Just when I think I have heard every possible explanation for my past and present life, a Christian will cook up a new explanation that he believes properly explains my storyline. Unwilling to let me tell my own story — while demanding I accept their testimony of faith in a dead man named Jesus — these diviners of truth think they know me better than I know myself. Take Doug, who sent me an email that stated:
I just really stumbled on your site today . You r not an atheist or agnostic you and I both know that is not true . You just have become very bitter some where along the line. What triggered that only u know . The things u at one time believed u still believe . it is sad that u have taken the stand u have . The Bible states that it is possilble to even forget u have been saved by allowing bitterness to come n . U r n my prayers !
Let me summarize Doug’s divination of my mind:
I am not an atheist and I know it.
I am not an agnostic and I know it.
I am a Christian who has become bitter.
What triggered this bitterness, only I know.
What I once believed, I still, deep down in my heart of hearts — down where the Holy Ghost is snoozing away — believe.
I have forgotten that I am saved because I have allowed bitterness to come into my life.
Got all that?
First, Evangelicals such as Doug confuse directness with bitterness. I say what I mean, and mean what I say. There is nothing in my writing that suggests bitterness. Only Evangelicals who can’t square my life with their theology say I am bitter. Now if someone said I was angry or irritated, that would be different. Anger is a normal human emotion. I’ve learned to harness my anger and turn it into words and actions. I have found it is better to embrace my anger than pretend it does not exist or to think that being angry is a sin or weakness. But bitterness? Not a chance. Ask those who know me if I am bitter and they will tell you no. Being bitter is just not who I am.
Second, I am an atheist. Say that real, real s-l-o-w: Bruce Gerencser is an atheist. Shouldn’t I be the one to determine who and what I am? If I say I am an atheist and my beliefs and actions are consistent with atheism, shouldn’t my self-identification be taken at face value? Imagine me saying to Doug, You are not a Christian Doug, You know it, and I know it. Doug would be offended, as he well should be. If Doug says he is a Christian, then I should accept what he says, especially if his beliefs and actions are consistent with Christianity
Third, no I do not believe what I once believed. I don’t know how any person in his right or left mind can read my writing and conclude that I still believe what I once did. I had several belief changes as a Christian, so what beliefs specifically do I still believe? My beliefs in 1976 when I entered college were very different from my beliefs as a pastor in 1989, and my beliefs in 2003 when I pastored my last church were different from my beliefs in 1989. He who attempts to judge my beliefs at a certain point in time will likely be wrong. My beliefs continue, even today, to evolve and change. Old beliefs are challenged, corrected, or abandoned. New beliefs are embraced and believed until new evidence and knowledge force change. Even at the ripe old, curmudgeonly age of sixty-four, I still have the capacity to learn new things. New sex positions, for example. Learning them of course doesn’t mean I can do them. 🙂
One aspect of learning new things is the discarding of previous beliefs. I once was an Evangelical Christian. My theology was orthodox in every way. Today? I no longer believe in the existence of the Christian God. I no longer believe Jesus is God, nor do I believe he was virgin born and resurrected from the dead. Jesus was a man who lived and died two thousand years ago, end of story. I reject all the cardinal beliefs of Christianity, yet somehow, according to Doug I, still believe what I once believed. Pray tell, how is that so? Who better to know what I believe than yours truly?
Fourth, I have not forgotten I am saved. I know exactly when I was saved because I was there when Jesus saved me, and I know when I lost my salvation too, almost fourteen years ago. But Bruce, the Bible says once saved, always saved. Once Jesus saves you, you are forever his! What the Bible says is immaterial. After all, millions of Christians believe the exact opposite, that Christians can fall from grace, losing their salvation. Some Christians believe that once you have lost it you can never get it back. Regardless of how someone interprets the Bible and what soteriology they extract from its pages, shouldn’t I be the final arbiter on this side of the grave as to whether I am a Christian? Surely, it’s up to me to decide who and what I am.
So to all the Christian Dougs of the blogosphere, I say this: don’t think you can know me better than I know myself. You don’t. My wife of almost forty-four years knows me best, yet she doesn’t know everything about me. I see a counselor on a regular basis. She knows things about me that no one else knows. You know, things such as my secret desire to be a slinky, kinky crossdresser, complete with panties with the days of the week on them and red stiletto heels. Picture that in your mind, readers! 🙂 I wonder if published pictures of me in drag would change Doug’s mind about my s-a-l-v-a-t-i-o-n? If so, get ready Doug. High-resolution photographs are on their way!
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
My dear friend Zoe recently wrote the following for a blog post titled My Benediction:
Like all the years I studied to understand my former Christian belief system. At some point, I moved on from that, though I can engage, I often choose not to. Or, I limit my input. There comes a time when the sorrow attached to it all weighs heavily on the heart. The exercise has been beneficial for understanding me, mom, and a lot of humanity throughout history. I don’t have the energy anymore to go point by point to try and warn and or educate. My therapist shared something, with a caveat that at first this sounds terrible to say, but: Some people are just terminal.
Without going into more personal detail, this wasn’t about suicide or suicidal ideation. This was more about, if I understand it correctly, accepting that some people can’t be moved. And it’s more than a sense of them not wanting to move, they just can’t. They are in their own world and regardless of the reasons, some people can’t reason other than where they are at.
Over the years of recovery for me, I have read, I have studied, I have prayed my knees raw (in those years), I have listened, I have contemplated, I have educated myself and I have played devil’s advocate. If you’re going to try to educate others then you have to spend time studying the other side. Until of course, it’s time to stop. It doesn’t matter about their new tricks. There aren’t any new tricks. Actually, nothing has changed. I look at Christianity. What has really changed? Maybe that there are more denominations/sects now than when I joined up . . . but they’re still Christianity.
