Evangelical and Roman Catholic blogs and news sites are buzzing with posts about the anti-abortion movie “Unplanned.” Starring Abby Johnson, a former clinic director for Planned Parenthood, the movie supposedly reveals the deep, dark, evil agenda of those who are pro-choice. According to the movie, Johnson had a come-to-Jesus moment and left Planned Parenthood after seeing an ultrasound of 13-week fetus and concluding that it was a baby. Anti-abortionists have turned Johnson into their latest saint, but as the following excerpt from Texas Monthly will show, her story contains omissions, contradictions, and outright lies. Nate Blakeslee writes:
As it happens, the discrepancy between Johnson’s account and Planned Parenthood’s records is just one of many problems with her story. Johnson describes my piece as the “sole source for every other abortion-supporting website to try and debunk my story.” This is flattering but far from true. My report followed on the heels of an account from the online magazine Salon, which was the first to report on an alternative reason Johnson may have quit her job: She had been disciplined by her boss shortly before she had her alleged conversion experience. Johnson, who was in her late twenties when she became clinic director, had been placed on a “performance improvement plan,” a fact she did not deny when I interviewed her not long after the Salon report came out. Johnson claimed she had fallen out of favor because she was resisting pressure to increase the number of abortions the clinic performed (a claim Planned Parenthood denies) and that she was never afraid she was going to be fired. But Salon discovered another curious fact. Johnson did not show up at the offices of the local anti-abortion organization, led by an activist named Shawn Carney, until nine days after she says she had her crisis of conscience. Oddly, she gave a local radio interview attacking Carney’s organization the day after she says she witnessed the disturbing ultrasound. (Johnson told me back in 2009 that she was still struggling with how to handle her crisis of conscience and wanted to keep up appearances.)
Then there was the Texas Observer story, which came out shortly after mine. Observer reporter Saul Elbein managed to land an interview with Johnson’s close friend Laura Kaminczak, who had remained tight with Johnson since college and who had been an assistant director at another Planned Parenthood clinic. The interview is more devastating to Johnson’s credibility than any set of records could ever be. Kaminczak knew all about Johnson’s troubles at work because she had the same troubles herself. She told the Observer that an email exchange between the two friends—one that discussed their respective coworkers in a highly inappropriate fashion—was discovered by one of Kaminczak’s subordinates, who took it up the chain of command. Kaminczak was fired, and Johnson was required to begin reporting to her own boss on a weekly basis.
According to Kaminczak, Johnson was upset, and she lashed out in a way calculated to cause the most harm she possibly could. “This whole thing is really just about a disgruntled employee,” Kaminczak told the Observer. “That’s all. It’s all just her way of getting back at [her boss].” Kaminczak said that Johnson did in fact mention seeing an abortion performed on an ultrasound not long before she quit but that she wasn’t at all upset about it. In fact, Johnson said the clinic’s increased use of ultrasound was likely to result in more effective procedures that were easier on the patient. There was certainly no description, replete with gruesome details, like the one she would later give. That story, Kaminczak said, was “bullshit.”
Johnson’s decision to join the Coalition for Life, the same anti-abortion group that had picketed her clinic for years, was “completely opportunistic,” Kaminczak told the Observer.
“She called me two weeks before this whole thing broke,” Kaminczak said, “and she told me she was thinking about going to the coalition. She had been having serious money problems—she’d been talking about bankruptcy—and she told me that Shawn [Carney] had promised her $3,000 speaking gigs if she came over.”
When Elbein questioned Johnson about Kaminczak’s account, she didn’t deny that the email exchange had occurred, but she insisted that it was not why she had been disciplined, and she denied having told her friend that she was considering declaring bankruptcy.
Johnson did go public with her story and was booked on Bill O’Reilly’s show shortly thereafter. From there the story of the converted clinic director began snowballing and never stopped—despite the investigative reporting done by myself and others.
Much as she did with Texas Monthly, Johnson has dismissed the Texas Observer, which has a long history of award-winning reporting, as a “liberal publication.” (Full disclosure: I worked there sixteen years ago.) But Elbein’s reporting speaks for itself. Kaminczak, who had, after all, just been fired by Planned Parenthood, had no incentive to come to her former employer’s defense. Nor did she have anything to gain by talking to the Observer; sometimes people just tell the truth because it is in their nature to do so.
