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Life Without God is Empty: How One Christian Describes the Lives of Atheists

empty life

Repost from 2015-2016. Edited, updated, and corrected.

I saw the following on Facebook:

Life without God is empty. Eventually life without God comes to a very lonely and unfulfilled end – after you die. But life with God – after you die and are raised to life again – goes on forever, in indescribable joy!

The gist of this person’s comment is this . . . Atheists live empty lives that will come to a lonely, unfulfilled end.

I have given up trying to educate Christians concerning their ignorance about atheists. I have come to the conclusion that they simply do not want to know the truth.

Christians need to think that their lives matter above all others, that their worship and devotion to God will result in a divine payoff in the sweet by and by. They need to think that going to church on Sunday matters, that giving 10% of their income to the church matters, and that doing all the things the Christians do matters. To admit that atheists can have fulfilling lives that matter is to say that a person can have a good life without God. Christians will have none of that. No! No! No! GOD makes life worthwhile. GOD gives life purpose and meaning.

Here’s what I know. People are people, regardless of what they think about God. Purpose and fulfillment are not dependent on God. There are atheists who live unfulfilled, meaningless lives, but there are plenty of Christians who do the same. In fact, since Christianity is one of the largest world religions, I suspect there are far more Christians than atheists living unfulfilled, meaningless lives.

Atheists are often more focused on the present than Christians — especially Evangelicals. Christians tend to focus on the hereafter. Living and enjoying life is offloaded to eternal life beyond the grave. The present life is to be endured, with the result being that God gives Christians indescribable love, joy, and peace that goes on forever. Atheists, on the other hand, only have this life. They only have one opportunity to live life and live it well. Atheists are highly motivated to make what they can of this life, to enjoy this life, and to make the future a better place for their progeny.

Most Christians can’t accept how atheists view the world. They are too invested in their interpretation of the Bible, their worship of God, and the mansion that awaits them after they die, to admit that atheists can have a life that is, in every way, as happy as theirs.

bruce-gerencser-headshot

Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

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57 Comments

  1. Avatar
    Brian

    “I have given up trying to educate Christians concerning their ignorance about atheists. I have come to the conclusion that they simply do not want to know the truth.”
    Wanting the truth demands first that one admit they could be wrong, as Science does. Once any finding in Science is proven lacking, another takes its place, a temporary truth that is possibly to be proven wrong one day. In religion, the mind becomes intractable in belief and what is KNOWN is not to be moved. The Christian cannot be wrong about God because God says etc. Scientific method no longer applies. Practically stated. “they do not want to know the truth” is more honest than the Christian is able to admit. To abandon your loved ones is faith. To truss up your child for human sacrifice is faith in action. The allow your own son to be tortured is love, love without bounds. And they make their children eat this stuff for breakfast lunch and dinner.

  2. Avatar
    Kerry

    Bruce, May I correct one comment? I know it is nuanced to a degree but while you are essentially correct that Christianity is the largest of the the religions…even with 100’s of denominations that do not agree, they still represent only a third of religious people in the world. I think this is important. Most Christians state that “fact” with a certain amount of pride, but do not realize that still two-thirds of the world, and growing, does not accept their worldview.

    • Avatar
      Robert

      I’ll save Bruce the trouble on this one:

      data from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_populations

      Religion Adherents percents
      Christianity 2200 million[4] 30.70%
      Islam 1600 million[5] 22.32%
      Secular[a]/Nonreligious[b]/Agnostic/Atheist ≤1100 million 15.35%
      Hinduism 1000 million 13.95%
      Chinese traditional religion[c] 394 million 5.50%
      Buddhism 376 million 5.25%
      Ethnic religions excluding some in separate categories 300 million 4.19%
      African traditional religions 100 million 1.40%
      Sikhism 23 million 0.32%
      Juche[d] 19 million 0.27%
      Spiritism 15 million 0.21%
      Judaism 14 million 0.20%

      So, in essence, Bruce is correct that christianity is the largest (on the whole) religion in the world … to your point, Kerry, it doe not meet the total majority threshold of 50% – this is true but it does have the lion’s share of admitted followers.

