Earlier tonight, I received the following email from a drive-by reader named Brandon. Brandon read a handful of posts before emailing me. Brandon ignored my request to NOT send me emails such as his, and emailed anyway. Evidently, he lacks basic decency and respect for other people.
My response to Brandon’s missive is below.
Dear Bruce, I’m so saddened by your story. But it’s one of mankind.
Why be saddened by my story? I have been happily married to the same beautiful woman for forty-four years. We have six wonderful children and thirteen grandchildren. We own our own home, drive a 2020 Ford Edge, and own a 65-inch TV. We even have a cat. I am well-fed and own enough clothing and shoes to last me the rest of my life. My life isn’t perfect, but damn, Brandon, you gotta admit that I have it pretty good.
Now, if you were saddened by my health problems, I would understand. I am saddened too. Every day is a challenge for me. However, I suspect what saddens you is my atheism; my rejection of your peculiar God. I am quite willing to believe in your God once you provide sufficient evidence for its existence. Further, you claim that the Bible is the Word of God. You might even believe the Bible is inerrant and infallible. Again, once you provide sufficient evidence for your claims, I will believe. The same goes for the supernatural claims found in the Bible or your affinity for John Calvin’s gospel. Convince me, and I will believe.
You, of course, have provided no such evidence. Instead, you just want me to know that I am headed for Hell. You could have spent your opportunity convincing of the truthfulness of your claims. Instead, you preached AT me, condemning me to the flames of the Lake of Fire. Perhaps you think I know all I need to know, so there’s no need to share the “truth” with me. This would be strange since, according to Calvinism, God must give me eyes to see and ears to hear. Maybe this was the night God opened my eyes and ears to the glorious Calvinistic gospel. You wasted a golden opportunity to reach me.
Of course, I am being sarcastic. You have zero chance of reaching me for Jesus. Even “God” can’t save me. I am a happily unsaved, apostate, reprobate atheist. I’m confident that the only thing I will “see” after I die is nothingness. There is no afterlife, no Heaven, no Hell. Surely you knew that I was not a prospect for Heaven, yet you emailed me anyway. Why? Think about that for a bit, Brandon. Be honest. Your email is all about you being “right,” and not about leading a poor lost sinner to saving faith in Jesus Christ. Remember, God uses “means.”
You were never saved, nor was I who grew up in the church and had a similar story.
How can you possibly know if I am saved? For that matter, how can you possibly KNOW you are saved? Calvinism teaches that a person must endure/persevere until the end to be saved. Thus, no Calvinists can KNOW they are saved. For all you know, I am presently saved, God is chastising me, and will safely bring me to the end in grace. How dare you speak for God! 🙂
Surely you know it is a bad idea to judge others by our own personal experiences. I am not you. You have no idea who I am or what I have experienced in life, yet you choose to judge the sum of my life through the lens of your own life.
Let me quote you my favorite Bible verse: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. (Proverbs 18:13)
You cannot and will not accept Jesus. He chooses you. You have no say in the matter, and you cannot reject Him. I was convinced I was saved until I realized I was not. We have no say in the matter. No matter what prayer you pray, how much you do, or how “good” you are, you cannot do a thing to make Jesus save you. I learned the hard way. I hope you learn too.
Sigh (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh.”) You do know that I was a Calvinist for years, right? I know the gospel you are preaching inside and out. (Please see the series Why I Became a Calvinist.) I am sure that you will find some way to “pick” at my story, hoping to prove that I never was a Christian. However, all the extant evidence suggests that I was a devoted follower of Jesus. You will search in vain for someone who knew me at the time that will say “Bruce was never a Christian.” Either I was a master deceiver, deceiving church members and colleagues in ministry, or I was, in fact, a committed Christian. That you cannot square this with your peculiar theology is not my problem. I once was saved, and now I am not.
He sends most of us to hell because He is a good and just and loving God. It is only His right, and His mercy and love that He even had Jesus die for a select few of us for His glory. It’s not about us, never has been and never fully will be. Man’s chief purpose is to glorify God in all ways, even if He does not save you, you will acknowledge Him, and you will glorify Him- either in His grace, or His justice.
There’s Calvin’s God in all its heinous glory. I hope readers will ponder Brandon’s words. It is just and loving for God to send sinners to Hell. I assume this applies to children, and infants too; and anyone who is not elect.
Think and read. May God be merciful upon you.
I have done all the reading I need to do, Brandon. Did you seriously believe your judgmental letter would enlighten me in any way? I hope you will think twice before arrogantly and self-righteously emailing strangers and telling them they are headed for Hell and na-na-na there’s nothing they can do about it. Do better, Brandon, do better.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Victor Justice, a Calvinist who hides behind fake names, and email addresses, and uses a VPN to keep me from blocking him, continues to send me hateful, vicious emails and comments. I have wiped Justice from this site, but his latest comment was too “good” to let it rot in the spam folder with Revival Fires’ comments.
You are truly a 100% certified piece of human waste!
“ I do want to make an offer to the teacher in question:
Invite me to one or more of your classes to talk to them about my political, religious, and social views. I will gladly answer any questions they might have. I will publicly debate you on any issue — even the designated hitter rule for Major League Baseball. Please have your people contact my people and we will set it up.”
I understand that I’m “banned” because I have out classed you on your own blog. I also understand that you secretly are jealous of my debating skills, and that you absolutely understand that too. But I almost thought I’ve seen everything until this pathetic post here today.
Just for clarification; I believe that if your story is correct. This teacher has no business whatsoever doing this to your grandchild. I’m saying —if your story is correct, because you have personally accused me of attacking your children and grandchildren, sigh. You made these false allegations knowing that it wasn’t true.
Anyway, where do you get the unmitigated gall to puff yourself up and pretend that you’ll intellectually mix it up with anyone, anywhere, at anytime? You are the biggest yellow belly, hiding under your wife’s skirt, cowardly troll I’ve ever seen!
You’re afraid, VERY AFRAID, of debating Victor Justice. You are afraid, even though you control the entire platform! LOL.
Just know, that I know, that you know, and that we both know, that you ain’t worth the crap!
Sincerely yours,
Mr. Victor Justice
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
The reasons for my deconversion are many. Poor pay, psychological stress, and chronic illness and pain, all played a part in my loss of faith, as did my inability to square the indifference of God to the suffering of humans and animals alike. Ultimately, though, I left Christianity because I no longer believed the central claims of Christianity to be true.
