Over the past thirteen years, I have received thousands of emails, social media messages, and blog comments from Evangelical Christians. Most of these interactions have been negative, argumentative, judgmental, mean-spirited, or hateful. Rare is the Evangelical who is kind, thoughtful, or self-aware.
One Evangelical group stands above all the rest: Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB). I can count on one hand the interactions I have had with IFB adherents that I would describe as kind, thoughtful, and self-aware. Why are IFB Christians the nastiest of believers, going so far as threatening to murder me or harm my family? I came of age in the IFB church movement, attended an IFB collage, married an IFB preacher’s daughter, and pastored several IFB churches in the late 1970s and 1980s. While I was a hardcore Fundamentalist, I never treated people as IFB Christians have treated me since I left Christianity in 2008. What is it in my writing that brings the worst out of these people? Is it because I dare to talk out of school, sharing behind-the-scenes secrets? Is it because I am willing to be open and honest about my experiences in the IFB church movement? Is it because I dare to continue to shine a bright light on the movement, refusing, despite their threats, to go away?
Here’s what I know for sure: this kind of behavior is modeled to IFB Christians by their pastors and the evangelists who visit their churches. Thinking that such behavior is “normal” or even Christian, IFB Christians attack and attempt to neutralize or destroy anyone they see as a threat to their beliefs, churches, or pastors. It should come as no surprise, then, that many, perhaps most, IFB Christians voted for Donald Trump in 2016 and 2020 and oppose COVID vaccinations and masks. Some IFB Christians were front and center when insurrectionists stormed the capitol on January 6, 2021. Stormtroopers in the modern culture war, IFB Christians are violently against abortion, same-sex marriage, LGBTQ people, atheists, Democrats, and perceived liberalism. Many Evangelical groups are counter-cultural. IFB groups are, instead, anti-cultural. IFB preachers rail against the “world,” calling on church members to withdraw from society. Thus, such people see me as a “threat” to their way of life, someone who must be silenced.
Over the weekend, I received several emails from a IFB man who lives in the South named Tom. He has emailed numerous times before, using different names and email addresses. Typically, after he emails me, he blocks my email address so I can’t respond. Either that or he deletes his email address altogether. That’s right, he goes through the effort of establishing a new email address so he can send me an email or two and then he deletes his account.
What follows is a transcript of our latest interaction:
Tom
Faggotry is disgusting and demonic!
Satan will have his way with anyone that supports this sickness
I thought Bruce passed away?
Bruce
Tom, You sound like a man who secretly wants to have anal sex with a man. Sorry, I’m not available; not that I would ever fuck an asshole like you.
I am very much alive. Your prayers have failed yet again.
Bruce
Carolyn
Bigotry is an illness worse than faggotry!! There is no Satan, so the only one around here with a sickness is you.
Bruce’s social media persona died a few months ago, but his real self is still hanging on, at least today.
Carolyn Patrick, editor for Bruce Gerencser
Tom
You had best watch who you are calling an asshole buddy. 😡
No I pray for homos to be saved out of the demonic trap they are in.
And you homo supporting baby killer you will not have a nice time in eternity
www.chick.com THIS WAS YOUR LIFE. that’s a tract that represents your future
Tom
Apologies for being harsh.
The evangelists that you tear down love you and don’t want you or anyone else on the blog to go to hell.
Have a blessed day and merry Christmas
Vile, nasty, hateful, and then an apology and Merry Christmas wish? What gives? While such schizophrenic behavior seems bizarre to people outside of the IFB church movement, I assure you that it is quite normal. I spent most of my sixty-four years of life attending or pastoring Fundamentalist churches. I heard countless preachers (including myself) scream and rail against sin and the world, calling names, stomping on toes, and reducing church members to tears of repentance. Realizing how violent their words (and bodily machinations: pulpit-pounding, foot-stomping, pacing the platform, pointing fingers, waving arms/hands, coming down to where people are sitting, shouting, screaming, hollering, spitting) may seem to church members cowering in fear before them, IFB preachers remind congregants that they “love” them and only want God’s best for them. Much like a man beating the Hell out of his wife while telling her how much he loves her, these preachers week-after-week abuse their flocks. Tom is just doing what has been modeled to him by IFB preachers over the years (and he may be a preacher himself). We know parents who were abused as children tend to abuse their own children, so it should come as no surprise that IFB Christians abused by pastors and evangelists would do the same to people they come in contact with.
Is there any hope for people such as Tom? Maybe. Many of the readers of this blog are former IFB Christians. Some of us are former IFB pastors, evangelists, missionaries, deacons, and Christian school teachers. We changed, so change is possible. However, such change requires deconstructing and dismantling every aspect of our lives. For many of us, this process required years of intense therapy. Coming to terms with our IFB pasts is a painful, exhausting process. That process begins with doubt. If Tom has any doubt, he has likely tamped it down and put a lid on it so he doesn’t have to deal with it.
