It is not uncommon for Evangelical apologists to assert that atheism is a religion; that atheists put their faith in science. Apologists also claim that we all worship something, be it God, science, or self. Are any of these claims true?
Let me define atheism. Atheism is the lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. That’s it. From this starting point, atheists go on to believe all sorts of things. I am an agnostic atheist and a humanist. Atheism defines my view of God. Humanism defines the moral and ethical framework by which I govern my life. In no instance do I worship anyone or anything.
Worship means respectful devotion—loving, honoring, and obeying someone who deserves our highest regard. Worshipping God means acknowledging and celebrating His power and perfection in gratitude.
Based on these definitions, do atheists worship? No.
Evangelical apologists also claim that we all put faith in something; that atheists put their faith in science. First, atheism and science are two different things. Atheism, as stated above, is the lack of belief in the existence of God, or gods. No faith is necessary to be an atheist. Either you believe God exists or you don’t. Many apologists wrongly connect atheism and evolution. Sure, most atheists accept evolution as a scientific fact, but accepting evolution is not required to be an atheist. Atheists believe all sorts of things, including woo. These beliefs, however, have nothing to do with atheism. Many Christians accept evolution as the best explanation for how our biological world operates. Should we then say that Christianity and evolution are connected? Of course not. So it is with atheism and evolution.
Faith: not wanting to know what is true.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Faith is defined as the trust or confidence in someone or something. Regarding science, I put my faith in men and women who have spent their lifetimes in various scientific fields. I lack the requisite education necessary to speak authoritatively on anything related to science. I know what I know, and, most importantly, I know what I don’t know. Some people have spent years getting advanced degrees in science, and after university, they have devoted their lives to specific scientific disciplines. I put my faith in their expertise; a reasoned faith that values expertise.
Religion is defined as the belief in and worship of a supernatural power or powers, especially a God or gods or a particular system of faith and worship. Based on these definitions, is atheism a religion? Of course not. Again atheism is the lack of belief in the existence of God, or gods. Nothing more, nothing less. Atheism doesn’t have clerics, church buildings, Bibles, hymnbooks, or prescribed modes of worship. Atheists don’t have shrines or collect offerings to support houses of godless worship. I can’t think of any meaningful way that atheism is a religion.
While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. To put it in a more humorous way: If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Despite the fact that atheism is not a religion, atheism is protected by many of the same Constitutional rights that protect religion. That, however, does not mean that atheism is itself a religion, only that our sincerely held (lack of) beliefs are protected in the same way as the religious beliefs of others. Similarly, many “interfaith” groups will include atheists. This, again, does not mean that atheism is a religious belief.
Sadly, Evangelicals, either ignorantly or deliberately, spread the lie that atheism is a religion. Ken Ham and Bodie Hodge are liars extraordinaire; men who go to great lengths to disparage atheists. How else do we “defend” their explanation of atheism:
Almost all atheists claim that, because (supposedly) there is no God, their own worldview is not a religion. Many of them would argue that they have a “nonbelief.”
One of the definitions of religion in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, however, is this: “a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.”
Atheism certainly fits that definition, and many of its adherents are quite zealous about their faith system.
Atheists have an active belief system with views concerning origins (that the universe and life arose by natural processes); no life after death; the existence of God; how to behave while alive; and so much more. Honest atheists will admit their worldview is a faith. Atheism is a religion!
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While atheism is a blind faith, its followers will still cry out, “We are not part of a religion!” Why do they plead this? First, if atheism were identified as a religion, atheists fear that their views might get kicked out of public places, like government-run schools. Second, these secularists will be less likely to be able to deceive children into thinking that their teachings (supposedly “neutral”) are not in conflict with the religious beliefs of students.
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Anyone who claims that they are not religious and then makes judgments about religious topics (e.g., the deity of Christ, the existence of God, the morality regarding adultery, the truthfulness of the Bible, and so on) has made a religious statement. Though they may “claim” to be irreligious, they reveal that they are indeed religious when they attempt to refute another religious view.
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Does atheism oppose the religious claim that God exists? Again, yes. Thus, atheism is religious.
I don’t have faith, faith is the excuse people give for believing something when they don’t have evidence.
MATT DILLAHUNTY
As Evangelicals often do, Ham and Hodge conflate evolution and atheism. They are two separate propositions/claims. No matter how many times Ham and Hodge say atheism is a religion or requires faith, their claims are false. They have been corrected numerous times, but Ham and Hodge continue to lie about atheism.
Let me conclude with an excerpt from an Atheist Alliance International article titled Is Atheism a Religion:
‘Theism’ means ‘belief in a god or gods’. Believers usually sign up to the values and principles of a godly belief system: it’s an ideology. Theistic ideologies are commonly known as faiths or religions. Many ideologies have the suffix ‘ism’; for example, liberalism, socialism, and communism but, in the case of ‘atheism’, the ‘ism’ ending has merely been inherited from its root: ‘theism’. The prefix ‘a’ turns the meaning around to the negative, that is, ‘not a belief in a god’, so ‘atheism’ is as far from a faith or religion as it’s possible to get.
Atheism is not a belief system so that should end this article right here, but theists will likely not be satisfied. They might point to the things atheists and religions have in common: religions form churches, atheists form associations; churches and atheist associations appoint members to formal roles such as bishop and president; church members give offerings, atheists pay subscriptions; churches hold services, atheist hold meetings. Churches and atheists both have literature they value and people they admire.
The problem is, these are superficial similarities and if they make atheism a religion, they make political parties and table tennis clubs religions too. That is obviously absurd.
There is one organization that makes it their job to decide which group is a religion and which is not, and that’s The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in the USA. Religions receive highly favorable treatment in the USA and the IRS wants to avoid giving these advantages to organizations that are not genuine religions. So the IRS has a set of criteria they apply to any group claiming to be a religion. The primary criteria are listed below with how atheist groups qualify [shown in parenthesis].
Distinct legal existence [Some atheist groups are legal entities.]
Recognized creed and form of worship [No creed or forms of worship.]
Definite and distinct ecclesiastical government [No ecclesiastical governance.]
Formal code of doctrine and discipline [No doctrine.]
Distinct religious history [No religious history.]
Membership not associated with any other church or denomination [Atheists may join any number of atheist groups.]
Organization of ordained ministers [No ministers of any kind.]
Ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed courses of study [No courses of study.]
Literature of its own [No literature reserved for one group.]
Established places of worship [No worship.]
Regular religious services [No religious services.]
Sunday schools for the religious instruction of the young [No instructing the young.]
Schools for the preparation of its members [No atheist schools.]
With only one criterion applicable to atheists (and that one all political parties and many clubs share), the IRS won’t be granting religious tax exemptions to atheist groups any time soon.
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Why then do the religious so often claim atheism is a religion? We don’t know, you’ll have to ask religious people that question. Perhaps it is an attempt to drag atheism down to the level of a religion—a set of unsubstantiated beliefs, in a landscape where beliefs are held only on faith. If so, they would be completely wrong about that too.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
An Evangelical pastor whom I have known for over forty years sent me some questions, the answers to which appear below. He previously asked me some questions which I answered in a post titled, Four Questions from an Evangelical Pastor. I found his questions sincere and honest, unlike many questions I receive from Evangelicals. Far too often, ulterior motivations lurk behind some questions, but I don’t sense that here. Hopefully, readers of this blog will find my answers helpful.
Are There Different Levels of Atheism
The short answer is no. Atheism is defined thusly: disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. That’s it. Unlike Christianity — a hopelessly fragmented group — all atheists agree on one thing: atheism is the disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods. From that point, atheist beliefs go in all sorts of directions.
Strong theist. 100% probability of God. In the words of Carl Jung: “I do not believe, I know.” De facto theist.
Very high probability but short of 100%. “I don’t know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there.”Leaning towards theism.
Higher than 50% but not very high. “I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.” Completely impartial.
