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Tag: Evangelicalism

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: The Evils of Masturbation

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masturbation

The host of a popular Christian dating podcast recently said that masturbation is giving into a spirit of perversion and should not be done by Christians. 

Tovares Grey, an author and speaker who spearheads the Godly Dating 101 podcast, said in a July 14 episode that it is a “myth” to say that masturbation is “normal.” He clarified that the act of pleasuring oneself in a sexual nature is not a man-only issue because women also struggle with addictions.

“I know a lot of people have the impression that the Bible doesn’t explicitly say anything. So, is it a sin? Is it not a sin?” he said. “I’ve had feedback in regards to the podcast when we spoke about [masturbation] briefly in the past. … And then there was a whole lot of women that commented that they were struggling with that, [and] with pornography. So [it’s a] way bigger issue than I thought.” 

Grey, a husband and father of two, referenced 2 Timothy 2:22 to note that lust is a sin, adding it’s impossible to masturbate without lusting.

The podcaster explained the Bible is “not specifically clear on a lot of things” when it comes to what one can and cannot do, “but it does mention the principles that we should avoid.”

“Why would God tell us to abstain from fornication and then He’s like, ‘Oh, but masturbation is cool?’” Grey said. He dismissed the idea that masturbation is “normal and you should do it.” 

He quoted Genesis 3:4-6, where the serpent convinces Eve to eat the forbidden fruit by assuring her that nothing bad will happen and that her “eyes will be opened.”

“I believe that’s what the devil is doing today,” Grey said. “He wants you to think, ‘Hey, man, don’t overthink it. It’s normal. Hey, some doctors even recommend it. Don’t even overthink this. God is not going to get mad at you.”  

“Did God really say you’re allowed to have these hormones and not act on them? Did God really give you urges that you’re not able to act on?’” asked Grey, speaking from the devil’s perspective. 

“[Satan tries] to tell you there are benefits to it without considering the consequences of acting out [in] our flesh and turning away from the Holy Spirit.” 

Grey addressed listeners who struggle with addiction to masturbation due to abuse and trauma in their pasts. He recommended that they seek therapy or prayer.

“I know there’s a lot more women who struggle with that and there’s a lot of people who say ‘Oh, I do it because it’s the only time, [I] feel good because of abuse [and] all these other issues.’ And that’s why it’s so needed to go to God in prayer for healing.”

For those who engage in masturbation to release “sexual frustration,” Grey said they need to eliminate things that can lead to temptation. He noted that if “there was no desire for it, there would be no reason to cave into it.” 

“Every single person has a sex drive,” Grey explained. “That’s how God creates us. But what happened was your appetite was growing too much, growing too high.”

“You had too heavy of a desire that you did not know how to release that, because you’re more than likely not married, that you decided to take matters into your own hands.” 

Every sexual temptation is “the enemy” planting seeds in someone, according to Grey. He cited examples of sex scenes on television or music that include sexually graphic lyrics. 

“He’ll plant those seeds, and now when you’re home alone and in the middle of the night, your hormones are raging because you keep listening to this music that you don’t need to be listening to, and now the Enemy is just like, ‘Oh, it’s just this one time,’” Grey said. 

“We don’t realize that that music that we thought was no big deal, it was doing something to our spirit. Because what you constantly feed yourself, your body’s going to desire it.” 

….

“The Bible mentions God only has one standard for His children: holiness. So while people are recommending it, you have to understand that they are not trying to honor God,” said Grey. 

In 2019, then-Southern Baptist Convention President J.D. Greear warned in a podcast episode that masturbation “dangerous because it can be addictive.”

“It’s something that can start to almost re-wire your brain,” Greear said. “It can actually sabotage healthy sexual relationships because it takes sexual desire away from the way that God intended it, which is between two people, and turned it into sort of an auto-eroticism type of thing.”

— The Christian Post, Should Christians Masturbate? July 19, 2022

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: When Atheists Say You are a Hater and Bigot, Ignore Them, Even if You are a Hateful Bigot

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dr david tee

The first step in doing God’s work to fulfill his dream is to not fall victim to the labels and lies of the unbelieving world. When you tell people they are going to hell if they are unrepentant sinners be prepared to be called a hater and a bigot.

But names like that should roll off our backs. Telling the truth in love is not hatred nor is it bigotry. The truth exposes the hatred and bigotry on the unbelieving side as they do not want to hear it.

The people who do not want to repent of their sins will feel both emotions and more when they are excluded from paradise. They do not want to follow the standards of right and wrong, etc., yet they accuse the believer of being hate-filled and bigots.

We are just the messenger letting them know what is right and what is wrong. If they do not like it, it is not our responsibility. They have had their equal opportunity to be saved and they have rejected it. Their decisions are all on their shoulders.

— Fake Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, TheologyArcheology: A Site for the Glory of God, There is Still Work to Be Done, July 31, 2022

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Transgender People Do Not Exist Cuz the Bible Says They Don’t

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andrew t walker

This is where the true debate resides. Christianity views reality through the lens of Scripture, which speaks of male and female as beings defined by their anatomical and reproductive organization (Genesis 1:26–28). Hormones or surgery cannot override the underlying realities of our genetic structure. If culture tries to define male and female apart from anatomy and reproductive organization, male and female become fluid, absurd categories. Hence where we are as a culture.

