According to an email I received several years ago, my present life is NOT how I present it within the pages of this blog. A Christian man by the name Nathan Smith says I am lying when I say I am happy. He also says my life is absent of compassion, freedom, and happiness, despite me saying differently. Smith challenges my manhood, saying that if I truly was a brave man I would ask a cognitive behaviorist to render their opinion on my written work. You mean the secular psychologist I see every week, the woman who reads my writing and encourages me to keep telling my story?
Smith writes:
Reading your blog doesn’t give any impression that the humanistic life is full of the kind of compassion, freedom, and happiness you say it is. If Christians serve something man-made, then they are simply doing what comes naturally to them as humans; something any true humanist would be able to understand with a lot more compassion than you seem able to demonstrate. If you were free, you would not feel compelled to continue in your devotion to Christ and His Church; albeit in hostility. Moreover, if you were happy, you would not view everything through the lens of this hostility. If humanism were true of Bruce Gerenscer [sic], the battle would have ended when he left the Church, yet here he is still playing the part with fervor.
You will be glad to hear that your new life’s work is questionable without even invoking God or scripture. If you are brave enough, let a cognitive behaviorist evaluate this blog and compare it with your stated reasons for writing it; that way you can hear from the kind of secular, educated, scientific individual you now esteem that you are completely full of it.
I will leave it to you the reader to decide if Smith’s observations ring true.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Trigger Warning for Evangelicals. This post contains sarcasm, sacrilegious humor, and 🙂 emojis. Do not proceed if these things will irritate your spiritual hemorrhoids. 🙂 You have been warned!
Just looking some things up on my phone this morning and came across this page, after you wrote an article on Kenny Bishop.
The article Lori is talking about is Southern Gospel Singer Kenny Bishop is Now a Gay United Church of Christ Pastor. Bishop, a former member (and lead singer) of a famous family Southern Gospel group called The Bishops, left Evangelicalism, married a man, and is the pastor of a United Church of Christ congregation in Kentucky. Kenny’s departure from Evangelicalism — the one truth faith — and his embracing of the “gay lifestyle” outrages many Christians. How can these things be? I get similar responses from former ministerial colleagues and church members. How is it possible that Pastor Gerencser is now an atheist and a liberal/progressive/socialist/pacifist? Such dramatic departures from the Evangelical norm do not compute for most Evangelicals.
I suspect that this is a bridge too far for most Evangelicals. 🙂
Not wondering exactly why I feel compelled to reach out to you, but I am a Christian.
Lori contacted me because she “felt” she needed to; that it was her duty to put in a word for Jesus. Lori ignored that I ask Evangelicals to NOT send me emails such as hers, and wrote me anyway.
If you are an Evangelical Christian, please read Dear Evangelical before sending me an email. If you have a pathological need to evangelize, spread the love of Jesus, or put a good word in for the man, the myth, the legend named Jesus, please don’t. The same goes for telling me your church/pastor/Jesus is awesome. I am also not interested in reading sermonettes, testimonials, Bible verses, or your deconstruction/ psychological evaluation of my life. By all means, if you feel the need to set me straight, start your own blog.
Why is it so hard for Evangelicals to respect my wishes? After fifteen years and thousands of unwanted emails and comments from Evangelicals, I have concluded that what I want doesn’t matter to most followers of Jesus.
I’m not here to condemn you, but something you said caught my attention.
Lori says she’s not condemning me in her email, but that is actually what she does. She refuses to accept my story at face value, choosing to deconstruct my life based on her personal opinions and peculiar interpretations of the Protestant Christian Bible. I hope she will think about why this might be offensive to me, or how she might feel if I did the same to her.
You mentioned you don’t follow southern gospel music but you stated something inside you has always stirred you in your heart. My friend that’s Jesus still reaching out to you.
Lori wrongly assumes that the emotional feelings I have when listening to certain Southern Gospel songs are a “sign” that Jesus is trying to reach out to me. Come on Jesus, text me or shoot me an email! 🙂 Lost on Lori seems to be the psychological and sociological reasons such music might appeal to me. After all, I regularly listened to Southern Gospel, quartet-style music for almost fifty years. This music made a deep, lasting imprint on my life. The same can be said of songs by the Carpenters. Is it safe for me, then, to conclude that Karen Carpenter is calling out to me from beyond the grave? Silly, right?
I’m not sure what exactly turned you away from Jesus whether life or maybe some hypocrites along the way. All I know is until you take your last breath, Jesus is waiting.
And herein lies the problem, Lori made no attempt to find out who I am. She didn’t read any of my autobiographical material. (Please see Why? and the About page) Instead, she quickly read two posts and then emailed me. Had Lori bothered to do her homework, all of her questions about me would have been answered. And, I am quite accessible. If she genuinely had questions about my story, I would have gladly answered them, as I have done countless times before for other Evangelicals.
The Bible says in Proverbs 18: 13: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. Ouch. 🙂 I hope Lori will think about her email to me and ponder what her God says in the aforementioned Bible verse. I didn’t say it, “God did.” 🙂
I don’t believe your an atheist because of certain comments in your writings, but maybe just lost your way.
While Lori seems polite, I do wonder if she thinks it is genteel, sociable, well-mannered, thoughtful, considerate, and respectful (Carolyn, my editor, told me to choose one word for this sentence. I decided I liked all of her suggestions.) to email complete strangers and call them liars. And that’s exactly what Lori is doing when she says I am not an atheist. Lori says she is a Christian. I accept her self-identification at face value. Why can she not do the same for me? Why is it so hard for Evangelicals to accept that I once was a Christian and now I am not; that I once was a born-again follower of Jesus and now I am an atheist; that I once had foreskin on my johnson and now I don’t? 🙂
I was in the Christian church for fifty years. I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years. I pastored churches in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan, spending thousands of hours reading and studying the Bible, and preaching 4,000+ sermons. I know the Bible inside and out. I haven’t lost my way, as if I am a puppy who got out of his pen, ran out the door, and wandered away. With full knowledge and eyes wide open, I reject out of hand the central claims of Christianity. (Please see The Michael Mock Rule: It Just Doesn’t Make Sense.) God is a myth and Jesus is dead — end of discussion.
I realize that the biggest surprise at judgment day is the so-called Christian who judges others or does not have love for each other. They think they are going to step inside the gate with no problem as if better than Jesus himself. That will not be the case when he tells them depart from me I never knew you. Jesus is so misinterpreted by many who say they are Christians and are the farthest thing from it.
