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Category: Evangelicalism

I Really Liked You, but Then I Found Out You Were An Atheist!

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dont talk to atheists

My writing tends to attract a number of Evangelical readers. If they happen to come to this site via a search engine result that takes them to a specific page, and they are not overly curious about who I am, they might even conclude that I am a Christian. I’ve received numerous emails from Christians praising me for my stand on the Word of God, only to get another email later expressing how disappointed they are about finding out I am an atheist. One woman even told that she wished she hadn’t learned this because now she couldn’t trust any of my writing (please see Curiosity, a Missing Evangelical Trait).

Evangelicals say that truth is important to them, but the fact is they only want truth from certain sources. They only trust their own, and they are unwilling to believe that truth can be found outside of their peculiar theological rut. It seems that everything I learned about the Bible, Christianity, and the ministry over the first fifty years of my life became toxic and worthless the moment I said I no longer believe. All of a sudden, a once trusted source is now considered a heretic, a liar, a deceiver, and a tool of Satan.

Several years ago, an Evangelical woman commented on this site and tried to solicit my support for her war against clergy sexual abuse. She loved my writing about the subject and was certain we were of a common mind. At the time, she didn’t know I was an atheist. Once she found out I was, here’s the email she sent me:

I was not familiar with your story and change of heart concerning God’s word. I can tell you I don’t believe in religion but I do believe in the bible. Big big difference. People, circumstances, man made religions will always hurt us and let us down. I have never felt the pressure to conform to anything or anybody. I have never tried to take the burdens of this world on my shoulders and have never judged my belief in God’s word based on my circumstances. Why? The bible is clear on who we are and aren’t in Christ. This world is set in motion both good and bad by our Heavenly Father. We are all called  individually to find our way to our creator via the bible. I am a RN,grandmother, saved at nine. The things I have seen in my years working with  dying patients has only strengthen my belief. Those who choose to look at the leaders of organized religion  and believe their every word and interpretation of the bible. Are the ones that burn out,walk away and give satan the victory. If I thought for one minute this life was it. I would never have brought children into it. Man could never have  created our beautiful nature around us. Sit in the woods and listen, look,and you will find our creator.  Look away from man and your own reasoning. It will always leave you with feelings of loss and doubts if you don’t. Praying for you.

I can only imagine how disappointed she was when she found out I was not on Team Jesus. I will leave it to others, if they are so inclined, to respond to her silly notion about religion vs. the Bible. I will say that it is religion that gave us the Bible, not the other way around. The Bible was birthed by the church. Only Evangelicals fail to understand this, thinking that God tossed a leather-bound King James Bible over the portal of heaven and when it landed on earth it immediately gave birth to Christianity.

On another post, Brian and Zoe responded to her statement about not having children if this life is all there is.

Brian said:

” If I thought life here as we know it was all their is. I couldn’t face another day. I would not want to be a mother grandmother or nurse. What hope could I give my loved ones and patients. I know without a doubt I have a creator above that loves me just like I am. Knowing him makes me want to love give forgive and keep reaching out.”

I am so sorry that life is so meaningless to you, that you couldn’t face another day! That you would spurn motherhood and being a grandmother and nurse! Wow, what utter depravity you must live with…. I am so sorry. As a mother, a grandmother and nurse you likely give such love and help… YOU give…. Why do you throw that away as if it is worthless? I find statements like yours very very sad. What on earth happened to you to make you state such things? Just open your heart (to yourself.)

Zoe had this to say:

Cheryl wrote: ” If I thought life here as we know it was all their is. I couldn’t face another day. I would not want to be a mother grandmother or nurse. What hope could I give my loved ones and patients.”

Zoe responds: Sure you could Cheryl, you just don’t know it. You aren’t so very different than many of us who also once could have and did have those same thoughts. I suspect like many of us because you are a mother a grandmother and a nurse, you indeed could face another day, many days. 🙂

My unbelief in your God does not affect who I am as a caring and kind person. I spent time yesterday with a Christian family who is facing a life and death situation. My unbelief did not affect my love for them or my ability to be present, to help, to make supper, to care for children, to encourage and support them. It certainly also did not interrupt my hope for the best possible outcome. As a nurse myself (no longer in practice) I am also still a great sounding board regarding medical terminology. My unbelief in a theistic being like yours doesn’t change who I am as a human being.

Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Martyn Lloyd Jones Asks, Is Jesus Lord of Your Intellect?

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bible literalism
Drawing by David Hayward

Or to put it another way, do you parse every thought you have through the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God?

