There were more comments under BGs [Bruce Gerencser’s] post as well as some made here [which I refused to publish] that are very wrong, mean-spirited, and so on. We will post some of them here and the biggest question to answer is- what good would it do to defend ourselves?
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We looked and thought about Jesus’ trial and why he did not defend himself against all the charges and insults hurled his way. The answer came in the form of a question- what good would it do?
People who hate Christ are going to hate Christians for many reasons. Unless convicted by God’s Holy Spirit, they are not going to change. They will believe whatever they want whether it is true or not.
They will also do almost anything they can to undermine any defense you make. They will take half-truths, half a story, or even make up stuff to get at you. It is just not worth the time or energy to defend oneself from such people.
There is no reasoning with these people and making a defense just won’t accomplish what you want it to. Stephen tried it and he is accusers stopped up their ears before stoning him. In most cases making a defense does not change the outcome.
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We looked and thought about Jesus’ trial and why he did not defend himself against all the charges and insults hurled his way. The answer came in the form of a question- what good would it do?
People who hate Christ are going to hate Christians for many reasons. Unless convicted by God’s Holy Spirit, they are not going to change. They will believe whatever they want whether it is true or not.
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They will also do almost anything they can to undermine any defense you make. They will take half-truths, half a story, or even make up stuff to get at you. It is just not worth the time or energy to defend oneself from such people.
There is no reasoning with these people and making a defense just won’t accomplish what you want it to. Stephen tried it and he is accusers stopped up their ears before stoning him. In most cases making a defense does not change the outcome.
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We cannot kill injure or harm them nor can we throw their souls into hell. Nor can our opposing points of view. They really should be afraid of God who, as the Bible says, can kill both body and soul and toss them into hell.
Their denial of these facts does not spare them the reality of it happening to them.
— Fake Dr. David Tree, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, Why We (I) Do Not Defend Ourselves (Myself), July 14, 2022
Let me add a WTF quote:
And if they [Bruce Gerencser and Ben Berwick] do anything to us (me) [what, martyr you for Hey-Zeus?], God will raise up someone else to take our (my) place. There has always been a messenger of God [I alone am a true prophet of God] in the world’s midst. Even when the one world government comes, there will be two witnesses present.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
That is one of the facts of the Christian life. When you start teaching the truth, you will find that you are standing there by yourself except for Jesus.
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If we are the light unto the world, then we cannot fall or falter nor give in to the demands of those who want their own sinful ways. The unbeliever thinks they know better and have a better morality than those who bring the truth but they don’t.
Their idea of morality is to kill an innocent child who cannot defend him or herself just so a 10-year-old can have a childhood or escape the trauma. (Please see Dr. David Tee Says Abortion is Wrong, Even for a Pregnant Ten-Year-Old.) That isn’t being moral nor is it even close to being right. All they have done is shifted the trauma to something they do not accept as human even though it is.
We are supposed to follow Jesus even when it gets tough and this situation is a tough one. We read BG’s response, he finally came in with a few words but he mostly quoted MM.
When we first read it, there were only two comments underneath the article. Those will be the two we will address here:
“This idiot infuriates me to no end. I left my two cents and I’m pretty sure it doesn’t get posted.”
Yes, that person left her two cents and it was not kind. The part she did not post in that comment was that we do not know women or how they feel going through those changes. If you read parts 1 and 2, you will see that we never said we knew how that little girl felt.
But God does and he can use Christian women to minister to that girl and help her make the right decisions and learn what is going on with their body. We as ministers or teachers of God’s word can only let the world know what is God’s way.
Then we have to sit back and let people make their choices. We cannot force people to obey God. Also, what that person does not understand is that men are charged with leading women to obey God correctly and helping them get to a holy life.
We are to teach them the truth so they know what to do in all situations. That is how Christ loved the Church and that is one-way men show their love to their wives, sisters, daughters, and so on.
We are not charged to lead women to sin.
We will deal with MM’s words in different quotes:
“What truly pisses me off is that he is not a parent (well, we know that might be a grey area), yet he would hide behind the Bible to dictate to parents (such as Bruce and myself) as to how to raise our children.”
A preacher or a teacher does not have to be married to bring God’s truth to parents. He has to love God and be willing to teach the truth. God has already laid out what parents are to do. In Deut. 4, God tells Moses to tell the people to raise their children by teaching them his ways, etc.
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Why do you think we defend certain people accused of committing serious crimes? We like justice and we fight so they can have justice. If they don’t get it, no one gets justice. We are to love mercy as well which is why we have taught that zero tolerance is a sinful and non-christian ideology, not a biblical one.
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There is evil in the world that MM and BG deny so they cannot see the truth as they are very deceived. We do not expect them to see the light without Christians praying for them. Then they will understand everything we have taught once they truly believe in Jesus.
But they won’t get those tangible results because too many people are just like them, deciding for evil and trashing the only solution that will make this world better. As well as trashing those who bring God’s ways to them.
What happened to that 10-year-old girl is tragic but tragedy does not give people an escape route to not obey God. We obey God first and the tragedy will be solved without sin.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
There is no other answer. Abortion is not for young girls or older women. Rape and incest are sins of the father or mother or both not a sin of the unborn child. They should not be punished for sins they have not committed even if the mother is as young as 5.
— Derrick Thomas Thiessen (AKA Dr. David Tee)
Christian Fundamentalism robs its adherents of the ability to think and reason. When a literalistic interpretation of a book that is believed to be inspired, inerrant, and infallible is the driving force of one’s life, out goes love, kindness, and common sense when it conflicts with “thus saith the Lord.”
One such person is Fake Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen. Tee is known for defending rapists, child molesters, and other miscreants. In the past few years, he has defended Bill Cosby, Ravi Zacharias, Bill Gothard, Bill Hybels, and other Evangelical degenerates. I have yet to read a post where Tee resolutely stands with victims of clergy sexual misconduct. I have long believed he defends such men because of his own scandalous past. Tee hides behind the “grace” of God, the “forgiveness” of Jesus, and the “sanctifying” power of the Holy Ghost.