Exactly 50%. “God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.” Leaning towards atheism.
Lower than 50% but not very low. “I do not know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be skeptical.”
De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. “I don’t know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there.”
Strong atheist. “I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one.”
Atheists debate amongst themselves Dawkins’ scale, and whether agnostics are, in fact, atheists. Agnostics believe that the existence of God, of the divine, or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable. (Wikipedia) Another definition of agnosticism is as follows:
In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in God, whereas an atheist disbelieves in God. In the strict sense, however, agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist. In so far as one holds that our beliefs are rational only if they are sufficiently supported by human reason, the person who accepts the philosophical position of agnosticism will hold that neither the belief that God exists nor the belief that God does not exist is rational. (Richard Rowe, Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy.)
Enlightenment deism consisted of two philosophical assertions: (a) reason, along with features of the natural world, is a valid source of religious knowledge, and (b) revelation is not a valid source of religious knowledge. Different deist authors expanded on these two assertions to create what Leslie Stephen later termed the “constructive” and “critical” aspects of deism. “Constructive” assertions— assertions that deist writers felt were justified by appeals to reason and features of the natural world (or perhaps were intuitively obvious) — included:
God exists and created the universe.
God gave humans the ability to reason.
“Critical” assertions— assertions that followed from the denial of revelation as a valid source of religious knowledge— were much more numerous. They included:
Rejection of all books, including the Bible, that are claimed to contain divine revelation.
Rejection of the incomprehensible notion of the Trinity and other religious “mysteries”.
Rejection of reports of miracles, prophecies, etc.
True Christianity
All deists rejected the Bible as a book of divine revelation. If you define “a Christian” as a person who accepts the stories in the Bible as true, divine revelations, the deists were not Christians. They rejected the miracle stories in the Bible and rejected the divinity of Jesus. Many, however, accepted Jesus as an actual historical person and held him in high regard as a moral teacher. (This position is known as Christian deism and was Thomas Jefferson’s motive for assembling his famous Jefferson Bible.) On the other hand, if you define “a true Christian” as a person who regards the historical human person Jesus as a great moral teacher and attempts to follow Jesus’ moral teachings, many deists considered themselves to be true Christians. Some deists were of the opinion that Jesus taught timeless moral truths, that those moral truths were the essence of Christianity, and since those truths are timeless, they predate Jesus’ teachings.
I have long believed that someone could look at the night sky and conclude that a deity of some sort created the universe; and that after creating the universe, this deity said, “There ya go, boys and girls, do with it what you will.” This God is unknowable and non-involved in our day-to-day lives. Believe in this deity or not, it exists. Some readers of this blog will call this deity divine energy or power. Of course, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that what we call “life” is, in actuality, a Westworld-like alien game simulation. Once I was freed from the authority and bondage of the Bible, I was free to think more freely about human existence. Who knows, maybe “reality” is an illusion.
Here is my take: I am an agnostic atheist. I cannot know for certain whether a deity of some sort exists. It is possible, though unlikely, that a deity of some sort might reveal itself to us someday. Possible, but improbable. For me, it is all about probabilities. (And the probability of the existence of any deity, let alone the Evangelical God, is minuscule.) On the Dawkins scale I am a six. The currently available evidence leads me to conclude that there is no God or gods. I am open to the possibility of the existence of one or more deities should evidence of their existence ever be provided, but, until then, I live my day-to-day life as an atheist. The only time thoughts about God enter my mind is when I am writing for this blog.
That said, let me be clear: I am not an anti-theist. Some atheists are vociferously and stridently anti-religion. I am not one of them. This has led to all sorts of criticisms and attacks from what I call the Fundamentalist wing of atheism. On occasion, I have had anti-theists tell me that I am not a True Atheist®. I laugh when such arguments are made, thinking, “Is this not the same argument Evangelicals use against me when they say I was never a “True Christian®?”
Do All Atheists Rely Strictly on Science and History for Answers?
Strictly or solely? No. Once we move from the base definition of atheism, atheists go in all sorts of directions philosophically, politically, socially, and even religiously. Yep, you will run into atheists who view themselves as “spiritual.” I have been blogging for seventeen years. I have met all sorts of atheists. Over the years, several pro-Trump, anti-abortion, anti-homosexual atheists/agnostics have commented on this blog. I don’t understand their viewpoints and logic, but I don’t have to. Atheists are free to meander every which way from “atheism is the disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.” One can be an atheist and be irrational; and believe me, more than a few atheists are as dumb as rocks. Some atheists will comment on this blog and leave me scratching my head, saying “huh?” I rarely respond to such people. I let them say their piece, hoping my silence tells them all they need to know.
This would be a good point to mention the fact that most atheists are humanists. There’s nothing in atheism that gives a person moral or ethical grounding. Atheists look to humanism to find a framework by which to live their lives. The Humanist Manifesto remains the best summary of humanism:
Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity.
The lifestance of Humanism—guided by reason, inspired by compassion, and informed by experience—encourages us to live life well and fully. It evolved through the ages and continues to develop through the efforts of thoughtful people who recognize that values and ideals, however carefully wrought, are subject to change as our knowledge and understandings advance.
This document is part of an ongoing effort to manifest in clear and positive terms the conceptual boundaries of Humanism, not what we must believe but a consensus of what we do believe. It is in this sense that we affirm the following:
Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis. Humanists find that science is the best method for determining this knowledge as well as for solving problems and developing beneficial technologies. We also recognize the value of new departures in thought, the arts, and inner experience—each subject to analysis by critical intelligence.
Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humanists recognize nature as self-existing. We accept our life as all and enough, distinguishing things as they are from things as we might wish or imagine them to be. We welcome the challenges of the future, and are drawn to and undaunted by the yet to be known.
Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility.
Life’s fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals. We aim for our fullest possible development and animate our lives with a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and awe in the joys and beauties of human existence, its challenges and tragedies, and even in the inevitability and finality of death. Humanists rely on the rich heritage of human culture and the lifestance of Humanism to provide comfort in times of want and encouragement in times of plenty.
Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships. Humanists long for and strive toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence. The joining of individuality with interdependence enriches our lives, encourages us to enrich the lives of others, and inspires hope of attaining peace, justice, and opportunity for all.
Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness. Progressive cultures have worked to free humanity from the brutalities of mere survival and to reduce suffering, improve society, and develop global community. We seek to minimize the inequities of circumstance and ability, and we support a just distribution of nature’s resources and the fruits of human effort so that as many as possible can enjoy a good life.
Humanists are concerned for the well being of all, are committed to diversity, and respect those of differing yet humane views. We work to uphold the equal enjoyment of human rights and civil liberties in an open, secular society and maintain it is a civic duty to participate in the democratic process and a planetary duty to protect nature’s integrity, diversity, and beauty in a secure, sustainable manner.
Thus engaged in the flow of life, we aspire to this vision with the informed conviction that humanity has the ability to progress toward its highest ideals. The responsibility for our lives and the kind of world in which we live is ours and ours alone.
Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis. Humanists find that science is the best method for determining this knowledge as well as for solving problems and developing beneficial technologies. We also recognize the value of new departures in thought, the arts, and inner experience—each subject to analysis by critical intelligence.
Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humanists recognize nature as self-existing. We accept our life as all and enough, distinguishing things as they are from things as we might wish or imagine them to be. We welcome the challenges of the future, and are drawn to and undaunted by the yet to be known.
Do All Atheists Believe in Evolution?
Since I am not party to what all atheists believe, I can’t speak authoritatively on the matter. I can say that all of the atheists I know generally accept biological evolution as a scientific fact. While the word “belief” can be used in a variety of ways, in the context of evolution, atheists don’t believe in evolution. Belief, in this context, much like with religion, implies the use of feelings to come to a conclusion. Most atheists I know would say that their acceptance of evolution and other scientific conclusions rests on evidence, facts, and probabilities, not their feelings.