Lori seems to think that I’m no longer a Christian because of how Christians treated me; that I have been hurt by people. This simply is not true. Now, it is true that I have had countless vicious, hateful, nasty, vile Christians attack me since I left Christianity, but that was not the case while I was a Christian and a pastor. I was generally loved and respected. What should I make of all of this? I have concluded that Evangelicals have a hard time accepting people different from them. Their religion is built on a foundation of othering — us vs. them. Isn’t that exactly what Lori is doing in her email? She sees me as an “other,” someone who needs to be reclaimed for Jesus and restored to good standing with God and the Evangelical church.
I’m a Christian and yet I don’t agree with someone’s choices, my job is to pray for them and not judge them.
Lori says she doesn’t “judge” people, but that’s exactly what she did in her email. I am happy and at peace sans Jesus. Why not just accept that someone can be an atheist and live a fulfilled life? If I am happy with my life, isn’t that enough?
Just wanted to share with you this morning. I hope before your life is over you are able to find your way back to him.
I am sure readers noticed the subtle threats of Hell in Lori’s email She hopes and prays I repent and return to Jesus before I die. Why? Well, we know what will happen to me if I don’t: eternal torment and punishment in the Lake of Fire. No, Lori did not use the word Hell in her email, but it is implied in several statements she made about death.
I am, in fact, dying. Thanks to gastroparesis, fibromyalgia, degenerative spine disease, and a plethora of other serious health problems, I know my time on earth is short. Hopefully not soon, but I can feel the chilly hand of death on my neck. I intimately “feel” my mortality, yet I have no regrets over choosing to divorce Jesus. My life has been better in every way post-Jesus. I know that the Loris of the world cannot fathom a good life without God/Jesus/church/Bible, yet here I am, a shining advertisement for life’s possibilities after deconversion. Yes, I am in constant pain. Yes, life is hard and I literally and painfully struggle just to get out of bed in the morning. Yes, my life is littered with problems and trials. Yes, I am a weak, frail, contradictory man. Sometimes, I am a royal pain in the ass. Despite all these things, I wouldn’t trade my present life in the Promised Land for all the leeks and garlic in Egypt (Christianity). I am confident that when it comes time for me to die, I will be surrounded by the life of my life, six wonderful children and their spouses, and thirteen awesome grandchildren, and the last words from my lips will be, where’s the damn remote? 🙂
My advice is to go with your gut.
No, I plan to go with my mind. My “gut” can’t make up its mind. Diarrhea, constipation, nausea, vomiting, excruciating pain — sometimes all in one day. Last weekend, I had violent diarrhea, and before I could even finish my business I found myself face first in the toilet vomiting. At least I was able to flush before throwing up. 🙂 Small blessings from Loki, yes? I am sure Lori sees Jesus in this too. 🙂 Praise God, Jesus kept you from getting shit on your face! Come back to him today!
The spirit you feel when you listen to southern gospel music is Jesus reaching out.
No, it’s not. Lori provides no evidence for her claim, she just knows it’s true. All Lori needs to do is provide empirical evidence for her claim. Not a gut feeling, but actual testable evidence. Surely Lori and God can get together and provide this evidence for me. I’ll be waiting . . .
I read that you were having some health problems. Again I pray you go back to your roots and no matter what we’ve done Jesus’ forgiveness is waiting.
Lori suggests that my health problems are the result of my deconversion; that if I returned to Evangelical Christianity, my health would improve. Here’s the problem with Lori’s ill-informed “logic.” My health problems started DECADES before I deconverted. I first saw a doctor for my back in 1977, thirty years before I left Christianity. I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia in 1997, a decade before I deconverted. Every one of my health problems except gastroparesis — an incurable stomach disease — predates my loss of faith. None of this, of course, will matter to Lori. She’s read two of my posts, sized me up, and rendered judgment.
His life is not just a story, but he lost his life to save ours. Again not here to judge you but felt compelled to reach out.
Lori keeps telling me that she’s not here to “judge” me, but her email suggests otherwise. Lori is likely convinced that telling me the “truth” is not judging. She’s just repeating what she thinks her version of God has said. Here’s the thing: I already know what God allegedly said. I am confident that I know the Bible far better than Lori. There’s nothing I need to know that I don’t know already. I realize this sounds arrogant, but I haven’t heard an original thought from an Evangelical in fifteen years. I have weighed Christianity in the balance and found it wanting.
Unlike Lori, I didn’t feel “compelled” to respond to her email. I am writing this post because I want to; I hope my response will be helpful to readers lurking in the shadows; I hope doubting Christians or readers who have left Christianity will find my response encouraging.
Saved by Reason,
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I spent decades in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement, from the early 1960s until the late 1990s. I attended Midwestern Baptist College, an IFB institution, in the 1970s. I continue to follow the IFB movement closely, reading scores of blogs and websites, and listening to far too many Fundamentalist sermons and podcasts. All that hellfire and brimstone preaching, and I am still not saved. 🙂 My wife’s family is IFB through and through. Polly’s dad was an IFB pastor, as was her uncle Jim Dennis. (Please see The Family Patriarch is Dead: My Life With James Dennis.) Several family members are pastors, missionaries, and evangelists. We have great-nephews and grand-nieces who are currently attending or plan to attend unaccredited IFB colleges. Last Sunday, we listened to a podcast where one of our grand-nieces was sharing her plans for after high school. She plans to attend an IFB college so she can become a school teacher. How sad, both Polly and I said. ________ is a wonderful girl. She’s going to spend the next four years getting a worthless education, one that’s only good if she teaches at an IFB school. Numerous young relatives have received similar training, convinced by their parents that this is what “God” wants them to do. I have said all of this to say that I continue to have my finger on the pulse of IFB church movement.
I have written countless articles about the IFB church movement since I started blogging in 2007. I am well-known in some corners of IFB world. As a result, I have received a lot of emails and comments from offended, outraged, angry, nasty, vile, vicious, hateful IFB zealots. From death threats to attacks on my character to threats of judgment and Hell, IFB zealots have tried to marginalize me and my story — unsuccessfully, I might add.
I have found that IFB zealots are experts in passive-aggressive behavior. Yesterday, I received an email from a woman from Alabama named Donna.
Here’s what he had to say:
Hi Bruce!
Hope this warms your heart, I am NOT praying for you.
I will not be concerned if I don’t hear from you for a while, or at all.
Matter of fact, I wouldn’t read your response if you did so don’t waste your time.
Enjoy your life while you can.
Best to you and your wife.
Now that’s one passive-aggressive email.
I replied:
Donna,
I have no idea who you are. Your email is quite passive-aggressive. Was that your intent?
I see you came to my site looking for information on Pastor Mark Falls from the Newark Baptist Temple in Heath, Ohio. If you didn’t like something I said about Falls, you could have commented on the relevant post. Instead, you took the typical approach most Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB) take with me: nasty, spiteful, passive-aggressive, complete with a subtle threat of judgment and Hell.