My “prayer” is that something will poke a small hole in Tom’s bubble, allowing reason and skepticism to seep in. While Tom is most certainly a Christian Asshole®, I genuinely hope truth can somehow reach his shuttered, hardened mind. No matter how personal the attacks of the Toms of the world become for me, I must always remember that I was once like them. If I can escape, anyone can.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
What would a Tyrannosaurus rex with a major toothache act like? We probably don’t want to know! We know at least one T. rex was suffering from bone disease in its lower jaw when it died. This disease extended to the root of one of its teeth and was discovered using a CT-based, non-invasive imaging approach. So why is a diseased dinosaur significant in a biblical worldview?
Well, Genesis 1:31 tells us God’s original creation was “very good.” Yet many Christians accept the secular timeline for dinosaurs, believing they died out millions of years ago and before man existed. But that puts death, suffering, and disease before Adam’s sin! [Welcome to the the irrationality of Christian Presuppositionalism and Bible Literalism.]
Examples of disease in fossils, including dinosaurs that are supposedly millions of years old, are fairly common. Those who accept the conventional evolutionary dates for these fossils must believe in millions of years of death and disease in a “very good” creation. But we know these things aren’t good! They’re horrible and are consequences of sin, not of God’s original design.
Instead of trying to add man’s ideas into the Bible, let’s start with God’s Word. When we do that, we see that God created a perfect world (Deuteronomy 32:4) just a few thousand years ago, and dinosaurs were just part of the incredible diversity of creatures God made.
Oh, and most fossils are from the flood of Noah’s day about 4,300 years ago.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Sometimes, I receive an email that defies an explanation. Today, I received the following email from someone in Nigeria:
Grace and peace to you in Jesus name. Our church mission is soul winning ‚”He that winneth souls is wise‚” ‚– If it were not for soul winners, the other four ministries (Eph. 4:11-16) couldn‚’t do their job. It takes a complete working of the body, controlled by the head, to bring sons to glory. One plows the ground, another plants the seed, another digs around it and water it, while yet another cuts the weeds down and digs out their roots ‚– but only God can do the increasing of it. I thank God for his beautiful plan of salvation.
We have ministered the gospel to Souls in the Villages, Schools, Hospitals and in different other places and I am so glad informing you that so many souls have been won and Souls who are worshipping Idols have surrendered their lives to Christ and together We can reach more Souls in villages here.
Please, We are in need of 23 Giant Print Bibles for old Men and Women. And Please help us with 2 Study Bibles as well. We are praying believing God that as you read you this Letter, you will help us purchase these Bibles and We will love the KJV Bibles. And Please pray for the Orphans in our Orphanage home. The safest means of sending bibles to us is via post office insured mail. Please help for this need and God will richly bless you.
I responded:
David,
You read my contact form, right? You know I’m an atheist, right? Why would I send you Bibles?
Bruce Gerencser
I received no response from Pastor David. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Unbelievers . . . do not have time for the truth nor do they want to see true Christianity in operation. So they distort what the faith is all about and present a lopsided view of the faith and those who are members.
In other words, the unbeliever refuses to be honest about Christianity as then they would be faced with the reality that Jesus and God exist, that the Bible is actually true and they are not as good a person as they thought they were.
….
Remember, the unbeliever does not have the Spirit of Truth helping them find the truth. They are the ones lost and deceived.
….
God cannot be more clear than that. it is said throughout the Bible that the unbeliever is lost, deceived, and blind. Jesus also told us that the unbelieving world does not have the Spirit of Truth guiding them to the truth.
That means you cannot get to the truth through the unbelievers’ words. Yet many people who were once Christian have done the opposite of God’s directive and the end result was, they lost their faith.
— “Dr.” David Tee, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, Unbelievers Can’t be Honest, December 9, 2021
FAUCI: AMERICANS Will ‘Just Have to DEAL With’ Yearly Boosters, if They Become ‘Necessary’- FAUCI Will Just Have to DEAL With a LAKE OF FIRE for ETERNITY if he Does Not Repent.
And I do believe that there is a special place reserved for him in hell – a much hotter place indeed.
I would agree that Fauci is full of hot air, but not senile. I believe that he is demon possessed and knows exactly what to do to expand this mass genocide and Fear. I call him Mengele 2.0.
Since my last post about “Dr. David Tee (David Thiessen, Theology Archeology, TEWSNBN), “Dr.” David Tee Continues to Obsess Over My Writing, the defender of Fundamentalist Christianity from a dank, poorly lit basement somewhere in the Phillipines has written six more posts that are either about me directly or mention me in passing.
Typically, I ignore Tee’s stalker-like obsession with me, but his next-to-last post about me (and atheists in general), Are Evangelicals Responsible for the Culture Wars? demands some sort of response from me. My response is indented and italicized. All spelling and grammar in the original.
