Excerpt from The Question Every Christian Must Answer, by Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen. The grantor of Thiessen’s alleged doctorate is unknown. Make of that what you will. Regardless, Thiessen views himself as an expert on the Bible, history, science, archeology, LGBTQ issues, and why I’m no longer a Christian. Doubt me? Just ask him.
If science is pursued correctly and honestly, then science agrees with the Bible. What turns young minds away from biblical truths are the theories, opinions, and conclusions that are generated from unbelieving scientists.
It is their assumptions, leaps to conclusions, conjectures, and hypotheses that say the Bible is wrong, not true scientific exploration or facts. Once believers understand this truth, then holding on to their faith in the face of the onslaught from secular science becomes much easier.
It is their assumptions, leaps to conclusions, conjectures, and hypotheses that say the Bible is wrong, not true scientific exploration or facts.
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When Christians take unbelieving or secular science over God’s words, then they are not exercising faith.
Instead, they are rejecting what God has said in favor of what unbelievers have claimed to be true. This is not just doubt but clear rejection of God’s words. Since God cannot lie, then we can take his word over what unbelieving scientists, archaeologists, anthropologists, and other unbelievers claim.
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These institutions need to get back to God and rein in their science teachers/professors and get them to teach the truth, not unbelieving science.
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The Bible is not wrong. It is the unbelieving scientists who are.
Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, recently wrote the following about the nature and construction of the Bible. Thiessen denies human culture had anything to do with the writing of the Bible. He even goes so far as to say that “The Bible’s content is from God’s culture, not a Jewish one.”
Thiessen says he has Bible college education (and a doctorate), yet his writing reveals beliefs that bear little resemblance to Christian orthodoxy. That’s fine, Thiessen can believe whatever he wants, and college educated people can and do believe stupid things. However, Thiessen would be hard pressed to find any of his professors who would agree with what he has written here, or any of his ministerial colleagues who would say, “Fine work, Dr. Tee.”
I have a lot of Evangelical readers, including preachers. Drop a note in the comment section detailing what you think about Thiessen’s claims. Can you square them with the Bible?
This question is related to what our professor said in class one day: ‘You have to understand the culture of that time’ when referring to how the Bible was written. There are two related answers to that question.
The first answer would be that no human culture shaped the Bible. The second answer explains why that is so. The second answer is that God’s culture shaped the biblical content. The Bible is a divinely written book transmitted through inspired authors who happen to be human.
There was no human culture involved in the writing of the Bible. Every word came from God and his culture and what he wanted humans to become. Human culture cannot create instructions enabling and helping other humans to become holy.
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The Bible is not part of Jewish literature. It is part of God’s literature written to provide humans with God’s holy culture so that all people would know how to live in the kingdom of God.
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There is no human culture involved in the writing of the bible. Every word recorded reveals God and what he wants his people to do and live. The Bible is God’s literature whose content reveals what God wants us to know.
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The style of biblical writing does not change or influence the message. The style is just the style that is used to communicate important information. Many scholars, etc., feel that the style of writing changes the message, but it does not.
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The message transcends the style of writing, keeping the Bible a book from a divine culture and not a human one. Once Christians understand this, living the Christian life becomes much easier and less confusing.
Christians know exactly what they are to do and what God wants them to do. This divine culture origin ensures that everyone throughout history has the will of God at their fingertips. They can also avoid the trap this common mistake leads them to.
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The Bible’s content is from God’s culture, not a Jewish one. One could say that if the Jews correctly followed the Bible, they would be living God’s culture, not a Jewish one. The same goes for the NT.
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The NT was not created out of a Jewish culture. It was created out of God’s holy culture.
— end of excerpt —
I have read a lot of theology in my almost 70 years of life, but I’ve never read the above before. How do you answer someone who says “no human culture — including Judaism — wrote the Bible? I can’t think of any way to square this with what we know about the nature and history of the Bible.
I had rules that governed my study of the Bible. If I found myself coming to a conclusion that was not supported by experts in the Biblical text, my interpretation was likely wrong. If Thiessen followed this rule, what would experts be telling him? Of course, he has the Holy Ghost on his side, so he has no need to listen to experts.
When it comes to supernatural or extraordinary claims, I always ask for evidence to justify said claims. When someone makes a religious, historical, political, or science claim, I expect them to justify their claim . People should expect the same from me. I never expect someone to take my word for any substantial claim I make.
