This is the one hundred and sixty-fourth installment in The Sounds of Fundamentalism series. This is a series that I would like readers to help me with. If you know of a video clip that shows the crazy, cantankerous, or contradictory side of Evangelical Christianity, please send me an email with the name or link to the video. Please do not leave suggestions in the comment section. Let’s have some fun!
Today’s Sound of Fundamentalism is an Anchored North video detailing a woman’s conversion from lesbianism. While the young woman in the video desperately wants to believe that the Evangelical God, by his oh-so-awesome grace, has delivered her from the “sin” of homosexuality, when in fact all that has happened is that she has allowed a few Bible verses to corrupt her thinking and scare her straight.
It is heartbreaking to hear how Christianity provides a love drug that only requires that you turn against your natural self and call yourself a sinner. Nobody is perfect and nobody needs to be told they are against God because they desire like sex instead of unlike sex. The Bible is just so full of shit when read in a literal, shallow way. I feel so angry and disappointed in evangelicalism. It truly can be a template for hatred of self and others.
I think if this woman is happy and content more power to her. People can disagree about all this stuff and just consider it a different opinion. She has her feelings and views, others have theirs. I say do what makes you happy.
I would agree with your sentiment IF, and only if, she has not been psychologically and emotionally manipulated. She needs to see a competent secular therapist, not one who thinks the solution to everything is book, chapter, and verse. I suspect, based on her statements about fear/Pascal’s Wager, that she has been manipulated by religious zealots who purportedly love and care for her. Remove the Bible from the equation and this woman is likely still a lesbian.
She’s a grown woman and can do whatever she wants. Manipulation occurs in all kinds of situations. Maybe this new life works well for her. Why not respect her decision? It doesn’t matter to me if she’s a lesbian or not.
It matters because religious manipulation and authoritarian control is harmful. In her case, it has led to her denial of who she really is — a lesbian. Until Fundamentalist religious beliefs are removed from the equation, it is impossible to tell if this is just a grown woman making a personal choice. I doubt that it is, you disagree.
There is a another possibility. This young woman may actually be bisexual. Also, it is not uncommon for young people to experiment with their sexuality.
I think the church should be a loving and supportive place where people can work this out in their lives, rather than somewhere where people are going to be pulled to were we think they should be based on a subjective interpretation and application of the Scripture.
We do need to respect people’s feelings and decisions. I want to add that I’ve also seen this working in the opposite direction. I once participated in a forum where the participants actually, and strongly attempted to persuade a man who was married with three children, but who experienced same sex attraction to leave his wife
. This, despite the fact, that this man actually stated that he loved his wife, was committed, and also experienced romantic attraction to her. Sometimes people want to simply fulfill their own agenda, rather than to consider the wishes or what might actually be best for the person involved.
She could be bisexual, but if she is her current belief system says such behavior means you are not a Christian and headed for hell. We must not forget that the Fundamentalists she is associating with believe heterosexuality and monogamous sex between married people is God’s ordained plan. This kind of thinking causes great psychological harm and is a denial of human nature.
I agree, Bruce.
If she is gay, straight, bisexual, whatever, her religion is still telling her that she is a piece of crapaper without Jesus. When you believe you are literally a piece of cap and that everything you do without Jesus is crap, that makes normal processes like examining your sexuality a lot more complicated. Straight girl who has sex with her boyfriend? Sinner. Hay guy who has sex with his boyfriend? Sinner. Transgender person struggling with that issue? Sinner. Depressed person who needs real counseling and possibly medication? Sinner. Pray it all away. Bury it. Bury your true self because your true self is a sinner, a piece of crap. This is the problem with evangelical Christianity.
She sounds intelligent and thoughtful. It sounds like she was rejecting several things about her former way of life. She mentioned the Bible condemning drunkenness-if she’d been a drunkard and then religion helped her to reject that, wouldn’t that be a good effect of religion? Would we be complaining that she’d been manipulated into stopping drunkenness?
