Yesterday, I responded to a comment from an Evangelical man named Donald. Based on the server logs, he read all of one Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) related post. You can read my response here.
Today, Donald sent me an email response to my post. Here’s what he had to say:
Thanks for the response. You are correct in that I do try to convince others to trust Christ. The reason being I believe it’s the way to heaven. What’s your reasoning for your hindering those who may otherwise trust Jesus. I have an agenda based on what I consider fact. If I’m wrong so what because according to you there is no hope. Why so critical of something that doesn’t exist? I have a reason, a belief in something that I believe will help them. There is absolutely your right to not believe. Why so sarcastic towards those that do? Why do those that follow you seem so eager to mock those that believe in something they don’t? I have no doubt that you know everything I could say in rebuttal to your claim God doesn’t exist. Let me tell you, I know what you would say to me as well. The difference is unlike some your responders I will not disparage what they believe in. I’m not angry, bitter, frustrated or aggravated in your or others silliness. I am sad.
To provide context for readers who may not have read Donald’s first comment and my response. here’s the text of his comment:
What caused you to be so bitter? I can somewhat understand your disdain for religion but why the effort to destroy something you don’t believe is real. Why fight so hard? Why not just let people believe as they will? I don’t spend anytime attempting to convince people that Bigfoot doesn’t exist, their belief is not a threat to me. Again ,why the effort to discredit?
As you can see, Donald’s opening salvo was to attack my character; that I am motivated by bitterness. He could have interacted with the post he commented on, Why Do People Attend Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) Churches? Instead, he decided to go after me personally. Such ill behavior is not uncommon. Over the past fourteen years, I have received thousands of emails, social media messages, and blog comments from the Donalds of the world. While I wish Evangelicals would actually respond to what I write, I know many Christians find my story troubling or threatening, and their answer is to attack the messenger instead of responding to his message.
Donald is convinced that I am driven by “bitterness.” I responded:
What makes you think I am bitter? Because my beliefs are different from yours? Because I think your God is a fictional being? Because I think the Bible is an errant, fallible book littered with mistakes and contradictions? Because I think the universe is 14 billion years old, and God had nothing to do with its formation? Or is it because my moral and ethical beliefs upset you? Or maybe, you just don’t like sexy, hot men with white beards and bald heads? What is the real reason, Donald, you think I am bitter? Or is this just a word you use to disparage and dismiss anyone different from you?Would it matter to you if I told you that I don’t have a bitter bone in my body? Just ask my wife of 43 years, my six adult children, my editor, or my counselor. Bitterness is simply not part of my DNA. I am a pragmatic realist. I accept things as they are. I think you will search high and low and come away empty for one post that remotely suggests I am bitter about my past or present life. I await your apology, but I won’t hold my breath. Evangelical cars don’t have a reverse gear.
I made it very clear to Donald that his judgment was materially wrong. He should have apologized for his behavior, but if there’s one thing I know about Evangelicals, it is that they don’t do apologies. Doing so would require them to humbly admit that they were wrong.
Now let me respond to Donald’s latest comment.
Donald admits that he evangelizes other people. He admits that he publicly witnesses to unbelievers. Yet, he astoundingly thinks that atheists such as myself shouldn’t do the same; that we should keep our beliefs and stories to ourselves. Donald wants a world where the only message being heard in the public square is Evangelical Christianity.
Donald claims he has an agenda based on “facts.” I would be more than happy to talk to him about these “facts” of his. So if Donald wants to talk about the Bible, Evangelical theology, or church history, I’m game. If Donald has not done so, I encourage him to read one or more of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the history and nature of the Biblical text. I will even provide Donald with one of Ehrman’s books free of charge.
I spent significant time in my first response to Donald explaining to him why I do what I do. It seems that Donald can’t or won’t understand why atheists might want to challenge Evangelical beliefs, especially since those beliefs directly affect and harm unbelievers. My God, we need only to look at the January 6 insurrection of the election of Donald Trump to see how Evangelicals harm others. Evangelicals are the primary force behind the culture war. These warriors for Jesus want to criminalize abortion, outlaw same-sex marriage, marginalize LGBTQ people, and establish a Christian theocracy where the Bible is the law of the land. These things materially cause harm, so it would be irresponsible for me not to speak out on these (and other) issues. I suspect Donald wants the freedom to do the same. Again, I ask why does Donald want privileges for Evangelicals that he is unwilling to grant to atheists, agnostics, humanists, pagans, and other unbelievers?
