Today, I received two identical emails from an Evangelical man named Tom Barker. Evidently, his “message” from Jesus is so important that I need to read it twice. My response is indented and italicized. (All grammar and spelling in the original.)
There is a major TRUTH that needs to be addressed here. People like Bruce Gerencser and others who call themselves “atheists” are really either Anti-theists and/or Anti-Christians.
Would it matter if I said that I am not an anti-theist or anti-Christian? Would it matter that scores of Christians read my writing? Of course not. Barker has determined, without evidence, that I hate Christians. Evidently, any critique of Christianity is considered hate.
Yes a combination of Satan the world and yourself and possibly another misguided human source has convinced you that “There is no God”. “No God or gods of any kind”.
Barker seems unable to understand the difference between “there is no God (s)” and “there is no evidence for the existence of God.” I am an agnostic atheist. I have concluded, based on the evidence at hand, that the Christian deity is a work of fiction. The same goes for the God of Islam, Judaism, and Mormonism. That said, If Barker has compelling new evidence for his peculiar God’s existence, I am willing to listen. Further, since I don’t know everything, it is within the realm of possibility for me, that a god currently unknown to us might one day make itself known. Thus, I am agnostic on the God question.
I call myself an atheist because I live my life as if there is no God (not in denial, but because I see no evidence of a deity’s existence). The only time I think about God is when I write for this blog. It’s really that simple.
If Barker wants me to think differently, I suggest he convince me with good evidence that his God exists. Of course, Barker can’t do that, as this email clearly shows.
But there is a difference between “atheism and Anti-Christianity
Yes, there is. Have I ever said otherwise? As readers shall see in a moment, Barker’s g-string is tightly wedge in his ass over a meme I posted on my Facebook page.
And what the Facebook page “life and times of Bruce Gerencser” is preaching is ANTI-CHRISTIANITY! I have been on mission in parts of the United States like Seattle and NYC and I have met atheists there they have no exposure to the gospel at all 😭. One guy even said he is a 4th generation atheist. He was not going on Facebook making snide comments about the Bible and the gospel. He was not going on Facebook with snotty little memes making fun of Old Testament scriptures that he knew absolutely nothing about!
Would it be impolite of me to say that Barker sounds like a whiny little bitch? How dare I make snide comments about the Bible and the gospel! Besides, I evidently don’t know anything about the Old Testament. 🙂 While I don’t know everything about the Bible, I suspect that my knowledge exceeds that of Barker. Consider the gauntlet thrown down, Mr. Barker. Let’s have a Bible Knowledge fight. Are you up for the fight? Time to put your KJV where your mouth is.
LATOBG does that! And I have several examples of anyone wants to see them.
LATOBG. Damn, a new acronym. 🙂 For readers who may not know, I have a Facebook page. I post links to my writing there, along with memes and occasional comments about things I have read on the Internet. My page is not a secret. By all means, check it out and click LIKE while you are there.
If you and the fellow bloggers and Fb friends were true blue atheists you wouldn’t be making anti-Christian posts and comments.
If what Barker says is true, would it not also mean that if he was a true-red Christian, he wouldn’t be making anti-atheist posts and comments? Sorry, Tom, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
What Barker is doing here is called tone trolling. Wikipedia defines tone trolling this way:
Tone policing (also tone trolling, tone argument, and tone fallacy) is an ad hominem (personal attack) and anti-debate tactic based on criticizing a person for expressing emotion. Tone policing detracts from the validity of a statement by attacking the tone in which it was presented rather than the message itself.
Instead of engaging my writing using good arguments, Barker’s fee-fees are hurt by what I say or the memes I post. Barker might want to peruse Christian blogs, websites, and social media pages. Anti-atheist content abounds. If I was butt-hurt every time an Evangelical posted a meme or blog post about atheists, why I would need constant applications of Vaseline just to sit down.
Memo to the Tom Barkers of the world: if what atheists write really chaps your asses, don’t read it. Problem solved.
