Every year or two, I ask readers to submit questions they want me to answer. That time has arrived once again. Any question. Any subject. Please leave your questions in the comment section or send them to me via email. I will try to answer them in the order received.
I look forward to reading and answering your questions. Spelling, grammar, and structure corrected and edited for readability.
Revival “I Lie for Jesus Fires,” asked the following question:
I have noticed on more than one post here that you talk about whiskey and beer drinking.
Sadly, a lot of people raised in church, and who have truly accepted Jesus, sometimes get it in their head that they “missed out” on partying and drinking from their teens and 20s and will want to do it in their 50s and 60s — such is the case with my mother-in-law.
Did you betray Jesus because you wanted to drink alcohol and get drunk?
I was in my forties before I drank the Devil’s brew for the first time. As an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB), I was a teetotaler — as were my fellow church members. As an atheist and a humanist, I am free to drink alcohol any time I want. We have a well-stocked liquor cabinet and beer in the refrigerator. Typically, I drink whiskey, mixed drinks, or wine three or four times a month. Polly is primarily a beer and wine drinker. Neither of us has been drunk. I take narcotic pain meds, so I must limit my alcohol intake. Polly will drink a couple of beers and glasses of wine on the weekends, as will our oldest daughter Bethany.
My desire to drink alcohol played no part in my deconversion. That would be a silly reason to deconvert, wouldn’t it? Hey Jesus, I want my sins forgiven and I want to go to Heaven after I die, but I want to drink whiskey, beer, and wine more, so no thanks on salvation. Of course, the Bible does not condemn alcohol drinking. Jesus drank alcoholic wine, as did most people alive during his time. The Bible calls drunkenness a sin, but not social drinking.
Revival Fires asks if I am trying to live my youthful years now; if I am trying to do things I missed out on as a young adult. Christian Fundamentalism robbed me of many normal experiences, so, yes, I am trying to do some of the things that were forbidden years ago. I only wish I had a young man’s body. Alas, I make do with what I got. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
These days, I enjoy drinking an occasional glass of wine, shot of whisky, or a variety of other concoctions containing alcohol. However, enjoying the fruits and grains of God’s Creation® has not always been my habit. Being raised in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church meant that I heard countless sermons on the evils of alcohol. My parents didn’t drink, and neither did I. I was almost forty-five years old before I drank alcohol, and then I only did it because I thought it might help with my pain. (It didn’t. I quickly learned that I have to drink a lot of alcohol before I feel its effects.) It has only been since I left Christianity that I have felt the freedom to drink alcohol at home and socially.
As a youth, the frequent sermons I heard about the dangers of drinking alcohol made a deep psychological impression on me. How could it not? Week after week, month after month, and year after year, the pastors and youth directors of the churches I attended made sure that congregants knew that drinking alcohol would lead a person straight to Hell. As with many forbidden behaviors, preachers used violent, bloody, extreme stories to illustrate their anti-booze sermons, not-so-subtly reminding us that if we touched one drop of the Devil’s brew, we too could face such calamities and even death.
How did these men of God justify their anti-alcohol crusading on a Biblical basis? The Bible says:
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. (Proverbs 20:1)
Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them! (Isaiah 5:11)
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:21)
Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again. (Proverbs 23:29-35)
It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. (Proverbs 31:4,5)
But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. (Isaiah 28:7)
For much of my life, these verses were sufficient to keep me from drinking alcohol. It wasn’t until the late 1990s that I took another look at what the Bible actually said about alcohol. I found that the preachers of my youth, though well-intentioned, were misusing what the Bible said to advance a moralistic code of conduct. To do so, they only focused on Bible verses that propped up their teetotaling views. I never heard sermons quoting these verses:
Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. (Ecclesiastes 9:7)
The Lord hath sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength, Surely I will no more give thy corn to be meat for thine enemies; and the sons of the stranger shall not drink thy wine, for the which thou hast laboured: But they that have gathered it shall eat it, and praise the Lord; and they that have brought it together shall drink it in the courts of my holiness. (Isaiah 62:8,9)
He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man’s heart. (Psalm 104:14,15)
Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. (Isaiah 55:1)
And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household. (Deuteronomy 14:26)
Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more. (Proverbs 31:6,7)
As I delved into the meaning of the Hebrew and Greek words used for wine and strong drink, I concluded that it was impossible to support abstinence from alcohol from the Bible. While the Bible clearly condemns drunkenness, it does not forbid drinking alcohol in moderation; moderation being a word rarely used in IFB circles.