Please square the content of your email with the teachings of the Bible, especially the verses that tell you how to treat your enemies.
Be well.
Bruce Gerencser
I have no idea who this person is. Mark Falls is an Alabama native and pastored in the state, so Donna could be a relative or a former church member. Falls currently pastors the Newark Baptist Temple in Heath, Ohio, a church previously pastored by Polly’s uncle, Jim Dennis, for over forty years. Polly’s mom attends Newark Baptist. She’s been a member of the church for forty+ years.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Joe, the Evangelical, continues to email me. The count is now up to twenty-five comments and twenty emails. Today, Joe emailed me at 12:19 pm, 12:29 pm, 12:46 pm, 1:34 pm, 1:54 pm, 4:06 pm, 6:17 pm, and 8:08 pm. Joe even went over to ex-christian.net and said:
I don’t know but thought I would drop in to say I am still investigating every angle of deconversion. An older ex-Christian named Bruce in Ohio just threw me off his board and told me to f&$#$k off! I remembered that the Moderator here has much thicker skin, and is far more respectful to people. The man in Ohio immediately took offense when I quoted 1 John 2:19. But I wasn’t the one stating what it says in the verse— John the Apostle was!
I have not responded to any of Joe’s emails today, and I don’t plan to do so. I do plan to address some of what he said later in this post.
Here’s what Joe — a man who thinks he is Jesus — had to say:
Email One
I should have known you would do this. You opened up a door for me to respond to you. I tried to be civil in my response to you. I even explained I never said you were going to hell. But you insist on painting me in the worst way possible, and still insist you have the right to tell another person to f$#$k off at your leisure. You have only reinforced by your posts the fact that reconverts are very, very angry people with malicious attitudes. I will also share your blog with others to show them how a deconverted man reacts to discussions about God. How his hate is the dominant force in his life. You lost your soul for sure when you turned from Jesus—you no longer have a heart. Hate consumes you and is hunting you down now. Praise God he has saved me and continued to keep me. I pray I never wind up like you.
Email Two
This will absolutely be my last email to you Bruce. One day this will be reviewed as everything else will be before the Judgment seat of Christ. You will realize on that day that MANY people have tried to persuade you to repent from your decision to deconvert. You will realize then how you have treated those same people. I don’t care what you say Bruce— I genuinely continued to post on your site not to snidely judge people but to hopefully warn them and cause them to turn. But you are too hateful to accept that. I think there are other “lurkers” on your site that will be amazed to see the amount of hate you have towards Jesus Christ. In trying to “reveal” me on your site you have truly revealed yourself. I hope they see that and turn back to Jesus, seeing what they will turn into if they continue to reject Jesus. You may have committed the sin in 1 John 5:16 and I pray others will read your posts and beware. I know your response to all of this: f&$&$k off! Unfortunately those are the main words in your vocabulary now. Hopefully I’ve made your board more interesting. I note the SEQUELS keep coming Bruce. Otherwise the board is quite predictable and boring. Narcissists normally do have quite boring boards. Yours is no exception.
Email Three
By the way, you continue to shoot yourself in the foot Bruce. It’s your blog but you are centering on ME. I’m very flattered. Will there be a Part 5 and 6 also. I’ll go get my popcorn.
Email Four
It’s time to ‘fess up. You’ve been played. That’s why I’ve repeated twice now that you’re shooting yourself in the foot. I was VERY surprised the last Deconversion board that I was on I was the one who left–I wasn’t “thrown off” like you are doing. lol.
That moderator was VERY COOL and kept his composure. He knew I would continue to make the claims I was making but allowed me to continue. There were no personal attacks between he and myself, but I could tell he was very angered at my saying he was never a believer. I expected to be cussed at and removed but he never did. I had written a thread called “Israel: proof of God’s existence”. It might appear if you Google it. I’ve forgotten the name of the site.
But every other site I have visited had the same result: make a few posts, suffer harsh criticism, a few begin to cuss at you (but I never cuss back), and eventually the moderator bans you, or takes away your rights to post.
When I stumbled onto your site about Halloween and realized you were a deconvert, I said to my wife “I’ll bet I get banned within a week”. LOL. You took away my posting rights within TWO DAYS.
The majority of you are very angry people. Just read the posts on your “I hate Jesus” thread Bruce. So it doesn’t take much to get most of you all riled up. There is the occasional Michael (whom I take seriously) who is cordial and civil. But the majority are just like you Bruce. Ever heard the term “thick skin”? Deconverts do NOT have thick skin. LOL.
I email you again and again to see how much more I can rile you up. Man, you’ve dedicated 3 threads to me due to your anger.
I showed the most recent addition to the thread, PART 3 to my wife and she said “you should stop doing that. Someone is going to have a heart attack”. But I told her it was too much fun watching the reactions I was getting. I told her that “These people hate Jesus so much they spend HOURS talking about it”. And you most certainly do.
And it is pure guilt. You are afraid and I don’t blame you. You are rejecting the Lord of eternity. It displays itself in your anger and repeated reassurances to one another that Jesus is all “make-believe”. But Hebrews 10:26-31 states you are “expecting fearful judgment” It is something you cannot shake off no matter how hard you try to.
But you have all made your own choice to “trample upon the Son of God” (Hebrews 10:27) so I will continue to “play you” Bruce.
Oh– did I just ruffle your little feathers by emailing you again? Whoops! LOL. “How dare he continue to email me? I am Bruce Almighty and I asked him not to!” Ha ha ha ha
Will this email be in Part 4? Please entitle it “I continue to shoot myself in the foot” followed by 4 eggplants shaped like penises. That would be great. Ha ha.
Email Five
Google: “Deconversion Israel proves the existence of God”. Scroll down about 6 links. This is where I posted as Fish153 for quite a while. It is www.ex-christian.net. The Moderator was amazing. Very patient person. I truly admire him. He allowed me to post many different things and was confident enough in his own skin to not take it personally or ban me. I eventually left the board on my own. But I was told to f$@#k off many times by those without thick skin. I would feign surprise at their actions, but would never return the cursing.
I left the board admiring the man for allowing ALL views. I leave your board laughing. Another one shoots himself in the foot! Lol.
Email Six
Sing it with me Brittany: “Oops I did it again. I emai-eld Bruce, and now he’ll get mad, and send those egg plants…”Hey I wanted to let you know I’m drumming up readers for your blog. I was on another deconvert blog where they have allowed me to continue for some time now. I mentioned you. I didnt give your full name. I just said “A thin-skinned ex-Pastor and ex-Christian from Ohio named Bruce threw me off his board for quoting 1John 2:19 and stating he was never a Christian”. These people are used to seeing 1 John 2:19 quoted and being told they were never Christians. It goes with the territory. I also mentioned you have given me top billing on your board— even making sequels in parts 2 and 3 (so far). So I’m sure some will come to visit very soon. I think it’s always nice to get more readers for a blog. It definitely cannot hurt. All the best to you!