For most of my life, I was illiterate when it came to science. I believed that Genesis 1-3 told me all I needed to know about biology, cosmology, and the like. God created everything just as it is recorded in the inspired, inerrant, infallible Bible — end of discussion. I had a few creationist-oriented Evangelical apologetical books in my library. All these books did for me was affirm that I was “right.” It wasn’t until I was disabused by Dr. Bart Ehrman and others of the notion that the Bible was some sort of perfect, supernatural book that I was able to question what it was exactly I believed about science.
Let me be clear, I am not a scientist. I know a hell of a lot more about science today than I did a few years ago, or when I was a Bible-believing preacher, but that doesn’t mean I can speak authoritatively on matters of science. I continue to educate myself, but at my age, I will likely run out of time before I master any specific scientific discipline. I hope that one or more of my grandchildren will do so and become what their grandfather could not. Many of my grandchildren are straight-A students, so I have high hopes that some of them will enter STEM programs post-high school.
I know where I am lacking knowledge-wise, and I do my best to not speak beyond that which I know. Want to talk about the Bible, Evangelicalism, theology, photography, Lionel O Gauge trains, or Windows-based computers? You will find that I generally know what I am talking about. However, when it comes to biology, astronomy, cosmology, geology, archeology, and other scientific disciplines, I am, in every way, a novice. It is for this reason that I rely on experts to tell me what I need to know about science. Smart is the person who values expertise. I have certain scientists I trust to tell me the truth. “So, Bruce, does this mean you put “faith” in what they say?” Yes. Many atheists shy away from the word faith because of its religious connotations. However, I refuse to let religion hijack certain words. Faith means “confidence in a person or plan.” There are scientists that I put great confidence in; when they speak, I listen. No, these men and women are not infallible, but they have given their lives to understanding this or that science discipline, so I trust what they say.
In Christianity, There is so Much Disagreement! How About Among Atheists?
There’s no doubt that Christianity is the most fragmented religion on the planet. I have long argued that if Christians were unified theologically that I might at least pause for a moment when considering the “God question.” However, there are thousands and thousands of Christian sects, each with its own version of the “faith once delivered to the saints.” This disunity says to me that Christianity is very much of human origin.
I wish I could say that atheism is monolithic, and everyone thinks and believes the same things. Sadly, atheism is quite divided too. Not so much on the core belief: “atheism is the disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.” Every atheist I know believes this statement to be an accurate definition of their view on God or gods. However, recent years have brought attempts by some to expand the definition of atheism to include social justice issues. This spawned a group called Atheism+. While there was a moment when I thought Atheism+ might be worthwhile, I quickly thought better of it after seeing who it was that was driving this attempt to redefine atheism. Socially and politically, I am as liberal as you come, but I saw Atheism+ as a purity test; an attempt to divide atheism between us and them. I concluded that the proponents of Atheism+ were using methodologies eerily similar to those I saw in Evangelicalism. No thanks. And let me be clear to Atheism+ flag-wavers, I have zero interest in re-ligating this issue with you in the comment section. Been there, done that, still bleeding.
Here’s one thing I know about most atheists. We can heartily disagree with one another and later enjoy each other’s company at a pub or restaurant. Back in my Evangelical days, every disagreement had eternal significance. Not so with most atheists. I don’t understand how an atheist can support Donald Trump or the present iteration of the Republican Party, but I am not going to let that affect our relationship (if we have one). I have booted several pro-Trump atheists off this site, not because of their politics, but because they were assholes. And as much as I hate to admit it, there are atheist assholes; people who don’t play well with others; people who think throwing feces at people on social media is “good conversation.”
I hope I have adequately answered my Evangelical friend’s questions.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, an Evangelical pastor whom I have known for over forty years sent me some questions, the answers to which appear below. I found his questions sincere and honest, unlike many questions I receive from Evangelicals. Far too often, ulterior motivations lurk behind some questions, but I don’t sense that here. Hopefully, readers of this blog will find my answers helpful.
Bruce, do you ever feel like you’re wrong?
I am sixty-seven years old. I have been wrong more times than I can count. Over the past seventeen years, I have, on occasion, written about my wrongness, be it beliefs I held or decisions I made. As a pastor, my beliefs evolved over the course of the twenty-five years I spent in the ministry. One of the mistakes my critics make is picking a certain point in my life, and judging me from that moment in time. In doing so, they mistakenly or deliberately ignore what has come before and after. Yes, I entered the ministry as an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist. Yes, I at one time was a Jack Hyles supporter. However, my beliefs and associations continued to evolve. By the time I left the ministry in 2005, my beliefs were, compared to those I entered the ministry with, quite liberal. I entered the ministry with a narrow, judgmental view of people who called themselves Christians. I believed that my little corner of the Evangelical tent was reserved for True Christians®. Twenty-five years later, the front door of the church I pastored said, “The church where the only label that matters is Christian.”
The same could be said of my evolution politically. For many years, I was a diehard Christian nationalist who only voted Republican. I listened to Rush Limbaugh every day. In 2000, for the first time, I voted for a Democrat. By the time I moved to my current home, I was a liberal and a democratic socialist.
And finally, the same could be said of my social beliefs. I entered the ministry as an anti-abortion, patriarchal homophobe. I pastored a Baptist church in southeast Ohio for eleven years. I was well-known for my public pronouncements against abortion, women’s rights, and homosexuality. Yet, three decades later, my views have dramatically changed. I am now considered a defender of choice, women’s rights, and LGBTQ people.
People who have never changed their minds about anything — a common trait among religious Fundamentalists — look at my journey and see a man who is unstable. I, on the other hand, see a man who is willing to change his mind when confronted or challenged with facts and evidence that render his beliefs untenable.
Intellectual and personal growth only comes when we are willing to admit we are wrong. Closed-minded Fundamentalism stunts our thinking. One need only visit an IFB church to see what happens when people shut themselves off from the world and refuse to investigate and challenge their beliefs.
So, yes, I have been wrong, and I have no doubt that I will continue to be wrong. A well-lived life is one where there is ongoing progress and maturity. If I regret anything, it is that I waited way too long to give in to my doubts and questions; that I waited way too long to expose myself to people who think differently from me; that I waited too long to admit to the love of my life and my children that I was wrong.
Bruce, have you ever hesitated at all in deciding to become an atheist?
The short answer is yes, especially when I first deconverted. For a time, my mind was plagued with thoughts and fears about being wrong and God throwing me into Hell. I feared God punishing me for disobedience. I lay in bed more than a few nights wondering, “What if I am wrong?”
Over time, my doubts and fears faded into the fabric of my life. It’s been years now since I had such thoughts.
Perhaps this pastor is asking me a different question, wondering if I was hesitant about publicly identifying as an atheist. I have never been one to hesitate when I am confident that I am right. I am not the type of person who hides who and what he is, even if it would make life easier for me if I did so. In this regard, my wife and I are as different as day and night. Now, I don’t go through the streets screaming, “I am an ATHEIST,” but I don’t shy away from the label. I have often warned people who have contacted me about their own questions and doubts to NOT look at my life as a pattern to follow. (Please see Count the Cost Before You Say I am an Atheist) Each of us must choose our own path. I don’t judge or criticize atheists who choose to keep their unbelief private. Each to his own.
When I started blogging in 2007, one question I asked myself was whether I wanted to write anonymously. I chose to use my real name, but there have been moments when I wondered if I made the right choice. I have been brutally attacked and threatened by Christian zealots. The pain these people inflict leaves deep, lasting scars. This blog will soon celebrate its tenth anniversary. Anyone who has ridden Bruce’s crazy train for years knows that me making it to ten years is surprising. On at least three other occasions over the years, I have stopped blogging and deleted all of my posts due to savage attacks from Christian Fundamentalists (and, at one time, Fundamentalist atheists).