The text that finally convinced me that it was okay for people to drink alcohol in moderation was John 2:1-11 — the story where Jesus turned water into wine:
And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
In John 2, we have Jesus attending a wedding at Cana — likely the wedding of someone he knew or a family member. Fermented wine drinking was a normal, everyday part of Jewish life in first-century Palestine. It is not unreasonable to think that Jesus regularly drank wine. Attempts by Evangelicals to turn Jesus into a Welch’s-grape-juice-drinking temperance crusader are ludicrous and not supported by the Biblical text. No one who has studied this issue thinks that the wine served at this wedding was non-alcoholic. What sealed the deal for me was this: the people at the wedding called Jesus’ wine creation good wine. Would first-century Jews consider non-alcoholic wine “good” wine? Of course not. There is only one conclusion that an honest seeker of truth can come to: Jesus drank fermented wine and turned water into alcoholic wine so others could drink it.
Some Evangelical teetotalers, knowing that the Biblical text does NOT condemn moderate alcohol drinking, turn to other arguments in their attempts to keep people from enjoying beer, wine, and spirits. Here are a few of the arguments I have heard over the years:
The wine and strong drink in Bible times had less alcohol content. One notable preacher said that the alcohol content was likely one percent! Imagine how much one-percent wine someone would have to drink to, according to Solomon in Ecclesiastes, feel merry in heart.
Drinking alcohol could cause us to make poor decisions or sin against God, thus it is better to abstain than to put ourselves in danger of sinning. Neither give place to the devil. (Ephesians 4:27)
Being seen in public buying or drinking alcohol could cause people to think poorly of us, even causing sinners to reject Christianity. Since having a good testimony is paramount, the best thing to do is to never buy or drink beer, wine, or spirits. Abstain from all appearance of evil. (1 Thessalonians 5:22)
The most common argument used to justify abstinence was the stumbling brother argument. The thinking goes something like this: Christians should never do anything that could cause a fellow believer to stumble and fall into sin. Better to refrain from doing something than to be the reason a weak Christian ends up at the bar on Friday night downing shots of whisky. The Biblical justification for this line of thinking is found in Romans 14:17-21:
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Evangelical churches often have numerous members who were alcoholics before Jesus (or AA) “saved” them. According to the stumbling brother argument, because some church members were alcoholics before they were saved, fellow Christians should go out of their way to not do anything that would cause them to go back to their former way of life. This line of thinking suggests that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not enough to keep some Christians from returning to a life of sin, so everyone else must be punished for their weaknesses. Of course, this is absurd. Christians, along with the rest of humanity, can be addicted to all sorts of behaviors. Ever notice how fat many Evangelical — especially Baptist — preachers there are? I often kidded church members that gluttony is the only sin permitted in the Baptist church. If helping fellow Christians to avoid stumbling into sin is the goal, shouldn’t churches stop having fellowship dinners? Shouldn’t church women wear burqas, so former porn addicts, adulterers, and fornicators aren’t tempted to return to their former ways of life? Shouldn’t Christians voluntarily get rid of their televisions, lest those who can’t control their viewing of “sinful” things on the Hellivsion® are tempted to watch HBO?
See how silly this kind of thinking is? Besides, it robs people of being responsible for their own behavior. This is little more than what I call Flip Wilson thinking — the DEVIL made me do it. Evangelicalism turns people into hapless, pathetic creatures who go through life fearing that sin and destruction are only a decision away. As a result, Evangelicals miss out on much of what non-Evangelicals and unbelievers consider a normal part of life. We only have one life, and it will soon be past. Shouldn’t we enjoy it while we can? Instead of condemning alcohol drinking, perhaps Evangelicals should practice moderation and teach their children how to drink responsibly. Much like with sex, Evangelicals turn alcohol drinking into a larger-than-life demon that will destroy lives unless it is avoided at all costs. Yes, for some, drinking alcohol can and does cause harm, but then virtually anything can cause harm when used in excess. Evangelical parents are so obsessed with their children avoiding the world and its supposedly negative influences that they fail to teach them how to make thoughtful, responsible decisions. Just Say NO becomes the mantra to live by, but as most worldlings know, such a black-and-white view of the world rarely works. In fact, such thinking actually makes it more likely for Christian teens and young adults to get caught up in “sinful” behaviors when they are away from the ever-watchful eyes of their preachers and parents or out on their own at college. Instead of prohibition, perhaps teaching responsible drinking is the right path to maturity. Doing this, of course, means ignoring the Bible — or at least certain verses anyway.
Today, our home sports a well-stocked liquor cabinet. Polly and I are free to drink whenever we want, even to excess. Channeling the ghosts of hippies past, we subscribe to the notion, if it feels good, do it (with the caveat that our behavior does not harm anyone). We seldom drink in public, and when we do, it is rarely more than a drink or two. Our children are lustful imbibers of the fruit of the vines and grains of the field, but like their parents, they never drive an automobile after drinking alcohol. Most often, Polly and I drink at home, content to drink a few glasses of wine on the weekend. Neither of us is a beer drinker, though Polly has of late, thanks to our oldest sons, found a few beers she likes. I tend to like hard liquor, Polly doesn’t. Neither of us has been drunk, though I have seen Polly quite happy a time or two. While our drinking of alcohol saddens Polly’s IFB parents, we no longer hide the bottles when they are around. Drinking alcohol is a part of our lives now, and we see no reason to hide our “sin” from anyone. When our family gathers together for special events, beer and/or wine are part of the festivities. On those occasions when attendees drink more than they should, they always leave our home driven by someone not under the influence of Satan’s deadly elixir.