She mentioned that some of the women in the Bible study spoke of experiences they’d had-I’m not clear on what that meant, but I’m assuming it was experiences they had had with men?? I think she said she started feeling like she’d been missing out?
The last part of the video shows her with a guy, so I assume she got married?? Anyway, she seemed to be saying that she wasn’t turned into a heterosexual but had decided to live the heterosexual life because she wanted to please God. Assuming her husband is aware of all that, I wish them well.
Who knows, maybe in the future she’ll change her mind again-or maybe she’ll be happy that she chose the path she thinks God wants for her. Either way, none of us are inside her mind to know what she is or isn’t.
Totally agree, ObstacleChick.
Evangelical christianity stifles differences and creativity all in the name of god. They discuss how everyone is unique while trying to get everyone to act and behave exactly like them. It is like that scene in Monty Pythons Life of Brian where Brian tells a crowd “you are all individuals” and the repeat in unison, ” we are all individuals” proving that most are just following the crowd. This poor woman may be bisexual and most humans are to a small extant as sexuality is a continuum and not just three points now pick. It is sad that she is letting her religion and six verses get in the way of being happy. Inwish her the best but she is in for a complete mind fuck if she really isnt straight or somewhere in the middle and eventually it will all unravel.
Love the Monty Python. lol
It could all unravel at some point, true.
Re “it is sad that she is letting her religion and six verses get in the way of being happy.” How do we know she is unhappy? I thought her former life was making her unhappy.
She was happy until she read the Bible and “helpful” Christians explained it to her. She says she was a Lesbian Christian, but found out that you can’t be a Lesbian and a Christian. Then she became unhappy until Jesus “really” saved her and delivered her from lesbianism. This is manufactured happiness/unhappiness.
Lynn, you are definitely an independent thinker, not afraid to speak your mind. 🙂 I love it.
I think there is this truth that people often have to walk through something to see for themselves, and to come out the other side. We can’t just pull them to where we think they should be at.
However, I’ve definitely seen this kind of teaching in the conservative churches do a lot of harm. Sometimes people truly come to faith. In their thinking, God is changing them and healing them from same sex attraction. This seems true for a time, but if it is not who they really are the apparent change will not be real or lasting. In the meantime, perhaps they’ve married someone of the opposite gender, and may even have children.
This then can lead to extra marital affairs, and eventual divorce. There is a lot of pain and confusion that can come into people’s lives. It also leads to spiritual harm and perhaps a falling away from faith because the person is not able to separate it all out in their mind..
Was the thing making this woman unhappy same sex attraction or did it have to do more with uncommitted shallow relationships, and other things contributing to alcohol abuse, other problems in her life? Of course, we can’t know from viewing just a short video. But, she is not going to get to explore these possibilities as a member of this type of Christian church.
Rebecca,
I agree with all your concerns about possible future problems for this woman; it could certainly all work out to be a mess. I guess what bothers me is the assumption that we know what this woman is and what will or won’t make her happy, and it irks us that she has chosen this traditional life over the gay life.
I would certainly hope that if she got married to a guy, that he is extremely aware of possible outcomes and is going into the marriage with eyes wide open.
As you mentioned in your last paragraph, I got the impression that she was living a life that she was not happy with-not sure what all the behaviors were that were causing the unhappiness.
Obviously she’s seemed to be extremely influenced by the Christian group and is now conforming to that group. Who knows, maybe that will make her happy from now on. As for exploring-she’s got the internet and seems pretty intelligent. Again, she’s a grown woman.
You seem to think that if someone is an adult that they cannot be unduly influenced or harmed by religion; that in the case of this woman, she is, of her own volition choosing to abandon her sexuality and embrace group conformity. I don’t believe that is what is happening here based on HER words about fear being a motivating — if not the primary — factor in her embracing heterosexuality.
