Hello, Pastor John [Piper], and thank you for APJ! I write because last year someone very close to me was assaulted and murdered. At the time of the tragedy, I had not devoted my life to Christ. The pastor at the funeral service said, ‘I don’t think it was God’s plan for this to happen.’ I remember feeling so lost and angry. I gave my life to Christ a few months later. But I still don’t understand why my loved one would be murdered if God is omnipotent. Does God allow sin to roam unchecked? Does the Bible say anything about God allowing such awful sin to happen, and why? I am a new Christian with a lot to learn.
It’s difficult for me to know what the pastor at your friend’s funeral meant when he said, “I don’t think it was God’s plan for this to happen.” Maybe all he meant was that God never does anything wrong and never sins against anyone. But it’s one thing to say that God never does wrong, and it’s a very different thing to say that God does not govern or oversee or direct or control the wrong that happens in this world. If that’s what the pastor meant — that God doesn’t do that — I think he’s mistaken, because the Bible teaches from cover to cover that God does, in fact, govern all the details of the world, including the bad things that happen to us and to our friends.
….
So God’s counsel, God’s wisdom, God’s purpose always comes to pass. That’s what it means to be God. Not the devil, not nature, not fate, not chance, not sinful man — nobody and nothing can thwart the plan of God.
….
In other words, from the tiniest, most insignificant happening, to the largest global happenings, God governs all things.
….
So, when you feel that you can’t understand why God does what he does, let your heart rest here: the worst suffering and the deepest sovereignty meet at the point of greatest love — the cross of Christ. So rest there.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Tim Conway is the pastor of Grace Community Church in San Antonio, Texas. In 1994, I became the co-pastor of Community Baptist Church in Elmendorf, Texas. Tim, along with two current elders at Grace Community, Craig Mussulman and John Sytsma, were members of Community Baptist while I was there. (Please see I Am a Publican and Heathen — Part One.) I spent countless hours with these men as their pastor and friend.
Futile, vain, empty, pointless, to no avail. And right here in Ephesians chapter 4, futility of mind is the characterization of the Gentiles. That’s how you are no longer to be. Christian, we are to put away futility. No longer. You must no longer. Futility of mind is a picture of people using their mind in ways that are just a waste of time. They are a waste of effort. You want some examples? Brethren, I know this about all of us. We all want to be happy. That is what mankind is striving after. Mankind wants to feel good, and mankind strives after that. You want an example of futility of mind? Futility of mind is man who is forever and always trying to figure out how to be happy while he is an enemy of God. That, folks, is futility. That is vain. That is worthless.
….
Or how about this: The futility that people walking around just spending their time; I was thinking about, some of you know about Bruce Gerencser, who was one of the co-elders down at Community Baptist Church when Ruby and I were down there, who apostatized and basically became an Atheist. What futility to spend your life trying to convince yourself there is no God. You see, these are the futile ways or futility that comes to nothing. Nothing at all.
Twenty years after I left church and six years after I deconverted, I was still on Conway’s mind. Talk about futility. 🙂
Whatever the reasons, my story remains a burr in the saddle of Conway and others who once considered me their colleague, pastor, or friend. Numerous prayers have been uttered on my behalf, yet God has not seen fit to save or kill me. I remain a red-flashing-light reminder of the fact that pastors — men who once preached the unsearchable riches of Jesus Christ — can and do apostatize. And if men of God can lose their faith, well, anyone can.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I am politically progressive and liberal. I make no attempt to hide my democratic socialistic tendencies. I am a registered Democrat and a supporter of Bernie Sanders. I am an inconsistent pacifist. I am of the opinion that the United States has not fought a just war since the two world wars. And even with these wars, the United States, with its immoral nuclear bombings of Japan and its firebombings of Germany, has shown itself to be as violently ruthless as its enemies. The same goes for the United States’ use of napalm during the Vietnam War. (Please read Napalm: An American Biography by Robert Neer.) Americans love to think of themselves as kind, goodhearted people who only resort to violence when backed into a corner, when in fact the United States, thanks to its colonialist, imperialistic, and nationalistic tendencies, is a nation whose history is steeped in the blood of innocents. (Please read The Dominion of War: Empire and Liberty in North America 1500-2000 by Fred Anderson and Andrew Cayton.)
Prior to the turn of the 21st century, I was a registered Republican — the party of my tribe and religion. The reasons I am no longer a Republican are many. Let me list a few of them. These statements reflect my understanding of the Republican Party at the national level. I realize that not all Republicans believe/support the positions that follow.
The Republican Party is and I am not:
Pro-life
Pro-Christian
Pro-gun
Pro-NRA
Pro-war
Pro-Israel
Pro-big business
Pro-Chamber of Commerce
Pro-dark money political contributions
Pro-unrestricted campaign contributions
Pro-charter schools
Pro-unregulated religious schools
Pro-Pledge of Allegiance
Pro-Christian nationalism
Pro-American expansionism
Pro-American imperialism and colonialism
Pro-military as the world’s policeman
Pro-Patriot Act(s) and other government intrusions into privacy
And Best Hits of the Republican Party keep on playing.
And if these things aren’t enough, Republicans committed the biggest political crime of the modern era — electing Donald Trump president. And . . . four years later, knowing that Trump was a criminal who caused the deaths of thousands of people from COVID-19, and was unfit for office, Republicans tried to elect him again.
From 2016 to today, what have we learned about the Republican Party? With lips dripping with the blood of injustice, unfairness, and unequal protection under the law, the Republican Party has waged an all-out war against LGBTQ people, people of color, and anyone else who doesn’t fit in their narrow, defined ideological box. Whatever moderate, centrist politicians that once existed in the Republican Party no longer exist. Republicans are now the party of Trump, the fomenters of insurrection, culture warriors intent on turning the United States into a violent theocratic state.
It is for these reasons, and others, that I could NEVER, EVER be a Republican. They are the antithesis of everything I believe and stand for.
Readers should not assume from this post that I am pro-Democrat. I am not. I held my nose and voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016 and Joe Biden in 2020 for one simple reason: they weren’t Donald Trump. Neither Clinton nor Biden was my first, second, or third choice. (I voted for Bernie Sanders both times in the primaries.) Currently, I am considering leaving the Democratic Party, registering as an independent voter. I’m done with voting for the “lesser of two evils.” The Democratic Party is weak, feckless, and cowardly, given over to extremism instead of getting things done for the American people. Is there no whack-a-doodle position too extreme for Democrats? Evidently not. In many ways, extremists in the Democratic Party are not much different from right-wing extremists in the Republican Party. The two-party system is irreparably broken, controlled by corporate money and career politicians. The “house” needs to be razed so a just, equitable system can be built. The upcoming midterm elections will go a long way in helping me decide whether I am finally done with the Democratic Party. Here in Ohio, both at the state and local level, the Democratic Party is as dead and missing as Jimmy Hoffa.
Maybe none of this will matter. If warmongers in the Republican and Democratic Parties have their way, we could be living in a nuclear wasteland by Christmas. Thinking a war with Russia is “winnable,” and the use of tactical nuclear weapons will show the world we are still the only true superpower, our political leaders are leading us down a path that leads to heartache and devastation. Coming soon will be a push to expand funding for the military and security industrial complexes. To some degree, this already happened before the war in Ukraine. I can only imagine how much money the people who allegedly “keep us safe” and “fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here” will be clamoring for now that we are sending billions of dollars in military aid to Ukraine and NATO. Nothing like a military conflict — and make no mistake about it, we are waging war against Russia and Belarus — for the bottom line.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Warning! Snark ahead! Evangelicals easily offended by having their bigotry exposed should NOT read this post!
In 2016, the American Medical Association’s Internal Medicine Journalreleased a report detailing the health problems faced by LGBT people. CNN reported:
Researchers now have a broader understanding of the health disparities suffered by gay, lesbian and bisexual people. A recent study found that these groups are more likely to suffer psychological distress, heavy drinking and heavy cigarette smoking.
