It was a ninety-five-degrees in Newark, Ohio on our wedding day. The Newark Baptist Temple was not air-conditioned, but neither Polly nor I paid much attention to the heat. It was our wedding day. Almost two years had passed since we first met as dorm students at Midwestern Baptist College. With hormones raging from Midwestern’s Puritanical rules that forbade physical contact between dating couples, we were more than ready to say “I do.”
Polly’s uncle, Jim Dennis, and her father, Cecil “Lee” Shope performed the ceremony. One hundred fifty people attended our wedding. Parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, and friends from both sides were in attendance, as were members of the Baptist Temple.
Our ushers, Mike and Greg, made sure everyone was properly seated. At the appointed time, my groomsmen, Mike, Bill, Bill, and Wendell, and I walked out the door at the left front of the church and made our way to the front. Remember, the groomsman I told you about in my previous post that had to have his pants altered? He made it two steps out the door before the seat of his pants ripped out. Fortunately, Mike was able to keep his legs together, avoiding showing those in attendance his underwear.
Polly’s uncle, Art, volunteered to take photos of our wedding. He had purchased brand-new lighting equipment to do so. Unfortunately, as Polly and her bridesmaids, Liz, Kathy, Celicia, and Bev made their way down the center aisle, the equipment failed. As a result, we have no live photos of our wedding. One thing was for certain, the most beautiful girl in the world was walking down the aisle, and soon she would be my wife.
Our soloist, Mark, sang three songs: one written by the vice president of Midwestern, The Wedding Song by Noel Paul Stookey, and We’ve Only Just Begun by the Carpenters. Our song choices caused quite a scandal due to their secular nature. Polly’s uncle was livid over our songs, and going forward all couples married at the Baptist Temple had to have their music approved beforehand.
The simple ceremony went off without a hitch. Rings exchanged, vows made, and a kiss for luck, we were on our way.
Afterward, we returned to Polly’s parent’s home for a meal. My parents met hers for the first time. We didn’t stay long. Consummation awaited. We drove to Springfield, Ohio to spend our first night as a married couple, and then to French Lick, Indiana to spend a few days. And then it was back to Midwestern to prepare for our junior year of college. Seven months later, I was laid off from work, Polly was six months pregnant, and we dropped out of college due to financial reasons. We packed up our belongings and moved to the place my birth, Bryan, Ohio. Truly, we had only just begun.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Matt asked, In your IFB days did you ever encounter Peter Ruckman? If so what was/is your assessment of him?
For readers who are not familiar with Peter Ruckman, Wikipedia has this to say about him:
Peter Ruckman was an American Independent Baptist pastor and founder of Pensacola Bible Institute in Pensacola, Florida (not to be confused with Pensacola Christian College).
Ruckman was known for his position that the King James Version constituted “advanced revelation” and was the final, preserved word of God for English speakers.
Ruckman died in 2016 at the age of ninety-four. He was a graduate of Bob Jones University, and for many years the pastor of Bible Baptist Church in Pensacola, Florida. Bible Baptist’s website describes Ruckman this way:
Dr. Peter S. Ruckman (November 19, 1921 – April 21, 2016) received his Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Alabama and finished his formal education with six years of training at Bob Jones University (four full years and two accelerated summer sessions), completing requirements for the Master of Arts and Doctor of Philosophy degree.
Reading at a rate of seven hundred words per minute, Dr. Ruckman had managed to read about 6,500 books before receiving his doctorate at an average of a book each day.
Dr. Ruckman stood for the absolute authority of the Authorized Version and offered no apology to any recognized scholar anywhere for his stand. In addition to preaching the gospel and teaching the Bible, Dr. Ruckman produced a comprehensive collection of apologetic and polemic literature and resources supporting the authority of the Authorized Version of the Holy Scriptures.
The thrice-married Ruckman was either loved or hated by IFB preachers. He was a man known to engender strife, believing that rightness of belief was all that mattered (except, evidently, what the Bible said about divorce). Much like their mentor, his followers are known for their arrogance, nastiness, and argumentative spirit.
I first met Peter Ruckman at Camp Chautauqua in Miamisburg, Ohio — an IFB youth camp owned and operated at the time by the Ohio Baptist Bible Fellowship. I attended Camp Chautauqua two summers in the early 1970s. Attending camp was one of the highlights of my teenage years. Lots of fun, lots of girls, and yes, lots of preaching. One year, Ruckman was the featured speaker. I don’t remember much about his sermons, but I vividly remember the chalk drawings he used to illustrate his sermons. Ruckman was a skillful, talented chalk artist, so he naturally used his art to “hook” people and reel them into his peculiar brand of IFB Christianity.
