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Breaking News: IFB Preacher Bob Gray, Sr. Admits to Driving Church Members

Bruce Gerencser 54 Comments
bob gray driving sheep
IFB sheepdog Bob Gray, Sr. driving church members (sheep) to give, give, give and win souls, win souls, win souls.

It is not often that an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist preacher of the stature of Dr. not-a-real-Dr. Bob Gray, Sr., exposes for all to see the way he really does the work of the ministry. While I appreciate Gray’s “honesty,” something tells me that he won’t appreciate this blog post.

There was a day when the job description for Evangelical pastors included things such as preaching, teaching, visiting the sick and the elderly, marrying the young and burying the old. These days, Evangelicals pastors, especially those who pastor megachurches, inspire and encourage church members. Every Sunday, church members file into the sanctuary hoping to get their weekly fix of Jesus. Pastors, knowing they must rev up congregants to keep them happy and tithing, resort to all sorts of tricks to make sure felt needs are met and every person leaves the sanctuary all jacked up on Mountain Dew, I mean Jesus.  This type of ministry has turned church members into spectators.

Down in Longview, Texas, things are different at the Longview Baptist Temple — a sin-hating, devil-fighting, King-James-Only Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church. The Gray clan — Bob Gray, Sr., and Bob Gray II — have little interest in inspiring, motivating or encouraging church members. Death is certain, hell is real, and Jesus is coming soon, preach the Grays, and they have no time to coddle church members. According to Gray, Sr.’s recent blog post, God-called preachers should drive their church members to do what they want them to do. Gray wrote:

The more I think about the subject of driving people the more I realize how we badly have missed the boat regarding this. In every other area of life we taut [sic] and praise the people who are driven and do drive others for a cause.

We celebrate a coach who drives his team to victory, but criticize the pastor who drives his church to reach their city for Christ. We praise the teacher who drives her students to study harder to get good grades, yet slander the pastor who drives his people to fulfill the great commission as they are commanded to do. We rejoice over the parent who drives their child to practice their musical instruments so that they can become accomplished musicians, but we demonize the pastor who drives his people to give more to God.

Let me ask you a question. Is winning the lost less important than winning the national championship? Tell me why Nick Saban can drive his Alabama football team to win and we love it, but we criticize the preacher for driving his people.

It seems that Gray, now 70 years old, has failed to learn that rarely does driving people result in long-term success. When people feel they are constantly being pushed to do, do, do, and do some more, they will, over time, tire of it and seek rest and relaxation somewhere beyond the incessant pushing of their drug-dealer pastor. I wonder if Gray, Sr. has ever thought about the thousands of church members he has driven right off a cliff? Tens of thousands of people have been won to Jesus through the soul-winning efforts of sheepdog Gray and Longview Baptist Temple (LBT) sheep. Shouldn’t the auditorium of LBT be teeming with members by now? Surely, 30 plus years of driving congregants to give, give, give and win souls, win souls, win souls, should result in overflow attendance on Sunday; yet attendance at LBT is a smidgen of what it once was. Longview Baptist Temple used to regularly publish its attendance numbers, bus rider numbers, and number of souls saved. Today? These numbers are no longer shared with the public. If continually driving church members is the way to do the work of the ministry, why does attendance at LBT continue to decline?

Where did preachers such as Bob Gray, Sr. get the notion that church members must be driven to accomplish great things for God? For many years, Jack Hyles — pastor of First Baptist Church, Hammond, Indiana — held an annual Pastor’s School. Thousands of Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) preachers and church members flocked to Hammond to sit at the feet of Hyles. First Baptist — at the time, the largest church in the world — was the crown jewel of the IFB church movement. Numerous preachers — Bob Gray, Sr. included — took to heart Hyles’ preaching and returned home to drive their churches to give, give, give, and win souls, win souls, win souls. The result? In the 1970s and early 1980s most of the Top One Hundred churches in attendance were IFB churches. Today? Only a handful of IFB churches are on the list. None is anywhere near the top of the list, having been displaced by friendlier, generic Evangelical churches.

The blame for the decline of the IFB church movement rests at the feet of Jack Hyles and those who followed in his steps. Hyles taught these so-called men of God to verbally, emotionally, and mentally abuse church members. As one aged IFB preacher said years ago, We hit our people over the head with the sin stick so often that they duck when we begin to preach. For years, Sunday after Sunday, IFB church members filed into churches such as Longview Baptist to hear preachers tell them that they were never doing enough. Souls for Jesus is our battle cry. Souls for Jesus is our battle cry. We never will give in while souls are lost in sin. Souls for Jesus is our battle cry, sang the Midwestern Baptist College student body when I attended there in the 1970s. Today, the school has a handful of students, and the church which students were required to attend — Emmanuel Baptist Church — is no longer in existence; a church, by the way, that once exceeded 5,000 in attendance.

Thousands of souls were saved through the work of Midwestern college students. Required (driven) to evangelize, students fanned out across the Pontiac and Detroit area, knocking on doors and offering the one-two-three- repeat-after-me IFB gospel to those who dared to answer their knock. Freshmen students, filled with zeal and unaware as to how the soul-winning game was played, were those most likely to devote themselves to saving the lost. By the end of their first year, students who had been repeatedly berated at church, college chapel, and Saturday bus meetings over their poor souls-saved numbers, learned how to lie about their soul-winning conquests. Students were required to report each week how much time they spent evangelizing the lost and how many people were saved. Midwestern even held soul winning contests. Won souls were carefully tabulated and the best soul-winners had their names affixed to a chart.

Many IFB churches have moved on from their hyper-soul-winning days. As members began to burn out, attendance numbers declined. These IFB preachers — considered compromisers by men such as Gray — say they are now focused on quality and not quantity. Other IFB preachers, refusing to admit that they have burned through several generations of church members, continue to drive their churches — demanding more and more from fewer people. The numbers are against them, and in time churches built on the Hyles model of sheep-driving will collapse, and the remaining sheep will scatter, finding pastors and churches who treat them like people instead of a commodity. Whatever my feelings are concerning religion, I consider that those who choose to believe should be treated with respect. After all, they are the ones doing the work and paying the freight. Without them, preachers would be forced to sell vacuum cleaners and hamburgers to make ends meet.

Note

Gray, Sr. recently took to his blog to whine about people saying he drives church members. Gray wrote:

Recently it has been brought to my attention that someone who once worked side-by-side with me in my ministry has criticized me to several men for having “driven” my people rather than leading them. Now, normally I would actually consider that to be a compliment. However, it was obvious that it was not said as a compliment but as a criticism.

It is interesting that someone who would claim to be a friend would say what my enemies also have said about me. This is not something new. Nor is it something that concerns me other than for the fact that it came from a source I would have trusted. Plus it confuses people as to what good leadership is.

People who are told they are “hurting” after being so-called “driven” never knew it until they were told so. We are basically lazy by nature and anyone who will feed that will have to be critical of prior leaders who were driven because of a cause. It is an insult to those who gave their lives to a cause to say they were “driven” without a choice in the matter.

….

So, I say to those who accuse me of driving my people, you are right, I did drive my people. I drove them to do what’s right. I drove them to obey the Great Commission. I drove them to sacrifice for the cause of Christ. I drove them to put the Kingdom of God above themselves. I drove them to be the Christians they should be.

 

Does IFB Preacher Bob Gray, Sr. Have Dementia?

Bruce Gerencser 7 Comments
bob gray sr
Bob Gray Sr, retired pastor of Longview Baptist Temple, Longview, Texas

Bob Gray, Sr., retired pastor of Longview Baptist Temple (LBT), Longview, Texas, is widely viewed as an arrogant, stubborn megalomaniac.  Much like numerous other Independent Fundamentalist Baptist IFB) preachers, Gray’s ministry approach is simple: my way or the highway. While Gray, Sr. is now retired, having handed the keys of the kingdom to his son Bob Gray II, he continues preach conferences and write articles for his blog, Solve Church Problems, and other IFB websites. Now 70, Gray is proud of the fact that he has never wavered or changed his beliefs. The truncated, bankrupt gospel taught to him decades ago by Jack Hyles is the same gospel Gray preaches today. Subscribing to what I call the 4 W’s: win them, wet them, work them, and waste them, Gray has churned through thousands of converts building his kingdom on earth. (Please see One, Two, Three Repeat After Me: Salvation Bob Gray Style) Those drawn into Gray’s pernicious form of Baptist Fundamentalism are sure to find themselves battered, bruised, and assaulted as Gray preaches to them what he thinks is old-time, Just-like-Jesus-preached, Christianity.

