Recently, Pastor Tommy McMurtry, pastor of Liberty Baptist Church in Rock Falls, Illinois, said:
The atheist religion always is a supporter of perversion. They are always the biggest supporters of the LGBT, the trans rights, and all that because it is an anti-God religion. And unfortunately for them, the preaching of the truth that we do exposes the filthiness of their lifestyle, the filthiness of their belief system, and they don’t like that. They just hate light. That’s all there is to it.
Recently, Evangelical zealot Geri Ungurean had this to say about atheists:
Find a person who not only claims to be an Atheist, but obsesses on pushing their atheistic views on others so as to recruit them; and I guarantee that if truth be told, and this person opened up about their life, you would find an ANGRY person. You would find a person who blames the God whom they say does not exist, for something that happened in their life.
It’s truly sad.
There is a saying that goes like this: “There are no atheists in foxholes.” I believe this is true. A lifelong “atheist” will cry out “God help me” when faced with death.
VERY TELLING.
Do you have a person in your life who claims to be an atheist? I have many. But I came to the point when I realized that God must be the One who gets through to the “haters.” The more you push against them, the nastier they become. The more Scripture you give to them, the more they laugh.
Love them and pray for them. There is a man on Twitter whose sole purpose for being on there is to tout his “atheism” in hopes of drawing others to his sad conclusions.
I watched this man for many days. I wanted to say something to him, but it was as if God was holding me back. I felt in my spirit to show Christian love to him and most importantly to Pray for him.
He finally opened up to me that he went to seminary and that he was saved during college. He knows that my boys (grown) refer to themselves as atheists now. I feel that the Holy Spirit has led me in this friendship. I pray for this man every day – expecting God’s answer.
I am hoping and praying that the Lord will bring him back. I pray for God’s will to be done in his life.
But I don’t for one minute believe that he is an atheist. I believe that something happened in his life which made him bitter towards God.
Brethren, I believe that many of us have these people in our lives. Sometimes, they are in our immediate families. Sometimes they are friends or co-workers. Show love to them and do not argue with them.
Most importantly, PRAY for them every single day!
The Arm of God is not too short to reach anyone, and that includes those who are angry with Him!
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.
Repost from 2015. Edited, updated, and corrected.
At one time, Christians seemed to all agree that saying swear words was a sin, especially uttering blasphemous phrases like God dammit or go to hell. These days, in many corners of the Christian ghetto, swearing is now accepted. Even preachers are known to show their coolness and hipster cred by using choice words, not only in their conversations with others, but also in their sermons.
I came of age in the late 1960s and 1970s. In the Baptist churches I attended, saying swear words was definitely considered a sin against the thrice-holy God. Most of the preachers of my youth would quote Exodus 20:7: Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain, as justification for their prohibitions against cursing. These preachers never did explain how saying “shit” was “taking God’s name in vain.” I later came to see that this commandment had little to do with saying certain words. According to 17th Century Presbyterian theologian and pastor Matthew Henry, taking God’s name in vain meant:
We take God’s name in vain, [1.] By hypocrisy, making a profession of God’s name, but not living up to that profession. Those that name the name of Christ, but do not depart from iniquity, as that name binds them to do, name it in vain; their worship is vain (Mat_15:7-9), their oblations are vain (Isa_1:11, Isa_1:13), their religion is vain, Jam_1:26. [2.] By covenant-breaking; if we make promises to God, binding our souls with those bonds to that which is good, and yet perform not to the Lord our vows, we take his name in vain (Mat_5:33), it is folly, and God has no pleasure in fools (Ecc_5:4), nor will he be mocked, Gal_6:7. [3.] By rash swearing, mentioning the name of God, or any of his attributes, in the form of an oath, without any just occasion for it, or due application of mind to it, but as a by-word, to no purpose at all, or to no good purpose. [4.] By false swearing, which, some think, is chiefly intended in the letter of the commandment; so it was expounded by those of old time. Thou shalt not forswear thyself, Mat_5:33. One part of the religious regard the Jews were taught to pay to their God was to swear by his name, Deu_10:20. But they affronted him, instead of doing him honour, if they called him to be witness to a lie. [5.] By using the name of God lightly and carelessly, and without any regard to its awful significancy. The profanation of the forms of devotion is forbidden, as well as the profanation of the forms of swearing; as also the profanation of any of those things whereby God makes himself known, his word, or any of his institutions; when they are either turned into charms and spells, or into jest and sport, the name of God is taken in vain.
Sure, in point number five, Henry mentions swearing, but what about points one through four: being a hypocrite, breaking a vow, rashly making an oath, and lying? On Sunday, each of the churches I pastored gave parishioners and visitors an opportunity to come forward during the public invitation and get right with God, either by getting saved or confessing sin. I witnessed plenty of weeping and gnashing of teeth as people covered the altar rail with their tears (and snot). Oh God, I’m so sorry I lusted after Sister Susie this week, please forgive me. Dear Jesus, please forgive me for looking at porn. I promise to never, never look at a naked woman who is not my wife again. Dear God, I know that YOU know that I really didn’t stop smoking like I told the preacher I did. I’m so sorry for lying. I plead the blood of Jesus over my life and I promise to never, ever smoke another Marlboro. And, in a matter of hours, days, or weeks, the penitent church members would return to their “sin,” thus requiring a new round of weeping and wailing. Their vows to not sin were, according to Matthew Henry, taking God’s name in vain.
Many of us who use curse words use them when we are angry or upset. Sometimes, we use swear words to ameliorate a serious pain that we are having. I’ve learned that, after hitting my finger with a hammer, saying “God dammit!” really loud tends to lessen the pain. According to research presented to the British Psychological Society, swearing is an emotional language, and using it can make a person feel better. Perhaps the use of 506 expletives in 179 minutes as actors did in the movie Wolf of Wall Street is a tad bit excessive, but I know firsthand that cursing can, and does, have a cathartic effect on a person. While certainly those who swear must be aware of proper social conventions, swearing at the referee on TV who just hosed your favorite football team can be emotionally satisfying, and I highly recommend it.
A dear friend of mine from back in the days when we both were part of the Trinity Baptist Church youth group, laughs every time she hears me utter a swear word. She often replies, “I never thought I’d see the day when Bruce Gerencser said a swear word.” From the time I was saved at the age of 15 until I left the ministry, I never uttered one swear word, outwardly anyhow. I thought plenty of swear words but never verbalized them. To do so would have branded me as a sinner and as a man who didn’t have his emotions under control.
Evangelicals are every bit as emotional and angry as their counterparts in the world. Knowing that telling someone to “fuck off” would bring them rebuke and shame, Evangelicals have developed what I call Christian swear words. Christian swear words are expressions such has:
As you can easily see, these words are meant to be replacements for the real swear words. This way, angry or emotionally upset Evangelicals can express themselves without running afoul of God’s FCC.
Years ago, a preacher who considered himself totally sanctified (without sin), was known for using the phrase, taking it to the hilt. He and I were quite good friends, and one day when he repeated his favorite phrase, I told him, you know that taking it to the hilt can be used as a sexual reference for sticking the penis all the way into its base (hilt). He was indignant that I would dare to suggest such a thing. He later learned I was right and apologized (Do you suppose it ever dawned on him that he had sinned by using this phrase after he said he no longer was a sinner?)
Swear words are just that: words. Social conventions dictate their use. I am a card-carrying member of the Swearers Club. I make liberal use of curse words, especially when speaking to officials from afar on a televised sporting event. Even Polly, sweet, sweet Polly, my wife, has devolved to my level. While I am careful when using swear words in public or around those who are easily offended, I refuse to be bullied into submission by the word police. I rarely use swear words in my writing, but I do so on occasion. It’s up to the individual readers to decide if a well-placed malediction is offensive enough to stop them from reading.