And sometimes it is not. If you don’t want to believe Johnson’s close friend, how about Johnson herself? As I reported in my original story, Johnson’s own contemporaneous account on Facebook of her decision to leave the clinic does not line up well with the story she began telling publicly a month later. This is what she wrote on the night she quit:
Alright. Here’s the deal. I have been doing the work of two full time people for two years. Then, after I have been working my whole big butt off for them and prioritizing that company over my family, my friends and pretty much everything else in my life, they have the nerve to tell me that my job performance is “slipping.” WHAT???!!! That is crazy. Anyone that knows me knows how committed I was to that job. They obviously do not value me at all. So, I’m out and I feel really great about it!
Johnson never mentioned being pressured to increase abortions, witnessing the ultrasound-guided procedure, or suffering a moral crisis.
I confronted Johnson with these posts in the winter of 2009 in an interview at the offices of the Coalition for Life, which was just down the street from the clinic. Johnson sat on a couch with a cushion in her lap, not far from where she had sat when she told her conversion story for the very first time, to her erstwhile adversary Shawn Carney. He was perched nearby as I questioned Johnson, nodding supportively. Johnson told me, in essence, that the Facebook account was a cover story she cooked up until she could figure out what she really wanted to say.
One of Johnson’s conflicting explanations for why she left has to be false. How are we supposed to judge whether or not Johnson is telling the truth now? Well, in addition to the discrepancies outlined above, she also told me that abortions were performed by a for-profit company at Planned Parenthood (they are not), that local anti-abortion activists had never threatened physical violence (they had), and that she never made plans to go public with her story (she did).
And, of course, there are the records of the procedures performed—or not performed—on that fateful day in Bryan. Johnson seems to feel the version held by the Department of State Health Services—the ones the agency has refused to share with reporters—will vindicate her account. Unless the department changes its current policy, we may never know. But a person could be forgiven for asking if the release of the records would really change anything. If you view Abby Johnson’s story as an inspiring parable of redemption, there’s likely very little that would change your mind. Likewise, if you don’t think the government—or anyone else—should be telling women not to have abortions, are you really going to go see this movie?
The Abby Johnson story is a rabbit hole. I, for one, am climbing out. Enjoy the film.
Johnson, a Baptist-turned-Lutheran-turned-Episcopalian-turned Catholic, had two abortion herself before giving birth to her daughter. Johnson and her husband have seven children.
Recently, Johnson was quoted as saying, “I don’t believe in punishing women who seek to have abortion services.” When asked if she supports abolishing abortion in Texas, Johnson replied, “Of course. But I don’t support bills that criminalize women.” Johnson believes women who have abortions are “victims,” not criminals. And therein is revealed the hypocrisy of Abby Johnson and many of her fellow anti-abortion zealots. If life begins at fertilization and abortion is murder, then those who materially participate in aborting a fetus are guilty of capital murder. Johnson wants abortion doctors prosecuted for murder, but not the women having the abortions. Of course, she has to believe this due to her own abortions. To say that women should be prosecuted for murdering their “babies” means that Johnson, herself, should be arrested and charged with a capital crime; a crime, by the way, that carries the death penalty in Texas.
In Texas, you don’t have to actually pull the trigger to be charged with murder. If you materially participate in a murder, in the eyes of the law you are just as guilty as the person who snuffed out a person’s life. If, as anti-abortionist say, abortion is murder, then everyone who participates in the procedure: doctor, nurse, clinic staff, and patient, are guilty of homicide. Is this not the logical conclusion of believing life begins at conception? Why do anti-abortionists such as Johnson refuse to own this fact? The same goes for anti-abortionists who make exceptions for rape and incest. The only rationally sound anti-abortion — I refuse to use the term pro-life since most pro-lifers are only concerned with the pre-born — position is one that outlaws and criminalizes abortion regardless of the reason.
Let me conclude this post with one further observation about the “abortion is murder” position. If it is God who opens and closes the womb, and Jesus holds in his hand the keys to life and death, doesn’t this make the Christian God the greatest abortionist and murderer since Adam and Eve got off the Ark? Far more inseminated eggs/fetuses are miscarried than are aborted. Who is culpable for these miscarriages? Damn, theology is a bitch, isn’t it? God alone is to blame for miscarriages, thus he is the greatest abortionist of all time. And if this is true, shouldn’t God be arrested, charged with murder, and executed? Most Evangelical anti-abortionists are pro-death penalty. These immoral hypocrites believe serial killers, mass murderers, and abortion doctors should be executed. Fine, but shouldn’t God face the same punishment? Or are his “murders” somehow different from those committed by mere mortals? Perhaps it is time for God to be strapped to a gurney and given a lethal injection. If abortion is murder, how can Evangelicals arrive at any other conclusion but this one?