Granted, some things don’t matter in life, so evidence is unnecessary. That said, we should want to believe as many true things as possible. When I am confronted with things I know little about, I tend to rely upon and trust experts. I mean real experts; men and women who either have relevant academic training or have committed themselves to an apprentice program where people learn by doing. Both are a path to expertise.
As a religion writer, I frequently interact with Evangelicals who disagree with me — all well and good. I don’t expect anyone to take my word for it, though it would be nice that when they do disagree me, they would interact with me on an academic or evidentiary basis instead of sharing personal testimonies or opinions. Part of the problem is the result of Evangelicals being unable to distinguish between evidence and opinion (personal interpretation). The Bible is a book of claims, not evidence. It makes all sorts of supernatural and extraordinary claims. Just because the Bible makes a claim doesn’t mean it’s true. The truthfulness of a claim requires evidence, which, for the most part, Evangelicals are unable to provide. Proof texts and cross references don’t cut it. Want to convince a skeptic of the veracity of a religious claim? It will take more than quoting Bible verses or following apologetical manipulations of the Biblical text. As you might know, Evangelicals have an explanation for every error, mistake, or contradiction in the Bible. Not good explanations. but they do have them.
Before engaging Evangelicals on this or that claim, I suggest debunking the claim that the Bible is inerrant and infallible first. This is a claim that can be easily debunked in five or so minutes. It only takes one error, mistake, or contradiction to overturn the claim that the Bible is without error. Of course, when you succeed, that doesn’t mean Evangelicals will agree with you. Conditioning and indoctrination keep them from seeing things as they are. When your family, church, and pastors repeatedly make supernatural or extraordinary claims, it is difficult not to believe them, even when evidence is lacking. Why would someone’s family, church, or pastors lie to them? Lost in the discussion is the fact that religious indoctrination and conditioning is often multi-generational. People raised in church tend to embrace the beliefs taught to them by their pastors or other authority figures. In the Gerencser family, four generations of people believed the Bible was inerrant and infallible. I was the first person in the family to ask for evidence for this claim, but none was forthcoming until I stepped outside of the people I trusted. If Evangelicals want me to believe the Bible is the Word of God; that it is without error and true in all it says, they will have to do more than quote proof texts or provide doctrinal statements.
I am not an anti-theist, though there are days when I think I would be better off if I were. That said, I am open to evidence for the central claims of Christianity. It is unlikely that such evidence will be forthcoming, but as a skeptic I am more than willing to have my beliefs challenged. As I stated previously, I want to believe as many true things as possible. Want me to believe Jesus is the son of God, that he was a miracle worker who was executed and came back to life three (or was it two?) days later before he ascended back to Heaven — never to be seen again? Don’t quote me Bible verses. Show me actual evidence for these claims; evidence, as of this date, that is unavailable. I’m not holding my breath.
Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
How odd that a compassionate God uses such a mode … a book … to communicate with his mostly illiterate creation. By odd, I mean ridiculous…not of God but of us to look at a book written in a real human language and think, “Perfect! Obviously God’s word!” A real human language is a constantly evolving thing. Meanings drift. Spellings change. Pronunciation shifts. Metaphors and even definitions lose their intelligibility or gain totally different ones.
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A truly good God would just speak to us … all of us .. whenever we had a question. When someone was misrepresenting his intent, he’d correct them in real-time and discuss why he felt a certain way or gave such an injunction or command or allowed such evil to occur due to some greater good. If he did suffer himself to write a book, it would be self-translating and modify itself to the belief system of the reader, such that it could reveal itself with the clarity and distinctness of raw, uninterpreted sense data. We could still choose to believe or not believe, worship or not worship, follow or not follow, of our own free will, but there would be no disagreement that God was real, and this is what he says about himself and his creation. In fact, this is the only way a good God, a compassionate God, a God who did not revel in billions of blind men, women, and children stumbling in ignorance towards their eternal doom, would act.
We call this “informed consent”. When I have more information and more knowledge, I can make better choices or at least make more informed choices. As I’m writing this now, I am being misinterpreted by every reader at some point in my argument. But anyone need only ask and I’ll clarify…personally. How is it that I, a being so much more limited than God, can do what God never does? I want people to interact with as accurate an interpretation of my ideas as is possible. To do that most effectively, I must know that misunderstandings will happen, and I will try to correct them to the best of my ability. If I am unwilling to clarify even the grossest misunderstandings, I cannot hold someone responsible for failing to understand my intent or my belief.