Sometimes, when responding to the emails persnickety Evangelicals love to send me, I deliberately use swear words that I know will euphemistically cause urine to flow from their genitals. They will respond with outrage as did fundamentalist Baptist preacher Jeff Setzer during a “discussion” on the post, The Legacy of Jack Hyles. When Jeff first commented on the Jack Hyles post, he was polite and respectful. However, during his last round of comments he decided to get more aggressive — a common ploy used by Evangelical zealots. When I determined that Setzer hadn’t taken the time to actually read my story, I responded to him by writing, “I encourage you to take the time to read my writing. The answers you seek can be found there.” And here’s the dialog that followed:
Setzer, in response to Brian, a former IFB pastor’s son: You can be wrong too, right along with all of the molesters. And like the victims of physical abuse, you are a victim of spiritual and intellectual abuse…that which is many times more difficult to overcome than mere physical abuse. Since the physical realm regularly confirms the Bible to be true, as well as other realms of evidence, I KNOW the Bible is truth. There is NO doubt whatsoever.
Bruce: Ah, now there’s the Christian asshole that every Fundamentalist eventually morphs into. This is your last comment.
Setzer: Do you know what profanity is? How about what kindness means? Or intolerance? “Last comment”? Can you not reason and share where your supposed point of rejection was, or perhaps you have built a wall, making a skin of a reason based upon woefully fallible men who set up themselves as authoritative? I’ll look up the posts to which you refer, but I haven’t seen any logic on here yet but rather emotion. You’ve come to a conclusion out of emotion and not logic. I’d be glad to communicate further with you if you’re open to logic and evidence and not being outright dismissive. Thanks for being willing to dialogue.
Bruce: After your first comment you were taken to a page that had the comment rules. You have violated the commenting rules and this is why I will not approve any further comments by you. My asshole comment is in response to your last approved comment. If you don’t like being called an asshole, don’t act like one.
You can read the rest of the sphincter-muscle stimulating comments here.
I am of the opinion that if a person doesn’t want to be called an asshole then he shouldn’t act like one. Setzer, ever the clueless Fundamentalist, was more concerned over me using profanity than he was how his words were being perceived by myself and others. Instead of becoming outraged over a word, perhaps God’s anointed ones should pay attention to how their own words and behaviors reflect on the good news they purportedly want everyone to believe.
As Setzer surely would have known had he bothered to spend time reading my writing, I rarely use curse words, and in the comment section I reserve their use for when Fundamentalists — and it is ALWAYS Fundamentalists — are showing how little fruit is growing on their spiritual trees. You know, the fruit of the spirit: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Sometimes, preachers I mention by name in one of my articles write asking me to remove their names from my post. They don’t like being called out by name. My thinking on this goes something like: if you didn’t want to be cast in a poor light you should have treated me better. After all, the Bible does say, you reap what you sow, right? One offended preacher was upset that I mentioned that he impregnated and married his first wife when she was 13. Here’s a man who travels the countryside telling others how to live, yet he had, and may still have, a thing for young girls (and pastors who are still having him come to their church to preach need to know this).
Well, I think I’ve run out of words to type on the computer screen. I’ll see if I can refrain from offending Fundamentalists with my salty language. Nah, fuck that . . .
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.
My recent interaction with a man who was a teenager and married young adult in two churches I pastored, raised a regret that I have long had about my ministerial career and its deleterious effect on people who called me “Preacher” or “Pastor Bruce.” (Please see Dear Terry — Part One and Dear Terry — Part Two.) Thousands of people sat under my preaching at one time or the other. Hundreds of others were active congregants with whom I had closer relationships. And a handful of people — not many — were friends.
For many years, I was a hardcore, hellfire and brimstone, pulpit-pounding, King James-waving Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preacher. While my theology and practice moderated over time, I was still quite conservative theologically and politically. It wasn’t until late in my ministerial career that I made a decided leftward turn towards the social gospel and liberal politics.
My regret comes from the influence I had over people during my IFB/conservative days; how my preaching and teaching deeply formed and instructed church members; how my preaching and teaching caused incalculable psychological harm (and led to physical harm and abuse when parents put into practice my instruction on discipline). Many of the people I once pastored are either no longer Christians or have moved on to gentler, kinder expressions of faith. I am glad that they have progressed and matured, even if I disagree with their sincerely held beliefs. I am not an antitheist. I don’t hate God or Christianity, in general. I am friends with people who are Christians. On Monday, I had lunch with a man who pastors an Evangelical church in Bryan, Ohio. We had a wonderful time. On Sunday, I will have dinner with three friends of mine: a former Lutheran pastor, a United Church of Christ pastor, and a Buddhist. We have been meeting together for years. We eat, drink, and talk about all sorts of things — including religion. I am quite comfortable having discussions with religious people as long as they don’t view me as their “enemy” or some sort of target for evangelization. I have no interest in having discussions with Bible-thumpers or Evangelical zealots. If such people want to interact with me, they can do so through my blog. Beware, the blog dog bites. 🙂
Some former congregants such as Terry haven’t moved a lick belief-wise over the years. Terry is attending a church that has beliefs similar to the churches he attended when I was his pastor. His worldview has evolved very little, if at all. I know other former church members who have similarly “progressed.” Oh, they might have made changes to peripheral social beliefs on dress, alcohol, or entertainment, but their core beliefs are similar or identical to what they were when I was their pastor. I feel bad about this, even though I know, as my therapist frequently reminds me, that their belief choices are not my fault or my responsibility. I understand this from an intellectual perspective, BUT, it is hard for me to not lament that I didn’t teach them better; that I didn’t expose them to the depth and breadth of Christian faith and theology; that I didn’t encourage them to think skeptically and rationally. I know that I couldn’t do these things because I didn’t know any better myself. I was a product of a lifetime of religious conditioning and indoctrination. That said, I have never been able to shake the regret I have over my IFB past. I am sure some of you understand exactly what I am talking about.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.
Several days ago, I received a Facebook Messenger message from a former church member named Terry. Terry was a teenager and young adult in two churches I pastored: Emmanuel Baptist Church in Buckeye Lake, Ohio, and Somerset Baptist Church in Mt. Perry, Ohio. You can read my response to Terry’s message here.
I thought my post was thoughtful and polite, cognizant of the friendship and professional relationship I had in the 1980s. I tried to focus on our shared experiences instead of giving Terry what is humorously called “The Bruce Gerencser Treatment®. Had I viewed Terry as just another Bible-thumping, filled-with-certainty Fundamentalist Christian, I would have just said “sigh” (please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh”) or told him to fuck off. But, I value our past shared experiences and friendship we once had, so I decided to respond in a way that would hopefully encourage engagement and, perhaps, show Terry that he might want to rethink what he wrote to me.
Terry would have none of that. Looking at his profile revealed that he has, at least recently, been attending Full Armor of God Baptist Church in Pataskala — a King James-only Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) congregation. Whether Terry regularly attends this church, I do not know. That said, I felt bad when I saw Terry was attending an IFB church, having moved very little theologically or spiritually since his days as a teenager at Emmanuel Baptist Church. Certainly, he is free to worship and believe as he wants. Freedom of religion, right? But, where Terry attends church and who his pastor is might explain his abrasive and hostile response towards me. Or, he just may be an asshole, regardless of his religious background. I haven’t spoken to Terry since the late 80s, so I don’t know what kind of man, husband, father, and grandfather he has become.