Donald said “I have no doubt that you know everything I could say in rebuttal to your claim God doesn’t exist.” This would be a safe assumption. I was in the Christian church for 50 years. I attended an Evangelical Bible college and pastored Evangelical churches (Independent Fundamentalist Baptist, GARBC, Sovereign Grace, Christian Union, Southern Baptist, and non-denominational) in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan for twenty-five years. I preached over 4,000 sermons and spent thousands of thousands of hours reading the Bible, reading theological tomes, and studying for sermons. I wanted to be the best pastor possible, a man who loved God and practiced the teachings of the Bible. I am confident that I can handle myself in any discussion about the Bible and Evangelical theology/practice. Again, I am more than happy to engage Donald on these issues. The ball is in his court.
Donald doesn’t like how some commenters responded to his comment. Evidently, he wants the freedom to disparage me, but no one should be allowed to challenge his assertions. When people comment on a public blog, their words are their own. I don’t agree with every comment. I hope Donald understands that he bears the collective weight of all the Evangelical zealots who have come before him. Scores of Evangelicals have told me that I am bitter, angry, hate God, secretly want to commit sexual sin, or that I am a liar, a deceiver, a false prophet, or demon-possessed. Day after day, week after week, year after year (since 2007), Evangelicals have attacked my character or provided armchair physiological analysis. Long-time readers have watched these attacks unfold on this site. Should it be surprising that they are tired of the people I “affectionately” call Assholes for Jesus?
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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It was not my intention to attack your character. I will gladly apologize for it being perceived that way. I don’t apologize for asking why. It’s more than obvious you by the way of social media have an agenda. It seems we are both invested in our beliefs. We can debate the Bible all day and I doubt we would convince one another to change. It was not my intention to offend you or those that believe as you do. I truly do not understand any belief system that offers no hope and no future. Just for my personal satisfaction if you don’t mind , tell me how did this all happen. Where does our existence come from ? How did life begin ? Again ,I offer my sincere apologies.
So it is our “perception” of your behavior that is wrong. Sure . . .
You read all of one post on this site. Try being curious. Please see:
http://brucegerencser.net/2020/08/curiosity-missing-evangelical-trait/
You can read more about my story here:
http://brucegerencser.net/why/
Thanks for commenting.
Bruce
If you are going to apologize to Bruce, this isn’t quite it. You DID attack his character. Apologizing for attacking his character is a true apology. Apologizing for a perception of attack is not really a true apology. You are being somewhat more humble and less officious. You could probably read Bruce’s blogs because he explains everything you want to know in them.
Exactly.
Donald, you can ask google for any number of theories on the origins of life the universe and everything. As far as being hopeless, I personally have a lot more hope outside of christianity than I ever did in it as several christian beliefs looked at the world and humanity as nothing more than evil and vile and the only direction Humanity was going was worse. Talk about a buzzkill. I am much more pragmatic and accepting of reality without the bible tinted glasses clouding my vision.
Donald, we have plenty of hope in our lives. It’s the childish us-versus-them mythology and the bogus hope of eternal life that we’ve discarded, not the things that really matter such as ethics, empathy and engagement with the real world.
This short comment, for me, sums up the issues I have with religious belief. What do you mean by referring to a belief system that offers ‘no hope’? Yes, I know what you are trying to say but inventing something that clearly isn’t true (when you die I’m afraid that’s it!) doesn’t compete with trying to understand the world and its underlying reality in the time that we are here. That provides more fulfilment than any amount of going to church, praying, and constant supplication can possibly provide.