I met Zoe back in my emerging/emergent Christian days; my “barely” Christian days. She’s been around for the whole Bruce Gerencser Show — all five acts. Both of us have spent years interacting with abrasive, hostile Evangelical Christians with few satisfying outcomes. We have learned over time that some people are just terminal; that no amount of evidence or emotional capital is going to change their minds.
Since 2007, I have interacted with thousands of Evangelical zealots. Virtually every one of these interactions miserably failed. Why? Until a person can entertain the thought that they just might be wrong or that their beliefs might be untrue, there’s no hope for them. Most people who deconvert do so from the privacy of the shadows. One of the reasons I respond to hostile Evangelicals is to help the thousands of lurkers who frequent this site, but never comment or email me. Taking what they learn from my writing and the comments of readers, doubting believers think about their beliefs — whether they are rational and evidence-based. I love hearing from such people, learning that something I said made a meaningful difference in their lives.
Some days, I enjoy engaging Evangelical zealots for sport. I haven’t heard an original argument for the veracity of Christianity and the Bible in over a decade. When a know-it-all Evangelical thinks they can “educate” me, put me in my place, or “save” me, I lick my chops and say, “may I have BBQ sauce for the beef I’m about to shred?”
Other days, I am just content to sigh. (Please see Why I Use the Word “Sigh”.) I’m with Zoe when she says, “I don’t have the energy anymore to go point by point to try and warn and or educate.” Every day of my life is dominated by unrelenting pain, nausea, and bowel problems. Just getting out of bed is all I can do some days. Other days, I have a short window to do the things I want or need to do. Sunday, we went to Toledo to shop for groceries: Fresh Tyme Market, Costco, Monnette’s Market, and Meijer, finishing the night with dinner at Texas Roadhouse. Did I overdo it? Big time, as my counselor will remind me on Thursday. Two days later, I am still having a hard time moving. This afternoon, I had a steroid injection in my right hip. In two weeks, I will have an injection in my left hip. My orthopedic was brutally honest with me, saying that he was doubtful, based on the location of the pain, that the injections will be helpful. I am willing to give it a try, hoping to improve the quality of my life. Either that or maybe I’ll take up “praying.” 🙂 With these things and others as the backdrop of my life, I hope Evangelicals who want to grind on me like a stripper giving an IFB preacher a lapdance, understand if I don’t pay attention to them. For those I do, you are “special.” 🙂 Oh so “special” . . .
Are you an atheist, agnostic, or non-Christian? Have you changed the way you interact with Evangelicals over the years? Please share your experiences in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Several years ago, I received an email from an Evangelical man who said that Lucifer and I have a lot in common. Of course, I have a leg up on Lucifer. Unlike the Devil, I actually exist. And that is why frustrated, angry, outraged Evangelicals continue to send me email.
This email writer, who goes by the name Duane, came to this site as a result of a Yahoo search that led him to the post Holy Spirit Tells Jeremiah Johnson That Donald Trump is the Trumpet of God. He also read Why I Hate Jesus. All told, Duane spent less than ten minutes reading my writing. I am always amazed at how quickly the Holy Spirit leads Evangelicals to pass judgment on my past and present life.
What follows is the text of Duane’s email. No commentary from me is needed. 🙂
Man you have a really big problem. You talk about Jesus as if he let you down. Only you can reconcile with Jesus, in your time before he calls you to the throne of his judgement seat. This is promised to you and everyone who has walked this earth.
You seem to forget one thing. The Paraclete is the only friend you have. The third part of the trinity of God. Oh of coarse you do have a choice to go with the other guy. You know, the guy in the Bible who was God’s favorite creation. The highest Angel that God created in the very beginning of the story.
Yes the story that you seem to mock in your philosophy and writings that I have briefly read. That’s right, the other guy, who wanted to be God. Lucifer, not too different than your self who is self proclaimed and looking to lead people down the wrong path, with the lies of the world.
You do have a destiny that is promised to you and everyone who lives and breathes the same air, that God breathed into Adam. Yes you too are not getting off this planet alive. And then you will meet the face of Jesus, who was and is and is to come. I know this all sounds familiar to you yet some where along the way you lost yourself and all that God has promised you.
I love you and pray for you and all your family. I love you and God loves and Jesus loves you. You know how I know this. Because His tomb is empty! Amen and Amen
Sincerely, Duane **********
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Yesterday, I shared with readers an email discussion I had with Larry Beer, an Evangelical Christian. Based on Larry’s search history, it is likely he is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB).
Today, I received two more emails from Larry .
First Email
You can tell me to fuckoff or any word you chose, but I am still here in the presence of the God you believe does not exist and I love you as he loves all of us even though we do not believe it exists.
Love mean nothing when hate rules the mind and the heart you have found from others then you give back what they gave to you that you think is your love to expose hate?
You have the same unloving feelings of the Evangelists in your mind that you blame God changed them into yet you say God does not exist.
I am here any time you want to talk about why you do not like me even though I like you as my friend every minute of the day or night.
Second Email
Okay Bruce your totally right, there is no God or Satan to blame for our own desires and choices.
You gave the worldwide invitation on your own site; yes people gave you undeniable hate.
I do not see what you’re complaining about when you give back what you receive even to those who do not believe as you do you by you doing the same things you judge other for doing!
Yes you can tell me to fuckoff and ignore me that your own freewill choice, not mine;
When I was in a complete nervous breakdown and told I would end up in a wheelchair for the rest of my life guess what Bruce all that was healed by the same God you chosen to refuse to believe.
I know God is my judge for I know him by his love he gives to me and I tell you that is yours as well, what you do with that truth is your own freewill choice.
I will be here any time you can think Larry does love you because there is a God or why would I take the time to even go on your site.