The study, published in the American Medical Association’s Internal Medicine journal on Monday, sheds new light on such disparities in a population-based sample of adults in the United States. …. “This study was one of the largest, most comprehensive studies of its kind to find differences in health and health behaviors by sexual orientation,” said Carrie Henning-Smith, health policy researcher at the University of Minnesota and a co-author of the study. “Our findings should raise concern that lesbian, gay and bisexual adults experience health disparities.”
The researchers analyzed data collected from more than 68,000 [67,150 survey respondents were heterosexual, 525 lesbian, 624 gay and 515 bisexual. The average age was about 47] adults nationwide as part of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s 2013 and 2014 National Health Interview Surveys. The surveys included questions about sexual orientation, chronic conditions, mental health, alcohol consumption, cigarette use and overall health.
The researchers discovered that gay and bisexual men were more likely than heterosexual men to suffer severe psychological distress, heavy drinking and heavy cigarette smoking. Lesbians were more likely than heterosexual women to experience psychological distress, poor or fair health, and heavy drinking and smoking. Bisexual women were more likely to suffer multiple chronic conditions.
“The data did not allow us to identify specific causes of health disparities in this study,” Henning-Smith said. “However, we know from other research that the experience of being part of a stigmatized minority population can lead to chronic stress, which, in turn, can have negative impacts on health and health behaviors.” The researchers hope that the data could help to inform and encourage clinicians to be more sensitive to and aware of the specific psychological and physical needs of gay, lesbian and bisexual patients.
….
Evangelicals have quickly and viciously used this report as “proof” that being LGBT promotes unhealthy lifestyles. Evidently, these homophobic bigots missed the line that stated “The data did not allow us to identify specific causes of health disparities in this study.” One such person is a woman by the name of Denise who spends a lot of time “anally” reporting on the vile, wicked, sinful behavior of people she labels sodomites. Denise is a Calvinist, the female version of Steven Anderson. Unlike Anderson, Denise doesn’t show her face on videos nor does she let readers know her last name. That said, theology and her obsession with oral and anal sex and STDs are very Andersonesque. In a post titled, Survey: excessive health problems among deviants, Denise opines:
Sin has consequences. Trying to go against God’s created order, suppressing the Truth with their unrighteousness (Romans 1), will have physical ramifications. They blame those who reject their deviant behavior, for their physical problems which is irrational. The problem is enslavement to sin, and the solution is to repent of one’s sins, confess one to be totally depraved with original sin, and cry out to God our Creator, for mercy and forgiveness. He is quick to forgive and save those who come to Him through Jesus Christ the resurrected Lord for salvation. Those whom HE sets free through faith in Christ Jesus alone by His blood, are made free indeed by Him.
Denise thinks that the reason LGBT people have certain health problems is due to the fact that they are sinful deviants. Denise totally rejects the notion that gay haters such as she are part of the problem. In Denise’s world, LGBT people are sick for one reason — sin!! According to Anderson’s comrade in the war against “sodomy,” if sodomites would just repent of their sins (which means becoming as God made them — heterosexuals) and cry out to the Calvinistic God for mercy and forgiveness, all would be forgiven and their health problems would disappear. Now, I am sure Denise would say, No, LGBT health problems are the consequences of their deviancy. Yes, Jesus will save them and deliver them from their wicked desires, but former LGBT people still have to live with the physical damage done by lifetimes of wrong-way fucking. I suspect Denise would also say that LGBT deviants should repent while they are young before sexual “sins” ravage their bodies. Get out while you are young, Denise likely would say. Live the best years of your life in service of the heterosexual God.
If Jesus is the “cure” for LGBT health problems, why are so many heterosexual Christians sick? Churches are filled with people who are sickly, suffering the ravages of countless diseases. Perhaps Evangelicals are sick due to heterosexual anal sex and blowjobs, Denise might say. Only married missionary position intercourse is permitted!Grandma Grace, why do you have cancer? granddaughter Evangeline asks. Grandma Grace shamefully hangs her head and says, I gave Grandpa Joseph a blowjob in 1983. Cancer is God’s punishment for me swallowing. If you want to avoid cancer, Grandma Grace says, never, ever put anything but food in your mouth, and never, ever let your husband come through the back door.
The very notion that LGBT people have certain health problems due to “sin” is ludicrous. I am sure that in the years ahead, researchers will continue to investigate exactly why LGBT people are more prone to certain illnesses. I suspect that researchers with find that AIDS, unrelenting persecution by Evangelicals, Mormons, and conservative Catholics, and lack of medical care contributed to many of the LGBT health issues detailed in the aforementioned study. For those of us who are heterosexual, perhaps we should ask ourselves how our health might be affected if we had to live in circumstances similar to those of LGBT people. I wonder, would we turn to substance abuse, suicide, and have increased mental health issues? Those of us who were savaged by Christian Fundamentalism (please see Are Evangelicals Fundamentalists?) understand how constant assaults on your humanity can lead to mental health problems and thoughts of suicide. Those waging war against all things non-heterosexual are the very same people who preach and write against any and all behaviors they consider “sins” against their peculiar version of God. It should be clear to all who dare to see that Evangelicalism, Mormonism, and conservative Catholicism breed hate — hate not only of those they deem “sinful,” but also hate of self. Knowing who and what they really are, these defenders of virginity, heterosexuality, and Christian America rail against the very secrets they hide from their fellow Christians. As is often the case, people who scream and preach the loudest against this or that behavior are often secretly doing the same. Stay tuned. Perhaps we shall someday learn that Denise is really into making her own clothes — which is hard to do without a good bit of scissoring. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
In recent years, I have done a number of newspaper, video, and YouTube interviews. Doing so exposes me to the wrath and hatred of Evangelical zealots, especially of the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) variety. To be fair, I also receive a number of positive comments, especially about my beard and sexiness. 🙂 Evangelical zealots typically attack my motives and character, often calling me names. Such people are fond of saying I am a liar; that they know me personally and know that my story is not true. Of course, these people never — I MEAN NEVER — come out of the shadows so I can confront my accusers. Instead, they hide in their parent’s basement, hurling invectives my way from their IBM 286 computer with a dial-up modem.
Over the coming months, I have two interviews on the calendar — Loki-willing. Like it or not, I am considered an expert on the IFB church movement. I’ll have reporters call me asking for background on the movement. One reporter emailed me for weeks, asking me to define IFB specific words he was unfamiliar with. I gladly obliged him.
Two months ago, McKinnon Mitchell interviewed me for his documentary on young-earth creationist, convicted felon, and wife-beater Kent Hovind. Hovind and I both went to Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan in the 1970s. Midwestern is an IFB institution. I was able to provide McKinnon background information on the people, beliefs, and churches that influenced Hovind. I thought our interview went well. McKinnon is a delightful man. I wished he lived near me. I would love to take him out for dinner and shoot the breeze.
If you haven’t seen my interview, you can view it on YouTube.
I want to focus on comments by someone named Rod Almond found on McKinnon’s first video:
Rod Almond, of course, is a fake name, possibly a reference to the “almond rod” found in the Bible. I have no idea who he is. Almond states:
He personally knows me
I am not to be trusted
I am full of bullshit
My goals (on this blog) are self-serving
I have no desire to help people
I am a liar
I am self-serving
He knows people I have personally lied to
He knows people I have trashed and used for selfish purposes
I am a sensationalist
and . . .
Damn, what comes after the “and”? 🙂
Over the past fifteen years, I have had a few Rod Almonds hurl accusations at me, always using fake names to attack my character and spread lies about me. One person said they were a former parishioner, another said they attended church with me at the Newark Baptist Temple in the early 1980s. Not one of these Rod Almonds will put their real name to their accusations. Why is that? If I have hurt someone, I genuinely want to know so I can make things right. I want to make sure that any misunderstandings are corrected. Despite offering them an opportunity to engage me on my alleged offenses, not one of them has been willing to do so. Instead, they lurk in the shadows, hurling rocks at me, along with my wife, children, and the readers of this blog.
