According to Evangelicals, God is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. God is the creator of all things, the ruler and king of the universe. He is the first and the last, the alpha and omega. Nothing happens that isn’t according to God’s purpose and plan.
However, when these beliefs are challenged with examples such as child sexual abuse, all of a sudden, this God is helpless, powerless, and non-existent. When clerics sexually abuse, molest, and rape children, who’s to blame? If God is as described above, then he, ultimately is to blame for crimes committed against children. He could stop preachers from sexually molesting children, yet he is indifferent to their plight.
Some Evangelical preachers will argue that child sex crimes happen because of human sinfulness. “For all have sinned,” the Bible says. What sin or sins did children commit that justifies them being sexually assaulted by so-called men of God? I can’t think of any. Preachers who sexually molest and abuse children prey on their innocence. Recently, Evangelical megachurch pastor Robert Morris was accused of sexually assaulting a 12-year-old girl; abuse that continued afterward for several years. The victim/survivor did nothing to invite such unwanted attention from Morris. Some Evangelical degenerates will suggest that she came on to Morris or seduced him. Really? I have five granddaughters who are around the victim’s age. I can’t imagine any scenario where one of them could or would come on to or seduce a grown-ass man — especially a preacher. It takes a vile, warped person even to think that a child is culpable for what a child molester, predator, or rapist does to them. You are a disgusting human being if you think otherwise. The adult in this story is ALWAYS responsible for their behavior.
But my point today relates not to Christians who are justifiably angry and disillusioned with other Christians. I am focusing instead on non-Christians who are asking why they should consider our faith when many of our faith leaders have acted in such horrific ways.
We claim that our God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving. If this is true, he knows what is happening when a Christian leader abuses a child. In fact, he knew this would happen long before it did. His omnipotence would seemingly enable him to act in any way he wishes. And the fact that “God is love” (1 John 4:8) would compel him to defend such innocent victims.
Why, then, doesn’t he?
Indeed. Why, then, doesn’t the Evangelical defend and protect innocent victims?
Denison says the “human free will” is the reason God stands by and does nothing when Evangelical preachers grope, penetrate, and rape children:
My immediate theological response is to point to the fact of human free will.
God created us to love him, and each other (Matthew 22:37–39), but real love must be a free choice, so God has given us the freedom we can use for good or for evil (cf. Deuteronomy 30:19–20; Joshua 24:15; Revelation 3:20). If the Lord prevented every sin, we could not be free. One could argue that if God protected the victims of clergy sexual abuse, he would have to protect the victims of every crime of any kind, rendering freedom null and void.
Set aside for a moment whether humans have free will. What act of the will on the part of victims plays any part in their abuse? If Denison wants to use free will as justification for sex crimes, who committed the crimes? Not the victim. No, the only person using their free will are offending preachers. It is disgusting to suggest otherwise.
Dension argues that if God prevents clerics from sexually molesting children, he would have to protect all victims of sex crimes; and to do so would violate human free will. So, God does nothing so all children, everywhere, have equal opportunity to be sexually assaulted. Cue, “What a Mighty God We Serve.”
Caring, compassionate people are throwing up about now. All that matters to Denison is holding true to his peculiar theology. We saw similar degenerate thinking from Dr. David Tee. I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years. I spent twenty-five years pastoring Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB), Southern Baptist, Sovereign Grace Baptist, Christian Union, and nondenominational congregations. This sort of thinking is foreign to my experiences in Evangelicalism, both as a member and a pastor. Forget the Christian/Evangelical part of the equation. I suspect most of the non-Christians who frequent this site consider Denison’s and Tee’s justifications morally bankrupt. And surely most Christians do too.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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David Tee/Derrick Thomas Thiessen is the tall man in the back
I know some of you are tired of me mentioning Dr. David Tee (whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen) on this site. I’m sick of mentioning him too. However, I can’t and won’t ignore his defense of clerics who commit sex crimes. I’ve met thousands of Christians over the years. I’ve never known a Christian with such callous disregard for the pain, suffering, and heartache of others. Whether out of some sort of misguided understanding of justice and forgiveness or a need to cover up past misconduct in his own life, Thiessen refuses to accept how offensive (and immoral) his words really are.
What follows is an excerpt from Thiessen’s latest post, @MeChurch 3, and my response to it. Please see @Me Church 2, and @MeChurch to read Thiessen’s other defenses of Evangelical preachers who molest children. All spelling, grammar, punctuation, and irrationality in the original.
How many people have had their lives and careers, not to mention their faith, ruined because Christians and others demand their pound of flesh far above what God demands? In this specific case, we can understand these moves better if Mr. Morris had not repented and lived a life that continually practiced this sin.
Mr. Morris is Evangelical megachurch pastor Robert Morris, who recently resigned after he was exposed for sexually assaulting a twelve-year-old church girl in the 1980s. The abuse continued for several years. Morris admitted assaulting the girl, acknowledging that his church knew about his crime — and yes, he committed a crime — at the time it happened. Morris briefly stepped away from preaching, then returned to the pulpit as if nothing happened. Ain’t God good, right? (Please see What Are We to Make of an Evangelical Preacher Who Defends a Pastor Who Sexually Assaulted a Twelve-Year-Old Girl?)
Morris committed a crime — a felony sex crime. What the Bible says doesn’t matter. Thiessen thinks he has intimate knowledge of God’s thoughts, but he doesn’t. And what God “thinks” on the matter doesn’t matter either. We are a nation of laws, and those laws consider Morris’ actions a crime. The only reason he is not in jail is that he can no longer be prosecuted for what he did almost 40 years ago.
Thiessen can’t possibly know if this was a one-off or whether Morris “repented” — as if repentance wipes his slate clean. Thiessen thinks saying “my bad” to God is a get-out-of-jail-free card.
But he had dealt with it, he took his spiritual punishment and paid the price for his actions. No more should be required of him. God promises to forget our sins when we honestly repent and turn from our wicked ways.
