John Piper, a notable Evangelical pastor and author, is known for his Calvinistic and complementarian beliefs. Piper believes married women should “submit” to their husbands in all things, even if they physically and/or verbally abuse them.
In the short video that follows, Piper is asked whether a married Christian woman should submit to physical and/or verbal abuse. Piper replied:
“If it’s [asking her to engage in group sex] not requiring her to sin, but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, she endures perhaps being smacked one night.”
What a mighty and wonderful God John Piper worships and serves.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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The Taliban can use this guy.
Didn’t Oral Roberts suggest that if you cannot discipline your wife, take her to the Middle East, force her to become a Muslim fundamentalist, then bring her back and enter Christianity again. But give it a year. They’ll beat some religious sense into her. These guys love to pick on the vulnerable.
For people who hate Fundamentalist Islam, they sure share a lot of the same values.
“Simply” hurting her?
I can think of about half a dozen horribly painful things for Piper to “simply” endure, but I’ll spare you the gory details.
What a fucking ass. Any woman who listens to him and is killed by her abuser…well, the blood is on his hands. And this man has a hard heart…I thought that was the ultimate sin.
I’m just quoting some author by the name of Mary Beth Bonacci. This lady is a Roman Catholic Author who advises young people about dating, sex and love and marriage. Tis is from the book entitled “Real Love” and this is on page 263 of the paperback edition. She made this remark about some woman just dating someone and not actually being married to them. ” If you are dating someone who has been either physically or emotionally abusive with you, get out. If anyone hits you, shoves you or in any other way threatens your physical safety, this is no one you want to be with,” This book was printed in 1996 and I don’t believe MS. Bonacci had ever been married at the time. It is pretty sad when some never married Catholic woman can give better advice about dating and marriage than some married Baptist pastor.
As if the church has any ability to control an abusive man. I assume they will talk with him and require he pray to god for forgiveness and help to end his abusive ways. Then they will counsel the woman to be a properly submissive wife to make sure he doesn’t get upset.
Guilting an abuser into confessing to god then requiring his victim to forgive him and help him is nothing more that the church adding more abuse onto the victim.
And We all know how abusive a church can be when they are trying to help you be a good christian
Fundamentalists created their deity in their own abusive image
Piper: “If it’s [asking her to engage in group sex] not requiring her to sin, but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, she endures perhaps being smacked one night.”
Zoe: Huh? Oh boy, wait a minute? One can engage in group sex and that in an of itself isn’t a sin? Group sex is okay, just don’t sin?
he didn’t say that about sex, listen to the video
The quote in the post is his. His words, Keki, his words. Do you really think I would write this post without listening to the video first?
Here’s a full transcript of what Piper said:
Part of that answer is clearly going to depend on what kind of abuse we’re dealing with here, how serious this is. Is her life in danger? Or is this verbal unkindness? I’m not sure what the person who asked the question had in mind. So let me just talk about different kinds.
A woman’s submission to her husband is rooted in the word of God, calling her to be—for the Lord’s sake, for the Lord’s sake—submissive to him. Which means she always has a higher allegiance, namely to Christ.
Therefore Christ’s word governs her life. And Christ has many words besides “Be submissive.” “Be submissive” is not an absolute, because her Lord has other things to tell her, so that if the husband tells her something that contradicts what the Lord tells her, then she’s got a crisis of, “To whom do I submit now?” And clearly she submits to Jesus above her husband. The reason she is submitting to her husband is because of her prior superior submission to the Lord.
So if this man, for example, is calling her to engage in abusive acts willingly (group sex or something really weird, bizarre, harmful, that clearly would be sin), then the way she submits—I really think this is possible, though it’s kind of paradoxical—is that she’s not going to go there. I’m saying, “No, she’s not going to do what Jesus would disapprove even though the husband is asking her to do it.”
She’s going to say, however, something like, “Honey, I want so much to follow you as my leader. God calls me to do that, and I would love to do that. It would be sweet to me if I could enjoy your leadership. But if you ask me to do this, require this of me, then I can’t go there.”
Now that’s one kind of situation. Just a word on the other kind. If it’s not requiring her to sin but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, and she endures perhaps being smacked one night, and then she seeks help from the church.
Every time I deal with somebody in this, I find the ultimate solution under God in the church. In other words, this man should be disciplined, and she should have a safe place in a body of Christ where she goes and then the people in the church deal with him. She can’t deal with him by herself.
So the short answer, I think, is that the church is really crucial here to step in, be her strength, say to this man, “You can’t do this. You cannot do this! That’s not what we allow. That’s not what Christ calls you to be.”
I can’t go in to all the details, but I would say to the woman, “Come to a church that you feel safe in. Tell them the case. Let the leaders step in and help you navigate the difficulties.”
http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2009/08/21/john-piper-on-submission-in-abuse/
And Piper’s church is having issues. Three pastors have left due to the “culture” of the church. https://www.startribune.com/3-pastors-leave-bethlehem-baptist-church-one-citing-toxic-culture/600087938/
Piper is the epitome of everything that is wrong with Christianity. He is a proponent of complementarianism and double predestination. He is dogmatic and arrogant in all of his views and unfortunately he has a big following including my brother who has also become dogmatic and arrogant.
problem is that there is nothing right about christianity at all that isn’t done better somewhere else.
as one of my favorite books says, I’ll just wait until you are asleep and a ball bat will be employed
I just finished reading Kristin du Mez’s “Jesus and John Wayne,” in which see addresses Piper and his role in advancing “complimentarianism” in white Evangelicalism. Of course, in reality, as she points out, “complimentarianism” is nothing different from authoritarian patriarchy given a more benign label. Piper’s son, Abraham, is a well-known atheist. No wonder with a father like John.
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I can’t stand Piper. I can’t even look at him, let alone listen to his voice &/or videos. I did not know his son is an atheist.
mr piper is disgusting. so he’d rather a woman be abused and her children witness it all for jesus. so sick of this. watched people over the years live this out and it is toxic and destructive. never ends well. no magic forgivenss and better behavior.
Wow way to post an article with no context. Judging by the responses, people who visit this site are foolish enough to need it without further research.
Wow, way to post a stupid comment. Piper said what he said. A transcript of what he said is in the comment section. Judging by your response, you are the one who is a foolish 🍆🍆🍆.
Have a problem with what Piper said take it up with him.
Hi John,
Piper is a hard line Calvinist. He seems to be authoritarian in his theological and ethical views.
Piper fails to see that compassion, mercy and kindness should be central to human relationships. There is a view among some Christians that married men and women are equal. Each should listen to the other, treat the other with dignity and respect, not a man domineer his wife.
I take it that you are an Evangelical Christian. Then why not study an Evangelical view that differs significantly from Piper’s complementarianism . I suggest that you google Christians for Biblical Equality.