Church of Christ Preacher Al Shannon Says Women Who Dress “Immodestly” Risk Rape by Lustful Men

Church of Christ preacher Al Shannon wants pubescent teen girls and women to know that if they dress “immodestly” and are raped it is their fault. And if parents don’t teach their girls to dress modestly and they end up being impregnated by Christian horndogs it is the fault of lax mothers and untrained daughters. Shannon writes:

Mothers with young girls will do them a real favor by teaching them while little to learn to dress in modest apparel. It just may keep your unmarried daughter from being raped or getting pregnant out of wedlock.

Shannon also wants sexually aware girls and women to know that if they dress inappropriately and some poor, hapless, weak, pathetic teenage boy or man lusts after them, it is their fault. Shannon writes:

The Bible teaches that we must dress in modest apparel. “In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shame facedness and sobriety” (1 Tim. 2:9). A failure to dress properly induces others to sin. Mary Quant, the London fashion designer and mother of the miniskirt said, “Mini-clothes are symbolic of those girls who want to seduce a man . . . and leads to sex.

Modesty Enforcer Shannon also wants teen girls and women to know that if they wear skimpy bathing suits they shouldn’t be surprised if teen boys and men lust after them and want to fuck them. Shannon warns:

Women on board the hi-jacked pleasure ship Santa Maria left off wearing “enticing clothing of shorts, halters and swim suits” and stayed out of the ship’s pool for fear the rebels might have designs on them sexually! This was in the 1960’s. If you plan on swimming, you need to pick a place other than where there is mixed swimming. When women dress in such a way as to entice men, don’t be surprised when they want to do more than just look! Women of the millennium wear macro [sic] bikinis that reveal every aspect of he [sic] human anatomy. In other words, women of today parade themselves naked before the eyes of the world to see and cause them to lust after their bodies.

What about how teen boys and men dress, Preacher Shannon?  Here’s what he had to say:

Fathers need to also talk to their boys about proper attire. Way too often today we see boys wearing their underwear on the outside of their pants and revealing the imprint of a certain body part. This is totally indecent.

Oh my God, teen boys are showing off their underwear by wearing it outside of their pants and this somehow indecently shows the imprint of “certain” body parts! I wonder what that “certain body part could be? Penis? Dick? Or any of the dozens of euphemisms men have for their rod? Is Preacher Shannon ashamed to say the word “penis,” lest he corrupt the minds of his readers? How does wearing underwear outside of your pants show off your penis any more than wearing underwear inside of your pants?  And why doesn’t Shannon mention men’s bathing suits?

While women continue to make inroads outside of the Evangelical church, within its walls they are still viewed as the keepers of zippers. If teenage boys and men are to keep their “certain” body parts in their pants, it is up to teen girls and women to make sure that they never dress in ways that will cause lustful Johnny to reach for his package. Once Johnny unzips his pants and lets loose his manhood, why, there’s no telling what he might do. And if he impregnates or rapes a woman he’s not to blame!  Remember, the Bible says in Proverbs 7:

 For at the window of my house I looked through my casement, And beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding, Passing through the street near her corner; and he went the way to her house, In the twilight, in the evening, in the black and dark night: And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart. (She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house: Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.) So she caught him, and kissed him, and with an impudent face said unto him, I have peace offerings with me; this day have I payed my vows. Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee. I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with fine linen of Egypt. I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon. Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves with loves.For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey: He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed. With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him. He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks; Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life. Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth. Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths. For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.

Never, ever forget that when men lust women are ALWAYS to blame. If teen girls and women would just dress like they did in the days of Little House on the Prairie or wear some sort of Christian burka, burning male lust would be extinguished, women would no longer be raped, and no children would be born out of wedlock. Or so say the Al Shannons of the world. Perhaps the real solution is for women to stay away from Evangelical churches, much as they would dimly-lit alleys late at night. If Christian men are so easily aroused that exposed cleavage, legs, or tight clothing causes them to lust and have thoughts of rape, wouldn’t women be safer if they spent Sundays at home?

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47 Comments

  1. Grammar Gramma

    How does he explain the rape of women who ARE dressed modestly? Or those who wear burkas? I’m sure it is still the fault of the women.

    Reply
    1. Brian

      I do apologize for saying it bluntly but Al is stupid. I wish I could offer more but searching to and fro, I see nothing but stupidity.

      Reply
  2. JR

    I have never seen a boy wearing underwear on the outside if his pants – what us he talking about? Superman???

    Reply
    1. Melody

      Lol, probably 😀

      Reply
  3. Melody

    In our church women wore headcovering just like that! (I clicked the link of the headcovering website.) For a while, I prayed at home only with headcovering because I had gotten it into my head (based on the Bible, of course) that God wouldn’t answer my prayers otherwise. However, I also was part of this Christian student group at the time and didn’t dare wear it there, so after feeling guilty and a hypocrite for a while, I convinced myself that it didn’t matter after all and I stopped wearing it. Long hair was disgraceful on a man, short hair on a woman too. I liked long hair on guys sometimes, mostly in Viking or medieval movies though 😉 and Jesus was portrayed with long hair all the time: the exception that proves the rule apparently.