How does Thiessen know Morris “dealt with it” — “it” being sexually assaulting a church girl for several years? He demands evidence from me for all sorts of things, but when it comes to Morris molesting a young girl, Thiessen takes his word for it. Why is that?
Christians are not better than God and they should do the same thing when the person has truly repented. Keep in mind that we do not know the exact nature of his repentance or experience with God at that time. We are not judging that part of this story as we do not know what God did at that time.
Thiessen says he is not judging Morris, but he most certainly is. He has judged him forgiven. Based on what, exactly? That he said he repented? Child, please.
What we are discussing is the attitude of those Christians and others who think they need to do more than God to make a person pay for the sins they have committed. People outside of those involved do not have the criminal or spiritual authority to demand more than those who have jurisdiction put in place.
People often forget their place and think they can add more to punishment or make the crime more severe than it is for whatever reason they may use to justify their vigilante and kangaroo court justice.
If God has forgiven his sin with that young girl, then no one has the right to hold it over the person’s head forever. Nor do they have the right to add more punishment or destroy the man’s life.
No one is adding more punishment to Morris’ life or trying to destroy him. He did that to himself. What his victim demands is accountability. What people like me demand is that men like Morris are never allowed around children again; that he never pastors a church again. He has forfeited the right to be a pastor.
This brings us to the second possible alternative title of this piece. Is this what it all boils down to? Is a man’s or woman’s life reduced to one sin or crime that will not be forgiven or forgotten by the people?
One sin or crime? Morris committed multiple sins and crimes, and it remains to be seen if other victims come forward. Sadly, Thiessen makes no distinction between filching a grape at the grocery and sexually assaulting a young girl. Both are sins that God can and will forgive if the sinner confesses his sin and repents. Awesome, right? No matter what you do, forgiveness is but a prayer away.
If they have spent 10, 20, or 40 years of excellent service for God or humanity, is that all lost because someone does not like an ancient sin that was dealt with at the time? When did one sin or a previous sinful life overrule what took place after repentance?
Ancient sin? How ancient is Morris’ crime (not a sin or mistake, a CRIME) in the mind of his victim? Thiessen seems clueless to the fact that sexual abuse leaves lifelong scars, often requiring extensive therapy to come to terms with. Note what Thiessen says here: sex crimes committed ten years ago are ancient history. Truth be told, he likely thinks that crimes committed immediately before the act of repentance are “ancient” crimes too.
What good is Christ’s redemption if Christians and others ignore the redemption and faithful life and refuse to restore someone who committed a sin? If anyone takes the attitude ‘God forgives but I won’t’ they are committing a sin just like the person they won’t forgive.
Pay careful attention to what Thiessen is doing. He is blaming the victim. She needs to forgive Morris and move on. He demands sexual abuse victims forgive their abusers, even if they don’t want to. And if they don’t, they are every bit as much of a sinner as their abusers. In other words, in Thiessen’s mind, refusing to forgive is the same in God’s book as sexually abusing children.
OMG, how dare we trample underfoot Jesus’ blood, demanding that sexual predators be held accountable for their crimes. Give me a pair of waders. I plan to keep on stomping on Jesus’ magical blood if it means abuse victims are seen and heard, and their abusers are held accountable for their crimes.
If they want forgiveness then they need to forgive those they refuse to. The Bible says if one wants forgiveness from God they must forgive others who wronged them. We are not speaking out of personal ideology here.
The victim in question does not want forgiveness. Forgiveness is cheap, a bandaid over a gaping wound. What victims generally want is justice and accountability.
God has covered sins and forgiveness throughout the Bible. We must adhere to those words if we want to be an example to others and make an impact for Christ. Jesus said to forgive 7 x 70 and so far we have not seen 1 x 1 for people like Mr. Morris or Mr. Ravi Zacharias.
What we have seen is exacting a pound of flesh for a sin that did not affect anyone who is canceling Mr. Morris. Justice is not up to the victim to decide. God has already determined what is justice and it is best that we learn what it is and implement it properly if we want to truly restore sinning Christians to the church body.
Actually, in a secular society, it is the legal system that determines just punishment, not God, the church, or the Bible. Morris would be in jail now if it weren’t for the expiring statute of limitations.
In our view, a dealt-with sin is no match for a restored, redeemed life that obeys God’s word correctly. Despite what unbelievers want or say, the sin, once dealt with, should be forgotten. Coming back 40+ years later is not a Christian act. It is not biblical teaching and Christians must abide by God’s instructions correctly.
In other words, one aw-shit doesn’t cancel out ten atta-boys. Thiessen desperately wants to think that doing good cancels out sexual misconduct; that if a serial rapist asks Jesus to forgive him, all his victims should forgive him too.
Now I need to go take a shower.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Recently, it became known that Robert Morris, an Evangelical megachurch pastor, repeatedly sexually assaulted a twelve-year-old girl. Morris was twenty-one when he began abusing the girl. The abuse continued for several years. Morris admitted sexually assaulting the pre-teen girl.
No criminal charges were filed against Morris, or the church — who knew about Morris’ crimes and swept them under the proverbial rug. The girl’s father did the same, thinking the church would properly and sufficiently deal with the matter. After a short hiatus from preaching, Morris returned to preaching.
It seems this sinful ideology and activity has raised its head once again. Since BG [Bruce Gerencser] mentioned he was expecting us to write about this situation, we decided to take another look at it. Originally we weren’t going to but before we get too far into this topic, we will state that the only side we are taking is the side of Justice.
We have no dog in this fight but we are concerned that people are going over the top in their revenge for things that happened far too long ago. What is happening is not justice but more vigilantism and a kangaroo court style of justice that permeates the @MeToo and @MeChurch totalitarian activities.
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As we have read the articles, no mention of any real evidence has been discussed. We have another man attacked merely on the word of a woman on an event that took place over 40 years ago. memories can be good but memories are not evidence.
And you need real, credible, and verifiable evidence as well as the truth before justice can be done. The Bible talks about this on several occasions where the king demanded the truth not someone’s word. If women want their word to be believed, then produce real, credible, and verifiable evidence.