      • Avatar
        Robert

        My apologies to Kerry – I misread his initial comment – and posted my above comment before reading it clearly/coherently – my bad – mea culpa – your ACTUAL point of 2/3 of the world (all other religions combined) do NOT share the christian world view is valid

        Mental note to self: wake up before trying to be all smarty pants 😛

        • Avatar
          Kerry

          No problem Robert. I just think it is so important to understand that the MAJORITY of the world rejects Christianity. I live in Taiwan…98% Buddhist, and I get quite a different view on religion and how it is practiced.

          • Avatar
            Bruce Gerencser

            Your comment is a reminder that there is often another side to statistics. Both are correct about Christianity, but your side of the stat coin paints a different and far more accurate picture of Christianity’s place in the world.

            So, thanks!! 🙂

  3. Avatar
    Jada

    I’ve often wondered if there’s a presence of resentment in christians who claim such things? Do they look at other people enjoying the here and now and living their lives to the fullest and feel as if it isn’t ‘fair’ that anyone can have these things in this actual, real world that we live in?

    My mother resented my happy, secular life because I hadn’t done everything ‘right’ in such a way that I ‘deserved’ such happiness. In her opinion, she had done everything ‘right’ yet left this world angry and miserable. She was expecting everyone else, including god, to fulfill her. I don’t know if it ever occurred to her that she was the only one who could find fulfillment for herself in this life. All I had to do was observe her lack of ‘joy in Christ’ to see that it was a magnificent lie.

    • Avatar
      Melody

      I think there may be. I know there was for me 😉 If you believe you’re right about things, but still pretty miserable whereas you feel you’re supposed to be extra happy since you are right, it’s such a disconnect… and the hereafter soon becomes all that’s left.

      My mother was once pretty insulted when a Christian psychologist, who also wrote columns, wrote something about how an extreme longing for heaven/the rapture was an acceptable Christian form of suicidal ideation but I privately wondered if he was right. I wanted Christ to return soon so I didn’t have to deal with my problems and felt that it could be the same for her. My brother, on the other hand, often told me that he quitely hoped God would wait for a good while because there was so much he still wanted to do and experience. At the time, that sounded nearly blasphemous (wanting to stay in this world rather than heaven) but I’ve come to realize that it’s a much healthier attitude. Now, I want to stay here too 🙂 Not that it’s always easy but I finally do want to live this life rather than dream and hope for a heaven someday in the future…

    • Avatar
      Martin Hunt

      A lot of people seem to get mixed up between ‘religion’ and ‘following Christ’. There is a world of difference! Religion never really helps anyone. All it does is make people feel full of guilt and shame. Tells you that you need to obey a long list of rules and creates an arrogance and a judgmental attitude in those who follow it. No wonder those in this camp struggle to demonstrate any genuine joy! However, following Jesus is a whole different story. Jesus brings hope, He brings freedom, He brings life in all it’s fullness. He brings real peace and a deep joy! I can only really speak for myself but I have lived without God and with Him and knowing Jesus is the best thing ever. Not just in the future but right here and now. I live life to the full! A life without God is completely pointless because it’s what we are created for. Nothing else will ever satisfy, and that’s it in a nutshell! x

      • Avatar
        Bruce Gerencser

        I guess I might as well kill myself since life is pointless without your version of the Christian God.

        You are clueless, my friend, unable to comprehend/understand/appreciate any reality but your own. Give me one reason, based on what you have written, why I would ever want to follow your Jesus?

        Tonight, I’m out with my wife and daughter at a street fest featuring wonderful worldly,non-Jesusey food, music, and beer. I have taken numerous photos of the musicians,along with photographs of the crowd — especially playing, oblivious children. It’s a beautiful night, low humidity and just the right temperature. After this, we plan to eat at a local gastropub. What a wonderful evening spent with people living pointless lives.

        Something tells me that you will not get the point of this comment. Live a little. Sin a little, or a lot. Life is short. Enjoy, for all too soon you will be worm food.

        • Avatar
          Bruce Gerencser

          Martin errantly — I think — sent his comment to me instead of posting it here.

