Originally posted in 2015
From your earliest recollection, you remember the church.
You remember the preacher, the piano player, the deacons, and your Sunday School teacher.
You remember the youth group and all the fun activities.
You remember getting saved and baptized.
You remember being in church every time the doors were open.
You remember everything in your life revolving around the church.
You remember praying and reading your Bible.
You remember the missionaries and the stories they told about heathens on the other side of the world.
You remember revival meetings and getting right with God.
You remember . . .
Most of all you remember the people.
These were the people who loved you. You thought to yourself, my church family loves me almost as much as God does.
You remember hearing sermons about God’s love and the love Christians were supposed to have for one another.
Like your blood family, your church family loves you no matter what.
But then IT happened.
You know, IT.
You got older. You grew up. With adult eyes, you began to see the church, God, Jesus, and the Bible differently.
You had questions, questions that no one had answers for.
Perhaps you began to see that your church family wasn’t perfect.
Perhaps the things Mom and Dad whispered about in the bedroom became known to you.
Perhaps you found out that things were not as they seemed.
Uncertainty and doubt crept in.
Perhaps you decided to try the world for a while. Lots of church kids did, you told yourself.
Perhaps you came to the place where you no longer believed what you had believed your entire life.
And so you left.
You had an IT moment — that moment in time when things changed forever.
You thought, surely, Mom and Dad will still love me.
You thought, surely, Sissy and Bubby and Granny will still love me.
And above all, you thought your church family would love you no matter what.
But they didn’t.
For all their talk of love, their love was conditioned on you being one of them, believing the right things.
Once you left, the love stopped.
Now they are praying for you.
Now you are a sermon illustration trotted out as a warning to people who question and doubt.
Now they plead with you to return to Jesus.
Now they question if you were ever really saved.
They say they still love you, but deep down you know they don’t.
You know their love for you requires you to be like them.
You can’t be like them anymore. . .
Such loss.
Time marches on.
The church is still where it has always been.
The same families are there, loving Jesus and speaking of their great love for others.
But you are forgotten.
A sheep gone astray.
Every once in a while, someone asks your mom and dad how you are doing.
They sigh, perhaps tears well up in their eyes . . .
Oh, how they wish you would come home.
To be a family sitting together in the church again.
You can’t go back.
You no longer believe.
All that you really want now is their love.
You want them to love you just as you are.
Can they do this?
Will they do this?
Or is Jesus more important to them than you?
Does the church come first?
Is chapter and verse more important than flesh and blood?
You want to be told they love you.
You want to be held and told it is going to be all right.
But here you sit tonight . . .
Alone . . .
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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I know many feel alone after deconversion, I guess I was just lucky to find new social contacts, friends whose company I love to be in. There’s also the fact that, when we meet I’m not tying myself in knots trying to ‘witness’ to them as I would have been previously, our friendship is open now, no ulterior motives.
‘…..Perhaps you found out that things were not as they seemed….’ In the last 3 years, in my small circle, in my small corner of the world, I’ve been told by 2 women of sexual abuse they suffered in x-tian settings, one from 6yo by her brother and one by her vicar when she was a trainee curate!!!!!! Tip of the iceberg? I think it most likely.
I was fortunate that I never was close to anyone in my church, so leaving was actually a relief. I never had that loneliness or that rejection. I don’t miss church at all.
For me and my family ( mother and half- brother) the loneliness was actually IN church, because we were discriminated against for being poor, with no husband and father in the home, so we weren’t what ” they ” wanted for church members. It turns out, this kind of attitude is more common than people know – it’s part of the whole Americanism thing, and it comes with lots of pressure. You see this example in the many Korean churches in Los Angeles. The missionaries did quite a number on them, as chasing money and conformity blunted love, and care for the community . And no, I’m not lonely regarding church, because I don’t trust American Christianity anyway. Once I found out what was going on, that particular lonely feeling was gone. The only loneliness I have now, is that all my loved ones aren’t alive anymore. And the churches bear a responsibility for that ! A story for another day.
