Polly and Bruce Gerencser, Our Father’s House, West Unity, Ohio Circa 2000
Several years ago, Kenneth asked:
I am currently married to a Southern Baptist woman who is likely never going to change her mind about her beliefs. I deconverted late last year and am now an atheist. I’m curious as to how your wife ended up an atheist seemingly around the same time as you? I guess deep down I want her to see my views as an atheist but if anyone knows how hard it is to talk to a Christian as an atheist, it is you. My question is, can you tell us more about how Polly came to the same conclusions as you during the time of your deconversion? Maybe she can give us some input too. In a lot of scenarios, one spouse is still stuck as a believer while both the atheist and theist struggle with now being in a “mixed” marriage — I’m in one of them now. Thanks!
After we decided in 2005 we no longer wanted to be Pastor and Mrs. Bruce Gerencser, we spent a few years trying to find a church that took seriously the teaching of Jesus. Not finding such a church frustrated us and led us to conclude that the Christianity of Jesus no longer existed, and most churches were just different flavors of ice cream; same base ingredients with different added flavors. (Please see But Our Church is DIFFERENT!) The last church we attended was Ney United Methodist Church, four blocks from our home
For most of 2008, I had been doing quite a bit of reading about the history of Christianity and the Bible. From Bart Ehrman to Robert M. Price to Elaine Pagels, I read dozens of books that challenged and attacked my Christian beliefs. Polly and I spent many a night discussing what I had read. I often read large passages of this or that book to her and we would compare what we had been taught with what these books said. While Polly was never one to read nonfiction, she did read several of Bart Ehrman’s books. Over time, both of us came to the conclusion that what we had been taught wasn’t true. We also concluded that we were no longer, in any meaningful sense, Christian. The last Sunday in November 2008, we walked out of Ney United Methodist, never to return. Several months later, I wrote the infamous Dear Family, Friends, and Former Parishioners, which I sent to hundreds of Evangelical family members, friends, and former church members.
For a time, both of us were content calling ourselves agnostics. I soon realized that the agnostic label required too much explanation, so I embraced the atheist label. While Polly is hesitant to use the atheist moniker, her beliefs about God, Christianity, and the Bible are similar to mine. She’s not one to engage in discussion or debate, content to go about her godless life without having to define herself. I often wish I could be like her.
When we left Christianity, I feared that Polly’s deconversion was a coattail deconversion; that she was following after me just like she was taught to do in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church. Some of my critics, unwilling to give Polly credit for doing her own thinking and decision-making, have suggested that Polly was/is being led astray by me. Fundamentalist family members have voiced their concern over Polly being drawn into my godlessness, rarely giving her credit for being able to think and reason for herself. Their insinuations only reinforce her belief that she made the right decision when she deconverted. Polly graduated second in her high school class and has a college degree. She is quite capable of thinking for herself. Granted, this ability was quashed for many years thanks to being taught that she should always defer to me as the head of the home. That I was also her pastor only made things worse. I can confidently say that Polly is her own person, and her unbelief is her own.
Where our stories diverge a bit is the reasons why we deconverted. While both of us would say we had intellectual reasons for abandoning God and Christianity, Polly’s deconversion had a larger emotional component than mine did. We’ve spent countless hours talking about the past, this or that church, and the experiences each of us had. Polly spent most of her married life under the shadow of her preacher husband. I’m amazed at how differently she views our shared past, now free to speak openly. While I was the center of attention, heaped with praise and love, she was in the shadows, the afterthought, the one who had to do all the jobs church members had no time for. It should come as no surprise that her view of the 25 years we spent in the ministry is much different from mine.
As I’m writing this post I am thinking to myself, Polly needs to be telling this story. I can’t tell her story. While I can give the gist of it, I think it is better if she tells her story, that is if she is willing to do. I do know that she has no desire to relive the “wonderful” ministry years. She’s quite content to be free of God, the church, and the Bible, free to just be Polly. Not Polly, the pastor’s daughter, not Polly, the preacher’s wife, just Polly. And I can say the same for myself. While I am noted for being a preacher-turned-atheist, an outspoken critic of Evangelicalism, I am content just to be Bruce. Most of our life was swallowed up by the ministry, so we are quite glad to be free and we enjoy the opportunity to live our lives on our own terms.
In many ways, our story is not typical. I’ve received scores of emails from people who deconverted and are now in mixed marriages. Like Kenneth, they want to share their unbelief with their spouses, but are unable to do so because of their spouse’s Christian beliefs or because they fear outing themselves will destroy their marriages. (Please see Count the Cost Before You Say I Am an Atheist.) Polly and I fully realize that if one of us had remained a Christian it could (would?) have ended our marriage. We are grateful that we’ve been able to walk this path together hand in hand. The farther away we get from the years we spent in the ministry, the more we realize how good we have it. Our deconversion could have destroyed our marriage and alienated us from our children, but it didn’t. Instead, we’ve been given a new lease on life; the opportunity for each of us to seek our own path. We deeply love one another, have six wonderful children and thirteen grandkids, and are, in every way, b-l-e-s-s-e-d.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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I am certain you are far more intelligent a man than I am, so I do not wish to debate you.
Thank you for recognizing my intellectual greatness. 🙂 All kidding aside, I am just an everyday Joe, a man who tries to help those who have doubts and questions about Christianity or who have already left the faith.
I am not an evangelist for atheism. I have no interest in evangelizing Christians, hoping to convert them to the holy trinity of reason, skepticism, and humanism. I am just one man with a story to tell. Perhaps you should ponder why my story resonates with so many people?
My fifty years in the Christian church and twenty-five years in the ministry have given me deep insight into and understanding of Evangelical Christianity. I try to use what I know to help those who are trying to escape the hold Evangelicalism has on their lives.
I am grateful that many people have found my writing helpful. Some of the people I have helped deconverted and are now atheists or agnostics. Others moved on to kinder, gentler forms of Christianity or other religions altogether. At no time in the past fourteen years have I told some they had to become an atheist lest they face watching A Christmas Story on an endless loop for eternity — a true hell if there ever was one.
I was rejected by two independent fundamentalist Baptist congregations in two different states, but I stand in their defense.
Consider yourself lucky. The Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement is a cult. It will be a good day when the movement shrivels up and dies. In fact, I hope one of my thirteen grandchildren live long enough to hold a pillow over the face of IFB church movement as it lies on its death bed gasping for air. I hope my grandchild will say to them, “this is for Grandpa and Nana and countless other people you have misused, abused, and harmed.”
They are going out of their way to send a few to heaven, while you are going out of your way to send a few more to hell.
There is no Heaven or Hell. Do you have any evidence that proves otherwise? Outside of what unknown ancient authors wrote about a Heaven and Hell, we have no evidence for their existence. I reject the Bible out of hand. The only Hell I am trying to deliver people from is the very real and present hell caused by Fundamentalist religions.
I can’t for the life of me understand why, disgruntled as you are, you would go out of your way to take a personal hand in someone’s trip to eternal punishment.