This would be the only time I heard Ruckman preach. I later would read some of his polemical books and commentaries and come into close contact with some of his followers. While I believed, at the time, as Ruckman did, that the King James Bible was the inspired, inerrant, infallible word of God and the only Bible for English-speaking people, I found his personality and ministerial approach (and that of his devotees) to be so caustic and abrasive that I wanted nothing to do with him.
I would later learn that King James-Onlyism was not only irrational and anti-intellectual, but in its extreme forms, it was a cult. I know a few pastors who are still devoted followers of Ruckman’s teachings. They are, in every way, small men whose lives have been ruined by arrogance and certainty of belief. The only cure I know for this disease is books written by men such as Dr. Bart Ehrman. Until they can at least consider the possibility that they might be wrong, there is no hope for them.
In 2005, I candidated at a Southern Baptist church in Weston, West Virginia. The church was very interested in me becoming their next pastor. One problem — I had preached my trial sermons from the English Standard Version (ESV) of the Bible. One of the core families was a follower of Peter Ruckman. The pulpit committee asked if, out of deference to this family, I would only preach from the KJV. I told them that I couldn’t (and wouldn’t) make such a promise. The church decided I wasn’t the man for them. Such is the pernicious effect of Ruckmanism; causing controversy and division wherever it is found.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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On August 8, 2023, Ohio voters will have the opportunity to vote no on Issue One; to turn back a Republican attempt to keep a simple majority of citizens from successfully exercising their right to overturn and invalidate egregious laws or amend the Ohio Constitution. We must not let this happen. That aside, we must not lose sight of why Republicans are so desperate to pass Issue One next month. One word: abortion.
In November, voters will have the opportunity to pass the Reproductive Rights Amendment. The passage of this amendment will legalize abortion in Ohio and put an end to Evangelical and conservative Catholic attempts to abolish and criminalize abortion. Left to their own devices, God’s Only Party will criminalize abortion, take away exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother, and ban certain forms of birth control. In other words, Republicans want to force women to give birth regardless of their circumstances.
700,000 signatures were collected to put the Reproductive Rights Amendment on the November ballot. 700,000! Republicans know that this number alone is a sign that the amendment will pass. So, using Issue One, they want to change the percentage of votes for passage from fifty percent to sixty percent. This ten percent swing could be enough to defeat the Reproductive Rights Amendment.
Forced birthers are primarily motivated by their religious beliefs. Most of them vote Republican. All of us have a right to believe whatever we want about God and life. However, we don’t have the right to force our religious views on others. Whether to have an abortion is a personal decision. If conservative Christians don’t want to get an abortion, fine, they don’t have to get one. End of discussion. However, other women may believe differently. Should they not have the right to make medical decisions for themselves? Republicans have no business getting in between a pregnant woman and her doctor.
If Ohioans who support the reproductive rights of women and think majority rule is sacrosanct turn out and vote, we will turn back the latest attempt by Ohio Republicans to force their religious beliefs on all of us. We will let them know that we have no intention of giving up the power to turn back egregious laws passed by legislators who are out of touch with everyday Ohioans.
Bruce Gerencser Ney, Ohio
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Alan Schlemon is a Biola University-trained Evangelical apologist; a man who allegedly “train[s] Christians to persuasively, yet graciously share their convictions.”
Baskin-Robbins was my go-to place for ice cream when I was a kid. At the time, they boasted “31 flavors.” With that many options, I was sure to find one that would satisfy my craving.
Though it makes sense to choose your favorite flavor of ice cream, it seems strange to take this approach when figuring out whether you’re a man or a woman. Not long ago, that aspect of who you are wasn’t decided, but discovered. You were born either male or female and grew up to be either a man or a woman.
Not so today.
….
Although many factors probably play a role, the emergence of these “identities” is not surprising. Society has jettisoned belief in God. When you reject your Maker, you reject the one who establishes your identity. People, though, naturally want to belong. They crave to connect with a community of people who share their values and feelings. With the Maker gone, there’s an identity vacuum that begs for a new way to view oneself. It makes sense that the concept of gender identity was born. There’s a potentially endless offering of identities.
With no external Maker to tell them who they are, people look internally. Often, they tap into their inner thoughts and feelings in an attempt to create their own identity. They’re basing their identity on their internal experience, an approach that is fraught with problems.