And there is no way anyone can go into the light of Jesus Christ and then turn around and embrace the satanic darkness of unbelief ! Sad that someone can preach God’s Word and still have been lost all that time. 😭
Ah, now we get to Barker’s real issue with me. He can’t square my story with his theology, so he must come up with some way to discredit me. Thus, I was never a Christian. I was a “lost” preacher. Thousands of congregants and fellow colleagues in the ministry — all allegedly filled with the Holy Spirit — heard me preach and witnessed my life, yet none of them “discerned” that I was lost; that I was a fake Christian; that I never knew Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Amazing, right? I must have been more cunning and deceptive than Satan himself.
I strongly encourage you and anyone reading this to look up men like Lee Strobel and James Warner Wallace and Howard Storm. All were atheists who came to salvation through Christ Jesus!
I read all three of these authors. Color me not impressed. I watched a video several days ago of James Warner Wallace saying that the God of the Bible never committed genocide. And if he did, he repeatedly warned them about their false worship before he killed them. And, besides, he didn’t kill everyone, so it really wasn’t a genocide. Is this the best Evangelicalism has to offer?
Howard Storm actually had a vision of hell being dragged into it by demons!
And I had a “vision” of me and Pamela Anderson having sex. It didn’t happen, and neither did Storm’s vision of being dragged to Hell by demons. Before I believe such a story, Barker (and Storm) must provide evidence for the existence of Hell and demons. Of course, Barker can’t do that. All he has is the Bible and personal testimonies. Try harder, Tom, try harder.
Jesus Christ loves you all of you! He suffered and died and rose again to give you eternal life in heaven. Admit you are a sinner Believe sincerely that Jesus Christ died and rose again Trust and receive him now.
How does Barker know Jesus loves ALL of us? What if we are apostates or reprobates? What if we are not elect? This idea that Jesus loves everyone cannot be scripturally supported. Besides, Jesus is dead. Why should any of us care if a dead man “loves” us? Imagine if I traversed the blogosphere telling people that Napoleon loves them? Who gives a fuck? Napoleon is dead.
Pray“LORD Jesus I know I am a sinner lost and I need you. Please forgive me and save me pull me from the sewers of unbelief and into your saving grace I believe you died and rose again I trust and accept you now thank you for loving me forgiving me and saving me in Jesus name Amen”
Okay, I just prayed this prayer. I am now saved and guaranteed a home in Heaven after I die. Woo! Hoo!
What a truncated, powerless gospel Baker preaches. In my Calvinistic days, we called such a gospel decisional regeneration — the belief that salvation is secured by saying and believing the right words. This is the gospel preached by most Evangelical preachers. It is a gospel of “right beliefs” instead of “right living.” Long before I became an atheist, I rejected this gospel. The Bible is clear, “without holiness no man shall see the Lord” and “faith without works is dead.” If Christianity has no power to transform, it’s worthless; it’s little more than a social club. I may be an atheist, but I might be inclined to admire a religion that took seriously practicing love, kindness, compassion, and loving your neighbor as yourself. I doubt I would become a believer, but I might say, “good job, Christians, good job.”
There is a promise that will come to pass. One day every human ever conceived will appear before Jesus Christ and will confess him as Lord. All who have trusted in him alone for eternal life and forgiveness of sins through his death and resurrection will embrace him as LORD in adoration and thanksgiving! Those who died too young to accept him including the millions murdered in the womb will also appear in a glorified body and embrace him in adoration and thanksgiving! Those who rejected him will bow and confess him as LORD in despair and regret for the decision to reject his grace and mercy and chose to pay for their own sins in the lake of fire. 😭😭 (and YES! It is very real!)
Ah yes, we can’t have an email from an Evangelical without a threat of judgment and Hell. Does this ever work with atheists? Nope, but evidently Barker never got the memo.
in short as we head into the heart of July all atheists agnostics Anti-Christians,Muslims,Jehovah witnesses , Mormons and many others who have flat rejected Christ’s grace and/or tried to earn their salvation through “religion” and good works one day will wish they were all at a water park!