The answer according to BG [ Tee is too lazy to type out my name] and other atheists seems to be a resounding ‘yes’. Just read his words as BG speaks for himself and other atheists:
“It seems that Donald can’t or won’t understand why atheists might want to challenge Evangelical beliefs, especially since those beliefs directly affect and harm unbelievers.”
This concept is held by atheists world wide. Instead of taking the blame for their own actions, it is easier and more convenient to blame someone else. The easiest target is the Evangelical or the RCC or some other protestant religion that goes against atheist ideals.
The history of the modern culture war is clear. One need only look at the history of the Moral Majority and other Evangelical groups who followed in their steps to see the people and beliefs behind the current iteration of the “culture war.” The same can be said of conservatives within Roman Catholicism and Mormonism. (Many other culture wars have been fought throughout America’s history — prohibition comes to mind, as does the pro-slavery movement. I am specifically talking about the post-Roe vs. Wade culture war.)
What behaviors, exactly, do atheists refuse to take responsibility for? Besides, there’s no such thing as “atheism” or the “religion of atheism.” Wikipedia defines atheism this way:
“Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.”
Atheists are individuals. There’s no sect or church atheists belong to. Each atheist simply denies the existence of deities. That’s it.
There’s also no such thing as “atheist ideals.” Aside from their common belief about the non-existence of deities, atheists have all sorts of political and social beliefs. Sure, many atheists are humanists, holding liberal/progressive ideas. Others, however, are card-carrying conservatives, many of whom voted for Donald Trump.
It should go without saying that I do NOT represent all atheists. The only person I represent is Bruce Gerencser. Do many of the readers of this blog generally agree with me? Sure. But, more than a few of my atheist readers wish I wouldn’t write about politics. To suggest that I am representative of a typical atheist is not only untrue, but dishonest.
BG repeats himself and makes his accusation even clearer: “Evangelicals are the primary force behind the culture war.”
Then he goes on to list the ‘crimes’ [I do not use the word “crimes” in my post.] being committed by Evangelicals that not only supposedly started this culture war but fuels [sic] it. Those are strong words to hurl against a group of people who look to help everyone in the nation in which they live.
“I spent significant time in my first response to Donald explaining to him why I do what I do. It seems that Donald can’t or won’t understand why atheists might want to challenge Evangelical beliefs, especially since those beliefs directly affect and harm unbelievers. My God, we need only to look at the January 6 insurrection or the election of Donald Trump to see how Evangelicals harm others. Evangelicals are the primary force behind the culture war. These warriors for Jesus want to criminalize abortion, outlaw same-sex marriage, marginalize LGBTQ people, and establish a Christian theocracy where the Bible is the law of the land. These things materially cause harm, so it would be irresponsible for me not to speak out on these (and other) issues. I suspect Donald wants the freedom to do the same. Again, I ask why does Donald want privileges for Evangelicals that he is unwilling to grant to atheists, agnostics, humanists, pagans, and other unbelievers?”
Tee asserts that Evangelicals “look to help everyone in the nation in which they live.” Really? I mean, REALLY? Everywhere I look, I see Evangelicals who want to cause harm to others: women, LGBTQ people, immigrants, atheists, and Muslims to name a few. What religious sect is behind the current war against masks and vaccinations? What religious sect was front and center during the January 6, 2021 insurrection? What religious sect is threatening violence toward people who refuse to bow to their theocratic demands? What religious sect has forsaken following after Jesus for fascism? (I am, of course, speaking generally. I am well aware of the fact that there are Evangelicals who take seriously the teachings of Christ and love their neighbors as themselves. They are, however, the exception to the rule.)
Evangelicals are an existential threat to our Republic. Left to their own devices, blood will be shed, people will die, and the Christian flag will stand proud and tall above the U.S. flag at the Capitol. In their minds, there is no king but Jesus and no law but the Bible.
But when you look at the crimes Evangelicals are supposed to be guilty of it really makes you wonder where the minds of atheists are at. How is it wrong to stop abortion and make that act of murder illegal?
How is making abortion illegal a far worse crime than killing innocent people? If a Christian stops a man from killing a woman on the street he is praised, yet when it comes to protecting unborn children from their parents somehow that act of sparing a life is worse than the atrocities committed by Stalin, Mao, and Hitler put together.
Abortion is not murder, need I say more? Eighty-eight percent of abortions take place in the first trimester — sixty-five percent in the first eight weeks. If Tee cannot or will not see the difference between a zygote and a child, I don’t know what to tell him.
Here are twenty-five questions I have for anti-abortionists, also known as forced-birthers:
Does life begin at conception? How do you know it does? Is your view based on science or is it based on a religious belief?
