Over the weekend, I received the following email from Marlene Strader.
Strader read all of two posts: Songs of Sacrilege: Need a Favor by Jelly Roll and Why I Hate Jesus before contacting me. She looked at the Why? page, but evidently didn’t have the finger strength necessary to click on any of the listed posts. So, her attack on my character is fueled by one Songs of Sacrilege post and a polemical post about why I hate Jesus — a post often misunderstood by Christians who lack comprehensive reading skills.
Here’s what Strader sent me:
Why all the hate? Hate is what’s wrong with the world. People selfishly worshiping themselves, their politics, and their own ideologies. So you’re an atheist? So you claim your own moral authority? Fine. What do you care what others believe if you believe in nothing? So what if you think they are wrong? You just come off like the hypocrites you despise. Full of hate, bitterness, and unforgiveness.
What hate, exactly, is Strader talking about? Maybe she confuses critique and challenge with hate. I don’t hate anyone. Life is too short to be hating people. I do, however, hate certain political, religious, and social beliefs. I make no apology for doing so. When beliefs cause harm — both psychological and physical — their proponents should expect pushback.
Yes, I am an atheist. Yes, I am my own moral authority, as are Christians and other religious people. Each of us decides what moral and ethical standard by which we will govern our lives.
Strader thinks I believe in “nothing.” Of course, I have all sorts of beliefs about everything from God and the designated hitter to socialism and which sex position I prefer. If Strader wants to know what I believe on any given subject, all she has to do is ask.
Had Strader bothered to read any of my autobiographical writing, she would have learned that I don’t care one whit about what people believe as long as said beliefs don’t materially affect me and my family. Unfortunately, Evangelicals, conservative Catholics, and Mormons are determined to turn the United States into a theocratic state; one where Jesus rules supreme and the Bible is the law of the land. History tells us that when church and state are one, blood is shed, people die, and freedoms are lost. So, as long as Christians try to turn America into a “Christian country,” I plan to be on the front lines pushing back. As long as Christians try to criminalize abortion, ban birth control, demonize LGBTQ people, ban books, force public schools to teach creationism as science, demand teachers daily lead students in Bible reading and prayer, and promote abstinence-only sex education, you can count on me to publicly and vocally challenge their anti-democratic ideologies.
I have thirteen grandchildren, and all but two of them attend local public schools. Their futures matter to me, as do the futures of my six children and their spouses.
Strader attacks my character, yet she provides no evidence for her accusations. None. Anyone who reads more than a few posts on this site knows that I am not “full of hate, bitterness, and unforgiveness.” Strader has built a strawman of the Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser in her mind. In doing so she has disobeyed God. Proverbs 18:13 says: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude.
A minute or so after I received Strader’s email, I received another message, this time from a Southern Baptist pastor:
From one evangelical pastor to one previous evangelical pastor, I stumbled on your page, and I think you are witty and funny. I thought a kind, humorous word might be a small counterbalance to all the irritating things you have received from evangelicals. Rather than “God bless you,” I’ll just wish you good luck. LOL. Take care, my friend:)
I will leave it to readers to decide which commenter best describes me.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the weekend, A Christian man by the name of John sent me the following email. My response is indented and italicized. All spelling and grammar in the original.
After reading about your “mind reading ability” and your becoming a non-believer I wonder what changed you.
I have no idea what John is talking about when it comes to “mind reading ability.” I was unable to find a log reference for John’s IP address — an oddity, to be sure — so I don’t know what he read on this site. I suspect he didn’t read any of my autobiographical writing. Had John shown a bit of curiosity, he would have found the WHY? page. The posts listed on this page would have answered most, if not all, of John’s questions about “what changed me.”
I knew Father Jack Baker for years and I have zero doubt he was wrongfully convicted by an extremely woke, political attorney general.
Joseph “Jack” Baker is a Roman Catholic priest who was convicted last year on sexual assault charges and sentenced to 4-15 years in prison. He was convicted by a jury of his peers. Were they all “woke?” Does John really expect anyone to believe that Baker is innocent; that he was convicted because a “woke” attorney general was out to get him? Baker was convicted of sexually assaulting a child under the age of thirteen. In other words, he is a pedophile.
Baker actually got off easy. As I wrote at the time: “Baker was given a lighter sentence because of all the “good” things he did as a pastor. Does anyone seriously think that this was the only time that Baker took advantage of a church minor? I mean, really? As has been shown in countless Black Collar Crime stories, judges often give offending clergy what I call the “preacher’s discount,” sentencing them to lighter sentences than non-clerics receive. Lost on judges is the fact that these men abused the trust their victims had in them, causing untold physical and psychological harm. They should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.”
John says he knows Baker. Unfortunately, not well enough to know that he was a child molester. None of us knows people as well as we think we do; even our spouses, children, and best friends. We all have secrets. Baker’s “secret” landed him in prison.
The bible warns in the end times even the elect will be deceived. I wish no contact with you except to plead that you look into the world-wide drive toward woke and the perversion of over 2,000 years of Christian beliefs.
The Bible does not say that in the end times the “elect” will be deceived. Matthew 24:24 says: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Note that it says, “if it were possible, they — the false Christs and false prophets — shall deceive the very elect.” The elect are those chosen IN Christ from before the foundation of the world. The elect will, without fail and at an appointed time, be saved, and they will persevere until the end. The elect might be deceived for a time, but they will always return to the faith. John might want to read the Bible again to see what it actually says about election and the elect.
In John’s mind, wokeness — which I doubt he could define — is some sort of evil that is destroying the world. Evidently, John is anti-progress. He likely pines for the good old days when Christianity ruled the roost; a time when women were keepers of the home; abortion was illegal; Blacks knew their place; LGBTQ people were still in their closets; teachers led public school students in daily Bible readings and prayers. John can’t stand equality, freedom, and justice for everyone. John doesn’t say exactly what he believes, but since I can read minds, I’m confident that what I have written here is correct.
I know two communist party members that are celebrating the “useful idiots” that now promote much of what is in our daily headlines.
John is one of those conspiracy theorists who believes that people in seats of powers are working towards turning the United States into a communist state. This, of course, is untrue. That two unnamed communists says otherwise means what, exactly? Nothing.
Perhaps John thinks socialism and communism are one and the same. They are not. The United States has always had socialist tendencies. John even benefits from socialist programs and laws. It is true socialism is making a comeback in the United States. I, for one, applaud this move towards a better future. Capitalism is a broken system. What rises out of its ashes remains to be seen.
I found God years ago, particularly living through four children dying in my hands. I know where they are and I know you have the option to learn why.
I have no idea what the backstory is about John “living through four children dying in his hands.” Certainly, the death of any child is tragic. That said, John does not know where these dead children are today. By faith, he believes they are in Heaven, but he has no evidence for this claim. None. All the evidence says that dead people stay dead, either buried in the ground or turned into ashes. Christians claim there is an afterlife, but the only evidence they provide for their claims are Bible verses. That’s it. Believing there is life after death in Heaven or Hell requires faith, a faith I do not have.
Further, historically, the Christian church has taught that people who die remain in the grave until the general resurrection of the dead. No one is currently physically in Heaven or Hell. All the Heaven and Hell nonsense spouted by primarily Evangelical preachers is feel-good nonsense meant to soothe the feelings of those who have lost loved ones. Heaven and Hell await, but not today.
John seems to think he can teach me a thing or two about these things. I await his lesson. 🙂
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.
The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.