Knowing these things about Gray, I was puzzled when I read his latest blog post. Titled, The Danger of Being a Bitter and Cranky Old Man, Gray gives seven things he does to keep from being a bitter, cranky old man. I thought, does Gray have dementia? Here’s what he had to say:

1. Preach often about the love and grace of God. If you go back and listen to the sermons Dr. Hyles preached in the last years of his life you will find that he often preached about God’s goodness and God’s love. He made certain that his preaching did not reflect just a fighter’s mentality, but that it reflected a heart of tenderness and love as well. He didn’t lose his fight, but he didn’t lose his sweetness either.

2. Keep helping people. Dr. Hyles has seen what betrayal can do to men. He chose to ignore the betrayal of people who he had helped and just keep helping more people. Someone once asked Dr. Hyles, “What do you do when your personal converts have turned against you?” He answered, “I just get more converts.” What a great answer.  I have converts who have turned against me. But, I have new converts who I won to Christ this past week. Rather than dwelling on the pain of those who have turned on me, I dwell on the joy of those who recently turned to Christ.

3. Don’t take every battle personally. This is important. Dr. Hyles did not allow himself to be the issue even though others often tried to make him the issue. He even tried to stop those of us who loved him from making him the issue. He said, “The issue is the issue. People want to make me the issue because they can’t argue the real issue.” When you allow yourself to be the issue you are dangerously close to becoming bitter and angry.

4. Remember the things that made you sweet before. I love to go back and reflect on the good things. I love to rejoice in what Christ did for me in times when I most desperately needed him. Oh the joy of returning to the places where God did something special in my life.

5. Stay sentimental. I once heard someone say, “Dr. Hyles thank you so much for taking us back to visit the places that were sacred to you.” Dr. Hyles replied, “Thank you for accompanying me to those places. I don’t go just for you to see them. I go to remember what God did for me there.” Sentimentality in moderation can keep you from becoming bitter.

6. Don’t stop needing God. Dr. Hyles once said, “I’m glad that I don’t have a bunch of millionaires who supplement or subsidize my ministry.” He said, “I have friends who have given a lot of money, but I have always rerouted most of that money to others. I never want to be in a place where I don’t need God because I have someone else who is taking care of all my needs.  I want to stay needy because if I stay needy I get to rejoice in God providing. If you’ve ever been poor you know how wonderful it is when something comes that you weren’t expecting and desperately needed. I don’t ever want to lose that feeling. What a great truth. I love it that I still desperately need God in my life.

7. Stay in the book. The Bible is not just a manual for sermons we as preachers can easily begin to think. The Bible is the precious love letter from our Heavenly Father about his precious son. Stay in love with the word of God. May it never become merely your manual for ministry but always be a personal way to know your God better.

After reading these points, I thought, where was THIS version of Bob Gray, Sr. when he was pastoring the Longview Baptist Temple? Ask former members if Gray spent the bulk of his time preaching the love, goodness, and grace of God. Ask them if Gray had a heart of tenderness and love. Ask them how Gray responded when they voiced their disagreements. Ask them if Gray ignored personal slights. Ask them how Gray reacted to those who refused to bow before him and grant him autocratic power over their lives. Ask them what Gray did when people challenged his “pastoral authority.”

Gray concludes his post with this:

I get a little cranky at times. Sometimes I even get mean and angry. I would like to think that most of the time it’s on purpose, but I want to work at making certain that in my heart I’m still filled with God’s love and grace. I don’t want to be that bitter and cranky old preacher that Dr. Hyles feared becoming.

Buried in this paragraph is the real Bob Gray: a man who thinks that getting mean and angry has its place. And Gray is clear. When he is mean and angry, you know when he is assaulting church members with his rules-driven, Puritanical, cult-like demands, he is behaving this way on purpose. As with Jack Hyles and countless other Hitler-like preachers, Bob Gray, Sr. has no tolerance for those who dare to march to the beat of a different drum. When crossed, Gray can, and does, turn into a venomous viper, capable of killing others with his words. (Please see IFB Pastor Bob Gray, Sr. Shows His True Colors)

Several weeks ago, Gray wrote a post titled, Pastor, is it Possible That You are Abusing Your People?  Gray wrote:

 There is much talk especially on the Internet about pastoral abuse. Unfortunately much of this talk comes from disgruntled church members seeking to justify their leaving the church. Certainly there are cases of pastoral abuse, but in this day and age anything people feel infringes upon them personally is deemed as being

There is far too much being called pastoral abuse, which is nothing more than strong leadership. It is much like parental abuse. What my parents did in raising me would be called abuse today.

I am not justifying any kind of real abuse, but unfortunately the word abuse has been broadened in its meaning beyond reasonability. That said it is possible that sometimes a pastor could inadvertently be guilty of abusing his people.

As you can see, in Gray’s version of the world, mentally and emotionally abusing and manipulating church members is just “strong leadership.” Those who have, over the years, complained about Gray’s abusive behavior are “disgruntled church members seeking to justify their leaving the church.” Just remember, rule number one in the IFB Pastor’s Manual states: Always blame others. Gray has spent his 44 years in the ministry blaming sin, worldliness, liberalism, and compromise for the steady stream of people exiting the back door of the Longview Baptist Temple. Perhaps it is time for Dr. not really a Dr. Gray to take a hard look at his own life  (Please see IFB Doctorates: Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, Everyone’s a Doctor) and stop blaming others.

Those who worship at Gray’s feet will likely say I am dead wrong about their demigod. Like the Texas blind salamander and the followers of Jack Hyles, Gray’s devotees refuse to see the man for who and what he is. There’s little I can do to bring such people to the light. I am friends with several people who, at one time, attended Gray’s church and Bible college. I have also corresponded with current and former LBT members. Yes, current members. These are members who dare not voice their disapproval of Gray, Sr. and his son’s fawning over the Hyles family. When the Grays and LBT one Sunday gave serial adulterer David Hyles a warm welcome, these devoted followers were shocked. Evidently, crossing Gray, Sr. will result in a lifetime ban from LBT. Fucking your way across America and committing numerous felonies? Welcome home, Brother Hyles. (Please see Serial Adulterer David Hyles Receives a Warm Longview Baptist Temple Welcome and UPDATED: Serial Adulterer David Hyles Has Been Restored)

Other posts about the erstwhile king of Longview, Texas, Bob Gray, Sr.

Pastor Bob Gray, Sr. Pines for the 1950s

IFB Preacher Bob Gray, Sr. Says “Buy My Book if You Really Care About Souls”

Bob Gray, Sr. Peddles Lie About New American Standard Bible

Lest You Forget Why You Ran Screaming from the IFB Church

IFB Pastor Bob Gray Sr. Shows His True Colors

Bruce Gerencser 7 Comments
bob gray sr
Bob Gray Sr, retired pastor of Longview Baptist Temple, Longview, Texas

Originally written in 2012. Edited for clarity and grammar.

Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastor Bob Gray, Sr. (not the pedophile pastor Bob Gray from Jacksonville, Florida) pastored the Longview Baptist Temple in Longview Texas for over thirty years. In 2009 Gray turned the church franchise over to his son and became a traveling preacher. He blogs at Solving Church Problems.

Bob Gray is a prototypical Sword of the Lord, Jack Hyles-loving IFB preacher. He preaches an Antinomian, one-two-three-repeat-after-me, pray-the-sinners-prayer, easy-believism gospel. Gray is of the opinion that winning souls to Jesus is the only thing that really matters. Well that and jetting all over the country so he can preach at conferences and special meetings (winning souls doesn’t pay the bills). Gray, a consummate bean counter, can tell you right down to the person how many people he has personally won to Christ and how many people were saved through his preaching.