If life begins at conception, why are you supporting an Ohio bill that makes it illegal to have an abortion once a heartbeat is detected? Does life begin at conception or at first heartbeat?
Do you support the use of emergency contraception (morning after) drugs? Why or why not?
Should a pro-life pharmacist have the right to not dispense emergency contraception drugs? Should I be allowed to opt out of anything that goes against my moral or ethical beliefs, regardless of their foundation?
Is abortion murder?
Do you believe murderers should be prosecuted?
Do you believe that driving the get-away car makes a person just as guilty as the person who robbed the bank?
Do you believe a woman who has an abortion should be prosecuted for murder? How about the doctor who performs the procedure? How about the nurse that assisted in the procedure? How about the person who drove the woman to the clinic? If you believe in the death penalty, do you support the execution of murderers?
Do you use birth control pills?
Should you be prosecuted for murder since birth control pills can, and do, cause spontaneous abortion?
Should abortion be allowed for reasons of rape, incest, or saving the life of the mother?
If you answered yes to question eleven, do you support murdering the fetus if it is the product of rape or incest?
Should a fetus be aborted if the mother’s life is at risk?
Do you support murdering the unborn if it saves the life of the mother?
Is your viewpoint on abortion a religious belief?
What passage in the Bible prohibits abortion? Does this passage define life beginning at conception?
Has God ever killed the unborn?
In Genesis, God destroyed every human save eight by drowning them in a flood. Were any of the women who drowned pregnant? Did God kill the fetuses they were carrying? (Kill the mother, kill the fetus.)
Do you support the death penalty? Do you support war? Should women who survive self-induced abortions be charged with attempted murder?
If you answered yes to question nineteen, why do you oppose the killing of the unborn but support the killing of those already born?
Why do you believe that killing the unborn is murder but consider an American bomb killing a baby 3 hours old a tragic result of war, collateral damage, but not murder?
Do you support birth control being readily available in every school? If your objective is to reduce or eliminate the need for an abortion, wouldn’t easily available, free access to birth control reduce the abortion rate?
Do you believe it is better for a severely deformed child to live for a day and die than for the fetus to be aborted? If so, explain why it is better for the child to suffer needlessly?
Do you believe that God is in control of everything? Does everything include children being born deformed or with serious defects that will result in a life of extreme suffering and pain?
Is someone a Christian if he or she supports abortion?
I’m sure Tee will take these questions as some sort of test for him to answer. Can’t wait for that. (That’s sarcasm, by the way.)
Obviously, atheists have a warped sense of what is fueling these so-called culture wars. The same questions can be put to the support of same-sex marriage.
How is it wrong to stop people from being perverts, mocking traditional marriage, and wanting to preserve that rite of life for everyone? Why should an institution become a laughingstock simply because some people do not want to follow the rules of marriage that have been in place since the beginning of time?
Where is the crime in limiting the institution to only those who will follow the rules? There is no law stating that same-sex couples cannot love each other outside of marriage.
However, there are certain rules in place that prohibit non-married partners from benefiting from certain aspects of life when a same-sex partner dies, is injured, and so on. To change those rules one does not have to destroy the institution of marriage but the LGBTQ community doesn’t care about that.
They are very selfish and only think of their own selves. It is not the Evangelical that fired the first shot in this battle and they have the right to defend the institution of marriage and keep it holy, sanctified, and pure.
After all, it is the sick and perverted that is invading the domain of marriage and they were not invited to join. In this case, the LGBTQ community is the one to blame for the war over marriage.
Tee says LGBTQ people are sick, selfish, and perverted. That should tell you all you need to know about the man. Thou doth protest too much, “Dr.” Tee.
Marriage is a state-sanctioned contract between two people. The state grants certain privileges to people who enter into such contracts. Tee can provide no rational reason outside of quoting the Bible to prohibit two people of the same sex from marrying. Their marriages do not affect Tee and his fellow moralizers in any way. What drives Tee’s outrage is his lifelong homophobia (and perhaps latent desire for gay sex). Tee covers up his homophobia with moral pronouncements and Bible verses, but make no mistake about it, underneath his facade is a homophobe (and I am using the word in a colloquial sense).
Then BG states the next crime to be marginalize LGBTQ people, yet how so? He does not go into detail here and in reality, homosexuals were never really marginalized. One of the codebreakers of the German enigma machines was a homosexual.
They got to help in the War and they got to work, live in homes, and so on. People draw the line when special rights are being granted. The selfish and greedy reach of the LGBTQ knows no boundaries.
….
Oh my, LGBTQ people get to serve in the military, have jobs, and own homes — rights Tee would deny to them if he and his fellow theocrats were in charge. LGBTQ people demand equal rights and protection under the law. Instead of thinking about anal sex all the time, I suggest Tee ponder why it is right to deny LGBTQ citizens the same rights heterosexual Americans have? What legal basis is there for denying LGBTQ people the same civil rights everyone else has? LGBTQ people want equal rights, not superior rights — unlike Evangelicals with their Christian nation beliefs.