First, it presumes your inner thoughts are a reliable source for determining your identity. Everyone knows that thoughts and feelings change. What you experience one day can differ tomorrow, next month, or next year. If you base your identity on your internal experience, your identity will change on a regular basis.
But why think your internal states determine your identity? Of all the aspects of a person, why ground identity in an abstract and ever-changing component? That’s why the body is meant to signal one’s identity. After all, if you ground identity in your body, then it’s hard to mistake what sex you are and impossible for it to change over time. This allows your identity to endure. You remain the same no matter how you feel or how you express yourself.
Second, it presumes your identity is a matter of choice, not an objective reality. Choosing an ice cream flavor is a matter of preference—just pick what you like. Today you might want Oreo cookie ice cream, but next month it might be mint chocolate chip. There’s no problem with changing your favorite flavor because it is your prerogative to choose what ice cream you eat.
….
If identity is an enduring part of who you are, then leaving it up to a personal decision is problematic. People end up identifying as one or more of dozens of possible identities based on how they feel inside. It becomes a subjective exercise. We allow children to do that when they role-play. They might pretend to be a pirate, prince, or princess. We recognize they might feel the internal bravery of a prince, but everyone knows they are not objectively a prince.
Third, it presumes you are like God. You’re not the Creator, though. You didn’t make you. Determining who you are is, frankly, above your pay grade. If you create something yourself, you have full knowledge of the process, the materials, and the purpose of what you made. That’s when you can decide its identity.
….
Mere mortals shouldn’t take the role of the divine. Since the Creator creates the creature, it’s his prerogative to decide his creation’s identity. Transgender ideology subverts the role of the Maker by allowing the creature to determine its identity.
….
Our Maker, though, knows best. He not only made us; he loves us. That’s why we can trust him and ground our identity in him.
There are eight billion people in the world, yet Schlemon believes most of them are living in denial of or are rejecting their “true identity.” Schlemon, a presuppositionalist, lives in a black-and-white world. People are saved or lost; in or out; headed for Heaven or Hell. Either we accept our true identity or we live in denial of our identity. Of course, the world is far messier than Schlemon would like it to be. It seems the Christian God lacks competence when creating human beings and the world they live in.
There’s much I could say about Schlemon’s post, but I want to focus on a fatal flaw in his thinking. Schelmon says our true identity comes from God. Fine, when we are born, what is our true identity? Evangelicals believe that all humans at birth are sinners; enemies of God. We don’t become sinners, we are sinners. That’s our identity. Yet, if people want their sins forgiven and want to go to Heaven after they die, they must change their original identity (whether by regeneration, an act of volition, or both). So, people can and do change their identities. In fact, the Bible says newly saved sinners become new creations in Christ, old things pass away, and all things become new.
Further, Evangelical Christians identify with a plethora of sects, beliefs, and identities. They have peculiar traits by which we can identify them as Baptists, Charismatics, Pentecostals, Calvinists, Arminians, Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, etc. These religious traits are very much a part of their identity, are they not? And don’t Evangelicals change identities? I know I did.
People personally choose whether to believe (or not) and, after believing, they choose which sect they want to identify with. Surely, Schlemon would agree that these are individual and personal decisions. How are these decisions any different from people choosing their gender? Of course, Schlemon, much like the homophobe Dr. David Tee, denies that there are multiple genders; that there are more than two sexes. He can deny these scientific facts all he wants, but the fact remains that there are more than two sexes and there are more than two genders. Certainly, we need to discuss how gender is chosen and how people identify with a particular gender. But, people change their minds, Schlemon says. Yep, what is his point? I am sixty-six years old. My life has been one of frequent movement and change. My identity has changed dramatically over the years. Why this is so can be explained from a sociological perspective — no deity needed (though certainly the fifty years I spent in the Evangelical church influenced and affected my identity).
I will leave it to you, the reader, to further challenge Schlemon’s assertions. Enjoy!
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Richard asked: During your time inthe IFB what was your particular view on the KJV? Did you change this view prior to leaving Christianity?
I grew up in Baptist churches that only used the King James Bible. These churches weren’t King James-only per se. It is just that the King James Bible was the only version these churches used. I don’t remember ever hearing a sermon on why church members should only use the KJV. This all changed with the publishing of the New International Version (NIV) in 1978 and the New King James Version (NKJV) in 1982. This forced Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches and pastors, along with IFB colleges and seminaries, to stake out positions on English Bible translations. The college I attended in the 1970s, Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan, was decidedly King James-only. Professors and students were required to use only the KJV, and chapel speakers were required to do the same. Using a different translation was grounds for immediate expulsion. At the same time, however, the KJV extremism of Peter Ruckman was also banned, I suspect out of trying to avoid the infighting that Ruckmanism tended to foment. (Please read Questions: Bruce, In Your IFB Days Did You Encounter Peter Ruckman?) That said, Ruckman’s teachings found fertile ground in which to grow, and more than a few Midwestern graduates became Ruckmanites. These pastors advertise their beliefs about Bible translations by displaying on their church signs and literature KJV 1611. (Back in the day when Polly and I were looking for a church to attend, we took KJV 1611 on a church sign to mean: Danger! Infected with an incurable disease. Do not enter!)
