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Will the Pastor-Turned-Atheist Bruce Gerencser Go to Heaven When He Dies?

bruce-gerencser-heaven-after-death

It never ceases to amaze me the places I find my story being cussed, discussed, diagnosed, and deconstructed. The latest discussion is currently going on at the Baptist Board: A Christ Centered Community. The focus of the discussion is whether Bruce Gerencser will go to Heaven when he dies. Baptists, for the most part, believe that once a person is a saved, he is always saved. This doctrine is variously called once-saved, always-saved or eternal security. Calvinists call the doctrine the preservation or perseverance of the saints. The end is the same: a person who repents of his sin and puts his faith and trust in Jesus is eternally saved and Heaven will be his home after he dies. No matter what I do or how I live my life, be it as an adulterer or murderer, when I die angels will carry me into the Christian God’s Heaven.

Some Baptists, unwilling to allow such a miscreant as I into God’s Heaven, take another approach. He NEVER was saved, they say. This argument, by far, is the silliest I have heard over the years. What in my life as a Christian and a pastor points to some sort of fatal defect in my understanding of the gospel? Why shouldn’t my sincere testimony of faith be taken at face value? Can those who say I never was a Christian give any evidence for their claim? Of the thousands of people who heard me preach, called me pastor, or were colleagues of mine, who among them said at the time, Bruce Gerencser is not a Christian? Not one person. My life by any reasonable measurement was one of faith and devotion to Jesus Christ.

Presently, I am an atheist and a humanist. I am quite clear and forthright about how I view the past: I once was saved and now I am lost. Arminian Christians — those who believe a Christian can fall from grace and lose their salvation — have no problem squaring my storyline with their theology. They readily admit that I once was a committed follower of Jesus and now I am not. While on one hand this issue is of no importance — the Christian God is a work of fiction and of human origin — it does matter to me that people accept my story at face value. When Christians give testimony about the when, where, why, and how of God saving them, I believe them. While I certainly think there are psychological, sociological, and cultural reasons for such stories, I do accept at face value that Christians believe their stories to be true (as I did as a Christian for many years). All I ask is that Christians do the same, regardless of whether they can square my storyline with their peculiar theology. It’s my story, and who better to tell it than I?

I hope readers will stop by the Baptist Board and read their discussion. The comment that amused me the most was the one that said, “I think it would be very interesting to sit across the table from him, maybe a different doctrinal take would have yielded different fruit.” I would love to know exactly what “doctrinal take” would have led to a different outcome for me spiritually? Having spent the years from ages fifteen to fifty studying the Bible and reading countless theological tomes, I highly doubt that there is a theological system that I am unfamiliar with. Unlike some of the men on Baptist Board (I know several of them), my theology changed over the years. I began my life as a Christian and a pastor as an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB). I left the IFB church movement in the late 1980s, spending the next decade in Sovereign Grace and Reformed Baptist circles. In the late 1990s, my theological (and political and social) beliefs began to creep leftward, finally finding a home in Emergent/Emerging/Red-letter Christian circles. When I left the ministry in 2005, my theological views were such that I no longer considered myself an Evangelical. In the three years between leaving the ministry and walking away from Christianity, I committed myself to seeking out a Christianity that mattered. During this time, Polly and I, along with three of our children, attended over one hundred churches. You can see the list of churches we attended here. I concluded after three years that Christian churches are all pretty much the same — social clubs that exist for the benefit of their members. Regardless of their ecclesiology, soteriology, and liturgy, churches are pretty much like hamburger joints: McDonald’s, Wendy’s, Burger King, Sonic, Carl’s Jr, or Five Guys. The way the hamburgers are cooked and with what condiments they are served with vary from chain to chain, but one thing remains the same: a hamburger is a hamburger. So it is with Christians and the churches they attend. No matter how special they think their church is, once the bun and condiments are removed, what’s left is a 1/4-1/3 pound round hamburger. Except for Wendy’s, that is. Perhaps they are the One True Hamburger Joint®.