Martyn Lloyd Jones, a 20th century Reformed pastor, who is quite popular among fundamentalist Calvinistic/Reformed Christians, had this to say on the matter:

‎”My thinking, if I believe that Jesus is the Lord, must be governed entirely by the Bible. In other words, I am not governed by modern thought. If I am governed by that, then Jesus is not the Lord of my intellect. So I cannot be governed by modern thought or by recent knowledge or by the latest discoveries of science. The moment I begin to be governed by those things, then Jesus is no longer Lord to me. I am putting myself in a superior position. I am making myself the lord.”

It should come as no surprise that Lloyd Jones rejected evolution. In his book, What is an Evangelical? , Lloyd Jones wrote:

‘We accept the biblical teaching with regard to creation and do not base our position upon theories of evolution, whichever particular theory people may choose to advocate. We must assert that we believe in the being of one first man called Adam, and one first woman called Eve. We reject the notion of pre-Adamic man because it is contrary to the teaching of the Scripture.

‘Now someone may ask, “Why do you care about this? Is this essential to your doctrine of salvation? Are you not falling into the very error of over-particularization against which you warned us at the beginning?” I suggest that I am not, and for these reasons. If we say that we believe the Bible to be the Word of God, we must say that about the whole of the Bible, and when the Bible presents itself to us as history, we must accept it as history. I would contend that the early chapters of Genesis, the first three chapters of Genesis, are given to us as history. We know that there are pictures and symbols in the Bible, and when the Bible uses symbol and parable it indicates that it is doing so, but when it presents something to us in the form of history, it requires us to accept it as history.

‘We must therefore hold to the vital principle, to which I have referred earlier, of the wholeness and the close interrelationship of every part of the biblical message. The Bible does not merely make statements about salvation. It is a complete whole: it tells you about the origin of the world and of man; it tells you what has happened to him, how he fell and the need of salvation arose, it then tells how God provided this salvation and how He began to reveal it in parts and portions. Nothing is so amazing about the Bible as its wholeness, the perfect interrelationship of all the parts.’

Let this be a reminder of how the Evangelical doctrine of inerrancy and Bible literalism cripples a person’s ability to think and reason. When inquiry begins with an inerrant, infallible, inspired text there can be no hope of a satisfactory answer. Every answer must be fit into the Bible box and anything that doesn’t fit in this box is rejected out of hand. This kind of thinking breeds ignorance and keeps a person from seeing the world as it is.

The Rapture, A Doctrine No One Really Believes

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the rapture 3

Millions of American Evangelicals believe that Jesus is going to come back some day very soon, perhaps today, and rapture them from the earth.  This rapture, or catching up, is only for those who have put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ. Most of the population of the world will be left behind. (Left Behind. Hmm, that would  be a great title for a poorly written fictional book series that would make its authors filthy rich.) For the Evangelical, maybe for the first time in their life, they will get to fly first class. All those who laughed at them or mocked their beliefs will be left behind as they soar through the clouds with Jesus on their way to God’s Motel 6.

After all the washed in the blood Christians are raptured, God will open a big can of whoop ass and for seven years he will pour out his judgment and wrath on the earth. (or 3 1/2 years depending on what kind of rapturist you are) By the time the Great Tribulation is over, God will have slaughtered almost every human being on the face of the earth. Awesome, right?

The rapture is a relatively new eschatological belief, dating back to the 19th century. (the history behind the belief is quite interesting)  Central to rapture belief is the notion that Jesus could return at any moment. I am sure most of you have heard a preacher say that we are waiting for the imminent return of Jesus. He could come today!

Evangelicals often try to scare me into repenting. Here’s what one Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) commenter said trying to scare me with the rapture:

Time is short and HE is coming again. I would hate to see you blogging about how the Lord came and raptured the Church, and how you got left behind, because you were to busy bashing Preachers about this or that. Be a man sir, Please for all of us.

The tactic used by this commenter is used every Sunday in uncounted Evangelical churches. Jesus could return today! Are you ready? Are you saved? You don’t want to be left behind! Are you right with God? Do you want Jesus to come back and not find you busy doing HIS work, HIS work meaning doing what the preacher wants you to do. Oh, these scaremongers are earnest in their pleas, yet when the service is over they pile into their car, drive to the local 10% off if you bring a church bulletin buffet for dinner, and then return home to catch their favorite football team on the TV. You see, these preachers really don’t believe what they are saying.  In fact, no one REALLY believes in the rapture and the imminent return of Jesus.