    At the Christian student group I just mentioned, one guy said during a weekend (we were watching old Sherlock Holmes movies, since it was always tricky with students from different churches, as their are different opinions on which movies are and aren’t allowed) that a woman who was attacked deserved to because she showed some cleavage. I was appalled that he said she was to blame because of that. It made me so angry and sad, especially because I wear shirts with some cleavage sometimes, which made me feel unsafe around him. Anyway, another guy and I fiercely defended the woman since she was just wearing an eveningdress which was totally the dresscode for the situation and had nothing to do with anything. The guy in the movie was just a creep and she hadn’t played any role in the attack at all.

    In retrospect I do feel for him too though: he was pretty much all into all those modesty teachings and Wild at heart. And he struggled with this stuff too, but at the time, I just couldn’t get over it. He had this gay friend who’d stopped believing and he worried about that as well. Perhaps he was afraid to lose his faith too, just like I was back then. These teachings also really make the relationships, romantic or otherwise, between men and women much more difficult and pitch both groups against each other.

    Reply
    1. Brian

      Melody, if you chose to walk on a beach with no clothes on at all, would that be an invitation to brutality and non-consensual sex? Of course not! The whole bullshit control of women around appropriate dress is just a man problem that they have not owned and has nothing to do with the Gawds or lack of them. Some men are complete and utter assholes and live their lives like that…. Preacher abuser Steven Anderson is one woman-hater who claims to love women as God intended. If you listen to him, really listen and switch the roles, his idiocy is clear and yet I watch some of his sermons and he demeans women from beginning to end while they actually sit in his pews and take it. The long history of abuse that is at the heart of evangelical Christianity has such a long history that many women have no idea they are being hated and demeaned.

      Reply
      1. Melody

        I know it isn’t an invitation but that’s precisely what’s being taught. At that time, I didn’t know yet that it’s called victim-blaming. I hadn’t heard it spoken out that harshly yet, only the don’t let your brother stumble stuff. But never the outright: she was asking for it. Anyway it pretty much shook me to my core to hear someone I knew and respected say something so vile and absolutely mean it and not apologize for it either. I suddenly realized that he didn’t respect women at all, despite appearing to do so in a somewhat Christian complementarian way.

        It’s another one of those shocks because you’re taught that Christians respect women more etc. etc. and all that bullshit whereas you know somewhere that it doesn’t always feel like it. However, I was raised in an environment where women where more objectified in a pedestal ‘pure’ way rather than sexually objectified (not out loud anyway). So that can seem more respectful even if there’s a lot wrong with that as well. I’m sure you know that picture of a woman in a burqa and one in a bikini: both saying the other is being objectified by their culture (and both being right). Anyway, it was one of those moments where religion didn’t feel like a safe place for me even though I assumed and believed it was.

        Reply
      2. Melody

        “he demeans women from beginning to end while they actually sit in his pews and take it”

        I had a hard time understanding why women in our church accepted they were lesser and often argued against my dad about those she has to be silent verses. But when I was going to mention it at this teen group, since I wanted to hear the other teens’ opinions, and also my friends’ mum’s opinion, she went on this rant of why women had to be silent and why it was good our church had those ideas. I was so disappointed because I really hoped I could perhaps talk about it and find someone to agree with me. My mum would agree with me in private, only carefully (I was a lot more plain-spoken about it) but not when my dad was involved in the discussion.

        They really believe it. That’s all I can think of and that is so damaging, for both men and women. I also sometimes wondered if it was because they didn’t want to disagree with their husbands or perhaps see them in a different, less positive light. Because that’s what will also happen. In my case it meant that my church was pretty sexist, therefore making the people there sexist too.

        Reply
        1. Brook Nubi

          It became clear to ne that u and Brian are only intending to be Biblically failsome as soon as you guys supported each other in saying even a woman going bude on a beach or something shouldn’t attract rape. Christians shouldn’t speak so foolishly; not ever guy in public has a fear of God or is Christian, so u think those wont want to rape a naked woman?

          Melody, NUDITY PERIOD is farbaded in Scripture. Mary the mother of Jesus won’t wear a cleavage gown to a socalled “dress code compliant” ball of SUCH! Does God have to wait on humans to TELL HIM what THEY chose as dress code for their dumb functions? NO! God doesn’t care — He said no nudism, period. And that goes for all socalled BALLS TOO. ♥

          Reply
          1. Geoff

            If I was a naked woman on the beach it’d be the God fearing Christians who would frighten me!

  4. Connie

    I’m singing a So mode it be over on this here Bruce. Thank you for your insight.