          I thought Sir, you’re mixing up up religion, sin and following Jesus! You see, I have also been out with my wife this evening, I ate, I drank beer and listened to live ‘non jesusey’ music, as you put it. I too had a wonderful evening. There was no sin involved. I met some lovely people, who I’d imagine have a wide variety of different beliefs from myself. I honour and respect this. Some of my closest friends are atheists. We spend a lot of time together, holidays etc. no problem. Let’s get something clear though. Christianity is not about what you wear, how you look, what food you eat, what music you listen to or whether you drink beer or not! The only people who would say that are the religious rule pushers, as they did in Jesus’s day! Real Christianity is about love, acceptance, honour, fun, joy, life in all its fullness. It’s about knowing that we have a Heavenly Father who loves us more than words can express. He loves me and there’s nothing I can do about it other than accept it. Which I do with open arms. I love eating out. I love a beer with friends etc. It’s just that there’s so much more! Jesus offers answers to the big questions in life. He offers hope in an insecure world. He offers eternal life. If you don’t want these things or feel you don’t need them then obviously it’s your choice. As for me I’m taking them! I want them! You see, I do not believe for one second that we are just worm fodder. We are eternal beings with destiny and purpose. We are kings and queens, destined for royalty. Why live like paupers? (I’m not necessarily talking about material wealth). I believe to live life freely and fully we must have answers to the big questions in life. We must plan for eternity. It’s only then ( in my opinion) that we are truly free and can really live life to the full!!
          By the way, I do get the point at the end of your reply. It’s just that I live far above this. Why would I want to live like a pauper again.
          Whatever you think or believe, His love for you is extravagant!

          • Avatar
            Bruce Gerencser

            You think you honor and respect differences in others, but in fact your comments suggest you do no such thing. If you did, you wouldn’t have said that anyone who doesn’t worship your God is living a pointless life. I wonder if your non-Christian friends know how you view their lives? Have you honestly told them their lives are pointless?

            I, for one, would never be friends with someone who thought that about me. Life’s too short to be friends with people who, because of their religious views, look down on the vast majority of the human race.

          • Avatar
            Geoff

            If I may, (obviously directed at Martin Hunt) I’d like an answer to a point that I find puzzling. Please tell me of one thing you know as a result of your Jesus belief that you wouldn’t otherwise know. I ask because you say he answers big questions in your life, but I very much doubt this. Elsewhere I hear a regular claim that religion answers questions that science is unable to. When I ask for examples I get none.

            Can you help?

  4. Avatar
    Martin Hunt

    This is a response to Geoff, who’s comment I can’t currently see on this feed but came through on my email. Hi, My own big questions in life were always – why are we here? Is there a purpose? What happens when I die? Is there life after death? Is heaven or hell real? For me science does not answer these questions and will never be able to. Jesus answers them very clearly! Obviously this requires belief in Jesus and what he said. Science also requires belief. Eg. The theory of evolution definitely requires a person to believe it as it is only one theory amongst many. It is the theory that has been promoted in our schools more than any other and that is why so many accept it as true. I personally have never believed this theory, way before I ever was a Christian I just didn’t accept it.There are so many gaps, unexplained answers and no evidence of so much of what is taught. This is why it is called a theory. Even if one believes in evolution it does not answer my questions and never will. I am not against science. For me it is not one against the other, although generally, science does not accept that there is a spiritual realm. As a young man I was searching for answers to life. Jesus answered my questions and my search for truth ended right there! For me it’s not religion against science. I have a particular dislike for religion anyway. I believe in the Bible and to me science often confirms my beliefs not opposes them. But, this is not when it sumises or theorises but when it expounds on facts! Obviously I could go on and on quoting the Bible etc but I don’t I think this would probably be of any value. Hope in some way this is helpful.

    • Avatar
      Geoff

      Thanks Martin, I thought that was the kind of thing you had in mind. The trouble is that you have answers that I don’t have access to, given that I don’t have a belief in Jesus.

      I can’t, and never can, resist commenting on your views regarding evolution. Firstly I am bound to say that there are no competing theories, none whatsoever. The only one that gives a sort of pretence at doing so is intelligent design, and that is nothing more than a contrived version of creationism, which is a belief based on superstition. I don’t ‘believe’ in evolution, I accept it as a factual description of how life on this planet came to be as it is, based on overwhelming evidence. Nor is it ‘just a theory’. Well it is, in the sense that it is a scientific grouping of ideas referred to as theory, rather like gravity, but in being a theory it is accepted as established fact, as opposed to a hypothesis.