No commentary from me. Larry’s words speak for themselves. He’s starting to sound like a stalker, someone who has a perverse understanding of “love” and “friendship.”
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Today, an Evangelical man named Tom Howard sent me the following email:
FAKE, fake, fake, faker. 25 yrs a fake. How many people did you fake out over those years? Imagine living as long as you have and concluding life as a fake so called atheistic demoncrat. Satan has faked you out and you haven’t a clue. The gall of you calling yourself an atheist yet fully espousing the Christian world view of morality, family, marriage, lawful living, what a faker! Your poor wife and kids must really hold you in high esteem, so just find a juniper tree and self abort and confirm your fake beliefs. This is all in the spirit of 1Tim5:20
1 Timothy 5:20 says
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
“Good” Christians always find a Bible verse to justify their hate.
If Heaven is where the Tom Howards of the world will be, please book me a suite in Hell.
What is it about Evangelical Christianity that turns some believers into vile, hateful people?
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
I answer every email I receive, even those from Evangelicals. Some days, as you shall see in a moment, I wonder why I bother. What follows is the email interaction I had with Larry, an Evangelical Christian from Canada.
Enjoy! 🙂
Larry:
Hi Bruce,
Just as comment I feel your site leaves little room to discuss who we are and why we are here.
I can only say whatever has influenced you was real to you and I am sorry the beginning of your life was not what you expected, but I hope what you have left will bring you some blessings of acceptance of others who do not believe as you do.
Sincerely; Larry, a person caring about others much as I care about myself.
Bruce:
Everyone, including nasty, arrogant, hateful Evangelicals are free to say anything they want in one comment. If they show they can play well with others, they will be given an opportunity to comment again. So, I have no idea what you are complaining about.
What makes you think I don’t accept people who believe differently from me?
Larry:
I wasn’t complaining just don’t understand what you are complaining about?
You obviously don’t accept anyone who claims God just wondering who that hurts you or them?
I am open to any comment and I do not hate your for any thing.
Bruce:
Evangelicalism is inherently harmful. I have fleshed out the reasons for this claim numerous times over the years.
My blog affords me an opportunity to tell my story and critique Evangelicalism (and the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church movement). My target audience is people who have doubts about Christianity or who have left Christianity.
You said “your site leaves little room to discuss who we are and why we are here.” That simply is not true. Every reader gets at least one opportunity to comment — even Christian assholes. I answer every email I receive, and I receive lots of them, most of which are negative or hostile. Thus, I am at a loss to understand your complaint.
I have Christian friends. Tomorrow, I will have dinner with two Christian pastors. I have been doing so monthly for two years. I have Christian family members, including some of my children. So, your claim about not accepting Christians (or people from other faiths) is not true. That said, my blog belongs to me. I get to choose who I want to interact with. Since most Evangelicals are nasty, arrogant, and abusive towards me, I hope you will forgive me for not giving them the time of day (outside of exposing the bankruptcy of their “faith.”) As long as Evangelicals cause harm, I plan to speak out against their beliefs and practices. They have taken over the Republican Party, tried to overthrow the government on January 6, and are waging a jihad against LGBTQ people, women who need abortions, and people of color. These things matter, yes?
Larry:
Yes all people matter, even those who do not care about you or I.
We can all be assholes, that is just another name given as hate to those who disagree with others.
People are people not Gods. Anyone can claim that are do thing for God but God is real or he is not. If some thinks he does exist he won’t exist to them, so why blame anyone for their own unloving characters as if God caused it.
Is that what you want people to now, just asking?
Bruce:
Sorry, Larry, “asshole” is an objective term. We all can be assholes at times, but some people are assholes 24-7, as emails to me and comments on my site clearly show. This is not about disagreement, it’s about character. Try walking in my shoes: threats of judgment and hell, death threats, threatening to harm my wife or daughter with Down syndrome . . . every vile thing imaginable has been said to me by so-called followers of Jesus. So, spare me the false equivalence.
“God” turns some people in bad people. Again, all you have to do is read my blog to see the evidence for this claim. I don’t let these assholes hide in the shadows. I publicize their “works” for all to see.
I don’t understand your question.
Larry:
Thanks for the clarification.
Anyone can choose to believe there is a God or there is no God.
One thing for sure God guarantees if anyone earnestly seeks him, they will find him and know him.
Very simple, easy and it definitely can only be our own decision by our own minds and hearts not others.
Those who attack you may be foolishly replying to your remarks like calling them ”assholes”. Anger is still anger but to refer them as being leader from God also attacks God.
God turns no one into anything or he would only be the devil.
God gave all of us a freewill choice in his image and we all choose to be what we are and how we treat others.
I am not asking a question I am replying to your invitation you give on your site and I have accepted you in love as I love myself.
I do not like being talked down to but I know God is real, not by others examples but as he said he is.
Your open so I came to let you know looking at others will never show the truth God there really is.
Your blessed with some much more than others in deeply sad fearful lives like wars and famines.
People who call other names, God will judge them not me.
Bruce:
sigh
You are not listening, you are “preaching.” I am an atheist, so any discussion about God/Satan is a waste of time. I simply don’t care.
You said, Those who attack you may be foolishly replying to your remarks like calling them ”assholes”. I told you why they attack me, yet you ignore this and justify the atrocious behavior of your fellow Christians. Good job, Larry.
You wrongly think I am “open” to the bullshit you are peddling. I assure you, I am not.
We are done here.
Larry:
You have a site on worldwide internet, and you open to anyone as you have even said by your own choice, stop your site and all will be well.
Then go back and seek God and his love that will never condemn you, is that not worth seeking and knowing, my friend Bruce?
The others are in God’s hands also for he guarantees it.
Bruce:
Fuck off, Larry.