One need only to study world religions to understand that religion is a powerful force in our world — for good and evil. Marx rightly compared religion to opium — a powerful narcotic used to relieve pain, both physically and psychologically. Religion, in all its forms, is used by humans to find purpose, meaning, peace, and happiness. Ultimately, people worship deities because doing so benefits them in some way or another. A good way to look at religion is from an economic perspective. Every religion has a cost attached to it. Sometimes those costs are clear: time, money, and commitment. Other times, religion extracts psychological or emotional costs. Some religions, such as Evangelical Christianity, Mormonism, and Jehovah’s Witnesses, require an abandonment of self and total commitment to God and the church. I spent fifty years in the Evangelical church. Twenty-five of those years were spent pastoring churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. I can’t even begin to calculate the cost of my devotion to the Evangelical Jesus. Much of my time and money was spent in devotion to a deity whom I believed was the one true God, the creator and ruler over all. I abandoned self as I “followed the Lamb of God.” I willingly sacrificed my marriage and family, living in poverty and doing without for my God’s sake. Why would anyone live as I did?
Serving Jesus was costly, but the benefits far outweighed the costs — or so I thought at the time, anyway. Through my religious beliefs, experiences, and practices, I found happiness, peace, and meaning. I had the privilege of preaching the gospel and teaching others the “truths” of the Christian Bible. I was loved and respected, and there never was a day when I didn’t feel God’s presence in my life. Oh, sometimes it seemed God was distant, but more often than not, the Christian deity was an ever-present reality.
It matters not whether Christianity is true; that its core beliefs are rational and reasonable. All that mattered, as a Christian, is that I thought these beliefs were true. Countless people believe all sorts of things that are untrue, but they believe them to be true, so in their minds, they are. While believing in the Christian God extracted from me a high cost, one I am paying to this day, for most of my life I believed the benefits of religious faith outweighed its costs.
Marx thought religion gave people false happiness. That said, he never underestimated its power, its ability to meet the deep needs of the human psyche. Atheists often wrongly believe that the solution to the ills of the world is for people to abandon their superstitions and embrace rationality rooted in reason, science, and intellectual inquiry. What atheists forget is that what humans want more than anything else is happiness. Until rationalists, freethinkers, and humanists show that their godless way of life leads to purpose, meaning, and happiness, we can’t expect religious people to buy what we are selling. We know that people don’t need to toke religious crack to feel happy and fulfilled, but we will never argue people into understanding this. Like it or not, feelings play a big part in the human experience. Life is short, and then we die. Religion offers a powerful drug that lessens the pain of that reality. We secularists must offer the same if we expect to neuter the effects of religion on our world.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Evangelicals believe the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God. It’s not A BOOK, it is THE BOOK, a book above all others. All other books, except the Bible, are the words of fallible men. The Bible, on the other hand, is the WORD OF GOD. Written by men as they were moved (led/directed) by the Holy Ghost, (2 Peter 1:21) every word of the Bible is true. Evangelicals confidently (and arrogantly) believe that when they quote the Bible they are quoting the very words of God. (2 Timothy 3:16) Thus saith the Lord, right? I have engaged countless Evangelicals on this blog over the past ten years. More than a few of them have told me, “Bruce, your argument is with God, not me! I just told you what God said!” In the minds of Evangelicals, quoting the Bible to me (or readers of this blog) is akin to God speaking directly to me. God said it, end of discussion.
Evangelicals believe that the Bible gives them everything they need pertaining to life and godliness. (2 Peter 1:3) The Bible, then, is a roadmap, a divine blueprint for life. The truths of the Bible are unchanging and eternal, relevant and true for every generation. Just as Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever, so is the Bible. (Hebrews 13:8) Thinking this way, of course, forces Evangelicals to defend all sorts of antiquated, immoral beliefs. If God said it, that settles it, right? And therein is the problem. If the Bible is “God speaking” then we humans better pay attention. However, if the Bible is the words of men, then we are free to accept or reject what is written. If the Bible is just a bunch of contradictory books written by mostly unknown ancient writers, it’s just bad literature. It’s time for a rewrite or perhaps a new Bible altogether. I would be glad to help write a new one. God saith to Evangelicals, “don’t be judgmental pricks and assholes. 🙂
Of course, Evangelicals are never going to admit that the Bible is anything but the timeless, precious words of God. Since that’s the case, I try to engage Evangelicals within the pages of the Bible; to challenge their interpretations; to call into question their application of the Bible.
Take the subject “peace.” The Bible says:
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. (John 16:33)
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. . . Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. (John 14:1,27)
Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4:6,7)
Now the Lord of peace himself give you peace always by all means. The Lord be with you all. (2 Thessalonians 3:16)
And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. (Colossians 3:15)
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (Hebrews 12:14)
Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them. (Psalm 119:165)
These verses, and others, explicitly teach that Evangelicals should be the most peaceful people on the planet. Psalm 34:14 says the followers of Jesus should “seek peace and pursue it.” If Jesus is the “peace” that passes all understanding; if the Holy Ghost lives inside of every Evangelical, giving them peace and comfort no matter what comes their way, then why are so many Evangelicals anything but calm, cool, and collected? Eighty-one percent of white voting Evangelicals voted for Donald Trump. Are they a peaceful lot? Picture January 6th, if you need your memory refreshed. Ponder, for a moment, the lives of Evangelical culture warriors, and how they rage against the “world.” Do they strike you as people who have “peace that passes all understanding?” Everywhere I look, I see hateful, angry Evangelicals. Evidently, they don’t love God’s law. If Evangelicals loved the law of God, Psalm 119:165 says that they would have peace and NOTHING would offend them. Tell me, do Evangelicals seem “offended” by virtually e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g these days? What happened to the peace of God which is to rule and reign in their hearts?
Nineteen years ago, Polly’s sister was tragically killed in a motorcycle accident. (Please see If One Soul Gets Saved It’s Worth It All.) Our family gathered at the hospital, hoping to find out about her husband, who survived the crash. I couldn’t help but notice the family patriarch (please see The Family Patriarch is Dead: My Life With James Dennis) pacing back and forth, praying and quoting Bible verses. In any other setting, such behavior might land you in the psych ward. This man was a well-known Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preacher, with, at the time, 40 years in the ministry. I was a Christian, at the time — having just left the ministry — and I remember thinking how odd his behavior seemed. What happened to God’s peace? What happened to nothing happening apart from God’s perfect, sovereign will? Shouldn’t the family patriarch, along with every Christian in that room, accept that Kathy’s death was all part of God’s wonderful plan for her life? After all, as a child, she asked Jesus to save her. She was now in Heaven, praising Jesus for his love, mercy, and grace. Shouldn’t this “fact” have given all of us “peace”?
I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years. I watched scores of Christians suffer and die. I watched others bear the death of loved ones, loss of livelihood, divorce, and numerous other tragedies. I can’t remember anyone who had “peace” like the Bible talks about. Instead, I saw a range of emotions, normal human expressions of pain, loss, and grief. Were these people bad Christians? Of course not. They were human. And if there’s one thing I know for certain, it is this: when life turns to shit and the walls crumble and collapse, atheists and Evangelicals alike respond the same way. The difference being, of course, that Evangelicals, thanks to their commitment to the Bible, are expected to rise above the struggles of life and have “peace.” That they don’t is not a reflection on them as much as it is on their beliefs.