Just when I think I have heard it all from Tee, he swims farther and deeper into the shit-filled cesspool of Bible literalism. Recently, the news reported a story about a pregnant ten-year-old child. (How she got pregnant remains unknown at this time.) Unable to get an abortion in Ohio, the girl planned to travel to Indiana to have her pregnancy terminated. Tee, of course, is outraged over this girl “murdering” her “baby.” Tee, a forced birther, makes no exceptions, even for rape or incest. Once the egg is fertilized by sperm, it is a human life that must be carried to term regardless of how it was conceived or what harm it may cause to its mother. I found myself saying, what kind of man is so loveless and heartless, that a zygote is more important than the life of a child? A Fundamentalist Christian who values his literalistic interpretation of the Bible more than the life and welfare of a young girl, that’s who.
For some people, this is a real dilemma and also a good excuse to continue abortion practices.
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This may sock you and this is where the supposed moral dilemma comes in for some people. This is also where those who are pro-abortion use this scenario to promote the idea that abortion needs to be available and legal.
Should young girls who are raped or had sex at this young age be allowed to have abortions? We already know that most unbelievers will disagree with what we will say here but our view is that age is not permission to kill.
The Bible is very clear when it says thou shalt not kill. There is no age limit on that command and no exceptions are made for children. They are not allowed to kill and their parents cannot make that decision for them.
No matter how old the woman or girl is, abortion is wrong and sin.
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We are and God is in our right minds as biblical instruction is very clear. The problem doe snot come from the age of the child but the sinful behavior of the adults around her.
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Whether these young girls are ready or not to handle the changes their bodies and lives are going through is also due to the fact of the behavior of their parents.
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It is also immaterial to the discussion. Why, as crimes and other events happen when people are unprepared for them in all aspects of life. This one does not make it special but may be used to draw more sympathy from the readers of that article. The failure of the family and relatives is exposed in these situations.
This is something that needs Christ and Christians to get involved and change. But that is not part of the moral dilemma. What is part of the moral dilemma is should these child mothers carry to term or have an abortion.
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The lustful actions of the father, the rape they committed, and other things they did to have sex with the child are what make the father guilty and he should be punished. The child should not. Since people already know the risks of a childhood pregnancy, they also know how to care for the expectant mother and the unborn child.
Abortion is not part of that care. It is the easy out for most people and one they can sweep it under the rug and forget about. But the mother will not forget about the rape nor will they forget about the loss of their child.
This will take years for them to get over the trauma which is much worse than any so-called trauma of carrying the baby to term. With the right help, this ‘trauma’ is not really trauma. But rape and abortion are real trauma with the addition of the guilt or other feelings that they committed sin.
That is something no one in their right mind should put a young child through. The comment we got in response to our point about going after the father was not only that trauma issue but the prospects of death for both the mother and the fetus. Their exact words were “the fetus you seem to worship.”
For the first part, death from pregnancy or birth has been a part of this life since the beginning of time. It is a fact of life that even 20 to 40-year-old women must face. It is not a monopoly held by young girls. Death happens and we must be prepared for it.It is the line that we quoted that bothers us as we and every pro-life person are not worshipping the fetus. Trying to protect them and let them be born is not an act of worship but an act to stop people from sinning and killing innocent children.
But that is how unbelievers or believers in abortion will phrase their arguments. It is a moot point that distracts from the topic. The same person came back with the line ‘spoils her childhood’.
We have run into that term n South Korea as one person we disagreed with through newspaper articles, said he wanted his child to ‘a have a childhood.’ Whatever that means. There is no such thing as a childhood as children are born into different circumstances.
Plus, this concept of ‘having a childhood’ is very subjective and defined by people in different ways. There is a hint of hypocrisy to that attitude. These same people only care about ‘a childhood’ when their preferred method of taking care of a bad situation is excluded.
They do not apply that concept to the children of Bangladesh, Africa, or other countries who lost their childhood due to hunger and a lack of food; war, crimes, and so on. it is only selfishly applied by those who want the child to have an abortion.
There is no thought for the child that has yet to be born. Why are they not allowed a childhood? The reason people have a moral dilemma is that their morals are not rooted in God’s word but in their own concept of morality.
We have run into that many times as atheists, unbelievers and nominal Christians think they are greater than God when it comes to moral thinking. Or they think that dying is a punishment robbing them of life. They dismiss heaven and God’s salvation so they have no reward to look forward to.
Thus aborting an unborn child is not a problem for them as long as those women who are alive get to live a little longer or even pursue the accepted goals those people groups have decided are okay.
Having a 10-year-old carry a pregnancy to term is not wrong nor is it sinful. Nor is it a moral dilemma as technology has made so many advances that the care of these child brides is done properly and protects the life of both the mother and the child (forgoing any complications).
The unbelievers believe in technology and medical advances, they should be applying that belief to this subject as well. Instead of heaping lots of trauma on a little girl by forcing them to have an abortion and having them sin.
What Christians and unbelievers should be doing is going after those fathers and their sinful decisions that put the young girl in this position in the first place. That is the cause of all the problems and it is those men or boys who should be punished not the innocent unborn child.
The Bible supports that last point. To solve this problem we do not commit more sins, we fight to get rid of those sins and let Christ redeem those men and lead them to better moral behavior.
There is no other answer. Abortion is not for young girls or older women. Rape and incest are sins of the father or mother or both not a sin of the unborn child. They should not be punished for sins they have not committed even if the mother is as young as 5.
My friend from over the pond, Ben Berwick, took Tee to task for his forced-birth position for children regardless of how conception took place. Here’s what he had to say:
I’ve refrained from commenting directly on a certain conservative Christian’s posts, however their latest post, on the subject of abortion, more or less demands a response.
David’s post relates to this article from Fox News, which discusses the case of a 10-year-old girl from Ohio, who was raped, and fell pregnant as a result. She cannot get an abortion in Ohio (under draconian new laws), and so is hoping to travel to Indiana, where the law would still currently permit her to get an abortion.