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Here is the other problem. if this sin was dealt with, and it does not matter about the age of the victim, then the woman has no legal or spiritual ground to stand on. Since she was a minor her father acted on her behalf and the matter was settled.
She does not have the right to dredge up this old act as it was dealt with 40 years ago. The Pastor accepted the conditions and fulfilled them so there is no case here. It sounds like someone has been talking to the woman to get her to repudiate the earlier agreement and go after deep pockets.
We have been told this pastor is worth millions, thus, a money grab by the woman is not out of the question. if we are going to take the woman’s word at face value, then to avoid hypocrisy and other negative aspects, we must take the Pastor’s word at face value and accept that he has not committed these or other crimes again.
If she does not present real evidence, then neither does he, although his claim is easier to find evidence to support it than hers.
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Here is another problem with this situation. Defining the term ‘abuse’ and ‘abusing’ is difficult as most definitions are subjective and are heavily influenced by emotion as well as the age of the alleged victim.
What is considered abuse and abusing someone varies and the application of those terms is distorted in hopes of producing the desired result. Honesty has long disappeared from cases where ‘sexual abuse’ and children are involved.
Plus, time has a way olf affecting people’s perceptions of these situations. What was once considered not abuse by either party is often changed over time to reflect a more modern perspective. But justice does not depend on how actions are viewed today for crimes committed in another era or century.
Justice has to determine if the alleged actions were truly abuse or not. Since neither party provides private and intimate details of the encounters but wraps them up in a generalized category labeled abuse, we cannot determine the truth of the matter.
If it wasn’t for the fact that the Pastor admitted to this activity, this would merely be a he said, she said case. Without proper evidence, no one will know the truth. if one wants to apply double jeopardy laws to this case, the woman is demanding that the PAstor pay twice for the same alleged crime.
That is neither right nor justice.
Got all that?
Worse, Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, went on to say:
The age of the woman at the time of the alleged crime does not matter. Nor should it influence how people view this sin. Since the Pastor did not engage in this activity continuously, it is unfair and unjust to label him a pedophile.
The issue that influences this case is the concept of when childhood ends and adulthood begins. Society in general has added another 7 years to ‘childhood’ and called them teen years. While technically correct, there is no biblical support for this extension of childhood.
It is a disservice to our young people by forcing them to remain children delaying their ability to grow up properly and become responsible adults. This faulty extension does not mean a crime was not committed, it just means that justice will be distorted as people are wrongfully influenced.
If we had better views of life and let our children become adults at the right time, justice would be better served.
That’s right, Thiessen said the age of the girl was immaterial. According to Thiessen, just because Morris repeatedly assaulted the girl doesn’t mean he’s a pedophile. He was what, then, a poor misguided man who couldn’t keep himself from putting his hands on the girl’s private parts? In Thiessen’s addled mind, if only this girl had been older — no harm, no foul.
Thiessen seems to think that the matter has been dealt with; that the church and her father acted on her behalf — end of discussion. Thiessen thinks clergy sex crimes should be handled in-house instead of being reported to law enforcement. Let “God” clean up the crimes of preachers, right?
We have been told this pastor is worth millions, thus, a money grab by the woman is not out of the question.
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If this situation continued for 4 1/2 years why did she let it go on for so long? The pastor held no power to harm her or her family so why did she participate for this length of time?
If everyone wants justice, then her thoughts and actions must be considered and examined. She can’t willingly participate for 4 1/2 years then 40 years later call it a crime and abuse. Why did she not tell her parents for this length of time?
Thiessen says a lot of crazy shit, but his defense of sexual predators is beyond the pale. I have a few ideas about why this is so, but it is best if I leave them unstated.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, is upset at me, so much so that he has challenged me to a street fight. 🤣
Thiessen has written five posts about me in the past week. Think of all the subjects he could write on, yet he is obsessed with what I say on this blog, becoming more hysterical with every post he writes. I fear he is going to have a stroke or hire a Christian hitman to kill me if he doesn’t change the channel.
I can’t stop him from raging against Bruce Almighty. I can either ignore — which I typically do — or rebut his nonsense. I’m in a rebut mood, so Thiessen can expect me to respond to him, if warranted. The following excerpt from his blog post, There is One Statement, requires no response. Thoughtful readers will see his post for what it is:
In BG’s [Bruce Gerencser’s] response to our Prove It article we [I] will address [what, exactly?]. It falls right in line with what we [I] were [was] saying in that article:
[Who’s keeping anyone from believing anything? No, what…is afraid of is people learning that he is peddling a lie.]
All we [I] can say in response is PROVE THE CHRISTIAN FAITH IS A LIE. He has failed to do so and has failed to produce any real, credible, and verifiable evidence supporting his assertions and claims.
Put up or shut up BG [Big Gonads]. Your time of reckoning has come. [I am laughing hysterically as I read this.] You have spouted off for 11 years, give or take a year [seventeen years], now it is time to pay the piper and put your ‘evidence’ on the table to be examined by those who are experts in this field. [This doesn’t apply to Thiessen because he’s not an expert on anything other than personal attacks and fallacies.]
Or are you too chicken to show your readers that you can’t do it? [I’m still laughing.] Your word is not enough so let’s see what you have that shows the Bible to be in error and that Christ does not exist. [Christ does exist, Derrick. I have never said otherwise. He lived, he died, and is buried in an unknown grave.] Follow the guidelines we [I] posted in our [my] Prove It article. [Dammit, Derrick, quit asking me to expose myself to you. Disgusting, Dude.]
We [I] and the rest of the world are waiting. [The only person waiting is Thiessen. The 5,000 posts I have written on this site speak for themselves.]
{Oh and by the way, while spelling errors may exist, Grammarly and us [I] do not always catch them so give it a rest already}. [Thiessen has repeatedly claimed that Ben Berwick and I have edited his posts, comments, and emails. This, of course, is untrue. This is why I always say that any quotes from Thiessen’s site are his alone, complete with bad grammar, spelling, and punctuation. I use Grammarly too. It is a good tool, but I still need an editor to proof my writing.]