Bruce, what’s your point? Damn, do I always have to have a point? 🙂 Yes, I have point. Evangelicals often come off as people who think they are above the fray; people who, thanks to Jesus, are immune to the struggles faced by the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world. When “life” dumps a load of shit on their doorstep, Evangelicals are expected to smile and claim VICTORY IN J-E-S-U-S! However, that’s not what we see. Instead, we observe people who are just like the rest of us. And THAT’S my point. The Bible says in Galatians 5:22,23, that the fruit (evidence) of the Holy Spirit (who purportedly lives inside every Christian) is (present tense) love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance. Based on the inviolate Word of God just quoted, how many Christians do you know who have the fruit of the Spirit? That’s a rhetorical question. The answer is NONE. Certainly, the fruit of the Spirit is desirable for believers and unbelievers alike. However, all of us are feeble, frail human beings. Whether we are atheist, agnostic, pagan, Satanist, Buddhist, Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Evangelical, or liberal Christian, it matters not. All of us are one and the same. Thoughtful humanists understand this. It is our shared humanity that binds us together. While “peace” is a desirable behavior, at least for me anyway, none of us should feel we have failed when life overwhelms us like a tsunami and we lose our shit.
Make sense? I hope so. Please share your sage advice and thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Several years ago, a grammar and spelling-challenged Evangelical man calling himself Doug Rowland sent me the following email:
I don’t know you neither have I heard of you . I just stumbled on this web-site . I know and you know that I know you are doing this for attention . You probley can’t preach very well and had no choice but to find something else to do . God is real and you know that there are no such thing as atheist and you are no acception .
Ah yes, a drive-by judgment of me as a person, my past, and why I continue to operate this blog. As an atheist, I have never, ever left such a comment on a Christian site. I consider such behavior childish, shallow, inconsiderate, rude, boorish, and quite humorous — as if by writing this email Rowland thought it would change me in any way. Not going to happen. If God can’t change me, the Doug Rowlands of the world have no chance. I am, and will remain until death, an atheist. Siccing God/Jesus/Holy Ghost/Local Evangelical preacher on me doesn’t work. I am a reprobate, one who has gone too far to turn back now. Of course, Rowland only read a couple of posts, so he likely doesn’t know these things. If he had done his homework, he might have decided not to send me this email. Or, perhaps, sending the email is all about him; a form of Evangelical masturbation; a feel-good exercise — I sure told THAT atheist! Regardless of Rowland’s motives, let me take a few moments to dissect his email.
I don’t know you neither have I heard of you.
You don’t know me and neither have you heard of me, yet your email suggests familiarity about what kind of man I am or was back in my preaching days. Do you make a habit of picking up strangers and having sex with them? Because, that’s what you are doing here. You made no effort to understand my story, choosing instead to read a few posts and then render what I am sure you think is God-inspired judgment.
For the record, I am actually quite well-known in some Evangelical circles. It’s uncommon for men with fifty years in the Christian church, including twenty-five years pastoring Evangelical churches, to walk away from everything and deconvert. It happens, but not very often. I suspect that the rarity of my deconversion is why so many Evangelicals are so hostile and caustic towards me. Unable to understand my story or fit it in their theological system, these servants of Jesus, instead, choose to attack my person, my character and, at times, my wife, children, and grandchildren. Every time this happens, I am reminded of how glad I am to be free from religious bondage.
I just stumbled on this web-site [sic].
Oh my God, I caused someone to stumble. Turn the light on, Doug, turn the light on!
I know and you know that I know you are doing this for attention.
Ah yes, another Evangelical mind reader who thinks he knows my “real” motivations for blogging; that the only reason I write is so people will pay attention to me. As with all writers, I do want my writing to be widely read, and I am grateful for the thousands of people who take the time to read what I have to say. In many ways, this blog is my church. The good news is that I can sit in my underwear, sip wine, and listen to Theory of a Deadman while I “preach” my sermons. Beats having to get all dressed up on Sunday and deliver a sermon that most hearers will ignore or forget by nightfall.
So, Doug is right. I write for attention, as all writers do. Who doesn’t want more readers, right? And preachers are no different. Who doesn’t want more congregants? Better to preach to a full house than an empty one.
I suspect Doug’s real motivation here is to impugn my character; to show that I am some sort of attention whore, or that I have no greater meaning or purpose other than whipping my penis out for all to see. I have long since stopped trying to convince people such as Doug otherwise. Believe what you will. How ’bout them Cowboys . . .
This blog, above all else, is one man telling his story. That’s how I started over ten years ago, and telling my story is still a prominent feature of this site today. Over the years, I have branched out a bit: Black Collar Crime Series, Sacrilegious Humor, Songs of Sacrilege, to name a few, but my desire remains the same: that through the telling of my story and critique of Evangelical Christianity, I help those who have doubts about Christianity or who have already left the Christian faith. My target audience has never been Christian zealots, people who are thoroughly committed to their beliefs. That’s why I don’t argue with or debate committed Evangelicals. They are free to read, comment, and move on. (Please see Comment Policy.)
You probley [sic] can’t preach very well and had no choice but to find something else to do.
Ah yes, the “real” reason I am no longer a pastor is that I couldn’t preach very well. Actually, according to people who heard me preach countless sermons, I was a very good public speaker. I worked hard on crafting my sermons, often spending days studying and writing them. I had a lot of failures as a pastor, but my preaching wasn’t one of them. I was passionate and thoughtful, especially as I got older. My goal was to get people to hear what I have to say and then act on it.
I was a full-time pastor, but I also worked outside of the church. All of the churches I pastored, save one, were comprised of middle-to-lower-income to poor people. The most I ever made in one year pastoring a church was $26,000. I pastored one church in southeast Ohio for eleven years. The most money I ever made in a year at that church was $12,000. I definitely was not in the ministry for the money. To help make ends meet, I worked outside of the church: managed restaurants, worked as a grant writer and building code inspector, sold insurance, pumped gas, worked as an auto mechanic, delivered newspapers, and worked as a stripper. 🙂
Of course, I never got to have an opportunity to see how much money I could make after I left the ministry. By then, I had been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, and I have spent the last two and a half decades dealing with a plethora of health problems — which started, by the way, while I was still in the ministry, just in case an Evangelical reader is inclined to suggest that my debility is either God punishing me or trying to get my attention. (I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia in 1997, eight years before I left the ministry.)
God is real and you know that there are [sic] no such thing as atheist and you are no acception [sic].
Doug believes there’s no such thing as an atheist; that deep down in their heart of hearts atheists KNOW there is a God; and not just any God, but the Evangelical God of the Protestant Christian Bible. When Christians take this tack with me, I often ask them to consider how they might feel if I belittled and denied their faith in Jesus. “Oh you are not a Christian. You know that there is no such thing as a Christian. You know in your heart of hearts that Allah is the one true God, and that all other Gods save him are false.” I suspect doing this would cause offense and anger, and rightly so.
When people tell me that they are Christian, I accept their statement at face value. In my world, it is good manners and respectful to accept people as they are; including how they self-identify. I just wish Christian zealots would grant atheists the same respect. When I say I believe, based on my studies and the extant evidence at hand, that there are no gods, there’s no reason whatsoever to not accept what I say at face value. It’s fine if you disagree with me or think I am headed for Hell. I have similar opinions about your beliefs. Getting along with each other requires we, at the very least, accept and understand the differences we have with others. This doesn’t mean we refrain from battling one another in the public square, but it does mean we allow each other to define our beliefs and label ourselves accordingly. Had Doug bothered to read more of my writing, he might have discovered that not only am I an atheist, I am also an agnostic, a humanist, and a democratic socialist. Unfortunately, many Evangelicals are lazy readers, choosing to render judgment after reading a few posts. Once they find out that I am an ex-preacher or an atheist, in their minds, that’s all they need to know. Judge Judy is ready to rule.