Email Seven
This is Joe’s wife. He doesn’t know I am sending this. Please stop encouraging him. You said “if he emails me again I will post it below”. Of course he e-mailed you. You left a door open for him. I am pleading with you to stop. Ever since Joe was very young he has been extremely frightened of Santa Claus. He was frightened to the point of psychosis.
A couple of days ago my husband dashed into the living room in tears and cried out “Santa Claus just told me to fuck off!!”
I seriously did not know what he meant until I saw your picture. “Why? Why? Why would Santa Claus tell me to fuck off?? He asked me.
All I could tell him is that maybe Santa is frustrated. Maybe he can’t fit down a chimney any more.
I know you’re not Santa, but he thinks you are. After he saw your picture his psychosis returned. He is a sick man.
And then, to top it off you send eggplant emogis. Joe is allergic to two things: Eggplant and Ohio. We have to avoid Ohio because he breaks out in hives if he goes near there.
So I have to ask you. For the sake of my husband please cease and desist. Do not “invite” him to e-mail you again or he will most definitely. I am asking politely. Thank you for listening.
Email Eight
You know, I had read almost everything on your blog except “Dear Jesus”. Deconverts always say it was nothing personal in their lives that turned them away from God. They say it was because of something they read, or due to Science, etc.
But it ALWAYS turns out to be something in their lives that caused them to turn away. When I read “Dear Jesus” I now see clearly why you are an apostate. You “served” Jesus, but “blamed” Jesus your whole life.
Your Mom, the divorce–“where were you Jesus?” I understand now Bruce. I PROMISE to never send you another email. I have badgered you with emails because I was genuinely upset that a former “Pastor” would tell me to “f” off.
There is another site that I am visiting again. They are a bit more understanding. There are some quick to curse there also, but that is to be expected.
I wasn’t aware of your sad past.. I’m truly sorry. But I have a far better understanding for your deconversion now. “Dear Jesus” is a real eye-opener to those looking for reasons for deconversion. My past is also sad but I don’t blame God for it.
Good luck with your blog. I am deleting every link to your blog, and regret barraging you with e-mails. Now that I understand your reason for turning back I regret not stopping earlier.
— end of emails —
Joe’s comments speak for themselves. I do want to address several things.
First, The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser is a blog, not a board.
Second, this is my personal blog. This blog has comment rules. Joe read these rules. He deliberately chose not to abide by these rules. He has no respect for me or the readers of this blog. I gave Joe rope to hang himself because I thought his comments (and emails) would be instructive, a reminder of the vile, ugly underbelly of Evangelical Christianity. Joe has certainly delivered.
Third, Joe has not read most of the 4,369 posts on this site. In fact, based on the server logs, Joe has read less than twenty posts.
Fourth, based on the server logs, this site has received no traffic from any of the ex-Christian sites.
If you have been reading this series of posts, it should be clear to you by now that Joe is a gaslighter, a liar, a bully, someone who isn’t used to someone standing up to him.
While Joe “apologized” in his last email, I don’t buy his apology, nor do I accept it. Joe is like an abusive husband who beats the shit out of his wife, abuses her with his words, and psychologically terrorizes her. And then, one day, he profusely apologizes to his wife, professes his love for her, promises to never, never abuse her again, and gives her $100 to buy a new dress. All is well, right? Nope. Days or weeks later, the husband abuses his wife again, a pattern of behavior that has been going on for years. Cause harm, apologize, cause harm, apologize, cause harm, apologize.
Joe tried to harm me, but failed. He tried to psychologically terrorize me, but failed. he tried to wound me, but failed. You see, contrary to what Joe says, I do have thick skin. Scores of “Joes” have come before Joe Sperling. I have been attacked and abused by God’s chosen ones over, and over, and over again. Years ago, Joe’s emails and comments would have caused harm. A decade of counseling has taught me how to deal with the Joes of the world. One way is to expose them, and that’s what I’ve done. Another way is to take their power away, the power to cause harm. And finally, putting people such as Joe in their place can be cathartic. I told Joe to “go fuck yourself,” not out of anger, but because I can. Joe can’t control what I say and that infuriates him.
Joe has repeatedly said he wouldn’t contact me again. We will see if he is a man of his word.
This is the last post in this series. Any further emails will be appended to this post.
Joe send me the following after this post was published:
Bruce– You tried to harm me and you succeeded. You tried to terrorize me and you succeeded. You tried to belittle me and you succeeded. Congratulations and goodbye.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
What you have done to the least of these my brethren you have done to me”. That verse seems to imply Bruce that who you were really telling to f%#$k off is Jesus not me, because I belong to Jesus.
Despite telling me four times that he would stop contacting me, Joe continues to send me emails:
Being human my curiosity caused me to check back on your site tonight. I was surprised you had extended the thread to a “Part 2”. I am not “outraged” at all. Just still shaking my head a little in disbelief that you told me “f$#$k you Joe” and then “f%$%k off!” That was in no way warranted. In fact, I didn’t say anything about your mental health until AFTER you had cursed me. I was using sarcasm (as I am sure many who read my email could easily surmise) when I said I was writing a chapter for a book about Abnormal Psychology. That was purely tongue in cheek.
I was just very surprised that you would find it “easy” to address someone in that way. I had even posted a message for Michael because of his civility, and his taking the time to list (4) points he wanted me to consider. The only post that had caused a truly negative response was when I spoke of slavery to point out they had no formal education due to their being in chains, but were very wise people. Sage took offense that I used slavery in my analogy. I told her she was being “touchy”. She is entitled to say whatever she wants to say though, and I need to learn to use different analogies in the future. But I never once found it within my right to tell her or anyone else for that matter to “f$#%k off”!
A blog like yours is set up to allow discussions to take place, so I was very surprised that you “silenced” me so soon. And then on top of that thought you had the right to tell me to “f%$%k off.” I disagree with people but never feel I have the right to say something like that to them. I do appreciate your allowing me to post my thoughts though. It is YOUR blog so you can run it as you see fit. I am only sending this email because you said you would allow me one more.
By the way, I never said you were on your way to hell. I said I felt intense sadness that deconverts will “miss out” and feel deep embarrassment when standing before Jesus one day. I will not take back that thought. I DO feel intense sadness when thinking of that. I know you don’t believe in a Judgment seat, but I do. One of the “laws of physics” says something to the effect of “for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction” (again, just a paraphrase if I’ve gotten the quote wrong). You believe we all just die and that’s it. You see I think the “law” I mentioned above can also apply to the spiritual realm. Did Heinrich Himmler just “die” and everything about him is now gone? Perhaps you can believe that, but I cannot. His “actions” caused untold grief to thousands and thousands of people. I believe one day, before the Great White Throne he will be asked to explain why he did what he did, and will be judged for it. I think we ALL must stand before God and explain why we did what we did.