I entered the ministry as a defender of the inspiration and inerrancy of the Word of God; “Word of God” being the King James Bible. While I was never a follower of Peter Ruckman — I despised his nasty, vulgar disposition and that of his disciples — I generally believed as he did: that the King James Bible was God’s perfect word for English-speaking people. I wasn’t one to spend much time preaching about Bible translations. Everyone knew that at the churches I pastored we ONLY used the King James Bible.
In the late 1980s, I read several books that called into question my belief that the King James Bible was inerrant. I concluded that no translation was without error, and that inerrancy only applied to the original manuscripts. I took the approach that the KJV was the best and most reliable translation for English-speaking people. I held this position until the late 1990s.
In 1995, I started a non-denominational church, Our Father’s House, in West Unity, Ohio. I would pastor Our Father’s House for seven years. It was here that my theology, politics, and social values began to change. In 2000, I decided to change which Bible translation I used when preaching. I had already been reading other translations in my studies, but using anything but a KJV for preaching was a big deal, at least for me. Congregants? They couldn’t care less. I used the New American Standard Version (NASB) for a year or so, eventually moving to the English Standard Version (ESV). I was still preaching from the ESV when I left Christianity in November 2008. Devotionally, I read Eugene Peterson’s masterful translation, The Message. I found great joy and satisfaction when reading The Message translation. It was a Bible that truly spoke the language of the common man.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.
Luke Bese, a youth leader at Hope Kingsburg [Mennonite] Church in Kingsburg, California, was sentenced to one year in prison for arranging a meeting with a minor for lewd or lascivious behavior and a misdemeanor charge of annoying, molesting any child under 18 years of age.
A former youth pastor in Kingsburg was sentenced Tuesday to serve one year in prison for having an inappropriate relationship with a 16-year-old church member.
Luke Michael Bese, 30, was convicted in May on one felony charge of arranging a meeting with a minor for lewd or lascivious behavior and a misdemeanor charge of annoying, molesting any child under 18 years of age.
Bese, who worked as a youth leader at Hope Kingsburg Church, began a secret relationship with the 16-year-old that included sending her lingerie from Victoria’s Secret, a sex toy, and condoms. Bese, who is married, also requested that the teenager send him photos of herself in the lingerie.
The relationship lasted nearly eight months, beginning July 29, 2018 and ending March 28, 2019. Bese was arrested on June 8, 2020.
During Bese’s sentencing hearing, Judge Alvin Harrell III admitted to being torn over how to punish the former youth pastor for his crimes. Harrell noted that he received many “glowing” letters in support of Bese.
Nearly a dozen family members and friends sat in the audience in support of Bese. Family members described him as a selfless person who studied for years to become a pastor.
Bese spoke briefly, offering an apology to his family and to the teenager who was also in the courtroom.
“I am sorry for the mistakes that I have made, this has been a trying time for me and my family,” Bese said. “I made decisions I should not have made. I am so sorry.”
The teenager had tears in her eyes as Bese spoke. She chose not to speak, but others did on her behalf.
Prosecutor Adam Christopherson said Bese’s actions violated the trust placed in him by the church, the young people he worked with and the person he preyed on. Christopherson urged the judge to give Bese prison time, not probation.
“This kind of conduct can not be tolerated,” Christopherson said.
A friend of the victim said many people in the church’s youth community felt let down by Bese. But hurt worst of all was her friend.
“It has left her broken,” she said.
The judge acknowledged the good work Bese has done, while also recognizing the emotional trauma he has inflicted.
“I am not here to stay what a monster he is,” Harrell said. “He is a good man, he is a bright man. But he is also a man who knew better than to engage in the actions that he did.”
Harrell said Bese was careful to conceal what he was doing because he knew it was criminal.
“You asked her to take pictures of herself in the lingerie,” Harrell said. “That is completely inappropriate.”