Right now, an Evangelical is reading the previous paragraph and is outraged that I would suggest that they don’t believe in the rapture. Little do they know that the very fact that they are reading this post is proof of my contention. If a person REALLY thought Jesus was coming back today, would they spend their time reading the blog of an apostate ex-Christian preacher? Of course not.

the rapture 2

How many times have you listened to a preacher preach a humdinger of a rapture sermon imploring people to get  saved because Jesus could come today, only to watch this same preacher after the service get in his car and drive down to the local Bob Evan’s for lunch?  If the preacher REALLY thought Jesus was coming back today, would he be spending time eating and fellowshipping at the local Bob Evans? Of course not.

Here’s how you can tell what any Evangelical REALLY believes. Just look at how they live their life from day-to-day. Do they live like a person who is expecting the King of Kings and Lord of Lords to show up at any moment? Does their life reflect their belief that this is the generation that will see the return of Jesus?  Of course not.  Like the rest of us, they are busy going to work, making money, mowing the grass, painting the kitchen, washing the car, and taking a vacation. Outside of what they do on Sunday and maybe on Wednesday, they live lives that aren’t any different from the rest of us. How they live betrays what they really believe.

If the rapture could happen today and we are one day closer to the tribulation than we were yesterday, and Evangelicals really believed this, wouldn’t they would be selling their possessions and doing all they could do to evangelize the world? Instead, they are sitting in front of a computer screen ordering the latest book in the Left Behind series or some other end times fiction series.  Tonight, instead of talking to their family, friends, and neighbors about the soon coming rapture, they will sit down in front of the TV and watch their favorite show or they will surf the internet, perhaps stopping by The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser to read what the apostate preacher wrote.  Their lifestyle betrays that they don’t REALLY believe the rapture is imminent.

If I believed that there was a fire coming that would burn down the homes of my family, friends, and neighbors, I would make sure everyone knew about it. It would be negligent on my part to NOT warn them of the fire to come.  Yet, most Christians rarely, if ever, share their faith. Even preachers who thunder, stomp, holler, spit, and snort as they preach about the need for sinners to get saved, rarely are diligent in evangelizing others. In the 8 years I have lived in Ney, Ohio, not one Christian or preacher has knocked on my door to warn of the doom to come. They left flyers for Back to Church Sunday, their ice cream social, or their craft bazaar, but not one time have they uttered a word or left a piece of literature that warned the village atheist and his family that Jesus is fixing to come to soon.

John the Baptist went to the wilderness and preached the gospel. The Apostle Paul went from town to town preaching the gospel. The Evangelicals of today? They go from conference to conference, church meeting to church meeting, and website to website,  learning how to be a fatter sheep. The world? It can go to hell, Duck Dynasty is on.

[signoff]

 

A Black Woolly Worm and Two Snarky Atheists

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woolly worm chart

From generation to generation, Ohio children are taught the myth of the woolly worm. Each fall, woolly worms, the caterpillar form of the Isabella Tiger Moth, make their appearance, and like Punxsutawney Phil who predicts how long winter will last, the banded woolly worm predicts how severe the coming winter will be. The blacker the woolly worm the worse winter will be, or so says the great woolly worm myth.

Like the mythical Jesus of the Bible, the woolly worm and its magical weather predicting power lives on as parents tell its story. Few will bother to investigate this claim, choosing to believe that the mostly black woolly worm they saw is a sure sign that snow will blanket Ohio for most of the winter.

Earlier, we piled into our car and headed to Tinora High School to watch our 7-year-old grandson’s flag football game. We traveled southeast on Ohio Hwy 15 for a few miles and then turned north on Evansport Road. A mile or so up the road:

Polly: Oh no, a black woolly worm. You know that means we are going to have a bad winter.

Polly, showing her dislike of winter: Maybe I should run over him.

Bruce: He’ll got to hell if you run over him.

Polly: How do you know he’ll go to hell?

Bruce: He didn’t persevere to the end.

Polly laughs, and Bruce says: He’s not one of the elect woolly worms.

Polly and Bruce have a hearty laugh, giving God nary a thought.

Are These Seats Saved? 

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football fans
Yesterday, my oldest son and I, along with Bethany and two of my grandchildren, attended the Tinora vs. Fairview football game. We arrived about an hour before game time and found our seats at the 50 yard line on the Tinora side of the field. A half hour or so later, an older man and woman came near where we were sitting and the following conversation took place:

Woman, pointing to the seats in front of us: Are these seats saved?

Bruce, the Evangelical turned atheist: No, they are lost.