“What you have done to the least of these my brethren you have done to me”. That verse seems to imply Bruce that who you were really telling to f%#$k off is Jesus not me, because I belong to Jesus.
I will not contact you again. All I can do is hope that any of the deconverts on the board might think twice about their decision. I know that 99% will say there is no need to re-consider. But there might be that 1%. And as that famous line Jim Carrey says in “Dumb and Dumber” “so you’re telling me I still have a chance!!??”
God bless you.
Where, oh where do I begin? As you can see, Joe is just a poor, misunderstood bloke who didn’t do anything to warrant me telling him to “go fuck himself.” His words speak for themselves. Joe tries to paint himself as a victim. He states that he was surprised I “silenced” him so soon. 🙂 Uh, Joe left twenty-five comments and sent me a dozen emails. He more than said his piece, even after I asked him repeatedly to stop contacting me.
Joe believes he is Jesus, that when I told him to “fuck off” I was really saying these words to Jesus. No, Joe, I am telling YOU, flesh and blood Joe, to “go fuck himself.” Not Jesus. Jesus is a dead man. Why would I tell him to “fuck off.” Besides, I don’t have a problem with Jesus, It’s you, Joe, and others like you I have a problem with.
Joe thinks that his words on this site might “help” a few deconverts who read my writing — maybe one percent. I think I can confidently say that Joe has helped them, reminding them of how glad they are to be free of Jesus and away from those who say they speak on his behalf.
I replied to Joe’s latest email. Here’s what I had to say:
Trigger Warning to Joe. This email contains swear words.
Joe,
You seem to think I give a shit about what you think. I don’t. You’ve told me four times you wouldn’t contact me again, yet you continue to email me. Why is that?
Stop the gaslighting, Joe. Own your behavior instead of blaming everyone else for how people responded to you. Stop lying. I never told you that you could email me one more time. Why the fuck would I do that? You know I told you that you could leave one more comment, which you did. So, don’t even suggest I said I wanted to hear from you again.
I don’t buy for a moment your claim that you were being sarcastic about the book blurb and my mental health. You intended your words to wound.
You are supposedly a grown-ass man, Joe. You can’t handle someone telling you to “fuck off” in an email? Especially since my response to your behavior was warranted. You seem to think you can say and do whatever you want without people responding to you. Not on my blog. I’ve dealt with countless Joe Sperlings over the years. I refuse to let them bully me, attack my character, or shit all over my blog. You ran into the wrong atheist, dude.
You say you are a Christian. You say you are a follower of Jesus. Yet, your behavior is anything but Christian. What did Jesus tell you about how to treat your enemies? How would Jesus have responded if someone told him to “fuck off”? WWJD?
I intend to make our email interaction public. This allows my readers a look at how Evangelicals behave, exposing the ugly underbelly of Evangelicalism. You have done a good job advancing the cause of atheism.
If you want to continue to harass me, I suggest you start a blog. It’s free, takes five minutes, then you can deconstruct my life to your heart’s content.
Bruce Gerencser
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
After I wrote Part One, Joe took to commenting on several posts on this site. You can check out his comments here, here, here, here, and here. All told, Joe left twenty-five comments before I cut him off.
I gave Joe one last opportunity to say whatever he wanted to say. After that, move on. I told him that I would approve no further comments from him. Joe tried to continue commenting, but I deleted his comments.
I stated in the comment section:
As sure as the sun comes up in the morning, give Evangelicals enough rope and they will reveal their true beliefs and character. I’ve seen it over and over and over again. Joe Sperling is the latest example of this.
As time went on and he got pushback from readers, his pronouncements became more aggressive. This is one of the reasons I typically only give Evangelicals one opportunity to comment. Joe wasn’t Revival Fires — a fucking low bar if there ever was one — so I extended to him commenting privileges. And sure as the sun comes up in the morning . . . 😂
I finally asked him to make one last comment and move on. Do you think he could do that?
Tonight, he sent me two emails. Here’s what he said:
“I’m not whining. All you had to is ask. However from now on when someone mentions Bruce G. I’ll think of a little kid sticking his fingers in his ears and running to another room to avoid hearing things he doesn’t like. lol. See ya later.“
“I’m sending from here in case the other didn’t go through. I’m not whining Bruce. All you had to do was ask. I’ll always remember you though as a little kid shoving his fingers into his ears and running away because he is hearing things he doesn’t like. lol. You are too much ha ha.”
Evidently, he thought I needed to hear this twice. I know I’m a little slow these days 😂😂
Well, you can probably figure out how I responded:
Go fuck yourself, Joe. You said your piece. I have no interest in talking with you further.
Let’s see if you can respect boundaries.
I quickly learned that Joe is a bully, someone who has no regard for personal boundaries.
What follows is a transcript of the emails he sent me and my responses:
Joe: Seriously— what makes you believe you can say something like that to someone and it’s totally OK? Is this how you normally address people you disagree with? I’m actually flabbergasted [sic]. Unbelievable.
I guess you’ll use this now with your laughing emojis. That’s cool. Be my guest. See ya.”
Bruce: No, I’ll just tell you again, Joe, fuck off 🍆🍆🍆🍆. Second request, don’t contact me again.
Joe: “Go f&$&#k yourself Joe? Really? For quoting 1John 2:19? And then you put up your own article where you allow someone to quote it once again? OK— carry on. I feel no need to curse you back. God bless you.”
Bruce: Once again, Joe, fuck off. Third request, please do not contact me.
Joe: “Can I have your permission to quote you? I’m writing a chapter for a book on abnormal psychology and your statement would fit in well. They ask to get approval first though. I probably wouldn’t include the four purple thingies, but your statement would work great as a segue into the next chapter. Let me know. And thanks!”
Bruce: “No, I’ll just tell you again, Joe, fuck off 🍆🍆🍆🍆. Fourth request, don’t contact me again.
You are officially being a passive-aggressive bully.
Thank you for proving exactly the kind of man you really are; someone who has no regard for boundaries; someone who thinks he can control how people respond to him.”
Today, I woke up to two more emails from Joe. I did not respond to them.
Joe: Bruce— you are too much. You tell me to f@#@#k off and then say it’s ME who is showing who they really are? You are the control freak not me. Whose “boundaries”? You are the one with the Blog. I won’t contact you again. But seriously Bruce, get some psychological help. If you think it is your “right” to tell people to f$#&$k off you have some SERIOUS mental problems.
