None of us likes to apologize. Apologizing to a person or a group requires us to admit that we were wrong. Im not talking about fake apologies here: “I am sorry you feel that way” or “I am sorry you feel offended.” I am talking about apologies where we recognize we caused harm and want to make amends.
All of us are going to say or do things that offend or harm others. None of us is perfect. We can act out of selfishness, greed, offense, or anger, harming others in the process. In such times, it is proper, dare I say essential, for us to apologize. As a former Evangelical pastor, I said and did a lot of things that harmed my wife, children, and church congregants. While I can justify my bad behavior by saying I didn’t know any better or that I was a product of Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) indoctrination and conditioning, the fact remains that I materially harmed people. To those people I owe, at the very least, an apology, and, if possible, the making of amends.
I left Christianity in 2008 — fifteen years ago. After deconverting, I sent out a letter explaining my decision to family, friends, and former parishioners. You can read this letter here. This letter elicited a number of judgmental, hostile, hateful responses. Overnight, I became a pariah, an enemy of God. People I had known for upwards of fifty years said some pretty awful things to me, accusing me of being demon-possessed, mentally ill, and a false Christian. My best friend said that I was mentally ill; that I was destroying my family. Another dear friend sent me a long letter that suggested I was under the influence of Satan. She was the only Christian during this period who later had second thoughts about what she said to me and apologized.
Over the years, I have received thousands of emails, blog comments, and social media messages from Evangelical Christians, including pastors, evangelists, missionaries, professors, and college friends. I have received very few emails, comments, or messages from Evangelicals (or conservative Catholics) that I would consider thoughtful or respectful; attempts to sincerely understand why I deconverted. The rest of them were openly hostile toward me, often saying and doing things that caused hurt and harm. I quickly learned that some Evangelicals will lie to prove a point; that others totally ignore what Jesus said about how to treat your enemies.
A handful of Evangelicals have later come back to me and apologized for the things they said to me and I happily forgave them. That said, I am not one who thinks an apology requires forgiveness in response. Shortly before Polly’s mom died, I had an IFB family member call me and say all sorts of vicious, vile, hurtful things, including threatening me twice with violence. I finally hung up on the man. At Mom’s funeral, this family member came up to me and said “I’m sorry for those things I said you.” I replied, “Thank you, and then turned away.” The man crossed a line of no return with me. Nothing he could say would fix the harm and hurt he caused, not only to me, but to Polly and our children. I suspect he felt guilty over his behavior and that was the motivation for his attempted apology. Religion will do that to you. Guilt is one thing, contrition and restoration are something else. Sadly, this man wasn’t too apologetic. When it came time for him to settle Mom’s financial accounts — Mom refused to let us do it because we are atheists and she didn’t “trust” us — he shorted Polly’s inheritance by at least $5,000. (Money, the one thing that will show the truth of one’s religious beliefs.)
I generally forgive people who sincerely, with no strings attached, apologize. I have only withheld my forgiveness from three people in sixty-six years: the aforementioned family member, my mom’s father, John, and his wife, Ann. (Please see Life with My Fundamentalist Baptist Grandparents, John and Ann Tieken.) My Mom’s dad is dead and his wife is in a nursing home. I haven’t spoken to either of them in over twenty years. I cut them out of my life and that of my children years ago. I have no regrets for doing so. They were bad people. As the living family member mentioned above, he might be able to buy my forgiveness by returning the $5,000 he stole from Polly (and the leftover money from the insurance and the jewelry that was supposed to go to Polly). 🙂 That’s never going to happen, so I have no intention of forgiving him.
Thinking about the thousands of Evangelicals I have interacted with over the years on this site, why is it so hard for them to admit and apologize for being uncharitable, meanspirited, or hateful? When their behavior is challenged straight from the Word of God, why do they ignore my rebuke or try to justify their awful behavior? Is what I say true, regardless of whether an atheist is saying it? Isn’t the message what matters, not the messenger?
I have tagged 212 posts with the Evangelical Email and Comments tag. I suspect there are a hundred or more posts from earlier years that I should have tagged but didn’t. Read their emails, comments, and messages to me. Where, oh where, is Jesus anywhere to be found?
