What you have done to the least of these my brethren you have done to me”. That verse seems to imply Bruce that who you were really telling to f%#$k off is Jesus not me, because I belong to Jesus.
— Evangelical Joe Sperling
Despite telling me four times that he would stop contacting me, Joe continues to send me emails:
Being human my curiosity caused me to check back on your site tonight. I was surprised you had extended the thread to a “Part 2”. I am not “outraged” at all. Just still shaking my head a little in disbelief that you told me “f$#$k you Joe” and then “f%$%k off!” That was in no way warranted. In fact, I didn’t say anything about your mental health until AFTER you had cursed me. I was using sarcasm (as I am sure many who read my email could easily surmise) when I said I was writing a chapter for a book about Abnormal Psychology. That was purely tongue in cheek.
I was just very surprised that you would find it “easy” to address someone in that way. I had even posted a message for Michael because of his civility, and his taking the time to list (4) points he wanted me to consider. The only post that had caused a truly negative response was when I spoke of slavery to point out they had no formal education due to their being in chains, but were very wise people. Sage took offense that I used slavery in my analogy. I told her she was being “touchy”. She is entitled to say whatever she wants to say though, and I need to learn to use different analogies in the future. But I never once found it within my right to tell her or anyone else for that matter to “f$#%k off”!
A blog like yours is set up to allow discussions to take place, so I was very surprised that you “silenced” me so soon. And then on top of that thought you had the right to tell me to “f%$%k off.” I disagree with people but never feel I have the right to say something like that to them. I do appreciate your allowing me to post my thoughts though. It is YOUR blog so you can run it as you see fit. I am only sending this email because you said you would allow me one more.
By the way, I never said you were on your way to hell. I said I felt intense sadness that deconverts will “miss out” and feel deep embarrassment when standing before Jesus one day. I will not take back that thought. I DO feel intense sadness when thinking of that. I know you don’t believe in a Judgment seat, but I do. One of the “laws of physics” says something to the effect of “for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction” (again, just a paraphrase if I’ve gotten the quote wrong). You believe we all just die and that’s it. You see I think the “law” I mentioned above can also apply to the spiritual realm. Did Heinrich Himmler just “die” and everything about him is now gone? Perhaps you can believe that, but I cannot. His “actions” caused untold grief to thousands and thousands of people. I believe one day, before the Great White Throne he will be asked to explain why he did what he did, and will be judged for it. I think we ALL must stand before God and explain why we did what we did.
“What you have done to the least of these my brethren you have done to me”. That verse seems to imply Bruce that who you were really telling to f%#$k off is Jesus not me, because I belong to Jesus.
I will not contact you again. All I can do is hope that any of the deconverts on the board might think twice about their decision. I know that 99% will say there is no need to re-consider. But there might be that 1%. And as that famous line Jim Carrey says in “Dumb and Dumber” “so you’re telling me I still have a chance!!??”
God bless you.
Where, oh where do I begin? As you can see, Joe is just a poor, misunderstood bloke who didn’t do anything to warrant me telling him to “go fuck himself.” His words speak for themselves. Joe tries to paint himself as a victim. He states that he was surprised I “silenced” him so soon. 🙂 Uh, Joe left twenty-five comments and sent me a dozen emails. He more than said his piece, even after I asked him repeatedly to stop contacting me.
Joe believes he is Jesus, that when I told him to “fuck off” I was really saying these words to Jesus. No, Joe, I am telling YOU, flesh and blood Joe, to “go fuck himself.” Not Jesus. Jesus is a dead man. Why would I tell him to “fuck off.” Besides, I don’t have a problem with Jesus, It’s you, Joe, and others like you I have a problem with.
Joe thinks that his words on this site might “help” a few deconverts who read my writing — maybe one percent. I think I can confidently say that Joe has helped them, reminding them of how glad they are to be free of Jesus and away from those who say they speak on his behalf.
I replied to Joe’s latest email. Here’s what I had to say:
Trigger Warning to Joe. This email contains swear words.
Joe,
You seem to think I give a shit about what you think. I don’t. You’ve told me four times you wouldn’t contact me again, yet you continue to email me. Why is that?
Stop the gaslighting, Joe. Own your behavior instead of blaming everyone else for how people responded to you. Stop lying. I never told you that you could email me one more time. Why the fuck would I do that? You know I told you that you could leave one more comment, which you did. So, don’t even suggest I said I wanted to hear from you again.