Joe: I forgot to add one thing: you are shooting yourself in the foot Bruce. Anyone can clearly see YOU are being the bully not me. I will send no further emails. It’s hard NOT to respond when someone tells you to f#$&$k off. It’s called being human.
As you can see, Joe is a Jesus-loving, Bible-believing (but, not practicing) passive-aggressive bully. As Sage, a long-time reader and my friend (she encourages me to take up pole dancing as Santa, the Stripper) :), observed, Joe is skilled at gaslighting:
You are quite skilled at gaslighting. Someone takes offense to your analogy, and point out how it fails, then you respond by claiming they are the problem and they need fix their views. That is classic gaslighting – when someone questions you, attack them and try to belittle them. You even carry it over to a different post, praising one poster while belittling the other. Now Michael,is the “good” deconvert and Sage is the “Bad” deconvert.
I clearly understood the point you were making. I even gave you ways to make the same point without using slavery. But it appears you are so determined to defend yourself and your analogy that you justify any type method to dismiss Sage. I have called you out as judgemental. I haven’t attacked you personally, I’ve attacked your analogy. You respond by attacking me personally, belittling me, gaslighting me, dismissing me and hope that doing so will destroy my point, or leave me unable to argue with you
I made a good faith effort to respond to and interact with Joe. He “seemed” like a decent Christian. However, after fifteen years of responding to countless Joes, I know that decent, thoughtful Evangelicals are few and far in between. Such people are typically “nice” until they are challenged or someone says something they don’t like. Then they reveal their true character. Such was the case with Joe. His comments became more hostile, more personal. I tried, as did others, to correct his factual errors, to no avail. Joe knows what he knows, end of discussion. Joe began his interaction with me saying that I never was a Christian and I was headed for Hell, and his interaction with me ended the same way.
Joe’s upset that I told him to “go fuck himself.” Tough shit. No one is going to control what I say or the language I use. I rarely tell people to “fuck off,” but in Joe’s case, it was warranted. Occasionally, a reader will object to me using curse words. Evangelicals, in particular, seem to have their freaking 🙂 sensibilities offended when someone tells them to go fornicate with themselves. I suspect there are times that I deliberately tell Evangelicals to “fuck off” because I know doing so riles them up. I do the same with some of my letters to the editor of the local newspaper. I call it “poking the bear.” Poked Evangelicals will quickly show that they are not Holy Spirit-controlled or following in the steps of Jesus. In Joe’s case, I was genuinely angered by his personal attacks on me, his refusal to accept my story at face value, and his unwillingness to admit that he was wrong. I corrected him three times, using facts and evidence easily found on the Internet, but Joe just doubled down and refused to admit he had erred.
I’ve dealt with scores of Joes over the years. In that time, I have taken various approaches to the Joes of the world: full engagement, limited engagement, or I just ignore them. I respond to every email I receive — thousands of them over the past fifteen years. In Joe’s case, I answered numerous emails from him before saying “enough.” I was thoughtful, honest, and open until he became aggressive and started making things personal. It was then, and only then, that I told him to “go fuck himself.” Joe asking to quote me in a book (a story I don’t believe is true) was nothing more than a threat of exposure. I am a public figure, so Joe is free to write or say anything he wants about me. I am quoted in several books written by Evangelicals. None of them asked me for permission to quote me (nor did they let me know they had done so). I am a big believer in personal responsibility, so I own my words; all of them, including telling someone to “fuck off.” Have I ever said things I shouldn’t have? Yep, and in every instance, I have owned my words, apologized, and, if warranted, changed what I had written. But, apologizing for telling a passive-aggressive bully and gaslighter to “fuck off”? Not a chance . . .
Joe’s ultimate attack came when he suggested I have mental health problems. Why? Because I told him to “go fuck himself.” 🙂 🙂 🙂 Joe doesn’t care about my mental health. If he did, he would have behaved differently. Regular readers know, of course, that I have been seeing a secular psychologist for a decade. Not one time have I been told that I needed to clean up my gosh darn 🙂 language. (Please see Evangelical Swear Words.) I just talked to my therapist today. We talked about real stuff; you know: gastroparesis, fibromyalgia, osteoarthritis, chronic pain, trauma, and how my Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) upbringing caused untold trauma and harm, to me, my wife, and my grown children. You know, REAL issues.
I am sure Joe won’t like what I have written here. I’m sure he will send me at least one email to register his outrage. If he does, I will post his email below.
Thank you for reading. I appreciate your love and support.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Yesterday, I had a brief, unproductive — aren’t they all? — email interaction with an Evangelical man named Joe. Joe wrote to complain about a video I posted titled Ten Reasons Why You Should NEVER Celebrate Halloween:
I read your comments about Halloween and Awaken L.A. church. I am a member of the church and do not hold to what the video teaches. It does not represent the church at all. Most members haven’t even seen the video. I loved Halloween as a child and had loads of fun going door to door collecting candy. Personally I see no harm in dressing up and “trick or treating”.
The only harm I could see would be a small child idolizing Killers and dressing up like them (Freddy Krueger for example). As a child we dressed up as hobos, pirates, etc with your occasional “dracula”– but it was a fun time. Children will make up their own minds one day– we don’t need to force them not to trick or treat, or be afraid of one-day a year.
I just wanted to add those comments as your article appears to label our church as some Cult-like group which it is not. The Halloween video is the product of one over-zealous member of the church with little wisdom or real understanding. As I said I hadn’t even seen this video until you posted it.
I responded:
Thank you for contacting me.
This video is on the official YouTube channel for Awaken L.A. If it doesn’t represent the official position of the church, then the video should be removed. I suggest you ask church leadership why the video is on the church’s channel and if it represents the official position of the church. You may have a different opinion, but that doesn’t mean your pastor (s) or church does.
Have a good week.
Joe replied:
Thank you. I will talk to our Pastor.
Joe then sent me this email:
I read “Bishop’s Roulette”. One question: if the “majority” of people think as you do in America, how can Donald Trump be elected again? Or is your math just a bit off?
I didn’t respond to this email. Maybe MJ Lisbeth, the author of the Bishop’s Roulette article, will answer Joe in the comment section.
And then he sent me this email:
I read your blog about Midwestern Bible College. You mention you are the only one you know who became an atheist. It reminded me– out of all the students who attended my graduating class at Canoga Park High School here in California, only ONE has driven off a cliff to his death.
I responded:
Really? I mean, really? For fuck’s sake, are you trying to say that me leaving Christianity is akin to someone driving off a cliff to kill themselves?
Do better, Joe, do better.
Joe replied:
I promise no more messages (unless it’s OK with you) but I am very curious about you.