    If rape were about sex the Al Shannon’s of the world might have a chance at sounding credible. As the intent in rape is always power as in I’m going to take yours now, he’s blabbing catchphrases and slogans.

    Reply
  5. Tammy

    So let me guess, if this Al Shannon guy got sent to prison, and some guy in there raped him, it would be some woman’s fault somewhere because of what she was/was not wearing. Oh wait, he thinks only us evil, slutty, half-naked, apple-eaters get raped. I hope he hasn’t commit any serious crime. Otherwise, he could be in for a rude awakening.

    All snark aside, let me be clear, no one deserves to be raped. No matter who they are, what they are wearing, or where they are. Ever.

    Reply
  6. J.D. Matthews

    I’m dropping links to this on ever ex-Church of Christ recovery page where I’m a member. We heard these kinds of sermons continually.

    Reply
  7. howitis

    Kinda related to this topic: In AZ they have this crazy street preacher who calls himself Brother Dean Saxton, whose shtick involves going on college campuses and standing in front of high schools and yelling at girls, telling them them that they need to turn to Jesus and start dressing more modestly, otherwise “you deserve to be raped.” (He also likes to yell obnoxious things at Muslims and LGBTQ people, among others.) A few days ago, someone finally got sick of his bullsh!t and took a baseball bat to the side of his head. He needed 8 stitches, and the girl who hit him is facing charges. I do not advocate violence, but honestly, this SOB had it coming. http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/bat-wielding-arizona-teens-assault-on-slut-shaming-preacher-a-hit-on-social-media-8340314

    Reply
  8. Brian

    As the comments demonstrate, Christianity is operating just as it was intended.
    Let us prey, for profit. Let us begin by admitting we are filth. It is important to begin correctly so Jesus via Pastor So and So can correct you on a regular basis, remind you that your heart is pitiful corruption unless Jeeeeezus cries out Bingo! and you win the pot.
    Brook Nubi knows how evil she is and that men are beasts without Christ. This is Christianity at work in the world. The obsessed fellow in AZ, mentioned by howitis, is a complete nut, a street creature preacher and his exegesis is utterly Christian, direct from the holy book. People have trouble enduring Christian truth and that includes many Christians. Alot of women think they should not be chastised and raped for dressing improperly according to the Christian way and though it is a terrible thing to have this violence, believers preach clearly that these women invite it and deep in their evil hearts might even desire to be violated and harmed.
    All this is sweet Jesus American Christianity being played out… In churches, the preachers are preaching about how Christianity is not properly done by that other church, those other believers.
    My dad (IFB-breed preacher) used to preach against the RC’s being so foolish as to pray to Mary. He talked about loving all those Pope worshipping people. It wasn’t for us to judge but unless we could reach Roman Catholics so they could be saved, they were doomed for all eternity… Let us prey.
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with Christianity today. It does exactly what it was designed to do and hoardes still flock to black book districts every chance they get… Why? To be properly harmed, to be fleeced and told wild lies.
    People are harmed not by disobeying God, by not accepting God’s Love with a capital ‘L’, but by something far closer to home, something very very human and nothing to do with Gods and Devils. That people are harmed in this life does not prove we are born evil and condemned. But Christianity wants you to believe that and of course reach deep into your pockets to pay.
    And regarding naked people on a beach, I have been to these dens of iniquity and you know what happened? It shocked me at how simply normal it can be to not wear clothes. People respected one another’s space and shared a beach without Christian violence, condemnation and rape of the heart and body.
    There really ought to be a pill for Brook Nubi’s, for Steven Anderson, for the manic, obsessed street creature preacher screaming insults at women in AZ. The really ought to be some meds. Bruce, I wonder if you have considered a series for your blog that would be called something like, Christianity Done Right, or The One True Faith. It would never be done and the fodder would be like the loaves and fishes.

    Reply
    1. Jim Wright

      No that would not be Christianity, that would a false group masquerading under the light of Christianity and under the protection of the constitution; Taking advantage of the laws in this country that is what that is.

      Steven Anderson preaches for the devil. Of course there is going to be people manipulate the system, but none of anything you said refers to Christianity. I agree with you for the most part, most religion is silly and joke and just robbing people of money. But with all that true if you want to believe you ancestor is pond scum that struck by lightening despite the numerous impossibilities go ahead but you are without excuse. You know this world and all its order didn’t come from nothing…just formed over billions of years. You have to be extremely gullible… All evolution is, is a resort for God haters to gather and say what their itching ears want to hear …

      For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

      And ill share a quote from you god George Wald”

      . There are only two possible explanations as to how life arose: Spontaneous generation arising to evolution or a supernatural creative act of God…. There is no other possibility. Spontaneous generation was scientifically disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and others, but that just leaves us with only one other possibility… that life came as a supernatural act of creation by God, but I can’t accept that philosophy because I do not want to believe in God. Therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is scientifically impossible, spontaneous generation leading to evolution

      THESE ARE GUYS YOUR GOING TO FOLLOW??????