Unfortunately, we decided at some point that our stories were Truth and that science was a threat because both make claims about the natural world, and often these claims conflict. There is a battle for the future of humanity. If Science wins, we may actually have a future. We will at least face our problems in the here and now and tackle them in a manner up to the task and not colored by theological squeamishness. If Theism wins, then God help us all. My money, as much as it saddens me to say, is on theism stamping out progress. Theism has a long and glorious dalliance with fear and has cultivated its use to high art. And as science has shown, fear is the most motivating of forces.
My contention then is that God is but a sideshow; I highlight the absurdity of a supposedly compassionate God relying on ambiguous scriptures to guide us. Theological —Islamic, Jewish, Christian—stem from the same flawed medium I rail against. A divine presentation would know each reader, communicate, update, and respond. It would’ve spared us centuries of book-burning and observatory-wrecking. Instead, we’re left with human squabbles over divine intent, proving my point: a good God wouldn’t play hide-and-seek with truth. And so we can dispense with the notion.
Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
As an Evangelical pastor and devout student of the Bible, I saw the “alleged” contradictions and errors. I knew there were verses that contradicted with each other in it. When I ran into verses that were antithetical to each other, I typically studied the verse in its original language, read what commentaries said on the verse, and consulted several “Answers to Bible Contradictions” books I owned. Usually, this process would satisfactorily give me what I needed to be sure that what I was reading was straight from God himself. Or so I thought, anyway.
Occasionally, my studies left me more confused than when I started. Was I reading an actual contradiction or error in the Word of God? Surely, this cannot be, I thought. God says the Bible is inspired, inerrant, and infallible. How could the Bible have errors or mistakes if it is inspired, inerrant, and infallible? Talk about a contradiction.
Ultimately, when faced with insurmountable contradictions or errors, I appealed to faith, believing that every word in the Bible was true; trusting that, in time, God would give me understanding about about the alleged textual problems. I implicitly believed that God would one day make all things known to me, and if not in this life, then in the life to come. And if not in eternity? I trusted that God would ALWAYS do what was best for me.
This I believed for almost fifty years. It was not until I learned that the contradictions and errors of the Bible could not be explained away or justified that I began to question what it was I really believed. And once the genie in the bottle was released, there was no going back.
Were you raised in Evangelicalism? Did you ever come upon contractions and errors in the Bible? How did you reconcile them, or did you even try? Please leave your pithy thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
This is the latest installment in The Voices of Atheism series. This is a series that I would like readers to help me with. Know of a good video that espouses atheism/agnosticism or challenges the claims of the Abrahamic religions? Please email me the name of the video or a link to it. I believe this series will be an excellent addition to The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser.
Thank you in advance for your help.
What follows is a video of an interview with Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou, a professor of Hebrew Bible and Ancient Religion at the University of Exeter. The main focus of her research is on the Hebrew Bible, and on Israelite and Judahite history and religion. Her seminal book, God: An Anatomy, is a must read.
Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Evidence for the Bible is everywhere, including outer space. We just have to be willing to look for it in a credible manner that brings glory to God. He does not lie, and the presence of water in Space shows us that God does not lie about biblical events. We know God did it because he told us he did it, and the evidence comes to shore up Christian faith when the time is right. As Christians, we do not need physical evidence. We just need to believe God because he does not lie.
And this is why having a discussion or debate with an Evangelical Christian is usually a waste of time. Discuss and debate if you must, but you won’t win. Why? When shown their beliefs and practices are false, what do Evangelicals do? Do they admit they are wrong? Do they admit you are right? Do they deconvert? Do they admit to having serious questions and doubts about their faith? Of course not, silly boy. When cornered, Evangelicals run to the safety of the house of faith and the inerrancy/infallibility of the Bible. Within the house of faith, all is ordered and well, and the Bible is true. Everything is right in this house. Of course, toking marijuana gives the same result — in my professional opinion. 🙂 It is only when Evangelicals venture outside the house of faith that change is possible. For it is in the world that they will find their beliefs and practices questioned, challenged, and overcome. Over the years, many devout Evangelicals and IFB Christians have stumbled upon this site, only to crawl away beaten and bruised, with more questions than answers.