Fundamentalist religion does not bring happiness, even if it appears to do so outwardly. It is a psychologically harmful belief system that fucks up everyone it touches. Im hoping she will realize she is being manipulated and controlled and get as far away from True North — have you examined their beliefs? — as she can. True North is old Fundamentalism wrapped in a new skin of hip and cool; a group that targets people such as this woman with their slick, sick multimedia presentations.
You were right to call me out for speculating about whether she is happy or not. That being said, my personal experience back when I was a christian involved a lot of faking it until you make it and I believe something similar may be going on here. However it really is not my business to tell her how to live her life but I can give fair warning about the consequences of trying to play it straight when you are not and it eventually will unravel.
What you say makes sense, Trenton. I think there are so many variables that it’s hard to say how it will turn out. Probably the biggest factor will be her husband-how dedicated is he to her vs. his dedication to his religion, etc. I think the husband and wife connection and strengths is more of a factor than religion.
I think it’s really hard for us to predict since none of us know them personally-all we have is a video of a stranger who has entered a world we are familiar with-so we of course suggest great caution. I guess I’m somewhat more open-minded than I was for a time re evangelicalism. I certainly still see the negatives, but I also can see the positives now that I’ve been out of it for awhile and some of the emotion has died down. Coming from IFB harmed me and also helped me.
It’s a complicated subject. Being part of a group is a huge influence and can be a force for good in many ways. Now if she ends up deciding the group is wrong, a huge factor will be her husband. I hope he’s wonderful and very mature.
I’m sorry, I’m finding it preposterous that we’re all on here explaining to this woman when she is truly happy or not. Are we going to dictate under what circumstances she can be considered happy? lol It’s reminding me of preachers explaining how miserable the worldly are: “They’re miserable, damn it! They must have God to be happy!! They might think they’re happy, but we know they are not!”
Greetings Lynn, I hear your concern. Sexual orientation involves many things for many people and cannot be defined in any exact way here on a blog or in church. Science observes a spectrum of sensuality in human beings and some people seem more hetero or homo and some of us are attracted to both sexes. It is a church that condemns us for being one way or another that I find offensive and this young woman is of course free to choose that self-hating, misogynistic route if she chooses but my suggestion is that the church is wrong to invite people to call themselves dirty and fallen. If a young person wishes to follow a path in sensuality that is more hetero after having chosen to follow a more homo path, then that is absolutely wonderful. That she chooses to condemn homosexuality and talk in ignorant biblical terms about it, is horrifying and does not deserve support in my opinion. I respect people who make a decision to support slavery as biblical but I condemn their ignorant interpretation of ancient writings. What I see happening with the young woman in the video is black and white flip-flopping that will bring her no peace finally. Why? Because she is turning on herself as having sinned and been a bad bad girl. What utter bullshit.
I am not saying she is not happy, Lynn123. because I am sure she rejoices with her saviour about her being found when she was lost. I am saying Christianity like this is a toxic thing and should come with warning labels attached.
Brian, I agree with what you’ve said. I guess time will tell if she made a wise decision or not.
(This is to answer Bruce (10:47 a.m.) I didn’t see where else to reply.)
I did go on youtube and re-watch the video and look at some comments; I also went to the church’s website. Re the website, all I can do is laugh at the difference from the church I knew-we were so very UN-COOL, and now everybody’s excited, young, sexy-looking, vibrant-heck, I wanted to go join in the fun myself! And when you think of the adults and preachers at an IFB church in the 1960’s and 1970’s and contrast that with the with-it people shown on that site-it’s downright hilarious to me. They sure seem to be having more fun than I ever did at church.
So…her version of God changed. She thot he was all about loving us as we are and real Christians were all about love. Then these other Christians showed her that he’s holy and requires us to give up our sins and deny self in order to be truly accepted by him. I guess she had focused on certain verses, but these other Christians focused on different verses. Then she said it all started to really bother her, then God showed her the truth-that she had to give up her sin. She also said that whatever these women were describing-I’m assuming it was how fulfilling heterosexual relationships were???-she said she didn’t have what they had and felt like she was missing out??
