you that homeless orphans don’t actually exist, would you go around repeating that bullshit too? Think about what you’re really doing for a second, here.)
So, Dave, haven’t dug that whole deep enough yet?
That was your grandest display of willful ignorance to date. Quite impressive.
If you feel I have been dismissive, belittling, and insulting then you were astute enough to figure that out.I use that technique when people,spew illogical, irrational bullshit but pretend it is well thought, and refuse to accept facts.
I don’t claim to be all knowing like your god, but I knew that it would come to this…. “ Sage (imaginary high opinion of himself, herself, theyself, itself) …”. First, your hateful, dark soul and gender phobia are now very obvious. Surely you know the term it or itself is a slur, yet you choose to use this slur… once again a great show of christian love. But it’s so common when a person has such a weak understanding of their faith or science that they get angry during lash out. I know you meant it to be hurtful, sadly for you, it fails.
It actually made me shake my head and laugh because, not only was it predictable, but such a hateful diatribe was spewed out on the day you celebrate the birth of your savior. How ironic you should spew hate on the birthday of the man who was decidedly not hateful. That’s a merry Christmas for you. You might be getting visits from 3 ghosts soon.
Not that it’s your business, it I am enby and bi. You will have to google that if you need details. I live my life proudly and in the open.
As for my name, Sage has more than one meaning – a smart person, a plant, or a color. Had you bothered to ask, which is generally considered to be smarter and safer than assuming, you would have found my name reference the color sage, a color I happen to like. There is also a deeper meaning to my name which you will never know because you have not earned that right.
Overall, I would say your response shows exactly who you were, a bigoted, self righteous, pompous, hateful, angry, willfully ignorant person with delusions of grandeur. Great qualities for a minister.
As for the rest of your rant, it’s so meaningless that it needs and deserves no response.
Dave is just a complete asshole dressing up his assholery in religion. He’s perfectly happy to ignore the parts of the Bible that says “love your neighbor as yourself” because hey, him being cold and nasty is love, right? Also the parts about separating the sheep and goats, and the goats “followed” the Lord but were cold, cruel and uncaring to the vulnerable. That makes Dave a goat whether he would admit it or not. I bet most of his co-religionists know he’s a goat, too.
David Hoffman: “He smiled at the insanity.”
Zoe: I imagine he did. Poor guy had to listen to you.
David Hoffman: “When two females or males imagine they are married, one will be the butch or bully and the other will be the queen or submissive one.”
Zoe: So which one are you David?
Step down from the seat of Moses, David.
Zoe, and really, he doesn’t have a clue. My lesbian sisters-in-law both dress casually and have short hair. One is a UU minister, a degree she attained after a lifetime as a climate scientist. Other sister-in-law is a retired engineer. HOWEVER, they live in Oregon and have joked that all women dress that way there, short hair, comfy shoes and usually pants. On the other hand, they told me there is a culture of lipstick lezzies in the gay/lesbian culture, who are big into the hair, makeup, high heels etc. David is really ignorant to pigeonhole entire groups of people. And both my sisters-in-law have done more for the world than him, on top of it! Gay married scientist/ministers/engineers! Ha.