In other words, everyone is going to Hell except Barker and those who believe like him. He and “Dr.” David Tee (theologyarcheology), along with Daniel Kluver will have Heaven all to themselves. Heaven will be a zoo no one wants to visit.
God bless
In other words, fuck you, Bruce. I hope you burn in Hell.
If Heaven is filled with Tom Barkers, give me Hell every time. Fortunately, Barker and I are headed to the same place — the grave. See ya there, Tom. 🙂
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Connect with me on social media:
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.
Dear Tom Barker,
Bless your heart!
Hey, Tom – did you know that the Sinner’s Prayer is the real Mark of the Beast? To say those words is a craven act that demeans your humanity.
I trust that any real gods out there would be much more sensible and mature than the vicious-minded sod in the Bible, who can’t forgive without a blood sacrifice and who, despite its alleged omnipotence, gets its undies in a knot when dealing with particularly uppity humans.
I am not anti-Christian, I am against the harm that Christianity does. For me that is abuse and exploitation of other Christians and it is predominantly in evangelical circles. Evangelical Christians in my experience are some of the most uncaring and indeed un-Christian people (at the very least in the colloquial sense) I have known. Christians are exploited financially, emotionally, even physically. Their time and talent is used up and they are measured not as people with inherent worth, but in terms of what can they contribute to making the Pastor and the church look good. So people with money, people good at manual repair work, people with families are given priority while the rest are tolerated.
I’m also against Pastors thinking they know everything and refer to secular subjects like psychology, medicine as ‘of the devil’. This is their ignorance and arrogance.
I’m against Christians who tell other people how to live their lives through social and political pressure, rather than just living their own life.
Lastly and leastly, however still important, I’m against Christians who twist science and intentionally ignore it in order to fit into a biblical narrative. I’ve nothing wrong with faith, but it’s dishonest to willingly and knowingly misrepresent facts. Why not just say, yes the evidence suggests this but by faith I believe anyway? Or I simply like breakfast club with some of the guys at church, it gets me out of the house. Being honest is the Christian thing, is it not? So please don’t mess with vulnerable people.
Hi William, your last point with regards to faith and evidence reminds me of an experience I had at a Christian conference.
One Christian cosmologist was talking about the field’s current understanding of the universe. And how our mathematical description of the universe is just that, a description. We might not ever be able to correctly describe everything “as it is”. In the following Q&A session, a rather annoyed member of the audience questioned the cosmologist’s view because it seemed to run counter to the Thomistic/essentialist view of the universe. And apparently it was a serious issue because the scientist had overstepped their authority by (supposedly) making an incorrect theological statement.
Dear Tom Barker:
GTF away and leave Bruce and the rest of us happy atheists alone.
Sincerely,
DoctorDJ
Tom Barker sent me the following comment:
Sadly friend from the looks of your response you were likely preaching a works salvation 😭
5 point Calvinism is another ugly satanic lie on the same liner as atheism.
No one can be saved by “right living”
“For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” Romans 3:23
Sin means to miss the mark.
All of us have missed the mark and only can be saved by the grace of God through his Son Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ is ALIVE! There is more proof and scientific archeological evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ of Nazareth than there is for the whole life of Julius Caesar.
It cannot be denied and even agnostic and 🤨 archeologists will tell you this.
People enjoy their sin too much and don’t want there to be “enough evidence” or ANY evidence!
Another thing an atheist is is someone who is going through life with their eyes closed and ears plugged screaming at the top of their lungs “THERE IS NO GOD!!” When deep down they know good and well there is and are hoping he will admit them to heaven based on their human works and ignore their many MANY sins and a lifetime of mocking and rejecting Jesus Christ.
How did you get to this point ?
When you professed to be a Christian what would you have said to an atheist? And if you were as faithful in witnessing and evangelism at the time you had to have encountered some.
And I’m not “butt hurt”. It’s just the internet FB, TWITTER and such are filled with pages of “atheists” running down the gospel and God.
Why don’t atheists run down Santa Claus and his elves and the tooth fairy and Allah and Buddha ,etc. they are just as fictional and as much a fantasy as you believe Jesus Christ to be?!