      Reply
      1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

        Atheism and evolution are not synonymous. Countless Christians believe in theistic evolution. atheism is simply “disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.” From that point, atheists depart in many directions. Some even voted for Trump.

        Reply
  9. Jim

    Not once is there any indication that anyone ever said it was the woman fault, that was added by the author who is filled with hate for God. Even the Proverbs at the bottom is severely taken out of context but you can sure hear the hate like a trumpet sounding off in the author. Just because Bruce joined a false institution to start with and was duped by the devil into hardening his heart and never hearing the truth he thinks this means there is no God. No, you were just duped and missed the 100 warning to beware of false teaching and wolves in ships clothing. he gobbled up false doctrine found out it was false and then assumed its all false. How sad!

    Let us look at this reasoning. SO he went from believing in a God to believing life came from nothing, when nothing exploded and made all the laws and order today. Disregard the law of biogenesis, disregard the law of thermodynamics, the law of cause and effect etc.. A normal person can figure out what the preacher was saying when he was talking about sagging pants, that the individual has his pants down to their knees so that only their underwear is showing. Not once did the preacher even hint that it was a woman’s fault, not even once. I think it is great advice to tell our young men and women they should dress modestly. I doubt Bruce will deny that less than half dressed women draw attention from perverted people and increase their chance of being assaulted its just a fact but no one is blaming the girl for being raped that is the sole decision of the individual. But she is guilty of drawing attention to herself which is usually the intent in the first place. Who cares if people do not like the way facts sound. Just like if I say there are more minorities in prison, a dishonest person who likes to manipulate minds like Bruce would say that the statement is racist when there isn’t nothing racist about it.

    The Proverb is about wisdom and making good decisions. It starts off with the appeal from a father to a son to the father’s wise instruction to heart in order to keep himself away from the adulterous woman. Is this not good advice? Does not adultery cause both parties a lot of problems? If I was dishonest like Bruce this is where I would say, bruce condones adultery, blah blah blah. The rest of the proverb deals with temptations and using wisdom before feelings because the end is bad if he doesnt! Great passage.

    So Bruce you encourage your daughter to go out to school in a bikini top and thong and see if the school doesn’t send her home.. WHAT? You mean the school would do that? Why in the world would they do that??????

    I applaud the preacher he is encouraging parents and teens to be wise this is what this entire rant should be about but the article the preacher wrote was hijacked and manipulated into giving a false impression. Bruce should apply for CNN !!!!

    One of the most misleading, deceptive, articles I ever read. You don’t intimate me one bit!!!!!

    Reply
    1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

      *sigh*

      Jim tried to temper his comment in an email he sent me. Nice try. His comment tells me everything I need to know about him as a person and his religion. People generally say what they mean the FIRST time.

      Reply
      1. Jim Wright

        Oh no go ahead and copy and paste the entire comment. And let them read about I told you this very thing which is typical atheistic approach, since simple reasoning is usually out of the question. Bruce thinks he is a good judge of character but I had Bruce figured out immediately from his dishonest and misleading post about Al Shannon.

        I told Bruce to go ahead and copy and paste my message and twist it into his jargon, very, very typical.

        Reply
        1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

          You wrote the comment, dude, not me. You left the comment, I approved it. That’s it, end of discussion.

          BTW, I stand by my words about Shannon. You are free to come to any conclusions you wish about me. You think you are the first Fundamentalist to come to my blog, back up his honey wagon, and dump a load on my doorstep? Child, please. These days, I don’t even notice the trucks, just the smell.

          Here’s a word from God just for you:

          Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you. (Ephesians 4:29-32)

          What say ye, Jim? How do you square your words to me with these words from God’s inspired, inerrant, infallible Word?

          Reply
        2. Bruce Gerencser

          For the record, here is the text of the email Jim sent me:

          I am making this comment to ask if you think your blog on Al was misleading? Al never once said that it was the woman’s fault you added this to his discussion. He said parents should encourage their children to dress modestly and I agree that young teens and young adults do not need to be drawing attention to themselves. Of course it does not warrant harm to them at all but this is why school have dress codes and even secular people warn their children to dress modestly without even being religious. I believe scientists or experts will conclude that less modest clothing will raise your chance of attracting possibly unwanted and sometimes wanted attention. Maybe you can shed some light on why you feel different.

          I regret not reaching out to you first before commenting but I just found this comment link after my comment.

          Hey I am not a big fan of religion myself. Most religion is an atheist creator because they are unreasonable and do not have anything to back them up. You were probably duped by atheist site and the sites so called contradictions and twisted propaganda, or some other teachings. Your message sounded very misleading and filled with hate. If you want to use this comment to slander me use your ad hominem attacks feel free those things do not bother me and are very typical with atheists so I now what I get myself info by commenting on their sites.

          If you want to talk I would like to ask what it was that made you leave the church all of a sudden, or was it gradual.