Doug, if you happen to stumble upon this post, I hope you will have learned a thing or two about the infamous ex-preacher-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser. If you still have your head stuck in the sand, I encourage you to read the ABOUT and WHY pages. These two pages will go a long way in curing your ignorance. Above all, I hope you will accept me as a fellow human being; godless to the core, but human nonetheless. I know your beliefs and worldview preclude you from believing atheists are real, but rest assured we are. Our numbers grow daily, and we are no longer willing to let Evangelicals define for us who and what we are. I hope, in the future, you will make an honest effort to understand people such as myself. In doing so, you might find we have a few things in common.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Note: I am well-schooled in all the various Christian beliefs on sin and salvation. The statements that follow generally reflect what Evangelicals believe. I know that not all Evangelicals believe these things without exception. Please don’t bitch, moan, and complain about my generalizations. I get it, you are special. You, and your denomination and church, are True Christians.®
Sin. According to Evangelicals, sin is transgressing against God; breaking the law of God. We daily sin in thought, word, and deed, preachers say. We commit sins of omission (neglecting to do something we should) and commission (doing things we shouldn’t). Evangelicals believe that all humans are sinners; that we were born with sin natures; that we don’t become sinners, we are sinners. The first human beings, Adam and Eve were created perfect, without sin. However, they ate the forbidden fruit from a tree and plunged the entire human race into sin. We have no choice in whether to be sinners. The first Adam sinned, and as his progeny, we are, by nature, sinners too.
According to Evangelicals, The Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God. Moses, the prophets, Jesus, the apostles, and Paul had a lot to say about sin; what human behaviors are sins against the God of the Bible. And for the past 2,000 years, preachers, evangelists, youth pastors, missionaries, and Sunday school teachers have been hitting believers over the head with the sin stick, reminding them this or that behavior will harm their relationship with God, bring his judgment upon their heads, and cost them loss of rewards in Heaven after they died. Preachers and their fellow congregants go out into the highways and hedges, reminding the unwashed, uncircumcised Philistines of the world that they too are sinners. And unless they repent of their sins and become Evangelical Christians, they will go to Hell/Lake of Fire after they die, facing eternal punishment and torture for their sins.
Sin is a religious construct used by Evangelical clerics and churches to induce guilt and fear in people. These same clerics tell fearful sinners that they have the solution for their sin problem: Jesus. If sinners will repent of their sins and put their faith and trust in Jesus, he will save them from their sins and give them eternal life in Heaven. In other words, sects, churches, and preachers invented a problem (sin) and invented a solution for their problem (salvation, new birth).
Salvation supposedly breaks sin’s hold on Evangelicals. No longer are they in bondage; no longer are they controlled by Satan and demons. Week after week, Evangelicals hear sermons about sin, grace, and victory in Jesus. Yet, despite all of this, most Evangelicals still feel fearful and guilty. They often wonder, “Am I right with God?” I spent my entire Christian life, as did my wife, feeling that we never measured up; that God was not pleased with us; that no matter what we did for Jesus and the church, it was never enough; that we fell short. So we did what all Evangelicals do: we tried harder. We read the Bible more; we prayed more; we gave more; we witnessed more; we devoted more and more time to loving and serving Jesus and faithfully, and selflessly working in God’s vineyard — the church.
I don’t remember a day when I didn’t feel less than. I certainly believed in and cherished the grace of God, yet I continually struggled with thinking God wanted more from me; that if I just committed more of my time, energy, talent, and money to God’s kingdom that I would one day arrive. Alas, there was always more to do. So many sinners who needed Christ. So many church members who lacked spiritual maturity. Why were they so lazy? Why didn’t they care about the things of God? With evil all around me, I believed I had to do everything possible to protect not only my wife and children, but also the church — the people who looked to me to teach them, shepherd them, and provide them with a shining example of a successful Christian.
Of course, I wasn’t a successful Christian. No Evangelical is. For all their talk about Jesus and deliverance from sin, Evangelicals sin just like the rest of us. Spend enough time in an Evangelical church, and you learn how to play the game. You learn the lingo. You learn that perception matters, so you present yourself as one who has found victory in Jesus, knowing that away from the church and behind closed doors, reality is much different. The Apostle Paul said that the Christian life was one of struggle with sin; not doing what we should; and doing what we shouldn’t. Evangelicals believe the Holy Spirit lives inside of them. He is their teacher and guide, giving them everything they need that pertains to life and godliness. Yet, Evangelicals also believe that they have a sin nature; that life is a constant struggle between the spiritual and the flesh. Jesus may have saved them, but sin remains.
Unfortunately, when Evangelicals deconvert, they leave the faith with minds filled with harmful beliefs. There is no Men in Black mind wipe when you deconvert. That’s why it often takes years to reprogram ourselves; to flush our minds of damaging beliefs and practices. I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years. I may have left Christianity in November 2008, but a lifetime of indoctrination and conditioning remained. My counselor told me years ago that my life was like an onion that had to be peeled one layer at a time. I am where I am today because of that peeling process. This process has been painful, with many tears and self-reflection. I suspect many readers know exactly what I am talking about.
Five decades of being hit with the sin stick caused a lot of harm. Just because I became an atheist doesn’t mean that a lifetime of being told this or that human behavior was a sin went away. Every aspect of my thinking had been corrupted by Evangelical Christianity. After leaving Christianity, I knew that I had to rebuild my life and thinking from the foundation up. This was not an easy process, and it continues to this day.
The first thing I did was get rid of all my Bibles, except for my leather-bound Oxford King James Version preaching Bible. Second, I stopped reading the Bible. It was part of the problem, containing many verses that were immoral and anti-human. As secular humanism took root in my life, I came to see how harmful to not only myself but to other people were many of the things I once believed. I already knew the central claims of Christianity could not be rationally sustained (please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense). My struggle was with morality and ethics. While certainly, the Bible contains some wisdom and moral teachings, most of it was irrelevant and contrary to modern sensibilities, so I shelved it, where it remains to this day.
The next thing I did was abandon the concept of sin. Sin was a religious construct, not a humanistic one, so I stopped using the word. Instead of judging myself and others through a sin paradigm, I looked at myself and fellow humans from a good and bad behavior perspective. I made lists on paper and in my mind of behaviors that I thought were good and bad. I also made a list of behaviors that are indifferent or situational. Life became much harder for me. I actually had to reason and think instead of just saying, “The Bible says . . . end of discussion.” Over time, I noticed my bad behavior list becoming smaller and smaller; that some behaviors could be wrong for me, but right for someone else. I concluded that I had been a judgmental prick most of my life; that the way forward for me was one of non-judgmentalism. I still struggle with being judgmental. Damn, if I don’t have an opinion about everything. 🙂
I certainly think certain human behaviors are bad. I subscribe to the notion that my goal should be love, kindness, and goodness; that human flourishing and care for other animals and the world we share is best. My focus is on what I can do to make the world a better place. A cheap cliche? Perhaps, but imagine if all of us focused on making the world a better place; on loving our neighbors as ourselves; on promoting love, kindness, and prosperity for everyone, and not just our tribe or country. Imagine if we stopped calling countless human behaviors sins punishable by death and eternal punishment. Imagine if we kept our noses out of the private lives of others; that who people love, marry, and fuck is none of our business.