When I give these followers of Jesus what loyal readers call “The Bruce Gerencser Treatment®,” I always notify them that I have responded to them. Some of them use fake names and email addresses — cowards for Jesus — so I can’t let them know that I have weighed their words in the balance and found them wanting. What I found interesting about the rest of them is that over ninety percent of them never acknowledge or respond to my response post. Why is that? Fear? Upset that they have been outed or made to look bad? Or perhaps they deep down know they shouldn’t have called me names, slandered me, attacked my character, disparaged my family, or ridiculed the readers of this blog. They are embarrassed by their assholery; that their ugly behavior is on public display for all to see. I warn Evangelicals on my comment page:
If you email me anyway — and I know you will, since scores of Evangelicals have done just that, showing me no regard or respect — I reserve the right to make your message and name public. This blog is read by thousands of people every day, so keep that in mind when you email me whatever it is you think “God/Jesus/Holy Spirit” has laid upon your heart. Do you really want your ignorance put on display for thousands of people to see? Pause before hitting send. Ask yourself, “How will my email reflect on Jesus, Christianity, and my church?”
I suspect this warning wards off many Evangelicals from sharing the “good news” with me. Several hundred people access the contact page every month, but most never hit send. While I still get email these days, the volume is minuscule compared to what I received ten or so years ago. Either Evangelicals have given up on me — doubtful — or the various roadblocks I have set in their way frustrate them enough that they give up or refrain from hitting send out of fear of being publicly exposed. Either way, I get enough email to keep me (and Carolyn, my editor) busy and hopelessly behind.
If Evangelicals are anything, they are certain they are right. Many of them, such as Dr. David Tee and others, believe that, as an atheist and a humanist, I don’t say anything worth hearing. In their minds, I am under the influence and control of Satan, so what could I possibly say that is relevant and true? This certainty, of course, breeds arrogance. Evangelicals can’t apologize because that would mean that they were wrong. Filled with the Holy Ghost and armed with an inspired, inerrant, infallible Bible, how could they possibly be wrong? Or so their thinking goes, anyway. So they run roughshod over atheists and anyone else they disagree with, thinking Jesus approves of their stand for truth and their war against atheism.
Think about your time in the Evangelical church. Do you remember a time when your pastor or another church leader stood before the congregation and admitted they were wrong? Do you ever remember your pastor or another church leader apologizing to you personally or to the church as a whole? Never? Once, maybe twice? I did, on occasion, but certainly not as often as I should have.
That’s why I have stopped expecting Christians to take seriously the teachings of Christ, especially the Sermon on the Mount. I have stopped expecting them to give behavioral evidence that they are followers of Jesus — especially the fruit of the Spirit. And because they have abandoned the teachings of the Bible they “say” they believe, it shouldn’t surprise anyone that Evangelicals do the things they do.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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The emphasis in the Bible is that, when we disobey the rules, God is hurt. There is little emphasis that others are hurt. So the only apology, if any, often goes to God.
Jesus proclaimed that people’s sins were forgiven. How could he do that? Is it not the person that is hurt that needs to do the forgiving? But somehow, apologizing to God and accepting his supposed forgiveness takes care of the problem, without apologizing to the person harmed and seeking his forgiveness.
Human actions sometimes hurt people. But we also need other people. So when one’s actions hurt a person that he needs, then an apology and reconciliation with the person involved is so important. When this basic human need for good relationships is overshadowed with an emphasis on not breaking divine rules, necessary human relationships get hurt.
Great points, Bruce and Merle. For an Evangelical (or any sort of religious fundamentalist) to admit what they did “in the name of God” was wrong is to say their God is wrong That, for them, is the ultimate blasphemy.