          Reply
  10. Jim Wright

    Look Bruce I would have been gone a long time ago. But now since you want to quote verses thanks! But first you quoted from Paul’s letter to the church at Ephesus where Paul is encouraging UNITY IN THE BODY OF CHRIST. But let us keep things in context and see what he says about false teachers and scoffers and standing up and defending the faith.

    And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

    “Look, you scoffers, be astounded and perish; for I am doing a work in your days, a work that you will not believe, even if one tells it to you.’ Habakuk 5:1

    2 Peter 2:1-3
    But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

    But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9 But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

    I didn’t come here to throw verses down your throat, came across your site while searching a source; Read the slanders and misleading statement made a comment and was going to lead it at that. I am always firm with the other side but my battle is with your influences. I defend against falsehood which is why I made that comment. It wasn’t so much for you because Hebrews 6:6 informs the difficulties of someone who has learned the elementary things. You know like what am I going to tell you, that you need to be baptized again for the remission of your sins? I think that would have little effect. You probably rejected that doctrine from the beginning which is why nothing ever worked for you. My comment was more to point out the cunningness in your statement.

    Just in case Hebrews 6:6 does not mean that you cant turn around, it just means there isn’t much anyone else can do to bring you to repentance that is all on you if you have fooled yourself to believe nothing. Even your atheist colleagues will hang you out to dry…

    lets look at a statement from George Wald.

    “There are only two possible explanations as to how life arose: Spontaneous generation arising to evolution or a supernatural creative act of God…. There is no other possibility. Spontaneous generation was scientifically disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and others, but that just leaves us with only one other possibility… that life came as a supernatural act of creation by God, but I can’t accept that philosophy because I do not want to believe in God. Therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is scientifically impossible, spontaneous generation leading to evolution.”

    if you want to go this way Bruce its your choice but you know better. Something happened that hardened your heart. Do get robbed because it is not just you. There is a way that seems right to a man but in the end it is the way of death.

    Lay the hate aside and tell me what happened. No, more insults or trying to make someone look bad its futile. Maybe you can help free me from my delusion. Tell me what happened. I thought that is what your Evangelical (whatever that means) page you said you would answer questions. This is why I tried to smooth things out earlier but you insist on the verbals.

    Reply
    1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

      Seek and ye shall find. Try reading more than two posts and you might learn something about the man you are attacking.

      Reply
      1. Jim Wright

        ATTACKING? or responding to? I asked you so I dont have to search through atheistic jargon I have already heard and tested. I have been to these site before and have studied all the weak challenges and so called contradictions. and while I am here I want to demonstrate the desperation atheists have to slander God’s words. This is one of their favorite “contradictions”

        How did Judas die? Matthew writes he went and hung himself; but Luke says he fell forward and his mid section burst open and his guts burst forth.

        Judas hung himself like Matthew described for his purpose, and then as his body hung there he began to get real stiff and bloated especially around his soft midsection that expands after death. The rope or branch broke causing the stiff corps to crash feet first and falling forward his swollen mid section would hit the ground and pretty much explode causing his guts and bowels to come out….

        Things like this has some deceived but if the wanted the truth they could have easily seen this is no contradiction, but the goal is to get others to believe the same and the more the merrier.

        Reply
        1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

          Read, Jim, read. That’s how information and answers are gained.

          You’ve been a Campbellite troll for so long, you think your “behavior” is normal and appropriate. It’s not. Generally, I cut off people such as you after one comment. Please read the comment policy: https://brucegerencser.net/comment-rules/

          Bruce Almighty is coming soon, so you better say whatever it is you think Jesus has laid upon your heart. Soon, you will have no further opportunity to wow us with your John Holmes-esque theological prowess.

          Reply
  11. Jim Wright

    Thank You Bruce.

    “If you want to use this comment to slander me use your ad hominem attacks feel free those things do not bother me and are very typical with atheists so I [k]now what I get myself info by commenting on their sites.”

    Reply
  12. Brian Vanderlip

    Jim carries a heavy burden on his heart for the ‘lost’ Bruce’s and obsesses through his black book to bring misery to others. He would call it his duty, I’m sure, a word from above. It is disappointing to see this generic demise that is so common in evangelical belief. I much prefer the Christians who shut-up and volunteer in soup kitchens.

    Reply
    1. Jim Wright

      Well if you follow the thread you will see I didn’t come here to throw verses in peoples face that didn’t want to hear them I know the effect it can have on someone who is desperately trying to suppress the truth. However Bruce opened that door and by the way my Bible I’m currently using is a brown book so your wrong there too Brian. But you are correct to say I feel a heavy burden for those like you who have hardened their heart. In some ways I don’t blame you for this, although in the end it is your ultimate responsibility to do your own due diligence. I will be careful to use good spelling because I know that atheists are very very very concerned about spelling errors and love to add them to their fallacy of ad hominem.