Thank you for not listening to one word I had to say.
You came to my site looking for info on Jack Hyles. You made no effort to read any of my autobiographical material. I assume, then, you had an agenda, not understanding and interaction.
Why would I go back and seek a mythical being, Larry? Do you realize how absurd you sound? Your religious babbling only works with people who believe. I don’t.
And you most certainly are not my friend.
Larry:
Thanks Bruce,
I read a lot and I love you as I love myself.
You believe or you would not be so angry.
Just another syrupy, passive-aggressive discussion with an Evangelical Christian only interested in preaching and evangelizing. What’s new, right?
Larry says he read a lot of my writing, but the server logs say he read one post about Jack Hyles before sending me an email. He may have read other posts, but I doubt it. Evangelicals lie about what they have read on this site all the time. Lots=two posts. Everything=five posts. If Larry extensively read my writing, his emails do not reflect it. Just once, I wish such people would read the posts on the WHY? page before emailing me or commenting. Instead, they practice Proverbs 18:13: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude. Just remember, God said it, I didn’t. 🙂
I am sure some readers wonder why I bother answering emails and comments from the Larrys of the world. Doing so is largely a waste of time. Sometimes, however, I can reach someone, leading to them questioning their sincerely held beliefs. Any move away from Fundamentalism is a good one. Other times, these discussions provide fodder for this blog, shining a bright light on how Evangelical behave towards atheists, agnostics, and other believers. People such as John, James, Jim, David Tee, Lonnie, Larry, and a cast of thousands reveal the ugly, vicious underbelly of Evangelical Christianity. I have received enough of these emails and comments over the past fifteen years to conclude that these people are not just a few bad apples or crazy uncles. Like it or not, Evangelical beliefs and practices turn some Christians into hateful, meanspirited people; people who take pleasure in condemning people to Hell; people who revel in savagely attacking LGBTQ people; people who have no capacity to understand or accept people different from them.
That said, there are a handful of Evangelicals who regularly comment on this site. Some of them have been commenting for years. Scores of other Evangelicals faithfully read my writing. I am grateful for their love and support. If only most Evangelicals were like them, I suspect I would have a much better view of Evangelicalism. Not that I am going to return to the fold. That ship has sailed. For these Evangelicals, friendship in this life is enough for them. They are content to let God sort out things after death (as am I). Are they really Evangelicals? That’s for them to say. I generally accept how people self-identify. People have many and varied reasons for wearing the Evangelical moniker. Labels don’t matter much to me anyway, behavior does. I am always grateful for Evangelicals who put their humanity first.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Yesterday, I received the following email from an unhappy reader:
I (mostly) love your posts – the ones that focuses on general relevant matters/issues and not on yourself. As I receive the emails, please do not search in your blog logs…
Since I found your blog I was very impressed and even subscribed. I even engaged before which you entertained up to a point. But something has been bothering me and I could just not put my finger on it.
So I have to now say this even if it is simply to make me feel better – and no, it is not the ‘bitter’ ‘thing’. Although you lost your faith and changed your believe system, you have NOT lost two of the very ingrained characteristics of evangelical pastors/preachers: You still ‘know it all’/’have all the answers’ and is still very much judgemental, e.g. judging people on their language use. Maybe that is why evangelicals still like to engage with you, they can relate, as they see that you are actually one of them – at least in behavior/reaction!
And no, I am not an evangelical.
I replied:
Sigh.
Sorry, I checked the logs.
First, If you have been reading my writing for a while, then you know “I don’t know it all.” Not even close. Your baseless assertion is simply wrong. As far as being an expert on the IFB church movement or Evangelicalism in general, what do you want me to say? I am, in fact, an expert on these things. That’s why reporters contact me for background information and why I regularly do on-the-record interviews. I’m sure you know stuff too, right? I make no apology for what I know and who I am.
Second, we all make judgments. ALL OF US, as you did with this email; with your judgments about my character.
Third, I am not aware of me judging anyone for their language.
Fourth, if you don’t like me as a person, by all means, stop reading my writing. I wouldn’t want to offend your sensitivities further. Would you like me to unsubscribe you from receiving the emails?
Anything else?
The emailer responded:
It must have been in the middle of the night there in your part of the globe when you responded, so you do not sleep? And you were quite fast/swift at that to. Also, I do note that you responded in person, not via your PA. Thank you for confirming my observations. I did not judge, I observed. R.E. language comment, see (okay, so I suppose it is about ‘dogma language’) Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Geri Ungurean Calls for the Arrest and Execution of Dr. Tony Fauci
I am sure you know it all about the IFB church and so on. Be that as it may, my life was quite good before I even knew of some body called the IFB church or of Bruce Gerencser, and will be quite good post that. I just hoped that I could learn something from that church (even if from their bad example) and from you, but I prefer to learn from humble people. By the way, I stumbled across your blog when I researched some church in Auckland New Zealand, their teachings etc. and saw that you were approached to comment on that. So I am well aware of your credentials. I unsubscribed myself, don’t worry.
P.S. Don’t know why I still responded – suppose just to make myself feel better – selfish person that I am.
Based on the server logs, this person has been reading my writing since 2020. He (or she) clicked on the Contact link numerous times over the past two years before finally following through with an email.
I found this person’s emails to be quite puzzling. My writing style has been pretty much the same for years. If someone doesn’t like reading my personal, first-person posts, why bother to read my writing? This blog is primarily about my journey from Evangelicalism to atheism. Even when I write about issues, I tend to use lots of personal stories and analogies. This has always been the case. That said, I don’t care why people read. I just find it puzzling that this person waited two years before emailing me to tell me what he “really” thinks.
Now to the substance of his emails.