Woman, clueless that she has stumbled into a theological snarkfest: Well, they are saved now.

My son and I had a good laugh.

Help! My Fundamentalist In-Laws are Driving Me Crazy

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guest-post

Guest Post by Lydia who blogs at On the Other Hand

In-laws can be an ongoing source of tension in extended families that haven’t established or don’t respect appropriate boundaries. The good news is that this doesn’t have to be the case. With a few adjustments religious differences do not have to be the focal point of your get-togethers.

Make Sure You’re on the Same Page as Your Spouse.

Each spouse should be responsible for communicating potentially tricky messages to their own family of origin so that the person who married into the family isn’t seen as an interloper. You two are a team and nothing should separate you under these circumstances.

Also consider picking code words or non-verbal signals ahead of time that will let your spouse know that:

– You’re ready to leave.

– You’re ok.

– They need to step in.

Visit on Neutral Territory.

By that I mean spend time at a park or restaurant instead of at your extended family member’s house whenever possible. It helps to eliminate the this is my home and you’ll do things my way syndrome. Plus, spending time in public spaces reduces the likelihood that they will push the conversation into religious topics.

Keep Visits Short and Sweet.

My Fundamentalist extended family members are usually ok for a couple of hours. Any longer than that and they tend to slip back into bad habits.When in doubt it’s better to leave a little prematurely than stay too long and risk ending the visit on a sour note. You can always come back later.

Have an Itinerary.

Pose for professional family photos. Go for a walk in the park. Play a game. Show them that cute thing your kid or pet learned how to do. Eat out. Do anything other than sit quietly and stare at one another.

Visit Less Often Than They’d Like.

People who miss you are less likely to bring up potentially divisive topics (especially if they know that you’re only visiting for a few hours today and that they won’t see you again for X number of weeks/months/years).

Make a List of “Safe” Topics

…and stick to them.

I imagine that I’m actually speaking to, say, a stranger I just met on public transportation. In those cases am I going to talk about God, politics, or my sex life? Hell no!

I’m going to talk about neutral stuff like the weather or ridiculously cute animal videos on YouTube.

Choose Your Battles.

Sometimes sticking to neutral topics doesn’t work, though.

“The Bible says…”

“Come to church with me this weekend.”

“I want to teach your kids about God.”

“You’re going to hell!”

There’s nothing wrong with ignoring statements like these if your in-laws do bring them up. Not every thread in a conversation needs to be tugged on.

Remember the acronym J.A.D.E. If you don’t want to talk about something, never Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain yourself. Someone who refuses to let a topic die will never be satisfied by any reason you give for not wanting to do, say, or believe X.

It’s also a good idea to decide ahead of time what your hill to die on is and how you will respond if the in-laws go there.

Topics I haven’t covered because I don’t have kids and don’t like to debate :

How do you argue politely with Fundamentalist in-laws?

How do you raise non-religious kids when their grandparents want to convert all of you?

Readers, what would you recommend?

Dear Friend: Dave Tells His Story to A Friend

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guest-post

I want to thank Dave for sharing the letter he sent to a Christian friend. Please share your thoughts in the comment section.

Dear Friend,

You know about my dismissal from the church staff five years ago due to my “independence”. And you know that my daughters and their husbands shunned us after that happened  cut us off completely. And you know that those relationships continue to be painfully torn apart. And you know that I haven’t been to church in a couple of years. Well, here’s what you may not know. Here’s the rest of the story.

The end before the beginning: I have lost my faith. I have left the faith. I no longer believe in God as embraced within Biblical Christianity. However you define it. I’m done. I have left the building.

How did I get here? Is this just my response of anger and hurt to my perceived injustice of people behaving wrongly in the name of God? Are these just my own personal offenses? No. You are free to think that if you choose, but that is not what this is. This is no knee-jerk reaction. And I did not arrive at this conclusion quickly. It was a long, arduous, painful process.

From a recent article I read:

“A common personality type is a person who is deeply emotional and thoughtful and who tends to throw themselves wholeheartedly into their endeavors. “True believers” who then lose their faith feel more anger and depression and grief than those who simply went to church on Sunday”.

That describes me, I think. It’s a quote from an interview with Psychologist Marlene Winell, who lists it as a symptom of what she calls Religious Trauma Syndrome. You can read the article here.