Long-time readers of this blog know that I am an open, honest man. I’ve made mistakes — lots of them — in my life. I have gone out of my way to atone for my “sins.” In fact, this blog can be viewed as a fifteen-year act of penance. I write under my own name. I don’t hide from my past or present life. Anyone can contact me via the CONTACT page. I am literally a click or two away. Thus, I can’t help but conclude that the Rod Almonds of the world are not honest interlocutors; their objective is to cause harm or hurt. To such people I say, fuck off. 🙂
If you are someone who wants me to atone for some perceived “sin,” please contact me so we can talk. If not, I will assume you are a dishonest person who just wants to bitch, moan, and complain; a person whose only objective is to cause harm.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Today, I found two discussions about me on Baptist Board from 2014 and 2016, respectively, while doing an Internet search on my name. What follows are excerpts from these discussions. Many of the men discussing me are Baptist pastors. Lies, distortions, attacks on my character, with a few thoughtful comments sprinkled in. Granted, these discussions are eight and six years old, so the commenters did not have the breadth of autobiographical material that is available today. Would their opinions about me have changed if they had more in-depth posts about my story to read? Maybe, but I doubt it.
Give their comments a read and let me know what you think. All spelling and grammar in the original.
Enjoy. 🙂 And for the record, Earth, Wind, and Fire is a fucking prick. 🙂
2014 — Pastor Turned Atheist
Earth Wind and Fire:
Interesting read…this guy was a Baptist pastor….so what are your thoughts?:
Ooooh, another let’s-indict-believers-and-elevate-the-vomitus-of-the-apostate thread.
We are not commanded to live for unbelievers. We are commanded to live for the believer, specifically, the one who is weak in the faith. Willing to forgo your beer for his sake?
Revmitchell:
That is baloney. Based on what I have seen so far there is no real complaint to be made. Just someone wanting to tear down Christians and the church. Otherwise specifics could be given.
Winman:
Ok, you will hate me of course, but this guy was a Calvinist, so that might have made a difference.
So, this guy not only converted over to Calvinism, but it also seem he converted to Lordship Salvation with it’s extreme stress on performance. This may have had a lot to do with this fellow falling away from Christianity.
He does indicate in this particular article that he and his wife having many children, believing this was obeying the Lord might have been the first crack in his faith.
Again, get mad if you want, but there is a big difference between being a Calvinist, and a non-Calvinist. If I had first heard Calvinism preached, I do not believe I would have ever become a Christian.
That said, and to be fair, this doctrine of having a “quiverfull” of children is not limited to Calvinistic Christians, and I ought to know. I have eight children myself. This seems to be what first started his discouragement with the faith.
But I could see an extreme stress on Lordship driving any person away.
I read all four articles of how he left the faith, plus several other articles. I believe he tells us what really caused his shift in beliefs, and that was reading many, many books outside the Bible.
Interesting articles, and I do respect this fellow for his honesty.
Van:
From professing Christian to professing Atheist is a good read.
First he was not taught that turning and trusting requires a full blown comment to Christ, as our only priority rather than one of our priorities. Easy Believism claimed another young victim.
Next, he went from the frying pan to the fire, switching to 5 point Calvinism. Which again demonstrates he relied on the writings and thoughts of others (Calvinist books) rather than learning how to critically read God’s inspired word which is trustworthy and reliable and authoritative for living our lives.
Aaron:
My experience is that folks who blame Christians for leaving faith are simply making excuses for their own vices, bitterness and unbelief. Why doesn’t he just say, I don’t believe it? Why the whiny-butt-you’re-all-a-bunch-of-hypocrites rant?
Just let Bruce go. If he leaves Christianity, he never really was one.
If Adam couldn’t point at Eve, much less can Bruce point at Christ’s Bride.
Earth Wind and Fire
Ahhhhh, didn’t you see the DONATIONS button on the right hand side of the blog?
Zaac:
I don’t understand the confusion. He was quite clear. The lives of many Christians look like the lives of the lost. What details are needed? Look at the person you think is a heathen and recognize that when the average lost person looks at the life of a person who says he is a follower of Christ, he doesn’t see anything different.
We excuse away our drinking. We excuse away our smoking. We excuse away what we watch. We excuse away what we listen to. We excuse away why we disrespect authority. We excuse away how we support a man who rejects Jesus while purporting to still want folks to come to Christ. We excuse away the way we dress. We excuse away our prejudices. We excuse away our lack of love. We excuse away our judging outside the church. We excuse away our gluttony…our gossipping…and our phonyness. We excuse away our desire to win an argument as defense of the faith. We excuse away our nastyness in how we respond to others. We excuse away the truth and ask for unneeded examples when we well know exactly what is being talked about.
Just to name a few.
He is absolutely correct. The folks in the church look a whole lot like the folks outside the church.
Zaac:
Because that’s what he experienced. People expect to see something different when they go to the church. And lately all they are seeing is folks whose lives look no different than their own.
I mean personally I think some of you have got the nastiest dispositions I’ve ever seen and if I were questioning my faith and encountered a bunch of folks in church who act like some of you, i could understand someone leaving.
Earth Wind and Fire:
If what? Can you convince him better than the Holy Spirit can? See Aaron views him as a reprobate……do you know what that is? Here is where ones point of view as to understanding scripture comes into play…..and I find the whole thing fascinating!
And Go Further with this……look at his wife & her present position & prospective. Then note that they were both raised up in the Fundy church……could there have been any subtle indoctrination going on there? Again utterly fascinating….. From Fundy Baptist Pastor to avowed Atheist. Track the progression……its fun.
The reason this fellow became an atheist is because he lost faith that the Bible was inerrant, inspired word of God.
That is why I am a King James only, because I MUST believe that God’s perfect and preserved word is in the world today. If I believed it was not, I would throw my Bible in the trashcan and live any way I want.
Now, don’t turn this into a versions debate, I am just saying I can understand this fellow’s point of view. He allowed men to convince him the Bible is not really true, and that very moment his faith failed.
Inspector Javert:
1.) I’m not interested in the carping of Christ-haters. When I was younger, I used to take the accusation and verbal vomitus against Christ’s sheep seriously.
I have since learned that The servants of Satan are constantly searching for ways to excuse their sin and attack the body of Christ. I do not believe in their intellectual honesty, and I care nothing for what they have to say against Christ’s children.
2.) This is (like most accusations against the believers) simply a “but, but, but you people are hypocrites!!” complaint.
“Hypocrisy” is the only concern of those with no morals. It provides the godless with the chance to preen themselves over their goodness since all it takes to not be a “hypocrite” is to have no morality and no moral standards whatsoever.
Call him what you will……but Ted Bundy was no “hypocrite”. He was merely a rapist and murderer.
This man is pointing out the failure of Christians to be perfect as an excuse to live a life for himself and exalt himself against the knowlege of God. Men like this are a dime a dozen…and there are probably 1,000 blogs with men just like him:
Sacrificing their children to the fires of Molech while accusing God’s people of not being perfect.
I simply rejoice that he no longer poisons the pulpit in one of God’s Churches.
Inspector Javert:
The blogger probably doesn’t really have any, that’s why.
The blogger is falling back on a commonly used excuse that he has learned will soothe his conscience. (And he knows all too often that modern Christians will fall for it and laud him for trashing them and the God they serve). He probably has nothing but generalized accusations which cannot be verified or compared nor defended against.
For every imperfect carnal Christian he knows, he can probably point to just as many who live up-standing lives which honor Christ. He won’t want to dwell on specifics….he just wants to latch onto a convenient excuse.
Were he to break down the specifics….he probably knows MANY MANY truly Godly loving wonderful Christian people. I know I do….I see them in Churches everywhere I go.