Calvinist troll Victor Justice stumbled upon this post and decided to use it to deconstruct my life. What follows is my response. All spelling and grammar are in the original.
So let’s unpack some of this:
POOR PAY:
….
Paying fellow Christians fairly and graciously for the work that they do should be part of the love we should have for the brethren. I can see how being mistreated in this way could build great resentment. I’d also think that mature, GOD fearing men would be able to distinguish between the atrocious acts of some men, many who are fake Christians, and GOD’s real plan clearly proclaimed and commanded by His holy Word.
Justice will search in vain for a post where I say I resented the churches I pastored for any reason, let alone the income they paid me. Every church I pastored (all of which were new church plants or young churches), except two, paid me what they could. The other two could have paid me more but chose not to do so. That’s why I worked secular jobs. I was always a full-time pastor, regardless of what I was paid.
I do appreciate the fact that Justice admits he is a fake Christian. His “atrocious acts” on this site make it clear that he is not a real Christian.
You strike me as someone who wouldn’t pay those who labor in the ministry much better, unless you were personally affected. That’s the honest sense I get from reading you extensively for many years. You sound like the quintessential cheapskate from what I’ve been able to glean. OCPD is highly correlated with extreme selfishness, but the sufferer still has a choice.
Nothing I have written would lead a fair-minded reader to conclude I was a “quintessential cheapskate.” Justice is just making shit up. He continues to say that he has read my writing extensively for years when, in fact, he has not.
By all means, ask Polly, my children, grandchildren, friends, colleagues in the ministry, and former church members if I am selfish. These people will give testimony to the fact that I am a generous person, someone who has gladly suffered loss for the sake of others. Over the years, I loaned church members money (which often went unpaid), bought them groceries, paid their rent and utilities, purchased them automobiles and appliances, clothed their children, and did what I could, with my own money, to model Jesus to them. Maybe I will share some of these stories in the future.
Justice, of course, has zero evidence for his claims.
PSYCHOLOGICAL STRESS:
I speak from experience as someone with OCD (not OCPD). Living with this type of disorder would predispose you to elevated levels of stress no matter what your chosen profession. Add to your OCPD, narcissistic tendencies, obesity, and indifference and you have a recipe for disaster that is now very much your reality. But, we both know that the real elephant in the room is trying to do this IN THE FLESH, as you are not saved, and you never were saved. End of story here.
No matter what I say or try to explain, Justice will continue to say things like this. Yes, I was diagnosed with OCPD. Yes, I am obese, though I weigh 110# less than I did two years ago. Everything else Justice says is untrue, and he knows it.
CHRONIC ILLNESS/PAIN:
Again I speak with much experience. You’re a miserable person to smear others living with severe pain, illness, disease—with the fruits of a rotten to the core, heretical, bastard like yourself! This amounts to nothing but self pity.
I have no idea what Justice is talking about. Where have I ever smeared someone else living with chronic illness and pain? Justice will, again, search in vain for evidence to bolster his claims.
TENETS OF CHRISTIANITY:
You started dabbling with leftist political thought, which is some of the most effective work of the Devil. What happened in the process of your lust for the things of the world, the flesh, and the Devil is that you got Completely Sucked IN!
Your story really isn’t really so unique or fascinating, as it is common, pathetic, and sad. It has not only cost you everything, but it’s also cost YOUR FAMILY everything…you fat, lazy, miserable slob! Your family—your children—that the LORD Jesus Christ blessed you with, are now all messed up! And they will continue to be messed up because of the sins that you have committed!
GOD Almighty blessed you in all of His graciousness and deep goodness. You have no one to blame, but yourself. Not Polly, not Polly’s family, not your parents, not your grandparents, not any trolls or haters online! Just little, sad, Bruce. You dig?
These paragraphs will be the last ones Justice will ever write on this site. The same goes for Revival Fires — Justice’s lover. Both of them are using VPNs to evade blocking technology. While I know what VPN service they are using, I can not block it due to the fact that other readers, including several regular commenters, are using this particular VPN service. I will no longer acknowledge their emails/comments, deleting them immediately. I have also deleted ALL of their previous comments. Both of these vile men only care about inflicting me with psychological harm. I plan to rob them of the power to do so.
After this post was published, Justice left the following comment on YouTube:
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Every week, without fail, I will get at least one email from an Evangelical who mistakes me for a Christian. I don’t know how this happens. My bio is on the top of every page and at the bottom of every post. It says:
Bruce Gerencser, 65, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 44 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I know that some Evangelicals are lazy readers, lacking basic curiosity. (Please see Curiosity, A Missing Evangelical Trait.) When I read a new site, I always check out the bio page. I want to know more about the author, especially his or her background.
Several days ago, I received the following email from a Southern Baptist man:
I attend an SBC church and have been surprised lately to see a man who is admittedly a new Christian and former rock musician, come into the church, become a deacon in a short period of time, and then started wearing pony tails, hair clips, man buns, while he sings whatever emotionally filled song he can find. He was allowed to baptize recently and was obviously nervous doing so with him not even mentioning the name of Jesus Christ while he was doing so. I am very concerned and the pastor does not even care in spite of mentioning scripture regarding him being a novice and not qualifying to be a deacon as well as the I Corinthians scripture about long hair and men. The pastor states he believes in the inerrancy of scripture, but is fine with this going on stating that he thinks this guy may change with time. It is so discouraging to see such compromise. The church’s school dress code is in conflict with the man who is a leader in the church which hosts the school where my child attends. I don’t understand the complacency on this when we have a society bent on blurring the lines between men and women.
Think about all the things that are going on in the world today, yet this man is concerned with:
A ponytail-wearing, bun-wearing former rock musician who is now a Christian and sings emotionally filled songs in church; who said the wrong words when baptizing someone
A pastor who isn’t concerned about this affront to God and the Bible
The aforementioned man violates the church’s dress code (I had a hard time deciphering what he wrote on this issue)
The letter writer’s child attends the church’s Christian school, and allowing this man to wear his hair in an “obviously” female style is a sin and sets a bad example for church members and school students
The real issue is that the letter writer thinks it is a sin for a man to have long hair. I wonder if he thinks the same about women wearing short hair? The Bible condemns both. (Please see Is it a Sin for Men to Have Long Hair?) Of all the things to be worried about today: inflation, rising interest rates, the mid-term election, the threat of civil war or nuclear war, or a host of other serious problems facing not only the United States but the world, this man is worried about a longhaired man he doesn’t like singing songs in church.