Aren’t these just people who would be depressed, anxious, or obsessive anyways:

Winell: Not at all. If my observation is correct, these are people who are intense and involved and caring. They hang on to the religion longer than those who simply “walk away” because they try to make it work even when they have doubts. Sometime this is out of fear, but often it is out of devotion. These are people for whom ethics, integrity and compassion matter a great deal. I find that when they get better and rebuild their lives, they are wonderfully creative and energetic about new things.

That’s another paragraph that seems to describe my experience.

I was “all in”. I was never a pew-sitter. From my earliest beginnings in the winter of 1973/1974, I was all about serving Jesus with everything I had. I was 18.

I decided to forego college because I believed the return of Jesus was imminent and my time could be better served elsewhere. Besides, college was all about getting a job and making money and I was so not into that. So I ran coffee houses and street ministries. I spent my time trying to convert wino’s and street people instead of building a 401K. I worked at youth camps, went on mission trips. I handed out Bibles in Moscow’s Red Square and preached at public schools in Russia; helped build an orphanage in Belize.

I led worship and small groups. I served on staff at churches and preached sermons. I taught classes and Bible studies. I led prayer groups, like organizing a 24-7 prayer vigil for a deacon in our church. For three months after he was burned in an industrial accident, we believed and cried out for his healing. He left behind two young boys and a wife who herself died of cancer a few short years later. (but I digress)

I studied the Bible. For hours and hours and hours….and for years. I know it inside out. I studied Greek and Hebrew lexicons, concordances, study guides, all of it. It was the Word of God to me. It was the source of life. Even when I didn’t live up to it; still it remained true. I prayed. For people; for healing; for life. Many hours spent in prayer over 38 years. I tithed. I gave my time and money and energy and the absolute best years of my life. And I gave my children. To the Lord. Willingly. And he took them.

Now none of this is meant as a diatribe against God, the old, “look what I have done/sacrificed for you, and what have you done for me”. No. That’s not what I’m saying. All this is meant to say: This was NOT a casual thing for me. It was everything. I was always passionate about what I did and I was always all in.

So when you get knocked down what do you do? You get back up and dust off and trudge forward. Except this time, after a couple of years of trudging on, I began to ask why. Why am I trudging forward? To what? For whom? As I contemplated these questions I realized something: I had never truly examined this faith that had been everything to me for my complete adult life. I had jumped in as a slightly disoriented young man lacking direction and motivation and found a cause to attach myself to. But I had never critically examined the claims that Christianity is built upon. I just accepted them. I was told the Bible was divinely inspired and is the authoritative Word of God and is complete and total in its instructions as to how to live and for whom to live and what life is all about. I bought it. I never, not once, compared Christianity to the myriad other religions that make similar claims to exclusive authority.

I found in Christianity a place to belong and something to give myself to. That was enough for me. And, oh yeah, I got to go to heaven when I died; so there was that as well. It had everything. And I gave it everything. Until I didn’t. Until I finally laid it all out on the table and examined it. I quit making excuses for the parts of the Bible that had always troubled me. I quit looking the other way. I decided if the Bible couldn’t stand on its own under the glaring light, then I was no longer going to minimize its inconsistencies and contradictions.

I won’t go into it here about what I found. It’s too much. It’s too ugly.

Once the Bible became a common collection of letters and books (written by ordinary men) to me, the rest of the dominoes fell rather quickly. And after all those years and all that effort and all that devotion and all that worship, I was done. It was over.

Video Link

I invite you to pause a moment and watch this video; or at least just listen to the song. I heard it recently. I stopped. I paused it and played it back over and over. I wept. And I wept and I wept. It captured perfectly my experience of losing my faith.

“Say something, I’m giving up on You”. That’s how I heard it. You. Jesus.

“I’ll be the one if You want me to; anywhere, I would have followed You”.

That was my cry to the Lord when I was sifting through all of this.

Say something…anything…please.

He didn’t. He wouldn’t. And I came to the painful conclusion…he can’t.

“I will swallow my pride; You’re the One that I love, and I’m saying goodbye”.

I’m not sure if many people understand how hard that is. To look up and say, I was wrong. For almost 40 years, for my whole adult life…I was wrong.

You might not understand, and you might not agree. I get that. But it is what it is. And no, it’s not something that will change. I’m not going to suddenly (or even gradually) believe in Jesus again. If you once believed in Santa as a child and no longer do, wouldn’t it take some remarkable evidences to cause you to believe again? You can’t make yourself believe something again just because you want to.

Trust me, after what it has cost me, if I could snap my fingers and make it happen, I would.