Over the past 35 years, the Gray-cartel-led Longview Baptist Temple has won more souls to Christ than actually live in Longview Texas. While the Longview Baptist Temple grew to be quite large under the ministry of Gray, Sr, the number of souls saved far outnumber the number of people baptized and added to the church membership. Gray, like many of his ilk, is only concerned with “getting people saved.” If they never get baptized or become a part of the church? Regrettable, but hey, there are more souls to save (he was taught this philosophy by his idol, Jack Hyles).

Gray is a big supporter of Jack Hyles. He is insistent, to this day, that Jack Hyles was a tower of virtue and that he never did the things he was accused of in the 1980s. Gray, a graduate of Hyles-Anderson College, often takes to his blog to defend the IFB church movement over charges of widespread abuse and sexual misconduct. While Gray admits Jack Schaap, the former pastor of First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana, who is now serving a 12 year Federal prison sentence for sexual misconduct, should not have had sex with a 16-year-old church girl, he is quick to suggest that Schaap’s behavior is not typical of what goes on in IFB churches.

Several years ago, a Christian woman by the name of Jeri Massi wrote a blog post titled Corporate Repentance is Required. In the post Massi stated:

Many a Fundamentalist preacher has become offended when I lay down the very first rule for saving Christian Fundamentalism: corporate repentance of the preachers. They are all tainted by the guilt of this religious movement upon whom God has shown the evidences of His disdain and contempt. They all need to repent openly, articulate the sins of Christian Fundamentalism before God and before man, attempt some form of restoration to victims, and institute the means to prevent such sins from happening again, if God should choose to spare this religion that they seem to love more than they love Him.

Massi, a former IFB church member and an acquaintance of mine, has made it her mission to hold IFB preachers accountable for abuse that goes on in their churches. Massi recently published The Big Book of Bad Baptist Preachers, a compendium of stories about Baptist sexual predators and abusers.

Bob Gray, Sr. despises Massi. Her post on corporate repentance caused Gray’s head to explode. Over the course of three blog posts, Gray, Sr. shows his true colors; that he is a misogynistic bigot who will go to great lengths to protect and defend the IFB kingdom. What follows are excerpts from these posts.

In a post titled, WRITING WRONGS-It is Time to Call The Forums and Blogs for What They Are, Gray wrote:

…Enter “Christian” forums and Blogs that attempt to copy the style of expose journalism.  They make it their business to expose things that are really none of any ones business.  I expect the lost world to gossip and slander, but I expect better of Christians.

Do not misunderstand me.  I believe the internet is a wonderful place to fight error and to teach truth.  However, when it comes to matters of a local church, many times they become a place to learn the latest “scoop.”

How is it that heathens like Tricia Lacriox or Jeri Massi can be “trusted” vehicles of information that they and their fellow demonettes desire ONLY for the purpose of destruction?  Why would we go to them for our information?  Worse yet why would we believe their information?

The answer to that question is troubling.  I hear people say it is because that is the only place they find out what is going on. WAIT!   Why do you need to find out what is going on and why would you trust avowed enemies to the cause of Christ to be your informers?  That is nonsense!  It is also evil!  Let me help you with something. You do not need to know!

Allow me to give you an example.  Where do these information streetwalkers receive their information?  A church is dealing with a situation that is horrible.  Someone on the inside has information and they give it to the proper authorities in their church and for their ears only.  These authorities deal with the problem.

However, there are evil individuals with info who are moles and who will be judged of God for their wickedness.  They garner information  not for the purpose of helping, but for sharing with those in bloggers sphere who disdain soul winning independent Baptist churches.

Do they report the number of souls saved the previous week, the number of converts baptized, the Sunday school attendance, the lives salvaged, or any good being done?  NO! They are like vultures who do not see the beauty, but rather only the carcases (sic) of the dead.

These are haters of soul winning churches.  Their STATED goal is to destroy those soul winning churches. They want these churches to go away so they find the things they can use to condemn and twist in order to accomplish their goal.  THEN, WE READ IT!?!?

These forums and blogs create arguments, bickering, slander, strife, and discord among the brethren.  These demonettes rejoice because they have accomplished their goal of casting a curse on that which they despise.  Anyone who questions them is then attacked for “covering sin” or “enabling sinners.”  These demonettes are morons! They have no idea what they are writing about…

In a post titled, Jeri Massi—Liar Liar Pants on Fire!, Gray wrote:

…I am appalled at the sins of those who besmirch the office of ministry as well as any one, man or woman, who do such despicable acts, but I refuse to indict a whole community because of a few.

I think we are all accountable in some respects because we do not walk closely enough with God to be able to spot such people.  However, I know of no one who on purpose allows such things to occur. I only know of gossips who paint a picture without really knowing the truth.

Then people like you Jeri carry their water to incriminate good churches who are doing their best to deal with such wicked people.  Get the facts Jeri.

Again, you did not call me.  You did not seek the other side of the story and you made a BIG mistake by not doing so.  Which makes me wonder about others who have been smeared by your lap top gossip.

If they are guilty lock them up! I have no problem letting people know who the predators are. But, do not indict everyone.  Check out the Scriptures on being a false accuser Jeri!

Why do we go soul winning?  Because of the fact that “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.”

Let me see if I understand you correctly…we should not go soul winning because of wicked men who do wicked things? Maybe that is why God does not call women to be pastors.  Logic like yours deserves to be studied? Ha!

Jeri Massi, you are in this for you. I have been in the ministry for 40 years and have given my life to help the hurting while your claim to fame is living off of victims.

If you were an honest person you would have contacted me before running to your blog to condemn something you knew nothing of except through the eyes of those haters who lie and supply you with slop.

Why don’t you put out your cigar, shut your Hollywood movies off, put away your favorite beer, find a good Christian man to marry, have some babies, and get a real life!

“Run if you want to, hide if you will, but I came here to stay!”

And finally, in a sarcastic, misogynistic post titled, I Owe Jeri Massi an Apology, Gray wrote:

Please forgive me Jeri!  I was under a wrong impression and it really grieves me that I did not see the truth.  I did not really know you and I was under a false judgment.

I did know your brother Vince for we graduated together at Hyles-Anderson College.   I really liked your brother. I know you and him have had some misunderstandings, but let that be as it may.

I just want to make this thing right with you before it really got out of hand.  You see this is a real problem among those of us who are independent Baptist people.  IF we are not careful we assume facts not in evidence.

Of  course, we are not a denomination and have no headquarters and our only rule of faith and practice is the King James Bible. This is what brings us together.

Thus, we are in loose association with each other organizational wise.  We come together based on a Bible principle of “mutual faith.”  As a result we are drawn together not by a political or corporate entity but by “mutual faith.” We have no elections and we have no president for we only have our mutual beliefs.  Each church is independent of the others.

It is absolutely wrong of me to have entered into this with you at the level I did. Please forgive me! May we go back to the beginning and start over in our conversation. Maybe we can come to a consensus and help many of your friends in the internet forum world at the same time?

Many of these others, with whom you associate, I am just now starting to get my mind wrapped around who they are.  I do sense that there is a longing and a searching among you and your friends for truth.  I do not dispute that at all.  I do however think we have all started off on the wrong foot.  Hopefully we can rectify this.

May I begin with Scriptures please?

Romans 3:10, “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:”

Romans 3:23, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”

Romans 6:23a, “For the wages of sin is death…”

Revelation 20:14, “And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

Romans 5:8, “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were sinners, Christ died for us.”

Romans 6:23b, “…but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

Romans 10:9, “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

Romans 10:13, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Now Jeri would you like to trust Jesus Christ to pay for all of your past sins, present sins, and future sins?  If so would you bow in your heart and ask Christ to save you.

I can provide a prayer to help you if you would like, but remember a prayer is just words and a prayer cannot save you.  A prayer is communication between you and Christ.  Jeri, many people are saved before they ever utter a word or walk an aisle in church.  So, if you in child like faith will open your soul and let Jesus know you want to trust Him He will save your soul.

Jesus is a perfect gentleman for He will not force His way into your soul. Jeri, it is not the shed blood, but the shed and applied blood that cleanses a man’s soul.