My life is pretty much an open book. I try to be open and honest, owning past mistakes and transgressions. Are there moments when I wish I had used a pseudonym instead of my real name? Sure, but it’s too late now to do so. The horse has left the proverbial barn. Even if I stopped blogging tomorrow, it would be impossible to erase my Internet footprint.
Bruce, was your transition difficult for you to accept?
I want to answer this question from two vantage points. First, was my transition from Christian to atheist hard for me to accept? Not at all. I have always believed truth matters. My life appears to my Evangelical critics to be one of a wanderer, a double-minded man (whom the Bible says is unstable in all his ways). My battle with depression is a sure sign to them that I am weak-kneed mentally. Perhaps, but I am the kind of person who is unafraid of changing his mind or being viewed as odd or different. In 2005, my late mother-in-law and I had an epic blow-up. I have written about this in the past. This blow-up, by the way, totally altered our relationship — for the better, from my perspective. Several days after our titanic battle, my mother-in-law called me. We talked about many things. During our conversation, Mom said, “Bruce, we always knew you were “different.” And she was right. I have always been the kind of person who follows the beat of my own drum, both as a Christian and an atheist. I do not doubt that my singular drum beating has caused me problems and affected the relationships I have with Polly, my children, and my extended family. I am who I am, and I have reached a place in life where I no longer apologize for being Bruce Gerencser.
Second, was my transition from a pastor to a commoner hard for me to accept? Absolutely. My entire life was wrapped up in Jesus and my calling to preach the gospel. The ministry was my life. I enjoyed being the hub around which everything turned. I enjoyed the work of the ministry, especially studying for and preaching sermons. To this day, I miss standing before people and saying, “Thus saith the Lord.” I miss the love and respect I received from congregants. I miss the place I had in the community due to my position as a minister.
Walking away from the ministry and Christianity meant abandoning my life’s calling; abandoning everything I held dear. Doing so meant, at the age of fifty, I had to answer countless questions that I hadn’t thought about in years. Fortunately, Polly walked hand in hand with me when I deconverted. I can only imagine how different our lives might have been had I become an atheist and Polly remained a Christian. I highly doubt our marriage would have survived.
Do I still miss certain aspects of the ministry? Sure. Fortunately, writing has become a ministry of sorts for me. This blog and its wonderful readers are my church. I digitally preach sermons, hoping that people find them encouraging and helpful. The traffic numbers suggest that a few people, anyway, love and appreciate the content of my post-Christian sermons. And all Loki’s people said, AMEN!
Bruce, do you wonder at all about any form of an afterlife?
I do not. I have come to accept that life is short, death is certain, and once we draw our last breath we cease to exist. There was a time, post-Jesus, when I hoped there was some sort of life beyond the grave. It’s hard to comprehend not existing. I have had numerous thoughts about non-existence; about going to bed at night and never waking up; of being alive one moment, and dead the next. I have thought about how life might be without Polly lying next to me; of not hearing the keys in the door and her voice ringing out, “I’m home.”
As much as I might want for there to be life after death, the facts tell me that no such thing exists. What evidence do we have for an afterlife? None, except the words in this or that religious text. I am no longer willing to build my life and future on what the Bible does and doesn’t say. This is a good spot for me to share the advice I give on the About page:
If you had one piece of advice to give me, what would it be?
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Some day, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
I do my best to live by this statement. If, perchance, I learn after I die that there is an afterlife, fine by me. I have no worries about the existence of the Christian God and his Heaven/Hell. I am confident that the only Heaven and Hell is that which we make in this life. That said, is it possible that some sort of cosmic afterlife exists? Sure, but I am not counting on it. I am not going to waste this life in the hope that there is some sort of divine payoff after I die
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over and over and over again, for two hours, an elderly Charismatic Christian woman in a hospital bed near mine, lay on her bed with hands extended to the ceiling, pleading for Jesus/God to come to her and make his presence known….
Fortunately, after two hours of crying out to Jesus, he finally showed up! Just kidding. What showed up was a nurse with a syringe filled with high-powered narcotics. Soon, the woman fell asleep, ending her pleas to God. When she awoke, family and medical staff alike comforted her so she would no longer hysterically cry out for an imaginary pain-alleviating deity. Her suffering was alleviated, not by God, but by medically trained and compassionate human beings.
It is obvious that unbelievers will not see God or Jesus behind the kind act of the nurse. They only look on the surface of events and do not look for the real action taking place behind that surface view.
Unbelievers fail to realize that God uses people thus a human would be sent with the right medication to alleviate the woman’s pain. Given the fact that deaths due to medical malp[practice [sic] are abundant, the woman receiving the right dosage of the right medicine is an act of God answering her prayers.
Why would it take so long? Well, real life does get in the way of God answering prayers. One reason is that the nurses resisted God’s leading and disobeyed. Another is that they came when they were free as they had other patients to minister aid to and other practical and real reasons.
It is not that God abandoned this woman but that he answers in his time. Unfortunately, according to the author of that post, the woman’s faith was being undermined by family and medical staff. That is another reason God’s aid was delayed.
The post goes on to denigrate God and the Bible but that is also par for the ocurse [sic] as unbelievers never see God in any result of prayer. Not because they do not believe but because they do not look for God’s behind the scenes action.
According to Thiessen, I failed to see “God or Jesus behind the kind act of the nurse.” How could I, or anyone else, for that matter, see God or Jesus behind the nurse caring for this woman? Thiessen makes a claim for which he provides no evidence. Thiessen claims that I just took a “surface” view of the situation. How could I have done otherwise? I have no tool available to me that allows me to detect Jesus/God, so I make judgments based on what I see and hear. If God is the sovereign of the universe and hears every believer’s prayer, why did it take him two hours to show up? Jesus could have immediately revealed himself to her or alleviated her pain, but he didn’t. Instead, she lay on her bed writhing in pain, pleading for Jesus to make an appearance and alleviate her suffering.
Thiessen asserts, without evidence, that the woman finally receiving the right dose of narcotics was “an act of God answering her prayers.” How could he possibly know this? It is far more likely the charge nurse had to get in contact with the doctor before giving her pain meds and this took some time to accomplish or she had already received pain meds and it was too soon for more.
Thiessen suggests that God’s tardiness (not explaining how God could be tardy or absent when he is ever present) was due to “the nurses resisted God’s leading and disobeyed” or “they had other patients to minister aid to and other practical and real reasons.” Again, Thiessen provides no evidence for his claims. He is just making shit up as he goes, trying to make God look good. I was two beds away from this woman in a ward when the events detailed in my post happened. She had nursing staff in her room the whole time. My nurse, an RN, spent thirty minutes with the woman, trying to comfort and settle her down. She had plenty of human help, but supernatural deliverance was nowhere to be found.
Thiessen claims that the woman’s family and her nurses undermined her faith, and that’s why pain relief was delayed. I have no idea how he came to this conclusion. Besides, what kind of God withholds pain relief from one of his followers because of what others did? Why should she be punished for what others do (not that they did what Thiessen alleges)?
Thiessen concludes his post by saying “Unbelievers never see God in any result of prayer. Not because they do not believe but because they do not look for God’s behind-the-scenes action.” Saying God answered a prayer is a claim. If you want me to believe a supernatural claim then you must provide sufficient evidence for your claim. Thiessen, of course, doesn’t do this. As a Fundamentalist presuppositionalist, he believes that his claims are self-evident; and that unbelievers are deliberately deaf and blind to what God is doing in the world. Sure . . . but if Thiessen wants me to accept his claims, he going to have to do more than quote Bible verses, share personal experiences, or make bald assertions for which he provides no evidence. I am not going to take his word for it, and neither should anyone else.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I am often asked what evidence it would take to convince me of the existence of the Evangelical God; the God of the Bible. Some atheists refuse to answer this question, saying “God knows what evidence would convince me of his existence, so when he provides it, I’ll know it.” Fair enough. The Evangelical God is allegedly omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent. If these claims are true, God knows exactly what will convince unbelievers of his existence. Yet, God is silent, outside of helping Granny find her car keys or Grandpa his hearing aids.