But these crimes may only be the smoke screen for the most important ‘crime’ held against the evangelical- establish a Christian theocracy where the Bible is the law of the land.
What is being said here is that the atheist really wants to make their own rules and live by them. They do not want to humble themselves and say to God, ‘okay, we will obey you…’ They want to be masters of the world and live their own ways.
They do this regardless of how much harm and hurt their alternative lifestyles do to other people. It is not the Christian or Evangelical that is harming people, it is the atheist.
….
Well, at least Tee finally admits he is a Christian nationalist.
Everyone is being hurt by the atheist support of the LGBTQ agenda.
Who is being hurt and how? How does wanting equal rights and protection under the law for everyone cause harm to others? No answers will be forthcoming
Finally, the atheist and their fellow unbelievers have not created a great society to live in with their rules.
Crime is out of control, injustice is being done daily, people are being killed, shot, robbed far more now than when God’s rules were on the books. Also, criminals are not being punished for their crimes. How is this better than a God-centered nation?
Uh, the overwhelming majority of Americans are Christian. Christians control the levers of government and the U.S. Supreme Court. If crime is out of control (and it’s not) who is to blame? Most of the crime committed in this country is committed by people who believe in the existence of the Christian God, and who, to some degree or another, believe the Bible is the Word of God. Surely, Tee doesn’t think it’s atheists commiting most of the crimes in this country?
Tee lives in a dystopian Christian alternate reality, one where atheists roam the land murdering, raping, stealing, and burning churches to the ground. Much like many of his fellow Evangelicals, Tee has a persecution complex extraordinaire — detached from reality.
When you look closely at the facts, the atheist is merely blaming Christians for what they are actually doing.
Please provide those “facts” you are talking about, David. We would all love to look at them “closely.”
Oh, and the atheist says that those who make extraordinary claims need to produce the physical evidence to support those claims. Well. BG says God does not exist, there is no sin, and many other anti-biblical claims. He has yet to produce any real physical evidence to support his extraordinary claims.
I am an agnostic atheist, David. You know this. So, please quit misrepresenting my views. Sin? A religious construct used to induce fear, keeping asses in the pews and money in the offering plates. My real “evidence” can be found in the almost 4,000 posts on this site. Feel free to rage blog away, David. In fact, I encourage you to start a new blog with the express purpose of deconstructing my writing. Or, you can continue to whine and complain over my refusal to accept your irrational, unscientific, immoral, anti-human claims.
We challenge him to do so on his blog instead of declaring how many years he has been in ministry, how many sermons he has preached, or how he has trouble going to the bathroom (way too much information there).
The solution to your existential angst David is this: don’t read my blog. I have explained to you why I use autobiographical statements in my writing several times. Yet, you continue to whine about me doing so. I have come to the conclusion that you are jealous. You have come out on the losing end of a dick-measuring contest and don’t like it. You don’t like the fact that I have garnered a large following over the years. Instead of plowing your own fields, you stand along the fence row complaining about my farming techniques. You, my friend, are a petty man.
You are the only person who has ever complained about my use of autobiographical material or mentions of my health problems. Why is that, David? Let me state once again: you are a petty man.
Why are you so opposed to natural bodily functions such as sex and shitting? I assume you do both. If you don’t want to talk about your fucking and pooping, fine. However, I will continue to do so. Maybe I’ll even share photos. You can use them free of charge. 😂 Don’t like it? Don’t read my blog.
On a side note, BG has this to say:
“If Donald has not done so, I encourage him to read one or more of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the history and nature of the Biblical text.”
We know [a real Dr. unlike you] Bart Ehrman through his books, lectures, and debates. How could anyone think he has the truth about the Bible? He makes a lot of declarations but we are yet to see him produce any hard, verifiable, physical evidence that any of his declarations are true.
….
His books are the same way. It is all his point of view not facts from archaeology or history. All you get from Bart Ehrman is lies and misrepresentations.
sigh
Let’s see, “Dr.” David Tee’s books have sold how many copies, exactly? Surely Tee will provide his sales numbers for all to see? Something tells me his sales numbers will be 2,000,000 books less than Dr. Ehrman’s.
Tee thinks that by slanderously attacking Bart Ehrman he can get at me. After all, I’m a fanboy and I frequently suggest Evangelicals read Dr. Ehrman’s books.
Most Evangelicals believe the Bible is inerrant and infallible. Tee most certainly does, though I suspect he thinks his interpretations are superior to the original text. He is the pope of Evangelicalism. He’s never been wrong about a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g.