      The reason I don’t fully blame you is because your heart has been hardened by fake Christians and this is recorded in scripture that we should not be surprised for even Satan himself masqueraded himself as a messenger of truth. There are many who give the appearance of Christians you know they put it right there on their Facebook profiles right next to their sexual preference “bi-sexual” or their favorite singer “little Wayne” etc. I am glad you acknowledge Christians do many good things like serve the homeless and give to support orphan homes etc…

      We of course believe our message and dont fall for the world coming from nothing and no purpose within life and we know there is a creator someone greater than mankind who started all this… Even secular scientists believe the universe had a beginning. Took them long enough to discover this fact when all along the very first verse of Gods word says “in the beginning”. Since the Big Bang is just a “theory” it changes when things pop up to disprove it. The idea that the “Big Bang” came out of a point source is now being replaced by the theory that space, time, energy and matter erupted from an event of ultra minute but nonetheless real dimensions. So lets look at this latter sentence..

      TIME-ENERGY-SPACE- and MATTER- In the beginning TIME- God ENERGY- created the heavens SPACE and the earth MATTER. its all right there so they are getting closer to the truth. When it comes to God and what has been revealed there is no “Evangelical belief”. so here lies the issue. Some of the beliefs are not taught in the Bible and ignorant people distort these word and it influences people like you. There are no miraculous healings today, no tongue speaking, no prophecy, yet we see ignorant people professing these things. Many just label themselves Christians and go to church on Easter so they give a bad rep to the truth, so I understand your frustrations.

      If you tell me you dont want to hear truth then I will tell you I am sorry and move on. I would be gone now but I will never run from challenges to my faith. And I do not have blind faith, everything I believe is based on evidence clearly seen.

      Have a good day Brian….. Leave me alone and you won’t here from me again.

      Reply
      1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

        Brian is my brother, so he is free to bug you as much as he wants. You, on the other hand, are an obnoxious Campbellite troll. I’m going to give you one more comment; one more bless your heart opportunity to tell Atheists the “truth.” Use it wisely.

        Reply
      2. Zoe

        Jimmy Wright: “Leave me alone and you won’t here from me again.”

        Zoe: One could say the same to you Jimmy. Leave us alone and you won’t hear from us again.

        Reply
        1. Jim Wright

          Then stop talking,

          Reply
          1. Zoe

            I’m typing Jim, not talking.

  13. Ami

    My gawd Bruce, you do attract some strange creatures.
    Another bunch of posts to file under WTAF.
    There are some brands of stupidity that you can’t fix, this guy has most of them.

    Reply
    1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

      Yep. Wasted a whole lot of words telling me what I have heard countless times before: Bruce, you never were a Christian and you are headed straight for Hell!!!! (Four exclamation points — very important in order to get the Holy Spirit’s message into my heart.)

      Here’s the thing. If the Jims of the world are who make it to Heaven, I say “no thanks.” I will take Hitchens, Hawking, Steve Gupton, and my many wonderful readers in Hell every time. Of course, there is no Heaven or Hell, at least in the “next” life. Heaven and Hell exist only in this life. The Jims of life spend their days bullying and trolling anyone and everyone who believes differently from them. Little do they know that their “threats” carry no weight on sites such as this one. Entertaining? Yes. But putting the fear of the Christian God into people? Nope. I fear Polly far more than I do the mythical Bible God. 🙂

      Reply
      1. GeoffT

        There’s little I have to say to Jim Wright, but I refuse to let him pass through thinking he’s unchallenged in his use of reason. I notice his glib remark about spelling; I’d point out that the issue with poor spelling and grammar in itself a problem, it’s that it tends to accompany poor reasoning, based often on indoctrinated education of the religious type. Anyhow, let me repeat his following quote

        “There are only two possible explanations as to how life arose: Spontaneous generation arising to evolution or a supernatural creative act of God…. There is no other possibility. Spontaneous generation was scientifically disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur and others, but that just leaves us with only one other possibility… that life came as a supernatural act of creation by God, but I can’t accept that philosophy because I do not want to believe in God. Therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is scientifically impossible, spontaneous generation leading to evolution.”

        No other possibility? Then quotation of something being scientifically disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasteur, an acknowledged great in the history of biological science, incidentally long before quantum physics had even been discovered.

        I find it hard to know how to begin unravelling the sheer stupidity of this comment. I think that fundamentally I have to point out that ordinary reasonable people don’t attempt to understand the origins of the universe. We listen to what scientists who study the subject say, we try and grasp the explanations behind the various theories, and we also understand that science works by chipping away a little at a time, and never makes a claim to explain everything. Also note, science doesn’t just present theories in isolation, they are theories that have stood the test of time, and best explain the EVIDENCE. I don’t often use capitals but I cannot emphasise enough that word. Evidence. Evolution is now factually regarded as a biological evidence because the evidence points in one direction only, and is so overwhelming as to be ridiculous to deny. Not that I’m suggesting you do deny it.