The concept of sin and redemption categorizes and divides us; in and out, us vs. them; saved or lost; Heaven or Hell. Religion, especially Evangelical Christianity, is antithetical to unity and peace. Jesus himself was divisive:
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. (Luke 12:51-53)
How did you deal with the concept of sin, post-Jesus? Do you still struggle with “sin?” Please share your “sinful” thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Fundamentalist Christian Jeff Maples believes ALL life matters, and it should be protected at ALL costs. Here’s what Maples said on The Dissenter website in 2019:
Critics have argued that reimplanting a fetus from an ectopic pregnancy is a procedure “not known to medical science” and would place obstetricians and gynecologists in a dire situation for not performing an “impossible procedure.” However, the bill does not require doctors to be successful in the procedure, rather take all measures at attempting to do so. This would, in effect, advance the science behind the practice making it more likely to save lives in the future. When dealing with human life, it is imperative that all measures be taken to preserve it — an unborn child deserves no less than a two-year-old child or an adult. That’s the whole point of the measure.
I wonder if Maples really believes all life matters. I wonder if he is a pacifist or anti-capital punishment? I wonder if Maples opposed President Trump’s barbaric immigration policies; policies that led to the deaths of adults and children alike? Something tells me he is not as pro-life as he says he is. Most Evangelicals are schizophrenic when it comes to matters of life and death. Typically, Evangelicals, and their counterparts in the Roman Catholic church, only think all life matters before birth. After birth, humans are on their own. Well, that is until it comes time to die. Then Evangelicals show up to protest and criminalize end-of-life attempts to lessen suffering and pain. Humans must suffer to the bitter end. According to Evangelicals and Catholics, euthanasia is humans playing God, and that must never happen. In their eyes, physician-assisted suicide is murder.
Maples believes that every effort should be made to preserve life. No matter the cost or the outcome, life must be preserved. I am sure that Maples believes his anti-death viewpoint is noble. It’s not. Maples and others like him see no qualitative difference between a fertilized egg and a thirteen-year-old; no difference between a thirteen-week-old fetus and its mother; no difference between a teenager with a full life ahead of her and a ninety-year-old man who is nearing death. Such thinking, of course, is absurd.
I do my best to have a consistent life ethic. That said, all life is not equal, nor should every effort be made to preserve life. There is a qualitative difference between a fertilized egg and its mother. The fertilized egg represents potential life. It cannot live outside of the womb. That’s why I support the unrestricted right to an abortion until viability. Once a fetus is viable, then the mother and medical professionals must consider its interests along with that of the mother. When it comes to choosing between the fetus and the mother, the choice, to me anyway, is clear: the mother. Granted, if the mother is gravely ill with cancer or some other terminal disease, then consideration should be given to saving the fetus. Such decisions are never easy, but one thing is for certain: we don’t need Evangelicals and Catholics, their God, or Republican politicians deciding what should be done.
As someone who knows that he is on the short side of life, I don’t want the Jeff Maples of the world butting their noses into my end-of-life decisions or those of my family. I know how I want the end of my life to play out, as do my wife and children. I don’t want Christian Fundamentalists getting between me and my God. “Huh? Bruce, you don’t have a God.” Well, I do when it comes to this discussion. If Christians want to wallow in needless pain and suffering at the end of their lives — all so their mythical God will give them an “attaboy” — that’s fine by me. However, my triune God — humanism, science, and reason — doesn’t demand that I suffer unnecessarily; when it is my time to die it is okay for me to say, “No más.” I expect my doctors, Polly, and my six children to honor my wishes. I have seen far too many people endlessly and needlessly suffer, all so Jesus would be honored and their families would know that they fought to the end. I have watched countless dying people go through unnecessary, painful procedures and treatments, all so their spouses and children could rest easy knowing that every possible thing was done to preserve their life.
Sadly, many people ignorantly think that longevity of life is all that matters; that enduring surgery, chemotherapy, and/or radiation is worth it if it adds a few weeks or months at the end of their lives. Evangelicals speak of being ready to meet God. They sing songs about Heaven and preach sermons that suggest True Christians® yearn and long for eternal life in the sweet by and by. Yet, when it comes time to die, they are in no hurry to catch the next train to Glory.
Instead of focusing on the longevity of life, the focus should be on the quality of life. Sure, it is human nature to want to live as long as possible. But some things are worse than death. Often, the treatment is worse than a terminal disease. Personally, I would choose to live three months and then die, than to suffer the horrible side effects of end-of-life treatments that would often only add weeks or a few months to my life.
When it comes to dying, God is an unnecessary middleman. He and his Bible-sotted disciples get in the way of what is best for the sick and dying. Demanding that life be preserved at all costs only causes unnecessary pain and suffering. I know of Evangelical families who refused to let their dying loved ones die with dignity. You see, in their minds, all that matters is playing by God’s rules. All that matters is pleasing God. If their loved one has to suffer, so be it. God comes first. God mustn’t be offended, even if he prolongs the misery of the dying. Quite frankly, when it comes time for me to die, I don’t want religious zealots anywhere near me. I don’t need or want their prayers or admonitions. I want to be surrounded by my family. I want to hear them say, “Dad, it’s okay to let go.”
I have made my wishes known to my wife and children. Polly and I have spent a considerable amount of time talking about the various end-of-life scenarios; about what we want or don’t want to be done in the various circumstances we might face in the future. Both of us believe that quality of life is more important than extending life. We reject Jeff Maples’ notion that our lives should be preserved at all costs. We know that one day we will physically reach the end of the line. Hopefully, not anytime soon, but who knows (certainly not God), right? Better to have these discussions now than to have them under pressure or when one or both of us might not have the mental acuity to make rational choices.
I have specifically made plans to end my life when the quality of my life is such that I no longer want to live. I have talked to my counselor extensively about this. She is aware of my end-of-life plan. Of course, she encourages me to live, but she always knows that I am in decline physically; that it’s becoming harder for me to rise above my physical challenges. Most days, I am not suicidal, but I am acutely aware of what is happening to me physically. No cure or magical procedure is on the horizon, so I am “content” to face the limitations of mortality.
Not talking about death is not an option. Pretending we will live forever only leads to heartache when the lie is exposed. The moment we are born, we begin marching toward the finish line. While I would love to live to threescore and ten or fourscore, (Psalm 90:10) I know that’s unlikely. Probabilities come into play. All the positive thinking in the world won’t change the odds. I am grateful to have lived longer than my mom and dad. But it would be foolish of me to ignore the realities staring me in the face. Pretending that I am going to live to be a hundred helps whom, exactly? The Bible is right when it says, “Boast not thyself of to morrow; for thou knowest not what a day may bring forth.” (Proverbs 27:1) Solomon was spot on when he wrote:
Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry: for that shall abide with him of his labour the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 8:15)
You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.
Do you think life should be preserved at all costs; that every effort should be made to preserve life? How do you come to terms with your mortality? Do you prefer longevity of life over quality of life? Please share your astute thoughts in the comment section. If you are so inclined, please share approximately how old you are. I am interested in how age affects our end-of-life viewpoints.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Evangelicals are a contradictory lot. On one hand, Evangelicals will tell atheists to read the Bible, believing that if atheists will read the gospels, they will see the truth and be saved. Yet, when atheists read the Bible and reject its claims, Evangelicals are quick to say that atheists can’t “know” the truth because the “natural man understandeth not the things of God.”