You may be disgusted or disappointed at my personal loss of faith. That’s OK, I understand how that may affect you. You may want to talk to me about it. I’d be glad to. You may grieve with me at my loss. I appreciate that. But please, don’t do this: don’t say something like, well it’s religion that has done this to you, and I hate religion too; I just love Jesus. No. Please no.

It was Jesus who said this:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

If Jesus indeed said that, we should want nothing to do with Him. Those verses sound pious and holy and simply dripping with devotion, but they are deadly in their application. (by the way, if he didn’t say those words, what are you doing? What is the Bible then, really?) Those verses sound very spiritual in terms of one’s relationship with Jesus, but until you have seen those words play out in your own family, you don’t really know what they mean. (by the way, this scripture was being quoted pertaining to me while I was still VERY much in the faith).

You can’t imagine-and I hope you never experience, the damage that this kind of thinking can cause. I have seen my family totally devastated. And I have settled into a life that is marked by a dull ache. Every now and then when I see pictures on FB, or get Christmas cards with grandchildren’s pictures, there is a sharp stab of a pain of a different kind. But mostly, it’s like a cloudy, cold day that settles on you like a wet blanket. I guess it will always be.

So no, I’m not angry at God. You can’t be upset with someone if you don’t think they exist. I’ve heard it said I am bitter. Maybe a bit toward certain people; but certainly not toward God. (again, he’s not there) I have regrets. Many regrets. I will live with them.

One last thing. This has not changed who I am at my core, I still love people and cry when I see them suffer; or when I see them treat each other with kindness; or pretty much any time. I am moved by loss and pain and grief. I enjoy life, the bits I can snag that are good. I value humanity more than I ever have. In fact, I have a heightened sense of the value of every person and no longer view them in terms of what side of the “aisle” they are on. I see folks as all the same and seek to do good as opportunity presents itself to show kindness or generosity or love. I am no less moral than I ever was.

Anyway, that’s the gist of it, If you’re getting this, I figured I owed it to you. Because you are or have been, a dear friend.

Dave

Lest You Forget Why You Ran Screaming from the IFB Church

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fundamentalism

Many of the people who read this blog are survivors of the worst that the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement had to offer. (if you don’t know what an IFB church is, please read What is an IFB Church) From mental, emotional, and spiritual abuse, to being physically and sexually abused at IFB group homes, many of you know first hand how toxic and murderous the IFB church movement is.

Bob Gray Sr. is the retired pastor of Longview Baptist Temple in Longview, Texas. Gray’s son, Gray Jr. now sits on the throne of family empire. Gray Sr. is what I call a consummate bean counter. He knows right down to the soul how many people he has won to Jesus. Years ago, I calculated, based on the salvation numbers touted by Gray Sr, that every person in Longview, Texas should now be a Christian. Gray Sr. is a devoted follower of  the late Jack Hyles, the adulterous pastor of First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana. Last year, the Longview Baptist Temple gave a warm welcome to David Hyles, the son of Jack Hyles, a man known for being a serial adulterer.

Gray Sr. is proud to be a general in the IFB army. He is proud of his blind allegiance to Jack Hyles. Several years ago, Gray Sr. let it be known that he was proud to be a topical preacher. Topical preaching is the style of preaching where the preacher chooses a topic to preach on and then finds Bible verses to support his chosen topic. It is proof-texting at its best and it is a style of preaching that is quite common in the IFB church.

Many IFB preachers have about 4 sermons. They have four thousand titles for those four sermons, but they only have four sermons. When a preacher preaches topically, it becomes quite easy for him to make the Bible say anything he wants it to say. As my friend Steve said, who was once a member of Longview Baptist Temple,  Gray Sr’s sermons all sound the same. Sadly, this is a common problem in the IFB church movement. They have the same set of sins they preach against over, and over, and over. I am beginning to think that the people who attend IFB churches must be the worst sinners in the world. Why must their pastors spend so much time telling them what vile, wicked, sinners they are? Aren’t they getting the message? Isn’t the Holy Spirit communicating with them, reminding them of their duty to obey God? Besides, since IFB church members are expected to be at church every time the doors are open, when do they find time to sin?