You can’t honestly read Dr. Ehrman’s books and come away believing the Bible is without error. If facts and evidence matter, inerrancy (as typically defined by Evangelicals) has to go. Tee “says” he had read Ehrman’s books, yet never mentions them on his site. I suspect he is overstating his Ehrman prowess. Tee remains a staunch defender of inerrancy, so either he hasn’t read Ehrman’s books or his “faith” stands in the way of intellectual honesty. One can certainly remain, as many have, a Christian after reading Ehrman’s books, but inerrancy cannot be rationally sustained.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Ben Berwick is a friend of mine. You can read his writing at Meerkat Musings. One of our connections is “Dr.” David Tee (David Theissen, TheologyArcheology, TEWSNBN, the pope of Evangelicalism). Tee has written numerous posts about Ben or me. While Tee says he reads other atheist/ non-Christian blogs, he sure spends an inordinate amount of time “refuting” our writing — so much so that he should rename his blog to Ben & Bruce Speak (sound like an ice cream company).
(Tee’s text is in red, and Ben’s is indented and italicized.)
Atheists, as you know, are very hostile towards religion. However, it is not all religions they do not like or do not tolerate. it is actually just Christianity that gets under their skin.
BG has once again provided a very accurate list of reasons why atheists, in general, are hostile towards religion. This is not a comprehensive list and some of the reasons probably would change depending on the specific atheist you talk to.
As we look through the list, all of those reasons can be boiled down to one simple fact- the Christian is not doing religion the way the atheist wants it done.
You will find that while atheists do not accept other gods from false religions, they do not attack those religious beliefs as often or as fervently as they attack Christianity.
We know that the atheist would never say the things they say about Christianity about Islam. They know that the Muslim does not necessarily turn the other cheek and the atheist does not have a death wish.
I can’t speak for Bruce, but I have witnessed quite a few debates and arguments (and even taken part in a few of them) with both Christians and Muslims, so I don’t know where TEWSNBN gets his info from. If he is using Bruce as the benchmark then it is hardly surprising that he thinks atheists generally go after Christianity at the expense of all else, but he is managing, as ever, to woefully distort (heh) Bruce’s position and twist it to apply, in a misleading fashion, to all atheists. Bruce’s background was as a pastor, he was someone who lived and breathed a particular kind of Christianity, and his experiences – both positive and negative, and especially since leaving – have shaped his views. Bruce did not leave Islam, he left Christianity, and copped a huge amount of flak from fundamentalist Christians who have hounded him, pleaded with him, and harassed him, all because he has dared to share his opinions. In those circumstances, would you be more or less inclined to feel warm and fuzzy inside about the faith you left behind?
I know people who left Islam and spoke out, for similar reasons. TEWSNBN’s idea that people don’t speak out about other religions, least of all because of threats of violence, is both a subtle form of Islamophobia and it ignores the aggression and hostility of fundamentalist Christians towards anyone who does not follow their exact form of Christianity.
But why attack Christianity? If there is no God or Jesus as they claim, then whatever the Christian does, should not matter to the atheist. it would be a harmless religion among thousands of harmless religions and no threat to the atheist.
Also, the Christian teaching should not bother the atheist for it would not be true and as harmless as a gnat fighting an elephant. BUT since the atheist is so up in arms about Christianity, that means that the teachings of Jesus are a threat to the atheist because they are true.
I dare say most atheists simply do not care to comment one way or another, but those that do, do so because they are tired of religious interference in their lives. TEWSNBN has often complained about ‘selfish’ secular attitudes, yet how many times has an atheist knocked at your door to convert you? How many ‘atheist’ churches are there where members actively seek out people to preach to? There is interference – but not in the direct way TEWSNBN thinks.
Organised religion has a history of this. Be it Christianity or Islam, or for that matter a host of other religions, organised religion has kept people in conflict, held communities back in fear, and treated women like cattle. Yet to desire a life free from the shackles of organised religion is unfair?
The atheist has no love for anyone, including their mates, children, and other family members as they continue to lead them away from the truth and keep their ‘loved’ ones in sin.
If anyone is doing any brainwashing at home or elsewhere, it is the atheist as they continue to preach a message they cannot prove to be true. They will preach it to anyone that will give them the time of day.
What a load of bull. I have never seen an atheist preaching on a street corner. I have never heard of children being brainwashed into a cult of atheism. These are desperate generalisations on TEWSNBN’s part.
Does TEWSNBN understand where Bruce is coming from? Is he even prepared to make the effort for once? Here, let me help you… Bruce has this to say, right near the start of his post:
“I have a number of friends and acquaintances who have all sorts of spiritual and religious beliefs. Do I think some of their beliefs and practices are strange? Sure. But, their beliefs are theirs and they have every right to believe them. I am indifferent towards their beliefs. For these friends and acquaintances, spirituality and religion is personal. They have no desire or need to convert other people or argue about whose religion is the “true” one. For the most part, they live according to the Live and Let Live maxim. I would be an arrogant fool to be hostile toward this kind of religion. I know that, for many people, religion and spirituality serve a purpose. They benefit from their beliefs and practices and many of them find meaning, purpose, and direction through their religions. Each to their own.”