This idea comes from II Corinthians 2:14:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The natural man is every human being except born-again people. Unsaved people cannot understand the “things of the Spirit of God — the Bible — because they are foolishness to them; neither can they know (understand) them because they are spiritually discerned. When sinners get saved, the Holy Spirit takes up residence inside of them. From that moment forward, the third person of the Trinity is their teacher and guide. When Christians read the Bible, the Holy Spirit allegedly teaches them the truth. (Please see Know-So Salvation.) If this is so, why, then, do no two Evangelicals believe the same thing? Why do Evangelicals disagree on even the basics: salvation, baptism, and communion? Why do Evangelicals, in particular, wage incessant internecine wars amongst themselves over this or that point of theology? Surely, if the Holy Spirit — God himself — lives inside every Christian and gives them everything pertaining to life and godliness, Christians would all believe the same things. After all, the Bible declares “One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.” That Christians can’t agree on the teachings of the Bible suggests that they are “natural men” too.
I was part of the Evangelical church for the first fifty years of my life. I attended an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) college in the 1970s, and pastored churches for twenty-five years. Reading and studying the Bible was central to my existence. All told, I spent over 20,000 hours with my nose in the Bible and theological books. My mind is filled with Bible information and knowledge, including countless memorized verses. In recent years, I have had problems with my short-term memory due to a plethora of health problems. But my long-term memory where all my Bible knowledge resides? Sharp as a tack. Yet, scores of Evangelicals have told me that the moment I deconverted, all my Bible knowledge magically disappeared; that I am now a “natural man” who does not and cannot understand the Bible. This, of course, is absurd. Evangelicals can provide no evidence for their claim other than a single Bible verse.
Yet, these same Evangelicals will turn right around and tell me that I should read this or that passage of Scripture; that if I have an open mind God will reveal the “truth” to me. Never mind the fact that I have read from and preached from the recommended Bible verses; that I know what they say and could preach a sermon from them even today.
The Bible is just a collection of ancient religious texts that have been translated from Greek and Hebrew. The Bible is not a magical text that uses ESP to send special messages from God to Christians. It is a book that can be read, interpreted, and understood by anyone — including atheists — with the desire to learn what it says. Evangelicals tell unbelievers that the Bible is impossible to understand without the aid of a supernatural being living inside of you, yet, at the same time, Evangelicals say this Bible is so simple that even a child can understand it. Which is it?
Most Evangelicals are Gnostics, at heart. They believe that their peculiar God, in the person of the Holy Spirit, gives them special knowledge that unbelievers cannot obtain or understand. This, of course, is untrue. Anyone can understand the Bible if they put their mind to it.
For Evangelicals who object to the claims I have made in this post about the Bible and knowledge of its teachings, I challenge them to ask me any question about the Bible. Put together a test that will measure my Bible knowledge and that of the atheists and agnostics who read this site. I’m confident that I and my merry band of godless heathens will be able to pass this test. Sure, many atheists aren’t all that knowledgeable about the Bible, but neither are a lot of Christians. That said, countless former pastors, evangelists, youth directors, worship leaders, and college professors read my writing; many of whom have college degrees and extensive knowledge of the Biblical text and Christian theology. I have no doubt they will be able to pass any Bible test put before them.
Or, you can keep saying, “Bruce Gerencser doesn’t know anything about the Bible.” No one believes you, and I suspect that deep down in that mythical heart of yours, you don’t believe it either.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Today, I received the following email from an Evangelical man named Alex. My response is indented and italicized and indented. All spelling and grammar in the original.
I’ve read a lot of your site over many months, it is certainly an interesting read, though to a Christian, very sad to hear.
As is my custom, I checked the server logs to see how many times Alex visited this site and what he read. According to the logs, Alex, who hails from England, visited the Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser fifty-three times. Not bad, considering the fact that most Evangelicals who leave preachy comments or send me preachy emails read one or two posts before sharing with me what the Lord laid upon their non-existent hearts.
I have written almost 5,000 posts since December 2014. I highly doubt that Alex has read “a lot” of my writing. Some, a handful, yes, but “a lot,” no. I do appreciate that Alex read what he did. I’ll give him a gold star for that. However, as readers shall see below, Alex “read” but he didn’t comprehend or understand. Despite investing time in reading my writing, he learned little to nothing about me; what I believe; how best to interact with me. Instead, Alex did what Evangelicals do: attack my person by calling me names, attacking my motives, and threatening me with Hell.
It reminds me greatly of Judas, who walked so closely with the Lord yet wanted out and you know the rest. Yet when he got what he thought he wanted, freedom! and a bit of money, He found that actually none of that mattered really. He gave up heaven for what? nothing.
Alex sees me as a Judas-like betrayer of Jesus. Ouch, right? Alex says Judas betrayed Jesus because he wanted freedom and money. In the end, Judas found out that these things didn’t matter. He gave up eternal life in Heaven, for what? Nothing.
First, Judas was preordained to betray Jesus. The Bible calls him the “son of perdition.” Judas had no say in the matter. Jesus was a lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. God’s plan to redeem humanity was concocted in the mind of God before Judas, Adam, and Eve were created. I am somewhat surprised that Alex doesn’t know these things, especially since, based on a Google Search, he is a preacher.
Second, we really don’t know anything about Judas. All we have are stories written by unknown authors 30-90 years after they allegedly occurred. Remember, we have no writings from Judas, no evidence that he even existed. All we have are the words of men who, let’s face it, needed a scapegoat for what happened to Jesus. Thus, Judas has become a villain in the minds of twenty centuries of Christians; right up there with the man, the myth, the legend: Satan, aka the Devil, aka Lucifer, aka Beelzebub, aka Slewfoot. It is in this vein of thinking that Alex sees the Evangelical-turned-atheist Bruce Gerencser.
Did I betray Jesus for freedom and money? Alex thinks so. Is it a betrayal to walk away from Christianity? Is it a betrayal when one realizes that Jesus is not who he claimed to be? Is it a betrayal to realize that the central claims of Christianity are untrue? Is it a betrayal to file for divorce from an abusive spouse? I think not. I devoted my life to following and serving Jesus. Yet, when I needed him the most; when I needed him to quell my doubts, questions, and fears, Jesus was AWOL, saying not a word to me. And so I started taking a close look at our marriage, finding out that I was married to deceiver, liar, and myth. If anybody is a “Judas” in this story, it’s Jesus.
Alex suggests that I left Christianity because I wanted freedom and money. On the former, he is right. I wanted the freedom to live my life as I pleased. I wanted the freedom to enjoy life to its fullest, free from the constraints of Evangelical rules, regulations, and standards. Of course, Alex will say, SEE! SEE! Bruce wanted to live a licentious life, so he divorced Jesus and ran headlong into the loving arms of hedonism. Of course, that’s not what happened. I have the freedom to do what I want, but, as a humanist, my life is governed by humanist ideals. I have moral and ethical values that matter to me. In fact, I am a far better Christian than many Evangelicals I know. Sure, I love to say fuck, enjoy good whiskey, watch R-rated movies on HBO, and have experienced making love in other than the missionary position for the purpose of procreation, but based on my good works, I am a pretty good Christian atheist. 🙂 All praise be to Loki!
On the latter — money — Alex is right too. We make more money today than we ever did in the ministry. However, contrary to what another Evangelical zealot recently told me on Facebook, we are not affluent. In fact, we are in the bottom quartile in income, especially when our exorbitant medical costs are taken to account. We don’t live in poverty, nor are we poor. However, if Polly lost her job or the U.S. government stopped paying social security recipients, we would be bankrupt in a month or two.