First, I am a late-nighter. Regular readers know this. I typically do my writing between the hours of 7:00 pm and 11:00 pm. My wife, Polly, works second shift as a manager at a large manufacturing concern in Archbold, Ohio, from 6:00 pm to 2:00 am. Typically, we go to bed around 4:00 am. (We’ve been a late-night family most of forty-three years of marriage.) Once I am in bed, it takes me two to four hours to get to sleep. Bedtime is the worst time for me, pain-wise. I fall asleep when drugs finally overwhelm the pain and I fall asleep in exhaustion. Typically, I sleep in two to three hour blocks. Bowel and bladder problems routinely interrupt my sleep. Thus you are likely to get an email or text from me when most people are fast asleep.
This person emailed me at 2:01 am. I responded at 2:49 pm. As far as being swift or fast with my response, is there an appropriate amount of time I am supposed to wait before responding? One of the reasons I promptly responded is that I wanted to respond instead of Carolyn. Trust me, if she had responded, I doubt the emailer would have been pleased with its tone. 🙂 She doesn’t suffer fools either. 🙂
Second, this person calling his email an “observation” is a distinction without a difference. We all make judgments. When I received his email, I made a judgment about him. He’s done the same with me. This man has determined I am a know-it-all, judgmental person, lacking humility. While I think his judgment is without merit, what could I possibly say to change his mind? That’s why I suggested he stop reading my writing. If his sensitivities are so easily offended by my words, it is best for him to avoid this blog.
Third, his claim that judge people for language use has no merit. Commenters are free to say whatever they want, even Evangelicals. EVERY, and I mean EVERY, Evangelical commenter is given one opportunity to say whatever he or she wants.
The email used a link to a quote by Geri Ungurean as evidence of me judging people for language. Huh? I made no commentary either in the post or in the comment section about Ungurean’s quote.
Fourth, I suspect the real issue here is that I speak authoritatively on the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement and Evangelicalism in general. I spent the first fifty years of my life in Evangelicalism, as a member, college student, and pastor. I have been writing about and critiquing Evangelicalism and the IFB church movement for two decades. I continue to follow these things closely, reading blogs, checking out websites, listening to podcasts, and watching YouTube videos. I do these things because it is my job. Does anyone think I would be wading in this cesspool if it wasn’t for this blog? Of course not. I have a job to do, and as long as I am physically able to do so, I plan to keep putting on my hip waders and wading into the Evangelical toilet. If this makes me a know-it-all or judgmental, so be it.
As far as humility is concerned, the emailer confuses my pointed, direct approach with arrogance. Not much I can do about this. Either you like my writing style, or you don’t. I have quit following a number of people over the years. Not one time did I ever think to send them an email telling them what I don’t like about them. Different strokes, for different folks, right? This doesn’t mean I don’t make mistakes or that I can’t do better. I try every day to be a better person and writer than I was the day before. It saddens me that the emailer was disappointed in me, but I have learned that I can’t be all things to all men. I am an old man, a cranky curmudgeon (please see I Make No Apologies for Being a Curmudgeon). I have a lot of “stuff” on my plate financially and health-wise, so I really don’t have much time to invest in changing the minds of people who don’t “like” me. I will listen and respond, but expecting me to be anyone other than who I am? It ain’t gonna to happen.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Long-time readers of this blog know exactly what I mean when I use the word “sigh.” They know my lingo, my style. However, new readers/commenters/emailers might not understand me saying “sigh” to them, so I thought I would briefly explain my use of this word.
When I say “sigh” to you, what I really mean is this:
What, this lame argument again?
Really? I mean really?
New day, same old shit.
Are you fucking kidding me?
Is this the best you got?
Where or where have I heard this before?
I’m so tired of people not bothering to read my writing.
Lame.
Stupid.
Ignorant.
What a dumbass.
OMG! Does this person think I have never heard this before?
You must be related to Jim/John/James/Lonnie/David Tee.
You are an annoying asshole.
I’m too tired to care about what you think.
I know you won’t hear a word I have to say.
I am not interested in what you have to say.
As you can see, in the original language of the Bruce Gerencser Bible, “sigh” has many meanings. Sometimes, when used in response to a nasty, arrogant, hateful Evangelical, “sigh” means all of the above. After fifteen years of blogging, and receiving thousands of comments, emails, and social media messages from Evangelicals, Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB), conservative Catholics, and Fundamentalist atheists, I no longer am willing to invest time in giving thoughtful, detailed responses to people who don’t care one whit about what I have to say. Their comments and emails are not about them gaining understanding about my story or finding answers to questions. Instead, their goal is to attack, criticize, condemn, threaten, and harm. To such people, I say, “sigh.” Or fuck off. That works too. 🙂
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Several years ago, a man by the name of Todd W Frederick stopped by to comment on the post Why I Hate Jesus. Based on the server logs for this site, Frederick read two or three posts and the comment rules page. While it is possible he read other posts, I have my doubts Frederick showed any interest in finding out who and what I am. As you will see in a moment, Frederick has already passed judgment, saying that I am headed for an eternal ass-whooping in hell.
Frederick has two years of Bible training via correspondence from Victory Bible College (no active website) in Roan Mountain, Tennessee and Bethany Bible College in Dothan, Alabama. Neither institution is accredited. I can say of Bethany Bible College that their curriculum is Sunday School class level. Back in the 1980s, I thought about finishing my degree through Bethany. After receiving the first materials, I was appalled to find out how weak they were academically. There are numerous such institutions scattered around the United States, offering easy paths to undergraduate and postgraduate degrees. Some of these colleges are considered diploma mills.