The transgender worldview is an active thwarting of one’s nature. It is akin to defying limits or swimming upstream against a current: you might try, but eventually limitations and the strength of the current are going to sweep you up against your will.

This reality of nature leads to one of the most important truths: actual transgenderism does not exist. Sure, there are people who may have genuine confusion over their “gender identity” (a concept itself riddled with problems), but the idea that there are persons truly “trapped” in the wrong body is false. Scripture does not allow for such a dualism between the body and the “self.

— Andrew T. Walker is Associate Professor of Christian Ethics at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Desiring God, The Transgender Fantasy, July 23, 2022

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Two Questions from an Evangelical Man

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i have a question

I recently received an email from an Evangelical man named Jason. His email was quite verbose, so I’ve edited it for clarity. Jason only read a handful of posts before contacting me.

Mr. Gerencser, I have spent time reading through some of your posts. I won’t claim to have read enough of these to have a great understanding of your views or of this blog/site. What I will claim, is that I am a born-again Evangelical Christian who feels that perhaps you might be interested in something different than what you’ve labeled as your usual detractors’ intentions or comments, etc. I get it. You’ve got a lot of history both in the faith, and since leaving it. I won’t question the path you took as you’ve made it clear how you react to folks like me doing so.

….

In one of your posts, it stood out to me that you seem to believe that you should be respectful of others’ journeys in struggling with their faith — or questioning of it, regardless of their journey’s outcome — and that you and others whom frequent this site can offer assistance through your/their writings to perhaps ease some of the burdens in their minds.

….

So, my question — or suggestion, depending on how you look at it — is this: would you consider going the other way….deliberately? What I mean to suggest is, given your experiences with your own path, and your intimate knowledge of the faith and of Churches in general, as well as the fact that every person within that faith is still a flawed human being, would you consider offering help to people who want to remain as Christians (or even other faiths) or to “convert” as it were FROM atheism or agnosticism, etc., with the goal of helping people who are within that faith (or potentially-future believers) to be fully open and frank about the questions they have, including the contradictions they observe within the people of the Church (or other faith group). In other words, would you be open to facilitating a way to help people find what I would call the true Jesus, that is, the Jesus who does not discriminate nor hates nor holds people accountable for things beyond their control? Would you — as an outsider, as it were — help the Church to become what it really ought to be, as a place where God demonstates genuine love and compassion through it’s members while also being openly self-aware and willing to face up to the problems that both individual members as well as whole congregations ought to deal with?

Jason asks:

Would you consider offering help to people who want to remain as Christians (or even other faiths) or to “convert” as it were FROM atheism or agnosticism, etc., with the goal of helping people who are within that faith (or potentially-future believers) to be fully open and frank about the questions they have, including the contradictions they observe within the people of the Church (or other faith group). In other words, would you be open to facilitating a way to help people find what I would call the true Jesus, that is, the Jesus who does not discriminate nor hates nor holds people accountable for things beyond their control?

My express purpose over the past fifteen years has been to help people who have doubts and questions about Christianity or who have left the faith altogether. Most of the people I interact with are present or former Evangelicals. This is not surprising since I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years and a pastor for twenty-five years. Evangelicalism is what I know, so it’s the focus of my writing. That doesn’t mean, of course, that every reader of this blog is an ex-Evangelical. A sizeable percentage of readers are practicing Evangelicals, progressive/liberal Christians, or former practitioners of a variety of religious/spiritual faiths. And yes, a minority of readers are atheists/agnostics who have never been religious.

Jason wants to know if I would be willing to help people with questions or doubts move TOWARD Christianity. If someone wants to remain a Christian, yet wants to get away from Evangelicalism, then, yes, I am more than happy to help them find a kinder, gentler form of faith. While I am an agnostic atheist, I am not an evangelizer for atheism. I am not an anti-theist, though I am certainly anti-Evangelical, anti-IFB, and anti-Mormon. I don’t hate religious people, nor do I hate all religions. I can hear atheist zealots screaming now! “I knew it! Bruce is not a true atheist.” Believe what you will, but we live in a world where most people have some sort of religious faith. They are family, friends, and neighbors. I am not willing (nor interested) in waging war with the human race. I know that atheists will always be a minority. We mistake the rise of NONES with the rise of atheism. Sure, the number of atheists is increasing, but most NONES are just indifferent toward religions. They might one day become atheists, but most NONES just want to live and let live.

I oppose any religion that teaches humans are broken (sinful) and in need of fixing (salvation). I oppose any religion that teaches children are sinners. I oppose any religion that teaches some people go to Heaven and other people go to Hell after they die. I oppose any religion that teaches anyone who doesn’t believe in their deity will be tortured in Hell for eternity. I oppose any religion that teaches patriarchalism. I oppose any religion that “others” people. I oppose any religion that teaches Bible literalism.

As you can see, I oppose most organized religions. Organized religions promote division, exclusivism, and sectarianism. Not all religions, but most. When it comes to Evangelicalism (in all its forms), I can’t think of any flavor of Evangelicalism that is not inherently harmful. I am of the opinion that Evangelicalism is, at best, cult-like. In its most virulent forms, Evangelicalism is a full-blown cult. The IFB church movement, in particular, is a cult (with few exceptions). Thus, I can’t in good conscience promote Evangelicalism. When dealing with Evangelicals, I give them this piece of advice: RUN! Evangelical beliefs and practices cause psychological harm and can cause, at times, physical harm. I can’t in good conscience encourage people to stay in Evangelical churches. At best, I encourage Evangelicals to seek out kinder, gentler expressions of faith. I am friends with Jim Brehler, the pastor of St John United Church of Christ in Defiance, Ohio. I have no problem encouraging locals to attend his church. That said, I don’t know of another local church that I can recommend to people looking to break free from Evangelicalism. I am sure they exist, I just don’t know about them. (And part of the problem is that a lot of the local mainline churches are aging, have terrible — and I mean terrible — music, and far too often are pastored by men trained in conservative theological colleges.)