      • Avatar
        Martin Hunt

        Firstly Bruce, I do not look down on anyone. I have my views as you have yours. It is my view that we were created to have a relationship with God. To know Him. To love Him. I believe that He alone holds the keys to real happiness and fulfilment in this life and into eternity. Therefore it goes without saying that because of these beliefs, I believe that ultimately (maybe I should have used that word earlier) life is pointless without God because I believe we were created for this! If you don’t want a relationship with God. If you don’t believe that it’s even possible. If you don’t believe He exists. Then that’s obviously your choice and is fine by me. I don’t look down on you, not at all. I respect your choice and I honour you. I honour your freewill. As I said, I have friends who know exactly what I believe. They also know that our friendship remains strong regardless of whether they ever believe what I believe or not. My friends are not pointless, everyone’s life is precious. I love my friends and they know exactly what I believe. As I are addy mentioned, we spend a lot of time together enjoying life. But, I would love my friends to know the love of God, I would love for them to experience the peace that comes from trusting Him and knowing that He holds the future in His hands. I believe that this is what we are created for. That this is ultimately the purpose of life and that this then carries on into eternity. This is why I say that life is ultimately pointless without this. This is why we are on the planet. If you do not believe this or choose this I believe you are missing out. This does not mean that I do not care for you, or that I see you as pointless, or that I consider you a lesser person than me in any way. If you choose not to be friends with someone who holds different beliefs to yourself, namely, Christian beliefs, then that is up to you. If you believe that I am not being respectful or hounouring that is up to you. I know my self. I know my heart. Feel free to believe whatever you want about me. Totally fine.

        • Avatar
          Bruce Gerencser

          What I am trying to get you to see is that you can’t separate the skunk from his smell. Your “pointless” statement is a values judgment. It reveals how you truly feel about the majority of the human race — your non-Christian friends included. You seem to want to utter these words, making a moral, value judgment of billions of people without being held accountable for what you are saying. This, by the way, is a common ploy of Christians, used in a variety of ways.

          Even though I believe your God is a work of fiction, the fabrications of human minds,I would NEVER say of you that your life is pointless, that your life lacks value,meaning, and purpose. I recognize that religious people’s lives do have a point and their lives have great value, meaning, and purpose. I need not believe your God exists for these things to be true of you.

          Well, it is time to put an end to this mulberry tree chase. I wish you well, Martin.

  5. Avatar
    Martin Hunt

    Yes, it does seem a little pointless to continue debating. I must just clarify a couple of things though and then that’s me done. Firstly you keep talking about religion but I am not religious. Secondly, I believe that people are actually intrinsically valuable! Quite the opposite of what you keep misquoting me to have said! I repeat again Life is precious, valuable etc etc. but, ultimately, we are lost without Him! That is what I believe. If you choose not to believe it then great, but it’s my belief. If you want to assume that I’m being judgemental by saying this then so be it! What I don’t quite understand is what has caused you to become so anti? You must have had some very negative experiences I’m guessing. I do wonder if your years involved in Christianity were just years involved in empty religion rather than involved in a relationship with a loving God. If so, I can see why you’ve rejected it. I would too. Anyway, all the best. Thanks for the chat. Feel free to respond or not to this comment. I won’t be continuing it. Cheers!

    • Avatar
      Bruce Gerencser

      All I can say Martin is that words have meanings. You seem to want to redefine certain words — pointless/ religion/religious– and givie them meanings different from how these words are normally understood.

      The “I’m not religious” trope is a common ploy used by some Christians to assert that their beliefs are different/superior to that of other religious people. The very fact that you are a Christian means you self-identity with a religion. You may have deluded yourself into believing that you are different/special/unique, but your words suggest otherwise. Peel back the verbal drivel and what is left is a person who thinks he is in possession of true Christianity. Hardly a unique viewpoint. Scores of Christians have tried similar approaches when commenting on this blog. All have been found, in the end — despite their claims of being different– to be garden variety religious people. Everyone who hold a particular view about a God is religious. SSuggesting otherwise is, once again, an irrational denial of the normative meanings of words such as religious/religion.