So what could the Evangelical God do to convince the Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser that he exists? One thing. One thing that God, in all of human history, has never done. One thing that would clearly, and without ambiguity, show me that he is real. What is that one thing, you ask? I would like to see God miraculously regrow an amputated arm or leg. Do this, God, and I will admit that you are real. I may not worship you, but I will believe you exist. Regrowing an amputated limb is not enough to absolve God of his murderous, genocidal acts recorded in the Bible. I can admit this God exists without bending a knee to him.
Okay, God, the ball is in your court.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
A collaboration between Bruce Almighty and Microsoft CoPilot AI.
Here’s a song praising the late Christopher Hitchens, set to the tune of “Blessed Assurance.”
Verse 1:
Blessed with reason, Hitchens we praise, Voice of the skeptic, lighting our ways. Champion of truth, with courage so bright, In the face of dogma, you stood for the light.
Chorus:
Hitchens, Hitchens, bold and free, Your words inspire, your mind a sea. In the quest for knowledge, you led the way, Guiding us through night to the break of day.
Verse 2:
Critic of falsehoods, fearless and strong, In debates and writings, you righted the wrong. With wit and wisdom, you challenged the lies, In your legacy, the truth never dies.
Chorus:
Hitchens, Hitchens, bold and free, Your words inspire, your mind a sea. In the quest for knowledge, you led the way, Guiding us through night to the break of day.
Bridge:
In your prose, we find the spark, Of a mind that left its mark. Though you’re gone, your voice remains, In our hearts, your spirit reigns.
Chorus:
Hitchens, Hitchens, bold and free, Your words inspire, your mind a sea. In the quest for knowledge, you led the way, Guiding us through night to the break of day.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
A collaboration between Bruce Almighty and Microsoft CoPilot AI
Loki Loves Me (sung to the tune of Jesus Loves Me)
Loki, trickster, wise and sly, Brings the magic from the sky. With his wit and charm so bright, Guides us through the darkest night.
Loki loves us, this we know, For his tales and tricks do show. In his laughter, we find cheer, Loki’s presence always near.
Mischief maker, bold and free, Loki’s spirit, wild as sea. In his stories, we delight, Loki’s wisdom, shining light.
Loki loves us, this we know, For his tales and tricks do show. In his laughter, we find cheer, Loki’s presence always near.
Rock of Mischief, God of Jesus (sung to the tune of Rock of Ages).
Verse 1:
Rock of mischief, Loki’s name, Trickster god of ancient fame. From Asgard to Midgard’s land, Chaos weaves with clever hand. Mischief’s master, sly and bold, Stories of your deeds retold.
Chorus:
Loki, Loki, god of jest, In your schemes, we find no rest. Shape-shifter, with cunning art, You play tricks upon our heart.
Verse 2:
Brother to the thunder’s might, Yet you walk a different light. From the shadows, you emerge, With a smile, the world you purge. Fire’s child, with wit so keen, In your laughter, truth is seen.
Chorus:
Loki, Loki, god of jest, In your schemes, we find no rest. Shape-shifter, with cunning art, You play tricks upon our heart.
Bridge:
In your tales, we see the spark, Of a mind that leaves its mark. Though your ways may seem unkind, In your chaos, truth we find.
Chorus:
Loki, Loki, god of jest, In your schemes, we find no rest. Shape-shifter, with cunning art, You play tricks upon our heart.
Did you try singing these songs? What do you think? 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Why do you people bother arguing and debating with this guy? He’s spiritually dead as a doornail and always has been. His 25 years in the pastorate was a complete sham. If you doubt that call the leadership staff at any of the churches and ask about his conduct. On top of multiple failed “ministries,” he has hopped from job to job and place to place (22 and 18, respectively). Don’t waste your time reading his blogs. His mind is darkened and his heart hardened by sin. He has nothing of substance to offer you. Above all else don’t make a donation and facilitate his folly.
This man did read a few more posts than the typical Evangelical asshole (9), so for that HSV Counseling gets a gold star beside his name. Atta boy, you sure put that atheist Bruce Gerencser in his place. Here’s what HSV wants readers to know:
I am presently as spiritually dead as a “doornail (utterly devoid of life).”
I have always been as spiritually dead as a “doornail.”
The twenty-five years I spent pastoring Evangelical churches was a complete “sham.”
The leadership at the churches I pastored will confirm that my work as their pastor was a “sham.”
The churches I pastored were “failures.”
I worked a lot of jobs and lived in a lot of places in my lifetime. This is another sign that proves I was a “failure.”
People shouldn’t waste their time reading my writing. Why? My mind is darkened and my heart hardened by sin.
I have nothing of substance to offer readers.
And, most importantly, people shouldn’t make donations me, facilitating my folly.
I find it interesting that Evangelicals — who don’t know me — can read a few blog posts and then, angered, outraged, and butthurt about what I wrote, attempt to psychologically wound me by attacking my character. Years ago, such attacks were quite effective. So much so that I would often stop blogging for weeks and months on end. At the time, I thought, why won’t they just accept my story at face value? Why do they have to attack me personally instead of interacting with my writing? Why are they comfortable with lying about me and distorting the narrative of my life?
I am not sure that I can answer these questions, but I do know that how I respond to such people has changed. I no longer let their words harm me. Sure, much like everyone, I don’t like it when people personally attack me, malign my character, and, on occasion verbally assault my spouse, children, and readers of this blog. I know these Cowards for Jesus® hide safely behind their computer screens, smartphones, and tablets, never fearing the consequences of their un-Christian behavior.
When I have the opportunity, I will track them down and out them, giving a very public face to their hateful words. Years ago, an Evangelical man sent me numerous hateful emails and comments. I eventually figured out who he was. This Coward for Jesus® was using his work computer to email me. One day, while he was, once again, verbally assaulting me, I called the HR department at the company he worked for, informing them as to what this man was doing while on the clock — while accessing the Internet from his work computer. This man never sent me another email. He got my message loud and clear.
The same goes for James Tester, an IFB pastor who sent me a nasty email several years ago. Unfortunately, for Tester, he left enough breadcrumbs for me to track him down. (Please see IFB Pastor James Tester Sends Me a Message.) Now Tester has to live with the fact that when someone searches for “Pastor James Tester” on Google, the aforementioned post ranks fourth, right after his Facebook and Instagram pages. Do I find a bit of smug satisfaction when this happens? Yep, I sure do. There’s little more that I can do than publicize their “faith” for all to see.
Alas, for HSV Counseling — bclarkf150 — all my Google search returned was Herpes Simplex Virus Counseling. There’s a punch line there for readers who would like to make the connection.
I will continue to publicizes these kinds of emails and comments because I think it is important for people to see the ugly side of Evangelical Christianity. If nothing else, they remind us of one of the reasons we walked (ran) away from Christianity. It’s hard to argue for the moral and ethical superiority of Evangelicalism as long as Jesus-loving trolls attack and disparage the very people Jesus commands them to love.
Now, let me get back to counting all the donations I received today. Almost enough for me to buy a Lear Jet! All praise be to Loki!
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I follow the KJV 1611 group on Facebook. Recently, the following meme was posted:
I decided to respond to the meme. Enjoy!😉 All spelling, grammar, punctuation, and bad arguments in the original.
Bruce: I studied the Bible and that’s why I’m an atheist. 😈 Indeed, the truth shall set you free!
KJV 1611: Bruce Gerencser “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” – God
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser you did not study bc if you had you wouldn’t be an atheist..
Bruce: Tommy, I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years, and a pastor for twenty-five years. So nice try, but no cigar.