As for where did we come from and how did life begin? I could be vulgar about where we come from but actually you are asking the same question. We evolved, is where we came from, and your question is how did life begin. I’m not a scientist so I won’t go into abiogenesis (which is the answer, because it’s the only ‘game in town’) so I’ll stick with ‘I don’t know how life came about’. And, guess what, neither do you. You’ve invented a response that you think provides an answer, but it doesn’t, it really doesn’t.
Donald, it’s really, reeeally simple: If it wasn’t your intention to attack Bruce’s character, you shouldn’t have fucking done it. You remain 100% responsible for your insults. Stop pretending that we’re too sensitive or that we somehow misconstrued your blatant attempt at character assassination as hurt fee-fees. You’re the problem here. Own it.
for these vermin, it is a matter of getting permission or forgiveness. Donnie boy here thought he wouldn’t be called on his lies. Now he thinks everyone is required to forgive him.
To demand forgiveness is an unspeakably abusive thing to do. If Donald had done that to me, not only would his chance of forgiveness be zero in perpetuity; I’d probably pour myself a tall glass of mead and mutter dark imprecations in old Norse while inscribing attack-trained runes in the air with a lit taper…
…Heck, maybe I’ll do that anyway. Sounds like fun! 😀
And one more Christian who got caught being a vicious asshole and now thinks everyone is at fault for holding him responsible for what he said. This is what comes from a rather silly religion that the believers insist that their god always must forgive them, despite their repeating “sinning”, and then running back for more forgiveness. It’s rather exactly like using this god as a vending machine, dispensing “forgiveness” on demand.
Alas, for poor Donnie, atheism was never to give hope or future. We all get that from other worldviews. Donnie is stuck with a god that murders kids, works with its supposedly evil archenemy to get its blood sacrifice to itself to work, and that literally “must” release this enemy to corrupt Christians since this god kills everyone else, so this god can get its final bloodbath. He has nothing but a death cult.
As for his questions, theyy are no more than god of the gaps arguments, a Christians desperate to find a job for his god. Even if we never know how life began, Donnie has no evidence for his version of the Chrsitian god.
Just in case you didn’t read the article Bruce offered below, here’s an excerpt. “More and more Evangelicals are discovering the curiosity that lies dormant beneath the surface of their lives. Once they make this discovery, they are on their way out of the closed-mindedness and senses-dulling prison of Evangelicalism. They will find out that science can and does explain the world they live in. Science doesn’t have all the answers, but it is asking the right questions.” You are interacting with a community of people here who are science-literate and have strong critical thinking skills, as well as being friendly and open-minded. We are fully alive, questioning, and happy human beings, This might be one reason why secular humanism is fast-growing, vibrant and flourishing while conservative Christianity is declining. Atheist and humanist blogs have great intellectual power for inquirers and seekers. I have learned so much by being here. Bruce ends by saying, “Curiosity may kill the cat, but trust me Evangelicals, it won’t kill you.” True that.
Hi Donald. As a non-Christian, I’d like to point out that you seem to be approaching this as a very black and white matter in which your brand of Christianity represents “hope” and the beliefs of folks like Bruce (or presumably myself) = “no hope.” What do you imagine people hope for? I personally hope to be the sort of person that can look back on my life, whenever it ends, and be proud of what I did and how I treated people. Point being, I don’t actually have any interest whatsoever in what happens after my body dies. I don’t “lack hope” of heavenly salvation, because I don’t think the idea of salvation is remotely important, and I don’t believe in heaven in the Christian sense. To turn your “why” back in your direction, why do you feel that Bruce’s atheism is threatening? You believe what you believe, for reasons that are personal to you; others believe what they believe for their own reasons, completely independent of your personal convictions. The world would likely be a better and more peaceful place if people minded their own spiritual business, but that seems to be a tall order for some folks.
‘….wants a world where the only message being heard in the public square is Evangelical Christianity.’ Yes Donald, as I read it, that’s indisputably your desire. But what branch of evangelical x-tianity do you ‘believe’ to be the right one to get us accepted into ‘heaven’? Yours? There are already over 40,000 evangelical sects. Many formed cos of splits over doctrine. Many parts of the church here in the UK are in their death throes, which the pandemic has helped along its way of course. So, here in my area, can’t help wondering why gawd seems only to be helping push it off the cliff into oblivion. My methodist pastor friend is leaving the denomination to set up a home church as he’s against same sex marriage that is now permitted in methodist churches. My closest friend is distressed by the split in her anglican church as the vicar has opted in to the voluntary scheme to do same sex blessings in his church. Woulda thought your omnipotenrt gawd, if he existed would do something bring folk together, not part them even more.