Other posts on abortion
Abortion Facts, Lies, and Contradictions
25 Questions for Those who say Abortion is Murder
Preaching the Anti-Abortion Gospel
Is Abortion Murder? (A Rationalist’s Take)
Abortion and the Religious Right
Quote of the Day: Why Women Have Abortions After 24 Weeks by Dr. Jen Gunter
Quote of the Day: The Facts About Late-Term Abortions by Dr. Jen Gunter
What Anti-Abortion Zealots Really Want
Why it is Impossible to Talk to Pro-Life Zealots About Abortion
About Bruce Gerencser
Bruce Gerencser, 61, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 40 years. He and his wife have six grown children and twelve grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist. For more information about Bruce, please read the About page.
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Wow… yeah… her friend has “no reason to defend her former employer”. Unless you view it as her trying to get back at Johnson for getting her fired. Yeah, great journalism there, way to look at all the sides of the story and not just try to defend your political position (PS – I don’t have an opinion on this situation, and I have not seen the movie… I just make it a mission of mine to call out all poor journalists.)
You sound like a disgruntled minister getting even with your former employer, God. Get thee to a mental health facility to address your anger management issues, for starters. Sour grapes.
Elizabeth,
Boy, are you going to look stupid in about 3, 2, 1.
You read one post on this site and then judged me accordingly. The Bible says in Proverbs 18:13
Answering before listening is both stupid and rude.
I’ve been seeing a licensed secular psychologist for a decade.
Further, I am not angry.
And finally, the Christian God is a myth. Thus, I expend no emotional capital on a mythical being. That what be ignorant and stupid. I am, however, offended and angered by your hateful, mean-spirited words. You don’t know me, and you made no attempt to do so.
Let me ask you this, Elizabeth: are your words Christ-like? Did you say anything in your comment that would commend Christ to the thousands of unbelievers who read this blog?
So, I will await your apology. But I sure as hell won’t hold my breath. Assholes like you never apologize.
Thank you for commenting.
Bruce Gerencser
So Christian typical. Judge first, assume you know all about others, then cast the first stone. Include a few thinly veiled insults too, just to emphasize your religious pedigree. Why waste any pearls on pigs?
Since you are Christian -and you may enjoy good ministers – you might want to read up on the sermons of a minister from the past. I am not sure he will fit your style though. He didn’t do the church thing, and his most famous sermon was given at some outdoor event while sitting on a hillside. I have to warn you though, based on the post you just made, you may find his views a bit controversial and liberal. I know his sermons are really old and maybe you will think they are dated, but google him…you can find his teachings under the name Jesus Christ.
Some books even have his word in red, to make it easier to find.
Elizabeth Arrabito, ask yourself Bruce’s question: “If it is God who opens and closes the womb, and Jesus holds in his hand the keys to life and death, doesn’t this make the Christian God the greatest abortionist and murderer since Adam and Eve got off the Ark?”
What say you Elizabeth? Does this sound angry? Or, is it a good question?
Also this from Bruce: “These immoral hypocrites believe serial killers, mass murderers, and abortion doctors should be executed.”
Who sounds angry here Elizabeth?
Does Bruce sound angry? Maybe he has every right to be angry.
Does your God agree with the hypocrites? I think the hypocrites themselves sound angry.
Stop trying to mind-read and tone-police other peoples’ emotions, mortal.
People please consider this. In the author’s bio below the story they say he was a pastor for 25 years. He casts stones at God calling him a murderer and questions, rhetorically, “isn’t theology a B?” All while not only having tremendously bad theology, but also a complete lack of basic Biblical literacy at all. Not only do you not have to be a pastor for 25 years, but I know three year olds who know better than to say that it was Adam and Eve who got off of the ark. Please consider the source. A man who claims to have been a pastor for 25 years who doesn’t know one of the most basic Bible stories that you can read within 20 minutes of opening the Bible. Not only would no Christian get that story wrong-certainly no true pastor would- I have never met a non Christian, secular person who did not know about Noah’s ark.
My response 🙂
http://brucegerencser.net/2021/12/bruce-you-werent-a-real-pastor-and-dont-know-anything-about-the-bible/
Don’t forget the (supposed) worldwide flood story and the (supposed) conquest of Canaan where God murdered the unborn and the born in the former and ordered his army to murder all in the latter. Oh that’s right, evangelicals like to leave out uncomfortable details such as those.