I certainly wouldn’t mind there being life after death — that is, as long as it is not the Evangelical version of heavenly bliss. I have no interest in spending eternity praising and worshiping the Christian God. Now, if Heaven is a pain-free version of the present, beam me up Scotty, I’m ready to go. However, if Heaven is as Evangelicals say it is, count me out. This life is enough. Live for today, for tomorrow we die. And then? Nothing.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Evangelical Ripoff of Captain America

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In keeping with the Evangelical spirit of ripping off the “world”, Michael Mock has re-purposed Ephesians 6:10-17, giving the passage a Captain America vibe:

Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full Captain America Costume of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the Red Skull, against Hydra, against the powers of Ultron and against the spiritual forces of evil in the Nine Realms. Therefore put on the full Captain America Costume of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of useful stuff buckled round your waist, with the reinforced Kevlar shirt of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted into snazzy boots with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the vibranium shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of Hawkeye or the evil one. Take the heroic mask of salvation and the plasma gun of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

The Sounds of Fundamentalism: All You Need is Faith in God by R.W. Schambach

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This is the one hundred and thirty-ninth installment in The Sounds of Fundamentalism series. This is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a video clip that shows the crazy, cantankerous, or contradictory side of Evangelical Christianity, please send me an email with the name or link to the video. Please do not leave suggestions in the comment section.  Let’s have some fun!

Today’s Sound of Fundamentalism is a video clip of Pentecostal R.W. Schambach healing the sick and disabled.

Video Link

The Sounds of Fundamentalism: Pick Up Your Bed and Walk by A.A. Allen

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This is the one hundred and thirty-eighth installment in The Sounds of Fundamentalism series. This is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a video clip that shows the crazy, cantankerous, or contradictory side of Evangelical Christianity, please send me an email with the name or link to the video. Please do not leave suggestions in the comment section.  Let’s have some fun!

Today’s Sound of Fundamentalism is a video clip of Pentecostal A.A. Allen healing a man of cancer.

Video Link

Songs of Sacrilege: Jesus’ Brother Bob by The Arrogant Worms

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This is the one hundred and thirty-seventh installment in the Songs of Sacrilege series. This is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a song that is irreverent towards religion, makes fun of religion, pokes fun at sincerely held religious beliefs, or challenges the firmly held religious beliefs of others, please send me an email.

Today’s Song of Sacrilege is Jesus’ Brother Bob by The Arrogant Worms.

Video Link

Lyrics

If you haven’t heard of me I wouldn’t be surprised
I bet you know my relatives their names will never die
My mother is a saint and my brother is a God
But all I am is Jesus’ brother Bob

CHORUS

Jesus’ brother Bob, Jesus’ brother Bob
A nobody relative of the son of God
If only I’d been born just a little sooner
I’d be more than the brother of God junior

I have to pay the ferry to cross the Galilee
But not my brother, no not him, he walks across for free
I finally get to work ’bout a quarter after nine
Already he’s turning water into wine

CHORUS

One day when I was home I heard a mighty roar
There were a thousand people right outside the door
“Help us Jesus, help us” came the cheering from the mob
Then they got a look at me, “Oh nuts, it’s only Bob.”

CHORUS

He died upon the cross, I thought that I was free
Finally people would get to know me for me
This was my big chance to finally get ahead
The next thing you know he’s rising from the dead

CHORUS

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Watching “Sin” on the TV by Jeff Maples

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The biblical principle is simple. If it’s sinful to perform and produce, it’s sinful to watch. But the American church is so morally degenerate that she will not accept this. I understand that this is a very unpopular position to take. Some of the greatest Christian minds will disagree with me on this. Why? Because, for some reason, we have conditioned ourselves to accept “artistic” representations of sin as acceptable. “A swear word here or there won’t cause me to stumble.” But that’s just the thing, you’ve already stumbled. Immersing yourself into something sinful is sinful.

It does us no good to turn from our sin if we have no desire to completely separate from sin. How can we say that we’ve repented–that we hate sin–if we still desire to watch it? Will God allow this kind of entertainment in Heaven? Have the desires of your heart really changed if you’re a believer? If not, perhaps you should seriously examine yourself. Living out your depravity through television shows, movies, and entertainment is no different than living it out in real life. It merely assuages your conscience, leading you to believe that you don’t desire to sin, while the truth is, you very well may still be a twisted, barbaric fornicating pornographer and blasphemer at heart.