Oh, and I too was a fervent x-tian for decades, so to quote Bruce, ‘I have found the Promised Land, why would I return to bondage in Egypt?’ My early new year wish for you, Donald, is that, like many of us here, you can come out of your darkness, it’s a great life out here in the sunshine.
Well said Bruce.Thanks, as always, for your compelling posts.
How sad that some Christians can only find hope in fairy tales. Maybe they are so damaged that fairy tales are the only medicine that works for them. I know people like that. May God bless them.
It needs to be said that there is abundant life after death. When I die, life goes on. Yes, my petty little self-important ego is extinguished. Good riddance! But the genes I share with all living things persist in living, growing, and evolving. The love I shared lives on. The art and writing that I am a part of will persist, for awhile. My real being is woven into a miraculous fabric. That fabric will flourish — I hope! — after my bones are in the ground.
I just sent a week in the United Arab Emirates where the state religion is Islam and there’s a mosque on literally every other street corner. Literally no matter where I was I could see at least 2 mosques. I felt like it was the Middle Eastern version of Nashville – different religion, similar model. Yet, like Nashville, there are many residents of UAE who aren’t Muslim. Some people we talked with were vocal about being nonreligious and wanted to discuss whether in the USA we are better able to be nonreligious since we don’t have an official state religion. I told them it’s slightly better here – we aren’t going to be arrested for being nonreligious – but there’s a lot of social pressure to comply. And in areas where a certain type of religion dominates, such as Nashville, you will probably be treated negatively if you don’t comply with the dominant religion.
Donald, this is the kind of thing I am against – outside pressure to comply with an identity, a religion, with which I do not agree. When you come in here and approach us negatively because we don’t believe your set of mythology and try to mansplain to us that we have no hope or no happiness without bothering to ask us, it’s really off-putting at best. You like your religion? Cool. The Muslim guy in UAE likes his religion? Cool. But don’t treat me as a leper or evil or negatively because your religion doesn’t work for me. I am a happy, fulfilled person without belief in any deities. I absorb the beauty around me. I enjoy interacting with a lot of kind people of a variety of backgrounds. No Jesus or Allah or insert deity name necessary. Please converse with us rather than talking at us.
I love this comment. And I concur with everything you’ve said.
Awomen!
Piling on here, because I love this, too. I was having a conversation with a friend earlier today, who was describing how the work he did assembling a 100-minute set of video clips by family and friends about his mother, on the occasion of her 100th birthday, allowed him to improve his understanding of her and regard her more gently (they have a difficult relationship). Your statement, “I absorb the beauty around me”, is a superb way of describing this kind of experience. It is a very anti-Christian experience, in that it allows a fragile, wounded human to discover and respect the beauty in another fragile, wounded human…but Evangelical Christianity declares that we are all completely without beauty, being worthless and as revolting as used tampons are to teenage guys (and others who haven’t acquired an adult relationship with adult bodily functions).
Let us all absorb the beauty around us, including that of our very imperfect, work-in-progress, fellow humans.
Donald is one more asshole who lies “Why so critical of something that doesn’t exist? I have a reason, a belief in something that I believe will help them. ”
no, he wants external validation and spread his lies because of that. And I’m critical of something that doesn’t exist and the lies told about it will help people when it doesn’t. With those lies, people blame themselves for not being good “enough” for this god to do something for them, when the problem is that this god doesn’t exist at all. It’s nothing more than victim blaming.
I like his question, “Why not just let people believe as they will?” Shouldn’t that apply to him as well? And, in my experience, it’s almost impossible to change somebody’s beliefs unless they are already questioning theirs and have started pursuing those questions. And even then, I don’t think another person changes their beliefs, I think another person can be a guide post, so to speak, on that person’s journey to change. Many atheists that I know became atheists by simply reading the Bible! There were many people involved in my journey out of religion. It wasn’t just one author/blogger/YouTuber, etc. There were many, that I sought out on my own, who helped me in my deconversion.