Take Gray Sr’s March 2014 blog sermon. It is what I call a double barrel shotgun blast sermon. Gray hits almost every IFB hobby horse. To sum up Gray’s sermon, whatever it is, he’s against it. See for yourself:

…A pastor who was upset with my preaching said to me, “I don’t have to preach like that because what we believe can be found in our constitution and not in our church pulpit.” Well what I believe can be found in the pulpit as well as on paper. Those types of preachers are basically cowards. They are what I call silent disciples!…

…Get this! Satan has not changed one bit. There are still Pharaoh’s in this day and time that we live in! The cry still is, “Let my people go!” Satan still says to God’s people, “Worship God, but do it in Egypt! Stay in the world and worship God! Be spiritually minded on the inside and don’t worry about the outside! Live in the world, dress like the world, talk like the world, and sing like the world but don’t give the outward appearance of being fanatical. This is post-modernism, emerging church, or cultural acclimatization…

…In America today you have giant charismatic churches, emerging churches, and Rick Warren wannabes where the choir has become a “worship team” looking like the heathen world. They act like it and sing like it. The bands on their platforms are just like the world’s bands. The women wear their pants, their shorts, and their mini-skirts while the men wear earrings, necklaces and all together praise God. This world has dictated their lifestyle and not Heaven! This cultural war has invaded the local church.  First with a “Contemporary” hour tacked on later is a “Traditional Service.”…

…The pharaoh’s of this world say, “Use Egypt! Avoid dogmatism, avoid division, avoid separation from the world, use Egypt’s music, have contemporary worship services, have worldly bands, and please most of all have unity.” Today’s pharaoh’s say, “It’s ok to drink in moderation.” If your talking about coca-cola that is ok! Today’s pharaoh’s say, “You’ll not have an appeal to this world if you don’t use the world to appeal to the world. Stay in Egypt while you worship God! Mark my word it will not be long until four letter vulgar words will appear in the music on church platforms….

…Born again people drinking cocktails, wearing shorts, listening to ungodly music, using religious rock, and inviting the world into church is worshipping God in Egypt. Born again people going to Hollywood movies where nudity, cursing, humans acting like animals, and the merciless senseless violence is worshipping God in Egypt. Born again people lying on the beach in the summertime in their underwear is worshipping God in Egypt…

…There was a time in our nation when your child could play little league, or soccer, or football, or basketball in the public schools, but not anymore. The cursing and the bad examples will completely engulf and create a worldly mindset that you will regret when your children become adults. Stay away from the influence that breeds compromise. We are not to get our pleasure from this world.

Your local church, your pastor, your Sunday school, your youth programs, your fellowships, your music, and your activities must remind people of Heaven not Egypt. If you don’t believe what I am writing then just look at those who attempted to be a Christian while staying in Egypt. Check out those who turned on their pastor and left the man of God’s influence. Oh, the stories of tragedies in just my 42 years of ministry. It really is sad!

Satan says to a pastor, “Ok have your beliefs just don’t go very far from the world. You don’t want to be called a fanatic. Have the old hymns and add new choruses led by a worship leader. Use some contemporary religious rock music. Keep your beliefs just don’t go very far from the world Have your traditional services, but also provide at a different time a contemporary service.” The sad truth is that those contemporary services are nothing more than a second-class amateur hour for rock music in Jesus’ name. It has turned into an American Idol contest…

…A rebel teen said to me one time in anger, “You’ve become an old man that’s out of date.” I replied, “Yes, and I’m going to continue to stay further out of date.” If being in date means using false Bibles, drinking, going to filthy movies, and acting like barn yard animals then I would just as soon stay out of date. If being in date means denying the inspiration of the old King James Bible I will stay out of date.

The same Christianity of the Bible ought to be the Christianity of every generation. Haircuts on the males are not out of date! Long hair on the females is not out of date! Dresses worn by ladies is not out of date. No dresses on the males is not out of date. God said to man of God, “Go tell Pharaoh to let my people go…

…It’s time student’s respected old age, teachers, and staff. It’s time for the godly adults to be the heroes of young people. It’s time for Lee Roberson to be more popular than Tiger Woods.

Egypt’s music is rotten. We are facing a rotten Hollywood, rotten TV programs, rotten magazines, and rotten stars have produced ruined young people. Why, they are staying in Egypt or hanging around Egypt.

These young Gadarene demoniac stars have captivated the young people especially our young ladies. Young ladies have become young females with their provocative dress or lack there of in public. It is shocking how unashamed young females are in public. Their hairstyles, music, morals, and lack of respect for themselves, let alone for any one else is destroying not only them but our nation also.

How about trading the Rolling Stones for the stone that was rolled away. Let us trade the world’s rock for God’s rock. Let us trade the singer called The Prince for Jesus the Prince of Peace. Let’s trade Elizabeth Taylor for Elizabeth the mother of John the Baptist. Let’s trade Michael Jordan for Michael the archangel. Let’s trade Playboy for praying men. Let’s trade the new morality for the old morality Let’s trade the NIV for the KJB. Let’s trade situation ethics for Bible ethics. Let’s trade homosexual marriages for heterosexual marriages. Let’s trade living together before marriage for living together after marriage. Let’s trade visitation for soul winning. Let’s trade king Elvis for King Jesus..