Have you ever read the book by Jean Messlier the Roman Catholic Priest who served his whole life in the Catholic church and then died? I’ve forgotten the Title of his book, but Voltaire loved it.
After he died they found his memoirs and he pronounced his atheism clearly. I read the book and found it to be fascinating. It was hard to believe he had spent his life as a priest if he never really believed any of what he was teaching.
I thought “is that possible”? Then I saw your story. Preach for 50 years then become an atheist? 2 years maybe, but 50 years?? But then I realized that 1 John 2:19 does not have a time limit to it. It simply says “They went out from us to show that they were NEVER really of us”. Pretty clear– no time frame given. I know you “believe” you were once a truly born again person–sanctified and saved. But 1 John 2: 19 shows that when one goes forth and denies the faith they are “showing clearly” that what they claim is simply not true.
Is that possible though? I think Jean Messlier proves it can be so. Messlier had “left” the church in spirit many years earlier. He only stayed because the church was his whole life. When he died though he revealed his heart.
I know my quoting 1 John 2:19 might anger you. But is is right there in the Bible.
I would be interested in corresponding a bit with you if possible. Dan Barker wrote a book called “Losing faith in faith”. Interesting title actually. Not “Losing faith in Jesus”– no, its “Losing faith in faith”. It speaks VOLUMES. I would just be interested in asking you some questions. I find deconverts to be fascinating.
I responded:
It’s impossible to have a meaningful discussion with someone who refuses to accept my story at face value; someone who can dismissively wave away my life with a quote of a Bible verse.
Fact: I once was a Christian and now I am not. Your inability to square that with your theology is your problem, not mine.
You say you are a Christian. Imagine if I said, “no you are not.” Right here in Harry Potter 6:66 it says you never were a Christian. Imagine me dismissing your story out of hand. No matter what you said, I replied, Harry Potter 6:66 says . . .
I hope you understand and appreciate how offensive your line of questioning really is.
Let me add, your comment betrays a lack of imagination, a lack of understanding of theological systems other than yours.
Joe replied:
I accept your story Bruce. I really believe you believe you were truly a Christian. A true Christian believes the Word of God. And perhaps you “used” to believe it. One is “born again” by believing the Word. But what if one in reality never really believed it? Intellectually they held to it– but from the heart they always doubted?
Is that possible? Yes– it is. For example: Jehovahs Witnesses intellectually assent to the Word. But they are not “born again”. They follow “the letter” but not “the Spirit”.One could be a Jehovah’s Witness for 50 years and not be truly “saved”. Yes–its possible.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are sincere. But they are sincerely wrong. Because I AM a Christian I believe the Word. And it says in 1 John 2:19 that those who abandon the faith were never really of the faith– or they wouldn’t LEAVE it. There is no Harry Potter 6:66 in reality. But there IS a 1 John 2:19. And I believe it is God’s Word. I don’t dismiss your story. It’s real. It’s just that what you state is fantasy– you never were a true Christian. By leaving the Faith you PROVE that to be true.
Joe added:
Yes. To me leaving Christianity is like driving off a cliff. To have been SO close to Heaven and then turn back like those in Hebrews 6:4-6 is insanity. Being the “only one” from your school to become an atheist is no badge of honor. The people in Hebrews 6:4-6 are rare. But I would not want to be one of them. That’s for sure.
I did not respond to his last two emails. Why bother, right?
Another fruitless conversation with an obtuse, tone-deaf Evangelical Christian. Joe says he is interested in “understanding” the stories of people who leave Christianity, but this simply is not so. He just could not bring himself to understand my story at “face value,” — as factually true. Instead of accepting as true that I once was a Christian, Joe says I might have thought I was a Christian, but the Bible says otherwise. His mind is closed off from any worldview or belief system but his own. This is what Fundamentalism does to a person, robbing them of the ability to see things as they are. By any objective standard, I was a Christian, a child of God, one who was born from above. I pastored thousands of people over the years and was friends with numerous Evangelical pastors, missionaries, evangelists, and other church leaders. Not one person EVER said, “Bruce Gerencser is not a Christian.” Either I was a master of deception, deceiving thousands of people into believing I was a follower of Jesus, or I was who and what I said I was.
No matter what I say, Joe knows better. Why? The BIBLE says . . .
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
From time to time, I approve comments from a Fundamentalist Christian man who uses the “Revival Fires” pseudonym. He uses numerous other names and fake email addresses, but I change the name on his comments to Revival Fires. I don’t want people to think Jim, Bob, James, et al are different commenters. They are not. Revival Fires has a style, so as much as he tries to hide who he is, I can spot his comments as easily as a pink elephant standing in the middle of my living room.
In the past, I have deleted comments from the Revival Fires of the world (after their first comment). Of late, I have dialed my moderation back a bit, choosing to let Revival Fires and other Christian zealots whip out their metaphorical dicks and expose themselves to the world. I do this for one reason: I want readers to see firsthand the ugly, vicious, vile underbelly of Evangelicalism. And most importantly, I want readers to understand that Revival Fires is not an outlier, an exception to the rule. Millions of Evangelicals believe just as Revival Fires does. Oh, they are not as uncouth and ill-bred as Revival Fires, but their beliefs are similar to his. Most Evangelicals have learned the fine art of hiding their hate, homophobia, and bigotry. Most Evangelicals support Trumpism and establishing a Christian theocracy governed by the Bible (as interpreted by them, of course). Privately, they disparage LGBTQ people, call abortion murder, and support all sorts of racist policies. The only difference between them and Revival Fires is that they have an outward form of manners, the equivalent of “bless your heart” in the deep south. Behind closed doors, they promote all sorts of beliefs and practices which, if allowed, will cause untold harm to people different from them. The most dangerous people in America are not Muslims. That title goes to Evangelicals, especially those who live on the far-right edge of the Evangelical tent. Left to their own devices, Evangelicals will take over America for God — their God — enact Christian sharia law, and drag our nation back to the good old days of the 1950s. (Please see The Evangelical Plan to Return the United States to the 1950s.) We trust them at our own peril.
Back to Revival Fires’ comments. Do his comments bother you or make you less likely to read this blog? I think his (he is a male) comments are instructive and help expose Evangelicalism for what it is, but I don’t want to drive regular readers away.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
It never ceases to amaze me how Evangelicals think assertions are facts or truth. In classic presuppositionalist fashion, they assume, without evidence, that their assertions are self-evident, and only people who suppress the truth deny them. This allows them to dismiss out of hand anyone who disagrees with them.