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, is on a downhill roll lately, complaining, bitching, whining, and raging about me and my British friend Ben Berwick. Today, Thiessen wrote a post titled, Christians Do Not Have to Provide Proof, directly contradicting what the Bible says in 1 Peter 3:15: But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.
What follows is my response to Thiessen’s post. All spelling, grammar, punctuation, and irrationality in the original.
The unbelieving world is always demanding that Christians prove their faith is true.
I have NEVER asked a Christian to “prove their faith is true.” Faith, by its very nature, is beyond investigation. However, the claims Christians make can and must be investigated to see if extant evidence justifies, verifies, and bolsters their claims. If Thiessen wants atheists to buy what he is selling, he must provide verifiable evidence for his claims. So far, he refuses to do so, choosing to dismiss, ridicule, and call names instead. According to the Bible, Thiessen’s behavior is inconsistent with the Christian faith.
Yet, that is an arrogant demand as the unbeliever sits in the judgment seat and then tells Christians what is or isn’t proof.
Logic, science, and common sense determine what is and isn’t evidence for Christian claims. (I wish Thiessen would quit using the word proof. Proof is a mathematical term.)
The Christian can never win when this tilted playing field is used. Christian scientists have spent decades providing scientific proof, Christian archaeologists and astronomers have done the same, and so have many other researchers.
If Christian scientists have provided persuasive evidence for Thiessen’s claims, I haven’t seen it. If said evidence is what Thiessen says it is, why don’t Evangelical scientists show their work by publishing in reputable journals? Thiessen, a Bible literalist, believes the universe was created in six literal twenty-four-hour days, 6,027 years ago. Everything science tells us about the universe and our biological world says these claims are false. Thiessen demands “proof” from atheists, yet fails to offer persuasive evidence for his “scientific” claims apart from saying, “The Bible says.” According to him, the Bible — as interpreted by him — is inerrant and infallible, the ultimate authority and final answer to every question. This position, of course, is absurd. Sadly, Thiessen wants to argue science claims by appealing to faith. This may work with like-minded believers who accept his presuppositions, but will get him laughed out of the room by scientists and skeptics.
For the most part, the unbeliever just sits there, denies the evidence, and continues on their merry yet sin-loving way. The Christian has to learn that we do not dance to the unbeliever’s tune. What they demand doesn’t matter to us.
Thiessen’s peccadilloes are well known. A man who abandoned his family (including a child) and fled the United States to avoid paying child support, is in no position to lecture anyone on morality.
Of course what unbelievers “demand” matters to Thiessen. He has spent the past three years blogging about unbelievers, namely Bruce Gerencser and Ben Berwick. He has written hundreds of posts that directly or indirectly mention us. Yet, instead of engaging intellectually and rationally, Thiessen attacks our character or quotes Bible verses.
Once again, I challenge Thiessen to a public debate on YouTube. Let’s settle these issues once and for all, Derrick.
What matters is what God wants us to do in a given interaction with unbelievers. he knows their hearts and what will or won’t work with the individuals of that people group, so there is no sense jumping to meet the demands of the unbeliever.
Thiessen justifies his boorish behavior and lack of persuasive arguments by saying he’s just “doing what God wants him to do.” How can Thiessen possibly know what God wants him to do? How does he know the voices in his head are “God”?
I’m pleased that Derrick admits my lack of faith is God’s fault; that if God wants to save me, he will provide Evangelical apologists with the requisite tools necessary to bring me to saving faith. I’m dead in trespasses and sin, unable to save myself. My eternal destiny depends on God and Christians. So, I am waiting for God and his representatives on earth to come through. Until then, how about them Cowboys?
We listen to what God wants us to do and present the gospel meeting that instruction. If God does not want us to provide evidence, then we do not. Christians are under no obligation to provide physical evidence to unbelievers.
Evidently, Thiessen’s Bible is missing 1 Peter 3:15: But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.
This verse says: Derrick, always be ready to make a defense of your beliefs to Bruce Gerencser, Ben Berwick, and other unbelievers. And do it, not with name-calling and personal attacks, but with gentleness and respect.
Is this not, Derrick, exactly what the B-I-B-L-E says?
If the unbeliever does not accept changed lives as evidence, then there is little hope they will accept evidence from 2000 to 4000 years ago. The Silver Scrolls has been around for 50 years approx., showing that the Bible has not changed since the 7th century BC.
OMG, did Thiessen really say that “the Bible hasn’t changed since the seventh century BCE ( BC and AD are no longer used by academics other than Evangelicals)? I challenge Thiessen to provide actual evidence for this claim. Better yet, this would make an awesome debate topic. Of course, Thiessen will NEVER debate me on this subject. He knows, or should know, anyway, that his claim has no evidentiary basis. And I mean NONE. Thiessen’s claim is contrary to what Evangelical and secular scholars alike tell us about the nature and history of the sixty-six books of the Protestant Christian Bible and its underlying Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic texts.
Yet, few people accept that as evidence that the Bible is true and not edited. So what do we do with the evidence Christian researchers discover??
Simple. Provide empirical evidence that the Bible is inerrant/infallible (true) and has NEVER been edited. Of course, no such evidence exists. Instead, we know that the Bible is errant and fallible, and has been edited countless times. This is a fact, not a claim, as the relevant academic literature shows. Again, I point to Dr. Bart Ehrman’s bestselling books on the history and nature of the Bible (and I can give Thiessen a list of numerous other Bible scholars and theologians who agree with Ehrman).
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We need to keep the unbelievers honest as they will say anything to hide from the truth. The unbeliever does not have any hidden smoking gun physical evidence proving the Bible false. If you read BG’s response to yesterday’s post, you would have seen that he presents nothing to support his denials.
Sigh. I’m not going to write an academic paper every time a Thiessen gets his pink Victoria’s Secret panties with the days of the week on them in a knot over something I wrote about the Bible. I have covered these issues numerous times over the past seventeen years. Further, I have publicized the work of scholars such as Ehrman, Dr. Dan McClellan, Dr. Kip Davis, Dr. Joshua Bowen, and others — all of whom sport actual PhDs, unlike Thiessen’s unaccredited, diploma mill “doctorate.” I have also publicized debates featuring Matt Dillahunty and Alex O’Connor.