I am not disgruntled. Bad word choice, Robert. I am quite happy in life — chronic pain and illness aside. I’m only disgruntled when the Bengals lose or the Reds trade away yet another player. The Bengals put a beatdown on the Steelers yesterday, so I am one happy fella.
I am an atheist, so I don’t believe in the existence of God, Satan, Heaven, Hell, or eternal punishment. Just because the Bible says something doesn’t mean it’s true. The Bible is not inerrant or infallible. Written by men, it is filled with errors and contradictions. Why should any of us pay attention to anything the Bible says?
If you have not read any of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books, I encourage you to do so. Ehrman is a renowned New Testament scholar. I think you will find his books enlightening. Let me know what you think.
You ought to repent of this attitude and behavior while you are yet alive and repair your relationship with a God who undoubtedly still loves you, and stop taking an active hand in encouraging others to sin against a Holy God and ensuring their damnation.
No God. No sin. No Heaven. No Hell. No damnation. No relationship.
I am quite happy where I am, as I am. You have said nothing in your comments, Robert, that would remotely entice me to return to Christianity. Sorry, but thousands of people have come before you, slinging the same empty religious words, invectives, and judgments. You are going have to do better than this. Better yet, pray and ask God to reach down into my cold, hard, darkened heart and save me. Surely, God is able to do so, right? Why send middlemen? Jesus knows where I live. He even has my cellphone number and email address. Text me Hey-zeus and we will meet for lunch.
Shame on you, sir.
For what, telling my story or sharing my opinions about Evangelical Christianity? What is shameful about what I do? I keep my pants zipped, unlike the Evangelical preachers featured in the Black Collar Crime Series.
You have all the information you need to attack me for making this statement, but I assure you that there is very little left to attack. Good day, sir. And may you recognize your error while there is still time.
Do you feel persecuted, Robert? Really? Aren’t you the one who chose to comment on this site? I am the one who should feel “persecuted.” But, I don’t. Every Evangelical commenter gets one chance to share what the dead Jesus has laid upon their hearts. You have had yours. I hope you said everything God wanted you to say. (Please see Comment Policy.)
In your cynical statement about the seemingly unseen “book of rules,” you failed to mention that they ultimately came from a God who loves you, and has your best interest at heart.
All I did was share a list of the rules I heard preached in IFB churches over the course of fifty years. No cynicism, just facts. These rules were not uttered by Jesus/God/Holy Spirit. They came straight from the mouths of preachers — the only true gods of IFB churches.
Please look at the list and provide Bible prooftexts for each rule. Not inferences, interpretations, or opinions. What I want to see are the words straight from the mouth of God. Good luck, Robert.
My question is: Are you judging all IFB pastor’s and deacons by the standards you kept for yourself in the pulpit for forty-five years?
I am not judging anyone. All I am doing is telling my story, recounting past beliefs and experiences. If the shoe fits, wear it. No one is forced to read this blog. Whosever will let him read.
Or are you judging them by God’s word, which likely looks unfavorably on you? I may yet end up in Hell myself, but I won’t see you there, nor will you see me. We will be far too busy with other concerns of self to think about the presence of other’s we might by then hope would be there with us.
I have no worries about Hell or eternity. One life twill soon be past and then we are dead. End of story. I suspect I will be dead soon. I have come to terms with my mortality. I hope I live five or ten more years, but if I don’t I am confident that the only thing I will experience when I die is darkness and nothingness — much like when I came into the world.
What did you hope accomplish with your comments? Surely you know that nothing you can say will lead me back to Jesus. That ship has sailed.
Thank you for commenting.
A sinner saved by reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Did you know that training a child is a lot like training a dog? Using Proverbs 22:6, train up a child in the way he should go:and when he is old he will not depart from it, as a foundation,Allen Domelle, editor of the Old Paths Journal and an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) evangelist, compares training a Rottweiler to training a child.
Domelle writes (link no longer active):
In recent years, I have owned several Rottweilers…One of the current dogs I got from them is Tydy. Tydy is a female Rottweiler who weighs in at about 100 pounds, and is all muscle. She is a beautiful dog! Like all Rottweilers, Tydy is a strong-minded dog and needs a strong owner. Don’t get me wrong, she is the most loving dog you can be around, but she is a very strong-willed dog which requires my wife, daughter and me to be sure to be strong, calm and assertive owners.
When I got her as a pup, I immediately started training her. For the most part, she was a pretty easy dog to train. One thing I quickly noticed about her is that it is very hard to break her focus once she gets sidetracked. She is a well-trained dog that I can take to any public place, but I have to be sure to stay engaged with her and keep her focused on what I command her to do.
One morning I was taking her for a walk, and I decided to try something different to keep her from being sidetracked when other people, dogs or distractions walked by us. I took a bag of dog treats and got her nose working instead of her eyes. I quickly found out that I could keep her focused by making me more attractive than those things that would normally sidetrack her. I learned to get a treat out and hold it by her nose which caused her to stay focused on me every time something came that usually sidetracked her. I learned by doing this that she wanted to stay with me more than she wanted to focus on anything else.
That morning it made me realize the importance of parents keeping God’s way attractive so that their children don’t get sidetracked by the Devil and the world. Proverbs 22:6 says, “Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.” Just like I train my dog to obey me, every parent has a responsibility to train their child in the right way of life. The age-old problem that most parents face is keeping their children walking in the right ways. I am by no means an expert in child rearing, but I learned that morning walking my dog that if parents would keep the right way attractive, then fewer children would be sidetracked by the world and the Devil.
The principles in training a child and a dog are very similar. It takes time to train. God did not tell us, “Teach a child in the way he should go,” but He commanded us to “Train up a child in the way he should go…” If we are going to keep our children walking in the right ways after they leave home, then we must keep God’s way more attractive than the world’s. There are several thoughts that come to mind when I think of keeping the way attractive.
Here are a few of the comparisons Domelle makes between dog training and child training:
Training a dog is not always accepted by those who don’t know how to train dogs. Many who don’t know anything about training dogs will think you are being mean to the dog by not allowing the dog to do what it wants to do, but in the long run my dogs have much more freedom than theirs because I can take my dog in public off leash and they can’t. The dog trainer always has to keep a closed ear to the critics and keep their eye on the way they know will turn out a good dog.One thing you must always remember is that doing right is always right even when it seems nobody else is doing it. You must keep in mind that God’s way is always right whether or not others are doing it. If you do train your child in the way, you will find there will be times when criticism comes your way, but you must not forsake the way. Jesus says in John 14:6, “…I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” Don’t ever doubt the way because people have said that it doesn’t work. Don’t change the way because society doesn’t agree with it. The way is always right even when the whole world doesn’t agree with it. You know where God’s way is taking your children, so don’t leave it because another way seems more attractive.