What a tool Satan has in leading the world away from God.

— Jeff Maples, Pulpit & Pen, How Entertainment Has the Church in Bondage to Sin, November 28, 2016

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Motherhood the Only Job for Women That Matters by Lori Alexander

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A mother who is a doctor or nurse can help people get better but they will all die eventually.

A mother who is a lawyer can win some cases but only those who love Jesus win in the end.

A mother who is a teacher can have an influence in her students’ lives for one year but what they learn in this life is very temporary.

A mother who is an actress or singer entertains a lot of strangers for a while.

A mother who is a salesperson sells things that will all burn one day.

A mother who is in the military, police or fire department may save lives temporarily but only very temporarily since life is short compared to eternity.

A mother who spends her child-bearing years raising, training, and teaching children full time have the opportunity to build God’s kingdom here on earth and for eternity.

Which job do you think is the most important one for mothers?

….

Not one of the other jobs does God call a heritage of the LORD and a reward. Even Mother Theresa spent her life helping children. “How can there be too many children? That is like saying their are too many flowers.” Our children and grandchildren are our greatest treasures. Nothing in this world even comes close. It grieves me to hear young married couples who are not interested in having children or postponing having them because of the wife’s career.

— Lori Alexander, The Transformed Wife, Only One Job For Mothers Lasts for Eternity, November 29, 2016

The Sounds of Fundamentalism: Praise Jesus! Donald Trump Won! by Jim Bakker

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This is the one hundred and thirty-seventh installment in The Sounds of Fundamentalism series. This is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a video clip that shows the crazy, cantankerous, or contradictory side of Evangelical Christianity, please send me an email with the name or link to the video. Please do not leave suggestions in the comment section.  Let’s have some fun!

Today’s Sound of Fundamentalism is a video clip of con artist Jim Bakker and friends thanking Jesus for electing Donald Trump.

Video Link

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Evangelical Churches Are Businesses by Perry Noble

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Some may argue the church is not a business — I would disagree. After all, at one point in serving as the Senior Pastor of NewSpring Church I was responsible for 425 employees and a $63,000,000 budget — which takes way more than a prayer meeting to manage! What Jesus taught me I believe can be used to help you as well.

— Former pastor of NewSpring Church and alcoholic Perry Noble

After a stint in rehab, Noble has started a church (business) consulting operation — I Want My Church to Grow. Here’s the WHY (besides needing money) Noble gives for starting his business:

You want your church to grow. Not only that, Jesus wants your church to grow.

You know that if your church grows then more people will be influenced with the gospel, and in your heart you know that is a good thing.

However, it seems every report we see in both secular and Christian media screams that the church is declining and is in danger of being marginalized.

Not only that, when you express a desire to want your church to grow you seem to get the greatest amount of resistance from people who actually are in the church and claim to be Christians.

Jesus said to go and reach the world, and to do it through the local church! In your heart you know the local church has greater potential to change the world than politics, entertainment or social justice movements.  But when it comes to making this happen you feel like you are hitting a wall and feel confused, discouraged and may even be tempted at times to just throw in the towel.

I get it, I know how frustrating and heartbreaking the leadership journey in the local church can be.

However, I think the leadership struggle is worth it.

Jesus changed entire communities through what He did in this movement.

And here is what I know: if He can use someone like me, then He can absolutely use you to accomplish immeasurably more than you could ever ask or imagine.

During my 16 years at NewSpring Church we saw 15 people in a living room grow to over 35,000 in attendance at 17 different locations and over 50,000 decisions for Christ in 16 years.  And I believe with all my heart that if Jesus did great things in the church I served, He can do them in the church you serve as well.

My heart it to take the lessons I learned at NewSpring and help your church really clarify your vision and unify your staff and congregation, which I believe will result in exponential growth for your church.  (At the bottom is a list of the specific things we can work on, depending on your specific desires/needs.)

Schedule a call and let’s see what we can do to figure out how your church can accomplish more in your community than you ever imagined possible.