Welcome to the world of Baptist Fundamentalism.
I sent the letter writer a one-sentence response: you do know I’m an atheist, right? I received no response from him.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Yesterday, I received the following email from a man named Fain Grogg. My editor, Carolyn, sent Grogg a curt reply earlier today — thank you — but I thought I would respond to several allegations and assertions Grogg makes in his email. All spelling and grammar are found in the original.
Bruce, Yes I have read article of Kenny Bishop, I had heard around 1999 that he made an unwanted advance only a female (from the Bishops music business office). I knew that at that time- he continued preaching.
Grogg came to this site looking for information (dirt) about Kenny Bishop — a former Fundamentalist Southern Gospel singer who is now a gay man and the pastor of a United Church of Christ congregation. If you are not familiar with Kenny’s story, please read Southern Gospel Singer Kenny Bishop is Now a Gay United Church of Christ Pastor. I have been acquainted with Kenny for thirty years. My wife, Polly, and I have heard The Bishops in concert several times, and we owned most of their CDs back in our Christian days. Even today, I will listen to The Bishops from time to time.
I was pleasantly surprised when I learned that Kenny is gay and is now the pastor of a mainline congregation in Louisville, Kentucky. I can only imagine the personal pain Kenny has experienced going from a hardcore Fundamentalist to a progressive, inclusive Christian.
I am aware of the rumor mentioned by Grogg. I don’t know exactly what happened. I do know that Kenny abruptly left his family’s singing group, later divorcing his wife of fifteen years, Debra Hardy. In 2018, Kenny married Mason Miller.
My question is at one time you must have given your heart and life to God & felt the calling to preach for 25 years.
Yes, at the age of fifteen, I was saved/born again at a revival meeting at Trinity Baptist Church in Findlay, Ohio. Two weeks later, I stood before the church and told them that I believed God was calling me to preach. Not long after, I preached my first sermon. At the age of nineteen, I enrolled for classes at Midwestern Baptist College, an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) institution in Pontiac, Michigan. While there, I met and later married a beautiful dark-haired preacher’s daughter. In 1979, Polly and I left Midwestern, moving to Bryan, Ohio. Two months later, I started working for Montpelier Baptist Church. All told, I spent twenty-five years in the ministry, pastoring churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Over the course of my thirty-three-year preaching career, I preached 4,000 sermons. While I certainly wasn’t perfect and did things I certainly regret, the bend of my life was toward godliness and holiness. I was, in every way, a Christian.
What happened to cause you to walk away from God’s calling on your life or did you just decide that being a minister was an easy paycheck. Then to say 2 years later you left Christianity completely. There must have been something drastic happen.
Had Grogg bothered to read the posts on the WHY? page, he would have found ALL the answers to his questions.
Grogg, as many who have come before him, can’t make the square peg of my life story fit into the round hole of his rigid Evangelical Christianity. Instead of considering that HE might the one who has a problem, Grogg goes looking for ulterior motives for my deconversion.
First, without ANY knowledge about the arc of my life, Grogg suggests that I stayed in the ministry because it was an easy paycheck. Is he suggesting that I never was a Christian or that the ministry is a place to make easy money? He doesn’t say, so I find it difficult to understand exactly what he is saying here.
Carolyn schooled Grogg on “all” the money I didn’t make as a pastor, often living in poverty or working long hours at secular jobs so the churches I pastored could have a full-time pastor. Not one of the seven churches I pastored over the years paid me a living wage. None of these churches provided me with health insurance, retirement, or other fringe benefits. I pastored churches because I loved God, desired to win souls for Christ, and wanted to help people grow and mature in their faith. I worked secular jobs while pastoring. I ALWAYS made more money outside of the church.
Grogg suggests that something “drastic” had to happen for me to walk away from Christianity. I am sure he thinks there is some sort of nefarious reason/secret for my deconversion, but as I spell out on the WHY? page, I deconverted because the central claims of Christianity no longer made sense to me. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) Using reason, skepticism, and common sense, I concluded that the beliefs at the core of Christianity: the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible, the deity of Christ, the virgin birth, Jesus’ resurrection from the dead, and his miracles were not true. Not believing these things, I could no longer call myself a Christian. Was my deconversion “drastic”? Yes, but it was the right conclusion after I had carefully re-examined the teachings of the Bible.
You mentioned for people not to send you words from Bible. The Great Commission that you once believed is why we reach out and pray for you
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
Grogg thinks ignoring my request is justified because the Bible says that Christians are to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every person. Never mind the fact that I am quite familiar with the Christian gospel. What could any of these zealots possibly say to me that I don’t already know? No, the real issue here is not my salvation; it is Evangelicals reinforcing their own beliefs; quelling questions and doubts they might have about their own salvation and beliefs. I get it. My story troubles them. Instead of wrestling with their own doubts and questions, they try to discredit and marginalize me instead.
Imagined if I worshipped DooDoo, as found in an ancient religious text from the first century. Imagine if I came to your house and pissed and shit on your front porch. Would that upset you? I suspect it would. When confronted by you, I replied “Thus saith DooDoo in First Bowel Movement 28:19,20: When thou comest upon a Christian home, thou shalt piss and shit on their front porch, reminding them that I am DooDoo, the one true God, he who moves and lives in all human beings. Would anyone be okay with me doing this? Yet, that is exactly what Grogg and his fellow Evangelicals think they have a right to do. Grogg believes he has no obligation to respect my wishes. And he’s right. He can do what he wants. However, he shouldn’t feign outrage and surprise when I call him out on his boorish behavior.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
A year ago, an Evangelical man using a fake name, Victor [Viktor] Justice, left two comments on this site. One, a vile comment about the death of my dear friend Steve Gupton (please see The Suddenness of Death) was immediately deleted. I did, however, approve the following comment. All spelling and grammar errors, of which there are many, belong to Justice.
Congratulations Little Bruce:
Boy, you’ve really become the embodiment of a woke old fool. I honestly feel shame and pain for what you have done to your children. It’s quite obvious that Polly was never saved, like yourself. This is evidenced by how quickly she turned into a typical, slobbish, western, bimbo. You could’ve joined the Harry Krishnas, and old, dumb, Polly woulda been right behind ya…what a dull, addled brained, dunce you married.