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser yeh, so you page says .. that doesn’t mean you understood what you read.. hey, I’m not judging… Youre a grown man, you have free will. Which is proof that God is real.. if we were confined to just being science we would be bound to only to laws of physics.. no free will. But you tell yourself whatever you choose. Regardless, you know you shouldn’t deny God/Jesus Christ and def not the Holy Spirit. Please reconsider your position
Bruce: Tommy, where can I take the test?😂
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser just order your permits online like usual.🤣
Bruce: Tommy, we don’t have free will, so there goes your God.
Q: Bruce Gerencser .. so who made you become an atheist?🤔.. nobody but yourself= free will
Bruce: Tommy, sure. 😀😃
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser yep I made you make that response too 🤔🤣.. thank you for continually verifying that I am 100% correct.. Because it’s your continual free will to choose to respond Just as it’s my free will to continue to prove you wrong and it’s working perfectly!!
Bruce: Tommy, nope. I answered you because I’m preconditioned to answer dumb statements. I can’t help myself, it’s my nature.
More seriously, if you want to have a real discussion about free will contact me via my blog. I’m more than happy to explain my understanding of free will — both as a Christian and an atheist. I’ve much to say, but this isn’t the proper forum to do so. 🤣❤️
Tommy: Bruce Gerencser you obviously, YOU HAD A CHOICE TO RESPOND.. OR TO NOT RESPOND ,,, WHICH proves you did 1 or the other and that was your choice , nobody made you. . that is free will. God isnt going to make you choose him. Your choice to respond to me Your choice to except him. Please, stop arguing…m still yet a free choice..
Janie: Bruce Gerencser pitiful.
Bruce: Janie, thank you.😂
Emily: Bruce Gerencser Galatians 5:7-9 KJV Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh $not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump…… there’s still time for you to repent and turn back to Christ
Bruce: Emily, sadly, you fail to understand that quoting Bible verses to atheists doesn’t work.
Joseph: Bruce Gerencser Anyone approaching God must first believe that He is.
Joseph: If I didn’t believe that you’re real, it would follow the same logic that it doesn’t matter what your comment says, or what you write on here at all. you’re an AI and you’re not real. If I approach you with that mindset I would have the same mindset about you as you do about God.
Bruce: Joseph, I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Marcia: Bruce Gerencser facts, if you are not a child of God you can never understand his words. God spoke in parables so that they who belong to him can comprehend. You need to ask God for his wisdom and his spirit. Because without his spirit it profited nothing. If God doesn’t give you his understanding, then you just don’t belong to him. He created us all. But not everyone belongs to him. A fool says there’s no God.
Bruce: Marcia, good to know. Then there’s no need to preach the gospel to me, right? Or telling me to read the book of John, right? Or quoting Bible verses to me, right? You might want to tell your fellow believers that I’m deaf. 🤣🤣
Michael: “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap” (Galatians 6:7).
“[12] The wicked plots against the just, and gnashes at him with his teeth. [13] The Lord laughs at him, for He sees that his day is coming” (Psalm 37:12-13).
“And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:7).
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad” (2 Corinthians 5:10).
“He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day” (John 12:48).
“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” (John 3:36).
“But unless you repent you will all likewise perish” (John 13:3).
“The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:15).
“[18] Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, [19] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God” (2 Corinthians 5:18-20).
Mr. Gerencser, I’m pretty sure it’s likely you haven’t read the Bible in full, that is, cover to cover. Typically, those who profess to be Atheists, yet also claim to have read and studied the Bible, likely did not read a lick of it, or if they have, it was perhaps a few verses here or there; or what they ‘heard’ of the Bible from a third party who themselves don’t believe, and who claimed they too “read” the Bible.
I have encountered many Atheists in my day, and usually all they have to hear is the preaching of the Gospel message and they decide to remain an enemy of God in their unbelief, because their pride is offended by the conviction of the Gospel. And most often than not, these individuals wouldn’t even bother to read more of what they believe is an offense to them. So the claims of most Atheists of having ‘read’ the whole of the Bible is far more a stretch of the truth than they personally believe the Bible to be. If we are keeping totally 100% here.
I pray the Lord has mercy upon you and quickens your spirit that you might believe, call on the name of the Lord Jesus and be saved! But if you remain stubbornly hard of heart, and will not receive a love of the truth, then it is simply as my Lord Jesus says, “You are not of God”, you are not of the truth, therefore you cannot receive His words. And if this is the case for you, woe unto you. For Hell is real, my friend, and judgment IS coming! Only God knows whether you will ever believe or not, so I will lovingly say to you, my friend, be reconciled to God.
Repent of your sins! Turn from them and turn to God! Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, whom God the Father sent to die for yours, mines and the whole world’s sins. Put your faith in Him [alone] to give you forgiveness of your sins, redemption, and salvation!
Seek the Lord—NOW—while He may be found; and do not perish in your sins. For tomorrow is not promised to anyone. The life of men is but a vapor; like the grass that fades, or the glory of a flower that’s here today but gone tomorrow. Yet, if you repent and believe the Gospel of Christ, even though you die, you shall live!
“[16] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. [17] For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (John 3:16-17).
Call on Him! 🙂 <3
Bruce: Michael, I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years. I pastored IFB, Southern Baptist, Christian Union, and Non-denominational churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan for twenty-five years. So, yes, I read the Bible — the KJV — cover to cover numerous times. All told, I spent 20,000 hours studying the Bible and preached 4,000+ sermons. I know, comprehend, and understand the Bible. If you doubt me, ask away. I’m confident I can pass with flying colors any Bible Knowledge Test you might give. 🤣❤️
Louwtjie: Bruce Gerencser sad to say this..but I question it…..were you ever born again. JOHN 3:3-5 Where you ever filled with the Hoky Spirit…did you ever confessed Jesus Christ as your Savior. ROM 10 :8-10…I don’t think so
Bruce: Louwtjie, yes, I was born again. Anyone who knew me at the time will testify of my faith in and commitment to Christ.
That I don’t fit in your peculiar theological box 📦 is your problem, not mine.
Bruce: Louwtjie, yes [were you ever born again], yes [were you ever filled with the Holy Spirit], and yes [did you ever confess Jesus Christ as your Savior]. Now what?
William: if your really a atheist??? you might have read the BIBLE, but study it is very different, you have my prayer that OUR FATHER will open your eyes to the real WORD of GOD [JESUS CHRIST] my opinion only
Bruce: William, yes I’m “really” an atheist — agnostic atheist, to be exact.
As pastor, I spent 20,000 hours studying the Bible and its attendant teachings. I preached expositionally. I committed myself to knowing the Word of God, not only for myself, but also for the people I pastored.
James: You cannot understand the bible unless the Holy Spirit gives you understanding, so if your not saved you have not the Holy Spirit indwelling you, therefore there is no understanding….
Bruce: James, yet numerous people quoted Bible verses to me in this thread. If I can’t “understand” it, why quote it to me? If the natural man cannot understand the things of God, preaching to me or quoting verses is worthless.
So, which shall it be?
Several other Fundamentalists commented but blocked me so I couldn’t retrieve their comments. Evidently, allowing an atheist to respond to a comment you made about him will give you demonic cooties.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I responded to an email from an Evangelical man I’ll call Fred Flintstone. The sender took great umbrage at me using his first name, so as not to upset him further, I have given him a pseudonym, Fred Flintstone. You can read Part One here.
Today, over the course of two hours, Fred sent me seventeen emails. Evidently, my response upset him. I don’t plan to respond to every one of his emails. Thoughtful readers will see that his emails speak for themselves; just seventeen more emails added to thousands of similar emails from Evangelicals I have received over the past seventeen years. I do, however, want to address several things mentioned by Fred, in the hope that by doing so, he will see that he has careened off the runway and crashed into a fuel truck, destroying whatever chance he might have had for putting in a good word for Jesus. Instead, he comes off as just another butthurt Evangelical who isn’t used to pushback.