Why doesn’t Thiessen ever respond to their work, other than calling them names, belittling them, and asserting, without evidence, that they are wrong? Why are they wrong? They are unbelievers, and, according to Thiessen, unbelievers don’t know anything. Only Christians know the “truth.” (I assume Thiessen only sees and uses Christian doctors, lawyers, dentists, optometrists, auto mechanics, and contractors.)
That is because they have no physical evidence to prove their denials are correct. They have nothing thus they decide to be arrogant and demand Christians to prove their faith is true. Unbelievers are not in charge of what is or isn’t evidence.
Actually, logic, reason, and science determine what is and isn’t evidence. It’s absurd to appeal to an ancient religious text as the foundation and rules for what is evidence. Thiessen has made up his own rules of discourse and intellectual pursuit, demanding everyone play by his rules. He is akin to someone wanting to play poker with the rules for Go Fish. That ain’t going to work.
They would not know the evidence if it hit them in the face.
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Sure we would, but Thiessen rejects academic consensus, choosing instead to appeal to only Evangelical scholars or those who hold positions roundly dismissedby most Bible scholars, archeologists, and other experts in their relevant fields. It is up to him to empirically show why academic consensus is wrong.
And I am not saying academic consensus is always right. However, since neither Thiessen nor I are scholars, accepting consensus scholarship on any given issue is generally a good idea. As a pastor, I believed that if I came up with an interpretation contrary to academic consensus, I was likely wrong. Thiessen, on the other hand, thinks just because he can read the Bible in English that he is right.
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Do not cast pearls before swine and have the evidence trampled under their feet. If you do, you may lose what God has provided for you to remain strong in him. You never have to present physical evidence when sharing the gospel with unbelievers.
Again, 1 Peter 3:15 says: But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect.
Evidently, Thiessen doesn’t believe and practice the whole Bible —only the verses that suit him or justify his beliefs.
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The men recorded having their lives changed including one who used the Bible to roll his cigarettes and became a Christian when he got to the Gospel of John. Another example is the man who wrote the movie Ben Hur, another was an agnostic doctor, and more.
If the unbeliever cannot accept the fact that Christ changed lives, then it is doubtful they will accept other evidence. Dead men do not change lives, especially millions of them around the world throughout history.
Thiessen refuses to accept the fact that subjective experiences and personal testimonies prove nothing.
Seven million Americans are Mormons. To Derrick, I ask, are their subjective experiences and personal testimonies true? How about those of Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Roman Catholics, Charismatics, and other religious groups? I know how Thiessen will answer, but let’s see if he will actually expose the absurdity of his claim.
We are ignoring BG’s [Bruce Gerencser’s] response because it is unhinged, irrational, illogical, and unworthy of further comment. He gave up his faith and little can be done for him. Since it is not his faith anymore, he needs to shut up and mind his own business.
He and other atheists and people who left the faith are in no position to demand anything.
I don’t demand anything from Evangelicals (the only true Christians in Thiessen’s book) other than if they make claims and demand I accept them, I want to see evidence for their claims. If you say a virgin-born God-man, who later was executed and resurrected from dead, healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, turned tap water into wine, walked on water, walked through walls, teleported from one place to another, and worked so many miracles that all the books in the world, if they were written down, could not contain them, I’m going to want evidence for your claims; the same evidence Thiessen asks Muslims, Mormons, and other non-Evangelicals to provide for their claims. The Bible is not evidence, it is a book of claims. If Thiessen wants unbelievers to accept his Bible claims, he must provide evidence that supports his claims. It’s not enough to say “the Bible says.”
Derrick, I ain’t going away. No matter how many times you call me names, attack my character, or belittle my story, I plan to keep writing until I can physically no longer do so. That could happen soon — I hope not — but until it does, I will continue to share my story and help people who have doubts and questions about Christianity or who have left the faith. Rage against me all you want, Derrick, but I ain’t going away. I suggest you buy some Preparation H for what ails you.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, recently blew a gasket over my post Never Underestimate the Power of Jesus. Evidently, this post irritated the Hey-Zeus right out of him; so much so that he wanted to swear at me. Instead, he told me to “shut my hole.” Which hole, Derrick, which hole? 🤣
Here’s what Thiessen had to say. All spelling, grammar, punctuation, and irrationality in the original. Comments in brackets are mine:
We [I] get tired of those people who choose not to believe, refuse to believe,, or have walked away from the Christian faith asserting that Jesus is not real. [I’ve never said that Jesus wasn’t a real person. Thiessen knows this, yet he continues to say otherwise.] If you do not want to believe, then shut your holes. [Which hole, Derrick?] It is not your faith and you have no business sticking your nose into the beliefs and reality of Christianity. [Sure, I do. It’s called public discourse. If it’s wrong for me to write about Christianity, it’s wrong for fake Dr. Tee to write about atheism.]
You have no mandate to ‘expose Christianity’ because everything about the Christian faith and God is already exposed and has been known for 2000 years. [The Canon wasn’t even settled for three centuries. Christianity has always been an evolving religion. Thiessen’s rigid Fundamentalism drives him to irrationally think he believes the exact same things the Apostle Paul did.] You have the freedom to choose, now let those that have chosen to believe the Bible an din Christ enjoy their faith without your unverifiable, unprovable, and unsubstantiated subjective claims. [Who’s keeping anyone from believing anything? No, what Thiessen is afraid of is people learning that he is peddling a lie.]
What put us in this less than tactful mood [or this is why I’m being an asshole] is a post by BG [Bruce Gerencser] who makes those same claims yet refuses to produce one shred of credible, verifiable, provable physical evidence.
….