Jeri I again must apologize I did not realize until I saw your love for Buddha of your basic beliefs.  I apologize for mocking your cigars, your love for beer, your love for the filth of Hollywood, and so on.  No one can be saved by quitting cigars, movies, or liquor.  It is faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ that saves a person from  going to Hell.

It did not dawn on me of your spiritual condition. Again, I am so sorry!

Matthew 15:14, “Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.”

Jeri, you are blind and have a spiritual vail over your eyes and truly cannot see.  Again, I am sorry I did not see this in the beginning. It appears I assumed something that was just not true about you. JUST A THOUGHT!

Gray concludes, based on what Massi has written, that she is not a Christian. But wait, Dr. Bob, Jeri previously prayed the sinners prayer. Doesn’t that make her a Christian no matter how she lives or what she writes?  According to Gray’s soteriology (doctrine of salvation), even a Christian-turned-atheist like me is still a Christian. Once saved, always saved, right Bro. Bob?

Here’s the real issue in this story. Gray, an authoritarian control-freak, is upset because he has no control over what Massi writes. He is furious that he can’t force Massi to submit to his authority.

I love the “advice” Gray gives to Massi:

Why don’t you put out your cigar, shut your Hollywood movies off, put away your favorite beer, find a good Christian man to marry, have some babies, and get a real life!

In other words, shut up Babe. Cook dinner, get laid, and have lots of babies.

The internet has empowered writers to bring to light the dark secrets of the IFB church movement. Prior to the internet, the IFB gatekeepers could control the flow of information. Not any longer. Now there are countless writers airing the dirty laundry of the IFB churches, pastors, and institutions. IFB preachers are watching their kingdoms slip away and there is nothing they can do about it except throw childish temper tantrums as Gray did in the blog posts mentioned above.

Dr. Bob, if you are reading this, I have a message from God for you and the IFB church movement: Mene, Mene, Tekel u-Pharsin

Or to put it into English: God has numbered your kingdom and finished it. You have been weighed in the balances and found wanting. Your kingdom has been divided and given to churches and pastors who love people and don’t abuse them (Daniel 5 with a slight Bruce Gerencser twist).

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Lest You Forget Why You Ran Screaming from the IFB Church

Bruce Gerencser 16 Comments

fundamentalism

Many of the people who read this blog are survivors of the worst that the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement had to offer. (if you don’t know what an IFB church is, please read What is an IFB Church) From mental, emotional, and spiritual abuse, to being physically and sexually abused at IFB group homes, many of you know first hand how toxic and murderous the IFB church movement is.

Bob Gray Sr. is the retired pastor of Longview Baptist Temple in Longview, Texas. Gray’s son, Gray Jr. now sits on the throne of family empire. Gray Sr. is what I call a consummate bean counter. He knows right down to the soul how many people he has won to Jesus. Years ago, I calculated, based on the salvation numbers touted by Gray Sr, that every person in Longview, Texas should now be a Christian. Gray Sr. is a devoted follower of  the late Jack Hyles, the adulterous pastor of First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana. Last year, the Longview Baptist Temple gave a warm welcome to David Hyles, the son of Jack Hyles, a man known for being a serial adulterer.

Gray Sr. is proud to be a general in the IFB army. He is proud of his blind allegiance to Jack Hyles. Several years ago, Gray Sr. let it be known that he was proud to be a topical preacher. Topical preaching is the style of preaching where the preacher chooses a topic to preach on and then finds Bible verses to support his chosen topic. It is proof-texting at its best and it is a style of preaching that is quite common in the IFB church.

Many IFB preachers have about 4 sermons. They have four thousand titles for those four sermons, but they only have four sermons. When a preacher preaches topically, it becomes quite easy for him to make the Bible say anything he wants it to say. As my friend Steve said, who was once a member of Longview Baptist Temple,  Gray Sr’s sermons all sound the same. Sadly, this is a common problem in the IFB church movement. They have the same set of sins they preach against over, and over, and over. I am beginning to think that the people who attend IFB churches must be the worst sinners in the world. Why must their pastors spend so much time telling them what vile, wicked, sinners they are? Aren’t they getting the message? Isn’t the Holy Spirit communicating with them, reminding them of their duty to obey God? Besides, since IFB church members are expected to be at church every time the doors are open, when do they find time to sin?

Take Gray Sr’s March 2014 blog sermon. It is what I call a double barrel shotgun blast sermon. Gray hits almost every IFB hobby horse. To sum up Gray’s sermon, whatever it is, he’s against it. See for yourself:

…A pastor who was upset with my preaching said to me, “I don’t have to preach like that because what we believe can be found in our constitution and not in our church pulpit.” Well what I believe can be found in the pulpit as well as on paper. Those types of preachers are basically cowards. They are what I call silent disciples!…

…Get this! Satan has not changed one bit. There are still Pharaoh’s in this day and time that we live in! The cry still is, “Let my people go!” Satan still says to God’s people, “Worship God, but do it in Egypt! Stay in the world and worship God! Be spiritually minded on the inside and don’t worry about the outside! Live in the world, dress like the world, talk like the world, and sing like the world but don’t give the outward appearance of being fanatical. This is post-modernism, emerging church, or cultural acclimatization…

…In America today you have giant charismatic churches, emerging churches, and Rick Warren wannabes where the choir has become a “worship team” looking like the heathen world. They act like it and sing like it. The bands on their platforms are just like the world’s bands. The women wear their pants, their shorts, and their mini-skirts while the men wear earrings, necklaces and all together praise God. This world has dictated their lifestyle and not Heaven! This cultural war has invaded the local church.  First with a “Contemporary” hour tacked on later is a “Traditional Service.”…

…The pharaoh’s of this world say, “Use Egypt! Avoid dogmatism, avoid division, avoid separation from the world, use Egypt’s music, have contemporary worship services, have worldly bands, and please most of all have unity.” Today’s pharaoh’s say, “It’s ok to drink in moderation.” If your talking about coca-cola that is ok! Today’s pharaoh’s say, “You’ll not have an appeal to this world if you don’t use the world to appeal to the world. Stay in Egypt while you worship God! Mark my word it will not be long until four letter vulgar words will appear in the music on church platforms….

…Born again people drinking cocktails, wearing shorts, listening to ungodly music, using religious rock, and inviting the world into church is worshipping God in Egypt. Born again people going to Hollywood movies where nudity, cursing, humans acting like animals, and the merciless senseless violence is worshipping God in Egypt. Born again people lying on the beach in the summertime in their underwear is worshipping God in Egypt…

…There was a time in our nation when your child could play little league, or soccer, or football, or basketball in the public schools, but not anymore. The cursing and the bad examples will completely engulf and create a worldly mindset that you will regret when your children become adults. Stay away from the influence that breeds compromise. We are not to get our pleasure from this world.

Your local church, your pastor, your Sunday school, your youth programs, your fellowships, your music, and your activities must remind people of Heaven not Egypt. If you don’t believe what I am writing then just look at those who attempted to be a Christian while staying in Egypt. Check out those who turned on their pastor and left the man of God’s influence. Oh, the stories of tragedies in just my 42 years of ministry. It really is sad!

Satan says to a pastor, “Ok have your beliefs just don’t go very far from the world. You don’t want to be called a fanatic. Have the old hymns and add new choruses led by a worship leader. Use some contemporary religious rock music. Keep your beliefs just don’t go very far from the world Have your traditional services, but also provide at a different time a contemporary service.” The sad truth is that those contemporary services are nothing more than a second-class amateur hour for rock music in Jesus’ name. It has turned into an American Idol contest…

…A rebel teen said to me one time in anger, “You’ve become an old man that’s out of date.” I replied, “Yes, and I’m going to continue to stay further out of date.” If being in date means using false Bibles, drinking, going to filthy movies, and acting like barn yard animals then I would just as soon stay out of date. If being in date means denying the inspiration of the old King James Bible I will stay out of date.