First, the original article about Kenny Bishop was a defense of the man and his new path in life. I wrote:
Several days ago, I had a hankering for music from The Bishops. As I was listening, I thought, “I wonder where Kenny Bishop is today?”
….
Talk about finding the unexpected — a liberal, gay Kenny Bishop. I definitely didn’t see that one coming. That said, I am happy for Kenny and his husband Mason. While I am no longer a Christian, I know that Christianity needs more Kenny Bishops. I have no doubt Kenny was eviscerated for his repudiation of Evangelical orthodoxy and their hatred of LGBTQ people. I know first-hand how it feels to be cut a thousand times by people who once loved you, people who were your family, friends, and colleagues in the ministry. Kenny, it seems, has risen above the anger and judgment and made a new life for himself. I wish him nothing but the best. He will remain my all-time favorite southern gospel tenor singer. And better yet, he is an example for people who still believe in God, but want to free themselves from Evangelical bondage. For people of faith, there are kinder, gentler expressions of Christianity. As Kenny Bishop’s life shows, one can still meaningfully believe in the Christian God without being Evangelical. While I can’t follow such a path, I don’t condemn others who do.
Kenny is a United Church of Christ (UCC) pastor. The UCC is arguably the most liberal denomination in the United States. UCC theological and social beliefs are the polar opposite of the beliefs held by most Evangelicals. Would most Southern Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, other Evangelical sects, and nondenominational churches welcome Kenny into their congregations to sing or preach? Of course not. Evangelicalism is the primary driving force against societal acceptance of LGBTQ people. Kenny would not be permitted to be a member of most of these churches. Why? They consider him an apostate, a reprobate — whose behavior is an affront to the Evangelical God.
Second, Fred repeatedly complained that I didn’t answer his questions. What questions, exactly? His email contained all of one question mark, and even that sentence was as much a statement as it was a question.
Here’s Fred’s original email:
I read your Kenny Bishop piece. Kenny knew his lifestyle would not fit in Southern Gospel but he still finds way to serve. He believes as I do, savior above sin! Kenny’s still working. I don’t know how you become a Former Christian that is still moved by gospel music. The fact that it still moves you is a pretty good indication that there’s something still in you. The funny thing is Christians that claim they ain’t Christians anymore. That don’t work man! You can’t take that off like a shirt! You going to mess around and die and be pissed you in Heaven?
How many questions did you find?
Third, every Evangelical who emails me is served a page that says, in part:
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
If you email me anyway — and I know you will, since scores of Evangelicals have done just that, showing me no regard or respect — I reserve the right to make your message and name public. This blog is read by thousands of people every day, so keep that in mind when you email me whatever it is you think “God/Jesus/Holy Spirit” has laid upon your heart. Do you really want your ignorance put on display for thousands of people to see? Pause before hitting send. Ask yourself, “how will my email reflect on Jesus, Christianity, and my church?”
Fred has no justified reason for being upset that I used his first name in response to him, before changing it to Fred Flintstone. For the sake of future discussions, I will call myself Barney Rubble. 🙂
Fred threatens me with legal action, as if no one has ever tried that before with me. There’s nothing in my response to him that remotely breaks the law, and my editor, who is a lawyer, would tell me if I did. Fred might want to study up on things such as the First Amendment, Fair Use, and what is permitted in public discourse. I am a public figure, as is Kenny Bishop. U.S. law sets a high bar for slander, and I am confident I have not slandered anyone. My writing typically uses news articles, public documents, and websites to justify and bolster my posts. This blog primarily features my opinions about various religious or political subjects. People are free to read or not read what I write. If Fred wants to take me to task for what I have written, I suggest he start his own blog and type away. As a warning, let me say others have tried to methodically deconstruct my life. Every one of them eventually gave up. Successful blogging is hard work. Ninety-five percent of blogs are eventually abandoned. As you will see below, I have even offered Fred the opportunity to write a rebuttal post. Much as I did with Dr. David Tee, I am more than happy to give my critics the unedited space to respond to me.
Fourth, I have met the Bishops too. We attended two of their homecomings in Berea, Kentucky, and heard them several times in concerts over the years. One thing is for certain, neither Fred nor I know Kenny Bishop well. My goal was to encourage and support Kenny. Take a gander at the comments Jesus-loving Christians left on the original post and see my responses. They will tell you everything you need to know about my motivations.
Finally, I’ll never understand Fred’s approach to me. What did he hope to accomplish by repeatedly swearing at me, calling me names, threatening my manhood, and trying to scare me with baseless threats of legal action? How does his behavior square with what Jesus said to his followers about treating their enemies? Or where can the Fruit of the Spirit be seen in Fred’s responses to me? Look, I am a big boy with thick skin. I can take abuse from God’s chosen ones all day long. However, as a man who was an Evangelical for fifty years, and a pastor for twenty-five years, I can tell you that this kind of behavior doesn’t do anything to advance the cause of Christ.
If Fred had questions, I would gladly answer them. But, slinging curse words and derogatory names my way will not elicit the desired response. Religious beliefs (or atheist beliefs, for that matter) are not off-limits on this site. Want respect? Behave respectfully.
Fred is free to comment on this post or any other post on this site. If he asks legitimate, thoughtful questions, I will gladly answer them. I don’t shy away from interaction with people who disagree with me.
Bruce
What follows are the emails I received today from Fred. They are in the order I received them. All spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original.
Email 1
You wrote another blog to pick apart my questions to you! How can you claim not to be a Christian but take something I said in Praise of Kenny Bishop and turn me into an evangelical person that’s mad at somebody! Most Christians or professed Christians would simply tell you Kenny is going to Hell! Keep writing your one sided, hateful blogs in the hopes you’re changing people’s minds about Christianity! You’re leaving an online legacy of straight up stupidity! I simply said If you were saved, you are saved and saying you’re not does not matter to God! I said you’ll still go to Heaven and didn’t wish Hell on you! Yes I am a Christian but the hate filled type, that’s not me! You didn’t even answer any questions. You dodged them with all the anti religious rhetoric! You’re an online joke!
Email 2
Don’t have a damn thing to add to the religious debate. You try to embarrass people that try! As a blood bought child of God, Hell with You!
Email 3
Seriously though sir! You said ask questions and you’ll answer. You didn’t mention you’d write an another addition to your bullshit with someone’s name it! What I’m waiting for you do is include my last name in your Christian hate speech and I’ll sue you for slandering abs twisting my words and my name to fit your cluster Fucked agenda! Yea I’m Christian but don’t be calling me out on a online unless you want to be on a court docket line!
Email 4
I have no trouble standing against a Web Hoe who misrepresents me!
Email 5
As far as Kenny Bishop. He and his family and fellow Gospel Artists know why he left Southern Gospel music but they still love him and his family does too. I’ve Met Kenny, Mark and the Bishops on several occasions. Their story would match mine contrary to what a Web Hoe says! Savior over sin may have been wrong terminology for someone like you who has no comprehension of what a savior really is! You weren’t man enough to live up to it! You Quit! Kenny & I haven’t
Email 6
That’s the only reason I replied to piece as we called it but now since we know that you lie on your page about people you don’t personally know it looks more like a “Piece Of Shit!”
Email 7
That’s how evangelical I am dude! I’ll cuss you the fuck out in Jesus Name!
Email 8
Seriously. The language I use, the bad things I do, the bad things that other people do. That’s what your piece of shit page is! It’s a gossip rag and you put my name on it for asking questions that you request? I am from a family of attorneys. My niece specializes in the cyber parts of the law. So go ahead and include my last name on your rag page and you’ll see what it’s like to make a bullshit webpage end up putting you in a trailer park without wi fi!