What follows is my response to Terry. I doubt I will make any headway with him, but I hope I can educate him about atheism and pushback on some of the false claims he makes.
So what it boils down to is you believe now that nothing created everything. That’s comical. I suppose we came ashore out of the water with gills and a tail and later shed those for lungs and two legs and feet.
Do you have a science education? What do you really know about evolution, archeology, cosmology, and other science disciplines? I am the first to admit that I don’t know a lot about science. Much like you, religion neutered my thinking about science, wrongly teaching me that the Bible is a science textbook — that whatever the Bible says about science is true. Over the years, I have worked hard to fix my ignorance, but I still don’t know much about science.
I do know this much: the universe is not 6, 027 years old; the universe was not created in six literal twenty-four hour days; humans and dinosaurs did not exist at the same time; the earth was not destroyed by a universal flood. These are scientific facts, as any cursory reading of biology, archeology, geology, and cosmology shows.
Terry, what science books have you read over the past forty years? Not religious books or books written by Evangelical apologists — actual books by experts in their relevant fields? Or is your entire understanding of the universe based on what some unknown authors wrote centuries ago before science was even a thing; or it is based solely on what a non-science-educated preacher (such as the Bruce Gerencser of yesteryear) told you from the pulpit? Regardless, I find your certainty troubling; that you are willing to believe things that you haven’t studied or know anything about.
Evolution is a scientific fact. It best explains the existence of our biological world. Evolution and other science disciplines take us back to the Big Bang, 13.8 billion years ago. The question, of course, is what happened before the Big Bang. None of us knows. There are numerous theories about what happened, but young (or old) earth creationism is not one of them. Creationism is religious dogma, not science.
Let me encourage you to read Why Evolution is True, by Dr. Jerry Coyne. Written at a popular level, I think you will find Dr. Coyne’s book to be an excellent primer and explanation of evolution. If you truly want to discuss evolution and creationism, I’m game. More than a few of the readers of this blog have university-level science backgrounds. I am sure they would love to have a friendly, thoughtful discussion with you about these issues.
You bring up creating something out of nothing, a common creationist canard. Keep in mind, you face the same problem: where did God come from? If everything requires a creator, so does God — your God, or any other deity, for that matter. The fact remains that none of us knows for certain what happened before the Big Bang. I am content to say, “I don’t know.” I am more focused on the present, the here and now. The only time I talk about the subject is when Evangelicals such as yourself ignorantly think that atheism and evolution are one and the same.
Atheism is a simple, one-sentence statement about the existence of deities. Wikipedia describes atheism this way:
Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.
As you can see, atheism is “an absence of belief in the existence of deities.” That’s it. The origin of the universe has nothing to do with atheism. Sure, most atheists also believe evolution best explains our biological world, but this belief is not a requirement to be an atheist. Atheists can and do have all sorts of beliefs. Some atheists are right-wing Republicans, believe in conspiracy theories, and are every bit as tribalistic as Fundamentalist Christians.
I love how you bash me on your blog and bash the community where I live and all your cronies chime right in.
Terry, I am perplexed by how butt-hurt you are. Did you expect me to just say nothing or to fall on my face in repentance and tears, and say, Terry, you are right. I found your Bible verse memes so convicting that I unfriended you. That’s not going to happen. If you didn’t want a response from me, you shouldn’t have messaged me.
I can’t find any place in my post where I bashed you as a person. In fact, I went out of my way to be friendly and polite, valuing our past relationship and experiences. As far as what I wrote about Buckeye Lake, what did I say that was factually incorrect? In the 1980s and 1990s, the village of Buckeye Lake proper (not North Bank or other lake edge communities where upper-middle-class, rich people live) was rife with poverty and rundown properties — mostly rentals, some of which were owned by slumlords. Most housing was converted cottages — 900-1,200 square feet in size. The poverty rate was high, with a sizeable percentage of residents on public assistance.
You seem to forget that I worked for the village of Buckeye Lake for three years as a grant administrator, workfare program manager, and building code enforcement officer. I administrated federal and state grants that were used for litter control enforcement and property rehabilitation and remediation. During my time at Buckeye Lake, my workers razed over fifty abandoned, shuttered cottages, the start of the community renewal that took place afterward.
I also oversaw the village’s workfare and court-offender work programs. Over 100 people worked for me every month, picking up roadside trash, reclaiming illegal dumping grounds, and tearing down abandoned houses. I am quite proud of what we did to make Buckeye Lake a better place to live.
Cronies: a close friend. Synonyns: brother, buddy, chum, pal, sidekick. I didn’t read any overtly harsh criticism of you from my “cronies.” Maybe the real issue is that your Fundamentalist butt cheeks are chapped or you expected to be able to preach AT me without any pushback or challenge. Regardless, how about we try to have an adult conversation, Terry. Have questions? Ask away. Want to politely challenge my beliefs? Please do so. Or you can keep rubbing Vasoline on your ass.
As far as asking you questions about your family you never gave me an opportunity to ask you anything before unfriending me.
Terry, I pared down my Facebook Friends list more two years ago, so we were “friends” before that. You had plenty of time to ask me questions before that, but you chose not to. That’s not my problem. I chose to have a small friend list of people who actually regularly interact with me. Neither of us interacted with the other, so that’s the reason I unfriended you. I am sorry that my doing so offended you in some way.
Here’s your chance now: ask me whatever you want. I will gladly answer whatever questions you might have. But, if all you want to do is preach at me, I have no interest in further engagement with you. Life is too short to involve myself in banal, fruitless discussions. Honest, sincere questions are always welcome. If that is what you want, I am game. Ask away and I will do the best I can to answer your questions.
You say you don’t remember if we were friends on Facebook or not but you can remember me as a friend from many years ago funny isn’t.
In other words, you are calling me a liar. Evidently, you must value Facebook or get some sort of existential importance from it, but I don’t. The ONLY reason I have a Facebook account is for my blog. Some readers prefer to read my blog on Facebook, so I oblige them. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have a Facebook account. As it is, I rarely post on my Facebook wall, and when I do I post articles and photos about family and cats. I reserve discussions about religion and politics for my Facebook business page or my blog. My friends list is reserved for people I regularly interact with, be they family, friends, or blog readers. I could have thousands of Facebook friends overnight if I chose to have them, but I don’t.
As far as my memory is concerned, your accusation reveals that you know nothing about me. If we were actually friends or you were a blog reader, you would have known that I have serious health problems; that I have gastroparesis and exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI) — incurable stomach/bowel diseases. I also have fibromyalgia — a disease that affects muscles and nerves — osteoporosis, and degenerative spine disease:
I live with constant, unrelenting, debilitating pain, from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet. I am nauseous all the time, and vomiting is common. Throw in diabetes and high blood pressure, and, well, I have plenty on my plate physically.
Because of my pain (which I take multiple medications to control), I typically sleep in 1-2 hour segments. I am fatigued and tired every moment of every day of my life. As a result, my short term memory is not what it used to be. Besides, I am almost sixty-seven years old. Memory issues are common. I tend to have a sharp memory when it comes to things that happened years ago, but not with current or recent events. Just ask Polly. She will tell you everything you need to know about my memory issues. Or you can just keep calling me a liar.
There’s nothing “funny” about your response to me. I find it sad that you would choose to treat me this way, especially since, as far as I know, I did nothing but befriend and help you. Perhaps your religion is getting in the way of you being a decent human being. Ponder all the ways you could have responded to me, yet you chose to be judgmental and argumentative. Your choice, but I am not sure what you hoped to gain. You have burnt whatever relationship we once had to the ground, and for what? To prove to yourself that you are “right?” To put me in my place? To put a good word in for Jesus? If so, this means you aren’t interested in fostering a renewed friendship with me; you just wanted to score points in the Christian vs. Atheist game.
