My letters to the editor of the Defiance Crescent-News often result in local Christians venting their spleen in my direction. I have no doubt that my recent letter about creationism will agitate the faithful, resulting in a new spate of letters denouncing evolution and atheism. Sometimes, letter writers make things personal. For example, here is a comment left by a local resident on the Crescent-News website:
Text:
Only problem that you have Gerencser is that you have yet to prove evolution is fact or disprove that there is a deity. So you really dont know any more then anyone else.. And isnt it so strange that you claim to be a minister from a diploma mill in Washington state and yet this is how you respond? Hows that working out for you since Ohio does not recognize this diploma mill? Hope you have not tried to marry anyone as the JAG of Ohio would not look too pleased if you did. Anonymous3371
I have a good idea who this asshole is, but since I don’t know for sure, I will refrain from attaching their name to this comment. If you would like to read other Christian responses to my letters to the editor, please check out the new Local Response Page. This page is currently 12,000 words long. I will continue to add to it anytime there is a letter to the editor that mentions me by name. You can find all of my letters to the editor here.
Now, about the scurrilous allegations in the aforementioned comment.
On July 7, 2013, a local Fundamentalist Christian by the name of Daniel Gray wrote:
Bruce Gerencser should use facts in his letters. His latest rant is so full of errors as to make his point completely obtuse. Here are a few examples…
…The fact that Gerencser can marry anyone is laughable. He received his claimed ministerial credentials by professing a faith in a deity and swearing to follow that religions teachings. So unless he does so, then his authority to marry anyone under the same is null and void. Anyone he marries could actually find that they are not and never have been married. And last, the only way to change our Constitution is by a constitutional amendment…
…History and facts yet again destroy the views of Gerencser. He should be used to that by now.
Here’s my response to Gray:
This letter is my brief response to Daniel Gray’s recent letter to the editor.
Gray continues to paint me as a liar, a deceiver, immoral, and an all-round bad person. Gray does not know me personally, so I am not sure how he comes to the conclusions he does about me. I have never made one of my letters personal, yet Daniel Gray and a few other letter writers think it is okay to attack my character and suggest that I am not a good person.
As a public figure, I know I must endure such attacks, but I wish my critics would focus on the issues rather than the person. If they would like to have a public discussion on these issues, I am quite willing to participate in any public forum they put together.
On July 21, 2013, I wrote another letter to the Defiance Crescent-News stating:
For the third time Gray suggests that I am not legally able to marry people and that anyone married by me is in danger of having their marriage invalidated. Gray seems to not understand the legal requirements for being licensed to marry people in Ohio. I meet all the statutory requirements and I am duly licensed to marry people in Ohio. Anyone can verify this by doing a ministerial license search on the Ohio Secretary of state’s website.
On August 25 , 2013, fellow shit stirrer Willy Pack, came to my defense:
…Our secular government guarantees all of its citizens freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Fundamentalists, however, have made many clumsy attempts aimed at silencing Mr. Gerencser through intimidation and denigration.
Can anyone doubt that if they had the power of past ages, they would summon him before the court of the Inquisition? They all seem to be vying for the position of head inquisitor. What would be his crime other than not sharing their beliefs and daring to say so publicly? Are they really that intolerant of others’ beliefs or just afraid their beliefs cannot stand up to a little scrutiny?
With all of the different religions, denominations and sects on this planet, one thing is for certain: We are all going to hell according to somebody’s religion.
