Last week, I wrote several posts about an Evangelical man named Daniel Kluver repeatedly emailing and messaging my wife and me. (Please see Evangelical Man Messages My Wife on Facebook, Another Facebook Message From an Evangelical Zealot, Yet Another Facebook Message From an Evangelical Zealot, Evangelical Man Says I’m Infested with Evil Spirits.)
Kluver wasn’t the only Evangelical zealot harassing us. A.J. Lively sent Polly and me his peculiar version of the plan of salvation, complete with Bible verses. I curtly responded:
Fuck off, A.J. You think I haven’t heard these Bible verses before?
My response brought more Bible verses from Lively. I replied:
I am not doing to do this with you dude. Want to masturbate? Please do it on my blog. Plenty of people there who will engage you.
Lively then turned his attention to Polly, sending her the same cut-and-paste lists of Bible verses.
I replied:
You are a fucking asshole. Now you go after my wife?
Lively responded thusly:
Do you not love your wife enough to want her to go to Heaven?
OMG, how do I even respond to such nonsense? There is no God, there is no Satan, there is no Heaven, and there is no Hell, so Lively’s Bible verse recitations carry no weight with us. Lively assumes that we will bow under the power and authority of the mighty inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God and submit ourselves to Jesus. He refuses to acknowledge that we have “been there, done that.” We reject the central claims of Christianity. We reject the notion that we are sinners in need of salvation. Lively knows these things, yet chooses to harass us anyway.
I long ago concluded that the Kluvers and Livelys of the world have a pathological need to hear themselves talk; that they doubt their own beliefs, and use harassing unbelievers on the Internet as a way to cover up their own questions, fears, and doubts. What better way to soothe your doubts than by trying to evangelize an Evangelical-pastor-turned-atheist and his wife? I can safely say that Lively hasn’t won a single unbeliever to Jesus using this approach — especially not someone like Polly or me. If Lively wants to reach us with his brand of magic, he’s going to have to pull a different rabbit out of his hat. The Bible–verse-Wabbit just ain’t going to cut it.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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A.J. It doesn’t matter how much one wants to go to heaven. You could literally pray every waking minute for the rest of your natural life, and end up exactly the same as the non-believers —
— Well, not -exactly- the same. We’re not wasting our time praying for absurdities like eternal life; we’re making the most of our real lives while they’re ours to live.
I’d like there to be life after death. But we have no evidence that such exists. People who try to browbeat others into their beliefs are just sad and pathetic.
BJW ……. I have to agree with you. But I do find it strange that the very people who attempt to browbeat others into their belief in a “god” or an “afterlife” are the very people who dismiss both of those possibilities completely by filling that “god of the gaps” with religion.
Why ?
Because they wish and pray for things in life. At no time do they attempt to actually accomplish this. Let me explain.
I am a “Neo-atheist”. Not a traditional atheist. I have absolutely no problem in the “BELIEF” in an afterlife or god. Just not a religious one. Yet, there is not a shred of evidence for either. But that is not the quintessential of scientific exploration. This is library science. What we already “know”. Science is the quest for the “unknown” because science has no knowledge. It is a tool to probe into the secrets of Nature.
There is zero evidence for extraterrestrial civilizations out there. There is zero evidence for any bacterial life beyond Earth. Yet, there are few, if any scientists, who actually believe in that lack of evidence. Every advance in scientific knowledge allows us to open another door. Some are close by. Some are very distant.
As far as an “afterlife” is concerned, don’t give up hope. Just don’t put that hope in religion. That’s a scam. A so called “afterlife” is a more distant possibility dependent upon how much we eventually understand about “space-time.” Is it a continuum? Or is it digital? Probing it is a legitimate pursuit within science (particle physics). We’re not there yet. Space-Time travel is very distant on the scientific horizon. But it’s there, and we will eventually probe it fully.
What about the concept of a “god”. That depends on where we find ourselves on the Kardashev scale. At the moment, our designation is a K – 0.72 To understand this, you need to Google it. The math behind it can be pretty steep. Kardashev’s scaling has been greatly modified since this particle physicist latched onto it back in 1968.
Basically, to cut to the chase, the highest macro-rung of the traditional ladder of evolutionary advance posits that a cosmic entity may exist at the K – 4 level. This puts debates about whether or not a “god” exists on a silly or irrelevant level. Why ? There can be NO definitive answer. Only a K- 4 level civilization would have any real hope of giving us a definitive answer one way or another.
But I can tell you this with near certainty …… If one were to ask such an entity occupying a K – 4 level of existence …..”Does god exist?”, they would be highly unlikely to deny there own existence.
The debates about “god’s” existence are completely irrelevant. A truer debate, a more honest debate would be to ask “How are we going to get to a Kardashev – 4 level of existence?” At the very least, it would be a much more honest, truer scientific debate without all the religious baggage. For such a debate …… religious leaders need not apply.
Dale, I agree. Now, my son thinks that there is a chance that there will be robotic life and the possibility that our consciousness can be placed therein. Ridiculous? Possibly, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that was more likely than life after death. But we are nerds who talk about stuff like that. 😉
‘Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.’ James 2:17
What the Kluverts and the Livelys of the world don’t seem to realise, or even care, is that their walk with Christ reflects their faith in Christ. If an unsaved man can practice better behaviour by not harassing a man and his wife on Facebook, how poorly does it reflect the Christian who is prepared to stoop so low in behaviour and regard for others?
Truth is evangelical Christianity churns out baby Christians, unable to set an example to shine their light. (The light referred to in the Bible).
Bruce. If someone ever asks you …….. “Do you not love your wife enough to want her to go to heaven?” …… a very simple response would be …… “Heaven ?!? No. I would want to see her in a far better place !” ……. It puts the onus back on the questioner as to why in god’s name they would want to subject anyone to “THAT !!!”
Well Dale, the heaven they believe in only admits a tiny percentage of humanity, while the rest sizzle for eternity. What kind and loving person could wish that most of humanity deserves eternal torture? And yet they claim to be kind, while gleefully telling Bruce he’s going to burn. I want to have nothing to do with them.
“Do you not love your wife enough to want her to go to Heaven?”
This is how you reply:
Lively, you are a twit and a coward. You use fear and ignorance to try to wank off to your delusion that you are special.
as Bruce says Fuck off.
and really why would anyone want someone eternally stroking some god who is so needy?
Dude just got butthurt that you didn’t send him an invitation to Bruce and Polly’s Party Barge in Hell.