As far as the “true Jesus” is concerned, how could we possibly know who that person is? Jesus left no writings behind. All we have are the words of unknown authors written years after their death. Besides, Jesus allegedly said some things that are problematic, especially his views on marriage, divorce, and human sexuality.

Every generation of Christians remakes Jesus (and God) in their own image. The Jesus of first century Palestine is very different from the plethora of American Jesuses today. Which Jesus, then, should we follow? Sure, the Bible contains some wonderful teachings attributed to Jesus. The world would be better served if Christians lived according to Jesus’s teachings in Matthew 5-7, the Sermon on the Mount. However, most of the New Testament contains the writings of the founder of Christianity, the Apostle Paul — a misogynistic man, if there ever was one. Paul’s writings, along with much of the Old Testament, are a millstone hung around the neck of modern Christians; filled with bigotry, misogyny, and violence. Richard Dawkins was right when he said:

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

Now, to Jason’s second question:

Would you — as an outsider, as it were — help the Church to become what it really ought to be, as a place where God demonstates genuine love and compassion through it’s members while also being openly self-aware and willing to face up to the problems that both individual members as well as whole congregations ought to deal with? Would you — as an outsider, as it were — help the Church to become what it really ought to be, as a place where God demonstates genuine love and compassion through it’s members while also being openly self-aware and willing to face up to the problems that both individual members as well as whole congregations ought to deal with?

What should the Christian church be? How do we know what the Christian church should be? I assume Jason thinks the Bible should be the standard by which we answer these questions. Of course, this leads to another question: whose interpretation of the Bible should we follow? There are countless Christianities, and as many interpretations as there are Christians. Referencing what I wrote several paragraphs before, what expression of Christian faith is kind, loving, and supportive of all people, regardless of who and what they are? Years ago, my wife and I attended 125+ churches. (Please see But Our Church is DIFFERENT!) While most of these churches were Evangelical-leaning, some were quite liberal. We didn’t find one church that was truly inclusive; a church that welcomed and accepted all comers. I am sure such churches exist, I just don’t know of any.

In the short term, I am more than happy to help churches become more friendly, loving, and inclusive. I am more than happy to challenge their Fundamentalist tendencies (Are Evangelicals Fundamentalists?). I want to do everything I can to lessen the psychological trauma that takes place in most Christian churches. Any pastor who tells congregants that they are broken and in need of fixing; that there is a Heaven to gain and a Hell to shun; that the Bible is an authoritative standard, by which to govern one’s life is materially harming people. And since these churches and pastors are causing harm, my goal is to further their demise. For example, the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement has caused horrible harm. It is a movement that is in numerical decline. It is my hope that the IFB church movement dies a quick death. In fact, I wish I would still be alive when it draws its last breath. I want to be the person holding a pillow over the face of its wheezing, dying body. And when it draws its last breath, I will say with countless others, AMEN!

Over the years, I have written articles for Christian blogs and publications. (Please see Advice for Young Pastors From an Ex-Evangelical Preacher.) I am more than happy to continue to do so. In the long term, long after I am dead, I envision a post-religion world; one where the principles of humanism rule supreme. Of course, it is likely climate change, nuclear war, or the Republican Party will destroy the world before that happens, but one can hope, right? I can envision a time when humans no longer need religion to explain their lives and the world around them; that religion will be viewed as a relic from our infant, ignorant past.

I hope I have adequately answered Jason’s questions. If not, I am sure he will let me know. 🙂

Saved by Reason,

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Saying It Out Loud

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guest post

Guest post by MJ Lisbeth

“I don’t think I believe in God anymore.”

She uttered those words in the way a kid might curse for the first time: as if she were looking over her shoulder, anticipating a rebuke, a slap in the face, or worse.  It’s the way I made two of the most important (at least, they seemed that way) declarations of my life: that I am bisexual and transgender.

And her face expressed the same kind of bewilderment and relief I felt after “coming out.”  She must have known that any retribution, punishment, or other negative reactions and other consequences for disavowing what she’d believed all of her life wouldn’t come from me.  Rather, she was probably thinking about the people—some of whom, like her mother, she loved dearly—who inculcated her with the faith she’d had all of her life and nurtured and supported her in other ways.

Like me, she was raised Roman Catholic and attended Catholic schools.  Also in common with me, the church was central to her upbringing because of her ethnic heritage (like mine, mostly) and the community in which she grew up. 

In other ways, though, she is about as different from me as one could be.  For one, she never left her social, ethnic, and economic milieu, always living in it, if in different neighborhoods of the city (New York) in which we were raised and which we call home. I have lived in small towns and rural areas, as well as urban areas, in New Jersey, California, and France.  I have traveled to about two dozen other countries; she has never left, and never really wanted to leave, the United States “except for Paris or London.”  Her formal education ended with a secretarial school; I hold a master’s degree and started a Ph.D.   And, perhaps more relevant to this essay, she has never been a part of any church or religion other than the one in which she was raised and, like most Catholics of her (and my) generation, never read the Bible, let alone studied theology.  I, on the other hand, have been part of an Evangelical Church (where I made a declaration that I would “devote my life to Christ” and led a Bible study), read some theology and explored, as a result of my short-lived marriage and my own quest for truth and meaning, other religious traditions. 