David has quite a few things to say on this subject:
Should young girls who are raped or had sex at this young age be allowed to have abortions? We already know that most unbelievers will disagree with what we will say here but our view is that age is not permission to kill.
The Bible is very clear when it says thou shalt not kill. There is no age limit on that command and no exceptions are made for children. They are not allowed to kill and their parents cannot make that decision for them.
Hang on, is David suggesting what I think he is suggesting? Is there absolutely no room in his heart to consider the impact of a rape-derived pregnancy on a child?
Whether these young girls are ready or not to handle the changes their bodies and lives are going through is also due to the fact of the behavior of their parents.
Wait, what?! The behaviour of their parents won’t magically make it safe for a 10-year-old to carry a baby to term! Pregnancy and childbirth kill adults on a regular basis, much less a child’s body, and there is no level of parental preparation that can physically ready a child for all the physical and hormonal chaos of pregnancy. Even assuming that a child is physically capable of birthing a baby, how does a parent prepare their child for the psychological impact of having a baby, especially one born out of rape and abuse?! There seems to be absolutely zero empathy or sympathy in David’s position for children, which is incredibly ironic for a supposed champion of life. It’s very clear that David cares only about forcing birth, not about quality of life (indeed, some recent allegations lend weight to this attitude of his, if they are true).
David quotes from elsewhere:
The trauma of what has happened to these girls, many too young to understand what was happening to them and some who had never heard of contraception, is etched on the faces of the mothers (Ibid) In response, he has this to say:
It is also immaterial to the discussion. Why, as crimes and other events happen when people are unprepared for them in all aspects of life. This one does not make it special but may be used to draw more sympathy from the readers of that article. The failure of the family and relatives is exposed in these situations.
See what I mean? David has no room in his heart for kindness, even to victims of serious, horrific crimes. The young girls in these situations appear to be irrelevant to him; their pain, their suffering… it’s as though he’s shrugged his shoulders and said ‘oh well, bad things happen, now get over it, you’re not the real victim here’.
Our next point in our conversation was the person who should be gone after and dealt with is NOT the unborn child but the person who created this problem in the first place. We are not blaming the pregnant child here.
The lustful actions of the father, the rape they committed, and other things they did to have sex with the child are what make the father guilty and he should be punished. The child should not. Since people already know the risks of a childhood pregnancy, they also know how to care for the expectant mother and the unborn child.
Abortion is not part of that care. It is the easy out for most people and one they can sweep it under the rug and forget about. But the mother will not forget about the rape nor will they forget about the loss of their child.
This will take years for them to get over the trauma which is much worse than any so-called trauma of carrying the baby to term. With the right help, this ‘trauma’ is not really trauma. But rape and abortion are real trauma with the addition of the guilt or other feelings that they committed sin.
How can David possibly believe that forcing a child to proceed with a pregnancy they did not want (and that will physically and emotionally destroy them) is less traumatic than getting an abortion? Children — and this might sound shocking to David — should have a childhood. The child in this situation is a victim and already subjected to more anguish than any child should have to go through, but he would inflict more upon her, because her life matters less than the embryo inside her. David says he’s not blaming the child, and that the child should not be punished, but forcing them to go through with the pregnancy (I wonder if David is aware that globally, the leading killers of girls under 17 are pregnancy and childbirth) would be a punishment. David cannot begin to understand what it would be like, he is not a parent (well, allegations notwithstanding, though if they are true, he abandoned those responsibilities long ago), and he cannot get pregnant, so he will never be at risk from all the complications pregnancy can bring, especially for a child. His lack of any form of compassion for the victim of sexual assault is horrifying, and stands at odds with all his claims of being a good Christian.
There is no other answer. Abortion is not for young girls or older women. Rape and incest are sins of the father or mother or both not a sin of the unborn child. They should not be punished for sins they have not committed even if the mother is as young as 5.
I didn’t include this paragraph in my earlier version of this post, as I did not read to the end (why would I?). Upon further reading, I came across this horrific finale to David’s post. To put it bluntly, fuck the notion of sin. It is used to justify inflicting horrible pain on children, and David is so consumed by how important sin is, that he is no longer capable of any expression of sympathy or empathy, even with victims of abuse.
Updated 9th July: David left a comment here (I have no inclination to share his comments anymore), advising he’d left a response on his post. Here is his response in its entirety:
We did a lot of thinking before approving this comment. MM’s post shows zero empathy and sympathy for the unborn child so he has no moral or responsible argument. His words are moot. It also shows that MM believes 2 wrongs make a right
David is a hypocrite. He cares nothing for the ten-year-old. In a hypothetical scenario, where she stood in front of him, frightened, in pain, already traumatised from the assault against her, what would he say? He’s already hinted at this, earlier in his post. ‘Why, as crimes and other events happen when people are unprepared for them in all aspects of life. This one does not make it special but may be used to draw more sympathy from the readers of that article.’
Emphasis mine. Would he say something like that to the scared child if she were stood in front of him? Why does her life not matter?
Or they just use bad logic. MM made a short response to our last post and underneath it was this comment:
“After thousands of years, the unbelieving way has not produced any solutions to the problems of this world.” – Yet we’re living in the same world, so that would mean the “believing” way hasn’t produced any solutions either.”
The unbeliever does not see the forest for the trees. Yes, we live in the same world but that does not mean we believers do not have solutions. It means that the unbelieving world, like unbelieving scientists, do not want God a part of their world.
They exercise their free choice and choose wrong.. We know this as they want government to be secular. not Christian. There was a recent article where unbelievers were complaining that some of the Supreme Court justices were praying with other Christians.
The unbelieving world does not want God or Christians bringing the solutions that trouble the world. Instead, they rather follow deceived, lost people and complain about the world’s state and create more laws impeding people’s rights.