So Donald, in answer to your question, people do believe what they will.
Wow, Nice reply’s . You accuse me of exactly what you’re doing and that is being hyper critical of another’s beliefs. I’m not too sensitive like most of you appear to be. Not easily offended either. If I were Bruce… There is nothing you can say , call me that I haven’t heard or called someone myself. You judge my apology as being not sincere and yet you don’t like being “judged” . Do feel the same ire towards Jehovah Witness, LDS, Catholics, others as you do Baptist ? Is it just Baptist you don’t like ? They seem to be your target. You put us all in the same basket as if we are all the same . That is not only inaccurate, it’s a downright lie. In your world you will cease to exist, not unlike a insect. It’s just over. I understand being an agnostic , most of us were. You say, I think we evolved, maybe but I really don’t know. It takes more faith to believe evolution than creation. One last thing Bruce. I don’t doubt your level of intelligence, nor your sincerity in your “facts “. I got as many as you. We just chose what we believe. Your influence is widespread as you well know, not without effort on your part. I have read some of your much publicized history. It seems you enjoy being who you are . Your fans or followers are protective of you probably like when you were a pastor. Some things change, some things don’t.
Donald, may I introduce you to the First Rule of Holes? “When you’re in a hole, stop digging.
May you lose your faith and never regain it.
There again , you guys determine what’s right, who’s right ,etc. You do not tolerate another opinion. You are the exact replica of what you think of those different. Your leader has trained you well. Sarcastic, condescending dogmatic and everything he calls those of the religious kind that he once was. Old habits are hard to break. I digress.
So, are you taking back your almost apology? Because you went right back to being smug and condescending, and then you point at us as being sarcastic or critical of you. There’s not much you are saying that shows you are willing to listen or learn from others who disagree. Oh, and it’s not Baptists, it’s any person of any religion or even non-religious, who shows up acting smug, condescending, and nasty…like you.
(Springy G whistles innocently as She implants a posthypnotic suggestion into Donald’s brain that will cause his unconscious mind to imagine Satan boinking the Holy Spook every time he hears or reads John 3:16)
You’re welcome, luv. 😀
Donald, please try to understand that if you make snarky remarks about someone, on the basis of not reading what they’ve had to say on the subjects you are talking about, the chances are they won’t respond in an especially happy manner.
Donald, I’ll end my comments here with just one point. You refer to ‘choosing’ what you believe. I challenge you as regards this. I don’t think you can choose what you believe. I don’t believe in God, and no amount of apologetics is likely to change this. If evidence of a convincing nature were to be adduced then I could reconsider, but I’ve not seen any so far (actually, quite the reverse), and nor am I anticipating any. This exposes the silliness of Pascals Wager: I could swear blind I believed in the hope of achieving salvation, but presumably any god worth its salt would spot my deception a mile away.
Donald.
First off, just a gentle reminder because I’m sure you know this, that the plural of ‘reply’ is ‘replies’.
Second of all, my fellow commenters here aren’t actually all that sensitive. It’s just that we’ve heard it all before, most of us more times than we can count. We struggle to respect people who won’t put in the time to read Bruce’s story, but step forward to judge him as ‘bitter’, which we’ve learned is Evangelical shorthand for ‘you aren’t Jesus-ing the way I think you’re supposed to’.
As someone trained as a scientist, I assure you that Christianity has very few facts, in the scientific sense. You have a holy book. There is no verifiable evidence for the existence of any deities, let alone yours. There are many details of your holy book that are refuted by well-established scientific evidence. That doesn’t mean there are no deities, including the Christian version(s). But don’t come here and use the term ‘facts’ at us, claiming you have them, and expect us not to laugh.