You knew we were friends on Facebook but you unfriended me because of my love for a risen savior who is sitting on the right hand of God. One day you will bow before him and tell yourself how big of fool you really are.
Again, you are calling me a liar. You have no evidence for your claim, yet you continue to make it. Why is that? I told you the truth. You can accept it, or not. I don’t give a shit either way. You and I are no longer friends, and you seem to want to attack my character, so I hope you will forgive me for not wanting anything to do with you. If and when you can be a decent human being, let me know, and I will be glad to interact with you. I am NOT the enemy, your enemy, or anyone else’s enemy. I am a man you once knew that has different religious (and political) beliefs from you. Is this how you treat everyone you disagree with? Or perhaps my story bothers you, and instead of trying to understand it, you lash out in angry disrespect. Rage away, Terry, but I will not engage you further.
Thousands of people read my blog every day, and some of them are Christians. I am also friends with Christians on Facebook. I am confident that what I believe is true; that the Bible is not inerrant and infallible; that the central claims of Christianity are false; that Jesus was not divine; that Jesus was not a miracle worker; that Jesus was not born of a virgin or resurrected from the dead; that Jesus was an apocalyptic Jewish preacher who was executed by the Roman government for crimes against the state, end of story.
I was an Evangelical Christian for fifty years. I spent twenty-five years pastoring churches in Ohio, Michigan, and Texas, before leaving the ministry in 2005 and deconverting in 2008. All told, I preached over 4,000 sermons and spent 20,000+ hours reading and studying the Bible. I know the B-i-b-l-e inside and out. That you think a Bible verse meme would convict me in some way or cause me to unfriend you is ludicrous. The Internet is awash in memes posted by Evangelical zealots. Check out my Facebook business page (and click follow) if you want to see my mockery of them. I don’t make fun of them out of fear. I mock them because they are silly, often ignorant, and more often than not promote heterodox or heretical beliefs. If you want to have a serious discussion with me, Terry, I am more than willing to do so. I will gladly answer any question or challenge you might have. However, if all you want to do is cast stones and call me a liar, I hope you will understand if I tell you to go fornicate with yourself.
I wish you well, Terry. I shall always remember (I hope) the good times you and I shared. I can see beyond your rigid Fundamentalist beliefs, choosing to focus on the wonderful experiences we once had. If you can’t or won’t do that, that’s on you.
Bruce
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.
Western civilization is under attack. White people are under attack.
I’m not Adolf Hitler, but when the left mobilizes the 93% of the world that’s not white, to then say white people are bad and we have 20-1 Black-on-white crime in the big cities. 10-1 in the rural areas…
It’s not the majority of black folks, but it’s a very active minority that’s attacking us. And the FBI and the ADL fight like the devil to cover that up. It needs to be repudiated. If we had 20-1 white on Black crime, they’d be against it.
What a load of horse shit, unworthy of response outside of debunking Jones’ claim about black-on-white crime in rural areas.
Evidently, Jones doesn’t know that most rural people are white. I live in rural northwest Ohio — in the county of Defiance, population of 37,778 (2020 census). Less than two percent of residents are black. There are four times as many Hispanic residents as there are Blacks. While local Blacks can and do commit crimes, most crime is White on White crime, and not the ten-to-one Black on White crime ratio Jones suggests.
Sadly, Republicans who only listen to Fox News, OAN, and racists such as Jones, North Carolina Republican candidate for governor Mark Reynolds (yes, Blacks can be racists), and Donald Trump, will come away thinking the ten-to-one Black on White crime stat is true. It’s not, but the people who need to hear this never read or listen to “fake media.”
And before someone objects, I am well aware that Blacks as a whole have a higher crime rate than Whites. Are you ready to discuss why that is? Or are you really only interested in another meme to support your racist agenda?
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.
Mark Robinson, an Evangelical Christian, is North Carolina’s lieutenant governor, and the 2024 Republican candidate for governor.
In his own words, this is the man Republican North Carolinians want to be their next governor:
I am so sick of seeing and hearing people STILL talk about Nazis and Hitler and how evil and manipulative they were. NEWS FLASH PEOPLE, THE NAZIS (National Socialist) ARE GONE! We did away with them. Communist created the Marxist Socialist that CURRENTLY control Europe, fill the ranks of OUR OWN Democratic Party, and control our mass media. Compared with the Communist the Nazis were upstart amateurs in terms of manipulation and MURDER.
Nazis are always the ones who are mentioned when people talk about ‘totalitarian’ governments that commit mass murder, the 100 million plus killed by the Communist are largely ignored and our own government is FULL OF MARXIST SOCIALIST who are hell bent on destroying our Constitution and spreading MARXISM. I’ve grown VERY weary of this. I can plainly see the plan of the Marxist and how they hide behind ‘Hitler,’ whose name is CONSTANTLY on their lips.
[Roots] is nothing but Hollywood trash that depicts the ignorance and brutality of the goyim, and the helplessness and weakness of the shvartze.
There is a REASON the liberal media fills the airwaves with programs about the NAZI and the ‘6 million Jews’ they murdered. There is also a REASON those same liberals DO NOT FILL the airwaves with programs about the Communist and the 100+ million PEOPLE they murdered throughout the 20th century.
Note to liberals; I’ll accept ‘Gay Pride’ when you accept ‘White Pride.
I believe that homosexuality is a sin and that those people who are ‘proudly coming out of the closet’’ are standing in open rebellion against God…………….AND I DON”T CARE WHO KNOWS IT OR LIKES IT!!!!!
Okay here it is and it may make some folks mad, but oh well…… First, let me say that I pray for the souls of all those killed, healing for all those wounded, and comfort for the family members of the terrorist shooting in Orlando. However, homosexuality is STILL an abominable sin and I WILL NOT join in ‘celebrating gay pride’ nor will I fly their sacrilegious flag on my page. Sorry if this offends anyone.
The Rainbow is the beautiful symbol of God’ s promise to man. IT IS NOT the symbol of sickening homosexual perversion!!!!
Dear Transgender crowd, You CANNOT tran-sin GOD’S creation. Sincerely, A Bible Thumper.
Nothing is more disgusting to me than effeminate males who carry purses and have ear rings in their ears. #stomachturningmadness
So apparently, using the British word for cigarettes [fag] violates Facebook’s ‘community standards. “LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!
Why does Facebook think it’s okay to insult God by using His rainbow as a symbol of perversion, but doesn’t think it’s okay to insult homosexuals by calling them fa [gs]…… Oooops. Better watch myself.
They might as well make this [NFL football] “f@g” uh-um I mean, flag football.
We have pushed homosexuality over the top. Mark my words PEDOPHILLA is next, which will be closely followed by the END of civilization as we know it
February is Black History Month. I guess the shortest month of the year is all we need to learn about the separate but equal history of a people who have achieved so little.
Random thought; (after Christmas edition). Kwanzaa is Hanukkah on food stamps.
[When asked if he considered himself part of the African-American community] I told them NO!” They asked me why and I said; ‘Why would I want to be part of a ‘community’ that devalues it’s fathers, overburdens it’s mothers, and murders its children by the millions? Why would I want to be part of a ‘community’ that sucks from the putrid tit of the government and then complains about getting sour milk?
Crime ridden black neighborhood are that way because many of the people who live there would rather fight the police than fight crime.
And this my friends is why ‘the hood’ is steaming pile of human waste.