Your children hate your guts. You sound like half a fag, bellyaching night and day about how the whole world has been so cruel to Little Bruce.
The Judgement is closing in on you, son. Your body is falling apart fast and your debt is completely unplayable outside of the Cross of The Lord Jesus Christ Almighty!
Most sincerely,
A worm who Christ died for.
I immediately put Justice on the banned list, making him ineligible to comment. No one attacks my wife, children, grandchildren, or friends and gets by with it. As is my custom, I clear the banned list once a year. And sure as the sun comes up in the morning, Justice left another comment:
Bruce,
I’m not someone who just happened upon your blog. I’ve been reading it for a few years and I typically read for hours at a time.
We have a lot in common. OCPD/OCD, major back issues (crushed disk, advanced DDD, spinal stenosis), neck and head pain, with a extremely painful nerve disorders, etc, etc.
Where we differ from one another is my saving faith in the LORD Jesus Christ Almighty. What I see from you is someone that is the quintessential example of the former fake believer who’s consumed by bitterness, jealousy, and selfishness.
You were never saved. Jesus Christ Almighty is truly your only hope and your running out of time!
Most sincerely,
I banned Justice once again. He then left the following comment (which I deleted):
Little Bruce,
Well, there’s no fool — like an old fool. One thing that I can tell you is that you would never speak to me with anything but respect and reverence in person. You should only call me “Mr. Justice” from now on!
Anyway, getting back to what I was saying, before you “blocked and banned” me for what must be the fifth or sixth time. I HAVE read about 50% of what you have written on this blog over the years. I have several computers, computer locations, email addresses, and the aforementioned VPN. Nice try though…
I appreciated you republishing one of my prior letters to you. For the record, I meant every. Single. WORD. contained in it. Also, when you publish a blog on the World Wide Web, anyone has the ABSOLUTE right to join in on reading the content, making comments, and so forth. As long as they are aren’t doing anything illegal, making threats of violence, or using profanity (yes, you read that right), they have the right to full enjoyment of “your” website.
I rarely bring a man’s wife and family into these types of discussions, but I made an exception with Polly, because of how easily she dumped her “faith”, the faith of her fathers…what a jezebel spirit that lurks within her unregenerate soul.
You are truly one of the lowest, most selfish, Christ hating bigoted pieces of human garbage on the face of the earth! You preached over 4,000 sermons that you didn’t believe, while being paid, and thence went about ripping the heart out of those who you were sworn to minister to and love. You are slightly less abominable than Judas the Son of Perdition. AND NOW…you see yourself as the VICTIM!…Burn in Hell, Jack!
I’m angry about what you have said and done to my LORD and Savior — Jesus Christ Almighty! But, He is so loving that you could still possibly be forgiven and Saved! Hopefully, for your sake, Almighty GOD hasn’t completely turned you over to a reprobate mind. GOD’s grace, love, majesty, and mercy is truly a miracle! Praise His scared, holy, wonderful, and great Name! Glory to His righteous Name!
Most sincerely,
After Justice left this comment, I blocked him at the server level. Of course, this only works if he uses one of the IP addresses I have blocked. As expected, using a VPN, Justice evaded this block and sent me the following email:
I just read your last couple of posts (even though I’m supposed to be banned & blocked). You are really losing your stuff, son. I’ll admit that I find your writing style to be pretty good, albeit the content of what you write is particularly vile. That’s what I’m getting at, you are now producing retrograde, rehashed junk. You honestly have no more story to tell.
Obviously you can’t just stop writing this blog, because it’s your source of hustling money outta those who are suckers for your sob stories. Just know that Victor Justice knows exactly how you’re conning, what I call, the deviant vulnerable.
I watched your clown show, supposedly speaking to the “humanist society.” Being such a “professional photographer” didn’t it dawn on you that it looked like you were talking to yourself in your dingy basement while Polly recorded. You look like a quintessential weakling with your filthy beard, jeans, and one of your grandmother’s old hats from her family’s civil war chest in the attic.
Yeah, being an atheist surely is a bundle of joy. Your nothing but a goofball clown with 10 or so sycophants lapping up your vomit. Good luck to your psychotherapist, who probably laughs you to scorn, the minute you waddle out the door. Good grief!
As you can see, Justice’s goal is to inflict psychological harm. Much like Dr. David Tee, Revival Fires, and other Evangelical zealots, Justice hopes his words will cause harm. He’s not interested in truth or evangelizing me. He’s a playground bully who spends his days verbally molesting and assaulting me, safely ensconced in his mommy’s basement without fear of responsibility and accountability.
It would be easy to dismiss Justice as someone who is mentally ill — and maybe he is. However, I am not willing to give him a pass. It is important for readers to see the connection between Justice’s Fundamentalist beliefs and practices and his behavior. (Justice’s use of certain words suggests he is a Calvinist.) Does anyone believe that Justice’s words are remotely Christian? I know I don’t. Had Justice been a member of one of the churches I pastored, and I learned he was viciously harassing people online, we would have excommunicated him. Such behavior is morally wrong regardless of religious affiliation. Yet, I suspect Justice is a member in good standing at an Evangelical church where he lives. His comments and emails reveal that Justice is a Bible believer. For all I know, he could be a preacher. Over the years, I have had Evangelical preachers take a similar approach. Hiding behind pseudonyms, these so-called men of God hurled all sorts of vile invectives my way. In two instances, I was eventually able to figure out who they were. I turned their comments into a post, and put their real name on the post. Now, that’s justice. 🙂 It is unlikely that I will be able to ferret out Victor Justice. All I can do is ban and block him. When he uses a VPN, I will block the VPN’s IP address bloc. Unfortunately, I run the risk of catching legitimate readers with this block. If that happens to you, please let me know.
A handful of readers (I see you Troy) think I should just delete comments from the Justices, Tees, and Revival Fires of the world. The reason I don’t is this: I want readers to see the ugly underbelly of Evangelical Christianity; that there are beliefs and practices that can and do turn people into vile, nasty, hateful human beings. Justice, Tee, and Revival Fires are not just a few bad apples in a barrel of pristine Red Delicious apples. My email, comments, and social media messages from Evangelicals suggest that a sizeable minority of God’s elect have no problem with viciously attacking anyone they disagree with — contrary to the teachings of Christ. These same people are MAGA and Qanon supporters. I fear these people, given the right circumstances, could be provoked to cause physical harm (as we saw in the 1/6/21 Insurrection).