That’s what I don’t understand.
Another truth:
Satan doesn’t care if the lost world talks about RELIGION.
He hates it when someone shares the gospel of Jesus Christ! His enemy! And the only one who can bring salvation.
I wasn’t always a Calvinist.
How did I get to this point? Skepticism, reason, and intellectual inquiry. Barker needs to put down his Bible and actually read a book — say one of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books.
What Barker doesn’t understand is my story and atheism in general.
Barker is just another butt-hurt Evangelical with a persecution complex. Keep preaching your gospel, Tom. You are doing more to advance the cause of atheism than I ever could. Thanks!
Oh but bruce, how could they be skeptical and ask questions when their precious religion tells them its a attack from.the devil. So basically its follow without questioning, why they cant see the deceit is what i i dont know. And apparently its ok for them to criticize confidently other belief systems. Doesn’t he know hes anti-allah, anti-budda, anti-mormon, anti-….etc. sure he does, he doesn’t care, he believes so much that its ok to hate all these religions. But its anti-christian? well no no, You shouldn’t talk. And this community as well as the head is majorly ex Christian, thats why we deal with issues relating to that. They’re plenty for muslims and other religions too if you look for them. Asshole
We all know the Gospel. Now we know that salvation is of the heart so if you really believe you are a sinner then the result is there will be a change in your life. That’s the problem, reciting the sinners prayer without conviction is just ‘praying in vain’. Evangelicals by the vast majority do not show any fruit of salvation, and it is through their works that we know them.
You see, I and many here know the bible very well. You had imo an opportunity to intelligently address the points raised in this thread, instead you just copy pasted stuff. Sadly, a wasted opportunity yet again for an evangelical to address things thoughtfully.
I think a lot of Calvinist theologians would beg to differ with that statement. One hyper-Calvinist commenter I came across years ago said that, in the sight of (his version of the Christian) God, a hymn-singing Arminian (heterosexual) couple sitting on the pew is as repulsive as a gay couple drinking in a bar.
This is the thing about Christian soteriology (and theology in general): almost everyone has their own version which damns the others for their incorrect views.
As I read somewhere else, the best arguments against Sola Scriptura (and decisional regeneration) come from Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, not atheists and Muslims.
As for the life and resurrection of Jesus being more attested to by archeology than the life of Julius Caesar: probably Tom had meant Alexander the Great? Lee Strobel advances this argument in his book, if I’m not mistaken.
First, we have coins bearing the name of Alexander the Great.
Secondly, even if it was meant to be Caesar: we also have coins bearing the image of Julius Caesar. Moreover, Caesar Augustus mentioned in the Gospel’s was Caesar’s adopted son. Contrary to what Tom was implying, I’m pretty sure Julius Caesar’s existence is well-evidenced.
And yes, on the internet I’ve come across many ex-Muslims, too. Naturally, they focus their attention and arguments against Islam because it is the religion that holds a dominant influence in their societies and families. And they are also asked, numerous times, to stop slandering the religion (even though the believers can’t return the favour). I think a lot of the atheists on this blog come from a Christian society and so the same reasoning applies.
Even among Calvinists there are debates over the finer aspects of soteriology. One need to only sit through debates on “duty faith” or “does faith precede regeneration” to learn that no hair is too small for Calvinists to split.
I used to attend a monthly pastor’s clinic in Mansfield, Ohio (90 minutes away from where I lived). The clinic was attended primarily by Reformed Baptists, Sovereign Grace Baptists, and generic Calvinistic Baptists. Oh the debates we had over this or that minute point of theology. Not much different than a group of middle school boys arguing about who can pee the farthest (yes, I was one of those boys). 😂
Indeed, Bruce. Even Calvinists are well-aware of the issue: https://frame-poythress.org/machens-warrior-children/
Yes, and the same boys would argue about whose Dad is “the biggest” and “the strongest”.