Training a dog takes patience, hard work, time and determination. If training a dog was easy, then everybody would train their own dog. We know it’s not easy because most people want someone else to train their dog for them. They want others to do the work that theyshould be doing. What most dog owners don’t realize is that they can get the dog professionally trained, but if the dogis going to continue to act the way it should, then the owners are going to haveto be consistent with the rules of training when the dog comes home. This won’t always be easy. That is why you have so many dogs that are out of control.Training children is not an easy task, but let me assure you that you are up to the task. Just like people want someone to train their dog, many parents leave the spiritual training to the church, Sunday school teachers, youth leaders or to the Christian school, but God places that responsibility on the parent. Training children takes wisdom, time, patience, hard work, communication and determination by both parents. If training children were easy, then every child would turn out right. What I have found out is that most parents struggle with their children because they have not taken the time to train them. They tell them what to do, but training is showing them how to do it and following through with each directive. Training children in the way is not going to be easy, but it is very much worth the time and effort when your children continue walking in God’s way.
While I certainly can find points of agreement with Domelle, I find it troubling that he would equate training a dog with training a child. Dog owners often take their animals to obedience school. I suspect, knowing that Domelle is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preacher, he thinks that the home and the church are akin to a dog obedience school. Train them when they are young and they will obey and turn out well. Teach a child to come when called for, sit or run when commanded to do so, and urinate and defecate in the proper place, and all will be well, right?
Fundamentalists like Domelle think that every problem can be solved with discipline and obedience. Read and study the Bible, pray without ceasing, attend church every time the doors are open, tithe and give offerings to the church, and witness to unbelievers. These practices must be drilled into Christian heads until they become second nature. These are the first steps, the first works, that Christians must take on the path of obedience. Once indoctrinated, believers are more likely to obey other laws, commands, and precepts preachers say are straight from God himself. Start the indoctrination and conditioning when children are young, it will be easier to get them to accept whatever the pastor says is “truth” when they get older. If the pastor says, THE BIBLE SAYS, that’s the dog’s, I mean the child’s, cue to perk up, listen, and obey.
Like every IFB preacher, Domelle sees Proverbs 22:6 as the blueprint for raising children who turn out “right.” Domelle believes parents must train their children in THE WAY to have any hope of their children turning out as God-fearing, pastor-obeying born-again Christians. According to Proverbs 22:6, if parents train their children in the proper way, when they grow old they will not depart from their training. However, as the readership of this blog can attest, this training does not automatically result in adult children loving, serving, and obeying the Christian God.
Polly and I were blessed with six children. From birth, we trained them in THE WAY, yet none of them stayed on the Proverbs 22:6 path as adults. Why is this? Shouldn’t the early dog God training have ensured their obedience? All of them were in their late teens and older when we stopped walking in THE WAY. Why are none of them committed Evangelicals today? Was there some flaw in the training they received that resulted in all six of them abandoning the One True Faith® of their childhood? One would think after fifteen to twenty-nine years of indoctrination and conditioning that they would have stayed on the straight and narrow. But, they didn’t. Why?
Domelle’s child-rearing model is based on strict rules and obedience. Do this and thou shalt live, is the gospel of Evangelicalism. For all their talk about grace, Evangelicals really believe in a gospel of works. Believe the “right” things + live the “right” way = a divine doggie treat called Heaven after death. While many Evangelicals will likely object to my characterization of their beliefs, once all the flowery theological jargon is stripped away, what is left is a belief system that requires fidelity to certain beliefs and a life lived according to those beliefs. Anyone who doesn’t believe the right things and live the right way doesn’t get a treat when they die.
While I am hesitant to use my children as an example, I think doing so will help illustrate the fallacy of Proverbs 22:6 and the Domelle Child Training Program®. Ask anyone who knew our children when they were young and they will tell you that our children were polite, respectful, obedient children. All of them made professions of faith, were active in church, and when they were old enough to work they gave liberally to the church, missions, and the needy. They were, in every way, perfect examples of obedient Christian children. Yet, look at them today. What in the H-E-L-L happened?
When their father, the only pastor they ever had, left the ministry and later left Christianity, they were forced to fend for themselves. No longer were they trained pets, obedient to every command from their earthly and heavenly father. They became wild animals roaming free without the leash of the Bible or the hovering presence of their father. Instead of following a predetermined path, each of them was/is free to wander down paths of their own choosing. No dog whistle or stern command to call them back. They are F-R-E-E, free from the strictures of Evangelicalism, the Bible, their parents, and grandparents.
To the outsider, this freedom looks like confusion. Behind their back, fellow employees whisper, (please read out loud with “concerned” Christian voice) did you know _____________ Dad was a pastor? Did you know that _______________ Dad is the atheist who writes those anti-Christian letters in the newspaper? What happened to them? Freedom is what happened to them. Each of our children is free to choose their own path. If they are happy, then Polly and I are happy.
I know some of you are sure to ask, what does your wife think of all of this? Quite surprisingly, she is in agreement with me on many of these things. Not all of them, but close enough that I can still see her standing here. Polly is no theologian, she is not trained in theology as I am. She loves to read fiction. I was able to get her to read Bart Ehrman’s book Misquoting Jesus and she found the book to be quite an eye opener.
Polly is free to be whom and whatever she wishes. If she wanted to start attending the local Fundamentalist Baptist Church she is free to do so and even has my blessing. For now, she doesn’t. She may never believe as I believe, but in my new way of thinking, that is okay. I really don’t care what others think. Are you happy? Are you at peace? Are you living a good, productive life? Do you enjoy life? Yes, to these questions is good enough for me.
I have six children, three who are out on their own. For many years I was the spiritual patriarch of the family. Everyone looked to me for the answers. I feel somewhat burdened over my children. I feel like I have left them out on their own with no protection. But, I know they have good minds and can think and reason for themselves. Whatever they decide about God, religion, politics, or American League baseball is fine with me.
All I ask of my wife and children is that they allow me the freedom to be myself, that they allow me to journey on in peace and love. Of course, I still love a rousing discussion about religion, the Bible, politics, etc. I want my family to know that they can talk to me about these things, and anything else for that matter, any time they wish.
Opinions are welcome. Debate is good. All done? Let’s go to the tavern and have a round on me. Life is about the journey, and I want my wife and children to be a part of my journey and I want to be a part of theirs.
The sentiment I expressed in 2009, still holds today.
Training children as someone would train a dog robs them of their ability to reason and think for themselves. This is why preachers such as Domelle tell parents to send their children to a CHRISTIAN school or home school them, and when they graduate from high school it’s off to a CHRISTIAN college. From birth to graduation from college, church children are indoctrinated, taught to only view the world through the distorted lens of Evangelical Christianity. And if these Christians color outside of the lines? As with disobedient dogs, they are punished. For many children, this punishment is enough to make them heel, but for others, they rebel. They tire of being told what to believe, what to think, or how to live. Once free of their leashes or stakes in their parents’ backyard, they run until they can no longer see from whence they came. While this new-found freedom is dangerous and fraught with difficulty, they have no intention of returning to lives defined by commands and obedience.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
To deny Heaven is to deny Jesus and that robs Christians of hope it is thievery it robs joy and it is slander because You call GOD a liar. One would have to wonder why would you fight so hard against something you don’t believe in ? And what gives you the right to tell others how they should believe ? It would be nice to be as smart as you think you are .Psalm 14-1 Roman’s 14 – 11 and 12 it is far better to do it now .