The same Christianity of the Bible ought to be the Christianity of every generation. Haircuts on the males are not out of date! Long hair on the females is not out of date! Dresses worn by ladies is not out of date. No dresses on the males is not out of date. God said to man of God, “Go tell Pharaoh to let my people go…

…It’s time student’s respected old age, teachers, and staff. It’s time for the godly adults to be the heroes of young people. It’s time for Lee Roberson to be more popular than Tiger Woods.

Egypt’s music is rotten. We are facing a rotten Hollywood, rotten TV programs, rotten magazines, and rotten stars have produced ruined young people. Why, they are staying in Egypt or hanging around Egypt.

These young Gadarene demoniac stars have captivated the young people especially our young ladies. Young ladies have become young females with their provocative dress or lack there of in public. It is shocking how unashamed young females are in public. Their hairstyles, music, morals, and lack of respect for themselves, let alone for any one else is destroying not only them but our nation also.

How about trading the Rolling Stones for the stone that was rolled away. Let us trade the world’s rock for God’s rock. Let us trade the singer called The Prince for Jesus the Prince of Peace. Let’s trade Elizabeth Taylor for Elizabeth the mother of John the Baptist. Let’s trade Michael Jordan for Michael the archangel. Let’s trade Playboy for praying men. Let’s trade the new morality for the old morality Let’s trade the NIV for the KJB. Let’s trade situation ethics for Bible ethics. Let’s trade homosexual marriages for heterosexual marriages. Let’s trade living together before marriage for living together after marriage. Let’s trade visitation for soul winning. Let’s trade king Elvis for King Jesus..

…A world of rap and hip-hop music with filthy four letter words being sung at OUR WHITE HOUSE. We as God’s children ought to refuse to stay in Egypt, hang around Egypt, or leave our children in Egypt and refuse to leave our possessions in Egypt. Every dime you spend for ungodly movies and ungodly magazines or any other ungodly activity is in essence leaving your possessions in Egypt. I have said for years that there will be more people in Hell because of a lack of cash than for any other combination of reasons…

Aren’t you glad that ran from this kind of mind numbing, soul deadening insanity? Gray speaks of leaving Egypt. Little does he know that, for many of us, leaving Egypt meant running from the emotional, mental, and spiritual abuse that IFB preachers like Gray pass off as good, hard preaching. Gray calls it stepping on toes, I call it stepping on the self-worth and spirit of a person and grinding them into the ground.

James Ach Says Steven Anderson Isn’t Really IFB

Bruce Gerencser 11 Comments

ifb

Recently, one point Calvinist Bob Gray, retired pastor of Longview Baptist Temple, posted an article by James Ach that let everyone know the infamous Steven Anderson was NOT part of  Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) club.  While most of Ach’s post was a harangue against Calvinism, I found his statement about Anderson to be the most interesting and laughable:

…Let us first say on behalf of all independent fundamental Baptists (IFB) of all stripes, that NONE of us recognize Steven Anderson as a bona fide fundamental Baptist. He has virtually nothing in common with any IFB denomination, and has been openly hostile of every IFB minister and ministry from Peter Ruckman, Bob Gray Sr., David Cloud, D.A. Waite, Jack Moorman, Phil Stringer, Jack Chick,  to Fellowship Tract League, William Grady, Sam Gipp, Lester Roloff et al , and that’s just about every known “leader” so-to-speak in modern fundamental “circles”. The above names have sharp disagreements with each other, but Anderson hates them ALL. Anderson is an anti-Semitic, hermeneutically challenged anomaly that in our opinion at DRC is on someone’s payroll to make Baptists look like complete idiots (above and beyond some of the dumb things we’ve done amongst ourselves). In fact, not only do we deny that Anderson is IFB but have a standing joke that Anderson is actually a closet Calvinist…

If you are like me, you found yourself rolling on the floor with uncontrollable laughter over Ach’s claims that Steven Anderson, pastor of Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona, is ” on someone’s payroll to make Baptists look like complete idiots.” Ach, who is known to make conspiratorial claims, provides no proof for this claim.  Besides, most IFB preachers are quite capable of acting like idiots all on their own.

Ach would lead those uninitiated in IFB life to think that Steven Anderson is an outlier, and not at all representative of the typical IFB preacher. For those of us what spent many years in the IFB church movement, we know better. We’ve heard uncounted vitriolic sermons, attacks on everything from Roman Catholics and the NIV to Southern Baptists and the NKJV. No subject, no institution, or preacher was untouchable. We’ve heard screamed out threatening and hour-long long sermons on “liberal” IFB churches, pastors, and colleges. While Anderson and the late Fred Phelps are a bit more hyperbolic, they certainly are within the pale of what can be heard in many IFB churches.

In my case, I had a gold card that gave me special access to the IFB insider’s club. From Sword of the Lord conferences to IFB Bible conferences to pastor’s fellowships, I’ve heard so-called men of God vent their spleen over every sin imaginable. One such man preached from the text, neither give place to the devil. After he read the text, he spend the next hour giving a rundown and run over of everything he considered a sin. And all the preachers in attendance shouted AMEN!

Steven Anderson is IFB and there’s nothing James Ach or Bob Gray Sr can do about it. His beliefs, in the main, are standard IFB fare. Even his antisemitism and racism can be found in virtually every corner  of the IFB world.  As I stated in my post, Understanding Steven Anderson, Pastor Faithful Word Baptist Church, Tempe, Arizona, there is nothing out of the ordinary about Anderson. He’s a garden variety IFB preacher who, as a narcissist, is full of himself and thinks he speaks for God.

I encourage readers to take a gander at Ach’s Do Right Christians blog and see if there really is any difference as far as behavior is concerned between James Ach and Steven Anderson. For even more amusement, check out Ach’s Twitter account (account no longer active).  I think you’ll find that if the former is IFB then the latter is.

IFB Preacher Bob Gray Says “Buy My Book if You Really Care About Souls”

Bruce Gerencser 32 Comments

passion for souls

Snark ahead, you’ve been warned!

I ask you dear reader, do you care about lost and dying souls? If so, Bob Gray Sr., retired pastor of Longview Baptist Temple in Longview, Texas, has a book or two he’d like to sell you. According to his blog, these books are so important that NOT buying them will result in more souls being lost for eternity. According to Gray:

…There are 400,000 plus churches of all types in our nation. If the Bible believing local churches would sharpen their soul winning tools and organize a strong Sunday School system we would see a reversal of our outreach to our worlds. Jesus is coming soon and we must have a second mile kick in order to finish our portion of the race for souls.

You can call xxx-xxx-xxxx or xxx-xxx-xxxx or email xxx@juno.com or xxx@me.com to order.  Do not put this off. The longer you delay the more souls we will lose. This one-two punch will help your local church in your outreach in your world.

Gray warns fellow Independent Fundamentalists Baptists (IFB) about the soon return of Jesus. Isn’t this same sorry trope IFB preachers have been using for decades in an attempt to light a fire under complacent church members?  Evidently, IFB churches are in a race and these books will help them start running faster so they “finish their portion of the race for souls.” Who are they racing against? Satan? Catholics? Muslims? Southern Baptists? Or is this just a Madison Fifth Avenue ploy to sell self published books?  Guilt+fear=more book sales.

The first book is written by David Hyles. Yes, THAT David Hyles. Titled, Jack Hyles’ Passion for Sunday School: Philosophies and Principles that Shaped His Pastoral Ministry, this book is all about the importance of having a Sunday school. And not just any Sunday school, but a Sunday school just like Jack Hyles had at First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana. (Please read The Legacy of Jack Hyles if you are not familiar with him) I think it is safe to say that this book will NOT mention Jack Hyles’ passion for his secretary or David Hyles’ passion for anyone wearing a skirt.

The second book is written by Gray. Titled, Passion for Souls: The Motivation, Message, and Methods of My Life as a Soulwinner, it details Gray’s soulwinning passion and methodology. Jeff Fugate, pastor of Clay Mills Road Baptist Church in Lexington, Kentucky, had this to say about the book:

“This book is in my opinion the BEST book I have ever read on the matter of personal soul winning. It is encouraging, instructive, enjoyable and convicting. I recommend this book to new Christians as well as to seasoned soul winners. Thank you Dr. Gray for your example of personal soul winning and for putting your life’s work into this book.”