I don’t buy for a moment your claim that you were being sarcastic about the book blurb and my mental health. You intended your words to wound.
You are supposedly a grown-ass man, Joe. You can’t handle someone telling you to “fuck off” in an email? Especially since my response to your behavior was warranted. You seem to think you can say and do whatever you want without people responding to you. Not on my blog. I’ve dealt with countless Joe Sperlings over the years. I refuse to let them bully me, attack my character, or shit all over my blog. You ran into the wrong atheist, dude.
You say you are a Christian. You say you are a follower of Jesus. Yet, your behavior is anything but Christian. What did Jesus tell you about how to treat your enemies? How would Jesus have responded if someone told him to “fuck off”? WWJD?
I intend to make our email interaction public. This allows my readers a look at how Evangelicals behave, exposing the ugly underbelly of Evangelicalism. You have done a good job advancing the cause of atheism.
If you want to continue to harass me, I suggest you start a blog. It’s free, takes five minutes, then you can deconstruct my life to your heart’s content.
Bruce Gerencser
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Joe, Joe, Joe…I find it rather humorous that you mention taking Abnormal Psychology several times in your illogical tirades, as though taking that class make you an expert psychologist with a PhD.
I took abnormal psych in my third semester of community college back in the eighties. I was a biology major and took it as an elective because I found the subject interesting. Funny how you keep mentioning that particular class on this blog, as though no one knows your dirty little secret-It’s not an advanced class and certainly doesn’t make you a licensed therapist. Also worth mentioning, you write as though you’ve never written a term paper or thesis. Just sayin’.
Now, don’t you feel kind of stupid?
Go. The. Fuck. Away. Or as Bruce put it-Fuck off, Joe.
Like many evangelicals, Joe believes he has the TRUTH and needs everyone to submit to hus version of TRUTH or shut up. He believes that his deity is going to throw everyone who doesn’t submit into an eternal place of physical conscious torment, but Joe, as a proper submitter, will be elevated to the Proper Place in Paradise. He believes he is special, and that those who do not submit are dung deserving of this eternal torture.
Joe, when someone tells you to go away, in unequivocal terms, repeatedly, you do not have the right to react with annoyance or shock. You were warned, you were tolerated to a point, and then you went beyond the boundaries set by Bruce. Yes, Bruce permits comments, but under conditions, and you broke those conditions. You have the freedom to start your own blog, or rant on social media, but here, now, in this space, you are being disrespectful.
When he references justice, Joe like so many Christians talks out of both sides of his mouth. He talks about Himmler and how unfair it would be if he were just dead instead of someday facing judgment. Yet he believes that if Himmler had accepted Christ before his death he would be given eternal life in heaven. The same could not be said for any of his non believing victims who would suffer infinitely more in the afterlife than they had under Himmler. This interpretation of justice seemed so reasonable to me when I was an indoctrinated Christian but now I am appalled that I ever believed that.
Exactly!
When I was still in high school, I expressed my deep concern about the fates of the unbelievers to my youth pastor. How it is very sad that poverty-stricken and disadvantaged unbelievers, who have no chance to hear the Gospel, will have an even more miserable after life. Who would choose to be born in that situation?
His answer: it’s still better for these poor people that they have been on this earth. He was adamant that existence, even if it is guaranteed to end up in eternal torture, is always better than non-existence. Even at that age, I could tell he was speaking nonsense.
I always enjoy when Christians like Joe are such pathetic cowards that they must try to deny they believe everyone who doesn’t agree with them are going to hell. Joe said this “I do not wish wrath upon Bruce. I don’t hate Bruce. That day belongs to God.” Like any good cowardly sycophant, he claims he is “just following orders”.
“By the way, I never said you were on your way to hell. I said I felt intense sadness that deconverts will “miss out” and feel deep embarrassment when standing before Jesus one day. I will not take back that thought. I DO feel intense sadness when thinking of that.”
The only “great sadness” that joe feels is because no one needs him or his god.
“I believe one day, before the Great White Throne he will be asked to explain why he did what he did, and will be judged for it. I think we ALL must stand before God and explain why we did what we did.”
hmmm, so this god, supposedly omniscient and all, has to have people tell it why they did something.