Prove that Jesus did not rise from the dead. Just saying that people die and stay dead is not proof or evidence. [Sure, it is. Everyone dies, Jesus included.] It is an assertion that has no basis in reality. [Reality shows everyone dies. No need to make an assertion.] Prove the resurrection is false using science on Jesus’s body, grave, and grave clothes, and not on anyone else. [Please provide the body of Jesus, along with his grave clothes and the location of his grave, and we will do so. Of course, Thiessen can provide none of these things. His evidence for the resurrection of Jesus from the dead? The Bible says so. Color me unimpressed.]
However, we know that Jesus rose from the dead because of the millions of changed lives that have taken place since his resurrection. You do not get those change dives from believing in a dead person who did not rise. [The size of a religion proves nothing. Catholicism, Islam, and Buddhism have numbers much larger than Thiessen’s peculiar brand of Christianity. Using Thiessen’s logic, this means these religions are true.]
We have the evidence for his resurrection in those millions of lives, what does BG [Bruce Gerencser] or other atheists have? They need to present their own evidence that Jesus did not change those lives and not simply create some fanciful explanation not supported by real physical evidence. [Thiessen is living proof that Christ does not change lives. So are others just like him who despise and demean anyone who believes differently from them.]
….
We [I] call BG [Bruce Gerencser] to provide credible, verifiable, and real physical evidence that the accounts talking about Jesus are myths. Just because myths and legends exist, does it mean that those biblical accounts are myths. [The Bible is a book of claims. Until the Thiessens of the world provide empirical evidence for these claims, that all they are — claims.]
BG [Bruce Gerencser] and other atheists cannot just point to secular myths and claim that because these myths exist, the biblical accounts are myths. [I have never done this.] 3Nor can they simply point to the fact science cannot prove those accounts.
Science is not designed to study the supernatural and is disqualified from use. [No one suggested otherwise.] Plus, science cannot determine what really took place in the past because it cannot see into the past to see what did take place. [Thiessen can’t see back to the beginning of time, yet he feels qualified to do so anyway. He wants one set of rules for atheists, and another for himself.]
Come up with something else. [Okay, I think the designated hitter rule should be banned.] The fact that millions of people are believing the same accounts without alterations is proof that the biblical accounts are not myths. Do millions and millions of people believe that Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and other superheroes exist?
They follow the comics but does their belief bring those imaginary characters to life? Do those imaginary characters get involved with real human lives and change them forever while granting them special gifts and paradise to live in when they die? [Again, these are claims for which Thiessen provides no evidence other than “The Bible says so.”
Not one superhero has offered eternal life to anyone who believes they exist.[Fine, I Bruce Almighty offer eternal life to everyone who sends me $1.] Plus, not one superhero has changed one life and rescued humans from sin. However, Jesus has which is why millions of people believe in him. [Why didn’t he change your life, Derrick? Your tree is barren.]
Plus, Jesus does not need anyone to believe in him to exist. He exists even if no one wrote about him. But BG [Bruce Gerencser] and other atheists need to provide the proof that the biblical accounts are myths first. [This is presuppositionalism at its worst. No argument can pierce the ignorance.]
….
This is head-in-the-sand thinking which does not provide any evidence to their validity. All it does is show the lack of rational and logical thought on the part of BG [Bruce Gerencser] and other atheists. Bring [where should I deliver it?] verifiable and credible physical evidence that there is no evidence supporting the Bible, its instruction, and its historical foundation.
….
BG [Bruce Gerencser] needs to prove that Jesus was not there during those times [when my in-laws suffered tragedy.]. just because the results were not what BG [Bruce Gerencser] wanted to see does not mean Jesus was not there. [Ah yes, a Jesus who is “there” yet is invisible.] He needs to bring credible, verifiable, and real physical evidence proving Jesus abandoned them and other Christians.
….
BG [Big Gonads] needs to prove that Jesus is fraudulent. Appealing to other unbelievers is not evidence nor is it proof. Ehrman does not have the truth nor does any unbeliever so what good would reading their books do? Nothing.
BG [Ball Grabber] needs to prove with credible, verifiable physical evidence that Erhman has the truth and Jesus is a fraud. Too many people who have experienced Jesus know better. If he does not have the proof, then his claims are false.
The atheist and other unbelievers have made extraordinary claims about Jesus, God, the Bible, and Christianity thus the onus is on them to provide credible, verifiable, and real physical evidence to show they are correct.
if they do not, then they need to shut up and mind their own business.
….
BG [Bruce Gerencser] and MM [Ben Berwick] whine and complain about our using those initials and not ‘referencing’ their websites. [Yes, we ask you to follow Internet guidelines for using the material of others. Instead, you steal our content and refuse to properly link to our sites. Seventeen years, Derrick, and you are the only blogger who behaves this way towards me.] But both people have acted in a horrendous manner towards us[me] that they [I] lost our [my] respect for them and their decisions. [And I don’t care. What I wish you would do is move on to someone else to harass and molest. Three years, Derrick, and you are still blogging about me several times a week. I offered to send you a nude picture of me if that would put an end to your unhealthy obsession with me. It’s icky, Dude. I’m not gay. Please stop.]
The above-quoted beliefs of one atheist [Bruce Gerencser[ just make it harder to respect them and their wishes. If they do not like how we [I] do things on OUR [MY] website, they can shut up. [The post Thiessen is upset about has nothing to do with him.] Just like they need to shut up about how bad Christianity and Christians are. [If Thiessen wants atheists to stop pointing out bad Christian behavior, I suggest believers try harder. You know, stop being Assholes for Jesus. I predict Thiessen will write a post defending child molester Robert Morris. Thiessen has yet to meet a child molester he couldn’t defend.]
They have no proof to support their denials and positions so they need to talk about other things, not Christianity. [Okay, let’s talk about penis size.] The last words [You will never say another word?] are to them BRING your verifiable, credible, and real physical evidence, or never say another word about Christianity again. [Sure Derrick, sure.🤣]
By Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, Who Are They Going to Vote For, Then?
Everyone and his dog knows that Mr. Trump faced nothing but kangaroo courts and those verdicts are ludicrous. There was no justice in those trials and it was widely advertised that they would get Mr. Trump. That is not how the law is supposed to work yet in his case, that is how it went.