God is a big God, His followers should have big dreams and the church should not let the world outdo us or out-dream us.
I know you don’t want your church to be average or a mere statistic that says the church is dying.

Jesus said He would build His church, and your church is not the exception.  Let’s chat about what we can do to set your church up for healthy, lasting growth.

Thank you, Perry Noble, for illustrating my contention that megachurches are massive businesses, corporate giants out to dominate the Evangelical market.

UPDATED: Village of Archbold Removes Christian References From Their Website and Logo

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Before and After

After the publishing of my recent letter to the editor, I found out that the correspondence from the Freedom From Religion Foundation about the village of Archbold’s logo and website went to former mayor Jim Wyse, not Jeff Fryman. I apologize for making this factual error.

Bruce

Please see my correspondence with Mayor Fryman at the end of this post.

Letter submitted on November 23, 2016 to the editor of the Defiance Crescent-News.

Dear Editor,

I write in response to the recent Crescent-News article about the Village of Archbold removing Christian references from their website and logo. Contrary to what Mayor Fryman has stated publicly, Archbold did not remove the offending references until they were contacted by the Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF). I am a member of the FFRF and I know for a fact that Mayor Fryman was sent several letters about this issue. He chose to ignore the letters until it became likely that FFRF would initiate legal action against the village if they failed to remove the Christian references from their logo and website. Does anyone really believe that Mayor Fryman would make these changes without being forced to do so? I know I don’t.

Mayor Fryman wisely acted, knowing that a failure to do so would result in legal action that would most certainly be decided in the favor of FFRF.  In losing, the village of Archbold could be required to pay damages and attorney fees. Perhaps the village’s legal advisors told him that the law is clear: government entities are not permitted to endorse or support sectarian religions. By using Christian imagery in its logo and saying Archbold is a Christian community, Archbold officials are specifically endorsing Christianity. Such endorsements are against the law.

It matters not that most of the residents of Archbold are Christians. The idea that because a community has a religious majority, its government should have the right to endorse and support that particular religion is not only unconstitutional, it’s dangerous. Imagine, for a moment, that the majority of Archbold residents are Muslim. Would an Evangelical/Mennonite minority be okay with the mayor and village council endorsing and supporting Islam? Of course not! Imagine the outrage if the village’s website said Archbold is a Muslim community.

Even more absurd is the notion that communities should govern according to majority rule and that controversial decisions should be decided by putting the issues on the ballot. Let the people, decide! zealots say. Majority rule is mob governance. We elect leaders who we hope will act fairly, justly, and in accordance with the law. And the law is clear on government support and endorsement of religion — it is illegal. If Christians don’t like this, they are free to amend the Constitutions and change the law.

Bruce Gerencser
Ney, Ohio

Note:

Here’s one of the responses I allude to in this letter:

Dear Editor,

It was with great distress that I read in the Nov. 17 edition that the Village of Archbold has capitulated to the Freedom from Religion group to remove from the community seal the picture of the church, and Christian community from all signs, letterheads and the village’s seal.

I use the word capitulate because as I read the Bill of Rights and Constitution, nowhere in these documents does it say our nation is to be free from religious expression. Archbold, as a community of American citizens, has the constitutional reaffirmation to call themselves a Christian community, and or place a picture of a house of worship on their seal. And I challenge anyone, up to and including the justices of The Supreme Court of the United States, to show me where in the foundational documents and Constitution they have a right to demand this nation’s citizens, whether singular or a community, give up it’s freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

Amendment 1: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceable to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

Nowhere in this document does it sate, “separation of church and state.” This discussion came along much later and was taken from a private conversation and was bastardized by those like the Freedom from Religion group! No court anywhere in the United States has the right to alter the meaning of the First Amendment. No court, not even Congress which has the power to make laws.

So why do the officials in Archbold capitulate to a subversive group such as the Freedom from Religion group, even over the objections of the people of Archbold? At the very least this should have been discussed and then voted on by the people of Archbold. Then the officials of Archbold have the audacity to replace the statement, “A Christian Community” with “A Community with Integrity!”

Sorry, I don’t think so.