Bese was sentenced to one year in prison and must register as a sex offender, Harrell said.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Christine Geiger, the Christian owner of Studio 8 Hair Lab in Traverse City, Michigan, had this to say about cutting the hair of transgender people.
I wonder if this is what Jesus would do (WWJD)? I doubt it. Ugly, hateful Christianity at its best. I hear Dr. David Tee gets his hair cut at Geiger’s salon.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches are known for being the Baptist version of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. IFB soulwinners fan out across their communities knocking on doors, hoping the people resting from a long, hard day at work will answer their knock and want to spend ten minutes hearing their sales presentation. While the sales pitches vary from church to church, the goal is always the same — to induce customers to sign on the dotted line, uh, I mean sinners to accept Jesus as their Savior.
Church members are given specific instructions about how best to evangelize those who answer their doors. Members are told to never deviate from the script. Keep on message, says Pastor Gerencser. Don’t let the prospect for Heaven ask questions. All they need to know is gospel. Here is the soulwinning method I taught countless church members:
Soulwinner: Hello. My name is Pastor Bruce Gerencser and this is (pointing to soulwinning partner) John Baptist. We are from Somerset Baptist Church, and we are out today inviting people to church. Do you attend church anywhere?
Prospect: Well, yes I do. I attend the Methodist church in Somerset.
(Sometimes, at this point, the soulwinner might ask where the church is located or who the pastor is. If the prospect can’t answer these questions, it is evident that they don’t attend church regularly.)
Soulwinner: Why that’s great. We don’t want to take anyone away from their church home. (This, by the way, is a bald-faced lie. The goal is to take as many people as possible away from what is perceived as liberal, apostate churches.)
Soulwinner: Before we go, I would like to ask you a question. If you died today, would you go to Heaven?
Prospect: I am a good person. I think I will go to Heaven when I die. (The answer is meaningless. The soulwinner plans to share the gospel with the prospect regardless of how the question is answered.)
Soulwinner: Let me quickly show you how you can know for sure that you will go to Heaven when you die. I promise this will only take a few minutes. (The soulwinner, before the prospect can answer, opens his King James Bible to Romans 3, preparing to read.)
(At this point, the soulwinner should ask if they can come into the home. If the prospect says no, then the soulwinner should continue sharing the gospel on the porch.)
Soulwinner: The Word of God says in Romans 3:23, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. This means that all of us, you, me, everyone is a sinner. Do you understand what it means to be a sinner?
Prospect: Sin is doing bad things.
Soulwinner: That’s right. (The soulwinner might list a few small and big sins to emphasize the fact that we are all sinners)
Soulwinner: The Bible also says in Romans 6:23, For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The just payment for our sins is death.
Soulwinner: The last part of Romans 6:23 says, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The bad news is that the wages (payment) of sin is death. We all will someday physically die. And if we don’t know Jesus as our Savior, we will also spiritually die. This spiritual death means that those who haven’t accepted Jesus as their personal savior will spend eternity in Hell. The good news is . . . you don’t have to go to Hell when you die. God will give us eternal life in Heaven if we put our faith and trust in Jesus. Wouldn’t you like to escape Hell and go to Heaven when you die?
Prospect: Uh, sure.
Soulwinner: That’s great. The Bible says in Romans 10:9:That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. This verse says that if we will confess with our mouths and believe that Jesus died for our sins on the cross and rose from the dead three days later, God will save us.
Soulwinner: What is your first name, sir.
Prospect: Horace.
Soulwinner: Horace, the Bible says that if Horace shalt confess with his mouth the Lord Jesus, and if Horace will believe in his heart that God hath raised Jesus from the dead, Horace will be saved.
Soulwinner: Horace, would you like to be saved? Would you like to know for certain that your sins are forgiven and that you will go to Heaven when you die?
Prospect: Yes. (If the prospect is the least bit hesitant, the soulwinner should stress the fact that none of us knows when we will die. It could be today!)
Soulwinner: The Bible says in Romans 10:13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. That whosoever includes you, me, and everyone. All you have to do, Horace, is pray and ask Jesus to save you. Are you willing to ask Jesus to save you?
Prospect: Yes, but I am not very good at praying.
Soulwinner: Don’t worry, Horace. I am going to say a prayer, What I want you to do is repeat this prayer.
Prospect: Okay.
Soulwinner: Dear Lord Jesus.
Prospect: Dear Lord Jesus.
Soulwinner: I know that I have sinned and I deserve to go to Hell when I die.
Prospect: I know that I am a sinner and I deserve to go to Hell when I die.
Soulwinner: But I also know Jesus died on the cross for my sins so I don’t have to go to Hell when I die.