They continue to choose the wrong paths because they think they are better and know more than God. We can point, as another example, to how unbelievers try to thwart Christian adoption agencies, universities hamper Christian groups, or how different atheist organizations continue to interfere with Christians being a part of government, or using schools for Christian activities.
If anything, the unbeliever gets in the way of Christians implementing the answers the world needs today. They are too arrogant, stubborn, deceived, and blind to see they are the ones responsible for the way the world is as well as too proud to admit they are wrong and ask God humbly for help.
True Christians have been teaching the answers for millennia and the thanks they get is martyrdom, persecution, (See recent stories about Justice Kavanaugh, the Roe v. Wade protests, threats made against pro-life people, and so on), loss of employment, (see the cases against the different bakers, florists, the coach praying at midfield, and more).
Do not blame the Christian blame the unbelieving for the state of the world.
I commend Ben for trying to thoughtfully respond to Tee. Not that there’s any hope of changing Tee’s mind. He believes God lives inside of him; that he has the mind of Christ; that his words are the same as God’s. When someone has a God complex, there’s not much you can do to reach him. While both Ben and I have refrained from responding to Tee’s nonsense since the start of the year, his words in this instance were so egregious that they required a response.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Fake Dr. David Tee blogs at TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God. Tee is a well-known Internet troll, self-published young-earth creationist author, and a diehard Fundamentalist Christian. Tee is best known for his consummate defense of abusers and child molesters. Over the past several years, Tee has written numerous posts about me and the readers of this blog. He has also sent me several emails which he hoped would emotionally traumatize me. At every opportunity, Tee has attempted to slander my character. He has even gone after my wife and children — in Christian love, of course.
I have long known that “David Tee” was not his real name. I found that he was using the name David Thiessen. Come to find out, that’s not his real name either. According to a source I now believe to be credible, Tee’s actual name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen.
Recently, the following comments were left on this site:
Comment One
I know there’s been a bit of speculation from those who have followed “Dr. David Tee” across the interwebs over the years. I thought I’d expand on it some.
Some of you have divined his real name to be David Thiessen. You’re half right. His name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, and he’s a Canadian national.
“David” is a name he probably picked up after he stole his then-girlfriend’s identity (Social Security Number) to facilitate procurement of employment in the United States, where he was living illegally. If David is his legal name, it’s a relatively new development.
His “doctorate” is from a paper mill. He has never, to my knowledge, submitted to a curriculum created by any accredited institution.
His Bible is missing 1 Timothy 5:8 (“[b]ut if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever”) as he probably began using the abridged version of his last name shortly after he was ordered to pay child support to the child he fathered, of which he never paid a penny before disappearing from the child-support enforcement system’s radar.
But his Bible does have a unique translation of Ephesians 5:22, the same one other males of the species use to justify being abusive to their wives. Except most of them at least aren’t so cowardly to assert that dominance over a quadriplegic who not only can’t fight back, she can’t easily run away from it.
Comment Two
Original poster here. Everything I posted originally is the unvarnished truth.
The name “David Tee” comes from whole cloth, as does the name “David” in general. “Derrick” is the name that he answered to relative to at least three legal documents in my physical possession. One of them involves a restraining order, which is why I am being somewhat vague with what I post publicly. Although an extensive amount of time has passed, I do not wish to be located and identified by him or any apologists he may have.
I believe my recent e-mail to him, sent from a throwaway account, is the inspiration for his latest blog post, meaning he has narrowed my identity down to two, possibly three, people … but he would have long-outdated information if he ever came looking for any of the three, and I’d like to keep it that way.
I am also in physical possession of the court transcript of a deposition in which he conceded, under oath, that he interchangeably used “David Thiessen” and “D. David Thiessen” (as well as “David Ford”) as a pseudonym, supposedly to hide from his family in Calgary. Although, the informal name change roughly coincides with him fleeing (I believe) Washington state after being charged with domestic violence in the mid-90s. The victim was the same person who he claims – quoting from his sworn testimony – “told me she was giving me my freedom” by handing over her Social Security card for him to use for employment purposes. This, presumably, is one of the half-truths and lies he rants about in his blog, although he doesn’t clarify which part of his account of that encounter is only half-true.
I have reviewed the aforementioned sworn affidavit. It is a damning document that suggests Thiessen committed domestic violence, illegally used another person’s social security number, and attempted to commit voter fraud. If these things are true, we now understand why Thiessen has been holed up in South Korea and the Phillipines for years.
Another friend of mine, with whom I shared this information, did an Internet search on Derrick David Theissen. Low and behold he got a hit: Tee used his real name in a 2016 article about a lecture he gave to the Asian Center for Missions:
An inspirational message and challenge were shared by Dr. Derrick Thomas Thiessen, a missionary to Korea for 14 years. He placed emphasis on the significant and distinct roles of the body of Christ in mending the wounds and brokenness of a missionary especially when they make mistakes in their given assignments.
With the article was a picture of the conference participants and speakers. In the back row is a tall white guy. You guessed it. It’s Dr. David Tee/David Thiessen/Derrick Thomas Thiessen.
The person who left the comments on this site about Thiessen contacted him about his allegations. This prompted Thiessen to write an incoherent, unhinged post titled When People Hate You:
We were taught years ago, that a good preacher is preaching himself when he prepares and speaks his sermon. Everything we have said on this website plus this topic has already been preached to us. and we learn the lessons we need to learn.
Everything said in this specific post is said with a lot of heartfelt kindness. And we are not going to go into specifics just using the material to glean lessons.
Recently, we received an e-mail from someone who stated they hated us. We never met the person before and had no direct contact with them. Yet they hated us and not because of what we write on our websites.
We knew that attitude would be in that person because sinful third parties told us what they were going to do and there was nothing we could really do about it. The author of that particular e-mail was a victim of those sinful third parties’ evil deeds yet the author decided to direct their hatred and anger toward us.