Annsni:
I think there was an even stronger reason: He was trying to make God meet HIS terms.
JamesL:
I read the article, and it seems to me that the pastor-turned-agnostic/atheist was trying to reconcile tradition with scripture, and simply couldn’t.
He was bound in the shackles of confusion, unable to answer tough questions about evil and sin, supposed righteousness that still looks very evil, carnality in a supposedly righteous saint, worldliness in so many children of God.
I could once relate to his appetite for intellectualism, love of knowledge, his love for books and appreciation for scholarly authority. He wanted to have concrete answers for life’s tough questions, and thought that men could adequately provide them.
I’ve read Bart Ehrman and Elaine Pagels, with their heavy appeals to the Gnosticism and all their empty rhetoric, and numerous other “scholars” with their pompous claims of authority on spiritual matters.
I’ll admit that those “scholars” make some compelling arguments that appeal to intellectual pride, with the feeling that one has been enlightened above all others. But in the end, they are simply shipwrecked by empty philosophy and a prideful desire to define truth by what seems right in their own eyes
Who goes to a self professed agnostic for concrete answers? By his own admission, he has no concrete answers.
What I see in that agnostic is someone who was convinced of his Christian doctrine by men, and was not firmly grounded in truth by the Holy Spirit. Then when other men came along with seemingly better rationale, he fell headlong into the same ditch.
Van:
From Easy Believism to 5 Point Calvinist to Atheist:
1) Embrace another gospel, one that values dead faith.
2) Embrace the idea that nothing we do will change the outcome of our lives.
3) Therefore embrace atheism, since nothing we do will alter the outcome of our lives.
One, two, three – its as easy as taking broccoli from a baby.
Rightousdude2:
I can’t see any rational person, especially one who came to Jesus, become an atheist. When I look into the night sky, I know, that I KNOW, that there is a creator of that massive expanse. When I gaze into a mirror and see the wonders of the human body and the miraculous things that needed to happen in order for life to exist [just the mystery and chemistry of blood, blood gases, etc.] are a marvel that tells me there is more to this life than what we see, feel, touch and assume to know!
The personality and love of God are all around us, and once a person reckons with themselves that there is a creator, and that creator is Jehovah Jireh … to turn back to empty beliefs makes me wonder if the guy ever, EVER believed beyond simple book knowledge.
In my heart of hearts …. there may be fleeting wisps of doubt [where the devil will try to whisper in my ear, our you sure. Are you REALLY sure?], but when it comes down to atheism versus God and creation, there is no other choice or option, at least for me!
In fact, with age has come wisdom, and I think the devil has about given up on me; because he got tired of asking me if I was really sure? Because each time he asked, I came up with more reasons to believe. He saw that wasn’t working! That’s the neat thing about the devil, you and temptaton! The more he tempts us, the more confident we become in our faith … because temptations [at least for me] always takes me back to square one, and once I’m there [at square one], the decision to give that temptation a boot in its red hot rear, becomes just that much easier.
Maybe that’s why he only tempted Jesus three times. Once he heard the answers, he decided that it was a hopeless battle plan.
So, IMHO, I can’t see a true believer giving way to atheism!
evenifigoalone:
I can kinda see it happening, in a way. Just going by my own experiences in the past with doubts, I mean. But in the end, God wouldn’t let me leave and I came out of those experiences more encouraged than ever before.
I tend to agree that a true believer will never be able to truly leave, but at the same time I can see how the arguments of atheism can seem very persuasive. IDK, I can see and kinda understand the thinking behind atheism, even though I’m quite sure it’s false. If I weren’t a believer and didn’t have a faith in God or experienced the things I have, I’d probably be an agnostic atheist.
Earth Wind and Fire:
Correct….he was always a reprobate but he has added whistle blowers to his resume….and now he takes donations! I find that hilarious….now he is a hypocrate with a tin cup.
jkdbuck76:
Sounds like he was not grounded and was double-minded. I’d sooner put a gun to head and pull the trigger than go to websites about debunking Christianity “for answers”. He did it to himself. If he truly is an atheist, then he was NEVER indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Bruce is gonna have to answer FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS on the dreaded Day of Judgment, and “gee, American Christians were too worldly” will not cut it. The goal is Christ, not our peers.
Here is the better thing: how many former atheists are now Christians and even pastors? Let’s focus on them. See what God has done in their lives.
Earth Wind and Fire:
The only thing he wants outa you is a donation
In 2016, is Bruce Gerencser saved?
jppt1974:
Praying for him to go back to Christ before he leaves this earth or Jesus comes back on the white colt! To get us all. Will leave it at that!
JonC:
While it is impossible for me to know, I suspect that Mr. Gerencser is a man who came to a particular realization prior to hearing those words “I never knew you.” The reason I say this is he presents himself as being indoctrinated rather than converted into the faith. I appreciate his honesty here because I believe it a legitimate issue in how we work with those “born into the church.”
As Christians we are, I believe, told to take the man at his words. We judge the fruit, not the heart, and are to treat him as if he is as lost as his profession indicates. We are fruit inspectors – not botanists.
JamesL:
This was posted here a year or so ago….by ? I don’t remember
Anywho…
I very much appreciate his distinction between theological fundamentalist and social Fundamentalist
he makes some unwarranted assumptions and runs with them, such as the notion that every Evangelical would agree with the idea that we are to obey everything contained in the Bible.
I know that is the right wing, fanatic, Fundamentalist, legalistic way. However, a true Evangelical who is sharing the good news of the Cross of Christ will recognize that we are not obligated to the Mosaic law.
But I appreciate the man’s candor. And I can sympathize with the fact that he was brainwashed by a fundamentalism which does not stand up to scripture
I think he was taught to have unrealistic expectations, and was not able to shake them. And that ultimately shook his faith
I think it would be very interesting to sit across the table from him, maybe a different doctrinal take would have yielded different fruit
Salty:
What is interesting is that over a period of a couple of years – he visted scores of churches – Bap, Protestants, Catholic, Mennonite – Methodist – you name it, he probably attended.
He did not find any that he felt comfortable in.
TCassidy:
agree, in this case, that we should take him at his word and treat him as an unbeliever. However, we must also remember that “by their fruits ye shall know them” in Matthew 7 is referring to false prophets. We can know false prophets by their false teaching. But it is a one way street. You cannot tell whether or not a person is saved by his fruit, or lack thereof.
TCassidy:
When a person can’t find any church he can agree with and feel comfortable in, we can rest assured the problem is not the churches, it is the person.
Tim71:
If this man is saved. Wouldn’t Hebrews chapter 12 vs 5 thru 11 apply? If you’re Gods child he going to take you to the wood shed and if you continue in disobedience he will call you home.
evangelist6589:
False convert who was a victim of the modern gospel message. Refer to Judas and a passage in the Synoptics of the many that will stand before him on the day of judgment.
This is all the more important why we must preach law to the proud and grace for the humble.
Bro James:
Ain’t no atheists in heaven–none headed there either.
Ecumenism is alive and growing on planet Earth.
The Lord knows them that are His, and they are sealed forever.
Now what? Pray for the lost and others deluded.
Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Earth Wind and Fire:
BINGO!!!!
You also notice that he is enormous! Out of that his health has been affected.
To quote my hero, Reggie Van Gleason……”Boy, are you fat!
BlueFalcon:
I prefer not to engage in the question whether he was ever really saved or not, whether he will still be in heaven or not. I have my own view, but those questions miss the point of his blog posts.
So-called deconversion is all the rage now. Several things seem to have led to Mr. Gerencser’s deconversion.
His parents’ divorce. He does not mention this as a cause or even talk about it in the linked posts. Still I would like to probe his mind to know if he thought at the time that one of his parents must have been not a true believer. Divorce is kind of like the unpardonable sin. One can do anything just about and still serve in the church unless one’s divorced.