It’s called ‘Divine Command Theory’…….Gawwd is ALWAYS right no matter how he behaves. Atheist Activist Matt Dillahunty has a very good video presentation about this on YouToob.
I’m inclined to give her a pass on her hypocrisy. Doesn’t really matter if it is her being a disgruntled employee or had some sort of ultrasound revelation. It is more likely than not that she is sincere.
The movie itself isn’t going to be all that widely viewed. Oh and the recent congressional testimony by one of the producers that nearly 100 planned parenthood techs resigned is pure b.s similarly to the movie. (The entire movie’s purpose is to incite and will not have any cross examination of its thesis and will no doubt be fast and loose with facts, because there is no reason for accuracy or integrity.)
The notion that if a pro-life law is passed it would exempt the potential mother as a “victim” is laughable. Not only that the law will extend its tentacles to include women who have spontaneous miscarriages. It’s already been done in the U.S. and is common in countries that outlaw abortion.
When Trump was asked about it, he had to walk back his original assertion that there would be punishment for women. Not sure why they do this, but Trump was right for once…if abortion is outlawed, it’ll be a crime to provide one or arrange for one. As a recent proposed Texas law clearly indicates, the more south you get, the more draconian the law will be (yes the punishment was ironically death).
Leaving Christianity and atheism out of it , in the UK a baby was born premature at a weight of 12 oz and has survived and is now doing fine, does this not tells us something .When a woman has a miscarriage she is usually very upset and we sympathise with her but if she has an abortion its somehow different , does the act change the nature of the life that ended.
It tells us medical technology has greatly improved. That said, 90-96 percent of such births end with the fetus dying. Pretty poor average, even for God.
Ha! You humanists! You assume that because God decides 90-96% die that HIS average is low! It is exactly as HE wants it. And exactly reflects that religions following such delusion prefer the misery doled out by it. God’s average is impeccable, perfect, just what the doctor ordered. Now, where did I leave that hair-shirt?
I could only read so many of these disgusting comments on here. I will just say a prayer over this post, it’s author, and those who commented. I am pro life and proud of it. I know my Bible and I love Jesus! I know what happened in the old testament, and I know what happened in the new testament. And I hope when I die I am worthy to be in God’s presence for all eternity. I certainly hope you all have a turning to God moment!
LeAnn,
What did you hope to accomplish with your comment? I assume you wrote your comment so you would feel better. You subtly threatened a group of people you do not know with eternal torture in Hell, all because we dared to disagree with and say negative things about Abby Johnson. Worse yet, you made no attempt to directly respond to what I wrote. How about you back up and try again?
I know my Bible too. It’s likely I know it better than you do. Would you like to talk about what the Bible actually says about abortion or talk about how the pro-life movement perverts and distorts the words of the Bible to advance their (im)moral and political agenda? I’m game if you are.
I suspect you won’t reply to my comment. So, say your prayer, and I’ll let you know if it makes a lick 👅 of difference. Thousands of prayers have be uttered by Evangelicals on my behalf over the past fifteen years, pleading 🥺 for God to save me, judge me, or kill me. Here I am, untouched by the Big Kahuna. If God wants to straighten me out, he has my email address, text number, and home 🏠 address. I’ll be waiting. 👹👹😈😈
Most of readers of this blog are atheists, agnostics, liberal Christians, and non-Christians. We don’t believe your peculiar deity exists, so we have no need of a “turning to God” moment.
No, not interested in spending eternity with your imaginary friend, Leann.
As for your status as a forced-birther, are you prepared to foot the entire bill (food, clothing, shelter, medical care and postsecondary education) for even one unwanted child? No? Then butt out. Not your uterus, not your business.
It speaks to the authoritarian mindset that people who want something to stop, immediately declare that it should be outlawed. History teaches us that outlawing abortion simply leads to back-alley abortions, just as Prohibition was the parent of speakeasies. Better to understand why women want those abortions, and deal with the triggering factors. If the US were a nation that promoted birth control for people not wanting to make babies, that would help.
If the country supported its poor, provided uniformly good medical care to everyone (including birth control), assisted pregnant women with the immediate hits to income that happen during and after pregnancy, I think the abortion rate would plummet. One area where abortion rates wouldn’t plummet would be late-term abortions–because those are either medically necessary or involve the abortion of a fetus so malformed that it would live for a very short time after birth.