On the plantations of the southern United States, it was house servants and negro overseers who kept the master informed about ‘trouble makers’, and facilitated the ‘divide and conquer’ that kept the masses of slaves compliant and in control. Those house slaves and overseers did their dirty work for a few crumbs off the masters table and a spot on the floor (like a dog) in the ‘big house’. Today is no different, only now it’s ‘reverends’, and ‘senators’, and ‘rappers’, and ‘actors’, and their payment is fame along with money. They are parasites who love money and seek power. Unfortunately, that money often comes at the the expense of those they claim to be fighting for, and the only real power they have is holding the chains that continue to keep many of those people in bondage. It’s time for PEOPLE, not just black people, ( for these types of parasites exist in all cultures ) to see these bastards for what they are; blood suckers who are sapping the strength out of our people.
Dear Negroes, You are free to be anything you like. (i.e. ball player, rapper, comedian, garbage man, pimp, drug dealer etc..) EXCEPT a conservative Republican. If you are a conservative and run for office or become an outspoken critic of our liberal ideology, we will be forced to treat you like a black man at cross burning, and you know what that means boy. Enjoy the rope burns on your neck. Sincerely, The Open Minded Liberals of America.
I’d like to take this time to say thank you to Dr. William Barber (aka Sambo or is it Quimbo) for his tireless efforts in helping white liberals in there quest to keep blacks in North Carolina poor, dumb, and voting for the people who want them to stay that way.
That whole ‘white privilege’ crap kills me. The red headed slaves of Rome would get a real chuckle out of that term. So would the miners of Ireland in the 1800s and the factory workers of London during the industrial revolution and the pilgrims, and…….”
I’m gonna say this and I don’t give a FROGS FAT ASS who doesn’t like it or what you say about me. I am TIRED of blacks and mexicans running around shouting about being proud of their race but when a white person does it they call them a bigot. Look here people, white folks came here with N-O-T-H-I-N-G and and built the most powerful nation on Earth. And they did it by FORCE OF WILL. I’m not saying that Mexicans and Blacks should not be proud, but who do you think has the most to brag about, the folks who built Mexico, the folks who bulit the Nations in Africa, or the folks who built The United States.
if others can thump their chest and claim pride in their race, so can white people.”
If it offends you when white people say ‘WHITE PRIDE’ how do you think it feels when you say ‘Black POWER?
Why is it we NEVER EVER hear about anyone protesting against MUSLIMS praying in public. #coulditbefear?
I keep seeing all these t-shirts, bumper stickers, and front plates that say things like ‘Mexico #1’, ‘I heart/love Mexico’ and ‘Viva la Mexico. My questions is; If you ‘love’ Mexico so much, why did you leave THERE and come HERE?!!!! p.s YEAH I SAID IT!!! #mexicomustbe#2causeyouleftupouttathere
Most of the people who are angry about a miserably poor, corrupt nation [Haiti] full of Voodoo worshippers being insulted, are the same people who beam with “pride” looking at a 10 year old drag queen.
Why is it that the nastiest, dirty looking, trailer trash, ghetto, bad breath and teeth having, not washing their hands after using the bathroom, pick their nose, digging in their behinds, nasty house having, funky butt fools ALWAYS be the most picky at work?
AND NOW IT’S TIME TO PLAY…………..How many occult symbols can you spot in the Olympic Games Opening Ceremonies!!!!!!!
Planned Parenthood; Doing the devils work, with liberals support, for the New World Order.
The only ‘fact’ that has come out of this Bill Cosby story is that the Illuminati will destroy you if you piss them off.
I don’t believe the Moon Landing was faked and I don’t believe 9/11 was an ‘inside job’ but if I found both were true…I wouldn’t be surprised.
I am SERIOUSLY skeptical of EVERYTHING I see and have seen on television. From the murder of JFK to 9/11 to Las Vegas. EVERYTHING.
I know this may sound paranoid and crazy, but I truly believe that the ‘judgement’ format of these ‘reality’ competition shows ( i.e. American Idol, DWTS, Chopped, etc. ) is sign of things to come in the REALITY of the New World Order.
Sadly, what we suspect is true. It seems the globalist will stop at nothing to destroy the progress of American Exceptionalism that this PRESIDENT [Trump] promised and DELIVERED.
So what First LADY Melania Trump speaks five languages. First “lady” Michelle Obama spoke five also; female, male, ghetto, anti-American liberal, and wookie.
The Obamas continue to linger, like the stench of human waste that fouls the air and assaults the nostrils.
Kamala was making much more sense during the Democratic Presidential debates when she was calling Joe Biden a sexist and a racist. I’m sure ol’ Putin is shaking in his jack boots worrying about this nit wit. Wow!
Kamala Harris is a leftist idiot who is fearful that the “right” to MURDER the unborn will be threatened if Brett Kavanaugh is confirmed. She’s part of the unhinged and out of touch wing that dominates the Democratic Party. She should quit trying to kill the unborn and go home to California and clean up the mess there.
Hillary Clinton is the epitome of leftist paternalistic racism. Time and time again she has shown her true COLORS. From “super-predators,” to hot sauce in her pocketbook, to “they all look alike,” this witch flaunts her blatant disrespect of black folks with enthusiastic zeal, knowing full well she won’t be called to task for it. But she’s been rejected by America and exposed as a liar and ineffective leader, so in the end….what difference does it make?
Only this hate filled, terrorist supporting radical could get away with what she said. It’s partly because of her skin color, partly because of her sex, and mostly because of her “religion.” It’s absolutely sad that so many people in this Nation have become so weak, cowardly, and BLIND. If we do not stop anti-Semitic, anti-American, pro-terrorist radical monsters like Ilhan Omar our Republic is doomed.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a leftist lunatic who has been possessed by the demon political satanism of socialism. She’s is doing her best to possess others.
The people of the 14th Congressional District sent this brainwashed socialist stooge to our nation’s capital. She is there to help usher in the movement that will “legitimize” socialism within our Government. It seems that Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is a mindless buffoon who is clueless as to how capitalism actually works, and blinded to the fact that socialism will bring us to our knees. The fact is she is neither a buffoon or blind. She is well versed in the satanic gospels of Karl Marx and Saul Alinsky, and she sees quite well. She has the same vision as every other socialist, which is to be an elitist who sits on high through the work of those below her who struggle to survive. She understands that in order to bring this nation to its knees she must work to destroy our economy by expanding the welfare state, destroy our sovereignty by opening our borders, and destroy our future by brainwashing our youth with the political satanism of Socialism. The jokes about this “clown” are funny, but lest we forget how other movements in other nations got started, and where and who they led to; Stalin, Hitler, Mao, the Gulags, the Death Camps, The Great Leap Forward. She may look and sound foolish, but she is as dangerous as cyanide in kool-aid. The people of New York’s 14th District sent her, but if we don’t stand against her and others like her, we will all suffer her consequences.
Who is Trailer Shift [Taylor Swift] and why should I care?
Note to Oprah Winfrey; Racism will end when YOU stop being a racist.
ay-Z teaches our young men how to be foul mouthed thugs and his wife teaches our young women how to be hyper-sexual whores…..I guess y’all are okay with that and so is Hillary Clinton.
So is it correct that Beyoncé has been nominated for an award for singing Rock n Roll?” If this is true we have two problems.
First of all she doesn’t sing rock ‘n roll, and second…….SHE’S NOT A SINGER!!!!! #shesabootyshaker
Look at those words Time used. This leftist stooge [Brittney Griner] had all the freedom a human could want in The Untied States of America and literally REFUSED to stand up for it and did not appreciate it. Now locked up in a despotic nation she craves the very freedom she spat upon. I care not what fate she faces. Her poor choice got her locked up, and her arrogant ingratitude gets her no sympathy.