His education at Midwestern Baptist College seems to have differed greatly from the real or critical scholars he read later, leading to disillusionment or the feeling that he was lied to or not told the truth about much of the Bible. In this sense it’s somewhat Ehrmanesqe, except that Ehrman came to his conclusion much earlier than Gerencser, probably much to Gerencser’s chagrin.
The Hyles scandal. He does not go into much detail, but reading in between the lines, if the best Christian man in the world is a damned narcissistic heretic liar, the whole thing is rigged and the fools are those who stay in the church to be preyed upon by these predators.
Many other scandals and in general the hatefulness of so-called Christians and many other adjectives to describe almost every church (over 300 apparently) since he stopped pastoring.
Readers need to read his blog for themselves. It is an indictment from an atheist who once was on the inside. Ironically, the indictment (namely points 3 and 4 above) is not unlike Jesus’ own indictment against some of the best known and on-fire churches of the first century (Rev. chs. 2-3).
BlueFalcon:
After reading a couple dozen of Gerencser’s blog posts, one conclusion is certain: Christianity as he taught and practiced is totally bankrupt and always has been, evidenced by his own words and ultimate experience of deconversion. In one post he talks about being angry at another pastor for not just having a TV (Gerencser didn’t) but watching it Saturday night when he should have been praying and preparing his message. Can you say, pharisaical? Apparently in his Baptist circles at the time all the pastors lived in separate mobile homes within earshot of each other on church property.
Gerencser has a long post on why he hates Jesus, or at least the “Jesus” construct he was taught and spent most of his life “living” for. His version of Christianity and the many pastors he depicts within that circle are, when you read his posts, picture-perfect of the biblical Pharisees, those whitewashed sepulchers, judging others but who are guilty in thought or deed of the same things for which they judge others. And it is against these hypocritical Pharisees that Jesus reserved his highest calls of condemnation. The NT Pharisees hated Jesus, so why should modern day Pharisees hate him any less? These posts on why he hates Jesus, at least, give a good idea of his version of Christianity.
Gerencser uses profanity in most of the posts I read. As an outsider looking into this man’s somewhat vulnerable posts, I wonder when this started or if he’s always been a proficient cusser. On occasion Gerencser confesses his outbursts of anger and verbally abusive language. What Gerencser has not posted much of, at least not in what I’ve read so far, are any private character flaws (he doesn’t believe in sin anymore, by the way). So on the one hand, his posts seem pretty vulnerable, but on the other, after reading them one feels like he isn’t sharing the whole truth about his inner self (not that that’s wrong — it’s his own blog, after all — but the impression he gives is that he’s baring all, when the feeling I get after reading is that he’s hiding most of his real vulnerabilities).
His main reason for deconverting is clear from other posts. He no long believed that the Bible was inerrant or inspired, and further that the God presented in the Bible was evil and not worthy of belief. Theodicy is a major problem for Gerencser. On more than one occasion he says something to the effect that if God could help his own pain or suffering or for that matter that of millions of others, he has chosen not to. That makes sense to him now, since to him God doesn’t even exist.
It is also clear from Gerencser’s posts that he is really into himself, constantly checking how often links to his blog are clicked, by whom they are clicked, how many times each person has clicked a link, etc. He really likes to state how much he likes to read, how many books he has read, etc. etc. I have and have read three of the four books by Ehrman he recommends (I’m lacking How Jesus Became God) — all of which are beginner and popular level — and even some of his he didn’t, like his The NT: A Historical Intro and The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, which are more scholarly, especially the latter one, which is my favorite Ehrman book by far.
Gerencser seems insincere in that he says he doesn’t want to disturb anyone or keep anyone from turning from Christianity, but if the God of Christians is really as evil as he says, then Gerencser himself is pretty evil for not trying to keep every last person in the world from believing in this evil God construct that destroys the lives of anyone and everyone who may be deceived into believing in it.
Reading his blog makes me appreciate even more Francis Schaefer’s The Great Evangelical Disaster. How prescient that man was!
I may read more of his blog as I have time. He seems to think of himself as sincere. He says he deals even handedly with both atheists and Christians, but just reading the comments section one can see that the atheists are allowed to use invective cursing and all manner of ad hominem attacks against the Christians, but Christians are quickly blocked if they happen to post a Bible verse (a violation of one of his rules). So his sincerity is quite self-contrived. I will never post on his blog. I wonder though why anyone would. I take that back. I can see why atheists and former “Evangelicals” from the same swamp of damned pharisaism that he hails from, jump in for the proverbial high-fives. I’m sure these at least provide a good level of self-gratification for his efforts.
Finally, I actually approve of his blog and recommend it. It’s easy to read and actually quite helpful. It is hoped that his blog will keep as many people as possible from entering the kind of churches that he was a part of and that the numbers in those churches will continue to dwindle until they are no more. And may the true church of Jesus Christ last forever. Amen.
John of Japan:
So you are accepting the depiction of an atheist apostate of the pastors in his “circle” without hesitation?
I don’t run in that IFB circle per se, but my wife graduated from the same Bible college, and I know some of the men who graduated from there. In fact, I knew the founding pastor, and he was a greatly used man of God. My wife’s pastor was on the board of the school for years, and he is one of the most godly men I’ve ever known and a dear friend. He is now retired from the ministry, and it is always a joy to spend time with him and his extremely sweet wife.
Frankly, I think it’s pretty silly of you to accept the word of a bitter, atheist apostate about Baptist pastors; oh, yes, and also to recommend an atheist apostate’s blog.
annsni:
I wonder if sometimes God doesn’t use an unregenerate person for a time to bring His message to people – similar to Baalam’s donkey. I would say this man was never saved – the “epiphany” seems quite suspect, IMO.
Aaron:
1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
As most writers do, I pay attention to where my name and writing show up on the Internet. From time to time, I will stumble upon Evangelical blogs and forums having “discussions” about my story or something I have written. Today, I saw a new search engine, mojeek.com, in this site’s server logs. I typed my name in a search field, hit enter, and up came the results for “Bruce Gerencser.” I saw the usual results, but sprinkled here and there were sites I had not seen before. One such result was for Whiter than Snow Appliances, owned by a Fundamentalist Baptist named Tom Frederick.
What my search revealed is that Frederick has a WARNING on his business’ website about me. Here’s the WARNING he placed on the front page of his business site (all spelling and grammar in the original):
If you have found WTSA by being tagged to a Bruce Gerencser’s atheist website then realize that he is on a mission to troll and dox us because I confronted him for his blasphemies. We advised you not to waste your time by visiting his site lest his atheism and vulgar writings, laced with curse words, get into your minds, start appealling to your logic then start corrupting your soul.
Read II Corin. 10:5 – KJV…
Shalom, WTSA
Evidently, my words are powerful. If Christians listen to them, they will get into their minds, appeal to their logic, and corrupt their souls. OMG, I must be Satan himself! 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Several years ago, a man by the name of Todd W Frederick stopped by to comment on the post Why I Hate Jesus. Based on the server logs for this site, Frederick read two or three posts and the comment rules page. While it is possible he read other posts, I have my doubts Frederick showed any interest in finding out who and what I am. As you will see in a moment, Frederick has already passed judgment, saying that I am headed for an eternal ass-whooping in hell.
Frederick has two years of Bible training via correspondence from Victory Bible College (no active website) in Roan Mountain, Tennessee and Bethany Bible College in Dothan, Alabama. Neither institution is accredited. I can say of Bethany Bible College that their curriculum is Sunday School class level. Back in the 1980s, I thought about finishing my degree through Bethany. After receiving the first materials, I was appalled to find out how weak they were academically. There are numerous such institutions scattered around the United States, offering easy paths to undergraduate and postgraduate degrees. Some of these colleges are considered diploma mills.