Oh, and her marriage was, perhaps, an even bigger contrast than other parts of her history to mine:  At age 19, she was wed to the man she met two years earlier and with whom she would remain until his death.  Along the way, they would have two daughters.  My marriage lasted the length of an American Presidential term and resulted in no progeny.

(Should I also mention that she has never ridden a bicycle—I am a lifelong cyclist– and cannot understand why anyone would want to hike, camp, climb or spend any time in the countryside of one of the world’s poorest countries, as I have? 

From what I’ve said so far, it might surprise you to hear that the woman I’ve described is my closest friend and confidante.  Her husband was also a close friend and, in some ways, as different from me as she is:  He earned his GED in the Army (into which he was drafted) and drove trucks for a living. Like her, he was raised Catholic, though in a different cultural tradition, and never left his social and economic roots.

So, you might wonder: How did they and I bond?  Well, twenty years ago next month, I moved next door to them.  As my now-former partner and I were carting my possessions into my new residence—and I was entering a new phase of my life—she struck up a brief conversation with me when I lugged one cat carrier, then another, into my new apartment.  Turns out, she volunteers with a local animal-rescue organization, from which she and her husband adopted several cats. 

A few days later, she asked me over for lunch.  I accepted, in part because I knew no one else in the neighborhood, but also because I knew, instinctively, that we “got” each other.  After that meal, I wept:  It reminded me of Sunday afternoons from my Italian-American childhood and French families who befriended me.  In other words, the food was complex but not complicated, made with love, or at least passion. In other words, it was a reflection of the people who made it.

I would share many more meals—including holiday repasts—with her, her husband and kids, grandkids, and friends, over the years.  Since her husband passed and her daughters and grandkids moved away, we have shared brunches, dinners, walks in local parks, and—this is less surprising than I expected—museum visits.  She and I share a passion for Auguste Rodin’s sculptures (especially “Je suis belle”).  As I came to know her, that love of hers is less contradictory than it seems:  She has no formal or academic training, but she understands, intuitively, a thing or two about life and love, death and loss.

Which, I believe, is why her expression of doubt about the god in which she had been raised to believe surprised me less than I thought it might.  She is a decade and a half older than I am and, because she gave birth to, and raised children, endured struggles that I will never understand.  But, more to the point, I had long suspected that she has an “inquiring mind” that “wanted to know.”  While she doesn’t express anger, resentment, or regret about her life, I can’t help but wonder whether her wish to know—or more important, to understand—was suppressed because she was a girl in the environment in which she grew up and because she wasn’t a “good student”—which, I know all too well, has absolutely nothing to do with being intelligent or inquisitive, let alone having any sort of integrity. 

I don’t try to steer her toward or away from believing or not believing. (For that matter, I doubt that I can so influence her.)   All I can do is to be present for her, as she has been for me.  Whatever she decides—or whether or not she decides—I can understand.  I am simply happy that she is asking questions and thinking for herself.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Understanding Our Evangelical Past Through the Lenses of Indoctrination and Conditioning

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religious indoctrination

Thousands of the readers of this blog are former Evangelicals; devout Christians who devoted their lives to God and the church; people who were saved, sanctified, Holy Ghost-filled followers of Jesus. While many of these people have left Christianity altogether, others have tried to find ways to hang onto their faith. Regardless of where they are presently, most of them struggle as they try to reconcile their Evangelical past, with its attendant beliefs, practices, and behaviors, with the people they have now become. I know for me personally, when I look at my past as an Evangelical pastor and a proponent of strict patriarchalism, I have a hard time reconciling my two very different lives. I struggle with guilt over my past life; the things I said and did. I was abusive, arrogant, and self-righteous. I psychologically, and, at times, physically harmed my wife, our six children, and the people who lovingly called me “preacher.” A decade of counseling hasn’t been able to rid me of the guilt I feel over the past. I suspect many of you know exactly what I am talking about.

The question I am focused on these days is why? Why did I become the man, husband, father, and preacher that I did? While the answers to this question are complex, I have concluded that my beliefs and behavior as an Evangelical husband, father, and preacher can be traced back to indoctrination and conditioning. I was raised in an Evangelical home, attended Evangelical churches for fifty years, trained for the ministry at an Evangelical college, married an Evangelical pastor’s daughter, and spent twenty-five years of my life pastoring Evangelical churches. How could I have not turned out exactly as I did? I was surrounded by family, preachers, and professors who reinforced my beliefs; beliefs that were rarely, if ever, challenged. The indoctrination and conditioning were such that I never doubted or questioned my beliefs. It is a miracle that my wife and I are atheists today. Everything militated against a loss of faith, yet somehow, some way, questions and doubts crept in. I know that it is rare for someone like me to deconvert. Am I special? Nope. If anything I’m lucky. By all accounts, I should still be preaching the gospel, winning souls, and pastoring an Evangelical church. Yet, here I am, a godless heathen. Go figure. 🙂

When I interact with devout Evangelicals on this site, I try to remember that I was once just like them. I know they have a hard time believing this to be true, but I can confidently say that had they known me in the 1980s or 1990s they would have considered me a man of God, a faithful preacher of the good news. They might even have joined my church.