Lindsey Vonn is a CLASSIC liberal. She talks big political smack and when that big talk BLOWS UP in her face she plays the victim. Remember dummy, YOU started it with your anti Trump statement. Now that you lost don’t get mad that people are clowning you. You should have stayed in your lane and concentrated on skiing instead of taking digs at our PRESIDENT. 
I disliked and vehemently disagreed with “president” Obama. However, it NEVER made me disrespect this Nation or our FLAG and all it STANDS for. Unpatriotic nitwits like this MORON [Megan Rapinoe] are simply taking their chance to spit on the flag and all it represents. It’s not about PRESIDENT Trump, it’s about arrogance and disgusting disrespect, and the “lady” has that in spades. Perhaps she should have a long conversation with some of the ladies she is playing against. You know, the ones who come from nations without Title IX.
We’re going to defend women in this state. That means if you’re a man on Friday night, and all the sudden on Saturday, you feel like a woman, and you want to go in the women’s bathroom in the mall, you will be arrested — or whatever we got to do to you.
I don’t care how much you cut yourself up, drug yourself up and dress yourself up, you still either one of two things — you either a man or a woman.
It is absolutely AMAZING to me that people who know so little about their true history and REFUSE to acknowledge the pure sorry state of their current condition can get so excited about a fictional ‘hero’ created [Black Panther] by an agnostic Jew [Stan Lee] and put to film by satanic marxist. How can this trash, that was only created to pull the shekels out of your [slur] pockets, invoke any pride?
Half of black Democrats don’t realize they are slaves and don’t know who their masters are. The other half don’t care.
I Absolutely Want To Go Back To The America Where Women Couldn’t Vote.
The only thing worse than a woman who doesn’t know her place, is a man who doesn’t know his.
We’re called to be led by men. When it was time to face down Goliath, [He] sent David. Not Davita, David.
Feminism was planted in the ‘Garden,’ watered by the devil, and is harvested and sold by his minions.
If I had all the power right now, let’s say I was the governor and had a willing legislature, we could pass a bill saying you can’t have an abortion in North Carolina for any reason.
Once you make a baby, it’s not your body anymore – it’s y’all’s body.
In those [elementary] grades, we don’t need to be teaching social studies. We don’t need to be teaching science. We surely don’t need to be talking about equity and social justice.
Will somebody please explain to me the purpose of homosexuality? … What does it create? It creates nothing.
I remember when children knew their place, and when they got out of place and got sassy, ADULTS would put them back into it.
I’ll tell anybody, I got them AR-15s at home and I like to go target shooting and all that. That’s not what they’re there for. I’m not ashamed to say it, I’m probably not supposed to say it, but I’m gonna say it anyway — I got them AR-15s in case the government gets too big for its britches. Cause I’m gonna fill the backside of them britches with some lead.
We [Robinson paid for his wife’s abortion] allow the murder of the most innocent human beings on earth and we do it with impunity. If we do not purge abortion from our shores for the cause of life the same way we purged slavery for the cause of liberty, this nation will not continue to stand.
God sent women out … when they had to do their thing, but when it was time to face down Goliath, [He] sent David. Not Davida, David. In the Bible, God sent Moses to lead the Israelites. “Not Momma Moses,” he said. “Daddy Moses.”
I have found that women in general don’t like to be out-talked. When you go out in groups, it often comes down to discussions, women on one side, men on the other. And back then, I’d be just hurling it. Often women would get quite angry. They love to be able to talk a man into submission. And with me, it never happens. They can’t do it.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.
Florida, Texas, and other Republican-controlled states are considering giving public school access to preachers under the guise of them providing counseling services. The Satanic Temple, recognizing that doing so is a serious violation of the separation of church and state, has asked the state of Florida to allow their chaplains to be part of the program.
Two bills recently introduced in the Florida Legislature that would allow volunteer chaplains to provide counseling services in public schools have prompted The Satanic Temple to threaten legal action if its members are barred from participating.
Senate Bill 1044 and its companion House Bill 931, which already passed the Florida House of Representatives last month, would also mandate that principals in schools with volunteer chaplains tell parents about it and offer them a list of the volunteers, all of whom will be subject to a background check.
Parents will be allowed to choose from the list of chaplains and allow their children to receive counseling with written permission, though representatives from The Satanic Temple have expressed a desire for their chaplains to be included in such offerings.
“Any opportunity that exists for ministers or chaplains in the public sector must not discriminate based on religious affiliation,” Penemue Grigori, who serves as The Satanic Temple’s director of ministry, told The Tallahassee Democrat.
“Our ministers look forward to participating in opportunities to do good in the community, including the opportunities created by this bill, right alongside the clergy of other religions.”
Lucien Greaves, co-founder of The Satanic Temple, spoke out against what he described as the legislation’s attempt to allow a back door for religious instruction and “proselytizing evangelism” in Florida’s public schools, according to Fox News Digital.
“In an effort to dismiss concerns about bringing religious viewpoints into schools, advocates for chaplain bills have a scripted response that insists their interest is in merely providing additional ’emotional support’ for potentially troubled youth,” Greaves told the outlet.
“If that were true, they could simply be calling upon volunteers who hold licensure as counselors to offer their services in the schools in their communities.”
Greaves also said that school districts can expect legal action if satanic priests are prohibited from participating in the chaplain program, which would go into effect on July 1 and largely be left for individual districts to govern, according to local Fox 35.
“They should also not want to waste public funds on a lawsuit that’s certainly going to lose because of some superfluous effort to put chaplains in schools on a false rationale,” Greaves told the outlet.
Florida state Sen. Erin Grall, a Republican who represents Vero Beach, did not immediately respond to The Christian Post’s request for comment but said she is concerned about the potential of satanic priests taking advantage of the legislation she sponsored.
“But I think that as soon as we get in the middle of defining what is religion and what is not, and whether or not someone can be available and be on a list, we start to run up to constitutional problems,” Grall said, according to The Tallahassee Democrat.
“So I think that us making sure that it’s open and available to anybody who wants to put themselves through the background screening, and let parents know they’re available for that service, is the best way to go,” she added.
The Satanic Temple, of course, doesn’t want chaplains in schools, at all. Only educated, credentialed people should be counseling students, especially during times of grief and tragedy. Why is it that Evangelical preachers rush to schools every time there is a mass shooting or other tragedy that causes the loss of student or teacher lives? What makes them qualified to provide counseling services?
Most Evangelical preachers are not educated, licensed counselors. Oh, they took a class or three in college about counseling or the evils of secular counseling or nouthetic (Bible-based) counseling, but lack the comprehensive training licensed social workers and psychologists have. Simply put, they are not qualified to be school counselors/chaplains.
The bills in Florida and Texas are attempts to infiltrate public schools with Evangelical dogma; to evangelize children and indoctrinate them in the teachings of the Bible. Much like Lifewise Academy’s infiltration of public schools with their Evangelical release time program, the goal is evangelization, and not genuinely helping people who are grieving or have other mental health needs. Certainly, some preachers are qualified to provide such services, BUT, it must be made clear to them that they must check their theology at the door. Help can be provided without preaching, quoting the Bible, or invitations to church on Sunday.
Please see:
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.
Over the past seventeen years, I have received thousands of emails, phone calls, text messages, social media messages, and snail mail letters from (primarily) Evangelical Christians. When I first started blogging in 2007, I decided to use my real name and make myself available to anyone who wanted to contact me. I have, on occasion, regretted doing so.