Evangelist John Hamblin adds:

“I’m thrilled that you are holding in your hands right now, this tremendous bound volume, “My Passion For Soul Winning” by my dear friend, Dr. Bob Gray, Sr.

I’ve said, as Andrew was the Apostle of Personal Workers in the days of the early church, Dr. Bob Gray, Sr. is the “Apostle of Personal Workers” in the present church”

Here is a principled fundamentalist, powerful preacher, published author and proficient soul winner, who has not only lead tens of thousands to Christ but also has trained and tutored tens of thousands of personal soul winners.

In this bound volume you will find the drive, desire, duty, determination and demeanor, of one, without question, of the most successful personal soul winners of our day.

The IFB church movement is dying on the vine. Countless churches have closed their doors and others face steep attendance decline.  IFB colleges that once had burgeoning enrollment now have a hard time keeping the doors open. You’d think that someone, anyone, would stop and ask WHY this is? Some IFB preachers blame worldliness, a catch-all phrase for church members who love HBO more than they love Jesus. Others develop a persecution complex, thinking that liberals, Obama, socialists, Democrats, Catholics, Southern Baptists,other IFB preachers who aren’t in their camp, and a host of other groups and people they demonize, are actively working against them.

The fault lies with everyone but them. Instead of recognizing that their “motivation, message, and methods,” no longer work, they just keep doing the same thing over and over and over hoping for a different outcome. They continue to preach against the same “sins” they were preaching against 40 years ago. The difference now is that it is harder to find people who are willing to be assaulted week in and week out with the King James bible.

Gray will surely sell some books. The IFB church movement is quite incestuous, so big name IFB preachers preach for one another, give each other doctorates, and buy each other’s books. It is a wheel that keeps on spinning…

If you are interested in buying a copy of Gray’s books, you can purchase them at Solve Church Problems.

 

UPDATED: Serial Adulterer David Hyles Has Been Restored

Bruce Gerencser 144 Comments
david hyles
David Hyles, present day

If you have not read The Legacy of Jack Hyles, I encourage you to do so.

David Hyles, son of adulterer Jack Hyles, once an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastor and a serial adulterer, has come out of the hole he crawled into (Hyles deleted his blog after it was publicized) over twenty years ago, and he telling all who will listen that he has been restored.

Restoration in the IFB movement is like a slum lord who remodels a house. The slum lord is only concerned about the rent money so he rehabs the house just enough to make it look acceptable and then he puts the FOR RENT sign in the window. Behind the paint and underneath the stained carpet is the same cockroach-infested house that existed before the slum lord rehabbed the house. So it is with restoration in the IFB church movement and in much of Evangelicalism.

David Hyles has found two preachers to help him rehab his life: Mike Johnston and David Baker. Johnston runs a ministry called Promise Ministries International Center for Biblical Studies (PMI) in Battle Creek, Michigan. PMI is a distance Bible and pastoral training ministry that focuses its efforts on people in prison.

David Baker, a graduate of Hyles-Anderson College,  is the pastor of Lighthouse Baptist Church in Columbia, Tennessee.

What kind of church is Lighthouse Baptist? A screenshot from the church’s web page will tell us all we need to know:

lighthouse baptist church columbia tennessee
Lighthouse Baptist Church, Columbia, Tennessee

David Hyles has found two pastors who hold to his dead father’s philosophies and beliefs to help him restore his life. Asking IFB pastors, especially those who hold to a perverted, truncated, cheap view of grace, to help you restore your life is like asking the town drunk to help you stop drinking.

I am all for people trying to turn their lives around. I am all for people trying to change their ways. However, I think to do so a person must own his past behavior, be honest about his actions, and not expect people to just forgive and forget.

David Hyles, by all accounts, was a serial adulterer. He had sex with numerous women in multiple churches. Some of them may have been underage. His sexual conquests are well documented. His father covered up his son’s perverse behavior and helped him get a fresh start at a new church. At the new church David Hyles repeated the same conduct that got him into trouble in the first place.

In 2007, the following expose of David Hyles appeared on The Conservative Babylon website (no longer active):

Claims to fame: Son of Jack Hyles; former Youth Minister, First Baptist Church of Hammond; ex-pastor, Miller Road Baptist Church (Garland, Texas); accused serial adulterer; divorcé; cohabitator; alleged child abuser; suspected child killer

Moral apex: As the story goes (we don’t know; we weren’t there), somebody at Hyles’s church discovered porn magazines containing ads for group sex which, they reportedly claimed, featured photos of Hyles having sex with church member Brenda Stevens (by some accounts, the daughter of a deacon). A story soon surfaced that Hyles had had extramarital sex with some 19 female members of the church.

Every one of these women was apparently stupid enough to think she was Brother Dave’s “one-and-only,” according to a voice on a taped phone conversation attributed to Dave’s wife Paula. And, as you can guess, it appears more than a few marriages where destroyed when the truth came out.

What happened next: It appears to outsiders that Miller Road Baptist threw him out, and his wife divorced him and took off with their two kids, and he started living with Stevens (out of — gasp! — wedlock) in Illinois.

Where it gets really tragic: Stevens had a small son, Brent. Dave Hyles was suspected of abusing the boy — who had suffered some eight or nine broken bones in his short life, which had never been treated. Brent was taken out of Hyles and Steven’s Illinois home and given to his biological father in Texas. Within a few months, for reasons beyond comprehension, Brent was returned to Stevens.

And then, in late 1985, 15-month-old Brent was found dead in his crib. Hyles, who had been alone with the child, claimed he found him not breathing, and called police. It has been suggested in a few online articles that Dave’s father Jack arrived before the cops did.

A coroner’s inquest into Brent’s death (at which Hyles took exercised his Fifth Amendment rights — and which the baby’s mother doesn’t appear to have attended) was apparently thwarted because the little boy had been embalmed and buried (reportedly the very next day after his death), before a proper autopsy could be performed. (An empty bottle of Actifed — for which a prescription had been filled only the day before Brent’s death — was found at the scene.)

Without any physical evidence of wrongdoing, Hyles was not indicted. The case remains open.

If those who follow the Hyles story are correct (waving at the Fighting Fundamentalists!), n the mid-1990s Hyles went to work teaching Sunday school at a Pinellas Park Baptist Church in Florida — which reportedly expelled him on charges of adultery. It’s also been reported that he was thrown out of the next church he attended (Berean Baptist Church in Orange Park, Florida), for “sexual misconduct” with three different women.

(One of those women is assumed to be church secretary Joyce Phaneuf, who appears to have been arrested for prostitution in 2003. Assuming this is the same Joyce Phaneuf, her mug shot and arrest report — which notes the tattoo on her right-upper thigh, reading “David’s Girl” — are available at everybody’s favorite finger-wagging site, The Smoking Gun.)

Just when you think it can’t get any more tragic: Hyles, it’s said, finally married Stevens and they had their own child together, a boy named Jack David. In March, 1999, when the child was five years old, Stevens was reported to have run over him with her car, killing him. According to news reports, she claimed he must have fallen out of the vehicle, and she didn’t know it….

What does David Hyles say to reports like the one on The Conservative Babylon? He ignores it and refuses to directly confirm or reject the behaviors he is accused of. Instead, in a blog page titled, David Hyles: My Story (page no longer available), Hyles writes:

Others may be reading this book merely out of curiosity. You heard of me and read many of the horrible stories about me. Now you want to know what I am going to say in defense or in explanation. I trust you will not be too disappointed, but this is not a tell all book. I have no intention of defending myself nor do I plan on trying to separate the truth from the legion of lies. I do not believe it would bring honor to God for me to try and explain what is and is not true. Explanation often leads to excuse or blame and I desperately fear that. You do not need to read about my sins. You just need to know that whatever I did do when I was away from the Father, God in His rich mercy and grace has restored me to HIMSELF. This is a book about grace. I trust that God’s grace and not my sins will be glorified.