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
In 2018, I wrote a post titled Emotionally Manipulating IFB Church Members through Music and Preaching Styles. In this article, I detailed the manipulative methods used by Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) evangelist C.T. Townsend. Since then, Townsend’s fans have stopped by to let me know what they think of my critique and of me personally. If you have read my previous responses to Townsend’s acolytes, you know how hostile they can be — in Christian love, of course. 🙂
Today, I received yet another letter from a Townsend devotee, this time, from a woman named Rhonda. Rhonda read all of one post before commenting. What follows is my response to Rhonda. All spelling and grammar are in the original.
I truly feel sorry for you Bruce.
Why? Now, if Rhonda said she felt sorry for me because I am dying or that she was sorry that I had gastroparesis, fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis, and degenerative spine disease, or that I live every moment of every day in pain, I would understand and appreciate her words. However, I suspect Rhonda is saying “I feel sorry for you” because she thinks poorly of me or she thinks that I don’t have a good life post-Jesus.
I know that no matter what I tell Rhonda, her opinion of me is not going to change, but I am going to tell her anyway. My life is better in every way post-Jesus. My wife, Polly, and I have been married for forty-four years. We are blessed to have six wonderful children, four of whom have college educations, and all but our daughter with Down syndrome are gainfully employed. We have thirteen grandchildren, ten girls and three boys, ages two to twenty-two. Most of them are A students. So, while I have a tough row to hoe, health-wise, the rest of my life is good in every way.
I’m so happy and here’s the reason why, Jesus took my burdens all away . . . scratch that. I’m so happy because I am alive. So many things in my life have tried to harm and kill me, yet here I am on my sixty-fifth trip around the sun still alive and kicking. My dad died at age forty-nine and my mom killed herself at age fifty-four. My grandparents, and all my aunts and uncles, save three are long since dead too. Yet, here I am, still among the living. Awesome, right? No God needed.
It is hard for me to believe if you were ever a Christian that you could turn Atheist.
Let me share a bit of the Word of God with Rhonda: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. (Proverbs 18:13)
I am an atheist today because the central claims of Christianity no longer make sense to me. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) Rhonda wants to take my present life and read it back into my fifty years as a Christian. By doing this, Rhonda is able to dismiss my story out of hand. She doesn’t have to wrestle with the fact that I once was a saved, Spirit-filled preacher of the gospel; a man who devoted most of his life to evangelizing the lost and building up the church. My bona fides are every bit as solid as Townsend’s.
I think it is a terrible thing that you would criticize people trying to do God’s work.
Why? Does Rhonda think that Evangelical churches, preachers, and parachurch organizations are above criticism and critique? If so, she is a member of a dangerous cult.
I also believe that CT Townsend is a great preacher. Big deal if he has a certain methods and mannerisms to lead people to the Lord. Big deal if he uses the same technique in every sermon. It seems to me it is working because people are getting saved! I believe a preacher needs to get to peoples hearts in order to get the message across.
My claim is that Townsend, along with countless other Evangelical and IFB preachers, uses emotionally manipulative methods to evangelize people. They do the same when guilting “backslidden” church members into coming to the altar and getting right with God.
I hate to appeal to authority, but the fact of the matter is that I AM an expert on the IFB church movement. Why? First, I was raised in an IFB home. I was saved, baptized, and called to preach in an IFB church. I attended an IFB college. I married an IFB pastor’s daughter. I pastored IFB churches. I am intimately aware of the methods and techniques IFB preachers use to manipulate people. I used these things myself for many years. I know the IFB church movement inside and out.
I DO NOT call this emotional manipulation or bullying. If anything I am thinking that you are trying to be a bully. Leave the preachers alone and quit trying to criticize them.
I am a bully? All because I pointedly and directly critique IFB preachers? Really? Sigh. (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh.”) These preachers are public figures. As long as preachers drag their beliefs into the public square, they are fair game, especially when they are materially harming people.
Find something better to do with your time.
LOL. Watch porn? 🙂
You said “As part of my responsibilities as a critic of Evangelical Christianity, I read Christian blogs and news sites and listen to sermon and music videos. Hey, someone has to do it! Better me than you, right?”
I have been blogging for fifteen years. My goal has always been the same: to tell my story, to help people who have doubts and questions about Christianity, and help people who have left Christianity. Thus, I continue to read Evangelical websites and blogs and listen to Evangelical sermons and podcasts because it is important for me to know what is going on in that corner of the Christian world. I want to be well informed. Too bad Rhonda didn’t take that approach with my writing (or atheism).
Why do you choose to be a critic of Evangelical Christianity? You said someone has to do it……NO….no one has to do it, they just choose to.
I have to do it because I see it as my calling. The Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement has cult-like tendencies. I have experienced firsthand, as have my wife and children, the psychological (and at times physical) harm caused by IFB beliefs and practices. The IFB church movement is not a benign sect.
Rhonda must have missed the Black Collar Crime series; a series where I document the criminal acts of Evangelical and IFB clerics. The series has reached almost 1,000 entries. Since these crimes are not being talked about, for the most part, within Evangelicalism, I feel it is my duty to write about them here.
I assume Rhonda believes in freedom of speech. Or is freedom of speech a one-way street; a street where preachers have the freedom to say whatever they want, but atheists are expected to shut the hell up and mind their own business?
Let me make a promise to the butt-hurt Rhondas of the world. I intend to keep writing and speaking as long as I am physically able and people still want to read my writing. By all means, pray to God to shut me up or kill me. Thousands of Christians have already done so. Yet, here I am, which leads me to think that God either approves of my work or he is not listening to Evangelical prayers or he doesn’t exist. My money is on the latter.
I believe it is all part of Satan’s work.
God doesn’t exist, and neither does Satan. Rhonda is free to believe what she wants, but she can provide no evidence for me being a tool of Satan. I, alone, am to blame for what is written here.
If you don’t like it just move on and don’t say nothing.
LOL! Why didn’t Rhonda just read my post, move on, and say nothing?
Why are you trying to get people to think CT Townsend and other preachers are bad?
I think IFB churches and preachers cause harm to other people. I don’t think they are “bad” in the sense of being “evil.” Townsend is a product of Fundamentalist indoctrination and social conditioning, as are his wife and their children. I understand why Townsend is the way he is because I walked a similar path. Unlike Townsend, I know and understand that I harmed my family and the people I pastored. IFB preaching is not benign, and neither are behaviors based on a literal interpretation of the King James Bible. I have seen firsthand the harm these things cause, and over the years I have received countless emails that reinforce my educated opinion of the IFB church movement.