Why are Evangelicals so easily offended by my writing, thinking that I am directly and pointedly (and individually) writing about them? Instead of seeing my writing as a critique of Evangelical Christianity — its doctrines, practices, and influence on our society — many believers take my words as a personal affront or attack.
Why is it Evangelical churches, preachers, websites, blogs, and podcasts can rail against other religions, atheists, humanists, liberals, Democrats, abortion, LBGTQ people, etc., ad nauseam day and night, yet if non-believers dare challenge their assertions, Evangelicals take it personally? Why are there so many butthurt Evangelicals in the world, people easily offended by anything that disagrees with their worldview?
Evangelicals are fond of sharing their personal testimonies of salvation, deliverance, and new life in Christ. Yet, according to Evangelicals, skeptics, rationalists, atheists, agnostics, and humanists shouldn’t do the same. Why is that?
Here’s what I think . . . Evangelicals know the power of a good story. They know that people like myself telling our stories can and do lead people away from the One True Faith®. I have long said that I am one man with a story to tell. The foundation of this site is the trajectory of my life from an Evangelical pastor to an atheist. My goal has never been to evangelize for atheism. That scores of people have found my writing helpful in their journey away from Evangelicalism is not my fault (not that there is fault to be had). I write, tell my story, people read, and respond accordingly. In a free society, shouldn’t all of us be free to tell our stories and share them with whomever we want? My Gawd, Evangelicals go door to door attempting to spread the “good news” of their version of the Christian gospel. Let me tell you what Jesus did for me, and what he can do for you! Why do Evangelicals want atheists to shut up and mind their own business? Why, one would almost think that Evangelicals fear that our stories and critiques of Evangelicalism might quicken the exodus of people out of churches; that our words are, evidently, more powerful than the words of their God and his alleged messengers on earth: pastors, evangelists, and missionaries. Over 300,000 Christian churches dot the American landscape. I live within 25 miles of almost 300 churches. Evangelical Christianity dominates every aspect of local life. Yet, people like myself are viewed as a threat to Christianity. Really? I mean, really?
I would contend that the greatest threat to Evangelical Christianity is Evangelicals themselves. Eighty-two percent of white Evangelicals voted for Donald Trump in 2016 and 2020. An increasing number of Evangelicals have embraced conspiracy theories. Some are QAnon supporters or members of groups who advocate the overthrow of the United States government. Evangelicals are front and center in the culture war. Who are the people primarily behind attempts to criminalize abortion? Who are the people primarily behind attempts to demonize LGBTQ people and end same-sex marriage? Who are the people behind attempts to roll back social progress to the “good” old days of the 1950s? Evangelicals (and Mormons and conservative Roman Catholics). If Evangelicals want to see the greatest threat to the future of their religion, they need only look in the mirror.
The preacher who commented thinks that by me publicly denying the existence of Heaven, I am robbing Evangelicals of joy and hope. How is that possible? Evangelicals believe that they are indwelt by God, the Holy Spirit. He is their ever-present teacher and guide. He literally walks with them, talks with them, and tells them they are his own. Further, Evangelicals have the Bible, the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God that gives to them everything they need for life and godliness. Sunday after Sunday, millions and millions of Evangelicals gather together in houses of worship to sing praises to God, hear preaching from the Bible, and fellowship with like-minded people. Many of them attend services throughout the week, keeping their proverbial spiritual gas tanks filled. Yet, despite all this indoctrination and reinforcement, little ole atheist Bruce Gerencser is robbing some Evangelicals of their joy and hope. What does that say about God’s power if I can so easily rob Evangelicals of the fruit of the Spirit? Maybe I really am Bruce Almighty. 🙂
Let me address two claims the preacher makes in his comment:
Why do I fight so hard against things I don’t believe in?
What right do I have to tell others what to believe?
First, beliefs have consequences. That’s why I critique Evangelical beliefs and practices. If Evangelicals weren’t trying to take America back for God and force people to live according to their peculiar interpretations of the Bible, I might turn my attention to fighting against the designated hitter in Major League Baseball. However, Evangelical beliefs are causing harm to people, both believers and unbelievers alike. I am a father to six children, and grandfather to thirteen children. My time on earth is short, but my grandchildren could live for 60-80 more years. Their future matters to me. I see Evangelicalism as a threat to their present and future wellbeing. Look at the primary religious group behind the anti-vax movement and the January 6, 2021 insurrection. Liberal, progressive Christians aren’t the problem, Evangelicals are. Look at the nutjobs who control state governments and have ascended to the highest offices in our land. What are their religious beliefs? Primarily Evangelical, and to a lesser degree conservative Catholicism.
As long as this so, I intend to fight (and write). When this preacher and his fellow Evangelicals recant their theocratic ambitions and stop demonizing everyone different from the way they are, I might start writing about Lionel Trains, baseball, and kinky sex. Until then, I will continue to critique and challenge Evangelical beliefs. If Evangelicals continue to take my critiques personally, I suggest they ask themselves WHY they find my words so upsetting?
Second, I don’t tell anyone what to believe — ever. [Can any Evangelical preacher say the same?] You will look in vain on this site for a post that tells anyone what they must believe. Evangelicals are free to believe whatever they want. However, when Evangelicals drag those beliefs into the public square, they shouldn’t be surprised when non-believers challenge their assertions.
Finally, as Evangelical preachers are wont to do, this preacher ends his comment with insults, insulting my intelligence and calling me a fool. (To which the preacher will say, I didn’t call you a fool, GOD did!) I will spend the rest of the night all butthurt over an Evangelical preacher insulting me. 🙂 At least he didn’t tell me I am going to burn in Hell after I die. 🙂
I should note in passing that this preacher is commenting on a post about Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastor and evangelist C.T. Townsend. What is it with the friends and followers of Townsend that makes them so easily offended? Doesn’t the Bible say that those who love God and keep his laws shouldn’t be offended?
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
James Melton is the pastor of Bible Baptist Church, an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church in Sharon, Tennessee. The Christian Nightmares website made me aware of a tract written by Melton titled Safe Sex. Melton, because he can read and understand the King James Version of the Bible, considers himself a “sexpert.” According to Melton, “No one is more qualified to speak on the subject of safe sex than God Himself.”
Really? What does God really know about sex or “safe” sex? Only the second person in the Trinity, Jesus, was human, so only he could have had sex. Did Jesus, an unmarried man, have sex? I am sure that Melton would say, ABSOLUTELY NOT! We do have the curious case of the Holy Spirit, a Ghost, an incorporeal entity, impregnating a virgin by the name of Mary. According to the Bible, this is the only reference to any part of the Godhead having sex. And even here, did not the Holy Spirit commit fornication, having sex with a woman he was not married to? (As one commenter said, the Holy Spirit actually raped Mary, having sex with her without her consent.)