Ah, the old chestnut, comparing evidence for Jesus with evidence for Julius Caesar. Well let’s see, there are Roman coins that have been excavated that contain the head of Julius Caesar (and other Caesars), together with inscriptions, yet none for Jesus. Strange? Oh, and that’s only evidence for Jesus even existing, which is very much in doubt. The resurrection has no evidence at all in support, and is in fact quite clearly entirely fictional.
Why should we believe the superstitious claims of a person who can’t even check the evidence?
And Julius Caesar has writings that we can still read today. The best Jesus could manage was a few scribbles in the dirt. 😀
Tom’s last name is Barker, not Baker — as in carnival barker. 😂 Sorry for the error. The post has been corrected.
sigh of relief I was worried that Doctor Who #4 had gone rogue on us.
Never!
Lee Strobel and Warner Wallace were never atheists. It’s perfectly clear from the mindset that emerges through their writings. At best they were possibly hovering on the edges of belief, perhaps giving it little actual consideration. Howard Storm appears similar to Eben Alexander, his claims being either entirely delusional or, more probably, ‘profitable mendacity’.
“Profitable mendacity.” I’ve got to remember that one. 😂
With the subject line of sad, Barker sent me the following email:
I won’t bother you again.
Sad that your mind is made up. Most antitheistic atheists have long made their beds in hell.
Not one of us are guaranteed the next minute.
Id also suggest backing away from the table!
I hope your heart is convicted and you come to true salvation in Christ.
Blessings
Barker, by the way, deleted his email account (or blocked me), so he didn’t receive my reply.
I told him:
You, Mr. Barker, are a fucking asshole.
Had you bothered to read my story, you would have learned that I was diagnosed with an incurable disease called gastroparesis last year; that I have lost 120 pounds; that I have no appetite; that I frequently vomit. Thus, your “backing away from the table” comment is rude, insensitive, un-Christ like, and un-Christian. You are just another asshole for Jesus.
What in your emails would lead me back to Jesus? Answer? Nothing. You are a sorry excuse for a human being and even a worse excuse for a Christian. Most of the atheists I know are better Christians than you.
Bruce Gerencser
I often wonder why this evangelical personality type don’t trust their Lord to do the saving?
His constant attempts with you are in fact a “works salvation.” He just keeps working and working and working.
“I often wonder why this evangelical personality type don’t trust their Lord to do the saving?”
It seems to me that people like Mr. Tom Barker relish in being the hero of their own story. Hence, Barker finds it irresistible to position / elevate himself above his savior. Kind of like: “Jesus called me to help him. He couldn’t save this particular soul without me.”
Yes. It’s all about him instead of Him.
Bruce,
I can provide really (really) good evidence for the existence of you, Pamela Anderson, and sex.
That gets you to third base.
Maybe you could bunt yourself home!
xox
Tom is just one more twit and liar for christ.
“If you and the fellow bloggers and Fb friends were true blue atheists you wouldn’t be making anti-Christian posts and comments. ”
Nope, since I am a true blue atheist I find it necessary to point out the lies of Christians and their failure since those lies do real harm. My blog does this and when I have time I point those lies out on Facebook (and often get a time out, like now) and on Youtube.
Ah, the predictable threat of hell. Let’s throw in an anti-abortion statement for good measure too!
Actually, I wish the dude had stuck around to show us all the archaeological evidence he has for Jesus’ resurrection. So much great, beautiful evidence! Sounds like a Trump or Giuliani or My Pillow Guy comment….
Atheist and Anti-theist are two different things, though many atheists are to some degree antitheists. The problem with theism, is that it exhibits an entire syndrome of pernicious cultural effects. The mixture of church and state is another of these effects, though not all theists are inclined to do this, it is often more accepted.
And seriously, a fat atheist comment? Amazing to see the Christian love ooze from every pore.