An enormous body of evidence underscores the scientific understanding of the evolution of life on our planet. If you want us to believe that all those scientists are somehow wrong, misguided, etc., then get yourself into a PhD program in one of the many disciplines that engage with evolutionary theory and prove them wrong. Wait, you want to dispute all that with your holy book, or anecdotes, or other ‘evidence’ that’s poorly cited? Great, we could use more laughs.
Life is about living. A famous atheist and science educator named Richard Dawkins has lately become a poster child for certain beliefs that disrespect aspects of some people’s humanity, which justifiably makes him a pariah in the circles where I move. But there’s a famous quote from him that I’ll paste here, because for this atheist, it sums up why all your blather about ‘hope’ is so much hot air:
“We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here. We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?” ― Richard Dawkins, Unweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder
It’s a blessing to be born human, a blessing conferred by the universe. Take it and run with it, and quit demanding more than that.
You just can’t help yourself. I have learned that it is almost impossible for Christian Fundamentalists to admit they are wrong snd accept responsibility for their poor (sinful) behavior.
“Do feel the same ire towards Jehovah Witness, LDS, Catholics, others as you do Baptist?”
No, just Christian assholes.
“Is it just Baptist you don’t like ? They seem to be your target. You put us all in the same basket as if we are all the same . That is not only inaccurate, it’s a downright lie.”
Well, I was a Baptist most of my life. What do you expect? I write about what I know. I readily admit that there are a few good apples in a garbage can filled with stinking, rotting apples. Most readers understand that I am not talking about all Baptists, all Evangelicals, all circumcised men, all anything. That said, if you think my observations are wrong, point them out and show me why they are wrong. Don’t just sit in the hinterlands whining, crying, and complaining about what the nasty, hateful atheist Bruce Gerencser said about your tribe.
And, yes, I think the IFB church movement is a cult.
“In your world you will cease to exist, not unlike a insect. It’s just over.”
You say, I think we evolved, maybe but I really don’t know. It takes more faith to believe evolution than creation.
You have no evidence outside of an ancient religious text that (your peculiar) God created anything. Hebrews 11 says that believing God created the universe is a faith claim. You diminish your faith by trying to “prove” creationism is true. Science says otherwise (and I am no scientist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night).
Yep. That’s reality. And it’s the same in your world too. No Christian goes to Heaven after they die. They go to the same ground as atheists. hoping that Jesus will some day resurrect them from the dead and reward them for their works. 2,000 years . . . every person who has ever died remains dead, rotting in the ground.
“It seems you enjoy being who you are.”
Most days, I do. Christianity destroyed my self-worth. It’s taken a decade of counseling to undo the damage done by Christian Fundamentalism. I have rediscovered who I am really am. I no longer have to play nice with people who are judgmental and hateful, people who try to cause psychological harm (attempting to abuse because they themselves have been abused). I encourage you to jump in the deep end of the pool. The water is grand.
“Your fans or followers are protective of you probably like when you were a pastor.”
Maybe. I see them as people who have their opinions. And many of them are friends.
I have read some of your much publicized history.
Just remember you leave a record behind every time you view a website page. You have an interesting definition of the word “some.”
Do you have a problem with me telling my story? Shouldn’t everyone be free to tell their stories, and have them read by others?
What Donald doesn’t seem to understand is, if he comes here and insults you, and then makes a not-quite-apology, he isn’t on firm ground to make demands. It’s like he thinks it’s okay to come to your blog and insult you, but as soon as we spar with him, he’s insulted we aren’t just laying down and taking his crap. And it is crap.
Bruce, your congregation really responds in your defense. You are without doubt their pastor and this is your platform “pulpit”. Any perceived criticism is met with name calling, just as if you were their pastor in a IBC today. It’s ironic how things never change. Who put that desire in your heart ? I’m sure your flock will be offended. Your sheep will respond to their infallible leader being “attacked”.
So much for “peace that passeth all understanding,” wot? It’s obvious, Donald, that you’re obsessed with this blog and that you’re fucking desperate to get in the last word. All you’re doing is making yourself look like even more of an asshole. My advice to you is “Quit while you’re behind.” 😀
Just as I thought, Protect Pastor Bruce. Come to his defense like a good church member would. Do you guys tithe as well ? Obsessed, not quite. Fascinated is more like it by your cult likeness and inability to have a civil discussion. Pastor Bruce has a lot of work to do. Have a good day.