Melton likens having sex to buying a gun:
Picture, if you will, a man who purchases a gun. By law, this man has done nothing wrong in purchasing a gun. He is allowed to have a gun, and he is allowed to shoot the gun as long as he does so in a safe manner. However, he is not allowed to harm anyone with the gun or even threaten to do so. If he does, then he has abused his free privilege, and he will be punished. Rather than use the gun for legal purposes, he chooses to use it illegally, so he must pay for his crime. Even if the judicial system fails to punish him, people with common sense still know that he is a criminal and he deserves to be punished.
Sex works the same way. There is nothing wrong with a person enjoying sexual activity. God made us to desire sexual gratification, and He doesn’t frown upon us when we fulfill this desire His way, according to His word. However, when we ignore God’s laws and practice our own sexual preferences, we become criminals in God’s sight, and punishment will surely follow. Even when the sexperts say, “Use protection and you’ll be okay,” God never said it, and you will not be protected from His wrath. “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” (Gal. 6:7)
Let’s see, why am I permitted to purchase and own a gun? State and Federal law determine whether I am permitted to buy and own a firearm. If I do not meet the criteria, then it is not legal for me to purchase and own a gun. Now imagine if I went to the gun store and the dealer, as he was explaining to me what the law said about firearm purchase and ownership, he opened up a King James Bible and said, right here in God’s Holy Word it says __________________. Does the Bible have any authority when it comes to purchasing and owning a gun? As Pastor Melton, hypothetically said earlier, ABSOLUTELY NOT!
Melton does the equivalent when he interjects the Bible into a discussion about sex. State and Federal law determine who may legally have sex. We rightly protect children from having sex and we punish adults who manipulate teenagers so they will have sex with the former. We have ages of consent and sexual assault and rape laws. At one time, we had laws criminalizing adultery, fornication, and sodomy. While some states still have these laws on their books, thanks to the Courts, such laws are not enforceable. While Melton is free to believe and practice the moral strictures of the Bible, and through strong-arm preaching get others to also do so, the Bible is no authority when it comes to sex. No one can be criminally punished or imprisoned for disobeying what the Bible says about sex.
Melton has harsh words for those who cohabit without being married:
…This is just a sinful grown-up way of “playing house.” A couple who lives together without marriage is a couple who has become habitual and irresponsible fornicators. She thinks he’s a wonderful man, yet he’s such a coward he can’t even ask her to be his wife. He thinks she’s a fine lady, yet she’s nothing more than a cheap prostitute who allows herself to be used for his sexual gratification in exchange for what seems to be a stable and secure home life. This make-believe game may fool people, but it doesn’t fool God. This is a sin, and it will be punished! God didn’t change His law just because someone started acting like married people. Either you are married or you are not married. If you are not married, yet you have sexual relations, then you are a wicked fornicator…
I am shocked by Melton’s liberal, Bible-denying view. While he calls a sexually active, cohabiting, unmarried woman a cheap prostitute and the couple, wicked fornicators, he doesn’t use the word whoremonger one time. So disappointed.
IFB preachers like Melton are fighting a losing battle when it comes to sex. Far stronger than the Holy Spirit or the outrage of the preacher is the human desire for sexual intimacy. While there are certainly many good reasons for waiting to have sex, the fact is, most people don’t. Rather than shaming people for indulging their sexual desire, Melton’s church would be better served if he taught them how to responsibly handle their sexuality. Instead of threatening punishment from God for any sexual activity outside of heterosexual marriage, wouldn’t it be better to educate teenagers and young adults about birth control, sexually transmitted diseases, and when it is “right” to have sex? Instead, Melton preaches the Puritanical IFB gospel of NO!
I get it, it IS in the Bible, but we are thousands of years removed from the writing of the Bible. It is NOT a timeless book of absolute moral instruction. Take, for example, masturbation. Many IFB preachers still preach against masturbation. It’s considered fornication with self. How boring, eh? We now know that masturbation is a good way to release sexual tension. It won’t make you blind nor will it make you sterile. Imagine how relieved the purity-ring-wearing teens in Baptist youth groups would be if they hear their pastors compassionately and honestly tell them that it is normal and healthy to masturbate. No shame, no guilt; just a wonderful THANK YOU JESUS release of sexual tension.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Transphobic: having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people.
The short answer to this question is yes. I am sixty-four years old. My upbringing, political identification, and my Fundamentalist religious beliefs all led to me adopting transphobic, homophobic, and racist ideas. To some degree, I was a product of my time. But I refuse to dismiss my past beliefs with a wave of the hand, saying, hey, it was the 60s and 70s. I can point to my parents and how they raised me, religious indoctrination, and social conditioning as mitigating factors, but I still must own the fact that I was not a good person when it came to what I believed about LGBTQ people. What I am today bears little resemblance to what I was as an Evangelical pastor. If there is anything redemptive in my story it is this: true moral and ethical change is possible. Yes, change is hard, and all of us are resistant to making fundamental changes in our beliefs and practices. But just because change is hard doesn’t mean it is impossible.
I spent much of my life as someone who was:
Born again Fundamentalist Christian
Bible Literalist
Patriarchal
Republican
Christian Nationalist
Pro-Life
Homophobic
Transphobic
Racist
Pro-War
Detroit Tigers fan
Green Bay Packers fan
Today, I am:
An Agnostic Atheist
Egalitarian
Democratic Socialist
Pacifist
Pro-Choice
Pro-LGBTQ
Cincinnati Reds fan
Cincinnati Bengals fan
Family, friends, colleagues in the ministry, and former church members who knew me in the 70s, 80s, and 90s are often shocked by what I have become. How is it possible that Pastor Bruce Gerencser, a defender of True Christianity®, Bible Truth, Christian Nationalism, and the Culture War, is now a Bible-denying Atheist, an Anti-War, Liberal, Commie, Socialist? How can these things be?
My beliefs began to change in the 1990s, first when I stood against the first Iraq War, and later when I publicly rebuked notable Evangelical culture warriors (those who followed in the steps of Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority) for abandoning the gospel for the sake of raw political power. In 2000, I left the Republican Party, voting for my first Democratic candidate for president. It would be eight more years before I left Christianity and embraced atheism.
Clearing my mind of transphobia was a long, slow process. Earlier this year, I wrote a post titled Meeting My First Gay Person. Here’s an excerpt from this post:
As a card-carrying-member of the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement, I often preached sermons condemning homosexuality. According to my infallible interpretation, the Bible condemned homosexual sex. Being the faithful Bible preacher that I was, I thought it important to preach against man-with-man, woman-with-woman sex. Never mind the fact that I did not personally know anyone who was gay. Well, I had my suspicions about several people — Polly’s late uncle comes to mind — but as far as actually knowing someone who was gay? Not one. I would learn years later that several of the students in our Christian school were gay or bisexual. Consider this statistic. I was a raging homophobe who railed against homosexuality and sexual “sin” in general. Yet, one-third of the students in our school were either gay or bisexual. Add to that the students who likely engaged in premarital sex, and I think I can safely say my preaching did little to change hearts and minds on sexual identity and activity.