I find myself in a somewhat unique position. I have been on both sides of aisle: devout Evangelical pastor, out-and-proud atheist. This allows me to have a perspective other people may not have. Many of you have similar unique perspectives. Hopefully, these experiences give us compassion for people who are still immersed in Evangelicalism. “Such were some of you,” the Bible says. It’s easy to become annoyed and irritated by Evangelical zealots. I know I have an increasingly short temper with God’s chosen ones. I have to remind myself, “Bruce you were once just like them. Be patient. Be kind. Be that still small voice in their heads.”

Religious indoctrination and conditioning cause untold heartache and harm. For those of us who have been delivered from Evangelicalism, we must give the Evangelicals we interact with the space to see the “light.” That’s not to say that some Evangelicals aren’t so deeply corrupted that it’s impossible to reach them. No amount of interaction with them will change their minds. The Revival Fires, Derrick Thiessens, and Kent Hovinds of the world are too far gone. They have committed the unpardonable sin. There’s no hope for them. We must be careful, however, to not treat other Evangelicals as we do Revival Fires, Thiessen, and Hovind. To quote the Apostle Paul, we must become all things to all men, so that by all means we might save some. If our goal is to reach Evangelicals who have been deeply indoctrinated and conditioned, we must be loving, patient, and kind. We must, even when they don’t, evidence the fruit of the Spirit in our godforsaken lives — love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Dr. David Tee Continues to Rage-Blog at Ben Berwick and Bruce Gerencser

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dr david tee

Fake Dr. David Tee, whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen, is upset over Ben Berwick and me quoting his words. Somehow, some way, we are mispresenting him by quoting from his blog posts. Both Ben and I link to his posts so our readers can read our Tee quotes in context. We’ve yet to have anyone except Thiessen say that we have mispresented or distorted his words. Thiessen has yet to learn that when you say things in public, somebody is going to quote you or repeat what you said. I own every word I write. When I am not clear, I explain and clarify. But, when I say something that offends someone, I don’t run from my words. If Thiessen doesn’t want to be held accountable for what he says, I suggest that he stop saying nasty, hateful, inflammatory stuff.

Part of the problem is that Theissen has a god complex. He is not special in this regard. When a man thinks that he is supernaturally called by a supernatural God to preach supernatural sermons, is it any surprise that he thinks he is God, or at the very least, God-adjacent? I previously mentioned that Theissen feels Ben and I are persecuting him. He even said that he was just like Jesus standing silent before the Sanhedrin. When a person with intimate knowledge about Theissen’s past shares verifiable evidence for troubling past behavior, Theissen says nothing. Why? He’s above the fray, as God is. God doesn’t answer his critics and neither does Thiessen. Just today, Theissen said:

We never said we were the moral authority on this issue. We did say that GOD is and we write his words, not ours. Ours are not inspired but they are based on inspired words. So the problem BG and MM have is not with us but with God and his ways.

Need I say more?

Theissen continues to defend his belief that a ten-year-old (or even a five-year-old) rape victim should be FORCED to carry her fetus to term. Thiessen shows a callous disregard for the welfare of the girl. All that matters is his warped interpretation of the Bible. Theissen has written post after post defending his position. He’s done the same with his continued defense of rapists, child molesters, and abusers. It seems that his moral compass is broken. No amount of pushback from Ben or me has changed Thiessen’s mind. Why? We are atheists (though Ben has never claimed to be an atheist). Atheists have nothing to offer the human race. Our words should be ignored. Thus, he makes no attempt to engage our challenges. Instead, Theissen attacks us personally, disparaging our character and slandering our good names. Why does he behave this way? He’s “God,” so he can say and do whatever he wants.

Theissen provides a good example of this in his latest diatribe, No Rational, Logical or Evidence Filled Arguments:

We have 2 main detractors [Ben Berwick and Bruce Gerencser] that like reading our website. They can’t seem to get enough of our content. When we say something they do not like, their websites are filled with their ‘opposing’ points of view.

We know about them because they make sure they link to our articles in their content. What we have found is that despite their demands that Christians present rational, logical, and evidence-filled (their definitions, of course), content in rebuttal to their arguments, these detractors do not do the same thing.

They would rather use innuendo, lies, misleading comments, and false declarations as if they are an authority.

….

His words imply something we never said, implied, or hinted at. BG misleads his readers YET not one word is found in either article that presents a rational, logical, and evidence-filled opposing view.

He has to stoop to insults, inferences, and clever wording to get his readers to think negatively about us and our content. MM is just the same.

….

Nothing rational there or even logical. He resorts to name calling, abusive language, and lies and he continues to try to read our minds. Of course, he makes the excuse of not presenting anything rational, logical, or evidence-filled by insulting us and using that as justification for his failure to make his point.

Both MM and BG like to attack the messenger so they do not have to deal with the truth.

….

MM & BG just want negative fodder to continue to attack us in their own sinful ways. They won’t be rational. logical or even produce evidence to support their views. Everything they have written or alluded to points to the validity and truthfulness of our content.

We never said we were the moral authority on this issue. We did say that GOD is and we write his words, not ours. Ours are not inspired but they are based on inspired words. So the problem BG and MM have is not with us but with God and his ways.

….