There really is nothing you can do when a person takes that stance. Their minds are closed by the hatred and other negative and sinful emotions they let rise in their minds and hearts. A Christian cannot approach the people like that author as their closed mind does not let them see the truth and they can get angrier if one tries.
Sometimes it takes a fourth party to get involved to help the angry person to realize their mistake and see the truth. That 4th party can be God doing it directly or sending another human to work with the angry person.
The angry person won’t hear you but they might hear that God-sent person. There are no guarantees as that person has free choice. The one that wrote us chose to believe the lies and half-truths told him or her, (they did not leave a name), We know they were lies and half-truths as we know the whole story.
We are not getting involved because we do not want that author to hate the people who did this to him or her. They are as much a victim of those third parties as a person who is killed is a victim of a murderer.
We cannot get angry at them for their content in the letter nor do we hold any ill will or negative thoughts against the, We understand where they are coming from. BUT, they have always had a choice.
God’s instructions throughout the Bible apply to the author of that e-mail as well as to every victim that has existed in this world. They can choose the path that person is on right now or they can choose to follow the path that God laid out in the Bible.
We as Christians cannot force that choice nor demand that they choose God’s way over the sinful evil way they have decided to follow. That is up to the Holy Spirit to convict and convince that and those people of their wrong choice.
By not choosing God’s way, they leave themselves on a path to destruction as their hatred and unwillingness to forgive destroys them. They should forgive because they do not know the whole story and are making bad assumptions about the situation and the circumstances surrounding that situation.
They are taking someone’s word for what happened even though the words they received were not true. That is wrong and makes them as bad as the third parties that planned this direction.
The key is for these people to learn that God’s instructions apply to them even though they may not be a Christian. They are the ones in disobedience to God, not the person they hate. Christians must remember that they are not responsible for the decisions of those who hate them.
That responsibility lies on the people who decided to hate. We cannot force decisions on others even though the people that ran the different Inquisitions tried. They were given free choice just like Christians were and their decisions are on their shoulders.
You can’t pass the buck on this issue. Even Christians are responsible for their choices and we must make the right ones as well. As for the author of that e-mail, we do not think bad of them or hate them. They just do not understand that they are victims of evil and deception.
We would hope and pray that God sends a 4th party to that person and help them before it is too late for them. Christians will face different situations where people will hate them just for being Christian. That is not our responsibility.
Our responsibility is that we obey Christ in all situations even when we are victims ourselves. The author of that e-mail said that we would be too chicken to respond, while that person should have made sure their e-mail address accepted responses.
Sometimes all Christians can do is leave these types of people in God’s hands and endure the hatred. Responding in kind is not Jesus supported. Getting all the facts is important before you draw conclusions.
Coming to a conclusion without all the facts means you are making faulty conclusions that lead you away from God and his ways. That is not the right move to make. Christians need to do the same thing especially when they are trying to reach out and win the other person to Christ.
While it is almost impossible to understand what the hell Theissen is talking about, I have concluded that he sees himself as a “victim,” unfairly persecuted and he believes “God” will take care (kill?) of the person making these allegations.
I have long believed that Thiessen was hiding something. I will leave it up to him to defend himself. I will gladly give Thiessen space on this site to rebut the allegations laid at his feet.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Much like the raccoons and possums who have worn a path in our back yard from coming to our house multiple times a day, Fake Dr. David Tee/David Thiessen/TheologyArcheology continues to cut a deep digital path to this site. Unable to have any original thoughts of his own, Tee has written more than a hundred posts about me and my friend Ben Berwick.
Several days ago, I wrote a post titled Humor: How You Know You Have Gastroparesis — Part One, detailing my battle with gastroparesis. Tee, knowing that I DON’T like people offering me unsolicited medical advice, decided to offer me medical advice anyway. I responded to Tee’s ignorant, unscientific medical advice with a post titled Eating “Right.” This, along with the post How Evangelical Churches Exploit Children to Advance Their Agenda, led to Tee writing a tirade against Bruce Gerencser, the Evangelical pastor turned atheist. Filled with attacks on my character, Tee let it be known that he is done with me. He (actually we) has knocked the metaphorical dust off his (our) sandals, saying I am worse than the Sodomites in the Bible story about Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah. (Tee can’t help but let his latent homophobia leak out when he is outraged.)
We Did It [did what? Get laid? Why not own your behavior David and say, I DID IT. Not WE, YOU. You are the one who writes your posts. Not God. Not your wife. Not the Holy Spirit. YOU, and YOU alone.]
The most recent response we got from BG [Bruce Gerencser. Try writing it out, David. You can do it. Stop being so lazy.] was the straw that tipped the scales. This will be the last time we will link to a web page on his site as there is no sense of decency in that man [no, my problem is with you personally, David. Most people think I’m a kind, thoughtful man. Just ask Polly or my children. I double-dawg dare you to ask them. And then you can apologize for your repeated attacks on my character, your lies, half-truths, and distortions.] Instead of being gracious [guilty], he was mean [lie], hate-filled [lie], and downright insulting [guilty].
So we have knocked the dust off our sandals from him and his site. It is because he was about as nice as the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. [I treated you in kind, David. Want to be treated better? Don’t be an asshole.] There was no point for him to take that route [you don’t decide what I write about or why. Want to be portrayed in a better light? Stop being a lying asshole.] but knowing him [you have gone out of your way to NOT know me, to ignore, discredit , or distort my autobiographical writing] all we can say is that it is par [par 3?] for the [putt-putt] course.
He quit [first attack on my character] which makes what happens in the church, none of his business. He will forever be known [only in your mind] as a quitter [second attack on my character] as he gave up on Christ and turned into Jesus’ enemy. How Christian parents raise their children is also none of his business [sounds like my post got too close to home].
His posts are just reminders to everyone [no, just you] that he could not hack [third attack on my character] the Christian life and he serves as an example of what happens to believers when they start listening to evil and unbelievers. [What, exactly, happens? I’m happy. I have a wonderful wife, six awesome children, and thirteen super-duper grandchildren. I am blessed beyond all measure. All praise be to Loki!]