I would not want to be someone that talks about Christians in this way and then when they stand before God (and everyone will), they will realize how wrong they were but it will be to late because if a person denies God….He will deny them in the end.
Ah, here comes the threat. There’s always a threat of judgment and Hell. I am an atheist, so such threats have no effect on me — zero, nada, zip. No God. No Devil. No Heaven. No Hell. No afterlife. The only God I fear is my wife. 🙂
Besides, I am still a Christian! 🙂 Surely, Rhonda believes in once-saved-always-saved. I was saved as a fifteen-year-old at Trinity Baptist Church in Findlay, Ohio. Is Rhonda saying that salvation is NOT by grace through faith, that it is by right beliefs instead? Egads! Is she preaching works salvation? 🙂
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Over the weekend, Adam Stockford, the mayor of Hillsdale Michigan, posted to his personal Facebook account and his official campaign account the post I had written about him last month. Titled MAGA Mayor Adam Stockford Says Hillsdale, Michigan is a “Traditional Values” Community, I wrote about Stockford’s use of the phrase “traditional values.” As expected, Stockford re-posting my article led to his acolytes coming after me personally. I detailed their “love” yesterday in a post titled Did You Know I am a Traitor, Communist, Marxist, a Danger to America, and an Awful Writer Too? One Hillsdale man named Ronald Cook has made it his personal mission to attack me, both publicly and privately. Cook spent twenty years in the military, achieving the rank of sergeant. After retiring, he spent the next twenty years working as a corrections officer. As you will see in a moment, Cook is a bully, making me wonder how much his forty years in authoritarian jobs helped to shape him into the hateful man he is today.
What follows is a Facebook Messenger “discussion I had with Cook over the past three days. As you will see, Cook’s hostility toward me escalated quickly, so much so that I reported him to Facebook. Some of you have been after me to take threats of violence more seriously, so I heeded your advice and acted accordingly. I have not yet heard back from Facebook.
This first comment is what Cook said on Stockford’s personal Facebook page.
Cook says that I should do the world a favor by standing in front of a speeding train and killing myself. He also says that I am a child molester. I don’t understand people like Cook. I didn’t insult him or say anything inflammatory, yet Cook went after me like a terrorist in Afghanistan or an inmate who dared to talk back to him. Cook is certainly not the first, nor will he be the last to threaten me with violence. What concerns me is that Cook only lives 30-45 minutes from my home. He definitely has anger issues and violent tendencies, so I don’t want to provoke him further.
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
Thank you for your speedy reply. Not expected but grateful. A wise man once said; “…electricity is real, but you can’t see it.” This is what you are saying I guess. Albert Einstein stated “I believe in Spinoza’s God “. He did not believe in a personal God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings, a view which he described as naive. He clarified however that, “I am not an atheist”, preferring to call himself an agnostic, or a “religious nonbeliever.”
I replied:
No, what I am saying is this: there is no evidence for the existence of a God, especially the Christian deity. Is it possible that someday a deity of some sort might make itself known to us? Sure. Unlikely, but possible. So that’s why I am an agnostic atheist. Practically speaking, I live my day-to-day life as an atheist. The only time I think about God at all is when writing for this site or doing an interview for other sites or news organizations. Life is too short to spend much time thinking about mythical beings.
Langley then sent me a lengthy response, to which I shall reply below. :
Well then we are both at a conundrum about our communication. You say one thing I say another. That’s fine left as it is you would agree.
All I did is explain my beliefs. What should I have said, instead? In the world I live in, disagreements are common, frequent, and encouraged. Is that not the case for Pastor Langley?
After lengthy reading most of your site, (10 minutes you calculated me).
Based on the server logs, Langley read less than 30 of the 4,588 published posts on this site. This means Langley read .00654307 percent of my posts — definitely not “most of your site.” Nor do the logs suggest he spent a lot of time reading my writing. Granted, he could have multiple IP addresses, but even then, it would take weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks to read “most” of my posts. I will leave it to Langley to explain his words. Perhaps he is “evangelistically speaking” — a method used by preachers to exaggerate church attendance, offerings, salvation decisions numbers.
You are a very prolific writer as seen on your web site. Maybe this web crawler will show a different time that I spent reading.
Yes, I am a prolific writer, much like I was a prolific preacher back in my preaching days (4,000 sermons). This blog is my job. I spend a significant amount of time each week reading Evangelical blogs, websites, and social media accounts. Since this site focuses on three things: my journey from Evangelicalism-to-atheism, critiquing Evangelicalism, and exposing criminal behavior by Evangelical preachers through the Black Collar Crime series, it is important for me to do my homework before writing a post.
I have been blogging for fifteen years. All told, I have written millions of words. I am a writer. This is what I do. The issues I write about matter to me, as they do the thousands of people who read my work. I make no apology for being “prolific.” Because I AM prolific, I am going to call out Evangelicals who say they have read most or all of my writing.
You certainly tore into my small paragraph, taking several paragraphs to break down every statement.
Okay? I am going to do the same with Langley’s latest email to me. What? Doesn’t he want me to respond? Maybe not. Rarely does a week go by when I don’t publicly respond to Evangelicals who email me or message me on social media. Again, doing so is my job. As far as “tearing” into Langley, he really should read more of my writing. I definitely didn’t give him the full “Bruce Gerencser Treatment®.” 🙂
From your side of the fence you did a great job too. You are not the only person that I have come in contact with as I am 68 years old. I have been preaching/pastoring for 35 years.
I assume there are a few words missing in the “you are not the only person that I have come in contact with” sentence. I assume he means “atheist” or “Evangelical-turned-atheist.”
I cannot say that I will continue in our correspondence. Couple reasons. If I were to be out Soul Winning and ran into to you there would be no argument, attack, preaching, etc. as you have stated many have come after you on the web site. Thus you set some rules and guidelines.
By the way our childhood’s are not so far apart. We all have a past. We don’t choose our parents they say. The other reason is that you would do the same thing as we are doing through this communication, and I would respect you and move on. There would be no attack, no preaching, no disrespect at all. So do not look for much more than you have been given. You obviously do not want to take up all your precious time with this type exchange.