The overarching rule of our lives is that we only get one opportunity to live, so we might as well enjoy our short time on earth. For many people, drinking alcohol is a part of their enjoyment of life. For others, it is not. Live and let live, each to his own — clichés to be sure, but they do reflect how Polly and I view the behavior of others. As long as someone’s behavior is not causing harm to himself or others, it is none of our business. This rule applies to virtually every aspect of human behavior. My fellow humans do things that I would NEVER do, but as long as they aren’t harming themselves or others, who am I to object? And I, at times, take this even further. If people are doing something that might potentially cause physical harm to themselves, I see no reason to object to their behavior. People are going to do what people do. Can premarital sex cause harm? Sure, but then so can marital sex. Eating too much of certain foods or skydiving can cause personal harm, but so can being a vegetarian and driving rather than flying on airplanes. Life is filled with risk and danger. The best any of us can do is to weigh the risks and act accordingly. No one gets out of this life without making a few errant risk calculations. That we lived to tell about them is all the reason more to embrace life and live with it gusto!
Did you grow up in a religion and/or a home that forbade the drinking of alcohol? Please share your experiences in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Several years ago, The Foundations of Morality blog posted an article by “Dr.” David Brown that gives seven reasons why Christians should NEVER, EVER drink alcoholic beverages (links have been removed due to the malware they serve up):
Drinking leads to drunkenness
The Bible condemns strong drink
In Bible times what Christians drank was sub-alcoholic, basically purified water
It will call others to stumble
It harms our bodies which are the Lord’s
Alcohol is addictive
Believers are kings and priests separated unto God
Are you ready, contestants? It’s time to play The Evangelical Never, Ever Game.
Using David Brown’s “logic,” I can come to the following conclusion:
Eating food leads to gluttony
The Bible condemns gluttony
Gluttony will cause others to stumble
Gluttony harms our bodies
Eating food is addictive
Conclusion? Don’t eat food.
Wasn’t that fun? Let’s play another round.
Sex leads to fornication and adultery
The Bible condemns fornication and adultery
Fornication and adultery will cause others to stumble
Fornication and adultery harm our bodies (not really, but Christians think they do)
Sex is addictive
Conclusion? Don’t have sex.
Isn’t this game fun? Feel free to continue playing the game in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
This is the one hundred seventy-fourth installment in the Songs of Sacrilege series. This is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a song that is irreverent towards religion, makes fun of religion, pokes fun at sincerely held religious beliefs, or challenges the firmly held religious beliefs of others, please send me an email.
Today’s Songs of Sacrilege is The Spirit Bears The Curse by Derek Webb. Webb, formerly part of Contemporary Christian Music group Caedmon’s Call, is now an unbeliever. The song “sounds” like a praise and worship song until the end, and then takes an interesting turn.
help me to forget
all of my regret
i know you’re strong enough to do the job
you go by many names
forever stay the same
your promises i claim
you’re all i’ve got
we gather here because we know
there’s nowhere else that we can go
where we can be really free
so we raise our voice
we raise an offering
would you come near
and quench our thirst
oh, lift our hearts
as the spirit bears the curse
oh, we depend on you
we know that you’ll come through
we feel it instantly when you move
it’s more than chemistry
more than community
you enter into me
you’re in my veins
you bear the weight of all our grief
uncertainty and unbelief
oh, you restore our sanity
so we raise our voice
we raise an offering
would you come near
and quench our thirst
oh, lift our hearts
as the spirit bears the curse
now my knees are weak
my speech is slurred
oh, the things you shake
oh, the things you stir
i am calling out the only name
that delivers me from my guilt and shame
oh, alcohol
alcohol
oh, alcohol
we raise our voices for alcohol
alcohol
an offering for alcohol
alcohol
oh, alcohol
oh, alcohol
The Black Collar Crime Series relies on public news stories and publicly available information for its content. If any incorrect information is found, please contact Bruce Gerencser. Nothing in this post should be construed as an accusation of guilt. Those accused of crimes are innocent until proven guilty.
Robert Batcho, pastor of Saint Nicholas Ukrainian Catholic Church in Elmira Heights, New York, was accused today of illegally giving alcohol to four minors.
A local church leader was arrested after being accused of giving alcohol to minors.
According to the Elmira Heights Police Department, 60-year-old Robert J. Batcho is facing four counts of unlawfully dealing with a child. Batcho is the pastor at the Saint Nicholas Ukrainian Catholic Church in Elmira Heights.