Prospect: But I also know Jesus died on the cross for my sins so I don’t have to go to Hell when I die.
Soulwinner: Right now, I put my faith and trust in Jesus and ask him to forgive me and save me from my sins.
Prospect: Right now, I put my faith and trust in Jesus and ask him to forgive me and save me from my sins.
Soulwinner: Thank you, Jesus for saving me and giving me eternal life.
Prospect: Thank you, Jesus for saving me and giving me eternal life.
Soulwinner: In Jesus’ wonderful name, Amen.
Prospect: In Jesus’ wonderful name, Amen.
(Once the now-saved prospect says Amen, both soulwinners, with raised voices, say AMEN!)
Soulwinner: Horace, based on the authority of the Word of God, you are now a Christian. The Bible says in Romans 8:38,39: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. God says, Horace, no one can take away your salvation. Isn’t that wonderful?
(At this point, the new Christian is given literature that tells him he needs to find a good church to attend — that good church being Somerset Baptist Church, read the Bible every day, pray every day, and tell others about what Jesus has done for them.)
Scores of Americans have, at one time or the other, been accosted by Jesus-peddling IFB soulwinners hoping to sell them the truncated, bankrupt Fundamentalist Baptist gospel. There are numerous versions of this approach. I used what is called the Romans Road. Some churches use John’s Road — from the gospel of John — or church surveys. Southern Baptists popularized the use of surveys. The goal is to identify people who can easily be persuaded to buy siding/windows/driveway sealing/vacuum cleaners/magazines/steak knives/insurance/Jesus.
The goal is to win as many souls as possible. It doesn’t matter that most of the souls won to Jesus will NEVER darken the doors of an IFB church, never be baptized, or do any of the things “good” Christians support.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, Dr. David Tee, a Fundamentalist preacher whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, unleashed a vitriolic rant about transgender women on his blog. You can read his post and my response here. Showing his inability to feel shame, Thiessen unleashed yet another post about transgender women — one more awful than the first.
Two days ago we wrote an article called ‘Let’s Cut the Bull’ and as usual we got a response from one of the two people [Bruce Gerencser and Ben Berwick] we use as examples. But we are not going to deal with his complete response [because we have no defense for our hateful words], just one sentence.
That sentence tells everyone that he and the other guy do not do research, listen to the news, or in any way pull their heads out of the sand to see what is going on in the real world. We include both here because we have had to deal with the same problem from both of them– they do not do any real or honest research before speaking. [Please read Thiessen’s complete post if you want to see his “research.” What you will find is a list of anecdotes.]
please provide empirical evidence for the claim that transgender women are materially hurting heterosexual women and girls (BG website)
Those words were placed in brackets or parenthesis if you like the more technical term, behind these words- We cannot sit on the sidelines on this issue as they are hurting you if they hurt your wife or your female children [Thiessen provided no empirical evidence that this is systemically happening — just a handful of anecdotes].
There is a deep cost to women [please provide empirical evidence for this claim] by allowing men pretending to be women to exist in normal society. We will have to deal with this in two parts as one is physical harm which has reached the news frequently.
The other is more psychological as fake [transgender] women continue to do damage to real [heterosexual] women and girls.
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We do not want to use the word transgender here because these men are not real women and should not be identified as being able to make a transition that is impossible to make. [Picture Thiessen standing on a corner, ears stopped up and hands over his eyes, saying, “I don’t see any transgender people. He is deliberately ignorant of what is right in front of him. Transgender people have always existed, going as far back as the third century. Some scholars argue that eunuchs in the Bible are intersex people. I wonder if Thiessen read Transgender History and What Does the Bible Say About Transgender People? My money is on NO! Thiessen’s typical “research” is seeking out articles that prove his point or agree with him. Fundamentalists don’t do actual scholarly research. Their minds are already made up. Certainty breeds arrogance, and the result is Thiessen’s anti-transgender posts.]
….
Men are stronger than [some] women no matter what changes they have made to their bodies. it is not Christian [Bible verse, please] to support this inclusion in female athletics. [I agree. Let’s have an actual discussion about transgender women participating in athletics with biological women. Of course, Thiessen doesn’t want to have a discussion. All he wants to do is preach. If he would bother to pay attention, he would find out that many transgender women have their own misgivings about participating in sports with biological women. Thiessen can’t know this because he’s never spoken to an actual transgender person.]