Email 9
We grow up being asked to believe in things that don’t exist. Santa, Easter bunnies, tooth fairies so I can definitely completely understand how an unseen God can get thrown in that mix. Honestly I can’t put to one particular thing in this world that I can point to and say “There it is! There’s proof of God” except things that I’ve personally been through but then again for someone like you, everybody has a story. I don’t judge you based on your beliefs! That’s the beauty of Freedom! We are free to believe whatever we want! Don’t turn your non belief into making a public mockery of my belief. If we going public the I have an attorney for that! Amen
Email 10
I don’t care about the religious aspect of it anymore. If you want to put my name on your rag, talking about human beings personal sexuality then you need to be sued anyway!
Email 11
You’re not a reporter or a journalist. You’re a Keyboard Thug!
Email 12
Finally in closing let this sink in that twisted mind of yours! I sent you a private email. You chose to call me out in a very public way and totally distort and mocked me in addition to outing Kenny again too! Kenny probably wouldn’t tell you this but I will because we’re all individuals with opinions and I’m Me! You called me out so my response is Fuck You!
Email 13
And mess around never was a reference to you doing anything against your wife or doing anything wrong. You ask people to message you with questions brother. That implies that you do not object to dialogue with people with different views. That’s Cool. What is not cool is to take that discussion public and only show your views! You want to interview me? You want to know exactly where I stand? Do that and you’ll see although I’m not ashamed to be a Christian and you’re not a Christian, we probably still have more in common than not. You’ll never know because you’re content to run with Bullshit!
Email 14
And in your specific case, I don’t think he does but I hope God does in your situation feels the same as you and me. Ok we ain’t friends anymore? Go To Hell Then!
Email 15
Because you can literally see Anything online is very misleading. Celebrities would be in court forever if they went after everybody that spoke ill of them. I’m just an average every day person. I do believe in God but I do have non believer and gay family members and friends. I don’t try to be all holier than thou and force my belief system on them. If I’m asked questions I’ll answer but I don’t judge on the partying and stuff. If I’m around it. I’m involved! I don’t see my faith a list of rules and regulations at all. That’s religion. I am not involved. Not Guilty. I have a personal relationship with God. I’m not a preacher or teacher. I try to keep the 10 commandments and if that is the wrong approach then it at the very least keeps me out of a courthouse so I’ll roll with it!
Email 16
I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend. Don’t automatically jump to conclusions on people based on 1 email. Some of us who claim Christ, Don’t claim some that call themselves Christians! We are not Hate. We Don’t discriminate. We know everyone has problems and habits but we do too, so we love anyway! A Christian that comes at you any other way is not always the real deal!
Email 17
That’s one thing you will never hear in a current Evangelical church. 10 commandments were the law of God passed down from Moses and backed up by Jesus. Evangelicals will add every sin known to man as to why you’re going to Hell but all I remember Jesus saying was keep my commandments or laws and love one another! You take the coolest Christian’s ever in me and Kenny to try to use as click bait to further your beliefs! Dude were the closest thing to your beliefs without crossing over!
After writing this post, Fred sent me sixteen more emails.
Email 18
I have said everything I feel and have been told to cover! You referred to me on an open website and totally turned it around for evil intent. I’ve given you plenty of Ammo to write Part 2 but you better entitle “Keep The Shirt On because it might be the last one you got when I see your 67 year old, old ass in court!”
Email 19
You trying to low key bash people on your website. Let’s go big and do a podcast! Come at me with all that atheistic I’ll make an example of you by one statement attitude! You’ll be the laughing stock getting cussed out by someone who is saved! I’m not Holy bro! I’m Holy Shit! He said that!
Email 20
You are used to dealing with Christians who have been almost programmed to act a certain way. I identify as a Christian who has morals, but I was raised by a 3 times a week church mom and a former military alcoholic dad. My childhood was always in the middle of raising Hell and Amazing Grace so somehow at 50 I have kept both close to my heart! I’ll call you out on some straight up Bullshit and pray it over later!
Email 21
See I have taken all day on a Sunday replying to your bullshit post because you obviously took the time to write it. I don’t give a shit about misspelled words or proper punctuation. I’m not the one posting about people’s private lives. How you did me was shitty on I’m banking on you to do it again and include my last name like you did Bishop! You wanna be an Atheist playing God online with people! I’ll show you someone that will hit back in a more public way than a website!
Email 22
I know you don’t believe because you’ve never talked to anybody that believes but remained “Real!” If gay existed when I was growing up and when you grew up, I’m not at all shocked of it today! This ain’t new! You telling me God waited over 2000 to start picking specifically on gay people? That is also an Evangelical move to hide behind fairh to hate someone. You want to make masses believe your bullshit about people you don’t know just to make arguments against religion! I don’t come to you as religious! I didn’t come to you in disagreement about the existence of God. I made a comment about a good guy to you! You trying to pick apart every word as bad against you and Kenny! Pick apart Deez Nutz!
Email 23
So you basically got a guy that would sit down and have a drink with you and not be offended by anything you said to me in private but you chose to go public to mock me? Old Punk Ass Keyboard Thug with a website that looks like those fake ass magazines you used to see in grocery stores! Leave a Legacy Bro, not a Leech!
Email 24
I love dealing with highly intelligent people who think they have all the answers! Sometimes people aren’t questioning your beliefs or interested in arguing over religion. I was actually searching for bishops videos, clicked on your “Piece” of Shit and just gave Kenny some praise! I don’t know I had a 67 year old 1 sentence means an article Web Hoe who just waits on shit to jump on people. You jumped on the Christian in a Christian vs Atheists debate that will curse more than the Atheist! I don’t necessarily buy that salvation strips you of your rights to individuality, authentically being You! That’s the problem here man! Know your enemy before just picking unnecessary fights!
Email 25
I’m sure you love to argue with the intellectual seminary type but come down to the southern holding on by a thread sometimes people and see if you can persuade one of us to pussy out too!
Email 26
Goodnight! God Bless Hail Mary Hallelujer and all that. You yourself said you respected what Kenny did! How the fuck you going to jump on me for saying the same thing from my perspective?
Email 27
In total finality, you are a former pastor and I understand partly how you can have your beliefs change. You were a pastor on the front line. You saw firsthand how big of assholes church members are! I saw i also. I worked in a restaurant and the Sunday after church crowd were the shittiest whiners all week. I saw grown ass men still in church clothes make waitresses cry minutes after getting out of Sunday Meeting. I’m not naive or dumb. I never said you’re dead wrong or out of line for your beliefs. How did my short ass comment spark a whole new one sided post with accusations, inferences and speculation about somebody you don’t know? Webster would define you as an intelligent Dumbass.
Email I sent to Fred Flintstone:
Mr ********,
You seem to think I am interested in corresponding with you. I’m not. I’ve heard from countless people like you. I plan to put your responses into another post. Feel free to comment on the post or write a guest post detailing your grievances. Outside of that, I have no interest in hearing from you again.
I did change your name to Fred Flintstone. I hope that suits you.
Bruce Gerencser
Email 28
That is fine. I’ll respect your wishes and leave you alone. Fire away!
Email 29
I’ve unfortunately dealt with people like you before in my job in law enforcement. As long as I can lie, I’ll talk! If I’m called out on a lie, no comment! Post one post with my name on or in it and I’ll take your ass for the ride of your lifetime!
Email 30
And it’s Sgt ****** to People who hide behind screens
Email 31
I gave you credit for serving time on the front line as a pastor. You may have hit reverse but you did serve the time. I understand that you and your don’t believe anymore but I pray that if there happens to be an eternity then the work you honest to goodness put in is recognized and enough! It may be totally in the past but you’ve been there and done it! That’s way more than some do! Goodbye
Email 32
Sir I have read your page and bio. I see about your health issues. I won’t insult you with prayer but I’m sorry you have to deal with all that. Fire away at me but I’m leaving you alone. I don’t want to upset you. Be Well Sir!
If Fred sends me any more emails, I will post them here.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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