Most Evangelicals are not taught to “think.” Instead, they are encouraged to regurgitate the “truth” preached from church pulpits. Even those who show intellectual ambition typically only read books and listen to people who reinforce their beliefs. I read lots of books, heavy theological tomes, as an Evangelical pastor. However, every book in my library of over 1,000 books reinforced my beliefs. Sure, I was challenged around the edges of my beliefs, but I didn’t read one author that challenged my core beliefs. I was almost fifty years old before I read books that caused me to question my beliefs about the inerrancy and infallibility of the Bible and the central tenets of Christianity.
God’s word stands on its own. We can argue for and against it, but it isn’t affected by either. God is in charge. We are not. I will say this. If you are unsaved now, you always were.
Justin asserted:
The Protestant Christian Bible (KJV?) stands on its own.
The Bible is impervious to criticism.
God is in control (sovereign).
If I am unsaved now, I never was saved.
Justin provides no evidence for his claims. He just baldly, arrogantly, and self-righteously asserts that they are true. He assumes, wrongly, that these “truths” cannot be challenged; that they are “facts” that reasonable people know are true.
In what ways does the Bible stand on its own? After all, it’s just a collection of books, mostly written by unknown authors. Surely, Justin is not claiming the Bible, either at the manuscript or translation level, is without error? If so, I wonder if he knows and understands that this claim cannot be intellectually sustained?
I will make the same offer to Justin I have made to other Evangelicals: I will have shipped to your home one of Dr. Bart Ehrman’s books on the nature and history of the Bible. Free of charge. All I ask is that you read it and meaningfully engage me on its content. Fourteen years in, I have yet to have one Evangelical take me up on my offer. Why is that?
You see, when you live in the Evangelical bubble, and even more so in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) bubble, you are walled off from any and all “truth” but your own. Certain that you are right, you see no need to engage beliefs contrary to your own. As I have said numerous times before, certainty breeds arrogance.
Justin asserts that “God is in control,” but outside of select Bible verses, there’s no evidence for his claim. All one needs to do is look at the world to see that the God of the Bible is not in control, and if, perchance, he is, he should be fired immediately. The evidence suggests that we are on our own and that we alone can affect change. Evangelicals admitted this much when they abandoned preaching the gospel and winning souls for raw, naked political power.
Finally, Justin, unable to square my story with his peculiar theological beliefs, attacks me personally, saying that I never was saved. I have provided mountains of evidence that suggests otherwise, but, Justin, with a wave of his hand, dismisses the fifty years I spent in the Christian church and the twenty-five years I spent slavishly and devotedly following Jesus Christ, preaching the gospel, winning souls, and living according to the teachings of the Bible. (And I would be more than happy to have a Christian dick-measuring contest with Justin if he is interested in doing so. I’m John Holmes confident that my life as a Christian more than measures up to his.)
Best I can tell, Justin read all of one post on this site. I encourage him to read the posts found on the WHY? page before ignorantly passing judgment on my life. God’s Holy Word says in Proverbs 18:13: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. Justin, if you are reading this, please listen to God. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Several years ago, I received the following email:
So, when you were a Christian, did you have a relationship with the Lord? And if you did, did you not study the bible, asking Him how you should apply what is written into your life? Did you not realize all the he said, she said of different Christian religions is all man made, laws and rituals (earthly confusion I think making others/us separated from God ) and not to be our basis for judging one another, because that is God’s job anyways.
I was raised catholic. I married a divorced Lutheran, and my scales were slowly being removed, as my mother in law told me, you know there will be others besides catholics in heaven…that rocked my world. . Fast forward 25 years of living in Houston Texas and many different Christian churches, all having nuances that makes them their label, but the church began when Jesus started preaching? Or died? I don’t really know, but does that affect my salvation? I believe no one shall come to the Father except through the Son. So, how did you break off your relationship with Our Lord? You know, He’s never let go of you and there’s nothing you can do to separate His love for you. I’m glad I don’t have it all figured out, because I bet you don’t have peace if you’re still lost in this stuff you’re trying to hold onto. Pride is a sneaky thing. But God loves His perfectly imperfect children.
Let me see if I can unpack some of what the letter writer says and asks, hopefully providing adequate answers to her questions.
The letter writer asserts that once someone becomes a Christian Jesus holds on to them f-o-r-e-v-e-r. She tells me that nothing can separate the believer from the love of Christ. Romans 8:31-39 states:
What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This means that if I was ever truly a Christian, I still am. No matter what I say or do, Jesus still loves me and has a wonderful plan for my life.
Based on her questions, I suspect that the letter writer has some doubts about whether I truly was ever a saved, sanctified, bought-by-the-blood Christian. She asks, did you have a relationship with the Lord? Of course I did. For most of my life, I was closer to and more intimate with Jesus than I was with my wife. I loved Jesus more than I loved my spouse and children. Jesus was the be-all and the end-all, the first and the last, the alpha and omega. I spent time daily talking to Jesus and reading his favorite book — the King James Version of the Protestant Bible. No one ever doubted who Bruce Gerencser put first in his life. I know Polly didn’t, and it wouldn’t have surprised me if she had divorced me, alleging neglect. I am grateful that she didn’t, and now I have the opportunity to show her who it is I really, really, really love, worship, and adore.
The letter writer also asks if I studied the Bible and sought to apply its teachings to my life. I sure did, day in, day out from the age of fifteen to the age of fifty. The word of God was an ever-present reality in my life. I studied, memorized, and practiced its words. As many aging ex-Christians with fading memories do, I have a hard time remembering what I watched on TV last night, but I can quote hundreds of Bible verses I memorized decades ago — all the way back to age five. As a pastor, I spent, on average, more than twenty hours a week reading and studying the Bible. From such studious endeavors, I bathed myself in THUS SAITH THE LORD. I preached thousands of sermons and shared the gospel of Christ with hundreds and hundreds of people. Simply put, I was all in when it came to following Jesus (as anyone who knew me at the time will tell you).
The letter writer wonders if I have peace. Yes and no, When it comes answering the question, do gods exist, I have no worries or concerns about saying NO. I am at peace with my atheism and humanistic beliefs. I have no fears of judgment or Hell. So, from this perspective, I have a Gandhian-level of peace. That said, I can’t say that I am totally at peace. How can I be? I watch the news every night. Scary stuff going on in the world. That said, most, if not all, of these things are out of my control. Generally, I am stoic about life, a pessimist with streaks of hopefulness.
I am almost sixty-five years old, and most of my life is in the rear-view mirror. My children and grandchildren, however, have many roads to travel before reaching home. I want them to have a better tomorrow, one where love, peace, and justice prevail. So while current events worry the heavenly hell out of me, I am committed to doing all I can to make the world a better place to live. One way I do so is to lay an ax to the bare root of Christian Fundamentalism, hoping that, in time, this tree of hate and bigotry will come crashing to the ground. And then I plan to chop the tree into firewood, have a bonfire, and roast hot dogs and marshmallows over its dying ember.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.