What is great about our post-Jesus financial position is this: we are free to spend our money any way we want. We no longer have to pay the Evangelical God taxes: tithes and offerings. We no longer have to cough up money every time our pastor — that was me — cooked up a fundraising scheme. We no longer have to “think of the missionaries” or support parachurch ministries. We are free to be as selfish or gracious as we want to be. We no longer feel “conviction” over spending money on ourselves. We now can enjoy a nice meal and a night out on the town without worrying about WWJD.
Alex seems to think that Christian bondage is a selling point. It’s not. I heard the call of secularism: “You are free, cheezy bread. You are free! Go! Go!” 🙂 Why in would I ever want to return to the bondage of Egypt? I have found the Promised Land, and I have no intention of returning to the intellectual equivalent of eating three meals a day of garlic and leeks.
Video Link And you, having walked so closely for so many years almost with the end in sight decide to betray the Lord.
Alex doesn’t seem to value intellectual integrity. People believe what they believe because they can’t do otherwise. Surely Alex knows that I left Christianity for intellectual reasons. I am an honest man. When I concluded in 2008 that the Bible was not inerrant or infallible; that the central claims of Christianity could not be rationally sustained, what did Alex want me to do? Fake it, until I make it? Faith it? What kind of person does Alex think I am? I am a man of principle and conviction. All Alex needs to do is provide sufficient evidence for the existence of the Evangelical God and the supernatural claims Christians make for Jesus and the Bible, and I will believe. Better yet, skip the evidence. All Jesus has to do is heal me, and I will believe. He allegedly healed people 2,000 years ago. Surely he can do it today! Is he not the same YESTERDAY, TODAY, and FOREVER? Think of how many people could be won to Jesus if God miraculously healed me and gloriously saved me? Yet, scores of Evangelicals have prayed for me, without success. Either God isn’t hearing their prayers, I’m more powerful than God, or he doesn’t exist. My money is on the latter.
I don’t know how many people put their faith in Jesus due to your preaching over many years, but it must be over 100 souls! Wow! Bruce, how many Christains could ever say that? Very few indeed! Imagine the blessings to be given to you in heaven ! yet you seem to want to throw it all away! I cant understand what for?
In one church alone, six hundred people made public professions of faith. Throw in a few hundred more over the course of twenty-five years in the ministry, and almost one thousand sinners have been saved through my preaching. Not bad, right? According to Alex, God would give me blessings (rewards) in Heaven after death if I would only come back to Jesus. I am throwing all these rewards away, and for what? In Alex’s Bible-sotted mind: nothing.
What, exactly, are the rewards I will receive? A new BMW? A yacht? A hundred-foot-long closet of color-matched clothing, complete with color-matched socks and shoes? No, according to the Bible, I will be rewarded with crowns. Woo Hoo, right? I guess I will be able to show off my crowns to all the Alexes in Heaven; those who didn’t win as many souls as I did? Nope. The Bible says that believers will cast their crowns at the feet of Jesus, giving him all the praise and glory for their good works. Jesus is like the boss at work who does none of the work but takes credit for yours.
You say when I die, thats it, the end. Yet how to you KNOW that? What are you basing this assumption on?
How do I know that when I die that will be the end of life for me? No Heaven, no Hell, no afterlife; just eternal darkness and nothingness. My view is not an assumption, it’s a fact. All the extant evidence available to me says that once people die, they stay dead. Five miles from my home lie my mother and grandmother in Fountain Grove Cemetery. Six miles to the south in the Sherwood Cemetery lie my dad’s parents, several aunts and uncles, and a cousin. These graves are an ever-present reminder to me that when people die, they stay dead.
If Alex has empirical evidence for his claim that there is life after death, he should provide it immediately. However, he has no such evidence. All he has are verses in an ancient religious text, faith, and feelings. That’s it. Does Alex expect me to believe in the existence of life after death, all because the Bible says so, or that he “feels” eternal life is a thing? Sorry, but that’s not how I roll. Want to convince me that Heaven, Hell, and the afterlife exist? All you have to do is provide me with sufficient empirical evidence that your claims are true.
You talk on and on about what you dont believe in, yet very little about what you now actually DO believe in.
Evidently, Alex hasn’t read any of the posts where I talk about my current beliefs; about my commitment to democratic socialism and the humanist ideal. That said, the focus of my writing is on telling my story, helping people who have questions and doubts about Christianity, and critiquing Evangelicalism. This has been my focus for the past fifteen years. I do, on occasion, write about politics, especially my progressive view of the world.
On the ABOUT page, I sum up my view of the world this way:
“You have one life. There is no heaven or hell. There is no afterlife. You have one life, it’s yours, and what you do with it is what matters most. Love and forgive those who matter to you and ignore those who add nothing to your life. Life is too short to spend time trying to make nice with those who will never make nice with you. Determine who are the people in your life that matter and give your time and devotion to them. Live each and every day to its fullest. You never know when death might come calling. Don’t waste time trying to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Find one or two things you like to do and do them well. Too many people spend way too much time doing things they will never be good at.
Here’s the conclusion of the matter. It’s your life and you best get to living it. Someday, sooner than you think, it will be over. Don’t let your dying days be ones of regret over what might have been.”
I believe in love and kindness. I believe in family, friends, and making the world a better place. I believe in enjoying what time I have left on earth, spending it with Polly, our children, our grandchildren, and people who matter to me. I believe in the Cincinnati Reds and the Cincinnati Bengals. I have great faith that one day the Reds or the Bengals will win a world championship.
Of course, all these things are secondary to Alex. What matters to him the most is life to come, and not the here and now. I am not willing to gamble the present away in the hope that I will receive some sort of divine payoff after death; a payoff no one has verifiably received.
Evoulution? then how did sex and reproduction start happening? how did life even start in the first place? It is impossible, no matter how much time you give it…..something cannot appear from nothing.
Alex is not a scientist and neither am I. I know enough to say that creationism is nonsense. Everything that science tells us about our biological world and the cosmos suggests that life and the universe did not come into existence in six literal twenty-four days; that Adam and Eve were not the first humans.
I wonder if Alex knows that scientists (or atheists) don’t think something came out of nothing. Surely, he knows this, right? Surely, he has read the countless science articles on the Internet that explain the existence of the universe? Surely, he has read books by actual scientists; men and women who have spent their lifetimes trying to understand our world? Surely, he doesn’t think Genesis is a science textbook?
I suggest Alex start here:
Video Link Yet there is still time for you to come back to the Lord!
How can Alex know this? Does he know whether I am one of the elect? Many Evangelicals have told me that I am an apostate or a reprobate — people beyond the saving grace of God. How could Alex possibly know the state of my soul? Maybe I am still a Christian, as many Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB) allege; once-saved-always-saved, headed for Heaven regardless of Alex’s pronouncements about my eternal destiny. Imagine Alex having to spend eternity with me as his next-door neighbor. 🙂
Don’t you miss walking with Him? Talking to Him? Being blessed by Him?
NO, NO, and NO. I Corinthians 13:11 says: When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
I grew up, putting away childish thoughts about a magic man in the sky pulling the strings of my life. Instead of praying to a deity that doesn’t exist, I talk to real people, including myself. 🙂
The Christian life as you know is a battle, and the dark side has deceived you, please turn back to the Lord while you still can. He loves you and is waiting to welcome you back.
The Christian life is a battle because Evangelicals believe the words of the Bible are true; they believe the words of preachers are true. If they would but weigh the words of the Bible and the words of preachers in the balance, they would find them wanting.