Once again, let me provide proof of my ordination and my legal right to perform weddings in the state of Ohio:
Bruce Gerencser Ordination, Emmanuel Baptist Church, Buckeye Lake, Ohio April 2, 1983
Bruce Gerencser, Ohio License to Marry, May 2,1983
Bruce Gerencser, Universal Life Ordination, March 15, 2011
Bruce Gerencser, Ohio License to Marry, March 22, 2011
And here’s the final proof, straight from the Ohio Secretary of State’s Minister Licensing database:
Bruce Gerencser, Ohio Secretary of State Minister Licensing Database
I originally publicly posted these credentials in a January 23, 2015 post titled, Bruce Gerencser, The Ney, Ohio Atheist. Since this post, I have added ANOTHER ordination:
The charge that I have a degree from a Washington state diploma mill is absurd. I attended Midwestern Baptist College from 1976-1979. I was an average student who worked a full-time job, attended church three times a week, ran a bus route, and preached at a drug rehab center while attending college. Need proof?
What’s next? Proof that I am circumcised? Proof that I am married, have six children, and eleven grandchildren? Sadly, some local Christians have no shame. They are quite willing to smear me in public if it means it will make me look bad or cause others to question my credibility.
To Daniel Gray, Anonymous3371, and anyone else who seems to be obsessed with lying about me? I will let Mikey Wilson speak for me:
….seems to me like somebody needs to find more things to do to fill up their day. I suggest reading a book. A NON FICTION book!
Who has time for shit like that? Really!
It amazes me that not sharing someone’s beliefs can be so controversial. I can understand it within families, one reason I’m not out as an atheist to my family. But complete strangers worrying about what you believe? Jesus H Christ on a sidecar, as my grandpa used to say.
And love the ‘Church of the Latter-Day Dude’. My kind of church, I’m sure.
What better way to shut someone up than to besmirch their character. That’s why I push back. I refuse to let them marginalize my voice. I know I speak for local nonbelievers who cannot publicly say they are not part of the Jesus Club. I’ve had several business owners tell me it would ruin their business if the public knew they weren’t a Christian. Three counties in this area are among the top ten most religious counties in Ohio. It is what it is…..??
So this is Exhibit A? B? …L? M? N? O? P?…. W? X? Y? Z? AA? AB?… of why fundamentalism sucks. What exhibit are we up to now anyway, Bruce? Sheesh. I do love that Church of the Latter-Day Dude! I got ordained in the ULC too but I have no desire to do marriages and I think I put my credentials in a filing cabinet. I think the laws are little bit more relaxed here in Texas. Seriously, fundamentalism can’t die out fast enough when its followers act like this. I’m pretty laid back, but you’re handling this better than I would.
Most of the time I consider it a badge of honor. The local newspaper is filled with letters from Christians decrying evolution, homosexuality, abortion, atheism, secularism, etc. There are three writers, including me, who rebut their letters. Are we making a difference? I think so. I’ve heard from enough locals to know that there are other nonbelievers in the area. I’ve even heard from several Christian (liberal) pastors who are embarrassed by their tribe’s letters to the editor.
That’s good at least! I am sure you are helping. And I love your blog.
I notice the correspondent opens with that favourite old chestnut of the creationist nutcases, that ‘you’ haven’t proved evolution. Actually evolution was proved as an established fact long, long ago, but it depends on your definition of ‘proof’.
It is possibly only in the area of pure mathematics that genuine proof is available, for example proving Pythagoras’ theorem, but even then you depend on ‘axioms’ (generally agreed basic assumptions). Elsewhere in life we use the word ‘proof’ rather misleadingly, in that we mean a preponderance of evidence. In a court of law absolute proof is accepted as impossible so the burden on the prosecution in criminal trials is beyond ‘reasonable’ doubt, not beyond ‘all’ doubt. So convicted criminals are only ever almost certainly guilty, very seldom guilty with absolute certainty, because that’s the best a decent system can achieve.
Evolution has a weight of supporting evidence that long since exceeded the burden of proof required to convict criminals. So if evolution is to be challenged then there would have to be a very strong and convincing appeal based on available evidence. The starting point would have to be to actually understand the evidence that presently exists supporting evolution, and that’s where creationists have a problem. They don’t understand evolution, don’t understand the evidence, and so have to lamely claim ‘there’s no evidence for evolution’. Sorry, but just because you don’t know about it, or don’t understand it, doesn’t mean there isn’t any.