In other words, whatever Hyles did or didn’t do, he ain’t tellin’. God has forgiven him, it’s under the blood, time to move on. Time to move on meaning, I have written a book I want you to buy.

david hyles greatest men
Jack Hyles, David Hyles, Jim Krall, World’s Greatest Men

Hyles has some sharp words for his critics:

First you are hurting the lost. Several years ago I worked with a young man who knew I was a Christian. This young man was searching. He had dabbled into several religions in his search. He respected me and began to question me about Christ. God was working in his life and I felt he was very close to accepting Christ as his Savior. Someone, in an attempt to hurt my business began circulating an email through my workplace and he received it, anonymously, of course. He never again listened to me and eventually our paths parted. I pray every day for God to save him. It was not MY sins that turned him away. No, actually it was the evil spirit of those my accusers who claimed to be Christians. He wanted no part of that.

Secondly, you are hurting the fallen. Countless Christians have seen what you have done to me and to others who have fallen and decided to just disappear rather than being restored. I believe that there have been suicides and other tragedies that could have been prevented if a fallen brother or sister had felt there was hope. You diatribes on your filthy forums serve Satan’s purpose well.

Thirdly you are hurting those who I have hurt. Please hear me on this. Every fallen pastor or Christian leaves hurting people in their sinful wake. I did. I know that. It breaks my heart. David did too and his heart was broken. There is little we can do to repair the damage. Their deliverance must come from God and it will not come from revenge or retribution. It will come only from forgiveness. Please allow God to be God and to deal with his children as He will. Stay out of it and encourage those who have been hurt to find their peace from God not from your vigilante system of internet justice.

Allow me to elaborate on this just a bit more. People who are hurt by a sinner are destroyed by bitterness. No one’s sin can destroy your life. Our loving Father would not allow that. He stands ready as a loving Father to pick you up and mend your broken heart. Sinners (and that includes us all) do bad things that affect other’s lives. For all have sinned… However, if we get them to take their eyes off of the offender and place it on the Savior they can be healed. Closure does not come from our flawed idea of justice. It comes from letting God heal us even as He deals with the one who offended or hurt us.

Fourthly you are hurting you! The manure you are hurling fails to hit me but your hands sure do smell of the filth you have no business picking up. I am sorry for the pain that makes you feel that somehow you will gain some kind of satisfaction from trying to hurt me. I wish this book could give you the peace you are lacking but I sincerely doubt it will.

Finally and most importantly, you are hurting the Father. I have news for you that is not going to please you, but here goes. GOD LOVES ME and I AM SAVED AND FORGIVEN! I fell but, you see, when a Christian falls we do not fall away from grace, we fall into it, hence the name of this book. I am in His grace and one day I will stand before Him clothed in the righteousness of His Son and not the sin of my own.  Why would you dare try and hurt the heart of God? Is it because there is unconfessed sin in your life? Are you so far from Him that you have lost the sweetness of His mercy and grace in your own life? That is sad.

David Hyles, in the manner of countless abusers before him, refuses to own his past behavior and points the finger at those who attempt to hold him accountable for what he did. Hyles thinks he has a get out of jail free card. He thinks the blood of Jesus has cleansed him from all of his past actions, and if God has forgiven him so should everyone else.

David Hyles perpetrated acts against real flesh-and-blood people, and if he is serious about turning his life around he MUST deal with the men, women, and children he hurt. Putting his past actions under the blood, cast into the sea of God’s forgetfulness, might play well in IFB churches, but here in the real world where real hurt must be atoned for, David Hyles is expected to own his past behavior, make a complete confession, and, as much as is humanly possible, make restitution to those he hurt.

It is clear from David Hyles’ blog, Fallen In Grace, (which he deleted once it was publicized) that he is still a believer in IFB doctrine. No matter what “sins” he committed, no matter how perverse his life was, because of the IFB doctrine of “once saved, always saved,” Hyles was always a Christian. No matter how many people he hurt and abused, he was always God’s child.  This turns the Christian gospel of grace on its head, and no matter what a person might have done, if he, at one time or the other, mouthed the right prayer, he is a Christian.

This is why David Hyles can reinvent himself and start fresh. As countless preachers before him, his God has hosed off the shit from his life, and he is a clean, fresh-smelling Christian. However, I suspect the people David Hyles hurt and abused can still smell the shit. Their lives were forever marred by the perverse actions of David Hyles.

I have no doubt David Hyles will convince a lot of people that he is truly a new man and that God has a wonderful, new, exciting ministry for him. Christians love a comeback story and Hyles is counting on their gullibility to make a new life for himself.

For those of us who lived through the David Hyles scandals and the Jack Hyles scandal, we are not easily fooled. When David Hyles demonstrates true acts of repentance and restitution, then people such as I might, in time, be willing to give him a twelfth chance. Based on what Hyles has written so far, he sees no need for repentance or restitution. He sees no need to make things right with those he victimized. God has forgiven him and THAT is all that matters. Because of this, I am inclined to think that David Hyles is just another disgraced IFB preacher trying to make a comeback because he needs some money.

jack hyles passion for sunday school

Just today, Bob Gray, retired pastor of Longview Baptist Temple, Longview, Texas, announced that his publishing house will soon release a book by David Hyles.  Longview, you might remember, is the church that gave David Hyles a rousing and warm welcome when he visited there a couple of years ago.

Bob Gray’s version of Christianity leaves no one beyond the grace of God. It requires no repentance or restitution. It requires no accounting of crimes committed or people defrauded. All that matters is that a sinner prays the prayer and his or her ticket for heaven is punched. According to Gray, David Hyles has a fire insurance policy that can’t be revoked.

The publishing of this book is a reminder that David Hyles, like his father, is a narcissist. Imagine if Hyles wrote a book titled, I was Wrong: My Apology to Those I Hurt. Most people would appreciate his willingness to come clean about the past (though fessing up to what might have been murder might land him in the slammer). Instead, Hyles writes a book about his father. By doing so, Hyles reminds everyone that is paying attention that nothing has changed. Ain’t God good!

Notes

Let me be clear, I don’t think David Hyles is evil personified. He is a man with a wife and a family. He has sisters and a mother. I must never forget that is he a fellow human being. But, he also has a sordid past, a past he is unwilling to deal with. His unwillingness to do so casts a long shadow over his present life. Hyles thinks that the blood of Jesus is some sort of magic potion that makes the past disappear. While that might play well in places like the Longview Baptist Temple, there are a number of people, IFB pastors and church members included, who are outraged by Hyles’ narcissistic, unrepentant behavior. To these people, men like Bob Gray are enablers who encourage people to make light of their sin. Is there no sin that carries a societal and church death penalty? In Bob Gray’s world, evidently not. A decade from now, when convicted sex offender Jack Schaap is released from the federal penitentiary, I have no doubt he will find a home at the Longview Baptist Temple. Why, he might even become a worker in the youth group, sharing, like the Apostle Paul, stories from prison.

David hyles facebook
David Hyles’ Facebook Profile Picture

You can check out David Hyles’ Facebook page here

Much of Hyles’ Facebook wall is private, but his older status updates are public. Take a few minutes to read them. I suspect you will notice, as I did, that he loves to quote himself, proving that he is a chip off of his father’s block.

David Hyles Google+ page

Several preachers are listed as friends on Hyles’ Google+ page including  Bob Gray, retired pastor of Longview Baptist Temple, Bob Gray II, current pastor of Longview Baptist, and Joel Fugate, assistant pastor Clays Mill Road Baptist Church. (Jeff Fugate’s son)

David Hyles’ mother, Beverly, has a blog

David Stewart’s defense of David Hyles

Romulus, Michigan Police Department report about one of David Hyles’ girlfriends. You can read the full report at the Smoking Gun.

Police Report for Joyce Phaneuf, a Church Secretary and Once a Girlfriend to David Hyles. Notice the Report Mentions a Tattoo, David's Girl?
Police Report for Joyce Phaneuf, a Church Secretary and once a girlfriend to David Hyles. Notice the report mentions a tattoo, David’s Girl?

David Hyles at a monument to his Dad

david hyles at monument for his dad
David Hyles, at a monument to memorializing Jack Hyles. I think the phallic design is fitting.