The majority of the emails and messages I receive are hostile, violent, and argumentative. Laden with personal attacks, these contacts are meant to judge, correct, belittle me, or put me in my place. Seventeen years of such emails and messages have left me largely immune to such ill-bred, brutish behavior. I read every email I receive, answering them as I can. (Currently, I am three months behind on answering emails.) I pay close attention to emails from family, friends, former parishioners, and regular readers of this blog. I feel a sense of obligation to these folks, so I try to prioritize their correspondence.
Some emails and messages warrant a public response, as I will give with the message I received today. The following Facebook Messenger message came from a man who was a teen and young adult in two different churches I pastored: Emmanuel Baptist Church in Buckeye Lake, Ohio (1981-1983), and Somerset Baptist Church in Mt. Perry, Ohio (1983-1994).
I am generally polite and patient in my responses to former church members. I am well aware of how my story and deconversion trouble and upset people who once called me “Preacher” or “Pastor Bruce.” They know me from a time and place long ago that is very different from where I am today. Not morally or ethically; not personality-wise. I was twenty-four years old when I met Terry; now I am almost sixty-seven. Lots of water under, over, and around the metaphorical bridge, but to a large degree I am the same person today as I was forty-plus years ago. I am a kind, decent, and thoughtful man. Not perfect. I can be temperamental, argumentative, and opinionated, but I have become less so, telling Polly, my partner, the other day, in a moment of deep, dark depression, that most of the things I obsess over or that aggravate me really don’t matter. The danger, of course, for depressives, is “nothing matters” can quickly turn into suicide. That, so far, has not been the case for me, but I do recognize that not much matters beyond the people we love.
In the early days of this blog, I took to heart the nasty, hateful things Evangelicals said to me. Their words caused deep wounds, so much so that I would stop blogging. I would delete my social media accounts and even change my email address so people couldn’t contact me. Thanks to extensive and ongoing therapy, I have (most of the time) learned to handle such people. I no longer let people such as Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, Elliot, Revival Fires, Silence of Mind, and other caustic, abrasive so-called Christians like them get under my skin. I don’t know them; they don’t know me; their words really don’t matter. They can go fornicate with themselves for all I care. They are little more than pissants, quickly dispatched with little thought or concern. However, when it comes to people with whom I had a significant personal relationship, I try to hear them out and respond accordingly. So it is with Terry, whose message I respond to below.
Here’s what Terry wrote to me (all spelling, grammar, and punctuation in the original):
Hey Bruce I’m not sure why u unfriended me. I still respect you and love u in Christ. I’m saddened you turned your back on Christianity. You know what Jesus did for us on that cross. Maybe u unfriended me because my bible versus was talking to your heart and the adversary turned u against me. I’m praying for you and Polly. God Bless
Dear Terry,
You and I go way back. I first met you in the early 1980s when you were a sophomore student at Lakewood High School and I was the assistant pastor of Emmanuel Baptist Church in Buckeye Lake. My primary responsibility was working with junior high and high school students. I have many fond memories from the three years I spent at the church. As you may remember, the youth department quickly grew, reaching a high attendance of 90 people. The majority of church attendees were youth group participants. Unfortunately, when Polly and I left Emmanuel to start a new church in Somerset, attendance dropped by seventy percent. I always felt bad that this happened, but many of the teens had a close attachment to me. One of the reasons for this is that Polly and I, along with our two young sons and foster son (and later foster daughter) moved to Buckeye Lake to be close to the people we were pastoring. We moved into a ramshackle cottage a few blocks from where you lived at the time. Buckey Lake wasn’t the greatest place to live, but I felt it important to live with and among the people I ministered to. Polly’s mom refused to move from Newark to Buckeye Lake, not wanting to live around poor people or “welfare bums.” (Note for readers: Buckeye Lake, a community of around 3,000 people, was once home to an amusement park. Most of the housing was originally meant for seasonal use, but during WW II, much of it was converted to year-round use. Most of the homes were small, and of poor construction. The poverty rate was quite high compared to the surrounding area.)
You and I spent a lot of time together. You attended church every week, often bringing friends to the services. You were active in the youth group. I have many fond memories of you personally, and the youth group as a whole. I am sure you remember the lock-in we held at the Newark Y. You and your schoolmates worked hard to invite your unchurched friends and acquaintances to the event. If I remember correctly, more than 200 students bought tickets for the lock-in. The bring-your-own-team basketball tournament was the highlight of the night, for me.
So many memories . . . hunting rabbits together, the basketball program I sponsored at Jacktown Elementary School, playing tackle football and softball, attending your baseball games, and trying the best I could to help you navigate life. I performed your wedding ceremony — a double wedding at the Dawes Arboretum pond. After you got married and Polly and I moved on to a new church, you and your family attended Somerset Baptist occasionally, but distance prevented you from being a regular attendee, and eventually, we drifted apart. That said, I always considered you a friend.
I have given you this short history lesson to remind you of all the shared experiences we have. It would have been wonderful to talk with you about these things. I would have loved to hear about your family; your children and grandchildren. It would have been nice if you had asked me how I was doing, or inquired about Polly, our six adult children, or our sixteen grandchildren. Instead, you decided to skip the pleasantries and polite discourse and go on a religious rant, complete with a conspiracy theory about why I unfriended you on Facebook. You could have asked all sorts of questions about my deconversion, but you didn’t. Imagine if we had met face-to-face somewhere in Newark, after not seeing each other in over thirty years. Would you have said these things to me? Of course not. We would have talked about old times, sharing a warm embrace — a reminder of the friendship we once held dear. Evidently, all that matters to you is passing judgment on my life and putting in a word for Jesus.
Concerning Facebook, we may have been “friends,” but I don’t remember it. Two years ago, I pared over a thousand people from my friends list, choosing only to befriend people with whom I had regular interaction. I suspect you were one of many people I unfriended. I assure you that my unfriending you had nothing to do with your content or the fact that you posted Bible verses to your wall. What I find amusing (and oh so sad) is that you think that your posted verses were “talking to my heart,” and that I couldn’t handle the conviction, so I unfriended you. First, I don’t have a heart, and neither do you — at least not the one mentioned in the Bible. Second, why would words from an ancient religious text — one that I know inside and out and have read cover to cover numerous times and spent 20,000+ hours studying — bother me in the least? Third, I am an atheist, so I don’t believe in the existence of gods, including yours. It stands to reason, then, that I also don’t believe in the existence of “the adversary” (Satan). That you think I “turned against you” is silly. Few friendships last a lifetime, ours included. I haven’t talked to you in years, yet, suddenly, your Bible verse memes were used by Satan to turn me against you? Surely, you can see how silly this is. You are trying to judge my motivations when you have no reason or warrant to do so.
Terry, you say you love and respect me, in Christ. All I hear is the tired, worn-out Christian cliches I have heard countless times before. What in your message is loving and respectful? So many things you could have said or asked, but, instead, you chose to preach at me and remind me of what “Jesus did for us on the cross.” Did you think I didn’t know that already, or consider the fact that I don’t believe as you do; that, to me, Jesus is a dead man who lies buried somewhere in an unknown Judean grave?
People change. Beliefs change. I once was a Christian, and now I am not. If you really want to know why I am no longer a Christian, please check out the posts found here. Better yet, ask me. Don’t preach at me or condemn me. Ask . . . Better yet, dwell on the fond memories of yesteryear; of the times spent playing basketball or hunting rabbits; of the times we spent talking about life and the challenges you were facing. So many good things to remember and talk about. Why choose to preach at me about the one thing for which we have no common ground? Did you think your words would convict me of the error of my way or magically bring me back to Jesus? If so, you missed the mark. I am fully persuaded that the central claims of Christianity are untrue. If that means you can’t accept me as a fellow human being, someone who befriended you and always treated you well, so be it. I’m content to remember the times we once had.