They do not like those ways, so they advocate for everything sinful. Their denial of both God and sin just shows that their arguments are never rational,. logical or even evidenced-filled. They are not honest either.

Their arguments are personally based,  subjective and according to their own desires and thoughts. Unbelievers are never rational, logical, or evidence-based because they dismiss the truth in favor of their own deceived opinions.

They are not our enemy, but the evil in and behind them are. We do not wish them ill-will and are saddened that they hold onto evil in spite of hearing the truth. We also do not spread misinformation, or lies and do other things to them as they do to us.

Our actions prove we are more moral than they can ever hope to be.

dr david tee 2

Here’s my challenge to Derrick Thomas Thiessen. Want to debate the issues, Derrick? I will gladly debate you on YouTube. I will make the debate available on my YouTube channel. All that I ask is that you use your real name and visage. No hiding behind fake names and avatars. Want to defend your views on the Bible, abortion, and defending child molesters? I will gladly provide you with a forum to do so. I am not inclined to continue this back and forth via blog posts. I will respond if you personally attack me, but outside of that, I am content to leave you to your own devices.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

True Christianity: David Tee, Kent Hovind, Revival Fires, and Others Like Them are not Outliers

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christians and hate

If I am going to write about Evangelicalism and the various players within the sect, I must read their blogs and news sites, watch their YouTube and Tiktok videos, and peruse their social media posts. I can’t accurately represent Evangelicalism in my writing if I don’t do these things. Believe me, I would rather not do so. Who wants to wade in a septic tank every day, right?

While there is a lot of diversity within the Evangelical tent, there are commonalities belief-wise and practice-wise across the Evangelical spectrum. It is not uncommon to hear “nice” Evangelicals say that people such as Fake Dr. David Tee (whose real name is Derrick Thomas Thiessen), thrice divorced felon Fake Dr. Kent Hovind, and Revival Fires are outliers; that they are not representatives of Evangelicals as a whole. While these men are hateful, nasty, self-righteous bullies — certainly not followers of Jesus’ teachings in the Sermon on the Mount, are they really outliers? Are their beliefs atypical for Evangelicals? Sadly, the answer is no. Their beliefs are normative within Evangelicalism. Based on my years of experience and observation, I know that Evangelicals are generally hateful, bigoted, and narrow-minded. Oh, many of them have big smiles and will shower you with love, but when you carefully examine their beliefs you find hate, bigotry, and closed-mindedness — in Christian love, of course.

Derrick Thiessen, Kent Hovind, Revival Fires, and others like them lack impulse control. They tend to just say whatever is on their addled minds. They don’t care how their words are received or whether they might cause harm. These so-called men of God say they speak on the Christian God’s behalf; that they are his mouthpieces. Other Evangelicals have mastered controlling their speech — in public, at least. That’s why you need to carefully examine their beliefs, or better yet, listen to what they say to their congregations when they think no one is listening.

I have heard scores of Evangelical pastors, evangelists, and missionaries preach over the years. Before the advent of the Internet, these preachers were insulated from accountability for what they said during their sermons. I preached 4,000+ sermons over the course of twenty-five years. Roughly half of those sermons were recorded on cassette tapes. As far as I know, none of those tapes survive. I have asked former members if they have any of my sermon tapes, but so far none have been found. I operated a tape lending library called the CHARIS Tape Library. Hundreds and hundreds of tapes were sent to people. As far as I know, none of those tapes survive. I suspect the tapes were either discarded or turned into Metallica mix tapes. Thus, all the hateful, nasty things I said in my sermons are lost to antiquity. For a number of years, I published a newsletter titled The Sovereign Grace Reporter. This newsletter was sent out to hundreds of people throughout the United States. Much like the aforementioned tapes, no copies of the SGR survive. I used to have hundreds of my preaching tapes and other memorabilia from my ministerial career, but in a moment of deep depression in the early 2000s, I piled these things in our backyard, poured gasoline on them, and lit a match. In a moment, twenty+ years of memories went up in smoke. While it felt good at the time, I regret doing so. (Please see Short Stories: The Night I Set My Life on Fire.)

I am insulated from my past words. All readers have to go on is my recollections. Readers will just have to take my word for it: Pastor Bruce Gerencser was a winsome, kind preacher, but he also had hateful, bigoted beliefs; beliefs he wasn’t afraid to verbalize from the pulpit.

It’s harder for Evangelical preachers to hide these days. When two Independent Fundamentalist Baptists (IFB) mentioned me in their sermons, I found out about it. There just so happened to be people in their services who knew me. I have spies everywhere. 🙂 Everyone has a smartphone. Increasingly, Evangelical churches videotape their services. While preachers likely think that only like-minded people are listening, they can’t stop people like me from listening to their screeds, harangues, and attacks on people different from them. The ugliness is there for all to see if people are willing to pay attention.

Preachers such as Theissen, Hovind, and Revival Fires are quite happy to advertise their hate and bigotry for all to see. While many Evangelical preachers are more careful with their words, make no mistake, hatred and bigotry are common, regardless of the clothes they are dressed in. Yes, I know of kind, thoughtful Evangelicals, but all they are is the exception that proves the rule. They are the outliers, not Theissen, Hovind, and Revival Fires.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Christians Say the Darnedest Things: Why Have Sex with Unbelief When You Can Have Sex with Jesus

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sexy jesus

Unbelief is essentially your spiritual mistress. And like any mistress, she is untrustworthy and unfaithful. You are not her only lover; not by a long shot. Your mistress gives herself to anyone who will join her in rejecting the Messiah.