Frederick and his wife Heather do what he calls “harp evangelism” through a ministry titled Upstate Celestial Strings. Frederick’s wife is an accomplished harp player:
Currently Heather and her husband, Todd W. Frederick, participate in ministry opportunities with their local Baptist Church in Greenville, SC. They also enjoy working together as a team doing harp evangelism meetings for local Bible believing churches. Todd preaches a message from the Bible and Heather plays her harp. At UPSTATE CELESTIAL STRINGS, we echo the prayer of Psalm 71:22 with King David who stated:
“I will praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.”
Frederick is unapologetically Christian; and not just any kind of Christian. He is a King James-only, Muslim-hating, pro-white (his business website says “call … to speak to a live “European-American” citizen), Donald Trump-supporting Fundamentalist Baptist. I encourage you to peruse the Whiter Than Snow Appliances website. Besides having an atrocious 1990s website design — as all of his websites do — Frederick makes it clear that he is a Fundamentalist Christian businessman interested in only doing business with Fundamentalist Christian South Carolinians. Are you gay? Don’t even think about shopping at Whiter Than Snow Appliances. The front page of its website says:
The Colours of the Rainbow do not truly represent Sodomites (aka-“gays” which actually means “merry” or “happy”). The sodomite terrorists hi-jacked the sign of the rainbow and claimed it as their symbol; yet, they do that which is why Jehovah-Elohim destroyed the “old world” – because of sins [II Peter 2:5 –KJV], sins that the queers celebrate! They hold to the lifestyle of Sodom! The queers have tried to pervert the rainbow which is actually a perfectly good Biblical Symbol of God’s Promise to never destroy the earth again by a world-wide flood because of wickedness; such as Homosexuality. It’s sad, but the homosexual crowd does not have a clue about happiness (joy in the Holy Ghost)… just look at their suicide rate! Even attacking each other in their perverted relationships. They’re a very sad, not gay, people group.]
I am sure local LGBTQ people flock to Frederick’s appliance business. Not only is Frederick anti-gay, he is also anti- any other religion except Evangelical Christianity, and anti- any other political persuasion except conservative Republicanism. It’s fortunate that Frederick’s business is located in Fundamentalist Baptist, Evangelical South Carolina. Almost eighty-percent of South Carolinians self-identify as Christian. Frederick’s business is located in the small town of Piedmont — the home of Piedmont Bible College (a Fundamentalist Baptist institution with 740 students) — so I suspect the percentage of Christians is even higher than in larger South Carolina. Such behaviors here in Northwest Ohio — an overwhelmingly Evangelical area — would likely result in business failure. Local Evangelicals might have similar beliefs to Frederick’s, but most of them, at least to your face, are polite. (See Local Response for some notable exceptions.)
As I read Frederick’s email to me, I was perplexed by one line: these unfortunate events were brought about by Shaitan of whom you are now obeying his humanistic teachings. I thought, at first, that Frederick had misspelled the word Satan. Nope. Frederick says, in a first for this site after 38,000 comments and thousands of emails, that I am following the humanistic teachings of Shaitan. According to Wikipedia Shaitan is:
Shayṭān is a malevolent creature in Islamic theology and mythology. They are usually assigned to the category of jinn (spiritual entities). Apart from its generic designation, used with the definite article Al-, Shaitan refers to the head of shayateen, known as Iblis.
….
The term Shaytan has the same origin as Hebrew שָׂטָן (Sātān), source of the English Satan. However Arabic etymology relates Shaytan to the root sh-t-n (distant or one who goes astray). As an adjective, it can apply to any other being. The term “Shaytan” referring to this specific creature, may either be translated as “demon” or as “devil”. In Pre Islamic Arabia this term was used to designate an evil jinni. With the emergence of Islam the meaning of ‘Shayatin’ moved closer to the Christian concept of demons.
Frederick and I, indeed, have one thing in common: both of us are following non-existent, mythical beings.
Now that you know a bit about Todd Frederick, I give you his email. I will leave it to readers to make their own judgments. I plan to un-ban Frederick so he can so respond to this post and any comments it might receive.
You reap what you sow here and in the hereafter. I was right, you are ‘Bruce Nobody’ because you are unwilling to pick fights with other cultural gods, e.g. Allah; you talk big: aren’t they imaginary, too? So just shut down your website for these whiners about baby Jesus until you and your “brainwashed” followers grow a spine and declare war on all of the followers of god(s) throughout the world, or let’s just say the gods that are worshiped in Ohio alone. Once you and your devotees to humanistic logic can offend and persuade all of those outside of your “little box” to realize they have been duped and you can “free” them, as you did for one of your female converts to atheism then you will be “Bruce Almighty.”
Furthermore, you call my comments for you to stand up against the Quran “nasty, abusive words” yet you’re permitting your fellow infidels to run rough shod over others coming to express his or her viewpoints. An example of this is from one of your devotees: “Bruce, how do you deal with assholes like this Charlie asswipe?” Yes, enjoy yourself while you can ‘Bruce Nobody’ even though you are in control now as to who you can delete or block when it comes to comments and IP addresses but the time will be soon when you’ll stand before this “imaginary god” only to find that you don’t have a delete button for the terror you’ll be facing. Mock, be cocky now and talk behind people’s back when they’re unable to defend themselves and you will be reaping this, too. Remember: Prov. 1 26 “I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; 27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. 28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:”
I know you don’t like it when the bible is used, except when it benefits your trite, empty arguments but how can ‘Bruce Nobody’ be so sure of what you’re espousing to even though all of the cultures of the world have some form of having a creation account, writings that depict the “gods were angered at the original parents…”, a universal flood and even the evidences of antediluvian artifacts found in archeological digs in the Middle East. So shameful that you’re destroying the possibilities that your grandchildren to be able to make a conscience choice to receive god and a home in heaven because you are so spiritually sick. Just be sick for yourself if this is what you are irresistibly drawn to but to take your family to the lake of fire with you is what’s really “nasty and abusive.”