        So how did the universe come about? I have no idea, and nor do you. What existed before the Big Bang? I have no idea. Indeed, the word ‘before’ in this context is probably meaningless, as time didn’t then exist, and nor is the phrase ‘something from nothing’ appropriate, as we have no evidence that there is such a state as nothing. Indeed we struggle even to define it.

        Contrast that with evidence for a creation. We don’t know even that any god exists, and indeed it is a very unlikely concept. Why does the evidence point to a slow, evolutionary, development of the universe as we see it, and not a spontaneous one? Why was the sun created on the fourth day but light created the first? (I think there’s a particular stupidity about the writer of Genesis, ignorance that belied quite a lot of advanced scientific thinking at the time).

        And of course the age old question. Where did god come from? (Yea, he’s always been there, exists outside of time…yawn, yawn). Been there, got the T-shirt with bullshit clearly written on the front.

        So next time you ask about reason…think it through.

        Reply
      2. Jim Wright

        “IM NOT THE ONE WITH THE WEB-SITE SET UP TO MOCK CHRISTIANS.” ( Yes, I quoted myself)

        More lies from Bruce…. I bet you he cannot show you a quote where I said those words… Deception is his favorite tool… a misleader. Then he even said I used four exclamation points.

        Yea, Bruce you wouldn’t want to be around anyone who stands up to truth, and refutes the nonsense and foolishness that can have an effect on gullible people. You would not want to be around someone cares about others more than his own self. You would not want to be around someone who strives to do good, be disciplined, and responsible, of course thats your not the type of people you would want to associate with…

        I am in no way any better than you, and never claimed to be, yet you respond with libel and nonsense ..

        All your doing is repeating their jargon and twisting. Very very Ironic statements.

        No, Jim wasn’t trolling the web looking for an atheist to bully. Still shocked… I’m not the one with website dedicated to mocking Christians…. Your folly is ever before you. I came across this site by accident looking for an article from a man BRUCE ATTACKED… named Al Shannon, who happens to be a preacher in kingdom of God from which I am a part. I saw that article was twisted and misleading and I left a comment. I have been trying to vacate the premises but I will not be intimidated by atheists with weak illogical reasoning.

        Reply
        1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

          Jim said “I have been trying to vacate the premises but I will not be intimidated by atheists with weak illogical reasoning.”

          No you haven’t. You are a bully and a troll, a Christian zealot who is determined to have the last word. That’s not going to happen. So, you have one final opportunity to say whatever the sweet baby Jesus has laid upon your heart. After that, you will “vacate the premises” because I will approve no further comments from you. My wife has been in the hospital the past 18 days. I needed some entertainment, so you were it. She came home today, and now I’m too busy with her care to mess with you. So, wow us with your prose, Jim, but after that it’s time for you to move on to some other website.

          Please make sure your last comment follows the commenting guidelines. No lazy cut and paste, no Bible verses. Just wow us with your astute Biblical knowledge and understanding of atheism.

          Thank you for commenting.

          Bruce Almighty

          Reply
  14. Brian Vanderlip

    Wow, Jim, what a gift of insight and Reason you have been so freely offered here among Atheists and Agnostic folk. What a shame you are unable to see what is freely offered. The Christian brain-fog envelops those lie you who have fallen victim to the idea that you are a fouled and bad thing at your centre, in your heart. You are not.

    Reply
  15. Brian Vanderlip

    “So how did the universe come about? I have no idea, and nor do you. What existed before the Big Bang? I have no idea. Indeed, the word ‘before’ in this context is probably meaningless, as time didn’t then exist, and nor is the phrase ‘something from nothing’ appropriate, as we have no evidence that there is such a state as nothing. Indeed we struggle even to define it.” -GeoffT
    The words of Reason always fill me with peace, a peace that passeth understanding. ‘I don’t know,’ is just a fine place to rest in while questions mature and develop over time. I am quite content most of the time in the reality that I live primarily with questions and not very often with answers. My Brian brain rejoices in exposure to Reason given freely by others whose brains are more functional in these things than my own. So, how did life begin? I do not know.

    Reply
    1. Jim Wright

      Cut, paste, delete

      Reply
    2. Jim Wright

      Cut, paste, delete

      Reply
    3. JIm Wright

      “The words of Reason always fill me with peace, a peace that passeth understanding.”

      LOL- silly comment. You do not use reason and logic, if you used reason and logic it would lead you to the same understanding but because you fail to observe the evidence, this is the reason you claim to “not know”. For it is illogical to look at the order and design in the world and imagine it all happened by chance. I know that one of your tactics is to claim ignorance to as the universe came into existence but it is either it was created or happened by chance. I gave the George Wald quote for that very reason because he is correct there is only one logical answer left.