God commands you to break off your sinful relationship with your mistress of unbelief. Tell her the affair is over. Leave her once and for all. Turn to God in repentance and trust in the sacrifice that Jesus made on your behalf when he died for your sins on the cross. You owe him everything. You owe your mistress nothing. 

And besides, your mistress does not care about you in the slightest. She is not even a person. She is simply a perspective that you happen to find alluring. You have been seduced by her mind as you have bought into her enticing definition of personal freedom.

She whispers to you:

“Be your own person. Forget about God and all that mumbo jumbo about sin and the cross and salvation. You deserve to be free of any interference from God. Heaven and Hell are merely make-believe concepts used to control weak people. You, however, are strong, independent and enlightened.” 

One lie after the other, and so far, you have taken the bait as evidenced by your persistent unbelief and refusal to accept Jesus as your Savior. Your infatuation with your mistress will disappear once you end the affair. 

….

Do you realize that her tantalizing lies come with strings attached? These strings ultimately drag souls into far greater misery than you can even imagine. Affairs never end well, but the consequences of this particular affair take things to a whole other level. Hell is a real place in a different realm and is a deep dark pit of never-ending agony and despair. (Luke 16:19-31)

….

Why continue to lust after your mistress when the One who truly loves your soul is willing to forgive your unfaithfulness to him and give you peace and joy today and forever? Did your mistress suffer hours of agony on a cross to pay for your sins? Of course not. A real person suffered and died for your sins so that you can go to Heaven when you die. Christ loves you, but he will not force you to receive his love, forgiveness and salvation.

You get to make the choice. Faith in Jesus, or unbelief? Truth or spiritual lies? Heaven or Hell? No man can serve two masters, just like no man can love both his wife and his mistress.

You should be mad at your spiritual mistress because of how badly she has corrupted your soul. Unbelief is a dark and shady character. I suppose this is one reason you feel drawn to her. You find her seductive words of unbelief exhilarating in some twisted way. But one day she will leave you. And you will be left with nothing.

….

You would be smart to have the awkward discussion with your mistress immediately and break off that doomed relationship. After all, she doesn’t care about you, but Christ does. You are simply under her spell. Your affair has taken you far from God.

If this sounds ridiculous to you, it is only because your mistress is blinding you from the truth. You tell yourself you love her, but even that is a lie. If you end up in Hell, you will hate what your mistress did to your soul. And yet you will realize that you are fully responsible for your eternal sentence. You will finally come to see that it was never about love; it was always about lust. 

Unbelief is rooted in spiritual lust. This intense longing to be the captain of your soul resists submitting yourself to the rightful owner of your soul, the Lord Jesus Christ. 

Christian faith, on the other hand, is rooted in God’s love in sending his only Son to be our Savior from sin. (John 3:16) True and lasting freedom can only be found in a loving and faithful relationship with Jesus Christ. 

I hope you will decide today to end your affair with unbelief.   

….

So be honest. What has unbelief ever done for you? And it only gets worse the longer you stay in that tawdry relationship. Sure it may be humiliating for you to say goodbye to your mistress, but in the words of Oliver Markus: “A horrible end is better than endless horror.”

— Dan Delzell, pastor of Redeemer Lutheran Church in Papillion, Nebraska, The Christian Post, Why you should end your affair with unbelief, July 29, 2022

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.

Bruce, How Did You Deal with Your Emotions as You Deconverted?

10 Comments
i have a question

Recently, a reader named Theresa asked:

Would you please discuss, or please point me to where you discuss, how you dealt/deal with your emotions and conflicts as you were deconverting? My life has been much tamer than yours, yet it’s revolved in a HUGE part around church and faith and belief, and so on.

I’ve been questioning for awhile, but 2019 was an especially bad year, including three huge shakeups in my life, greatly impacting my Christian relationships. It’s all a really long story, one I’m not comfortable sharing with strangers.

I feel sometimes like I’m walking a tightrope, trying to balance or wondering if I should do something now to prepare for the future. For example, I am expected to take over my Mom’s special needs adults class when she passes – not for years yet, hopefully. I love the members, we’re all family – but it will be my chance to cut ties with the church and run.

So much of life now is like this. I don’t have clarity or guidance; and everyone I know wants me to remain as I am. I’ve been a Christian for 45 years +, and taught in one capacity or another for most of that, up until 2019, one of the blindsiding betrayals I went through. I have felt pulls elsewhere as I was growing up, but squashed them, and sometimes I wonder …

I just don’t know how to handle things sometimes. I’ve been in limbo for quite awhile, spiritually and otherwise, and it doesn’t feel good or right to feel this way this much anymore.

Specifically, Theresa asked:

How [did] you dealt/deal with your emotions and conflicts as you were deconverting?

Theresa has been involved with Christianity for over forty-five years. She’s has a lifetime of church experiences and friendships. Based on her comment, Theresa is not a passive or cultural Christian. She’s actively involved in her church; a teacher for decades. It’s evident, at least to me, that she deeply cares about her church family, including her mother who attends the same church. Yet, she has serious doubts and questions about Christianity and is considering an exit from her church. Internally debating these issues has caused psychological angst, leading to emotional unrest.