Frederick and his wife Heather do what he calls “harp evangelism” through a ministry titled Upstate Celestial Strings. Frederick’s wife is an accomplished harp player:
Currently Heather and her husband, Todd W. Frederick, participate in ministry opportunities with their local Baptist Church in Greenville, SC. They also enjoy working together as a team doing harp evangelism meetings for local Bible believing churches. Todd preaches a message from the Bible and Heather plays her harp. At UPSTATE CELESTIAL STRINGS, we echo the prayer of Psalm 71:22 with King David who stated:
“I will praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.”
Frederick is unapologetically Christian; and not just any kind of Christian. He is a King James-only, Muslim-hating, pro-white (his business website says “call … to speak to a live “European-American” citizen), Donald Trump-supporting Fundamentalist Baptist. I encourage you to peruse the Whiter Than Snow Appliances website. Besides having an atrocious 1990s website design — as all of his websites do — Frederick makes it clear that he is a Fundamentalist Christian businessman interested in only doing business with Fundamentalist Christian South Carolinians. Are you gay? Don’t even think about shopping at Whiter Than Snow Appliances. The front page of its website says:
The Colours of the Rainbow do not truly represent Sodomites (aka-“gays” which actually means “merry” or “happy”). The sodomite terrorists hi-jacked the sign of the rainbow and claimed it as their symbol; yet, they do that which is why Jehovah-Elohim destroyed the “old world” – because of sins [II Peter 2:5 –KJV], sins that the queers celebrate! They hold to the lifestyle of Sodom! The queers have tried to pervert the rainbow which is actually a perfectly good Biblical Symbol of God’s Promise to never destroy the earth again by a world-wide flood because of wickedness; such as Homosexuality. It’s sad, but the homosexual crowd does not have a clue about happiness (joy in the Holy Ghost)… just look at their suicide rate! Even attacking each other in their perverted relationships. They’re a very sad, not gay, people group.]
I am sure local LGBTQ people flock to Frederick’s appliance business. Not only is Frederick anti-gay, he is also anti- any other religion except Evangelical Christianity, and anti- any other political persuasion except conservative Republicanism. It’s fortunate that Frederick’s business is located in Fundamentalist Baptist, Evangelical South Carolina. Almost eighty-percent of South Carolinians self-identify as Christian. Frederick’s business is located in the small town of Piedmont — the home of Piedmont Bible College (a Fundamentalist Baptist institution with 740 students) — so I suspect the percentage of Christians is even higher than in larger South Carolina. Such behaviors here in Northwest Ohio — an overwhelmingly Evangelical area — would likely result in business failure. Local Evangelicals might have similar beliefs to Frederick’s, but most of them, at least to your face, are polite. (See Local Response for some notable exceptions.)
As I read Frederick’s email to me, I was perplexed by one line: these unfortunate events were brought about by Shaitan of whom you are now obeying his humanistic teachings. I thought, at first, that Frederick had misspelled the word Satan. Nope. Frederick says, in a first for this site after 38,000 comments and thousands of emails, that I am following the humanistic teachings of Shaitan. According to Wikipedia Shaitan is:
Shayṭān is a malevolent creature in Islamic theology and mythology. They are usually assigned to the category of jinn (spiritual entities). Apart from its generic designation, used with the definite article Al-, Shaitan refers to the head of shayateen, known as Iblis.
….
The term Shaytan has the same origin as Hebrew שָׂטָן (Sātān), source of the English Satan. However Arabic etymology relates Shaytan to the root sh-t-n (distant or one who goes astray). As an adjective, it can apply to any other being. The term “Shaytan” referring to this specific creature, may either be translated as “demon” or as “devil”. In Pre Islamic Arabia this term was used to designate an evil jinni. With the emergence of Islam the meaning of ‘Shayatin’ moved closer to the Christian concept of demons.
Frederick and I, indeed, have one thing in common: both of us are following non-existent, mythical beings.
Now that you know a bit about Todd Frederick, I give you his email. I will leave it to readers to make their own judgments. I plan to un-ban Frederick so he can so respond to this post and any comments it might receive.
You reap what you sow here and in the hereafter. I was right, you are ‘Bruce Nobody’ because you are unwilling to pick fights with other cultural gods, e.g. Allah; you talk big: aren’t they imaginary, too? So just shut down your website for these whiners about baby Jesus until you and your “brainwashed” followers grow a spine and declare war on all of the followers of god(s) throughout the world, or let’s just say the gods that are worshiped in Ohio alone. Once you and your devotees to humanistic logic can offend and persuade all of those outside of your “little box” to realize they have been duped and you can “free” them, as you did for one of your female converts to atheism then you will be “Bruce Almighty.”
Furthermore, you call my comments for you to stand up against the Quran “nasty, abusive words” yet you’re permitting your fellow infidels to run rough shod over others coming to express his or her viewpoints. An example of this is from one of your devotees: “Bruce, how do you deal with assholes like this Charlie asswipe?” Yes, enjoy yourself while you can ‘Bruce Nobody’ even though you are in control now as to who you can delete or block when it comes to comments and IP addresses but the time will be soon when you’ll stand before this “imaginary god” only to find that you don’t have a delete button for the terror you’ll be facing. Mock, be cocky now and talk behind people’s back when they’re unable to defend themselves and you will be reaping this, too. Remember: Prov. 1 26 “I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; 27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. 28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:”
I know you don’t like it when the bible is used, except when it benefits your trite, empty arguments but how can ‘Bruce Nobody’ be so sure of what you’re espousing to even though all of the cultures of the world have some form of having a creation account, writings that depict the “gods were angered at the original parents…”, a universal flood and even the evidences of antediluvian artifacts found in archeological digs in the Middle East. So shameful that you’re destroying the possibilities that your grandchildren to be able to make a conscience choice to receive god and a home in heaven because you are so spiritually sick. Just be sick for yourself if this is what you are irresistibly drawn to but to take your family to the lake of fire with you is what’s really “nasty and abusive.”
Like it or not, the truth tells you these facts and I am now your enemy because I tell you the truth. God didn’t foreordain for you to “suffer more than Jesus did”; these unfortunate events were brought about by Shaitan of whom you are now obeying his humanistic teachings. Continue in his doctrines and you will truly understand what suffering will be but it doesn’t have to be this ending for you: Jesus suffered your sin penalty in hell, baring in his body the sins of the world; thus, making all who repent and believe on Christ to be made righteous.
God is the purest form of love: John 3:16 – KJV. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God…
Sure makes me want to return to Christianity and follow after Jesus, right? Fundamentalists such as Frederick are only interested in hearing themselves talk. Frederick doesn’t really care about my mythical soul. All he cares about is putting a word in for Jesus. Fuck the atheists, let them burn in hell, people such as Frederick think. All that matters to such people is the preaching of their peculiar version of the Christian gospel. Little do they know or care how much damage they are causing to the Christian cause. Keep preaching, Bro. Frederick. Such beliefs and practices are partly behind the overall decline of Evangelical Christianity. Frederick might “feel” good after telling the ex-Evangelical pastor Bruce Gerencser the “truth,” but his truth is poisoning a whole generation of potential Christians and church members. I don’t need to evangelize for atheism, the Fredericks of the world are doing all the soul-saving work for me. If you doubt this to be so, consider the following review left on the Whiter Than Snow Appliances Facebook page. The reviewer is a Mormon:
Todd Frederick, the owner, was professional and helpful with our new stove, I will give him that much. We need a new dryer and fridge as well and were convinced at first that we were doing business with him further until on his way out he asked what church we attended. He did not agree with the church that we are members of and proceeded to tell us why we were wrong. As if this wasn’t bad enough, he would not stop berating us about it. He was absolutely relentless with this ridiculousness. We asked him several times to leave because he had gone well past being rude to being totally disrespectful in our own home. He not only would not leave, he had the audacity to tell us that since we were renting it wasn’t even our home. I could not believe the gall of this man. My wife and I both had to walk to the other end of the house just to get away from this man hoping he would eventually leave. The most unprofessional experience I have ever encountered. The saddest part of all this is usually when something like this happens you can walk away from the individual, but how can you walk away when the offender is right in your own living room and won’t leave when asked…simply UNBELIEVABLE!