Like it or not, the truth tells you these facts and I am now your enemy because I tell you the truth. God didn’t foreordain for you to “suffer more than Jesus did”; these unfortunate events were brought about by Shaitan of whom you are now obeying his humanistic teachings. Continue in his doctrines and you will truly understand what suffering will be but it doesn’t have to be this ending for you: Jesus suffered your sin penalty in hell, baring in his body the sins of the world; thus, making all who repent and believe on Christ to be made righteous.
God is the purest form of love: John 3:16 – KJV. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God…
Sure makes me want to return to Christianity and follow after Jesus, right? Fundamentalists such as Frederick are only interested in hearing themselves talk. Frederick doesn’t really care about my mythical soul. All he cares about is putting a word in for Jesus. Fuck the atheists, let them burn in hell, people such as Frederick think. All that matters to such people is the preaching of their peculiar version of the Christian gospel. Little do they know or care how much damage they are causing to the Christian cause. Keep preaching, Bro. Frederick. Such beliefs and practices are partly behind the overall decline of Evangelical Christianity. Frederick might “feel” good after telling the ex-Evangelical pastor Bruce Gerencser the “truth,” but his truth is poisoning a whole generation of potential Christians and church members. I don’t need to evangelize for atheism, the Fredericks of the world are doing all the soul-saving work for me. If you doubt this to be so, consider the following review left on the Whiter Than Snow Appliances Facebook page. The reviewer is a Mormon:
Todd Frederick, the owner, was professional and helpful with our new stove, I will give him that much. We need a new dryer and fridge as well and were convinced at first that we were doing business with him further until on his way out he asked what church we attended. He did not agree with the church that we are members of and proceeded to tell us why we were wrong. As if this wasn’t bad enough, he would not stop berating us about it. He was absolutely relentless with this ridiculousness. We asked him several times to leave because he had gone well past being rude to being totally disrespectful in our own home. He not only would not leave, he had the audacity to tell us that since we were renting it wasn’t even our home. I could not believe the gall of this man. My wife and I both had to walk to the other end of the house just to get away from this man hoping he would eventually leave. The most unprofessional experience I have ever encountered. The saddest part of all this is usually when something like this happens you can walk away from the individual, but how can you walk away when the offender is right in your own living room and won’t leave when asked…simply UNBELIEVABLE!
Danny Mortimer, the Mormon missionary, just didn’t like me having some knowledge about his cult. Therefore, he has stooped so low as to smear my business. Fact is, Joseph Smith’s translations from Egyptian ancient papyri is utter nonsense and simply UNBELIEVABLE!
Here’s the true account of what occurred during the dialogue that I had with Danny Mortimer and his wife. Since Danny believes he will one day be a god, he needs to stop lying about people with whom he disagrees with. Otherwise, he will be like his brother Satan, a.k.a. in Mormon doctrine: “a spirit son of God.”
….
I simply asked Danny if he had good church to go to; he said he’s a Mormon. I said ‘I was going to invite you to Forestville Baptist Church.’ He said he attended there when he was younger but converted to Mormonism later and became a Mormon missionary. [Danny’s religion is known for challenging people themselves.] I then asked the question ‘What made you change from being a Baptist to a Mormon?’ His ans: “I studied Mormon doctrine and logically it made sense to me.” He asked me if I knew anything about Mormonism; I said ‘Yes, I studied up on Mormonism to explain what’s wrong w/ Mormon doctrine to our divorced neighbor lady w/ 3 children who were visited continually by Mormon missionaries.’ Danny asked me if I’d read the book of Mormons, I said ‘No.’ He said “You can’t speak about Mormonism until you read the book of Mormons.”
I then brought up fallacies in the Mormon doctrines, such as: How Mormons believe: “As God was, so is man and as God is, so shall man be.” Thus, they teach you can become “Gods.” They also believe that God spawns/makes “spirit babies” that are sent down to earth to inhabit human physical babies born to Mormon couples. Also teaching: each Mormon married man (even to multiple wives) will have children, being recipients of “the spirit babies.” Then after he dies, will become a “God” over his own planet, inhabiting it w/ his children and his favorite wife (who he will call up from the dead). They’ll then repopulate their planet. Thus, they will repeat the cycle that the “God in heaven is now experiencing.”’ [These doctrines are all erroneous teachings] I then asked Danny ‘Do you believe that you’ll be a “God” someday?’ To this he said “I hope so.” Then he went on to say again that I still couldn’t speak about Mormonism until I read the book of Mormon. Danny expressed anger because of the truth I was exposing about his false-religion, saying “You’re talking ‘Calculus’ when you haven’t even studied Algebra.” (Meaning: I was revealing too much about his false teachings and he didn’t like it.)
Neither Danny, nor his wife, ever once asked me to leave; instead, he asked me what I knew about Mormonism and I answered him/them. Not only are Danny Mortimer and his wife in a false religion but he’s also spreading lies about our discussion. Before I left, I told them that I also have discussed doctrinal differences with an imam (an Islamic priest) for over 2 hours (at the mosque). [Actually, I had a friendlier dialogue w/ this Imam than I experienced from Danny who exhibited much anger (being under conviction by the Holy Ghost that he’s wrong.) [I spoke w/ Danny and his wife for only about 20 minutes, making me late to church.] I ended the discussion by telling Danny that hopefully I didn’t offend him and I enjoyed our dialogue. I shook his hand and left. I’m shocked that Danny would act so child-like by ignoring our 1st Amendment Right to freedom of speech then go on and attack my business. Even the Mormons take liberties to try and make converts by incorporating opportunities into their work-a-day meetings to speak one-on-one to people they come in contact with. [Just ask anyone who has gone job hunting in Utah or Idaho.]