In March of 1994, I left a church I had pastored for almost twelve years and moved to San Antonio, Texas to co-pastor Community Baptist Church. This move proved to be a disaster, and in the fall that same year, we packed up our belongings and moved to Frazeysburg, Ohio. With the help of Polly’s parents, we bought a newish manufactured home — a $25,000 upgrade from our previous mobile home.
We lived in Frazeysburg for six months. Needing immediate employment, I turned to restaurant management. I was hired by Charley’s Steakery (now called Charleys Philly Steaks) to be the general manager of their franchise at the Colony Square Mall in Zanesville. I continued to work for this restaurant until March 1995, when I assumed the pastorate of Olive Branch Christian Union Church in Fayette.
The restaurant I managed had a drink refill policy for mall employees. If employees stopped at the restaurant with their cups, we refilled them free of charge. Some employees would stop every day they worked to get their large plastic cups refilled. One such employee was a man who worked at a nearby store.
This man was in his twenties. The first time I personally refilled his cup for him, my infallible, never-wrong (I am joking) gaydar went off. I thought, “OMG, this guy is gay. What if he has AIDS?” Quite frankly, I am surprised he didn’t see the disgust on my face. Maybe he did, but ignored it. I dutifully put ice in his cup, filled it with pop, and handed it back to him. After he walked away from the service counter, I would quickly run to the kitchen and thoroughly wash my hands, fearing that I might catch AIDS.
Over time, this man and I struck up casual conversations. He was quite friendly, and truth be told, I liked talking to him. As I got to know him better, I found that I no longer was disgusted or worried about getting AIDS. I even stopped washing my hands after serving him. What changed?
My theology didn’t change. And neither did my irrational fear of gay people. Coming to where I am today, a supporter of LGBTQ rights with numerous gay and transgender friends, took years. What needed washing was my proverbial heart, not my hands.
I spent much of my life in a political, theological, and social bubble. Sure, I was a kind, thoughtful, loving man, but make no mistake about it, if asked what I believed about LGBTQ (for a time I refused to use the word gay) people, I would turn into a smiling, hateful bigot.
It was not until I began leaving the Evangelical bubble that I was able to see a world outside of my own. The Internet opened up a whole new universe to me, forcing me to confront and deal with my deep-seated prejudices. And then came this blog (in all its iterations), a wide-open door to a wild, wooly world. I now have LGBTQ friends, but more importantly, meeting people different from me has forced me to come to terms with how I viewed them. Again, actually meeting, knowing, and befriending transgender people changed how I viewed them. I can’t emphasize this enough. Exposure to people different from us is the first step in rooting out hatred and bigotry from our lives.
I am not one who says that I am free of all past prejudices. I am not. A lifetime of indoctrination and conditioning is not easily overcome. All I know to do is try to be a better person today than I was yesterday.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Dan Beecher, an ex-Mormon and atheist podcaster, described Mormonism as “high intensity church” — religious practice that takes up an inordinate amount of your time and money. This is a good description of my experience attending and pastoring Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) churches. High intensity, indeed.
IFB pastors expect congregants to be all-in. Anything less and you will be labeled as a backslider, carnal, or “worldly.” Church members are expected to attend church every time the doors are open:
Sunday School
Sunday morning service
Sunday evening service
Midweek service
True Christians® are expected to:
Read and study the Bible every day
Pray multiple times a day
Daily witness to non-Christians
Further, congregants are expected to
Give 10% of their income to the church
Give money above the tithe to the bulding fund, missions, revival offerings, etc.
According to IFB preachers, every church member should find a ministry in which to serve. Some ministries require hours of personal time each week. Put all these things together, and what you have is a good example of “high intensity church.” Throw in listening to sermons on cassette tapes or digital media, reading Christian books, listening to Christian music, and buying Jesus junk at Hobby Lobby, and it’s hard not to conclude that many IFB pastors and church members spend virtually every waking hour serving “Jesus.” Even when taking time out for rest, relaxation, or entertainment, Jesus is lurking in the shadows.
Live long enough in such a religious environment and one can lose all sense of self and proportion. Promised mansions in Heaven after they die, IFB Christians sacrifice the present in hope of some sort of divine payoff later. That’s why many former IFB church members think they “wasted” much of their lives “serving” God/Jesus/Church. What do they have to show for giving their time, talent, and money to their churches? Wasted years that can never be regained.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
(Message I Received From an Evangelical Christian. He misquoted Acts 16:31, leaving out “and thy house” at the end. I wonder why? How dare he corrupt the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God.) 🙂
This was “Attack Bruce” day. I received two separate messages on Facebook today threatening me with Hell. In addition, an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist man named Victor Justice — who likely used a fake name and email address — left the following comment on my recent repost titled Domestic Violence in the IFB Church Movement. My response is indented and italicized.
That’s sad. If Steve was a good friend of yours, unfortunately he’s very likely in the literal Fires of Hell now, and for all eternity, little Bruce.
Victor Justice (VJ) is referring to a comment I left about my good friend Steve Gupton on the domestic violence post. Steve had left a comment on the post in 2015. As is common with reposts, someone responded to him after I reposted the article. I let them know that Steve couldn’t respond because he was dead. (Please see The Suddenness of Death.)
If Hell is my eternal destiny, I can’t of better company than Steve Gupton. Who would I rather enjoy eternal torture and torment with? Steve? Or a nasty, vile son of a bitch like VJ? That’s a rhetorical question, by the way.
With your health problems, you’ll soon be joining him.
VJ goes straight for the jugular — classic IFB behavior. Yes, I have health problems. Yes, it is not likely that I will make it to age seventy. Every day is a struggle for me. I want to live as long as I possibly can, but I know that I am on the short side of life. VJ knows this and attempts to use it as a bludgeon to cause psychological harm. Again, typical IFB behavior.
You see, Almighty GOD is never mocked, never. Just because you decided to stop pretending to be a Bible believing, pastor, and play a victim instead, the fact remains that you will have to make full payment for your filthy sins.
First, there is no God, so there is no “God” to mock. Fundamentalist religion is my target, not a mythical deity.
Second, I was a sincere follower of Jesus.
Third, I AM a victim — of psychological harm caused by a lifetime of involvement with the IFB church movement.
Fourth, I am sixty-four years old. Not once in my life have I ever written a email/comment such as the one I received from VJ. His comment violated numerous Biblical teachings and commands. If anyone is a filthy sinner, it is VJ.
I believe that your suffering will be something utterly beyond human comprehension. I know of no other human being, past or present, that will face what you will…at The Judgment!
With all the monumental evil you’ve perpetrated on the LORD Jesus Christ and His Church. He would still be willing to forgive you! What an amazingly Good and Gracious Savior He is!
I am one man with a story to tell; one man with a blog; one man whose writing will never be read by 99.99% of the human race. Yet, I am evil personified, worse than Hitler. I have “perpetuated monumental evil” against the dead LORD Jesus Christ and the IFB church movement. Really? I mean, really? Sure, I am well known in some corners of the IFB world. Fourteen years and millions of page views will do that for you. I suppose I am even well known in some corners of the Evangelical world. That said, I don’t have a Wikipedia page, have never been on Atheist Experience, or written a book. I am not a famous (or infamous) person. I do, however, live in the heads of many IFB preachers.