Danny Mortimer, the Mormon missionary, just didn’t like me having some knowledge about his cult. Therefore, he has stooped so low as to smear my business. Fact is, Joseph Smith’s translations from Egyptian ancient papyri is utter nonsense and simply UNBELIEVABLE!
Here’s the true account of what occurred during the dialogue that I had with Danny Mortimer and his wife. Since Danny believes he will one day be a god, he needs to stop lying about people with whom he disagrees with. Otherwise, he will be like his brother Satan, a.k.a. in Mormon doctrine: “a spirit son of God.”
….
I simply asked Danny if he had good church to go to; he said he’s a Mormon. I said ‘I was going to invite you to Forestville Baptist Church.’ He said he attended there when he was younger but converted to Mormonism later and became a Mormon missionary. [Danny’s religion is known for challenging people themselves.] I then asked the question ‘What made you change from being a Baptist to a Mormon?’ His ans: “I studied Mormon doctrine and logically it made sense to me.” He asked me if I knew anything about Mormonism; I said ‘Yes, I studied up on Mormonism to explain what’s wrong w/ Mormon doctrine to our divorced neighbor lady w/ 3 children who were visited continually by Mormon missionaries.’ Danny asked me if I’d read the book of Mormons, I said ‘No.’ He said “You can’t speak about Mormonism until you read the book of Mormons.”
I then brought up fallacies in the Mormon doctrines, such as: How Mormons believe: “As God was, so is man and as God is, so shall man be.” Thus, they teach you can become “Gods.” They also believe that God spawns/makes “spirit babies” that are sent down to earth to inhabit human physical babies born to Mormon couples. Also teaching: each Mormon married man (even to multiple wives) will have children, being recipients of “the spirit babies.” Then after he dies, will become a “God” over his own planet, inhabiting it w/ his children and his favorite wife (who he will call up from the dead). They’ll then repopulate their planet. Thus, they will repeat the cycle that the “God in heaven is now experiencing.”’ [These doctrines are all erroneous teachings] I then asked Danny ‘Do you believe that you’ll be a “God” someday?’ To this he said “I hope so.” Then he went on to say again that I still couldn’t speak about Mormonism until I read the book of Mormon. Danny expressed anger because of the truth I was exposing about his false-religion, saying “You’re talking ‘Calculus’ when you haven’t even studied Algebra.” (Meaning: I was revealing too much about his false teachings and he didn’t like it.)
Neither Danny, nor his wife, ever once asked me to leave; instead, he asked me what I knew about Mormonism and I answered him/them. Not only are Danny Mortimer and his wife in a false religion but he’s also spreading lies about our discussion. Before I left, I told them that I also have discussed doctrinal differences with an imam (an Islamic priest) for over 2 hours (at the mosque). [Actually, I had a friendlier dialogue w/ this Imam than I experienced from Danny who exhibited much anger (being under conviction by the Holy Ghost that he’s wrong.) [I spoke w/ Danny and his wife for only about 20 minutes, making me late to church.] I ended the discussion by telling Danny that hopefully I didn’t offend him and I enjoyed our dialogue. I shook his hand and left. I’m shocked that Danny would act so child-like by ignoring our 1st Amendment Right to freedom of speech then go on and attack my business. Even the Mormons take liberties to try and make converts by incorporating opportunities into their work-a-day meetings to speak one-on-one to people they come in contact with. [Just ask anyone who has gone job hunting in Utah or Idaho.]
Jesus Christ has given the Great Commission. As a Christian, I’m to reach the lost, giving them the only hope that can bring salvation to them. The biblical Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, is that hope: Jesus Christ lived a perfect life, was crucified for our sins and was resurrected from the dead; thus, he is able save all who call upon him. Believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and you, who are sorry for your sins and repent of them, will be given the Holy Ghost. He will guide you into all truth; empowering you to live out the will of God. [You won’t become a “God.” Lucifer tried that; see where that’s gotten him.]
….
Yowzer!
Todd W. Fredrick is one of those rare birds who behaves the same way in public as he does on the internet. I have concluded that Frederick does indeed have an advanced degree; a degree in passive-aggressive behavior toward people who don’t line up with his religious beliefs. I am not against Evangelicals attempting to engage me or the readers of this blog in thoughtful discussions about God, Jesus, Christianity, the Bible, human sexuality, abortion, atheism, agnosticism, and humanism. Over a million Evangelicals have stopped by this blog over the past decade. More than ninety-nine percent of them never leave a comment or send me an email. And those who do? Most of them are argumentative, arrogant, judgmental assholes. Rare is the Evangelical who acts like a decent human being. I long ago concluded that many Evangelicals believe that I am beyond the grace of God: that as one who does “despite unto the spirit of grace” and “trods under foot the son of God,” and “considers the blood of the covenant an unholy thing” (Hebrews 10:29), I have passed a point of no return. I am a reprobate (Romans 1,2) who has committed the unpardonable sin. And since there is no chance of my return, it is okay to treat me like shit on the bottom of one’s shoes.
After a decade of such abuse, there is zero chance that I would ever reconsider the claims of Christianity — especially Evangelical/Fundamentalist/Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Christianity. Perhaps historians or archeologists will find some sort of evidence that might cause me to reconsider Christianity. Even if this unlikely event occurred, I wouldn’t return to the Christian faith. Much like an abused spouse, I would be out of my mind to return to a religion that harbors violent pathological abusers. Well, what will you say on judgement day, Bruce, when Jesus casts your sorry ass into the Lake of Fire? I will say, Jesus, many of your followers were assholes who showed me no love, kindness, or compassion. Some of them threatened to murder me, and others threatened to harm my daughter with Down syndrome. Lord, who are these people of yours? I wouldn’t want to live next door to such people, and I sure don’t want to spend eternity with them in God’s Heavenly Trump Tower®. Please, Lord, send me to hell. Let me enjoy the eternal company of Christopher Hitchens, Gandhi, my atheist/liberal Christian friends, and billions of other “sinners” who just so happened to have the wrong beliefs. I don’t like warm weather, Lord, but I will endure it as long as I don’t have to go to heaven. Thank you.
Of course, there is no Heaven or Hell. All we have is the here-and-now. And as a man who lives very much in the present, I plan to do all I can to suffocate the life out of Evangelical Christianity, or at the very least banish it to the fringes of American society. I hope you will continue to help me in this important task. We ARE making progress, as surveys show. The number of atheists, agnostics, NONES, and those who are indifferent towards religion continues to increase. The NONES are the fasting growing religious demographic in America. We ARE winning the battle, all praise be to Shaitan and Loki.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
According to Church of Christ preacher Al Shannon, there are about two million True Christians® in the entire world. In a post titled Do You Have a Snowball’s chance in Hell of Being Saved? Shannon stated:
One third of the world’s population claims to be Christian (2.1 billion). Yet, only a few of those have obeyed the gospel of Christ. So few that they are nearly invisible (approximately one in one thousand or 2,034,338). Now consider this, of these few who have obeyed the gospel of Christ, only a handful of these will be saved. And if only a handful will be scarcely saved among these, imagine how hopeless it will be for those who know not God and have not obeyed the gospel of Christ.
Shannon knows EXACTLY who is going to Hell when they die:
This means every Catholic will be cast into hell. Every Baptist will be cast into hell. Every Presbyterian, every Methodist, every Adventist, every Mormon, every Pentecostal, yes and every denomination under the sun will be cast into hell. These are the ones who claim they are Christians, but have not obeyed the gospel of Christ. The other two thirds of the population of the world who know not God will also be cast into hell.
Of course, Shannon is one of the select few who will make it to Heaven. Cultists such as Shannon always think they are numbered among the True Christians®. The same goes for Calvinists. I have yet to meet a Calvinist preacher who didn’t think he was one of the elect.