Jesus Christ has given the Great Commission. As a Christian, I’m to reach the lost, giving them the only hope that can bring salvation to them. The biblical Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, is that hope: Jesus Christ lived a perfect life, was crucified for our sins and was resurrected from the dead; thus, he is able save all who call upon him. Believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and you, who are sorry for your sins and repent of them, will be given the Holy Ghost. He will guide you into all truth; empowering you to live out the will of God. [You won’t become a “God.” Lucifer tried that; see where that’s gotten him.]
….
Yowzer!
Todd W. Fredrick is one of those rare birds who behaves the same way in public as he does on the internet. I have concluded that Frederick does indeed have an advanced degree; a degree in passive-aggressive behavior toward people who don’t line up with his religious beliefs. I am not against Evangelicals attempting to engage me or the readers of this blog in thoughtful discussions about God, Jesus, Christianity, the Bible, human sexuality, abortion, atheism, agnosticism, and humanism. Over a million Evangelicals have stopped by this blog over the past decade. More than ninety-nine percent of them never leave a comment or send me an email. And those who do? Most of them are argumentative, arrogant, judgmental assholes. Rare is the Evangelical who acts like a decent human being. I long ago concluded that many Evangelicals believe that I am beyond the grace of God: that as one who does “despite unto the spirit of grace” and “trods under foot the son of God,” and “considers the blood of the covenant an unholy thing” (Hebrews 10:29), I have passed a point of no return. I am a reprobate (Romans 1,2) who has committed the unpardonable sin. And since there is no chance of my return, it is okay to treat me like shit on the bottom of one’s shoes.
After a decade of such abuse, there is zero chance that I would ever reconsider the claims of Christianity — especially Evangelical/Fundamentalist/Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Christianity. Perhaps historians or archeologists will find some sort of evidence that might cause me to reconsider Christianity. Even if this unlikely event occurred, I wouldn’t return to the Christian faith. Much like an abused spouse, I would be out of my mind to return to a religion that harbors violent pathological abusers. Well, what will you say on judgement day, Bruce, when Jesus casts your sorry ass into the Lake of Fire? I will say, Jesus, many of your followers were assholes who showed me no love, kindness, or compassion. Some of them threatened to murder me, and others threatened to harm my daughter with Down syndrome. Lord, who are these people of yours? I wouldn’t want to live next door to such people, and I sure don’t want to spend eternity with them in God’s Heavenly Trump Tower®. Please, Lord, send me to hell. Let me enjoy the eternal company of Christopher Hitchens, Gandhi, my atheist/liberal Christian friends, and billions of other “sinners” who just so happened to have the wrong beliefs. I don’t like warm weather, Lord, but I will endure it as long as I don’t have to go to heaven. Thank you.
Of course, there is no Heaven or Hell. All we have is the here-and-now. And as a man who lives very much in the present, I plan to do all I can to suffocate the life out of Evangelical Christianity, or at the very least banish it to the fringes of American society. I hope you will continue to help me in this important task. We ARE making progress, as surveys show. The number of atheists, agnostics, NONES, and those who are indifferent towards religion continues to increase. The NONES are the fasting growing religious demographic in America. We ARE winning the battle, all praise be to Shaitan and Loki.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
A Fundamentalist Christian woman by the name of Lucinda Palestrant sent me the above email several years ago. Palestrant came to this site via a Google search for Darwin Fish. In 2015, I wrote a post about Fish titled, Darwin Fish, A True Prophet of God. I described Fish this way: Darwin Fish, the truest Christian on earth, a Fundamentalist on steroids. Evidently, Palestrant is also a member of that elite, super-sanctified, elect remnant of Christians who supposedly will someday be rewarded by Jesus for their mind-numbing. devotion to what they believe are the TRUE teachings of the Bible. Heaven awaits them, their reward for stoutly standing for true Christianity®, while the illimitable sea of humans, past, present, and future, will be cast into outer darkness, facing eternal torture and suffering because they were born in the wrong country, raised in the wrong home, or had the wrong beliefs. (See Why Most Americans are Christian.) And for people such as myself, those who have full knowledge of the truth, yet reject it and lead others astray? Hell, fueled by God’s hatred of sin, awaits.
Palestrant warns me: The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. (Psalm 94:11) Evidently, this verse is supposed to scare me. God knows what you are thinking, Bruce, Palestrant admonishes, thinking that I will quake in my Sketchers over the very thought of her God reading my mind. Here’s what Palestrant fails to understand: I think her God is a myth, no more able to read my mind than Leonard Nimoy — of Star Trek fame — is able to do a mind-meld and read my innermost thoughts.
As a writer, public figure, and a well-known atheist, I understand that my written and spoken words matter. Virtually every day that I am physically able, I send out my words to be read by thousands of people. For almost six years now, my editor, Carolyn, has edited my writing, helping me to hone my writing skills, saving me from countless careless, imprecise errors. My goal has always been the same: to passionately and effectively tell my story in such a way that it infuriates Fundamentalists, helps those who have been harmed by Fundamentalism, and provides a voice for those who have been psychologically savaged by Evangelical Christianity. (See Are Evangelicals Fundamentalists? )I consider it a great honor to have the Lucinda Palestrants of the world tell me that I am leading people to Hell. Since the Biblical Hell is about as real as Donald Trump’s Christianity, the only “hell” I am leading readers to is the one filled with reason and freedom. It is in this “hell” people find that they are free to follow the path of life wherever it leads. No longer shackled by Fundamentalist dogma, former Evangelicals are free to embrace the wild, wonderful (and dangerous) world on their own terms. I can only hope that Lucinda Palestrant will someday experience the wonders of a mind liberated from the bondage of the Christian Bible.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.