Police say he gave beer to four minors, where he lives on McCann’s Boulevard.
This is the eighty-sixth installment in The Sounds of Fundamentalism series. This is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a video clip that shows the crazy, cantankerous, or contradictory side of Evangelical Christianity, please send me an email with the name or link to the video. Please do not leave suggestions in the comment section. Let’s have some fun!
Today’s Sound of Fundamentalism is a video clip of sermon preached in 1929 by Evangelist Billy Sunday. Sunday traveled the nation preaching against sin and calling people to repentance. In doing so he became quite wealthy, losing his children to the very sins he preached against. Wikipedia states:
Tragedy marred Sunday’s final years. His three sons engaged in many of the activities he preached against, and the Sundays paid blackmail to several women to keep the scandals relatively quiet. In 1930, their housekeeper and nanny, who had become a virtual member of the family, died. Then the Sundays’ daughter, the only child actually raised by Nell, died in 1932 of what seems to have been multiple sclerosis.Their oldest son George, rescued from financial ruin by the Sundays, committed suicide in 1933.
Jack Hyles, First Baptist Church, Hammond, Indiana
This is the fifty-sixth installment in The Sounds of Fundamentalism series. This is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a video clip that shows the crazy, cantankerous, or contradictory side of Evangelical Christianity, please send me an email with the name or link to the video. Please do not leave suggestions in the comment section. Let’s have some fun!
Today’s Sound of Fundamentalism is a clip taken from a sermon preached by Jack Hyles, pastor of First Baptist Church, Hammond, Indiana.
According to Bryan, Ohio resident L. Jay Nafziger, Satan, the head toker himself, is behind efforts to legalize marijuana in Ohio. Nafziger had this to say in a letter to the editor of the Defiance Crescent-News:
Did legalizing alcohol in the USA make our world a better place to live in? Why not ask one of the thousands who have had a loved one tragically killed by a drunk driver.
Did legalizing abortion make the world a better place to live in? Definitely not for the millions of unborn children who never had the chance to live outside the womb.
Has legalized tobacco smoking made the world a better place to live in? Long before medical science “proved” that cigarette smoke is not good for the smoker or anyone else, good, old-fashioned, outdated, uncommon, common sense could tell a person that drawing smoke of any kind into your lungs over a period of time will probably cause problems.
So who is to say that legalizing pot will make the world a better place to live in? Time and time again, many FDA approved “safe” prescription drugs have been pulled off the market because they were found to be “not so safe” after all.
I will admit that I think it is hypocritical for any government, society or culture to accept and allow alcohol, abortion and tobacco while not allowing marijuana. But then, on the other hand, how about this gateway drug thing? If marijuana is legalized, why not heroin and methamphetamine, and why limit prescription drugs?
Why not get rid of all hypocrisy and judgement and let anyone do anything they want to at anytime as long as they are not “hurting” someone else? And it could all be so good for the economy! Did you just detect my sarcasm?
The greatest evil of all is not alcohol, abortion, tobacco or marijuana, but Satan himself, the father of lies. One of his biggest lies is that we (human beings created in the image of God) can/should disregard the laws (ten commandments) of God (creator of the universe and everything in it) and instead, find happiness and fulfillment in life by “doing our own thing if it feels good, do it.” Then, when we get into trouble and aren’t feeling so good, he (Satan) offers us a short term solution or “fix” like alcohol, abortion, tobacco or marijuana, which can ultimately cause us more pain and dissolution than we had in the beginning.
My new, progressive, updated, upgraded, evolved mindset of 2015 says, “No, do not legalize pot.” Any outdated mindset that keeps another “evil” from being legalized is far better than any updated mindset that says “smoking marijuana is good for you.” How can a person know for sure that they are not being lied to, not by just another human being but by Satan himself?
God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it. John 3. 17.
Jesus is the way, not cannibas. Jesus is the truth, not cannibas. Jesus is the light, not cannibas.
I think Nofziger’s letter speaks for itself. He asks “did you just detect my sarcasm?” No, but I did detect the signs of a fundamentalist lobotomy.
I have several questions for Nofziger. If God is the creator of everything, who created marijuana? And tobacco? And alcohol? If drinking alcohol is a sin, was Jesus sinning when he drank wine and turned the water into wine? What about the verses in the Bible that suggest giving a sick and dying man alcohol to ease his suffering? If marijuana can ease the suffering of someone, shouldn’t they be permitted to use it?
I did like the last sentence of his letter: Jesus is the way, not cannibas. Jesus is the truth, not cannibas. Jesus is the light, not cannibas. Ignoring the fact that Nofziger misspelled cannabis, I think Christians churches should start an evangelistic campaign that touts the superiority of Jesus to being high on marijuana. Get High on Jesus!