In VJ’s addled brain, I am a tool of Satan, one who has led countless people astray; someone who is causing harm to IFB churches, pastors, and colleges. Pffft. I don’t lead anyone anywhere. I write, people read, and decide accordingly. Has my writing played a part in people leaving Christianity? Sure. But, no one left kicking and screaming with me pulling them into the flames of a mythical Hell. Am I an enemy of the IFB church movement? Absolutely. Proudly so. It will be a good day when the movement dies. So much harm is caused by IFB churches and pastors. So much pain and trauma. I make no apology for trying to smother the life out of what is arguably one of the most harmful sects in America. One need only read VJ’s comment to see how much harm the IFB church movement causes. Look at what kind of man it has turned VJ into. I genuinely feel sorry for him.
Steve’s time has run out. Your time is ticking away. Put away your filthy pride, get down on your face and beg Jesus Christ Almighty for forgiveness!
Most sincerely,
Victor Justice
Shit, get down on my face? I can’t even get on my knees. 🙂 I plan on dying with the courage of my convictions. I see no evidence for the existence of the God of the Bible. I no longer believe the central claims of Christianity are true. I am convinced that what awaits me after death is the flames of a crematory and a brief baptism in the waters of Lake Michigan before sinking to the bottom of the lake. What will live on is my good works and the memories others have of, I hope, of a life well-lived.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I recently discovered a podcast called Here Be Monsters. I was trying to find a funny story I had heard a couple of years ago on public radio. The story involved someone dressing up as a Sasquatch and a dog called Motley Crüe Jon Bon Jovi. It’s an entertaining story that you can find here.
I really enjoyed re-hearing the story and thought there might be some other stories I’d enjoy, so I started listening to random episodes. I enjoyed some, while others didn’t really catch my interest. But the presentations were excellent and I loved the audio quality. The sounds are very crisp and the music is relaxing.
In the story, they talk about the Hale-Bopp comet. For those who don’t remember, or who weren’t born then, Hale-Bopp was a new comet that was bright enough to be seen with the naked eye, and it was visible for 18 months. This was during 1996-1997. The Heaven’s Gate cult thought a spacecraft was following the comet and most of them committed suicide, thinking that was the way to leave their bodies behind and join the spacecraft.
Eighteen months is a long time to be able to see a comet, but I never saw it, because I didn’t know about it. The only time it came into my small world view was when the members of Heaven’s Gate committed suicide. You see, at that time, my family didn’t have a TV, get the newspaper or listen to the news on the radio. The only time I heard news was when something big happened. Usually, the pastor would mention something he heard about on the news, or another member of the congregation, who had a TV, would say something, and then it was always filtered through the lens of Calvinistic philosophy. The big news stories were always talked about with the smug assurance that God had ordained everything that happens and that sinners were always getting their just rewards. I look back and find that disgusting. There was no compassion and no understanding, just black and white judgment. Heaven’s Gate was mentioned because they were “lunatics” who were preordained to this fate and further proof that we were the only ones with the true gospel. What I have come to realize over the years is that I missed out on so much news, which becomes information, from my mid-teens through my mid-30’s. Admittedly, a lot of the news was bad, but it was news. All of it was information that I could have learned from. I might have made better choices in my life, if I had more knowledge of the world around me. I watch Netflix documentaries now, and I can’t believe all that passed me by. Granted, I have lived my whole life in Alaska, so many national news stories didn’t always make big headlines here, but the stories were there. I just had no clue. Sometimes, when I discover a missed story, I feel like an explorer finding a new ocean or mountain. I’ll be amazed that this huge thing was here, and I just now found it.
And, the little bit of news I did follow was always looked at through a very critical lens. All news had to fit into my church’s narrow view of the world. Waco, Ruby Ridge, Elian Gonzalez, these were huge things talked about in my church, but the focus was always on the wrong thing. We feared the government because we thought they were going to put us all into concentration camps due to our beliefs. Maybe too many of us had watched the A Thief in the Night series, because we were all describing the kinds of scenarios shown in the films. The bigger picture was that ego and bad decisions ruled the day in these tragedies. The government didn’t care what we believed; the church I attended then still exists, although it has moved locations and is much smaller. In the early and mid-90’s though, we were sure Janet Reno had her personal eye on each of us.
By downplaying the news and filtering what we did know, the church was able to keep us uneducated. If I’m uneducated, how can I know to question anything? I felt stupid, because I would get to work, and people would be talking about things that I had no clue about. (For the younger generation, the Internet was in its infancy in this time. I couldn’t just Google it.) And, by constantly bashing the government and “taking a stand,” how many churches brought unnecessary federal, state, and local attention to themselves? If you complain the government hates you long enough, you’ll become a self-fulfilling prophecy. So many IFB/Calvinistic/Southern Baptist-type churches get by right now by just being quiet. The federal government knows they don’t follow all the rules, they know tax evasion is going on, they know church board members use offerings as their own personal incomes, etc. The government just doesn’t care. It has too many other things to worry about, until they become something to worry about. Meanwhile, church members are being fed the story the pastor wants them to hear and never question anything.
Because of the church, I had warped views of events that happened, and it has taken years of looking into things for myself to figure out what the real tragedy in the stories was. Because of the church, I missed an 18-month chance to see a historic comet. a comet that will be forever linked, in my mind, to tragedy and not to how cool it would have been to see with my naked eye. Because I missed so much, I made sure I talked about current events with my kids, even when I was still a believer. I don’t want them to turn 40 and find out about a major event that they missed while watching Netflix.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Let me begin by giving readers the definition of domestic violence. The National Domestic Violence Hotline defines domestic violence as follows:
Domestic violence can be defined as a pattern of behavior in any relationship that is used to gain or maintain power and control over an intimate partner.
Abuse is physical, sexual, emotional, economic or psychological actions or threats of actions that influence another person. This includes any behaviors that frighten, intimidate, terrorize, manipulate, hurt, humiliate, blame, injure or wound someone.
Domestic violence can happen to anyone of any race, age, sexual orientation, religion or gender. It can happen to couples who are married, living together or who are dating. Domestic violence affects people of all socioeconomic backgrounds and education levels.
Does the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement have a domestic abuse problem? The short answer is Yes!
The IFB church movement is built on a foundation of psychological manipulation and abuse. This is seen in how parents discipline their children and how husbands lord over and control their wives. These behaviors are often modeled by IFB pastors, deacons, and church leaders as they manipulate, control, and dominate church members.
I know IFB readers of this blog are howling over what I have written here. How dare I suggest that the IFB church movement has an abuse problem. How dare I suggest IFB pastors and church leaders emotionally and mentally manipulate and control people. Child abuse? Domestic violence? Where do such things happen? says the IFB church member. I have never seen it.