We did our best [lie] to understand his point of view [lie] but as we read the stories of his life that he so happily promotes to the world, we found that he was not leaning on God [fourth attack on my character] or following God’s instruction [fifth attack on my character] throughout his ministry [lie].
He is an example of those preachers who do things on their own strength [sixth attack on my character] and use their own ideas and thoughts to serve God [seventh attack on my character]. That is not how servants of God are to act. For us, being called by God is a humbling experience and one that tempers all of our actions.
We do not try to do anything on our own strength [lie] using our own ideas [lie] but always look to God for what we are to post here [lie]. That way our heads do not get too big [which head? Tee gets a boner every time he reads my writing]. The credit goes to God and we are fine with that, after all, it is his ministry and words [lie], not ours.
Do we care what he writes on his website [is the pope Catholic?]? Sometimes we do because he is trashing God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit and those acts make it our business [ooh, David is God’s business manager!]. But he is just another pastor among a myriad of pastors and missionaries, as well as church leaders who have walked away from the faith [I’m one who has a blog read by thousands of people. I have more followers than Jesus did during his earthly ministry. Talk about someone who was a failure.]
We can find the same errors in thinking from other atheists who are a lot nicer than he is (and who are not so narcissistic [eighth attack on my character]). He has no story [lie] except one of failure [ninth attack on my character] and that is not something that should be broadcast anywhere [change the channel if you don’t like the broadcast].
We taught with a guy in Korea for 2 years who did nothing but brag about his failures he was not very much fun to be around. Nor did we hang out with him except at the Hagwon we taught at. [Tee is a failure himself. No longer a pastor, he rages against atheists and “false Christians” from a dimly lit basement in the Philipinnes. I have no problem with how he lives his life. Each to his or her own, right “we”? :)]
Failure is not something one should talk about [I suspect most of the readers of this blog appreciate my willingness to write about my mistakes and failures. That’s what makes me human.] unless they found a better way to live [I have, but Tee refuses to acknowledge it. Why? In his truncated mind, only Fundamentalist Christianity is a life worth living] and BG [David remains too lazy to type out my name.] has not. Or if they found where they made their mistake and made a comeback. BG is just one of the many that Jesus warned us about, those who fell away from the church [Jesus mentioned me by name?].
He is not special [ninth attack on my character] and with his refusal to change [I did change, big time, from Evangelicalism to atheism/humanism.] or try to return [why would I want to return to the bondage of Egypt?], there is nothing anyone can do for him. We see the reality of the words of scripture about those who deny Christ after once believing and crucifying him all over. That is what BG does and it is embarrassing and shameful [close your eyes, David] to see take place.
So in the next 38 posts or so, we should have different content from different sources. We cannot get anything new from his website [Tee finally admits he has nothing original to say; that he uses my site for content for his blog and its handful of readers] because it is the same old story- Christians are bad [lie] and our [Tee’s personal God-on-a-Shelf diety] God does not exist [lie].
We won’t be using MM’s [Meerkat Musings, Ben Berwick] site that much either because it is the same story from him [nope. Ben is not an atheist. Ben has corrected him about his numerous times. Tee continues to lie]. They are two men who want everyone to ignore Christ and his ways for their ways [lie]. That is wrong. They are wrong.
As for the linked article above, Christians do not indoctrinate children [yes, they do, as I have repeatedly shown]. We know that the unbelieving world does but that is par for the course for those who do not believe. They like to accuse Christians of the very same acts they commit on a grander scale.
As you go through life, do not be like MM or BG [good advice :)]. Proverbs 3:4-6 [my life verse when I was a Christian] has some very good words for all believers to follow. Look to God to guide you, lean on his wisdom, acknowledge him.
Being humble is one key to a good Christian life it is a gift we should never throw away like it was trash. The life is hard but it is precious as it is the only offer of salvation we will get. Why give salvation up for nothing?
Will David Tee write another post about me or Ben Berwick? Stay tuned. 🙂 My money is on yes.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
And whoever does not receive you nor listen to your words, as you leave that house or city, shake the dust off your feet. Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment, than for that city. (Matthew 10:14,15)
We do not take scripture lightly like that. You can ask why we [the royal WE] do not do the same thing to BG [Bruce Gerencser] and MM [Ben Berwick], after all, they have not received our words nor the truth. We have only considered that action recently but we hesitate. [Tee wrongly thinks I give a shit. By all means dust off your sandals! It’s not that I haven’t received Tee’s words, I have. Unfortunately, Tee the man gets in the way of anything he might say.]
Not so much for BG as he is beyond hope [how does Tee know this? Did God tell him?] but more for his readers. We would not want to harm anyone who may still have a chance to be saved [what about those who are already saved? Scores of Christians read this blog.] As for MM, we do not do it as there is still a chance that he will see the light and see the error of his ways and come to Christ.
We do not want to shut down any opportunity he may have of becoming a believer, even though his hatred of the truth is a major stumbling block for him. [I can’t wait to see what Ben has to say about this!] In using this type of instruction we really have to be careful as when we use it frivolously we may not be in God’s will and harm someone that may still come to Christ. [Tee is delusional. His atrocious behavior has been on display on this site and his blog for all to see. He has written (well, I write, he steals) more than thirty posts about BG and MM since January 1, 2022. He has done more to keep people away from Hey-Zeus than I ever could.]
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
I promised I would stop responding to Fake Dr. David Tee/TheologyArcheology/David Thiessen/TEWSNBN in 2022. So far, I have been a good boy, but today I plan to break my promise (much like my promise that I will put the toilet seat down) so I can share with readers Tee’s latest post about me and my friend Ben Berwick (who blogs at Meerkat Musings). Since January 1, 2022, Tee has written twenty-four posts about the two of us. Twenty-four! What follows is his latest:
BG had an article the other day about the supposed war on deconstructing one’s evangelical faith. You can read it here if you are interested. We are not [yet Tee responded to it]. The article is filled with the same old false teaching that has been around since Christ walked the earth.