…A world of rap and hip-hop music with filthy four letter words being sung at OUR WHITE HOUSE. We as God’s children ought to refuse to stay in Egypt, hang around Egypt, or leave our children in Egypt and refuse to leave our possessions in Egypt. Every dime you spend for ungodly movies and ungodly magazines or any other ungodly activity is in essence leaving your possessions in Egypt. I have said for years that there will be more people in Hell because of a lack of cash than for any other combination of reasons…

Aren’t you glad that ran from this kind of mind numbing, soul deadening insanity? Gray speaks of leaving Egypt. Little does he know that, for many of us, leaving Egypt meant running from the emotional, mental, and spiritual abuse that IFB preachers like Gray pass off as good, hard preaching. Gray calls it stepping on toes, I call it stepping on the self-worth and spirit of a person and grinding them into the ground.

David Attenborough on the Irrationality of Creationists

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creationism ken ham

David Attenborough, a naturalist and BBC broadcaster, had this to say about creationists:

Every society in the world has found it necessary to produce a story to account for the fact that humanity is on earth. The Australian Aboriginals think that the first humans were regurgitated by a great rainbow serpent in the sky, the people in Thailand think the beginning of the world was a huge pool of milk and a snake was pulled by demons, and the milk coagulated and that formed human beings and there was a time, two and a half to three thousand years ago, when people on the east end of the Mediterranean thought woman was made from the rib of the first man.

If somebody says to me I believe every word of the Bible is true, you can’t argue against that degree of irrationality…there is actually a way of looking at the natural world and seeing the evidence and it’s all there. And what’s more it’s the same evidence whether it’s in Australia or Northern Europe or wherever. It’s all the same—it all produces the same answer and you can all see the evidence—if you reject that then there’s nothing I can say.

The Similarity Between Answered Prayer and the Gifts Santa Brings

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guest-post

A guest post by Richard. He blogs at RichardMarlowe236.

I grew up as a fundamentalist Christian.  A church three times a week, the Bible is the inspired inerrant word of God, evolution is a lie type of Christian.  I have since deconverted and consider myself an atheist (I prefer the term free-thinker).  I plan to write a later post detailing my journey.

A few months ago I had a conversation with a family.  The family member is a fundamentalist Christian.  I had just revealed my loss of faith to her.  Needless to say she was surprised.  She seemed unable to fathom how anybody could deny the existence of God. So, the conversation turned to proof for God’s existence.  Her reasons for believing were personal experience, scriptural authority, creation, and answered prayer.  While the first three reasons played a part in her belief, answered prayer was the most convincing to her.  She never said this directly, but it was the primary emphasis of the discussion.  Her logic for answered prayer as proof of God is as follows:

  • She had a need or want for something.
  • She prayed to the Christian God for this something.
  • She received this something.
  • God is why she received it.
  • Therefore, God exists.

Answered prayer is a common “proof”  by theists for the existence of God.  Sometimes it can be difficult to convince believers that answered prayer may have a natural explanation or may be a coincidence.

Yet this logic is flawed.  I witnessed this exact same logic unfold before my eyes except it was not to prove God’s existence.  It was proof for Santa’s existence.  (I know, I know!  Atheists always equate belief in God with belief in Santa.  Please keep reading as I am just using a personal example to demonstrate the flaw in the above-mentioned logic.)

I have three young children.  The oldest two believe in Santa Claus.  Starting in November, they began picking out toys they wanted for Christmas.  They went to see Santa and asked him for those toys.  On Christmas morning they awoke to these toys under the tree.  Automatically they attributed this to Santa.  To them it was “proof” for his existence.  Their logic was as follows:

  • They had a want for something.
  • They requested (prayed) for Santa to receive this something.
  • They received this something.
  • Santa Claus is why they received it.
  • Therefore, Santa exists.

See any similarities to the answered prayer logic?  It is exactly the same.  Actually you could use this logic to prove almost any being’s existence.

This does not even take into consideration unanswered prayer.  When this is brought up, many believers will say sometimes God says “No.”  Basically it boils down to this:

If I pray to God for something there are two possible outcomes.

1.  It will come to pass.

Or

2.  It will not.

How would this be different if there was no God?  If you made it this far… Thanks for reading!