If there is anyone Christians should not be voting for it is Mr. Biden and the rest of the democrats. They are the party that supports sin and evil, calling them good and right, as well as normal and no Christian in their right mind can vote for such policies or people.
We have also seen the Democrats abuse and ignore the nation’s laws to fulfill their agendas. This is the point of why shaming Christians for removing their support from Mr. Trump. The opposition knows that it is the Christian block that can make or break an election and the democrats are doing everything in their power to ensure they win the election.
If they do win the election, say good-bye to America as that country needs to be destroyed for the one-world government to take over. Plus, with America out of the way, other nations will destroy their neighbors and too many innocent people will die for no reason other than the democrats want power and control over everything.
Don’t be fooled by the news pundits, the leftist politicians, and others who try to get Christians’ support away from Mr. Trump. It is not wrong for Christians to vote for Mr. Trump nor is it wrong to support his candidacy.
There is no perfect candidate in this race and there are no better ones to vote for. Mr. Trump has already proven how good he would be as president as we have his first 4 years providing us the evidence we need to see that he will do a good job.
Biden has failed in his four years and he is senile now. No one can vote for him as he is not qualified to be president. It is an embarrassment to see him led around by his wife. He is the leader of the strongest nation in the world yet he is not capable of walking under his own direction.
That is embarrassing and pitiful. Make your own choices for whom to vote and make sure you select wisely as your security and safety are at stake.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Revival Fires is like an incurable rash. It comes and goes, but never completely goes away. All I can do is apply the ointment of reason and common sense, hoping that the rash will recede. Revival Fires has been commenting on this site for several years. He also sends me emails and social media messages. I have repeatedly reported Revival Fires to Facebook — without success. He routinely violates Facebook’s terms of service, using fake email addresses and fake names to set up new accounts so he can harass me.
Lately, Revival Fires is using the “John Younger” moniker. He left numerous comments on my business Facebook page. In the past, he has contacted my partner, Polly, our children, and even their friends. In particular, he continues to harass my youngest son’s transgender friend.
Yesterday, Revival Fires sent me the following message:
Much like Dr. David Tee and countless other apologists, Revival Fires arrogantly thinks that beliefs=truth; particularly that his personal beliefs are the same as “truth.” This, of course, is patently untrue. Just because we believe something doesn’t mean it’s true. Consider all the things MAGA devotees believe about Donald Trump. Are their beliefs true? No, yet Trump’s followers are certain he is the greatest president in the history of the United States. Factually, he is not. I saw similar behavior in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement when it came to Jack Hyles, then pastor of First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana. The evidence (the truth) against Hyles was overwhelming, yet, even today, years after his death, some people believe Hyles was the greatest preacher since the Apostle Paul. (Please see The Legacy of IFB Pastor Jack Hyles.)
Revival Fires says that I am not interested in the truth. Of course, when he uses the word “truth,” he is referring to his personal beliefs. He thinks that people who are sincerely interested in truth will believe as he does. I am sure you have noticed this same attitude with Dr. David Tee. He’s not interested in honest debate and discussion. God gave him the words to say in his post on this site, so everything he wrote is “truth.” Anyone who disagrees agrees with him isn’t interested in knowing the truth.
In John 18, Pilate said to Jesus, “What is truth”? That’s a good question. Revival Fires, Dr. David Tee, and other apologists believe that the Bible, from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21, is truth; that the Bible is divinely inspired, inerrant, and infallible. There are books and then there’s the Bible. It is different and superior to ALL the books ever written.
While the Bible does contain truth, to suggest that it is the sum of truth, perfect in all that it says, is absurd. The standard definition of the word truth is “that which comports with reality.” Does everything the Bible says comport with reality? Only a rabid Fundamentalist would say yes.
Let me be clear, as a skeptic, humanist, and atheist, I am deeply committed to truth. I want to believe as many true things as possible. One of the reasons I left Christianity is because its teachings did not comport with reality. I weighed the central claims of Christianity in the balance and found them wanting. I am more than willing to confess my faith in Christ and follow him. All I ask for is sufficient empirical evidence for core Christian beliefs. I am willing to follow the path wherever it leads. The journey is what matters to me, not the destination.
I am confident that I have carefully and satisfactorily examined the claims Evangelicals make for the existence of the Christian God and the veracity of the Bible. I find these claims lacking. Until apologists come up with new or better arguments, I see no reason to pay them a moment’s notice. I am open to truth Christians, but not the shallow, irrational, contradictory truth you are currently peddling.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
David Tee/Derrick Thomas Thiessen is the tall man in the back
Derrick Thiessen (who sometimes uses the pseudonym Dr. David Tee) is a retired preacher, English teacher, and currently works as a freelance writer. He has several graduate degrees in theology, archaeology and history and has authored several books.
As a believer, we desire to win as many people to Christ as possible. Our specific ministry has been to bring Christians past square one to spiritual maturity. We have accomplished that through our two websites and books.
We have also sought to help pastors, missionaries, and Christian workers through the same avenue. Christians of all levels must be fed the proper spiritual food. They need to strengthen their faith and have the right information to defend what they believe.
Those actions are not a waste of time. But is it a waste of time and energy to prepare data, verifiable and credible physical evidence, and other historical, astronomical, and scientific information and present it to most unbelievers, atheists, and former Christians?
Why go to all that work and trouble when you know that those people groups will do what Dr. Phillip Davies did when he was presented with the evidence proving ancient Israel was as the Bible said?
All he did was close his eyes, shake his head, and repeat over and over that ‘it did not happen’. Are there any members of those people groups who are open-minded and who will take an honest look at what has been gathered and presented?
It is our experience that very few members of those people groups will be that way. Also, we have learned that even if believers discover the real ark used during Noah’s flood unbelievers will find something to criticize and justify their decision to reject it as physical evidence for the flood.
So what is the point in Christians meeting the demand of unbelievers to present evidence when they will only receive a cold reception and blind dismissal?
We understand that unbelievers are afraid of seeing the Bible proven true. If they were not afraid or if the atheists were right and there is no God, they would have no trouble honestly examining the evidence.