….
We have had some thoughts on our minds [stop looking at porn, David] for some time now. They concern BG & MM [still too lazy to type out our names]. You will notice that we may only link to an article they wrote as a reference point. We do not analyze their words that much anymore [did you ever analyze our words? I mean thoughtful, critical analysis?].
There is no point to as all we get in response is to be called liars [if it walks, talks, and acts like a liar, it is a liar] and that they did not say what we recorded them as saying. We do not need the hassle [yet, you keep writing about us].
There was a time we did try to understand BG’s story [bullshit] per his public wish. But we found that to be a wasted effort. He really doesn’t want anyone to understand his story [most people understand my story just fine], he just wants to receive sympathy, attention, and play the victim card [and money and blow jobs too :)].
There is nothing you can do for such people. We are sad [no you are not] that he made his decision to walk away from the faith and all we can do is knock the dirt off our sandals fathered from his website [who had sex with my website and fathered, uh, dirt?] and walk away [promise?]. We hesitate to do that because he is already in enough spiritual trouble, we do not want to add to it. [Tees fails to understand that his behavior actually makes me think less of Jesus and Christianity, as do all such Christian Assholes. Do better, David, do better. Start with the fruit of the Spirit.]
Be careful when you encounter those who once believed and now do not. They will trample pearls beneath their feet and cause you great harm if you are not careful [😂😂😂].
You may question your faith if you listen to their words [that’s the idea]. Don’t listen to them as they are nothing but false teachers and false prophets [yes, but are our words true?]. They do not bring you anything from God [of course not, we are non-Christians] nor will they help you in your spiritual growth [we will, however, help you get free from the Evangelical cult].
They will help you walk away from your faith if you let their seeds of destruction get planted in your souls and minds. We watched Bart Ehrman debate Craig Evans once and the former did not come to debate.
He came to evangelize the faithful away from the faith [this is a lie, or, at best, a personal opnion]. That is what BG and other atheists will do if you let them [resistence is futile]. They are ready to evangelize you away from salvation with their lies and untruths [and with Satan’s help, we will prevail].
Don’t let it happen. Stick with [my Fundamentalist version of] the truth and do not deter from it. Do not listen to those who do not believe but give them the truth in love. They are the ones who are lost and deceived, do not join them.
They are the ones who made the mistake and the wrong decision, not you [sounds like Tee is having a crisis of faith].
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
We are writing this as BG continues [and I shall continue to do so as long as clerics commit crimes] his Black collar series. He likes [Actually, I don’t like it. Doing so is a necessary burden, one which often makes me feel like I have been wading in a septic tank.] to point out the ‘sins’ of Christians even though he declares there is no such thing as sin. [Yes, and that’s why the series is about “crimes,” not “sins.” Tee knows this because I have explained it to him several times, yet he continues to lie about and misrepresent my views — which, of course, he will deny doing so.]
But, pointing out other people’s mistakes, errors in judgment, and other problems [crimes, David, crimes] doesn’t help anyone [actually it validates the experiences of victims and lets them know others care about what they have gone through]. It only makes the person doing look bad, hate-filled, and antagonistic.
It doesn’t help their reputation either and only inflames the problems between believer and unbeliever. [No, Tee is the only one with enflamed hemorrhoids over the Black Collar Crime Series. Most people appreciate me calling attention to crimes committed by so-called men of God.] We suggest that atheists and BG start removing the beams from their eyes. [ David, by all means, start a blog that reports on criminal behavior by atheists. Show me the “beams.” I have never raped or sexually assaulted anyone. I have never sexually molested children. Have I ever committed a crime? Sure. Who hasn’t — in the strictest sense of the word. I’ve committed a few misdemeanors over the years, but no felonies.] maybe then they would see Christians in a better light. [We see Christianity as it is. And trust me, David, when you are in the picture, all we see is violence and ugliness. Defending rapists, perverts, and child molesters! Dude, you need to get saved!]
They may not want to as they may find out the truth that they are wrong and that may scare them to an early grave. [sigh]
….
Finally, make sure to obey Jesus and get the beams out of your eyes so you do not end up like BG, atheists, and bad Christians [like David Tee]. You need to see clearly [believe as David Tee does] before you can help others do the same [defend rapists, perverts, and child molesters].
— “Dr. David Tee (David Thiessen, TheologyArcheology/TEWSNBM), Theologyarcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, Misc. Topics, December 20, 2021
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The “Sketchy” Dr. David Tee, AKA David Thiessen, AKA TheologyArcheology
“Dr.” David Tee continues to express butthurt outrage over virtually everything I write. Tee, whose real name is David Thiessen, is an Evangelical preacher who lives in the Philippines or South Korea. Yesterday, Tee sent me an email about my post titled Why Do So Many Evangelicals Abuse Their Children? Carolyn, my editor, replied to his email.
Tee: You [Bruce Gerencser] quit Christ and the church. Learn to mind your own business.
Carolyn: You barged in on Bruce’s blog uninvited. Take your own advice and learn to mind your own business.
Tee: Hiding behind a woman’s skirt now? You made your contact form open to everyone. I would have had more respect for you if you weren’t a quitter, coward, and liar. Learn to mind your business and leave the people you quit on alone. You raised your kids your way, let Christians raise their kids their way. You are not in charge of how kids should be raised.
Carolyn: You seem to think that people are forced to read Bruce’s blog. Bruce does “leave people . . . alone.” His remarks are only for those who read the blog. And they don’t even have to believe him or follow his advice. But they choose to read his writing.
Bruce will have a hard time “hiding behind [my] skirt.” I don’t generally wear skirts or dresses. I am his editor and I try to help him keep up with his emails, which are many. If you want to consider that hiding behind my skirt, so be it. That’s your perception. And I don’t think Bruce cares very much what your perception might be.
I wonder why you keep letting Bruce live rent-free inside your head. If you dislike his blog so much, one would think you would be better off moving on.