I appreciate all you say here. I have told my wife again and again that if Christianity is what it appears to be out there, I want nothing to do with it. And I have no desire at all to step into an evangelical, fundamentalist church ever again, but will do so only when visiting family. And if there’s good in it, I can affirm that. I too am progressive, “liberal” in my American politics. It’s interesting that you note, Bruce, how your conservative politics and fundamentalist faith were so intertwined so much that your political view was part of the gospel you believed. Some sort of Christian nationalism, I suspect. I was raised Mennonite, but back at that time influential Mennonite theologians, particularly one, was writing to get the Mennonites into the evangelical camp while still holding on to some Mennonite distinctives. We are now part of Grand Rapids Mennonite Fellowship (Michigan) which fully accepts LGBTQ+ for marriage and ministry, is for movements like Black Lives Matter, etc. That is part and parcel with the gospel as I understand it, which to me is as big as the world while as “small” as each human heart. I have no desire to try to convert anyone. I do happen to pray for people and their faith, just because I think that can help them. I’m in the Christian universalist camp. There’s so much harm done when people try to convert others. Why can’t people simply love others because they themselves are human and the other person or people are human, too? So I resonate with what you say. I appreciate your honesty and resonate with much that you write. I do believe in God and the gospel and am under the influence of Karl Barth though much more indirectly than directly. But the gospel if true is good news for all, for the Muslim who dies along with the atheist, and while they’re living, too, etc. But it doesn’t sweep wrongdoing under the rug. Justice matters. Real love will make people feel at home and loved no matter what else. Well, sorry for all my rambling here. Hopefully it won’t hit a wrong nerve with any reader, though sadly that’s probably inevitable. I can’t think of the right way of putting that. Thanks.
Christians could learn a lot from Judaism, the main religion from which they co-opted ideas. It seems to me that many Christians are ignorant of the rich tradition in (many sects of) Judaism of studying, learning from, and growing their religious ideas. For example, asking for forgiveness and working to make amends is a well-thought-out concept in Judaism. It is the responsibility of the person who committed wrong to state (without excuses or equivocation) that they have done wrong to the one wronged, and they ask for forgiveness without expecting anything in return. They are also supposed to ask the person whom they have wronged ways that they can make amends. The person who was wronged is not responsible for offering forgiveness – they are justified in simply walking away. Unlike Christianity, there is no expectation or pressure on the person who was wronged to do ANYTHING.
OC—My former spouse is Jewish. I no longer considered myself Christian when we married, but I hadn’t yet become an atheist. So, I was willing to participate in her religion for the sake of the children we talked about having—and because some aspects of it, like its teaching about forgiveness, seemed to be more grounded in ethics and pure-and-simple reality than the Roman Catholicism in which I was raised or the Evangelical Christianity of which I was later a part. Of course, as with any other religion, there were things that didn’t make any sense to me.
I remember being on the “I’m certain I know the most about God team” compared to other denominations and religions. And even then, my denomination was considered out of the mainstream by evangelicals and fundamentalists, so our people weren’t trending into Christian nationalism. But now, my understanding is half of my former denomination (SDA) has gone over to the angry side.
The inability to apologise properly is tied to a fundie trait of never, ever, being wrong. Without naming names, we both know of one particular fundie who can never admit to any form of wrong-doing, be it insulting behaviour, or wild claims. The idea of conceding ground in any way shape or form is terrifying to them.
Bruce, money does measure sincerity. My Evangelical relative (in Bryan), testifies she knows God’s mind, but is so grasping that when her Mother died, even as she lay in the funeral home, this daughter asked half siblings from the first marriage to sign off any share of a large estate acquired during the second marriage. Taking advantage of grief shocks the conscience but I’m sure her religion enables justifying it. Her superstition, being conveniently amorphous, enables rationalizing cold avaricious greed. Being in the right, guilt and apologies are out of the question. Why apologize for doing right?
I am a believer; I don’t think I’ve ever hidden that fact from you (or Ben, or anyone else here). I just don’t feel the need to beat you over the head about it – which, who knows, may be why Derrick “call me by your pseudonym” Thiessen questions my profession of faith. Kind of like how I question his profession of faith considering his history of spousal abuse, identify theft, refusal to be a “worker worth his wages,” his refusal to accept the teaching of 1 Timothy 5:8, and his overall cowardice given the command that he should “be ready always to give an answer to everyone who asks you the reason for the hope that is in you” (and why he has that hope given his documented and verifiable history of less-than-Christlike conduct) and his unwillingness to apply his “these are God’s instructions, not mine” sanctimony to himself.
But I digress. I am a believer who has had my own clinical depression dismissed as a Satanic attack or a lack of faith. I’m a believer who doesn’t think John 15:16 means God is a vending machine. (Sidebar: a “name it and claim it” friend once told me “I had a cold and I pleaded the blood of Jesus over it for three days and on the fourth day it was gone; explain that” … and didn’t talk to me for a few months when I said, “You … have an immune system?”)