I have often wished that preachers such as Shannon could die, see that there is no life after death — no judgment, heaven, or hell — and then be brought back to life to live the rest of their days knowing that everything they preached is a lie.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Dr. Patrick Johnston is a former Ohio family practice physician, the founder of the Association of Pro-life Physicians, and the former director of Personhood Ohio (link no longer active). He and his ex-wife Elizabeth have ten children, all of whom are homeschooled. Several years ago, Johnston wrote a rebuttal to a post that I published about my views on abortion and personhood laws. Johnston believes there are no justifiable reasons for women to have abortions. Rape? Nope. Incest? Nope. Life of the mother? Nope or maybe. Severe physical malformation? Nope. Ectopic(tubal) pregnancy? Nope. Huh? That’s right, Johnston does not think women should have access to abortion services if they have ectopic pregnancies. In a December 2015 Personhood Ohio article, Johnston stated (link no longer active):
Many sincere advocates of life fall prey to the argument that abortion is occasionally necessary to save the life of the mother. An example of an ectopic pregnancy is often given. However, a cursory investigation of the evidence reveals that many babies have survived ectopic pregnancies. There are life-saving alternatives to treat the mother and her ectopically-implanted baby. Successful transplantation of the embryo from the Fallopian tube to the uterus has been reported in the medical literature as far back as 1917. We do not have to kill these babies to save the mother. Their cases is [sic] not hopeless.
Johnston also wrote an article for his blog titled Saving Ectopically Implanted Boys and Girls. Yes, really.
Johnston and Personhood Ohio tried for years to amend Ohio’s Constitution. If successful, Article 1, Section 16 would have been amended to say (link no longer active):
(A) The words “person” in Article 1, Section 16, and “men” in Article 1, Section 1, apply to every human being at every stage of the biological development of that human being or human organism, including fertilization.
(B) Nothing in this Section shall affect genuine contraception that acts solely by preventing the creation of a new human being; or human “eggs” or oocytes prior to the beginning of the life of a new human being; or reproductive technology or In Vitro Fertilization (IVF) procedures that respect the right to life of newly created human beings.
So far, right-thinking citizens and politicians have kept the amendment and its subsequent iterations from being enacted.
In an undated article titled Curing the Miseries of the Mind: Anxiety and Depression (link no longer active), Johnston and his now ex-wife Elizabeth offer up advice to those who suffer from mental health problems. According to the Johnstons, the cure for depression and anxiety is found in the Bible:
If you are suffering from severe depression or anxiety, I want to let you know that there is light at the end of your dark tunnel – and it’s not found in a pill! The God who created you loves you, and does not want you to be miserable. I believe that God’s Word – the Holy Bible – holds the key that, if not cures, greatly alleviates psychological symptoms.
Ah yes, the time-tested Fundamentalist maxim: the B-i-b-l-e is the cure for e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g. Johnston admits that he does “prescribe a lot of medication for anxiety and depression because they help alleviate symptoms,” but he wants people to know that many physical and mental ailments have “spiritual roots.” The Johnstons list seven reasons people suffer from anxiety and depression:
Genetic and social influences (Yea! Dr. Johnston makes an appeal to science.)
So that the sufferers faith will be strengthened
Punishment for sin
Unforgiveness
Ingratitude
Unbelief
Excessive worry
This graphic is not Dr. Johnston’s, but it does show similar “Biblical” cures for depression.
The Johnstons then give their Jesus-infused prescription for overcoming depression. Are you ready to be delivered, fellow depressives? All right, let’s all get h-a-p-p-y! The Johnstons believe that the following tips will help people “overcome the daily onslaught of anxiety and depression”:
Write out encouraging Bible verses, quotes, or thoughts, and tape them up at your house or work, or carry them in your purse or wallet. Refer to them and memorize them whenever you are struggling with unhealthy thoughts.
Turn on uplifting Christian music. Sing and meditate on the principles of God’s Word. Praise and worship the Lord. Try dancing to praise music! By all means, turn OFF any music or television that saddens you or causes you to focus on your troubles.
Make a list of ten things to think about when you are tempted to think things you shouldn’t. Make your list very practical. For instance: “What will I buy at the store?”, “Where will we go on our next vacation?”, “What will I say to my friend/neighbor/family member next time we speak?”, etc. Always have this list on hand to refer to when tempted to be anxious, depressed, or angry.
Occupy yourself with a big project or many projects that direct your mind off of yourself and onto others. There is no end to the number of nursing home residents, hospitalized patients, struggling families, volunteer organizations, and ministries who need a letter or a helping hand. Do not sit around and wait for your problems to disappear. Busy yourself with projects and invest your time in caring for others.
Always fight the tendency to pity yourself. You will find one hundred reasons to believe that self-pity will make you feel better but it never solves anything. When tempted to pity yourself, think of others you know who are in much worse circumstances (i.e. the paralyzed teenager, the young husband who just lost his wife, Christians who are persecuted for their faith in China, Cuba, or Indonesia, etc.). Make a list of such people and remind yourself of how blessed you are. Stop and take a moment to pray for those who are less fortunate than yourself.
Journal!! Write out your thoughts, regardless of how troubling or embarrassing they may be. Often, when you see on paper what is going on in your head, you will be surprised by how manageable your problem is through changing your way of thinking!
A few good Scriptures on topics of importance are listed below for your edification. Suffering: 1 Pet. 4:12-16, Rom. 8:17-18, 2 Cor. 4:17, James 1:2-4 Forgiveness/Mercy: Matt. 6:14-15, Matt. 18:21-22, Heb. 8:12, Prov. 11:19, James 5:9 Thankfulness: Phil. 4:11, Heb. 13:5, Rom. 1:21 Fear/Worry/Doubt: Matt. 6:25-34, Phil. 4:6-7, 2 Tim. 1:7, I Cor. 10:13
Certainly, some of the advice offered by the Johnstons can often help alleviate the effects (not the cause) of anxiety and depression. However, make no mistake about it, the Johnstons believe that the Christian God and the Bible are the CURE for those suffering from mental difficulties. I suspect that Dr. Johnston tells depressives who are not Christians that Jesus can and will cure what ails them. For those who are Christians, Johnston tells them to put mind over matter and remember that there are always people worse off than you. Trust Jesus and all will be well.
If Johnston is prescribing God and the Bible as a cure for anxiety and depression then he is committing medical malpractice. His patients should expect treatment by a doctor thoroughly grounded in the scientific method. Using the tips mentioned above to “cure” depression might work for a time, but true healing comes through counseling, behavior modification, and, if warranted, psychotropic drugs. As someone who has suffered from depression for most of my adult life — both as a Christian pastor and as an atheist — I know that the sort of Christian voodoo offered by Johnston does not cure depression. If Johnston objects to what I have said here, he is free to present empirical data that suggests otherwise. Until then, Dr. Johnston’s tips for curing anxiety and depression should be viewed in the same light as the chants and gimmickry of witch doctors.
Note
We know the Johnstons personally. We attended church with them in 2004-2005 at Faith Bible Church in Jersey, Ohio. Faith Bible is a family-centric, Reformed Baptist congregation.
Elizabeth filed for divorce in 2020, saying “he [Patrick] has been repeatedly unfaithful to me, as well as psychologically and emotionally abusive.”
After repeatedly taking him back, covering for him, preserving his reputation, and forgiving him of adultery, pornography and sexual immorality, which began 16 years ago, I have been forced to come to the harsh realization that I’ve done all I can and am entrusting Him to my Savior! I don’t share this to harm or humiliate, but to help explain why I, a Christian woman who hates divorce, have decided to separate and pursue a divorce.
The deception and aggression has recently gotten very unhealthy, so I am being forced for the sake of my children to make the hardest decision of my life. To stay at this point would be more harmful to my children than to separate. I will be blasted for not staying married. Don’t listen to the critics, and just pray for us instead.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