About a year ago, my husband and I visited our daughter who is now living in Nashville, just a few miles from where I grew up. My aunt and uncle still live a couple of miles from my childhood house. One morning, I drove my husband around the area to see the little restaurant that had the Pac-Man machine, the lake where my grandfather took me fishing, the long-closed elementary school I attended for 4 years, the church where we spent so many hours. I told him lots of stories. He said that he knew there were lots of problematic issues about the Southern Baptist doctrines, but he also heard me talk about friends, kind adult teachers and parents, fun hours exploring the church buildings, learning how the baptistry worked, different types of banana pudding at church pot-lucks. He heard stories of community. And I miss that.
Now I am the evil atheist. If those nice church people knew, they’d pray for me, but stay the hell away in case the devil hops out of me and contaminates someone. My aunt and uncle now know that we’re atheists because my daughter inadvertently let the cat out of the bag. To her, a lifelong secular person, it’s no big deal. But now my aunt and uncle think we’re all going to hell. As progress and affirming as my aunt and uncle are, they still believe you have to get saved to avoid eternity in hell. I know they mean well – I doubt if they’ll bring it up again – I think my uncle felt a duty to say something because he loves us. But I WAS saved, at least as far as our doctrine taught. I WAS. And now I don’t believe in any of it. Sometimes it feels lonely for my husband and me because so many relatives on both sides are God-believers. They don’t get us, and we don’t get why they hang onto fairy tales. I mean, we understand wanting a sky-daddy, or wanting to feel that death isn’t the end, or hoping for miracles. But facing reality gives us a certain freedom, and we can’t go back.
They did it unto Him.
Why should I give a fuck that they did it unto him? First, you have no idea what they did to him. You know that, right? The Bible is not a history book, it is a book of claims: claims requiring evidence for justification.
I meant it as, if they ignored or disowned you, it’s like they did that to Jesus Himself. Alot of churches have ignored God.
Comparing an atheist to Jesus will not have the effect you desire.
I didn’t mean to hurt or upset you. I just see you as a good-hearted person who got caught up in a system that was faulty, not your fault. Hats off to being a kind hearted shepherd within a less-than-perfect system.
I have been deeply touched by your story.
What effect do you even mean? I am thinking out loud, being authentic me. From my worldview, that is how I process what I read.
This isn’t the place for you to be your authentic self. This isn’t a place to quote Bible verses, proof texts, give Bible illustrations, or preach. I fear you think by being “nice” that readers will give you a hearing. If you do, you haven’t read the room very very well. We are not where we are due to a lack of knowledge and understanding. We’ve read the Bible inside and out. Many of us have Bible college/seminary educations. We have well rounded understandings of the Bible text and Christianity. You telling us we are wrong, misinformed, taught wrong, etc. if you are going to make claims about me and the readers of this blog, please provide empirical evidence for your claims; including answering questions you’ve been asked.
I have had the experience Terri, of being told that I am a better Christian and the kind of Christian we should all be. I was told this after sharing that I simply no longer believe as I once did.
One might wonder why that would upset me or others, and it comes down to feeling ignored. It’s like a person waves their hand and says, ‘Oh well, look what they did to Jesus. You are in good company.’ You and I and others may process such a statement differently based on context and our lived-experiences.
So, comparing an atheist to Jesus in light of our lived-experiences appears dismissive to our story.
Not saying all seminarians are snobs or Pharisees, but I HAVE seen it ( seminary education)often sadly make folks dismiss God speaking to them in very simple ways.
You see Terri. Your comment here? Is it meant to be condescending?
But does God speak to people at all, or are we somehow primed to imagine an outside voice for our own thoughts?
I’m no psychologist, I’m a former engineer and geologist. In retirement, I write fiction. As I write dialog, I hear the various voices in my head, the tones, the way people from different backgrounds phrase things differently. These are absolutely not real, and yet real in my head. As a lifelong depression sufferer, I understand all too well the ability to lie to myself, and of course the self is the easiest person to lie to.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, simply that there are other possibilities. And so coming here with certainty gets you pushback.
Hi Zoe, it was meant to be factual, and objective. Not condescending. This was only a part of what was said, Bruce didn’t post the other part. I had just said that I’ve often seen children have deep insight that had been “trained out of” seminarians
I’ve been amongst criminals who were poor in spirit, and were at a much humbler place in their lives ( and thus more compassionate) than alot of the heady “Bible educated men” who were overbearing and proud because of their head knowledge.