      Jesus and Paul, both founders of peculiar strains of Christianity were religious. To suggest Christianity, regardless of the flavor, is not a religion and its adherents are not religious is a denial of history.

    • Avatar
      Michael Mock

      Wait, did Martin Hunt just imply that he has a relationship with a loving God, right after claiming that he wasn’t religious?

      Dude. That’s a veritable case study in religious belief. I mean, for most Christians, that’s what religion is.

      “I’m not religious, I just have a close personal relationship with Jesus,” or any variation thereof, is not a good look. It looks like deliberate obfuscation. It looks like trying to muddle the terminology so you can pretend to be something that you aren’t, or pretend not to be something that you very clearly are. There is no version of trying to present yourself that way that doesn’t come off as intrinsically dishonest, as deliberately manipulative.

      So stop it.

  6. Avatar
    Martin Hunt

    Ps: I have just read your article Bruce ‘why I hate Jesus’ . Just for the records, I also hate the Jesus you describe! It is not the Jesus I follow!!

        • Avatar
          Zoe

          Do you attend church Martin? If so is it affiliated with any denomination or non-denominational? Home church, no church. Catholic, Protestant, Jehovah Witness, Pentecostal, Bretheren, Apostolic, Word of Life, Amish, Mennonite, Lutheran, Mormon or one of the Orthodox churches &/or one I haven’t mentioned yet?

          • Avatar
            Bruce Gerencser

            And she goes in for the kill. ?

            The last person I had a discustwith along these lines, after days of back and forth comments, finally admitted he attended a Church of Christ. You know the “nondenominational” Church of Christ with its set doctrines, beliefs, and practices just like every other sect/religion.

  7. Avatar
    Martin Hunt

    It does have a website and a statement of faith, however , I do not feel happy sharing it on this site. I don’t feel it’s necessary as I am discussing with you my beliefs, my ideas, not anyone else’s. My individual understanding of Christianity. Also Bruce, you speak like I have something to hide and soon I’m apparently going to finally admit stuff. Not true. There’s nothing to hide. And, just because I attend a certain church does not necessarily mean I agree with everything they say and do. I buy meat from a local butcher which is excellent. It does not mean I love everything he sells! You need to let some of your anger and hatred go. It seems to be what is driving you and that’s no good for anyone’s well being. It also means we can’t have a reasonable discussion as all you’re doing is looking for the slightest thing, a wrong word, a statement which you can twist, to change the real intention that the person had when sharing it. In other words! You just want to try and catch people out.

    • Avatar
      Bruce Gerencser

      No Martin, Zoe smelled bullshit and she was right. All your talk about religion and Jesus was first grade, primo Christian bullshit.

      You seem to have a hard time with owning what you say, thinking that readers either misunderstand you or are trying to twist your words. On both counts you are wrong. You attempted, for the sake of “I have no idea” to present yourself as something you are not. Yes, you are a Christian, but we now know that you are part of some sort of organized religious sect.

      I will approve no further comments of yours. You have wasted a lot of my time and that of others.

      Bruce Gerencser

  8. Avatar
    Martin Hunt

    Mmmm thought as much. Your a sad , bitter, twisted and very rude man . Who can’t cope with someone who thinks outside the box. I hope you continue to enjoy your angry, fear driven little debates . You know nothing about me or what I’m part of. That’s very clear. Just full of hatred. It kills people you know!

  9. Avatar
    Martin Hunt

    Oh that old chestnut now is it ” look at you, call yourself a Christian” .typical angry atheist. Pathetic ! At least I’m not driven by bitterness and hatred which to be honest Bruce is so sad!

    • Avatar
      Zoe

      Martin Hunt wrote:

      Thats simple Zoe, I follow the Jesus of the Bible.

      Do you?

      You accuse Bruce of knowing nothing about you, yet you seem to claim some sort of expertise in knowing all about him.