      You can say that you don’t claim that universe happened by chance but you dont get to just say “I pass on that one”. Ok, you don’t believe it happened by chance; then your only outcome is the truth or suppress the truth. No, one the in the world (at least with normal cognitive function) would look at the Websters dictionary and assume it was a random creation… Yet the universe, nature, the human body, the cell structure, which is far far more complex and say we just don’t know how that got here. You may not be able to put a name on it but without doubt you can draw the logical conclusion that it was INTELLIGENCE.

      Then once you realize the is a greater intelligence, you pick up the Bible and then your dealt with another amazing book. I once had a atheist tell me “haha, you believe in that book, (Bible) it talks about unicorns and aliens.. ” man the LOLs were everywhere…. Yet the silly man didn’t realize that the Bible he was reading was a translation into the English language. And this particular version (KJV) decided to use the word “unicorn” to describe a “one-horned animal”. and “alien” was simple a word to describe a foreigner, which we still use to this day, “illegal alien”. What is funny is when someone who cant name 15 books of the 66 that are in the Bible, yet they act like they are experts on its content.

      Now lets quote some truth and wisdom”

      There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

      ” For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.”

      Strike a scoffer and the naive may become shrewd, But reprove one who has understanding and he will gain knowledge.

      Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you; reprove a wise man, and he will love you. Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser;
      teach a righteous man, and he will increase in learning. The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight…

      Reply
      1. Bruce Gerencser (Post author)

        Well, I can name all 68 books of the Bible. I’m an atheist and an expert, Jimbo, as are scores of Evangelical preachers turned atheists. Sure, there are plenty of ignorant atheists when it comes to the Bible/theology/church history. But then, many Christians are ignorant about the same things. Of course, that’s why God put your precious ass on earth, right? — to educate ignorant, poorly taught Christians in Campbellite (Church of Christ) truth.

        Boy, I sure am glad Jim has arrived on the scene to save us from the error of our ways.

        Reply
        1. Brian Vanderlip

          No, one the in the world (at least with normal cognitive function) would look at the Websters dictionary and assume it was a random creation…

          My dad used to become frustrated with questioning sometimes and would resort to the ‘any sensible man’ defence. Problem is he was losing his senses at that very moment and getting upset. What Jim et al are so certain of may actually prevents personal progress. Uncertainty is a far more honest approach to things that are mysteries and marvels.
          I am most content to be uncertain, Jim. I really prefer to be well clear of your certainty.

          Reply
      2. GeoffT

        Jim Wright, you don’t understand reason. You see the universe and you see design, but only because that’s the way your brain has evolved, namely recognising patterns gave your ancestors a survival benefit. Unfortunately, as you now demonstrate, it can also work to your detriment. Take your reference to Webster’s dictionary. You know that that is designed by humankind because your experience tells you so. You have no such knowledge of universes, so you ‘invent’ an underlying explanation and you call it ‘god’. Then you sit back like a self satisfied 10 year old and say there you are, I’ve solved it.

        Except you haven’t. Apart from the fact that you’d then have to explain where your god came from (and don’t give me exists outside of time etc!), you actually have to provide evidence that your god exists. You can’t induce it from your conclusion, which is what your approach does, you must first say here is the evidence for my god. And don’t bother trying because there is no evidence.

        Reply
      3. J W

        Hello Jim,

        Did you see the following article on Quora about the sort of conflict you’ve probably noticed that you tend to get into when you deal with unbelievers? It came up on Bruce’s blog a few weeks ago, and it’s well worth your time to read:

        https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-get-angry-when-I-try-to-share-the-word-of-God-with-them-I-only-do-it-because-I-care-about-them-deeply-and-don-t-want-them-to-end-up-in-hell-I-feel-like-some-people-avoid-me-because-of-this-Is-there-any

        …because in a way what you’re doing here isn’t really about helping people or converting them or seeking God or truth or anything like that. It’s about convincing yourself that your current beliefs are right.

        Take your argument–and I’m going to try to paraphrase it so bear with me here–that somehow using “reason” and “logic” by looking at the world you have no choice to conclude that God did it. Both Brian and GeoffT tried to take a crack at explaining why this does not follow, and I guess I’ll give it a shot too:

        Basically, you’re doing something akin to trying to find Jesus in a piece of toast. Perhaps a Cesare Borgia variant of Jesus, if that’s your style, but whether it’s multigrain or French bread or whatever, it’s not Jesus. It’s just a piece of toast. People have this knack of seeing faces in things, that’s all. It’s handy in other circumstances. Similarly, the universe exists and has patterns in it, but that by itself is no reason to say that God exists or even more tenuously that He’s shaped and thinks exactly the way YOU think God ought to be.

        So your argument is just bad. It’s not a very good one, and if you’re being honest at all you really shouldn’t use it, because the only people who’d fall for it are those easily deceived by your bluster. But does that really matter? Nothing that I nor anyone else here could say would convince you that it’s a bad argument and shouldn’t use it, because that’s not the point.

        Whether you’re aware of it or not, you’re really just here for the fight.

        Reply

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