For those of us who were lifelong followers of Jesus before we deconverted, Theresa’s story has a familiar feel. I was part of the Evangelical church for fifty years, and a pastor for twenty-five years. Much like Theresa, I was deeply immersed in the machinations of the church. I deeply loved God, the ministry, and the people I pastored. I fully expected to spend my entire life preaching the gospel, saving souls, and ministering to both the saved and the lost. My exit story was one where I would be preaching, and as I was emphasizing the certainty of death, drop dead in the pulpit. Talk about a powerful sermon illustration. 🙂 Alas, my faith died before I did. On the last Sunday in November 2008, I walked out of the doors of the Ney United Methodist Church, never to return. Several months later, I sent out my infamous letter, Dear Family, Friends, and Former Parishioners, declaring that I was no longer a Christian.

For the longest time, wanting to fend off people saying I left Christianity due to some sort of “hurt,” I focused on the intellectual reasons I deconverted. I left Christianity because I no longer believed its central claims about Jesus and the Bible. While I could have continued to play the game, I have never been willing to “fake it until you make it.” When I concluded that Christianity was built upon a foundation of untruths, I felt duty bound to share my story. This, of course, led to the birth of this blog.

Over the years, I have tried to share not only the intellectual reasons I deconverted, but also the psychological struggles I’ve experienced, even to this day. Think about being married for fifty years, having children and grandchildren, and building a life together with your significant other. Yet, you began to have doubts about your relationship and the prospect of your future together. You sat down and made a list of things you liked and disliked about your spouse and reasons why you should stay or go. You weighed all the intellectual reasons for staying or leaving, concluding that it was time for you to end your marriage. You spent countless hours wrestling with your emotions, weeping over what divorce would cause not only to yourself but also to your spouse. Despite your psychological travails, you knew intellectually that divorce was the right thing to do. And so you walked away. While you are now “free,” you still struggle with thoughts about the past. “Did I make the right decision?” “OMG, what have I done?” “Now what?”

So it is for people who were married to Jesus, the church, and the ministry for years. We rightly concluded that Christianity could not withstand rational, intellectual challenge, so we decided to divorce. What we are left with, then, is the psychological baggage that comes with making such a momentous decision. And don’t let anyone tell you differently. Walking away from Christianity is hard (and painful), at least it was for me. Deconverting was, by far, the hardest decision I have ever made in my sixty-five years of life. My whole life changed overnight, including my relationships with my wife and our six children. In short order, I lost everything that was foundational to my life, including lifelong friends. I was forced, at the age of fifty, to begin anew.

Through this process, I have faced a plethora of psychological struggles. So much so that I have been seeing a secular counselor for over a decade. Counseling has been an essential part of the healing process for me. Evangelicalism caused me harm, both physically and emotionally. Worse yet, I struggle with the fact that not only was I a victim, but I was also a victimizer. I materially caused harm to my wife, children, and the people who lovingly called me “preacher.”

Theresa’s journey is her own. I have always been careful to not set myself up as an example of the path to follow. Each of us must weigh our beliefs carefully and decide accordingly. Not every road leads to atheism. Some people find resting places where they are able to hang on to some sort of religious faith. Others cannot. I encourage people to meet truth in the middle of the road. Don’t back up or try to go around truth. Do your homework. Read lots of books. Make sure you intellectually know WHY you no longer believe.

Once the intellectual reasons for deconverting are resolved, there’s still psychological baggage to deal with. It’s much harder to reason away feelings. The question that must be asked and answered is this: why do I have these feelings? Typically, fear is the primary reason for emotional turmoil. “What if I am wrong?” Fear of offending God or going to Hell lurks in the shadows. Pressure from pastors, family members, and fellow church members — who cannot or will not understand and appreciate your journey — only add to your emotional unrest. How, then, should we handle the emotional aspects of deconversion?

First, seek out people who have walked a similar path. This blog primarily exists to help those who have doubts or questions about Christianity or who have walked away from the faith. I have found that telling my story is one of the best ways I can help others.

Second, find a vehicle by which you can express your struggles. Start journaling, or better yet, start blogging. I have found writing to be cathartic, a way for me to work through my questions, doubts, and feelings. I have long encouraged people to write guest posts for this site. Telling your story, even anonymously, can be liberating.

Third, find someone you can confide in. This is not easy, especially when everyone around you still believes. That’s why my inbox is always open. I am not a counselor, but I am a good listener. And there are other people on this site who are more than willing to help people along the way. The goal is not to convert people to atheism as much as it is to lend a helping hand to people as they walk their journey through life.

Fourth, I strongly encourage people to seek out help from a competent counselor. Not a religious counselor; not a pastor; a secular counselor trained in cognitive behavioral therapy. Talking to a disinterested third party can be quite helpful as you try to unpack your religious past. Religion can and does cause trauma and harm. People often grossly underestimate the harm caused by their past religious experiences and beliefs. I know I did. It was only recently, ten years in, that my counselor was able to get me to see how much trauma I’ve had in my life and how that trauma deeply marred and scarred my life and the relationships I have with my family. For the longest time, I believed that trauma was what happened to other people, not me. It wasn’t until I made a list of the traumatic experiences in my life that I finally understood some of my psychological struggles.

What advice would you give to Theresa? Please share your thoughtful advice in the comment section.

Bruce Gerencser, 68, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 47 years. He and his wife have six grown children and sixteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.

Your comments are welcome and appreciated. All first-time comments are moderated. Please read the commenting rules before commenting.

You can email Bruce via the Contact Form.