Bruce does not rally against those who do not rally against him. If someone wishes to live their life believing in something Bruce does not, he is fine with that! I’m sure Bruce does not need my help in pointing that out (it is pretty bloody obvious after all), but since TEWSNBN is being selective in what he reads, it feels necessary.
TEWSNBN ends his post with this:
It might be better to let God rule instead of those people who want to exclude God from government and legal proceedings.
Which version of which God? As ever, if I were to ask that question of people of different beliefs, I would get different answers. TEWSNBN would argue for his specific version of Christianity, a Christian of a different denomination would argue differently, as would Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists… you get the picture. With that in mind, and with no theocratic system being able to fairly rule over all the rest, it is best to have none of them rule.
Tee’s response to Ben’s post?:
You continue to prove that you will distort, lie and misrepresent what I have said. You also do not verify with me before leaping to your own warped conclusions about what I write. it’s not me with the problem but you.
I quoted you and I linked to your post. Anyone can see who is lying, and who has consistently lied.
Ben has been “interacting” with Tee a lot longer than I have. Both of us know that there is little hope of reaching him. At best, all we can do is publicly correct him when he misrepresents our words or spreads lies about us.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Recently I visited Abu Dhabi, the capital of the United Arab Emirates. According to Wikipedia, the UAE became a nation on December 2, 1971, when 6 emirates joined together. A 7th emirate joined on January 10, 1972, thus forming the UAE as it exists today. We were fortunate to be in Abu Dhabi on the 50th National Day of the UAE which was celebrated with fireworks, music, and city-wide decorations. As of 2013, the 9.2 million inhabitants of UAE were comprised of 1.4 million citizens and 7.8 million expatriates, most of whom are from Southeast Asia (particularly from India) and Africa. The population is mostly male with 2.2 males per female. The state religion of UAE is Islam, and it is not an exaggeration to say that there is a mosque on every other street corner. Calls to prayer are broadcast 5 times a day, and it is common to see devout Muslim men praying out in the open if they are not in a private prayer room or a mosque that allows for them to do so in relative privacy. Human rights concerns are definitely an issue in UAE, and fortunately we did not commit any crimes punishable by 60-100 lashes or worse, death by stoning.
One amazing marvel we visited was the Sheikh Zayed Grand Mosque. Completed in 2007, it is the largest mosque in the UAE. According to Wikipedia, the cost to build this marvel of architecture was about $545 million. After we visited the mosque, my husband and I discussed how many resources were used to build incredible religious structures such as mosques and cathedrals, money that perhaps could have been spent on feeding, clothing, and caring for human beings. Are these incredibly beautiful houses of worship designed to appease a deity, to show fealty to a deity, to show off to nonbelievers, or to convince human worshippers that if they follow this particular religion their afterlife reward will be as grand as the magnificent house of worship? The reasons could be any combination of these or perhaps others I have not considered.
As we walked through the mosque, the tour guide, a knowledgeable young Muslim man, explained all the wondrous features of the mosque. When we visited the interior prayer sanctuary, we saw a wall that featured the 99 names of the deity. Infidel that I am, I couldn’t help but think of the Jay Z song “99 Problems” and chuckled to myself. There is a separate prayer room for women, one in which the occupants can neither see out into the main prayer room nor be seen. Gotta keep those women hidden away so men won’t be tempted to lust! My husband and I joked later that men and women are separated for prayer so that Brother Abdul won’t be tempted to check out Sister Farah’s voluptuous posterior outlined by her abaya.
Muslims are obligated to pray 5 times a day. The five daily prayers include: Fajr (sunrise prayer), Dhuhr (noon prayer), Asr (afternoon prayer), Maghrib (sunset prayer), and Isha (night prayer). Each prayer must be completed within a certain period of time. As each prayer time is tied to the rotation of the earth, ancient Muslims excelled in the study of astronomy in order for prayer times to be as accurate as possible. With modern technology, calls to prayer (the Adhan) are recorded and played from the mosques; but in ancient times, an individual was responsible for calling out the prayer times at each mosque. I don’t know what the Quran says about praying in public, but we did see a few men praying in public when there were no prayer rooms available in the location at prayer time.
In this post, I won’t get into the topic of Muslim women’s dress codes and how they are tied into patriarchy, rape culture, the demonization of women’s bodies, and control in general. When we visited the Grand Mosque, I had to wear an abaya and hijab, and I was surprised at the feelings wearing those garments invoked. I felt invisible, like I was not a person. Of course, that was my experience, and I cannot speak for how other women may feel when they wear these garments. If you are interested in finding out more about Muslim women’s dress codes, I recommend Pious Fashion: How Muslim Women Dress by Religious Ethicist Elizabeth Bucar of Northeastern University. Dr. Bucar does an excellent job of recounting how the hijab is used and viewed in 3 different Muslim cultures.