I am more than happy to continue interacting with Langley, as I am every person who contacts me. As far as this site having contact and commenting guidelines, I have these things in place because of the nasty, hateful emails, comments, and messages I receive from Evangelicals — especially Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB). Preachers, by the way, are the worst. They alone would be reason enough for me to reject Christianity,
It is just so odd to me when people say that they can know there is no God! Really.
Here’s the thing, I never said this. I made it clear to Langley that I am an agnostic atheist (as most atheists are).
Now, if the question is whether I believe the Bible God exists, I can confidently say “no.” I cannot, however, say with certainty that no deity of any sort exists. Doubtful? Yes. Probable? No. And that’s why I live my day-to-day life as an atheist (as does my wife). God is not part of my life in any way outside of my writing and speaking engagements.
That’s like taking a gamble on your life and everyone you win over to this thinking. I am sure you hae heard it all before; “What if you are wrong?” and the other one goes like; “To live the Christian life is not a bad way to live.”
Sigh. (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh”.)Here comes Pascal’s Wager, a terrible apologetic if there ever was one. Besides, Langley, doesn’t practice what he preaches. If he did, he would also be a Muslim, Jew, Mormon, and Hindu. Langley never asks himself, “what if I am wrong”? If he did, he would cover all his bases. Instead, he presupposes Christianity to be true.
As far as the “Christian life” not being a bad way to live, I couldn’t disagree more. As an atheist and a humanist, I am free to love, respect, and befriend everyone — I mean REALLY love and respect them — including LGBTQ people. Evangelicals are known for what? “Othering” people; neatly putting people into two categories: saved-lost, saint-sinner, Heaven-Hell, in-out. I prefer a world where freedom and choice are paramount; where the humanistic ideal reigns supreme.
As an unwashed, uncircumcised Philistine, my life is better in every way post-Jesus. Why in the world would I ever want to return to the garlic and leeks of Egypt? Since there is no Hell (or Heaven) I can’t think of one good reason to get up on Sunday and go to church. Besides, I already go to church, three services of the week: Church of the NFL.
So far I have seen the Bible proven wrong. In fact there seems to be many Historians that has proven much of it. Along with many great Scientists, whether they were believers or not there is proof from both sides in that field.
I will make Langley the same offer I have made to other people who tell me “the Bible has never been proven wrong.” The inerrancy and infallibility of the Protestant Christian Bible cannot be rationally, historically, or scientifically sustained. Langley has spent most of his sixty-eight years of life in the Evangelical bubble. His understanding of the Bible has been shaped and molded within the safe confines of the bubble. (Please see The Danger of Being in a Box and Why it Makes Sense When You Are In It and What I Found When I Left the Box.)
If Langley happens to read this post, I would like to offer him a free copy of one of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the history and nature of the Bible. Ehrman is a New Testament scholar at the University of North Carolina. I will gladly buy the book for Langley and have it shipped to his home in Oklahoma. I have made this offer numerous times over the years. Not one Evangelical preacher has accepted my offer. Some Evangelicals have read Ehrman’s books after I recommended them. Some of them later deconverted. (Jim Elliff says, Avoid Bart Ehrman, He Could Cause You To Lose Your Faith!)
So with that said I will wait for your response and not sure if it will warrant mine. You have said in this second answer already something that makes me believe that you do not know for sure about something.
Quote: “Is it possible that some day a deity of some sort might make itself known to us? Sure. Unlikely, but possible.”
I lack certainty on most things in life. I have confidence based on knowledge, probabilities, and lived experiences, but “certainty”? That is the realm of Evangelicals who are certain about all sorts of things, even though knowledge, probabilities, and lived experiences suggest they shouldn’t be.
As far as God and the central claims of Christianity are concerned, I am confident that my beliefs are correct. Langley hasn’t said anything that would cause me to change my mind or doubt my present beliefs. I have interacted with thousands of Evangelicals over the years. It’s been years since I have heard a novel argument, proving that Solomon was right when he said “there’s nothing new under the sun.”
You will have to read your email to me to understand. Of course you were correcting me so it may appear that you do not want to learn from anyone but Teach what you either believe, feel, or just aren’t sure of so you reject it.
I am always open to learning new things. However, Christianity is founded on the Bible. I spent thousands and thousands of hours reading and studying the Bible. It’s not a magical book, as Evangelicals claim, providing new information every time you read it. I have done my homework. Do I know “everything”? Of course not. But, I am confident that I understand the Bible, complete with its errors and contradictions. Langley is free to enlighten me, but I suspect, as readers shall see below, that he has no new light to offer.
Moral lives do not make an Eternity difference they just make a Moral life. When life ends then the question and subject you and have had will be up to you, but BEFORE DEATH you cannot do anything AFTER DEATH, which you are stating yourself. I say there are two, Hell or Heaven. To go to Hell do nothing. To go to Heaven one must Trust in the Lord Jesus Christ by Confessing our Sin asking God to Forgive us and believing that Jesus alone saved us by His death on the cross, his shed blood.
Ah, here comes the sermon, the soulwinning appeal. Does Langley think I have never heard these things before? Or did he feel led by the Holy Spirit to say them? Or, perhaps his words are for the lurkers and doubters who read my writing?
Besides, Langley is a Baptist. Once saved, always saved, right? If that’s the case, I am still a born-again Christian, and when I die, I will go to Heaven. Or, will Langley say I never was a “real Christian”? I will have to wait to see how he responds.
I certainly understand all of what you said about Christian, Church People Hurt the worst in those 35 years. Been there too sir.
Langley actually knows very little about my life. His comment reveals that he has read very little of my autobiographical material. Had he done his homework, he would have learned that “hurt” played almost no part in my deconversion. I have chosen not a be Christian because I weighed the central claims of Christianity in the balance and found them wanting. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.)
I just have to say “forgive me” Jesus suffered more than anyone at the hands of the human race and he was a human at the time, proven by Historians you well know, He was real just you and I have two points of view on these things it seems.
Yes, Jesus was real, but he was also, according to the Bible, God. We have no idea what he actually felt or experienced. After all, God was able to impregnate a Jewish teenager, so it is possible that Jesus’s death was for show. Regardless, Jesus suffered for all of six or so hours. He most certainly did not “suffer more than anyone.” I have battled chronic illness and unrelenting pain for years. I know suffering. I would gladly trade Jesus’s suffering for mine if it meant I would not suffer afterward. I know scores of people who would do the same.