And therein lies the problem. The abuse and violence are institutionalized to such a degree that it is considered normal. People are so used to seeing it that they never consider whether such behavior is appropriate. IFB church members are familiar with having their “toes stepped on.” They are accustomed to fire-and-brimstone, naming-names, calling-sin-“sin,” sermons. They are used to aggressive behavior from their pastors. It seems quite “normal” to them. Those of us who were raised in the IFB church movement understand this. It took us getting away from it to see how manipulative and abusive our churches, pastors, and families really were. The waiting rooms of mental health professionals are crowded with people whose mental wellness and self-esteem were ruined by Fundamentalism.
For those of us who spent decades in the IFB church, we know that the deep psychological scars left by our time in the IFB church will never go away. We learn to come to terms with our past and try to do the best we can going forward. We are marred, even broken, yet somehow, we find a way to pick up and move forward.
This is why some of us speak so openly about the IFB church movement and its manipulative and abusive tendencies. We don’t want ANYONE to experience what we experienced. When we see someone gravitating towards Fundamentalism we try to warn them as we would warn a person who is driving towards a cliff. Stop! Turn around! Sadly, many people ignore these warnings and often pay a heavy price, emotionally, mentally, and sometimes physically, as a result.
Domestic violence in the IFB church movement is widespread. Unfortunately, it is often not seen as domestic violence by those who are devoted church members. Instead, the use of domestic violence is often seen as being “true to the Bible” or being “a faithful follower of Jesus.” To understand this, we must first understand the theological underpinnings of such violence. Domestic violence often happens because husbands (it is almost always husbands who perpetrate domestic violence in the IFB church) want to be obedient to the Bible, Jesus, and the pastors’ dictates. Remember, in the IFB church, the voice of God sounds an awful lot like the voice of the Pastor.
Here is what many IFB pastors preach to their church members:
Christ is the head of the church and pastors are ordained by God to lead (and control) their churches.
The Bible is an inspired, inerrant, infallible text that should be interpreted literally and explicitly obeyed.
Husbands are the head of their homes.
Wives are to submit to their husbands.
The highest calling for women is to bear children and to be a keeper of the home. Many IFB pastors discourage women from working outside the home or getting college educations (unless they go to an IFB college to get an MRS degree).
Husbands are the authorities, disciplinarians, and the kings of their homes. God holds them, like he did Adam, responsible for everything that goes on in their homes.
The Bible sanctions using violence when children disobey. If parents don’t spank, whip, or beat their children, it means they are not willing to obey the teachings of the Pastor and the Bible. The rod of correction is meant to be used to drive wickedness out of the hearts of children.
Now, none of these things necessarily lead to domestic abuse. However, add to this the IFB church’s preoccupation with sin and the portrayal of God as a violent deity who will whip them if they disobey, and you have a recipe for not only domestic abuse but also child abuse. I have watched more than a few IFB church members and pastors beat the living hell out of their children with a belt, switch, or paddle. I remember hearing of one parent who picked up a 2×4 and beat his two teenage girls with it. Why? The teens deliberately disobeyed him by riding the church bus home instead of going home with him.
I have admitted my own violent, abusive methods of correcting my three oldest children. Fortunately, I abandoned these practices with my three youngest children. My oldest sons routinely got thrashed for disobeying their parents. I corrected them this way because I thought that is what God wanted me to do. The books I read said this was the proper way to discipline children, and every big-name preacher I heard preach said I was doing right by my kids when I whipped them. Is it any surprise then, with Bible-sanctioned brutality against children and a violent God who uses violence to chastise disobedient IFB church members, that violent behavior spills over into the relationships between husbands and their “submissive” wives?
I can’t say that I know of more than a few instances where IFB husbands physically beat their wives. I know of a few pastors’ wives who were physically abused by their pastor husbands. The pastors were men of God in the pulpit, but at home they were violent disciplinarians who ruled over their wives and children with a rod of iron. Most of the abuse I saw was more of the mental and emotional type. If their wives weren’t submissive enough or didn’t put out sexually, they would pay for it. If they dared to have ambition, wanted to work outside the home, or go to college, these “rebellious” wives would be brought to heel, reminded of God’s divine order for the home.
I have often said, I don’t know how ANY woman stays in the IFB church. Well, I do know. Women are afraid. They fear disobeying God, their husbands, and their pastors. They fear God will chastise them if they dare step outside the role God has allegedly ordained for them. And so they stay and suffer the abuse.
Again, theology plays a big part in this. Many IFB pastors think that there are no grounds for divorce or that the only ground for divorce is adultery. Having a husband who is abusive, especially if it is emotional or mental abuse, is not grounds for divorce.
Let me give an illustration of how this is perpetuated from the pulpit:
Years ago the church I was pastoring joined together with other IFB churches to hold a joint revival meeting. The speaker was Bill Rice III. (I am almost certain it was Bill Rice but it could have been Pete Rice, both were associated with the Bill Rice Ranch.) One night, Bill Rice preached on the subject of marriage and divorce. Rice did not believe there were any grounds for divorce. He said that even if a husband was beating on his wife, the wife should stay in the marriage. Perhaps she would win her husband to Jesus by her willingness to stay in the marriage. Rice intimated that saved husbands don’t beat their wives.
By the time of this meeting my views had already begun to change and I pulled our church out of the meetings. I was incensed that Rice was advocating a woman endure her husband beating on her, implying that God wanted her to do so.
As my wife and I traveled beyond the IFB church movement, we had to relearn what it meant to have a healthy marriage and family relationship. Ultimately, it took getting away from Christianity altogether for us to find wholeness.
I am not suggesting that every husband in the IFB church movement is abusive or that every father abuses his children when he disciplines them. I am suggesting that IFB theology encourages manipulation, violence, and abuse. Personally, I don’t think the IFB church movement is good for anyone. The extreme Fundamentalism found in the movement is psychologically harmful and people are better off finding other Christians sects to be a part of; sects that don’t view women as inferior, and don’t see children as chattel. I am of the opinion that the best thing that can happen to the IFB church movement is that it dies a quick death. It is dying, but it is dying slowly. I am all for smothering the movement in its bed.
Over the years, I have watched a number of women break free from domestic violence. They decided their own personal self-worth and happiness were more important than supposed obedience to God, the Bible, the pastor, and their husbands. Most often, gaining their freedom required them to divorce their husbands.
Let me head off those who might suggest that the reason there is domestic abuse and child abuse in the IFB church movement is that they misinterpret the Bible. I don’t think this is the case at all. Sadly. abusers are being consistent with their beliefs and literal readings of the Bible. After all, the Bible does command fathers to beat their children with rods. The Bible does command wives to be submissive to their husbands and be keepers of their homes. And let’s face it, the Bible is a written record of the violence God pours out and will yet pour out on all those who do not worship or obey him. The good news is that many Christians ignore or explain away vast parts of the Bible. They know beating children is wrong. They know demanding a wife submit to her husband is demeaning. They wisely reject such things.
Do you have a story to tell about domestic violence? What did you experience growing up in the IFB church? What went on in your IFB home when the doors were closed? Please share your thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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