Welp, you might want to lessen the number of comments you leave. Generally, people who leave lots of comments are either trolls or have some sort of agenda — especially when questions go unanswered.
Typically, Evangelical/Conservative/IFB Christians are given limited opportunities to comment. The reason is simple. Most of the regular commenters on this blog are atheists, agnostics, pagans, humanists, secularists, and liberal Christians. Again, read the room.
Thanks Karen, 😊 and I’m sorry you’ve suffered so much with depression 🫥. Winston Churchill did, too. Good for you, being an engineer, geologist and writer!! I love it when women find their path, follow their heart ❤️ and excel in formerly only “male-dominated” professions. I think Margaret Thatcher was an engineer 🤔 at one time, or something like that. Before she became one of Britain’s greatest P.M.’s. She’s one of my favorite people in history, but I’ve got alot!!
Here, Zoe…my husband just called me downstairs to show me this…it explains in a 2 minute story what I meant. Alot of men have never, ever had to deal with this kind of thing. Worth 1,000 written words. https://vt.tiktok.com/ZSASh4nnT/
I don’t do tiktok Terri.
I hesitated to post this, as it might be breaking the rules, but here goes. You know ” the still, small voice” the Bible speaks about in the story of Elijah in Old Testament? And how, in many generations, multitudes of believers have been led by it? I’ll share a bit of my own experience. I used to own 2 cabbage patch dolls that were collector’s items. Had them from early youth. Didn’t plan on giving them up. One day, I felt in my spirit, “go bring these 2 dolls to your friend, Alice.” Usually, if not always, the inward “voice” would always be something my own logic would disagree with, for lack of knowing all the ins and outs of a situation. I thought, “why? Alice isn’t into dolls, nor does she have children”. But it kept tugging at me. So I did. When I got there, Alice began to cry. She said, “I was praying 🙏 and asking God for something I could give to comfort a little native girl who came by my shop today, whose Dad had lost everything. (Floods and forest fires 🔥 up north there).
Another time, I was at home, crying out to God with tears for Him to bless 2 exchange students in one of my classes…one from Hong Kong, the other from India. God’s voice “spoke” in my spirit very suddenly…it’s like in my spirit, I could hear, “what are you doing here? Get up and go drive 🚗 in your car now!” It was middle of winter, about -25 Celcius. I didn’t know where I was to drive, I just went, and my “gut” all the way to the Northern Telephone building at a far-flung end of town. We’ll, guess what? Those 2 exa t students were RIGHT THERE, and they were only wearing light summer jackets!!
They had taken over a one hour bus ride to the station, but had to walk from uptown in the freezing cold 🥶 to go pay their telephone bill. I was SO EXCITED AND HAPPY to be able to offer them a ride, and take out coffees ☕️ all the way back to South Porcupine, a long enough trip! We had a blast! So many true stories like this, and my husband has lots, too. I wasn’t even going to share any of this on here, have been here for awhile…but I felt it was important to answer.
“I hesitated to post this, as it might be breaking the rules.”
You didn’t hesitate too much, did you? You should have listened to that “still small voice” that said, “Don’t do it.” But you did, as Christians almost always do. This comment of yours will not have the effect you think it will. Again, read the damn room. Imagine if you had a Christian blog and atheists left comment after comment about atheism or the bankruptcy of religion—especially your brand of Christianity. How long would it take you to say “enough?” You’ve left almost 100 comments…most that are pro-Christianity or pro your flavor of faith.
Answer what Terri?
Do you consider your story here as proof of God’s existence? I can easily tell you I have more stories than you. I can’t prove that but I have a lot of stories too Terri. And Bruce has more than me for sure. Do you think we can’t possibly relate to you Terri? That you are somehow missing the mark in your communication with us? We’ve been there Terri. Are you thinking we’ve never had that “still small voice” experience? Your experiences are yours and I don’t think anyone here is discounting your testimony. We have one as well but there is a sense that ours doesn’t measure up as you try to bring us along.