I wish you and your family well, Terry.
Bruce
Other letters to former parishioners:
Dear Family, Friends, and Former Parishioners
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.
Repost from 2015. Edited, rewritten, and corrected.
Several years ago, Wefo, one of my readers, asked:
What do you make of 1 Corinthians 15, which is an early Christian creed held by the majority of biblical scholars (with a few exceptions like Robert Price) to be written no more than five years after Jesus’ death and it being held as proof of a belief in the resurrection? Also what changed your mind on the resurrection?
While the majority of biblical scholars think Paul was quoting an oral tradition in 1 Corinthians 15, it is not at all clear who Paul actually received this tradition from or whether it was some sort of vision. I certainly understand the importance of the gospel creed in 1 Corinthians 15 to those who base their entire worldview on the death and resurrection of Jesus from the dead, but this singular record is not enough to convince me that the claims the Bible makes for Jesus are true.
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; by which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: and that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: after that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
Paul says that the death and resurrection of Jesus were “according to the Scriptures.” What Scriptures is Paul referring to? There is no record of the death and resurrection of Jesus in the Old Testament, and 1 Corinthians was likely written several decades before the gospel of Mark. (Biblical scholars generally think Mark was the first written gospel, and Matthew and Luke use Mark as a source.) In Galatians 1:11-12, Paul states he received the gospel, not from any man, but by direct revelation from Jesus Christ. Which is it?
In his book, How Jesus Became God, Bart Ehrman details what we can historically know about the resurrection of Jesus:
In the previous chapter I argued that there are some things, given our current evidence, that we can not know about the resurrection traditions (in addition to the big issue itself—whether God raised Jesus from the dead): we cannot know whether Jesus was given a decent burial, and we cannot know, therefore whether his tomb was discovered empty. But what can we know?
We can know three very important things: (1) some of Jesus’s followers believed that he had been raised from the dead; (2) they believed this because some of them had visions of him after his crucifixion; and (3) this belief led them to reevaluate who Jesus was, so that the Jewish apocalyptic preacher from rural Galilee came to be considered, in some sense, God. [page 174]
While some of Jesus’ followers believed he had been raised from the dead, this doesn’t mean he actually was. Belief does not equal fact. People believe many things that are untrue. Did they believe his resurrection was bodily? Spiritual? Since Gnosticism deeply influenced the early church, perhaps Paul thought Jesus’ resurrection was spiritual. There is no way for us to know.
It’s been a long time since I looked at the historicity of the resurrection of Jesus. As I read various articles and blogs, I came away thinking that there’s no possible way to know, from history, if Jesus resurrected from the dead. If a person presupposes there is a God and that the Bible is God’s revelation to humanity, then they are likely to believe that Jesus resurrected from the dead. For those of us who are not Christian, we are left with determining whether the Bible accounts of the resurrection should be considered factual.
According to the Bible, Jesus was buried in a grave belonging to Joseph of Arimathea. There is no evidence for the existence of a man named Joseph or a place called Arimathea. Since Jesus was executed as a criminal, it is unlikely he was given a proper burial. The Godless Skeptic writes:
More interesting are the two things Dr. Ehrman says he has changed his mind on regarding what we cannot know about the resurrection. Like his colleague John Dominic Crossan, Professor Ehrman now believes that the tradition of an honorable burial of Jesus is doubtful. He makes note of the suspicious backstory of Joseph of Arimathea, a member of the same Jewish council that condemned Jesus to death, absent from the early Christian creeds, and a figure who is progressively portrayed across the four gospels as more and more of a sympathizer to the Christian cause. Citing a handful of ancient examples, he observes that Roman crucifixion victims were not usually given proper burials because humiliation was an important part of the practice, intending to deter potential criminals from committing acts of rebellion against Rome. Those who were crucified were often laid in common graves or left to decay and be eaten by scavenging animals.
It is sometimes remarked that Jesus was buried by Joseph in accordance with Jewish law, since the Sabbath was close at hand. Deuteronomy 21:22-23 gives instruction in this vein, but as Dr. Ehrman points out, it’s an open question of whether or not the Romans, particularly Pilate, would have respected such a rule. Though the Pharisees and the Jewish Sanhedrin had accused Jesus of blasphemy, the charges brought against him in front of Pilate were more political – inciting crowds, forbidding payment of taxes to Caesar, and claiming to be king (Luke 23:1-3). If Jesus was executed as an insurgent, under certain circumstances perhaps he would have been left unburied. If, however, he was executed in accordance with Jewish law, it’s not so obvious where he was buried. In a chapter of the anthology The Empty Tomb: Jesus Beyond the Grave, Peter Kirby writes that there is some evidence for a dishonorable burial tradition in passages like Mark 12:8 and Acts 13:27-29, which allude to Jesus being buried by his enemies rather than by his followers.
While I find all the back-and-forth debate over what the Bible does or doesn’t say about the resurrection of Jesus from the dead quite informative and entertaining, the reasons why I reject the resurrection of Jesus are quite simple.
First, there is no record outside of the Bible for the resurrection of Jesus. I find it astounding that no historian recorded anything about the life, execution, and resurrection of Jesus. We are left with the Bible and its accounts of the life of Jesus; accounts which contradict one another. The fact that they contradict one another is not proof that Jesus did not resurrect from the dead, but the contradictions do cause me to wonder if I should put much stock in what the Bible says.
Since history is silent on many of the “historical” events and figures in the Bible, why should I accept as factual what it says about the resurrection of Jesus? For me, accepting the resurrection of Jesus from the dead ultimately requires faith, a faith I do not have.
Second, accepting the resurrection of Jesus from the dead requires believing in miracles. According to John 14:12, Jesus said
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
According to the Bible, Jesus worked many miracles, including turning water into wine, walking on water, walking through walls, healing the sick, and raising the dead. Jesus told his followers that they would do greater works than he did. Yet, everywhere we look we see a lack of the miraculous. In fact, many Christians argue that the miracles of the Bible were only for a certain time, and once the canon of Scripture was completed, there was no longer a need for the miraculous. However, this isn’t what Jesus said. He clearly stated his followers would do greater works than he did, yet we have no historical evidence that his followers were in any way super-duper miracle workers. Where can I find a modern-day miracle worker? Where I can I go to see the dead raised back to life?
Third, if there is one thing I know it is that living people die and do not come back to life. Every time I drive by a cemetery, I see the evidence for once dead, always dead. This alone is sufficient evidence for me to say that Jesus lived and died, end of story.
But, Bruce it is possible that a miracle of some sort could happen. Sure, anything is possible, but now we are talking about probabilities. Based on the evidence, is it probable that humans die and come back to life? No. Once dead, always dead. Is it more likely Jesus lived and died or Jesus lived, died, resurrected from the dead, and is currently alive sitting at the right hand of God, the Father in Heaven? The latter requires a suspension of reason and the exercise of faith. I am not willing to do this. I know what I see with my eyes and what history tells me: once someone dies they stay dead. Since, outside of the Bible, we have no record of someone dying and miraculously resurrecting from the dead, it is safe for me to say that the resurrection of Jesus is improbable.
In the last part of Romans 14:15, Paul stated, “Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” After looking at the evidence, I am persuaded that Jesus did not resurrect from the dead. Whatever he may or may not have been, he was a man who lived, died, and was buried in a nondescript grave. Everything else Christians say about Jesus requires faith, a faith I do not have. When new evidence becomes available, I will look at it, but, for now, count me one who does not believe.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.