Great witness, Donald. You bear false witness and you insult strangers. Fuck you and fuck the Holy Spirit too.
Hey Donald, we are protecting a man we care about who is being attacked by another fundie asshole. You aren’t the first and you won’t be the last. He’s not our preacher. Damn, man, I’m not an atheist but you sure don’t represent Christianity very well.
There’s Fundamentalist Donald …
Ask yourself, Donald, do your words and behavior reflect the teachings of Jesus? You could have been an example of a good Christian; one who evidenced the fruit of the Spirit; one who followed Jesus’ words when he said to “love your enemies.” Sorry, dude, but there’s nothing in your behavior that suggests you take Jesus’ teachings seriously. All I see is an ass, a butt hurt Fundamentalist who is upset people challenged his behavior.
You didn’t make a good faith effort to read and understand my story. Instead, you went after me personally. Not one of your comments had anything to do with the post you commented on. This tells me you either had an agenda or you got your fee-fees hurt.
You had an open opportunity to represent your Lord and Savior. I hope you will reflect on your missed opportunity and the harm you caused to Jesus.
Be well.
Bruce
Pastor Bruce, You haven’t strayed too far. I stand accountable, as you do as well. I don’t claim to understand your heart as only Jesus can do that. That includes you understanding me as well. I’m not your typical fundamentalist as you conclude. Stay save , that includes your followers.
This is your last comment. I hope you said everything you intended to say.
If it walks, talks, and acts like a Fundamentalist, it is a Fundamentalist.
Hi Donald. I have watched you reply here repeatedly, each post more divisive than the prior. You claim you are not a typical fundamentalist, but yet you show the very attributes of a typical fundamentalist..judging, aggressive, belittling, attacking, all as a witness to your religious belief. Then you get defensively dismissive when people do not bow to your “facts”.
As it happens, Bruce is a big boy and doesn’t need Sage or anyone else to defend him.I can confidently say that no one here follows or worships Bruce as you might worship or follow your pastor, or former president, or church, or god. But Christian’s always feel the need to defend their god, which makes me wonder why god cannot defend itself.
His blog is informative and is interesting to read. He offers support to marginalized people, which I appreciate. He freely expresses his experience of growing to be a more accepting person. And he openly share the challenges that many of us have with people,like you.
The people who are regulars here are also supportive and accepting of all kinds of people. You don’t have to meet the special rules to be accepted into that selective club like you must do among evangelical Christians.. People here don’t call me an abomination, tell me they love me but hate what I am, or call for my death, or belittle me because I do not accept club rules. They accept me as I am, including my flaws and my tendency to be a little bit irritable. Some here may not understand me or approve of my life, but they believe we all have a right to coexist on equal terms.
Bruce and others here are more generous than me. I personally have a dislike for most Christian’s because they are either openly hateful, or silently sit by while the fellow Christians are openly hateful. It seems nothing is evil if it is done for “gods glory” and that the ultimate goal is to achieve political power by any means needed, so that christian values can be made into the law.
Christians spend their time attacking me from all sides, trying to hide or eradicate me and people like me. So, I aggressively push back against people like you, for whom I have no respect and no desire to hear. Many people in my community are abused, hurt, and destroyed by the hate and rhetoric of Christians. Many do not survive. Others are left hiding in fear of christians. Many live in daily pain because of guilt christians put on them or due to pressure applied by christian family and friends.
I have survived through many years, and hid for a long time. I eventually realized the lies and toxicity of christianity, especially the fundamentalist brand. As a result, I am free the hate and persecution of christians, and now I can stand up to the hate of the christian world, and perhaps protect other members in my community who suffer under hateful Christian dogma.
So if you, or other christians get their feelings hurt by what I say or my unwillingness to back down, or my demand to be treated as equal, just remember I really don’t care. If your feelings get hurt, or you feel disrespected, then I suggest you just move on. If you can’t accept or respect me, then you will get the same treatment in return.