I pastored a rural church in southeast Ohio for 11 years. Our building was a historic brick building with vaulted ceiling — built in 1831.
The building sat off the highway on top of what locals called Sego Hills. Some nights, I would sit in the dark, quiet building contemplating the power and presence of God. Powerful moments when I “felt” the deep emotional presence of God.
I hear you Bruce. I was often in awe inside some old churches. As a young girl I would leave school and head to the church for choir practice. I’d get there first and I’d climb the spiral staircase, and walk the carpeted floor. It would be dark. Empty and still I’d marvel. 🙂
Alright. I’m so sorry Bruce. Didn’t realize how much I posted until you showed the statistics. You have been very, very gracious, then. And I wasn’t gonna share that story at all, it’s just when Karen asked about how do we know if we hear from God. It was just an answer to a question she posed. Or at least an example, if not an answer. And then there was that comment about, ” Why aren’t you answering questions?” Well, because, that would take alot more comments by me, and I can’t use Scripture or anything, so 🤷 I can’t answer any of that, you guys would feel like it’s overmuch. And that’s okay. I guess I’m a pretty focused, intense person sometimes, don’t mean to hurt anyone or trigger anything. If this site is like a “safe place refuge” for people, that’s okay 👍. John explained it really well, I appreciate that. I’ve been reading all of the comments people write ✍️, and feel quite fond of all of you. Had a bit of a huff with Matilda, lol, but at the end of the day, it’s all good 👍. Thanks for having let me be a part of the community for the past couple months, I appreciate it. Take care and all the very best 👌!!
Terri: It seems you have left the building? The use of Scripture, if I may, indicates that you don’t understand, we already know the Scriptures. 🙂 We studied, we researched, we preached it. So, flinging Scripture at us to explain it to us is useless and a waste of your time and ours actually. For every single person that uses Scripture to present their case, there is another person using the same Scripture and interpreting it differently.
Many have come before you Terri. Claire here is one who engaged us several years ago on Bruce’s blog. This is an exchange I had with her. Since you appear to favour personal stories and explanations, I thought I would share it with you. Perhaps it will clarify for you where some of us are coming from. As I remember, I don’t think Claire responded to me. I don’t expect you to do so either if you are still lurking.
Claire comments:
I think if people received a true perception of the absolute joy of knowing Christ , they too , would want to have it.
Zoe responds:
It probably won’t surprise you that many former Christians feel insulted by such a statement regardless of your intention. Let me explain. It’s another way of saying we were never Christians in the first place. As a fellow human on this earth, this just waves away our actual existence and experience here. Our former belief must have been a figment of our imagination. We must have been deceived by Satan. Wolves in sheep’s clothing. Even within the Body of Christ such claims are made to fellow Christians. We shouldn’t be surprised that once we step out of the Body that we’d get this even more. *Today I still get tears in my eyes when someone dismisses the joy I knew, the sorrow I knew, the salvations I witnessed, the prayers I prayed because I never ever came to a point of receiving “a true perception.” Nonsense Zoe, it never happened. “If” it had then you would still be. In one moment of time the blackboard of my existence, my own experience, my story is wiped clean. I don’t exist. I am invisible.
My ancestors knew the joy of Christ. Although wait now, which of them according to you, according to the Bible “received a true perception of the absolute joy of knowing Christ” . . . ? My Christian Science ancestors? My Methodist ancestors? My Anglican ancestors (one who actually translated the Common Book of Prayer into a Native American dialect?) My United Church of Canada (a collection of Presbyterian, Congregationalist and Methodist) ancestors? My Unitarian Universalist ancestors? My Baptist ancestors. And while I’m at it, I have Catholic friends and family who claim the joy of Christ. Is Catholicism a “true perception?”
Updated: * Re: tears in my eyes. It’s now 2020 and the tears have dried up in this regard. Their denial of my own experience is theirs to own.
Terri: “I think Margaret Thatcher was an engineer 🤔 at one time, or something like that. Before she became one of Britain’s greatest P.M.’s.” Your “Kind Christian” mask slipped a bit with that statement. It revealed more about your real world views than all the God blathering you’ve posted on Bruce’s blog.