“Evolution has a weight of supporting evidence that long since exceeded the burden of proof required to convict criminals.”
The courts you refer to mean nothing to those hearing voices. They are but a shadow of true justice. When Jesus returns© all will be revealed and perfect justice will show that evolution is imperfect.
Okay? Is that so hard to comprehend? (Of course if Jesus does not return, it only proves that he is still on his way.) Wicked atheists are so ignorant.
“Sorry, but just because you don’t know about it, or don’t understand it, doesn’t mean there isn’t any.” You see this! The writer is speaking of God here and thinks he is speaking of evolution. God controls everything from behind the curtain. Even the atheist’s words become sermons of praise!
The great Billy Graham used to use a lawyer-tune at his altar call,
“Just as I am, without one plea…”
Not even lawyers can talk their way out of GOD.
(You can’t know the Bible is true from cover to cover until you know the Bible is true cover to cover because the Bible is true cover to cover….dotdotdot)
I’m not sure if it’s just coincidence but I have three times now in different platforms got on to debating evolution. Each time I follow the same tactic, allowing the creationist to fall into the usual traps (not that they realise they’re falling into them), but waiting until they say ‘show me the evidence’. That’s when I ask them to explain certain things; primarily vestiges, atavisms, bad design, and biogeographical diversity. I found that if I mucked about piecemeal they’d pick things off; they’ve been primed to deal with bad design, and the fossil record, for example. But when I hit them with things they have never even heard of they go quiet. Not once (in just three cases, admittedly) have I heard further when I have used this approach.
Presumably they go back to report to the relevant pastor who says I’m an emissary of Satan and to have nothing more to do with me.
I even called the Secretary of State about my new ordination. They made it very clear that they make no judgments concerning what is or isn’t a legitimate religion or ordination.
This particular critic regularly changes his “facts” about Bruce Gerencser. A family member of his contacted me and let me know that some in his family are embarrassed by his actions and think he is an asshole.
Science continues to correct itself and remain relevant. Religion is unchangeable, the delusional outlet of the masses. The relaxing of rigid rules in religion is mere fashion. The naked thing covered with the clothes of this season does not change. Marx observed:
Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.
What we cannot face, or what we must repress/refuse to face, becomes our ‘religion’. This cannot be ‘abolished’ except personally. To attempt to abolish belief/religion on a national scale is just wrong and against human freedom to be… I abolished it personally, for me because it no longer met my needs. I wanted to face the pain as honestly as I could and that meant for me, saying no to what I was inventing, my belief passed down to me through generations.
We let our children die rather than disavow our delusion. We refuse medical help that could save the child because GOD.
(I am speaking symbolically here and realize that most Christians are not this sick, though some are and children still die because of adults like this.)
Religion is the human creation of our symptoms of delusion, a place we carry the pain of generational abuse, lack of love, tragic loss, what some religious people call the God-sized hole inside of us. I do not wish to give my feelings of despair, pain or joy to the ether. I want it myself. It is part of who I am and have always been. It was taken from me by delusionary beliefs brought into my life before I could even speak. Now, six plus decades later, I am learning to talk again.
Thank-you Bruce, Geoff et al for sharing this space with me. I have been told I am not easy regarding religion. Not all things we are told are untrue. 😉
What really irks me is that these people NEVER seem to get is that since it is THEY that claim that god/whatever exists, it is up to THEM to show us the evidence, not the other way around. If I bring a chair into the room and proclaim “Behold, a chair” it is entirely up to me to prove that it is actually a chair, and that it is actually in the room. They on the other hand seem to think that they can just casually saunter into a room and claim there is a chair there, and then proceed to demand from anyone opining that there actually isn’t, to prove this.
Anyone claiming the content of the theory of evolution usually just goes about proving it if challenged. He doesn’t demand the skeptic to disprove it.