Rev. Alvia McEwen Martis (pastor of Zion Lutheran Church, Ridgeville Corners, Ohio)
Ridgeville Corners

Here’s the press release from the Freedom From Religion Foundation

An Ohio village has removed a religious seal and declaration after objections from the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a national state/church watchdog organization.

The seal of the village of Archbold contained a church at its center, nestled within images of education, farming, forestry and industry. The seal was featured in a number of places, including government buildings, street signs, village forms and documents, such as utility bills, and on the official website. The website also contained on its history page a declaration that Archbold a “Christian community.”

Such a seal and statement were unconstitutional, FFRF informed the village.

“The inclusion of a church on the official village seal and declaration that the village ‘is a Christian community’ violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment,” FFRF Legal Fellow Madeline Ziegler wrote to Archbold Mayor Jim Wyse last year. “Federal courts have ruled that similar seals violate the Establishment Clause.”

FFRF suggested to the village that changing the seal would make sense in other ways, as well. Nearly 30 percent of Americans are non-Christian, including 43 percent of Millennials, practicing a minority religion or no religion at all. To have a religious seal and declaration alienates and ostracizes this huge portion of the population.

It took a lot of time and three follow-up letters, but FFRF has been able to persuade the village of Archbold. The seal has been changed to remove the cross. (The Christian declaration was removed from the website immediately after FFRF’s first letter.)

FFRF is gratified at its ability to change minds.

“We’re happy that we were finally able to persuade the village,” says FFRF Co-President Annie Laurie Gaylor. “The church symbol and the declaration of Christian heritage were blatant endorsements of a particular religion.”

The Freedom From Religion Foundation is a national nonprofit organization with more than 23,000 nonreligious members across the country, including 600-plus in Ohio.

Here’s a link to the original letter sent to the village of Archbold.

Update

Archold mayor Jeff Fryman contacted me about my letter to the editor. This is what he had to say and my response.

Mr. Gerencser, you don’t know me, but referred to me in a recent letter to the editor. I have been Mayor for only 11 months in Archbold. You made a statement that you know for a “fact” I have received several letters from the FFRF. That statement was totally untrue. I received one that was handed to me by the former mayor and was addressed to him. I never received any correspondence from the FFRF or any member. Furthermore, I was unaware that any other correspondence had ever been received by the Mayor at the time he gave me that letter. It is true that as a group we decided not to respond.

Looking at your background, it’s unfortunate that you would make statements like this regarding my credibility and character when you haven’t done your research. But this is what I have come to know about groups like the FFRF. Little on facts. Big on fear. I think you are better than this.

Respectfully, Jeff Fryman

Jeff,

I based my statement on the reports in the Archbold Buckeye. I was not aware until after I wrote my letter that a different mayor received the FFRF contacts.

The fact remains that you bear the burden of the previous mayor’s actions. I apologize for erring in getting the name of the mayor right. I don’t apologize for challenging your assertion that the logo and website changes were in the works prior to contact with The FFRF. If you can provide evidence to the contrary, I’d love to see it. If these changes were discussed prior to the FFRF contact, surely there are minutes or committee reports that reflect this. If not, I will assume that my statements are correct.

The fact also remains the logo and website violated the law. This matter has been litigated thousands of times over the years. In almost every instance, the courts have sided with those demanding a strict separation between church and state.

As the mayor of Archbold, you represent all its citizens, not just Christians. You are duty bound to maintain the secular nature of government regardless of the religious beliefs of your constituents .

I will attach our discussion here to my blog post on the matter, correcting the mistake I made concerning who received the FFRF correspondence. I will also let the Crescent-News know of the correction.

Instead of taking cheap shots at FFRF, I hope you will consider how breaching the wall of separation of church and state harms our democracy. Having spent my entire life intimately connected to Evangelical Christianity, I know for a fact that if you give theists an inch they will take a mile. FFRF demands may seem petty to you, but better to kill the theocratic baby in the cradle than watch it grow into a monster that demands fealty to the Christian God.

I wish you well. If you feel I have not adequately addressed your objections, please email at brucexxx@gmail.com

Bruce Gerencser