Is my goal to evangelize for atheism? Nope. I don’t do it — ever. I am just one man with a story to tell. If my writing troubles someone or causes them to question or doubt, that’s on them. If they contact me, I will help them any way I can. I’m content to answer sincere questions and suggest books for people to read. Whatever they do with what they learn is up to them. Do some of them deconvert or move on to what I call “kinder, gentler Christianity?” You bet, and I am glad they did. Some sects of Christianity are more harmful than others. Evangelicalism, the IFB church movement, Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Catholicism come to mind. These sects might be “right” about religion, but they sure cause a lot of harm, both physically and psychologically.
Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
According to Evangelicals, the Bible is the most important book ever written. The Bible, unlike all other books ever written, is a supernatural book written by a supernatural God through human instrumentation. Every word is true, without error or contradiction. The Bible is God’s blueprint for our lives, a roadmap that leads to life eternal. You would think, then, that Evangelicals would read and study the Bible every day, increasing in knowledge and understanding.
Think about it. If there was one book out of the 150,000,000 million or so ever written that told you everything you needed to know about this life and the life to come, you would likely read and study it every day. Nothing would be more important than what God said, right? Why, then, do most Christians rarely, if ever, read the Bible? Evangelicals talk a good line about God, Jesus, and salvation, yet most of them have never read the Bible through once. Most Evangelicals rely solely on what their pastors say from the pulpit or what they read in an apologetics book to define their beliefs.
As a committed follower of Jesus, I read and studied the Bible every day. I read both the Old and New Testaments through from the table of contents to the index many times. I thought it important for a born-again Christian to read, study, and understand the Bible. Yet, most of the Christians I knew, including some pastors, weren’t diligent Bible readers. They knew they ought to, but life got in the way.
I finally concluded that most believers sincerely wanted to read and study the Bible as their pastors did, but they simply didn’t have the time and energy to do so. Long hours of work and domestic obligations severely limited the time they had to devote to the “Word.” I was paid to pray and read the Bible, so, of course, I could leisurely devote myself to reading the Bible. The people I pastored didn’t have the freedom I did. They had to make time in their limited schedules to read the Bible. Sometimes, “life” got in the way of doing so. I know that my partner, Polly, had six children to raise and educate, and a busy husband to care for. When did she have time to read and study the Bible? She tried, but failed, and felt guilty for years over his lack of Bible reading. Years ago, I apologized to her for the blame and guilt I laid at her feet. Polly loves to read, but back in the day, she didn’t have the time to do so, and, quite frankly, she didn’t find the Good Book all that interesting — as I am sure many of you can attest.
That said, we show what we value by what we do. Based on their behavior, it is clear that most Evangelicals really don’t value the teachings of the Bible. They are content to live their lives according to the beliefs and pronouncements of parents, preachers, and teachers. They have what I call “borrowed beliefs/theology.” Rare is the Christian who devotes himself to reading, studying, and understanding the sixty-six books of the Christian Bible.
Are you are former Evangelical? What were your Bible reading habits? Did you read the Bible every day? Every week? Sporadically, if ever? Did you read the Bible from cover to cover at least once? Did you feel guilty when you didn’t read the Bible? Please share your thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Evangelicals love to claim that they are people of the book; that God said it, they believe it …. end of discussion. However, get into a discussion, debate, or argument with an Evangelical and you will quickly learn that he has all sorts of ways to avoid the clear meaning of the Bible.
Colossians 3:12-15 says:
Therefore, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience. Bear with one another and, if anyone has a complaint against another, forgive each other; just as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. . .And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
Who is the Apostle Paul talking to in Colossians 3? God’s chosen ones, those who are holy and beloved. Most scholars agree that Paul is speaking to Christians. Paul sets forth clear commands for followers of Christ:
Clothe yourself with compassion
Clothe yourself with kindness
Clothe yourself with humility
Clothe yourself with meekness
Clothe yourself with patience
Bear with one another
Forgive one another (you must forgive as Christ has forgiven you)
Above everything, clothe yourself with love (which binds everything together)
Let the peace of God rule your heart
Do these verses reflect how Evangelicals behave on this site? I think not. The Bible commands Christians to judge people by the fruit they produce. Based on my experiences with Evangelicals, all I see are rotting, worm-filled apples, with a few edible apples at the bottom of the bushel basket. And as sure as the sun comes up in the morning, Evangelical zealots will object to my exegesis. Fine, then by all means tell me how I am reading and understanding this text incorrectly. I will be waiting for your response, but I won’t hold my breath. Instead of raging against an Evangelical-pastor-turned-atheist, perhaps you should buy some clothing. You are naked, man.
Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Most Evangelicals claim to be “people of the book.” The first church I worked for in the late 70s had an advertising sign located at a member’s home on Route 15 that said, “The Blood, the Book, and the Blessed Hope.” Park in front of a local Catholic church or a mainline congregation and observe how few members carry their Bibles to church. Do the same at a local Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) and you will see that MOST members, including children, bring their (KJV) Bibles to church. Granted, after church, many of those Bibles will be returned to the front dash, back window, or underneath the seats of their automobiles. Some members “store” their Bibles in their car trunks — safe and secure, ready for the next Sunday.
What most members DON’T do is regularly read/study the Bible. In fact, most Evangelicals haven’t read the Bible through once, yet they are “people of the Book?” Sure, buddy, sure. Imagine if I said I was a follower and worshipper of Harry Potter, the greatest wizard of all time, yet when asked if I had read all seven books in the Harry Potter series, I reply, “I only read book one and book four.” How could I be a follower and worshipper of Harry Potter and not read all seven books? Yet, hundreds of millions of people claim to be Christians without ever reading the Bible from cover to cover. If the Bible is THE book above all other books, and different from them in every possible way as the inspired, inerrant, and infallible Word of God, why do most Christians rarely read the Bible, and fewer still read from table of contents through concordance? The Bible commands Christians to judge others by their fruit (good works). Based on countless surveys and studies, Evangelicals may claim to be “people of the Book, but they are largely ignorant of what it says. And that includes more than a few preachers who do little, if any, Bible reading/study outside of preparation for their sermons. Worse, some preachers don’t read or study the Bible for their sermons either. Instead, they buy books of sermons or rip off sermons preached by big-name preachers. There’s no time for the Word of God when you have golf matches to play, hunting trips to take, and conferences and meetings to attend.
As a former Evangelical preacher, I worked my ass off ministering to church members and community residents. But, I never sacrificed my reading and study of the Bible, typically spending twenty hours a week preparing my sermons and reading devotionally. I was always troubled by colleagues in the ministry who were lazy, indifferent to the needs of others, and spent more time on entertainment and “family time” than they did on the actual, God-ordained work of the ministry.
Here’s the most dangerous thing Evangelicals can do: READ THE BIBLE FROM COVER TO COVER. Take every book of the Bible as written. The Bible is not a univocal text. Careful readers of the Bible will quickly learn that it contradicts itself, justifies immoral behavior, and is littered with mistakes and errors. BY all means, consult interlinears, concordances, and other text tools, but avoid books written by Evangelical authors. Their goal is to indoctrinate and condition, rather than impart knowledge and understanding.
If Evangelicals truly become “people of the book,” it is likely they will stop being Evangelicals after reading and studying ALL OF THE BIBLE. Many of the Evangelicals-turned-atheists I know deconverted after reading the Bible. I encourage every Evangelical to read the Bible. Every book, every chapter, every verse, and every word. Don’t listen to your pastor. Remember, he has a job and salary to protect. Don’t rely on Evangelical apologists or devotional books. Use your mind, pondering what the text actually says. You will find that many Evangelical preachers play loose with the Biblical text, using it as proof for peculiar beliefs and dogmas. Have you ever heard your pastor claim that there are numerous prophecies about Jesus (the Messiah)? Most church members give a shout-out to Jesus without ever investigating whether their pastor’s claims are true. They aren’t.
To my Evangelical readers, I say, please read the Bible. All of it. I guarantee you that if you will do this, your life will dramatically change. Granted, you may become an agnostic or an atheist, but you will, at the very least, have truth on your side. You will no longer govern your lives based on what is uttered from the pulpit. You will no longer have a “borrowed” theology. Most preachers enter the ministry with a borrowed theology, and unless they do the necessary hard work in the study, they will never mature intellectually. And if they won’t do what’s necessary to be an educated man of God, their parishioners will remain stupid and ignorant too.
Bruce Gerencser, 69, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 48 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
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