I think the anonymous critic was confusing a degree (which as far as I know you’ve never claimed to have one) with a certificate of ordination. (Where did Washington State come into the mix, can’t figure that one out). While you can no longer perform ministerial duties under your old Baptist credentials, at least in the United States any of what would appear to be novelty certificates are as good as any other religion. While I don’t think you’ve had a chance to put it to the test, I have been to a ceremony officiated by a minister from one of those (I think it was New Life Church, but I could be wrong) and yes they are legit. After all what business is it of the secular government to say which religion is a parody and which is not?
I must admit I was wrong about advising you to not bother writing to your local rinky dink newspaper, obviously it makes a very big splash.
Bruce – the shit you put up with. Even more, the shit you put up for all of us. You are the voice that someone like me isn’t brave enough to voice – at least publicly – because I’m too wussy to face the incredibly paternal backlash of my family. In spite of everything you are facing physically, I’m awed that you take this on. Thank you. Just… Thank you.
Haha! I wish they would ask me for proof of circumcision!! ??
Anonymous3371 left another comment on the Crescent-News website:
anonymous3371
Not telling a lie if its the truth. According to the state of Ohio’s own webpage, Gerencser is clearly listed as a member of the Universal Life Church Pastor out of Seattle Washington http://www.themonastery.org/ a place where anyone can get a pastoral license inside of 10 seconds and for $250. they will tell you how to use it. Our own Sec of State Jon Husted has said this is a diploma mill and Ohio is in the middle of revoking any and all who claim to be part of this fake church and Congressman Latta is looking into banning them from isuing these fake diplomas. And anyone can see this is a diploma mill just by looking at the link. Mr Gerencser is just upset that the truth has come out showing he is no more a legal Pastor of any church then the rocks in his front yard. Mr.Gerencser can complain all he wants but its not smearing anything if it is truthful and factual and here is the link to validate it directly from the Sec of States own webpage where it clearly shows Mr Gerencser is exactly what I said he was. A fake pastor from a diploma mill “church” in Seattle Washington
January 31, 2016 2:18AM
I don’t understand the anonymous comment.
He refers to a Jon Husted as an authority on diploma mills, yet your diploma is quite clearly signed by Jon Husted.
You mean my license? Yes, it is approved and signed by the Secretary of State. According to the Universal Life website, thousands of Ohio weddings have been performed by officiants with ULC credentials.
The process is simple:
Application, copy of ordination, fee.
I highly doubt the state wants to weigh in on what is and isn’t a church/minister/ordination. They also don’t want attention brought to the quirk in the law that says the license for a minister ordained through an independent church is only good while the minister is at that church. I know numerous pastors who are likely performing weddings without a valid license. The moment they moved to a new church their license is no longer valid. That’s why I got re-ordained through a regional/national group.
You likely know of pastors performing weddings without a valid license? Oh dear… That means fornication is going on right under our noses! Festering fornicators are everywhere! And the fornicators do not know they are fornicating? Ohhhhh boy.
I wish I could leave a comment. But sorry, I don’t like the Crescent News enough to PAY to leave a message. The Bryan Times at least has some a more balanced approach, and has opinions from the left and right. Plus I respect the editor for reporting LGBT marriage, commonly known as “marriage.” (And I actually do get a discount on the Bryan Times, as Jacob delivers it so I get it at cost. Can’t go on their full website either.)
That’s okay. I hate the paywalls too. I understand why they do it, but I don’t like it. Our two youngest children delivered the Crescent-News for several years in Ney.
Right on Bruce!
(Referring to the post; I’ve not read the comments. 🙂 )
You had me laughing in the first sentence, “venting their spleen in my direction.”
Oh my. What a perfect description! 😀
Kudos for calling their bluff!
And yay for facts! 🙂
I know this stuff is not a laughing matter. OTOH, laughter sure helps. The other day I called it “survival humor.”