All Langley and I can say is that Jesus was a Jewish man who lived, died, and is buried in an unknown grave somewhere in Palestine. Just because the Bible says something doesn’t mean it is true. The extant evidence suggests that Jesus was some sort of itinerate preacher who attracted, at most, a couple of hundred followers before he died. There’s no evidence, outside of the Bible, for the resurrection of Jesus or the miracles attributed to him. You would think Jesus would have made the front page of the Jerusalem Press a time or two, but he didn’t. Surely first-century historians would have been raving about his mighty works, yet they said almost nothing. Maybe, just maybe, the claims Christians make for Jesus are false.
Thank you again for the communication.
David Langley
Sinner saved by Grace of God
Unworthy but Grace was given
And as you have stated, trying to live a moral life, love family, love wife of 49 years
Praying that your health improves.
I will skip responding to Langley’s benediction. I do want to address his last sentence: “praying that your health improves.” Had Langley read my autobiographical material, he would have known that my health will not be improving; that I am slowly dying; that I have three kinds of days: less bad, bad, and really, really, really bad. I am sure Langley meant well, but offering up empty platitudes to people with incurable diseases is not helpful. Even more so when they are unbelievers.
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
Two words: please don’t.
A Sinner Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.
It is not uncommon for first-time readers to start reading something I have written or start listening to one of the interviews I have given over the years and conclude that I am either a Christian or a man of “wisdom.” Alas, by the time they get to the end of the article/video/podcast, they find out that I am an atheist. Out goes the “value” and “wisdom” of my words. What possibly could an Evangelical-preacher-turned-atheist say about God/Jesus/the Bible/Christianity that is wise or valuable, right? Instead of focusing on the message, people such as Langley focus on the messenger. Instead of wrestling with the question: is what Bruce says true? all they see is my atheism (or liberalism, socialism, humanism, pacifism). Because I am not part of their in-group, my words have little to no value.
that God is Real and You may give a second thought to what you seem to be “preaching” (yourself).
I am an atheist, so I reject Langley’s claim that “God is real” out of hand. If Langley would like to discuss his claim with me, I’m game. I should warn him that I have talked with hundreds of Evangelicals about their God claims. I have yet to hear an argument that was persuasive; that would cause me to return to Christianity. Maybe Langley’s arguments would be different, but I doubt it.
Langley thinks I should give a second thought to what I am preaching. What am I preaching, you ask? Self. I am ready, now, to sigh. (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh”.) Here’s the title of this blog: The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser: One Man’s Journey From Eternity to Here. The central focus of my writing is my journey from Evangelicalism to atheism. This blog is, by design, a first-person account of my life. How could it be otherwise?
Evidently, I am not supposed to talk about myself; my life; my personal experiences. Yet, I suspect that Langley uses first-person stories in his sermons. Has he ever shared his testimony with someone? Does his church have a testimony time for church members to share what God has done for them?
I simply do not understand why Langley objects to me telling my story. If I wrote an autobiography, would he be okay with that? This blog is no different.
Humanism does look like we only care about humans. So whatever we say or do cannot be wrong.
Langley reveals that he doesn’t know much about humanism. While humanism is certainly human-centric, humanists care about all sorts of things. I wonder if Langley has ever had an actual in-depth conversation with a humanist? I suspect not. (Please see Are You a Humanist?)
Langley clumsily says that humanists don’t have a moral/ethical foundation for their lives; that without God, we live immoral lives where we do no wrong. This, of course, is patently untrue. I would be more than happy to have a moral dick measuring contest with Langley, if he is interested. I think he will find I live a moral and ethical life — all without God and the Bible.
Sir I do not want to offend you I am just wanting you to know this may not be the right path.
Langley never mentions why he thinks I am on the wrong path. Is it because I am an atheist or a humanist? Is it because I have no need for God/Christianity/the Bible? Perhaps Langley can clarify why he thinks I am on the wrong path. I think I know, but I don’t want to put words in his mouth.
I too have had many around me fail, go off the other way, then I realized we are HUMAN and FRAIL.
I assume “go off the other way” means leaving Christianity. Langley attributes deconversion to human frailty. While I cannot speak for other former Christians, I can say, for myself, that human frailty had nothing to do with my deconversion. In fact, my leaving Christianity required great strength. It would have been far easier for me to remain a Christian. It is not hard to be a Christian, part of a majority culture that believes in Jesus. Langley might want to walk in an atheist’s shoes before making such generalizations.
Further, I don’t consider my deconversion a “failure.” I assume Langley values intellectualism and rational thought. Maybe not. I am an atheist today because Christianity no longer made any sense to me. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) I weighed the central claims of Christianity in the balance and found them wanting. Langley did read three of my autobiographical posts, spending all of ten minutes doing so. Perhaps he will return to the WHY? page and actually do his homework, gaining a better understanding of my life and my deconversion from Christianity.
Do I hold HUMANS accountable, no but I do hold myself accountable.
Okay? As regular readers know, I am a big proponent of personal responsibility and accountability. Does Langley think I am blaming others for my loss of faith? I don’t know. Quite frankly, I found his email to be cryptic, and hard to understand. To the degree that certain people played a part in my deconversion, I hold them accountable. That’s how life works. That said, no one made me deconvert. I suffered a lot of trauma in my life, mostly at the hands of Bible-believing, filled-with-the-Holy-Ghost Christians. While I most certainly hold them accountable for what they did, they are not the reason I walked away from Christianity.
Please notice that I have not mentioned anything here that should offend,
Well, that’s up to me to decide, not Langley.
but with this message I am hoping that it will stir something up all those years you either preached without authority or you have left the authority that called you. thank you for allowing text messages here. have a great day.
Speaking of offense, Langley hopes that his email causes some sort of “stirring” in my life. I find his use of the word “authority” to be odd, but I suspect he means that I preached without being authorized by Christ (unsaved) or I left the authority (Christ) that called me. This, of course, is the conundrum for people such as Langley. Was Bruce Gerencser an unsaved preacher or is he a saved, but backslidden preacher? (I assume Langley believes in once-saved-always-saved, eternal security; that once a person is saved, he cannot fall from grace. Thus, I am either unsaved or backslidden.)
Langley said nothing in his email that would cause me to rethink my decision to divorce Jesus. I am not sure what he hoped to accomplish, but I thank him for emailing me.
A Sinner Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 67, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 46 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
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