Tom Barker is your generic,garden variety Anglo- Fundagelical. Most likely,again from the Deep South. He tells himself- and others- that you preached a ” works- based salvation,” ignoring the fact that you didn’t do that at all. Yeah, the IFB has church standards, as a culture, but it wasn’t a substitute for the salvation experience ! What a shame that Southern Gothic Fundagelical culture dominates U.S. Christianity !! People, especially kids and millennials, are fleeing their parent’s churches in droves. Even if you don’t dump your faith, you dump those crazy, crappy churches and their many teachings. Yes, it sure looks like Barker is barking at the choir,seeing as most commenters have been through the above already. William, you put these issues so we’ll, and this is tragic in itself( Tom Barker, are you seeing this ?). Astreja, that was perfect😆😆
Conservapedia has a wiki on fat atheists. I am mentioned in the article. Only time I’ll ever be mentioned in the same article with Christopher Hitchens, Dan Dennett, and Matt Dillahunty. 😂
https://conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_obesity
Dear heavens, that is such a rude and inappropriate entry! But what do you expect from Conservapedia. Such a paragon of “Christian love” (which is, by the way, only relevant to liberal wussies /s).
Also, I have a hunch that the Mormons are by far the healthiest – no smoking, no caffeine – when compared with Evangelicals and other Christian denominations. Does that mean Mormons are the True Christians?
You’re in awesome company, Bruce. I’m impressed. (Seriously, I am and those Conservapedia dipshits are purely nuts.)
Oh good grief! Is that site for real? WTF is conservapedia anyway? Conserve a pedophile is probably more appropriate.
Conservapedia is brain dead child of Phyllis Schlafly’s son, Andrew. Sadly, it’s “real.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Schlafly
Ah he’s gone without even attempting to address thoughtful decent comments, of course, another evangelical who likes ‘hard preachin’, in other words, he gets to say whatever he wants and how dare you have an opinion.
I guess if he’s gone, I don’t have to consider his feelings? Not sure why we should, since he was rude and condescending. Not ONE. OF. THESE. TYPES. ever comes to your blog to try to share a positive Christian experience. Reading their comments over the last few years helped me to further separate myself from the idea that I was a Christian. I wasn’t, but I expressed my beliefs funneled through Christianity. I do have some lovely Christian friends who might be concerned over my salvation, but not one of them has tried to prod me to change. But people like Barker are part of actively driving people from their god. And I think it’s okay with them, as they can feel superior and proud they are going to heaven while we are going to burn.
Conservapedia, eh ? I’ll have to look at that site. Sounds like a strange one, in any case.
😂, bruce was right. The more you read these people’s articles, the deeper you go into atheism. I still wonder how these people can’t see it, they have the right to condemn other beliefs, religions, gods, people but when the tables turn…ANTI-CHRIST!! 😂😂. Well, baker or barker, sorry no one has the time to even think about your religion, incase that’s what you think we do all day. Of course, we know you have the divine power to point out exactly what goes on in our minds, but hey I’m sorry to break it to ya but ya wrong. Right in front of our eyes you bashed mormoms, Catholics, muslims, atheists, other gods cause you hold zero regard for them, i spit on your face you disgusting creature. Does it pain you that not only the christians go on evangelism these days? 😂, Well i thought you wouldn’t mind some competition. Of course, its always the same procedure for you people,
– lets judge them, tell them you they know they’re wrong but are in denial
– lets quietly attack theor personalities, call them hateful people
– lets threaten them, hell is pretty scary
– of course, the cherry on top, lets say im praying for u
😂. You know what, i actually dream of the day when one of you would come here and present the evidence you so much claim to have for the existence of your god, not just saying there is enough evidence. We atheists being evidence for our claims, not just claiming to have evidence but of course its the opposite for you.
Dear, dreams/visions are not evidence, I’m a teenager, having wet dreams night after night, gee i wonder what message im getting lol. The way you chose to ignore the fact that many also had spiritual experiences that lead to their deconversion, i recently read some on ex christian.net and i was surprised.
Ok, i know your problem, the atheists are not how they used to be before right. You desperately want atheists to be people who have no knowledge of the bible so that you can base your claims on “misinterpretation” of your book. Sorry, we grew up 😂. Im tired of talking, have a nice day. (Its my way of saying I’ll pray for you)