While Alex doesn’t threaten me with Hell, the threat is implied: “turn back to the Lord while you can.” If you don’t, God is going to torture you in the Lake of Fire for eternity. Such threats don’t work with me. All they do is remind me that the Alexes of the world believe in a monstrous deity; one unworthy of my time or worship.
Alex can’t possibly know if God loves me or desires to welcome me back to the club. It always amuses me when Evangelicals say Jesus is waiting on me; that he is powerless to save me; that it is up to me to excercise my will and return to the cult. Has Alex not read what the Bible has about the sovereignty of God, God’s decrees, and the inabiity of man to save himself? My salvation rests solely in the hands of God. He knows where I live. He knows my cellphone number and email address. If you are reading this, Jesus, let’s talk. Please stop having Alex and his merry band of cultists contact me. Have you read the things they say, Jesus? Why would I ever want to buy a new Kirby vacuum? 🙂
Alex suggests that I have gone over to the dark side. Only in Evangelical Christianity is intellectual light darkness. Only in Evangelical Christianity is freedom bondage. There’s nothing I can do for Alex other than to pointedly and honestly respond to him. He arrogantly believes he is right. That’s what certainty does, it breeds arrogance. Until Alex can consider the possibility that he could be wrong; that his beliefs are not as sure and steadfast as he thinks they are, there’s not much I can do other than recommend that he read one or two of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the history and nature of the Bible. Only then will there be a chink in his Evangelical armor; one through which a bit of knowledge and understanding will shine through.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I responded to a long comment from an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Christian named Gary Richards. (I have since learned that his real name is Gary MacKay.) You can read my response to MacKay here.
As is my custom, I sent MacKay an email with a link to my post. MacKay responded to my article today with what follows. My response is indented and italicized. All spelling and grammar in the original
It was a nice try Bruce, we both know that anyone can defend any which way side they want to but there is only one truth.
Much like Dr. David Tee, MacKay thinks there is one truth — his. This is a common trait among IFB adherents. Believers are encouraged to be certain in their beliefs, even though they lack sufficient education and knowledge about a given subject. They know what they know, but they don’t know what they don’t know. Certainty breeds arrogance. I’m right, you’re wrong, end of discussion, the thinking goes. That’s why it is almost impossible to have a profitable discussion with an IFB Christian. MacKay didn’t come to this site to engage is thoughtful discussion. He was here to preach and condemn.
MacKay’s behavior doesn’t surprise me. Scores of like-minded people have come before him. MacKay is deeply immersed in IFB culture. He thinks it is normal to preach AT people who disagree with you, uttering threats of judgment and eternal damnation. At some level, I feel sorry for the MacKays of the world. I was once just like them. I understand firsthand the cost of needing to be right all the time. It is a wearying way to live.
Sure, yeah, at age 15 you started, went to IFB schools, started churches & preached for all those years yet this goes on with so many and as you know Christ will say on that day “I never knew you”.
MacKay continues to delegitimize my story, suggesting that I was a fraud, just like so many other preachers today. He reminds me that one day I will stand before Christ and be cast into utter darkness.
He is alluding to Matthew 7:21-23:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
As a proponent of IFB soteriology, MacKay believes that a person is saved by assenting to a set of theological propositions; that once a person is saved, good works play no part in the believer’s continuing salvation. Of course, I was saved in the IFB way. The difference, of course, is that I actually believed good works matter. I actually believed that faith without works is dead; that Christians will be judged one day, not on their mental assent to Bible facts, but by their works. Jesus made this clear in Matthew 25, and James made it clear that believers show their faith by their good works.
MacKay’s bankrupt gospel is why IFB churches are filled with people who think they have no obligation to love their neighbors as themselves; that nothing they say or do will keep them out of Heaven. Such people, if there really is a God, as portrayed in the Bible, are in for a rude awakening someday. My reading of the Protestant Christian Bible suggests that God really does care about how believers live; that good works matter.
In your case you just plain walked away and are essentially an anti-christ. If you really had fruit of your salvation & the Holy Spirit put His seal on you we both know you wouldn’t be where you are today. They must have left out the part that works can’t save you while you attended your education.
MacKay didn’t read any of my autobiographical writing, so he really doesn’t know or understand my story. Had he bothered to read my story, he would have learned that I didn’t one day, out of the blue, walk away from Christianity. I spent several years agonizing over my beliefs, worried that I was losing my faith. I desperately want to remain a Christian. After all, I had been part of the Evangelical church for fifty years. I pastored churches in three states for twenty-five years. My whole life and that of my family revolved around loving, following, and serving Jesus. I was all in, as were Polly and our children (not that they knew anything different). Walking away from all that I ever knew was hardly inconsequential. I shed many a tear over what was lost, much like someone who went through an acrimonious divorce.
According to MacKay, I am an anti-Christ. His goal is to demean and slander. He returns to his claim that I never was saved, and then adds that I never understood the Christian gospel. MacKay knows better — where can I take the gospel test? — but he’s not interested in interacting with me fairly and honestly. All that matters to him is discrediting me, painting me as an anti-Christ, false prophet, and tool of Satan. All MacKay has done is reveal to fair-minded people that he is a “tool.”
I have a hard time believing that you actually get death threats or any threats at all by Christians, possibly by those that were in your same situation where you were pushed into a Christian lifestyle & never given a choice to truly choose. There are many such as yourself that got hold of the wrong spirit as you yourself demonstrate & profess. This has always been even though as we ramp up to that day there is more & more as we have been told. It isn’t a surprise. I would like to think there is hope for your surrender to Christ even though your work is Satanic & has led many astray, but even though, Paul was forgiven & became the apostle to the gentiles.
MacKay concludes his screed by calling me a liar; that my claims of death threats or any threats at all are lies, lies, lies, and more lies. Long-time readers know firsthand the threats I have received over the years. One IFB believer threatened to slit my throat; another threatened to assault my daughter with Down syndrome; and still others have said they are praying for my sudden, painful death. Then there are the repeated, often daily, threats of Hell and eternal torture, with loving Christians hoping I drop dead today. I have even received threats from IFB preachers. These experiences are, sadly, not rare. They are a reminder of the rotten, violent underbelly of Evangelical Christianity, and, in particular, the IFB church movement.
That MacKay thinks I am lying? I simply don’t care. I know what I know. I hope he never has to experience what I have experienced at the hands of so-called followers of the Prince of Peace.
MacKay concludes with an orgastic fervor, saying I got ahold of the wrong spirit; that I am Satanic. You know what is interesting? MacKay made no attempt to evangelize me. He made no attempt to lead to the right path. He made no effort to share the gospel with me. Why is that?
Gary is right about two things. First, I have led many people astray. By telling my story and helping people who have questions and doubts about Christianity, I have helped people see that there is a better day. I don’t evangelize people. My objective has never been to win souls to Loki. If anything, my goal has been to show people that there are better expressions of the Christian faith than the IFB cult. Do I want the IFB church movement to die off? Absolutely. So many good people have been psychologically harmed, and, at times, physically harmed, by IFB beliefs and practices. There are kinder, gentler expressions of Christian faith for people who truly want a faith that practices the two great commandments: loving God and loving your fellow man.
Do some people who come in contact with me lose their faith? Sure, but I never push people to deconvert. All I am is a storyteller; a facilitator. I simply don’t care all that much about what people believe as long as those beliefs don’t cause harm to them or their families. MacKay’s beliefs materially harm people, so I make no apology for opposing, with what little strength I have left, the IFB church movement.
Second, MacKay claims I got ahold of the wrong spirit. On this account, he is absolutely right. The spirit of whiskey, that is. 🙂
Well, enough.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