One example of this fear is a comment made in a Patterns of Evidence video posted to YouTube. The scholar providing the upcoming response hit the nail on the head, and we do this from memory when he said that unbelieving scholars and archaeologists do not want to prove the Exodus true.
He said ‘If they do, then they have to confront the reality of the Bible and make wholesale changes to their lives and bodies of work.’ Regular unbelievers can have peace that they are not the only ones who are afraid of seeing the Bible proven true.
This is one reason why they make so many unrealistic demands. One militant atheist we have known for a long time once told us to ‘go and dig’ when we talked about the evidence for Noah’s flood.
The problem with that is we cannot dig every square inch of the earth to uncover all the evidence he wants to see. Even if we present that evidence he is incapable or unwilling to accept it and convert.
There are two problems with providing evidence for Noah’s flood. The first is that a myriad of researchers have uncovered verifiable physical evidence for it. Graham Hancock has been one of those researchers as have Drs. Charles Hapgood, Ryan, Pittman, and Rehwenkle to name a few.
Their failure to recognize this evidence stems from problem number two. The majority of researchers and other folks do not know what evidence for a global flood would look like.
There has been only one and that event is difficult to excavate due to the construction, wars, natural disasters, and other events that change the nature of the evidence or remove it from existence.
When Sir Leonard Woolley declared he had found the flood layer in UR, the mainstream archaeologists at that time said he was wrong because the layer was not uniform. But does the flood layer have to be uniform to be evidence of the flood?
An honest person, taking into account all the variables that would change the design of the flood layer, would say no. A person who is not honest would close their mind and say yes.
The failure to accept the mitigating factors surrounding the discovery of evidence means that the person or persons hearing the evidence will not listen and waste the presenter’s time.
It is not that there is a lack of credible and verifiable physical evidence for the majority of biblical events. The internet is full of both Christian and secular websites that present this evidence and they are all easily accessed.
The key to all of this is the one word scientists, atheists, and other unbelievers hate. God created the equation to prove that he exists and his word is true. That word is faith. The Bible tells us that by faith we please God.
Thus God is not going to provide all the physical evidence anyone wants to see or demands. God is not going to destroy what pleases him. This means that we will only get enough physical evidence to strengthen our faith, not ruin it.
This is why there is no scientific evidence for the creation of the world. Creation was a one-time supernatural act that was not enacted using any scientific method.
The way science is constructed, it is impossible for that research field to analyze creation. It will not produce any evidence for that act. Science can study the results of creation and see that God’s word is true but that is as far as science can go.
Those who demand scientific evidence are merely using that demand to hide from the truth. Those who make unrealistic demands do so for the same reason. They do not want the Bible to be true for they would have to deal with the information like the archaeologists and other scholars mentioned earlier would have to do.
God uses faith to help divide the sheep from the goats. His equation tells him who believes him and who does not. Faith is merely believing God and the physical evidence is nothing but a supporting cast member.
So the question is, are you an honest, open-minded unbeliever or are you one of those dishonest, closed-minded ones that will not even give the evidence a fair hearing?
If you are the latter, don’t waste Christians’ time. Just stop making unrealistic demands for evidence that you will never listen to. If you want evidence then you should be prepared to give it a fair hearing and careful consideration.
Note: Thiessen refuses to comment on this site, nor does he allow comments on his main blog. Derrick said in his email to me:
Same instructions apply. It does not need your editor/assistant’s help. I will take the heat for any mistakes alleged or otherwise. I will also read all comments and respond on my own website if the need to respond is there.
Thank you for publishing it as is.
The only thing changed on Thiessen’s post was the title. It originally said, “Is It a Waste of Time” without proper punctuation. His chosen title was unspecific and ambiguous. I changed it to reflect its content. The body of the post was unchanged. I also shortened the bio and provided proper links.
BG opened his website to submit guest posts. He made the offer that anyone can send one in so we did. We asked God first to help us write what needed to be written and told him to publish it as is without his assistant doing any editing.
We shall see if that instruction is met and if he publishes our entry. We kept a copy to compare if and when it sees the light of day.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
By Dr. David Tee, world-class Egyptologist, archaeologist, biologist, cosmologist, and Bible scholar, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, A Word About Egyptian Chronology, May 30, 2024
This is a monumental task. Revision of all the chronologies would change history and support the validity of the Biblical record. As one scholar said . . . no one wants to prove the Exodus true because that would mean they would have to deal with the reality that the Bible is true (paraphrased from memory).
That experience would mean that scholars would have to change their lives, conclusions, academic papers, and books as well as seriously consider accepting Christ as their Savior [the former bears no connection with the latter].
Not many scholars are willing to do that. Here is the realization that God taught us [me] as we [I] were watching those videos [Patterns of Evidence (POE)]. The Egyptian Chronology is not inspired nor is it infallible.
Christian scholars and archaeologists cannot link the Biblical chronology to the Egyptian one and make it subservient to the latter. In fact, all of the scholars and the items they use to determine ancient timelines are not inspired or infallible. There are no absolute dates or events that cannot be changed.
Only the Bible and its timeline cannot be changed because it is inspired and infallible. [Yet, it has been edited, changed, and corrected thousands of times.] The Biblical chronology is the one that influences all others, not the Egyptian one. [in other words, when facts, evidence, or probabilities conflict with the Bible, the B-i-b-l-e is ALWAYS right.]
Those Christians who do not make this change will have trouble harmonizing ancient events with the biblical record and they will also have trouble with their faith. They are not getting to the truth but provide a helping hand in hiding it.
This is crucial for all Christian scholars, historians, and archaeologists, as well as regular Christians. Getting to the truth means not following the secular world and not letting their information damage the Bible. [Actually, getting to the truth means following the evidence wherever it leads, even if doing so uproots things we previously believed. I want to believe as many true things as possible. Unfortunately, Thiessen only wants to believe things that affirm, reinforce, and bolster his Fundamentalist beliefs. Everything else is a Satanic lie from the pit of Hell.]
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