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This damage can be as devastating [please provide empirical evidence for your claim] as physical damage done by fake [transgender] women. Women have had it rough since the beginning of time [thanks to misogynistic men such as Thiessen] and this so-called better modern era [Derrick pines for the good old days of the 1950s] where equal rights [evidently, Thiessen thinks women shouldn’t have equal rights] have been established is not doing any better than when women were considered property. [Did Thiessen really say women are no better off today than when they were chattel property? Really? I mean, really?]
The effort to be ‘inclusive’ has only succeeded in proving that [some] biological men are biologically stronger than [some] women. It has done nothing but harm women in a variety of ways [which are? Come on, Derrick, unleash your inner bigot]. You will not find one Bible verse condoning or giving permission for this type of inclusion [and we won’t find Bible verses for all sorts of human behaviors].
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Other psychological abuses that fake women do to real women come through bullying [bullying takes place in every cohort].
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They [biological women] are outcasts and pariahs [I am rolling on the floor laughing at this absurd statement] as the fake [transgender] men and women have chosen an abnormal path that cannot be accepted as normal or right. The only reason the fake [transgender] women and their supporters fear real [heterosexual] men and women is because the truth of the latter destroys the delusions of the former and makes them realize that they have been deceived.
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The fake [transgender] men and women are forced to see that they are not who they pretend to be and then must deal with the truth. The author of that quote was deceived by the outward appearance of the fake [transgender] men and women she met in San Francisco.
We [I] say deceived because even bad people can be nice. One guy, and we [I] forget where we [I] read this account but it is not original with us [me], said that when he got a job as a corrections officer in one prison one of his thoughts was he would be able to tell child molesters from regular criminals and people.
He was surprised at how nice and polite those child molesters were and how easy it was for them to be accepted as normal men and fit into regular society. Being nice and kind is not always a sign of a Christian as evil does masquerade as angels of light as the Bible says. [In other words, transgender people might be nice and kind, but in their hearts, they are like child molesters.]
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This issue is not about a threat to one’s identity but about how completely wrong it is to allow these fake [transgender] men and women to think the way they do and then let them into normal society like nothing is wrong. [Thiessen believes transgender people should be arrested and incarcerated (and perhaps, executed). He does not believe the same about heterosexual rapists and child molesters. He thinks all they need to do is repent and get right with God.]
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Sure, a woman can take chemicals to boost their testosterone and strength, as well as mutilate their bodies to look like a man. BUT that act does not change the truth or reality.
There are only 2 genders and only 2 gender identities. [Again, Thiessen deliberately confuses biological sex and gender. This is what happens when the Bible is your science textbook.] You are either a man or a woman and neither can change that fact. Not only is this biblical as the Bible tells us God made male and female only, but it is also proven scientifically [this is a lie].
Science backs the Bible in this case. Those who think they can change their gender and those that support this delusion are the ones with the problem. They need help [Jesus] and it is up to the Christians to not only provide the truth but also provide the correct spiritual help to lead these deceived people back to reality.
It is not Christian to allow these [transgender] people to harm women, invade women’s athletics and other events and it is definitely not Christian to go along with this deception. Christians should recognize this as a spiritual problem [please provide Bible verse that says being transgender is a “spiritual” problem. I can provide Bible verses, Derrick, that say divorce, failing to provide for your children, and abandoning one’s family are sins. I will be glad to share them with you if they are not in your Bible.] that needs the correct spiritual effort to heal these deceived groups of people.
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Telling someone they are deceived and wrong, as well as doing the wrong thing is not a phobia or fear of something. Nor is it bigotry. It is trying to get those who adopt this trend to see the truth about themselves and what God has done at creation. [Thiessen is responding to me calling him a homophobe and a bigot. I stand by my words.]
Just as a side note, the lead-in that caught our attention is wrong. trans women are not real women. They are fake women who have a mental illness that is spiritual in nature and they are in need of help.
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The so-called trans women do not have one body part [come on, Derrick, say it: penis or vagina] or process [what is a process?] that a real woman has. They [transgender women] are never going to be woman no matter how much money they spend on cosmetics and surgery. The reverse is true for those women trying to be men through this trend.