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Serial Adulterer David Hyles Receives a Warm Longview Baptist Temple Welcome

Bruce Gerencser 2 Comments
david hyles greatest men
Jack Hyles, David Hyles, Jim Krall, World’s Greatest Men

Jack Hyles, the late pastor of First Baptist Church in Hammond, Indiana, had a son named David. David Hyles was the youth pastor at First Baptist. He later pastored, if I remember right, Miller Road Baptist Church in Garland, Texas. Miller Road was previously pastored by his father. David Hyles, like his father before him, and like his brother-in-law Jack Schaap, (see Chicago Magazine articles on Schaap) had a problem with keeping it in his pants.  He was accused of having sex with girls/women at First Baptist Church, Miller Road Baptist Church and several of churches he attended after he could no longer find a church to pastor.

A post on Café Mom succinctly details the serial adultery and criminal behavior of David Hyles:

Jack’s son, Dave Hyles is famous for his perversions that his daddy attempted to help cover up.

Dave Hyles used to scream until his face went purple when I was teenager. Dave used to travel around the country and hold youth rallies where he would scream: “BE PURE! BE PURE!!!” I was a teen then but I always knew there was something ungodly in his rage.

Not too long after that, they found a suitcase in a dumpster in a church parking lot containing pictures of Dave Hyles and a woman (not his wife), both very much in the nude and in compromising positions. Of course Dave wasn’t removed from the ministry, just moved to a different church in a galaxy far far away. (Texas)

Then David Hyles was kicked out of that church for running around with lots of women. 19 to be exact!!

David Hyles ran off to Indiana with Brenda Stevens. (One of the women who was in those photographs with Dave Hyles found in that suitcase above.) Brenda Stevens had a young son, named Brent.

In late 1985, 15-month-old Brent was found dead in his crib. David Hyles, who had been alone with the child, claimed he found him not breathing, and called police. In reality Dave called his father Jack Hyles first. Jack Hyles was on the scene long before the police were called.

A coroner’s inquest into Brent’s death Dave Hyles exercised his Fifth Amendment rights. Brenda Stevens— the baby’s mother didn’t even attend the coroner’s inquest into the death of her own 15 month old son.

At this inquest, it was revealed the investigation was thwarted because the little boy had been embalmed and buried the very next day— Jack officiated, The boy was buried before a proper autopsy could be performed.

The little 15 month old had nine different broken bones in different stages of healing. The case remains open to this day.

Was Dave Hyles banned from the ministry even after all the above? Oh no. In the 1990′s Dave moved by daddy where Dave taught Sunday school at a Pinellas Park Baptist Church in Florida. He was kicked out of that church because of adultery.

Dave Hyles was then thrown out of the next church he attended (Berean Baptist Church in Orange Park, Florida), for “sexual misconduct” with three different women. One of those 3 women was the church secretary Joyce Phaneuf, who was arrested for prostitution in 2003. Joyce Phaneuf, her mug shot and arrest report — which notes the tattoo on her right-upper thigh, reading “David’s Girl.”

After all this, Dave Hyles finally married Brenda Stevens and the two had their own son who they named Jack David. In March 1999, Brenda Stevens said little 5 year old Jack David must have fallen out of her car, she didn’t know it, and she ran over her own son with her own car–killing him.

Of particular interest is David Hyles’ involvement with Joyce Phaneuf, the secretary at Berean Baptist Church. The following graphic, detailing Phaneuf’s tattoo, pretty well says it all.

joyce phaneuf

You can read the complete police report at The Smoking Gun.

If you have not read my post, Serial Adulterer David Hyles Has Been Restored, I encourage you to so. It will provide a bit of context for what I am going to write next. Reading The Legacy of Jack Hyles might provide further context.

Dr. Bob Gray Sr. is pastor emeritus of Longview Baptist Temple, an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) megachurch in Longview Texas. The Gray franchise is now pastored by Bob Gray, Jr.  Bob Gray, Sr. prepared for the ministry at Hyles-Anderson College and is a stanch defender of all things Hyles. It should come as no surprise then that when David Hyles recently showed up at the Longview Baptist Temple, he was warmly received. A known serial adulterer, with a suspected criminal past, was given a warm welcome by Pastor Gray. (Junior I believe, since Senior was preaching in Grand Rapids, Michigan, on October 27th.) A person with a close connection to the Longview Baptist Temple emailed me about Hyles’ appearance at the church. This person, a committed Christian, knowing Hyles’ backstory, was rightly upset over Hyles being given a warm welcome.

Here is what I know about Bob Gray, Sr. Rather than being offended that a known serial adulterer, a PREDATORY abuser, and a suspected criminal, showed up at his church, he will be more offended that somebody dared to talk out of school. How dare someone report to an atheist what is going on the House that Bob Built!

This is a reminder to me that there are still decent, good people who attend IFB churches. I don’t understand why they still attend these kind of churches, but they do (and the reasons may be things like fear, family, social connection). These good people rightly understand the indecency of giving a man like David Hyles one moment of respect. They rightly understand that the only place for David Hyles is back under the rock he crawled out from under.

Until David Hyles makes a full and public confession of his “sins” — which he will NEVER do because of possible criminal liability — he should not be allowed to step foot in a church. David Hyles left behind a trail of broken lives, women whose lives were ruined by a man of God why preyed on them. How can men like Bob Gray not understand this?

Dr. Bob Gray, Sr. obsesses over blogs such as this one. As a controlling egomaniac, he is outraged that he can’t control the story line. He will take to his blog to express his unrighteous outrage, but his actions will be for nothing. Thousands more people will read this blog post than will ever read Gray’s blog, Solve Church Problems. Those of us who make it our business to expose what goes on in IFB churches can’t be silenced. Prayers that God kills us go unanswered and people, good Christian people, continue to share what is really going on in places like the Longview Baptist Temple.

We are on to you, Dr. Bob.

Perhaps Gray, Sr.  was paving the way for what took place at Longview on Sunday with the following post on his blog:

…No one is perfect; we are all dirty scoundrels. We have all offended and mistreated other people. If all of us seek vengeance towards those who have mistreated us, we will all be in trouble. If you continue to hold bitterness in your heart towards someone, you will never find happiness. You will die young because of hatred and bitterness. Instead, you should realize God has forgiven you of far greater sins than the sins people have committed against you. If He can forgive you, then surely you can forgive other people.

Once you have enjoyed the sunset of forgiveness, you will never again enjoy the sunset of vengeance. Once you have tasted the sweetness of forgiveness, once you have bathed in the sunlight of restitution, once you have eaten from the table of heavenly manna, love, and kindness, you will never be satisfied with hatred.

It is not my job to seek vengeance – that is God’s responsibility. I do not know how to play the organ; the organist knows how to do it, and that is her responsibility. I do not know how to play the piano or sing; we have pianists and musicians to do that. If I were to walk into church one day and try to play the piano or organ, I would fail at it. I do not have the training. By the same token, it is not my responsibility to seek vengeance. That is God’s responsibility.

There is a difference between my vengeance and His vengeance. My vengeance is destructive; I want to destroy a person. God’s vengeance seeks to catch a person’s attention so He can salvage him. I am incapable of properly seeking vengeance just as I am incapable of playing the piano properly.

My job is to forgive. It is not Christ-like to be forgiven, because Christ never sinned. On the other hand, it is Christ-like to forgive. If someone treats me wrong and I forgive him, I am being Christ-like…

Gray seems to not understand that forgiveness requires confession and repentance. In David Hyles’ case, public sin requires public confession and repentance. Until this is done, there is no reason for anyone to forgive David Hyles. I am content to leave the forgiving to God; however, in THIS life, his victims deserve seeing David Hyles shamefully confessing his “sins.” Perhaps, in some small way, this would allow them to come to terms with what happened to them and they can find peace. There are wounds that time often does not heal. Sexual wounds fall into that category. If Dr. Bob Gray Sr. really wants to do good, he will demand David Hyles come clean about his past. He will also demand that he make restitution wherever possible.

Of course, Dr. Bob won’t do this. The ONLY thing he is concerned about is…who told?

Note

I trust the person who sent me this news. I treat these reports like TMZ. I reserve the right to amend the story if further details are made known. If you know anything about David Hyles being at the Longview Baptist Temple, please let me know.

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