      You wrote:

      Ps: I have just read your article Bruce ‘why I hate Jesus’ . Just for the records, I also hate the Jesus you describe! It is not the Jesus I follow!!

      I asked you what Jesus you follow because I hear this all the time from Christians. On the surface that’s their answer: I follow the Jesus of the Bible. As conversation evolves it’s not uncommon to find that the Jesus they follow is also the Jesus of their church or pastor or fellowship group and yes that fellowship group can be a group of one. Here you mention that though you go to church and they have a website you’re not comfortable sharing it but basically that’s not why you are here as all you’re doing really is talking about your individual take on the Jesus of the Bible, not your church specifically. You wrote:

      I don’t feel it’s necessary as I am discussing with you my beliefs, my ideas, not anyone else’s. My individual understanding of Christianity.

      – emphasis added by Zoe. So basically you are a group of one though you do attend a bigger larger group within the context of your church but your Jesus of the Bible might possibly be/look a bit different that the corporate body you attend. That’s fine with me. I’m just trying to sort out your Jesus of the Bible from the Jesus of the Bible that many of your fellow believers believe in. There appears to be many Jesus’.

      In closing you also wrote to Bruce:

      I respect your choice and I honour you.

      Do you?

    • Avatar
      anotherami

      It’s clear you really don’t want to have a conversation here, you want a conversion. And I don’t blame Bruce one bit for telling you to bugger off in much more polite terms than you deserve. Bruce is neither bitter or hateful, though he has every right be, considering what his years as an IFB pastor cost him and his family. In fact, he’s quite patient and accommodating, IF one doesn’t try to tell him he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. That is one of the most infuriating things anyone can do– to tell someone else that the other person’s own lived experience is false. It’s called gaslighting and it is abuse. Then when you are called on your bullshit, you use a variant of the “No True Scotsman” as your defense and resort to insults. “Typical hateful fundie.”

      Note to readers– Martin came in seeming polite and desiring to to join the discussion, but it seems his real goal is to disrupt/derail it. This is a tactic on the increase in social media and has been termed “sea-lioning”. Also known as concern trolls. Seems to be most in use among conservative/libertarian/and far-left (i.e. Jill Stein types) trolls. Don’t fall for it.

      • Avatar
        Martin Hunt

        It’s ok for you to be rude to me, to criticise what I say, to be judgemental etc etc. but I can’t say anything back. It’s ok for you to call what I say and my beliefs bullshit, even though I haven’t said anything like this to any of you. You are so completely wrong. I have no tactic, I have no aim to convert anyone. I have not mentioned politics, neither am I interested in politics and yet again you are another one on this site to attempt to categorise me. I haven’t told anyone that they don’t know what they’re talking about. I’ve just shared my beliefs about who God is. I have no idea what you’re talking about “no true Scotsman”? “Typical hate fundie” ? “tactics”? “sea lioning” ? “concern trolls”? And I’m talking bullshit. Common guys, get real. You wouldn’t blame Bruce would you? Your obviously another Christian hater, bent on finding fault with anything any Christian anywhere says. To say Bruce is not bitter etc is ridiculous. This whole site exists to critisize Christians, driven by hurt, offence, anger and a desire to get one over on Christians by picking and twisting every little word said. Well, that’s me done. That ends my correspondence with any of this. I hope you have adequately amused yourself and I pray one day you will meet the real Jesus and know the love of Father God!!

        • Avatar
          anotherami

          I’m one of the folks here who does still have an element of faith and belief in the Divine so no, not an atheist at all. But I’m also a survivor of abuse and recognize it when I see it. And whether you admit it or even see it, when you presume to be able to more clearly see/state the position of the person in question and feel free to label their motives contrary to their stated ones, that is abusive. You presume to know Bruce’s motives and mine, when you clearly know nothing about me. If you don’t know what something is, Google is your friend. If you don’t what “tactics” are, I suggest a good dictionary or remedial education.

          I never called your beliefs bullshit because you never stated them beyond some vague “Jesus of the Bible” cop-out. I called bullshit on Bruce being bitter and hateful. Quite the contrary! Bruce is clearly a deeply compassionate man whose own heart is wounded when he sees others suffer. And the toxic Calvinism prevalent in IFB does cause suffering on a staggering scale. Bruce tries to expose the roots of that harm. THAT is what this site is all about.