So, Bruce, you think they scared her like the Sinners- in- the- hands -of- an- angry -God -guy? I think you’re right. They told her the more traditional view of God-that actually he’s holy and angry and you need to beg for mercy and turn from your sins, which includes gayness. They convinced her that God had something better for her and obeying him would make her happy. Plus she gets to be part of this dynamic group of people. And if she had had rocky relationships with women, that was also a factor.
So, I’m actually agreeing with you as far as that. But where you flatly state that fundamentalist religion does not bring happiness–well,it did not bring happiness to many of us, but how can we tell a happy person that they are not happy? We are not inside their head. I think there are tons of very happy fundamentalists. (I mean you can see it on their faces on that website!…trying to make you laugh.) If this woman has “given up her sexuality” and joined this cult or whatever we want to call it-if it makes her happy, why do we care? If she doesn’t feel manipulated and controlled and psychologically harmed, and if she likes authoritarianism, why is that not okay?
We should care about others. We should care when they cause self-harm. As a humanist, I desire goodness and betterment for all. That said, I was once a happy Fundamentalist. Now I realize that my happiness was rooted in myths and a religion that robbed me of my self-worth.
The true mindfuck of fundamentalist belief is that very fairytale feeling of great joy and relief as the ‘faith’ is invited in, to wrap you in its loving arms just because you have admitted you hate your natural self and want to rid yourself of it! More Jeeeezus and less me, is such a sick sick choice. We are merely human, gloriously full of all of it, all the possibilities! If we have the good fortune to be cherished and cared for, we are able to assume our full humanity as it is very naturally. If we are fucked by alcoholic parentes or IFB extremists, we are not allowed to be and must struggle to assume our natural gifts of basic humanity. Religion robs us of our self-worth and feeds us low-down lies with Jesus smiles. When Gerencser says we should care about others, he is simply acknowledging an evolutionary rule. We are helped along and we help. If that is not obvious, then look at what has removed the natural way: Look at abuses one has suffered so that one can actually state that homosexuality is evil or that Roman Catholics are bound for hell. One can demean women and be proud of it, saying GOD said it. This kind of gross foolishness is called evangelical Christianity. Please, you Christians, don’t, please don’t pr(e)y for me!
Brian,
I respectfully disagree that “more Jesus and less me” is always a sick choice. It’s probably done a lot of good for many people, at least in some ways. I see the negatives of it also but also acknowledge some positives.
How would you help this woman?
Most people care about others to varying degrees and are disturbed when they see others doing harm to themselves. The problem is that we are not in charge of fellow adults and the decisions they make.
Re this woman-none of us know her from Adam. We ARE familiar with what she’s gotten into and…what? She’s not our friend or relative or child. We could respectfully comment on youtube, I guess, and give a kind word of caution to her?? Or, what if she came to this site and kindly warned us against the harm of atheism? She’d be showing that she cared for us and didn’t want us going to hell. Would we resent that she didn’t respect our decision? Probably.
Bruce, you have very strong feelings re all this-how do you see any of it being effectively changed? If you wanted to influence this woman, how would you do it effectively?
She chose to make her beliefs and decision known via a public video. By doing so, she invites response.
Nothing I could say would likely make a difference. She thinks she has found a better way. She is oblivious, however, to what her choices have cost her.
My goal would be to influence others through discussions about the video; to suggest that the freedom she thinks she has gained is actually mind killing bondage; to show that Evangelicalism is psychologically harmful; to promote other forms of religious faith that is kinder, gentler and does not require the surrender of personal integrity.
That sounds pretty good. We all have our opinions re the pros and cons of evangelicalism. As people who have been in it, we can certainly give our opinion about possible harms.