On one of our days in Abu Dhabi, we went on a tourist excursion that included dune crashing in a 4×4 SUV, riding camels, sandboarding down a dune, seeing a falcon show, and a belly dancing show, and enjoying dinner outdoors under the stars. It was cheesy but highly enjoyable! Joining us in our SUV was a family from Tehran, Iran – mom and dad, college-aged son, and middle-school-aged son. The college-aged son spoke fluent English, and the mom was quite proficient as well. We had a great time learning more about each other’s countries and cultures, agreeing that government tensions are meaningless among individuals getting to know each other. Their first question was Trump or Biden, and we announced unequivocally NOT TRUMP and apologized for the travesty that was the Trump administration. We also disabused them of the notion that all Americans carry guns, wear cowboy hats and boots, or are rappers and drug dealers. We learned that all Iranians are not supportive of the Ayatollah or Islamic government, nor do they all wear traditional Arabic garb. They also pointed out that while they were all born into Islam in a Muslim country, they themselves do not believe in any of it and are apostates. However, they cannot be open about their unbelief because technically, in Iran, apostasy is punishable by death. They asked about atheism in America. We told them that we were born into Christian families and are now atheists, but that even though our country’s Constitution supports religious freedom and apostasy is not legally punishable, there still exists a social stigma against atheism. We noted that just as there is a mosque on every other street corner in UAE, in parts of the USA there is a church on every other street corner. The Indian driver of our SUV joined in that he was also nonreligious, but as a resident of UAE he has to keep that information to himself. Apostasy is a punishable offense in the UAE as well, and he could be deported for openly declaring atheism. We all agreed that while religion can have useful elements of community and comfort, it can often be weaponized against people in order to oppress and control.
Having visited a Muslim country and visited one of its holy sanctuaries, I am no closer to joining the religion than I was before. If I had grown up in UAE, the probability is that my parents would have been Muslim, and I would have been raised Muslim as well. Born in the Bible Belt, I was raised Christian because my mom and grandparents were evangelical Christians. When my children were young, we attended a progressive, liberal church until I decided to “take a break from religion”. As my children have very little memory of church and received no religious education, they consider themselves to be nonreligious. While there are converts to religions, the vast majority of people claim the religion of their parents. Or, as we are seeing to a greater degree today, people are leaving the religion of their youth.
It was interesting that in a vehicle with 7 people from 3 different countries, driving in a 4th country, all 7 of us were atheists. My anecdote is not intended to make a comment about the decline of religion; indeed, it was a coincidence that we were all of the same mind regarding religion, and it was evident which among us had suffered religious oppression at some point. However, meeting and conversing with these people confirmed that regardless of our heritage, background, ethnicity, we are all just humans trying to make the best of our situations. I am so grateful to be able to have these experiences that expand my world. And not one of us felt the need to proselytize to the others . . .
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Earlier this week, a “terrorist” set the Christmas tree in front of Fox News in New York on fire. The talking heads at Fox are outraged over this latest salvo in the fake “war on Christmas.”
It’s a tree that unites us, that brings us together. It is about the Christmas spirit, it is about the holiday season, it is about Jesus, it is about Hanukkah. It is about everything we stand for as a country and being able to worship the way you want to worship. It makes me so mad.
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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Christmas is a Christian holiday, no matter how you look at it. Spare me the arguments that it has Pagan origins and actually borrows from other festivals and was only later Christianized as a holiday. [Yes. let’s ignore the historical facts about the holiday.] Let’s just be real; without Christ, there never would have been a Christmas. There never would have been an advent. There never would have been a reason to celebrate the birth of the savior of the world–the greatest gift to mankind from God the world has ever seen. Christmas is about Christ.
Despite that, Christmas has become overly commercialized and secularized. While even non-Christians in many parts of the world celebrate Christmas–for them, it’s just a fun holiday–they actually hate the fact that it has anything to do with Christ.[No, we don’t. For the Gerencser family, Christmas is all about family, food, and grandkids opening presents — and beer and fine spirits.] It’s why we’ve replaced phrases like “Merry Christmas” with “Happy Holidays” in retail stores and we see decorations of Santa, reindeer, and trees with generic ornaments on them rather than nativity scenes and Bible verses praising the one Holy Triune God who is here to save his people.
For decades, the secularists have wanted Christ out of Christmas, [This is a bald-faced lie.] and they’re largely accomplishing that and replacing him with the secular god of gay pride [ says a world-class homophobe]. Below is a gallery of some of the filth that these secularists are replacing Christ with. [Please go to Maples’ website to see pictures of the gay Christmas stuff he finds offensive.]
Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