Yeah, I’ve received three more emails from him. He’s outraged that I said he told me I’m going to Hell. He didn’t use the word Hell, but as you show, Hell is assumed in his comments about Judgment. Evidently, Joe’s not aware that many of us have read the Bible; that we are astute theologically. Don’t treat us like we are ignorant of the B-i-b-l-e.
Joe is quite a twit. I’ve debated similar who try the rather common whine “but but I didn’t say that literally, so you can’t assume what I meant”. Alas, for them, it’s not hard to know what they mean exactly, having been former Christians ourselves.
I think they must assume that their god will polish their metaphorical turds But as those of us who know the bible can say, this god will step in literal shit if you don’t cover it up yourself . This god isn’t too bright. One would think that omniscience would show poop.
“12 “You shall have a designated area outside the camp to which you shall go. 13 With your tools you shall have a trowel; when you relieve yourself outside, you shall dig a hole with it and then cover up your excrement. 14 Because the Lord your God travels along with your camp, to save you and to hand over your enemies to you, therefore your camp must be holy, so that he may not see anything indecent among you and turn away from you.” Deut 23
Also, funny that we haven’t found thousands and thousands of these buried shits thanks to archaeology, and the bible telling us where exactly they would have had to shit.
I’m having far too much fun typing “shit”. 😀
LOL Club. “Shit” was my mom’s favorite word, and I struggled to not say it. Now? As an old person “fuck” and “shit” come out of my mouth a lot. But it is in my home. If I was working (which I don’t now, disabled/retired) of course I wouldn’t say it either. But you reminded me of her. She’s been gone almost 20 years and she was one of the good ones.
My mom’s favorite curse word was shit, dammit, too. Your comment got me thinking, I don’t ever remember my dad swearing.
I didn’t swear most of my life. These days, my favorite words, in order of use, are:
Fuck
Dammit
Jesus
Hell
Shit
Trump 😂😂
I went to a very conservative Christian college. Nearly all the employees were Christian, they basically would only hire Christians.
The head of groundskeeping was not Christian, but since he was retired, cheap, and amazing with plans, the colleges greed and desire to look good won out over Christian values.
One of his favorite words to use was shit, but always in reference to dog and other animals and birds spreading their shit across campus. He would smile when he used the word shit, because all the good Christians would turn white with a look of horror.
I asked my boss, who was a retired preacher, why this guy could use that word, and he shrugged and said “its how he refers to dog poop. He learned it on the farm. He technically is right, it’s technically not swearing..”
And he was clever too, because if anyone complained, he would basically tell them that if they didn’t want him to talk about this shit then they should make sure people clean up their own shit, instead of expecting his team to deal with their shit.
I liked that man.
My mother in law also had quite a way with “shit”; alas she passed around 20 years ago too. Husband is ex-Army and he taught himself not to say “fuck” every other word after he got out. Then I ended up working for (and hopefully will again) a company where most people are ex-military and “fuck” is used quite creatively as every possible part of language 🙂
In the military, “fuck” is an all-purpose piece of language. It, or its forms, can be used as noun, verb, adjective, adverb, punctuation, accent, “line break,” sentence opener or ender, or, really, any way you can think of.
“Fuck! That fuckin’ re-fuckin-cruit fuckin’ is the fuckin’ most ab-so-fuckin’-lutely fuckin’ stupid motherfucker I’ve ever fuckin’ seen.”
I actually heard that. In its own fuckin’ way, fuck, it’s un-fucking-believably fuckin’ brilliant!
You didn’t think you’d hear anythng like that from a proper atheist transgender lady, did you?
Joe: “All I can do is hope that any of the deconverts on the board might think twice about their decision.”
Zoe: And there it is again.
He’s sent me three more emails, each a primer on gaslighting. I’m starting to think Joe’s never had someone stand up to him.
Joe: “By the way, I never said you were on your way to hell.”
Zoe: Joe, do you think we’re all stupid?
I’ve taught college freshmen who came from the worst inner-city schools and people who returned to school after reading nothing more challenging than the New York Post for decades. Any one of those students came to my class with better reading and critical thinking skills.
How do I know this? I’ll give two examples. First, Joe conflates Bruce’s exhortation to him with cursing out Jesus. If this isn’t an example of poor reading comprehension, the “Joe” has a real complex.
For another, he took offense to Sage’s response. Now, I can’t read her mind, but I strongly suspect that what bothered Sage (I can’t blame her) is how what Joe said about slaves “singing joyfully “ plays into a stereotype and comes off as a rationale for cruelty: if you survive it and it gets you into a fantasy-land where everyone sings praises and no-one wants, then it all wasn’t so bad, was it?