— end of quote —
Please share your thoughts in the comment section. This should be fun! 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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One of the reasons given by atheists/agnostics for leaving Christianity is the belief that the Christian God doesn’t give a shit about those who devote their lives to following Jesus Christ. No matter how much time is expended in worship and service, God never says, thanks, good job, or I have your back. Why should he? According to Evangelical theology, Jesus, the sinless son of God, came to earth to atone for humankind’s sin. He suffered horrific brutality at the hands of the Romans. He was then, like a common thief, nailed to a cross. According to the Bible, Jesus was beaten to such a degree that it was hard to tell that he was a man. After hours of suffering, Jesus died. All of this was on behalf of sinners (or the elect, if you are a Calvinist). Knowing all that Jesus suffered, Christians should be satisfied with knowing their sins are forgiven and a home in Heaven awaits them when they die. The least Christians can do is, in slave-like manner, devote themselves, without bitching and complaining, to the Kingdom of God on Earth. In other words, shut up, stop complaining, and be thankful for what Jesus has given you. Just remember, God owes you nothing.
Dieudonne Tamfu wrote a post titled Suffering is Our Story for The Desiring God website. In his opening paragraphs, Tamfu writes:
Suffering tends to produce loneliness. We feel lonely, isolated, sealed off, and detached from others. It is common for us to believe that no one understands our pain.
We can be deceived into thinking that God is distant and uncaring. While I do not wish to invalidate these emotions, I do want to extinguish the lie that the sufferer is ever alone. We are never alone in suffering because in it we join other saints in the pattern of righteous suffering that has been going on from the inception of salvation history.
Are you or other believers around you facing rejection for your faith? Do you feel lonely in your suffering? Does it seem that God is distant and has detached himself from your pain? Do you feel disappointment, bewilderment, or dismay? Are you sitting in darkness, searching for answers and grasping for hope?
Tamfu readily admits that there are times when God seems distant (Greek for trillions of lightyears away). There are those times when God seems uncaring, content to leave Christians sitting alone in the dark, weeping uncontrollably. The good news, according to Tamfu, is that there are other Christians facing similar circumstances. Yea! You aren’t the only follower of Jesus who is writhing in pain as cancer robs you of your life! Are you suffering? Are you alone? Do you feel abandoned? Do you feel like an orphan without a coat, left in a back alley to die on a cold winter’s night? Good news! There are millions of Christians going through similar circumstances. God has abandoned them just as he has abandoned you!
When Christians go through dark trials and adversity, those who are not currently being ignored by God are called on to cheer up those who find themselves under the bootheel of God. They are encouraged to take matters to the Lord in prayer. Seek and trust the Lord, Evangelical preachers tell the downtrodden. What is it that God is trying to accomplish in your life? Remember, no matter what happens, God means it for your good. He promises to never, ever leave or forsake you.
Those under physical, emotional, or economic assault are urged to submit to the “loving” hand of God. Perhaps God is teaching you a lesson, Evangelical preachers tell the afflicted. Or maybe he is testing you or punishing you for disobedience. Regardless, God only wants what is best for Christians. His goal is to make them more like Jesus — a homeless single guy — and to prepare them for the peace and bliss that awaits on the other side of the grace. If God made life easy for Christians, preachers say, they would never appreciate Heaven and all that Jesus did for them on the cross.
Yet, despite all the flowery platitudes and blame-shifting, some Christians come to the conclusion that the reason God seems so distant is because he doesn’t exist. When help came in times of suffering, it was always their fellow humans who helped them. When prayers went unanswered, phone calls were always picked up. When bank accounts were empty and the cupboards were bare, it was family and friends who lent a helping hand. As these former Christians survey their lives, they conclude that wherever God might be, he is not on earth. At best, he is a deadbeat father who cares not for those who love and adore him. At worst, he is a cruel hoax, little more than an unfulfilled promise.
The reasons I left the Christian faith are many, but one of them is that I came to the conclusion that God is not intimately involved in the lives of those who devotedly serve and worship him, despite his promises. Over the course of fifty years as an Evangelical, I had many so-called God experiences. After I deconverted, I went back through my life and gave a reckoning of the times I thought God was blessing me, answering my prayer, or meeting my needs. A careful accounting of these events led me to conclude that the only God(s) in my life had flesh and blood bodies. Human instrumentation, and not the mighty wonder-working power of God, was the reason my prayers were answered and my needs were met.
While there were certainly a handful of unexplained events, these moments in time were not enough to lead me to the conclusion that God is who and what Christians claim he is. While coming to this judgment is certainly not sufficient evidence to deny the existence of God, it is enough for me to conclude that the notion of a loving, caring, hands-on God who is intimately and minutely involved in the lives of those who worship Jesus is a myth.
I am unwilling to swear allegiance to a God who cares no more for me than my cat does. My cat demands constant attention, no matter what may be going on in my life. Yet, if I found myself crying out for help, I know for certain that my cat would waddle up to my leg, rub up against it, and with a voice I have heard countless times before, would say, feed me. This is how I view the Christian God.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