Tee did not respond to Carolyn’s last email to him. Instead, he took his outrage to his blog. Titled, Mind Your Own Business, Tee stated [all grammar in the original]:
This is getting far more difficult to do these days. far too many people post their personal business on the internet basically every minute of the day. It can be very difficult to not comment when people put personal stuff in the public sphere.
….
Atheists have this same problem and while we are not going to quote from his rant, BG has stepped over the line and stuck his nose in where it does not belong. The link is in his initials.
It is the same old story with atheists. They apply their subjective thinking to any aspect of life and think they know better than anyone else, including God. Of course, they distort the issues, especially when it comes to corporal punishment.
There is nothing wrong with spanking a child or even using a switch. As long as the punishment fits the crime and does not cross the boundary between discipline and a beating.
Atheists rarely see the difference and have interfered in parental rights far too often. They think their way is the only way usurping God’s authority in this matter.
Unfortunately, the secular authorities usually agree with those atheists who are up in arms against proper discipline and the world is a worse place than it should have been.
On the other hand, many believers misunderstand God’s word and go too far in their application of biblical teaching when it comes to discipline.
The go-to verse for using spanking, a switch, a belt, or a rod does not say that those forms of punishment are to be used. The verse simply says that those who fail to discipline or use discipline will spoil their child.
We have no problem with Christians using spanking, a rod or a switch, etc., when they discipline but we do have a problem when they go beyond God’s instructions on how to discipline.
The application of punishment needs to be fair, just and does not provoke children to wrath. it is also to lead the child or offender to repentance. It is not supposed to harden their hearts to the point they cannot be redeemed.
Jesus used corporal punishment against the money changers. His discipline fit the crime those men were committing. They didn’t do it again that we know of.
Discipling children is one area many people have a hard time keeping their noses out of. They think their ways of discipline is [sic] better than someone else’s and they let them know about it.
….
The atheists’ subjective opinion does not matter nor is it better than God’s way. The concept of abuse is also subjective and in both topics, the atheist is not right nor has a monopoly on how those issues should be addressed or labeled.
The atheist is the one who is deceived and blind, not the Christian. it is up to the Christian to set the example and show the unbeliever how discipline should be done. If the atheist disagrees, too bad.
They are free to discipline their children as they see fit but they have no right to tell the believer how it should be done. Nor do they have the right to stick their nose in where it does not belong and remove the child from a believer’s home.
They would not like that done to them thus they should not do it to people they hate or disagree with. Sticking one’s nose in where it does not belong only causes more trouble and makes everything worse, not better.
Following God’s way correctly will make things better, not worse. God knows what is best not the deceived atheist. This is just one area where people should mind their own business.
Those without sin can cast stones but those who are with sin, whether they admit there is such a thing or not, should not interfere. Their ways are not better than God’s and they do not know more than God.
Come to find out, Tee actually sent two more emails to Carolyn:
Your words mean nothing and you certainly do not understand the real world. You do not even know what ‘hiding behind someone’s skirt’ really means
if you dislike me so much, why do I keep getting pingbacks from BG’s website? I think you have everything backward as I stop thinking about BG when I stop using his words as an example.
Since BG quit Christ and the Church, he should find a different topic to write about. He doesn’t know what he is talking about.
and
Uhm, BG, you are using copyrighted photos without permission. You owe me $1000 for the copyright violation. That fee will cover all the photos you have used or will use in the future. I will expect an electronic money transfer shortly
These two emails were innocently missed by Carolyn, but Tee thinks there’s some sort of conspiracy going on:
Caught you in another lie. I checked my records and I did respond to her last email. Why don’t you tell the complete truth for a change instead of manipulating the situation to fit your desired results.
Oh, and you owe me $1000 for unauthorized use of my copyrighted photos. Your use does not fall under the fair use exemptions.
*sigh*
In the past, Tee has defended Christians who abuse their spouses and sexually molest children. He is a staunch defender of miscreants such as Ravi Zacharias and Bill Cosby. He shows little to no interest in caring for or supporting victims. Why is that? And now he supports abusing children.
What are we to make of the fake “Dr.” Tee? In 2012, a woman left a comment on a post about Tee that said:
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
We are going to get this out of the way right now. There is only one reason for divorce. The unbelieving world has created a myriad of reasons but in reality and truth, there is only one- adultery.
Since God and Jesus get to make the rules, there are no substitutes. While the unbelieving world feels that they are more compassionate and more moral than God, they keep coming up with new ways to break up a solid family.
Sadly, the church has followed the unbelieving world and added far more reasons than the one Jesus gave. Many years ago we were in an online discussion with a woman on this very topic. We stated our position, as above, and she came back with, ‘My pastor said abandonment’ is grounds for divorce.
We came back with a solid no and restated adultery and her response was always the same – ‘and abandonment. her pastor was wrong and so are all those people who add abuse or domestic violence to the list.
Domestic violence is a sin but it is not a reason for divorce. In fact, encouraging people to divorce an abusive partner does not make the situation any better. Many women are killed after they have moved out and divorced their husbands.
….
Does this mean we are condemning people to abusive relationships? No. We are telling them not to sin in response to the sins committed against them. Sinning in response does not solve the problem either.
Remember Jesus was heavily abused by his family and the Romans, yet he did not sin in retaliation. He set the example. He is the one to follow. Can spouses and children bring charges against their mates and parents?
This is a delicate issue and one has to use the law wisely. Punishment is not for revenge or to hurt others. It is to bring the offender to repentance. You cannot achieve that goal if you sin in response or deal with the offender unjustly.
….
We do not sin when sin is done against us. Forgiveness does not make everything go away or make it better. Nor does it remove punishment but it helps us see clearly and find the just punishment for the offense or offenses committed.
Revenge is mine saith the Lord. Our duty is to allow God to lead us to the just punishment and not let our own will get in the way.
“Dr.” David Tee (David Thiessen), Theology Archeology: A Site for the Glory of God, Domestic Violence, October 6, 2021