          And I am far closer to enraged than amused. I’ll see you from the protest lines because I doubt we’ll be on the same sides of that line.

          Sorry for getting on my soapbox but damn…. Delete if you feel it would better, Bruce. But I needed to write it.

  10. Avatar
    Martin Hunt

    Zoe, it’s seems like whatever I say or do you will pick apart my words, emphasise certain words/phrases and attempt to use these against me in order to discredit or pick some random argument with what Ive said. You appear to have an agenda and everything is either driven by this, or is trying to prove Christianity wrong/ false/ bad.

    [sermon deleted]

    • Avatar
      Zoe

      I missed the sermon. Just as well I guess.

      Discredit and pick apart? Those phrases, those words, they are yours Martin. I have mirrored your words back to you. I’m asking questions about your words, your phrases. About your Jesus.

      • Avatar
        Bruce Gerencser

        Martin just repeated what he had previously said. Evidently, he doesn’t like it when people take his words at face value. When he said, non-Christians have pointless lives, I believed that what he said was an accurate representation of his beliefs. Silly of us to not take him at his word. 🙂

        Thank you for flushing out Martin’s religion. He hid it well. I am surprised I didn’t catch on sooner. 🙂

    • Avatar
      Bruce Gerencser

      I have seen Campbellite churches (Churches of Christ) that have building cornerstones that say Founded AD 33. I kid you not. They say they are nondenominational, not a religion, yet all of their churches have the same beliefs and practices. They also spend an inordinate amount of time defending these beliefs and practices just like, you know, sects/religions do. ?

      The argument is absurd, no different from Landmark Baptists who believe their sect was founded by Jesus. Their proof? Jesus was baptized by John THE Baptist, thus that made Jesus a Baptist. Make sense? ?

  11. Avatar
    Neil Rickert

    If anything, my life has been richer since I left Christianity. However, that probably has to do with other things and is likely not related to my religious choices.

    People should avoid making these sweeping generalizations.

  12. Avatar
    BJW

    Hmm. I came to the conclusion that love for my fellow man was my purpose in life. Okay, my health being compromised, I may only be able to love the ones closest to me. But while I still pray, I don’t think a lack of belief in a god is a reason to be sad. I just wish I had the certainty I once had. Watching this country go to hell has probably dealt the biggest blow to my faith as anything, and I’m including death and illness and miscarriages etc. But I do have hope that we humans finally pull it together. If not, well, I’ll be lucky to live another 20 years. I just regret the problems my sons are going to have to live through!

  13. Avatar
    ObstacleChick

    My life is a lot better without having to figure out who the “real” Jesus was. Was the “real” Jesus the one from the gospel of Mark? The gospel of Matthew? The gospel of Luke? The gospel of John? The Jesus of Paul? The Jesus of whoever pretended to be Paul in the pseudoepigraphic letters? Or something else?

    I have become ok with saying “I don’t know” regarding some big questions. Heck, I didn’t get answers to all of the questions when I asked God, or his mouthpieces at church. I do know that the convoluted soteriology and eschatology of most evangelical sects are horribly cruel and make no sense. The writings in the Bible certainly don’t point to a benevolent deity but rather a deity exhibiting all the worst characteristics of humans.

    Anyway, I am happy to navigate this life with the idea that it’s what I have, what can I do to make it better, and how can I help others? That’s all.

  14. Avatar
    Steve Ruis

    Re “GOD makes life worthwhile. GOD gives life purpose and meaning.”

    I keep asking Christians what this meaning and purpose are. Most mumble something about going to Heaven to worship God, but I then ask: “Why would a God which is complete and needs nothing in any way create a race of self-aware people solely to worship it?? That sounds needy, very needy, to the point of it being a psychological sickness to me.

  15. Avatar
    Infidel753

    GOD makes life worthwhile. GOD gives life purpose and meaning

    One of the best things about being non-religious is that the purpose and meaning of my life is determined solely by me. My life isn’t cluttered up with some extraneous “purpose and meaning” imposed by an imaginary external being and not of my choosing.

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Bruce Gerencser