Hmm…Maybe he’s writing scripts for remakes of “Song of the South” and “The Green Mile.” I mean, he’s got the concept of what Spike Lee called “The Magical Negro” down pat. Too bad (for him) Morgan Freeman isn’t available.
Yes MJ, you are right and I fully agree with your assessment.
This particular stereotype is one I detest intensely. Joes use of this stereotype, and his desire to define some people with “that is a good one” that is a bad one” and a couple of other comments certainly began to define an image of Joe.
It was one thing to affirm my gender identity. It was another to stop putting so much of my energy into being one of the “good” trans women.
“Joe, The Evangelical, Likens My Life to Driving Off a Cliff and Committing Suicide”
….. and then diving out the driver’s door of the evangelical vehicle, pulling the rip cord and landing upright on the secular beach below. So many never quite clear the door and end up in the evangelical wreck below.
Why would Joe start his own blog when he can leech on Bruce’s?
One doubts that Joe read Jean Meslier’s Testament (all 593 pages!). He can’t remember the title and even misspelled the last name (Part One). Obviously, Joe is condemned to come into this world with no capacity to comprehend what Jean wrote over 300 years ago. As a result, Joe thinks he belongs to Jesus who didn’t have the balls to incarnate 2000 years ago as a mentally retarded leper or, as least. as a raped and illiterate teenager like his mother (then let see they try to preach the Kingdom of Heaven to the mass).
The fact is: it’s pure luck that Joe (and his Jesus) wasn’t Heinrich Himmler or a cockroach or a COVID mutant. No surprise if Joe Sperling is like Elizabeth Prata, namely, divorced, single, and barren. The two can write that they love Jesus, but just can’t live with him 24/7 for long. And vice versa.
“Joe, The Evangelical, Likens My Life to Driving Off a Cliff and Committing Suicide”
….. and then diving out the driver’s door of that evangelical vehicle, pulling the rip-cord, and landing safely upright on that secular beach below. So many never quite bail out the door and remain inside that evangelical wreck on that rocky bottom at the base of the cliff. Sadly.
Joe: “All I can do is hope that any of the deconverts on the board might think twice about their decision.”
Joe has probably stopped reading this thread. But, in case he is still reading it, I’ll comment on that.
Yes, I have thought twice about deconverting. I have thought about it many more times than merely twice. And each time I think about it, I recognize it as one of the wisest decisions that I have ever made.
Joe, I have never deconverted, but I am curious. Where did you earn the doctorate in theology that qualifies you as an expert on the subject of Christians leaving the faith? Harvard Divinity? Princeton Theological?
Tom,
Trump University. Of course. Joe even got a hat and a sticker to show for it.
Joe is full of his own righteousness. Turns out, that doesn’t go far with his god.
“ALFIE: anyone know what he said? Someone said it started with an F?”
Bruce said to Revival Fires, “go fuck yourself.” You and Joe should get together and make sweet, sweet love. 😂😂
oh look, RF is being incoherent again. Nothing like a conservative Christian being such a great object lesson to see exactly how vapid Christianity is.
Unfortunately for RF, we already know he’s a fraud since he can’t do what the supposed messiah Jesus Christ promised to his true followers.
Put it back in your pants, Reviled Dumpster Fire.
There is something very, very wrong — and very, very nasty — about Joe. Everything he writes positively screams “chronic abuser,” including the blatant “You’re too sensitive” directed at Sage, the “I was just joking” backpedalling regarding his failed attempt to diagnose Bruce, playing the victim, unable to own his behaviour, unable to respect boundaries.
It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if he also behaved this way with people in his life, and if that is indeed the case I hope they dump him and run for it.
Astreja, I was just thinking the same thing. He started out politely and then when Bruce and others stood up to him and set boundaries, he became abusive. I work at a state forensic psychiatric facility and I have seen many men there who behave exactly like Joe.
Astreja—I had the same thought I was in a relationship with somebody like him. They never accept responsibility for how their words and actions affect others. They’re also great at making themselves the victims after they’ve victimized someone.
It almost goes without saying that, for them, gaslighting is like breathing.
MJ, not at all surprised and if we can’t say “Fuck!” in 2022, when can we say it? 😉