The people who have brought me to where I am in my walk are not the people who beat me over the head with “but the Bible says …” They are the pastor who was the first preacher I ever heard stand behind a pulpit and declare that mental illness is just as much of a physical condition as his atrial fibrillation and is deserving of just as much compassion and willingness to come alongside those afflicted. They are the childhood friend, and her family, whose lives spoke so loudly about their faith that the few words they said on the subject were drowned out. They are my great-aunt, a woman of joyous and joyful faith even as her body was slowly eaten from the inside out by radiation poisoning (she was an x-ray tech in the days before they wore lead shields) such that it still burns in my family 15 years after her passing. Even the counselor who once told me “it is perfectly acceptable to look up and yell, ‘you know what, this sucks’ because there’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that, so long as you don’t let yourself stay there and wallow in it.”
Derrick, and many of your other “I. AM. RIGHT. PERIOD.” detractors, will never leave such a legacy. They are too busy showing their arrogance for “the joy of the Lord” to show in them.
I believe that you, too, Bruce … and so many of the others I’ve become acquainted with in this little corner of cyberspace … you too have much positivity and light to share. I would welcome the chance to have a drink with you and enjoy your company … even learn from you if I ever make it out to your part of Ohio (I have family near Columbus) .
I worry that I may have gotten a little too passionate with writing this. If I have, please know that I have no wish to challenge your position on such matters. I figure, if you want to know more about my take, you know where to find me, but please know that I’m going to enjoy my time hanging out in Bruce’s clubhouse with his buddies for as long as I can, regardless of what book you read in the evening.
And I just wish more people of faith would offer you … and so many others … a similar accommodation.
(Apropos of nothing, as the largest online repository of information about Derrick, I’ve considered asking if I can make a guest post at some point. As much as he loves to deconstruct the posts here, he probably couldn’t resist the challenge of responding to a post specifically about him while making exactly zero factual statements. Haven’t decided one way or the other, though.)
W. W. I appreciate your openness about your depression and the people who had unhelpful advice.
In the book, Beyond Born Again, Robert Price (who was a Christian when he wrote it), documents two Christian responses to mental conditions. There is a hardline approach that says faith alone is sufficient and downplays psychological solutions. There is also a soft-line approach that looks to psychological and psychiatric solutions. Those who take the hardline approach can bring immense harm to those suffering from conditions like depression. The hardline approach often intensifies depression rather than cure it.
I talk about my struggles with depression and faith at http://brucegerencser.net/2022/08/how-my-mind-was-set-free/ and at https://mindsetfree.blog/dare-to-question/is-there-happiness-without-jesus/ .
W.W.: As a Bruce Buddy, I have to say you really do play nicely with us. I like your thoughtfulness and kindness towards us when you’re in the clubhouse. And you are a good writer, too. 🙂👍
I failed to even address the question in my long comment. I guess I might say that I can’t judge, although Jesus did say that you will know them by their fruits: their words, actions, behavior. But it does seem obvious enough to me that when people are all about being RIGHT, having the right answers for this and that and everything else, and criticizing everyone else along with their poor positions, whatever, then there is a kind of self-righteousness that falls into place and is present. In fact, Bruce, I think this realization was helped by words you shared to that effect. They all think they’re miserable sinners so I guess that idea could easily escape me. But I think it makes sense that there is indeed a self-righteousness present when they think they have all the answers and those not in line with that are either evil or deceived. Which seems to more or less be the case with a majority of white evangelicals nowadays at least in the United States.
I was raised by a committed Catholic mother and a lapsed Lutheran father. Neither parent ever quoted the Bible, and Mama’s Catholicism involved a rich, but private, prayer life. Mama was quick to apologize when she’d wronged someone, but also got very offended when someone hurt her and didn’t apologize. From her I learned that not apologizing and making amends can hurt people badly, far more than they tend to hurt me.
I don’t ever remember my father talking about religion. However, he was one of the highest-integrity people I have ever known. He was quick to offer honest apologies when he’d wronged someone unwittingly, and I think it would have been impossible for him to wrong someone deliberately. I’ve tried to live up to that example, not wronging someone deliberately and apologizing quickly and honestly when I’ve messed up and created a problem for someone or hurt them.