But noooo, who cares about the parents? Certainly not the forced-birth people. We can’t possibly provide for our people in the US, that would be Evil and Against God’s Plan! We absolutely mustn’t allow late-term abortions, that’s a BAAAYYYBBBEEEEE being aborted! Who cares if the mother dies, that’s God’s will!
I am so tired of this BS.
Why do abortion doctors not tell the women all the facts? Show them their baby on ultrasound? How can anyone make a good choice when they don’t get all the facts?
638,000 abortions in 2015. Yet according to the CDC, only 131,000 annually babies are born with some kind of birth defect, most not life threatening. That means over 500,000 abortions are just birth control. And statistically, only 1,000 pregnancies annually result in the mother’s death. Explain 500,000 abortions. Laziness? Ambivalence? Recklessly irresponsible? When the parents, and society in general value their precious status quo more than the life of a baby, this is what happens.
No woman has to explain to you why she has an abortion. Who are you to judge? Every woman should be entitled to determine what happens to her own body without interference from holier-than-thou people such as you! Who are you to say that a woman who does not know how she is going to feed and house the children she already has should have another one? Who are you to say that a woman who has mental or physical difficulties should bring to term a pregnancy she doesn’t want and cannot handle? Who are you to say that ANY woman should have to have a child she doesn’t want? What happens to a woman’s pregnancy should be strictly between her and her doctor, without interference from Congress or from busy-bodies such as you!
People like you cry about the unborn but are perfectly happy if living children are hungry, or in a camp at the border without their needs being taken care of. Spare me your pity for those who haven’t been born.
Given all the environmental, resource, and other problems that over-population is causing, one wonders why some desire that there be even more people. Explain this bizarre urge to fill the world with 500,000 more people. Ignorance? Ambivalence? Reckless irresponsibility? A perverse desire to see their own starving friends and family eat one another? When one blindly adopts a principle and pushes it upon others without understanding their situation nor fully considering the potential impacts, this is what happens.
(Aside: it’s quite easy and even lazy to criticize others when you don’t know their circumstances, but I’m more than happy to criticize YOU, Evil-JW, on your attitude alone!)
I can explain abortion in three words.
Poverty.
Education.
Religion.
When you were throwing out all these numbers did you take the opportunity to comprehend them? Did you take the opportunity to look at them within their socio-economic context?
Okay, allow me to throw out some information in the form of numbers to you now:
Did you know that there are 44 million people in this country that are uninsured? So what does that mean exactly, well in terms of contraceptives like coils which cost little to nothing for the insured, the uninsured have to pay $1,300 for the procedure. If you are living in poverty are you really going to be able to afford that? It might explain why 75% of all abortions are people who come from low-income status. There is a correlation between poverty and abortion and this is pretty telling stuff.
Did you know that not everyone can take the pill whether it be genetics or intolerances there are several women who simply cannot take the pill or similar contraceptives? That leaves them in a state of having to abstain from sexual activities and adult life experiences when they shouldn’t have to.
Condoms only work when applied properly and 15%-20% of the time they are not applied properly.
Education is garbage in this country. We teach abstinence in this country and the evidence suggests to us that teaching abstinence doesn’t work. America’s unhealthy relationship with sex education is a problem and when compared to other countries that have healthier attitudes they incidentally have lower abortion rates.
Religion shames women all the time for having sex before marriage, treating women like they are chewed up gum for having sex before marriage. Some religious communities have rigorous and very uncomfortable interviews for young women all of the time. Purity culture can be very damaging in that regard and let’s face it there is a reason 62% of women who have an abortion are affiliated with religion in some form or other. I should point you in the direction of the Transformed Wife, Morgan and Paul, Biblical Gender Roles, and Girl Defined as examples of how religion plays a part in telling women what their roles and their lives should look like in very dangerous ways.
Contraception deserts. We don’t talk about it, but more than 19 million women live in regions where there’s little to no access to health centers and in order to have control over your reproductive outcomes you must first have access. This is in America btw.
So let’s talk about what is going on globally.
In developed countries, abortion is actually on the decline, more so in countries where contraceptives are pushed and pushed and pushed. Accessible to everyone. Not shamed by religious morons like the Transformed Wife. What does the research tell us, it tells us when contraceptives are accessible, affordable, and widely used abortions go down. The information I provided above shows how we fall behind a lot of other countries, especially European countries, in that regard.
What we also know is that abortions increase the most under two restrictive categories 1. only to save the mothers life and 2. banned outright. That’s right, the more restrictions you put on abortion the greater the increase you see in abortion, it’s funny how that works, but restricting and banning abortion has been shown time and time again that it doesn’t stop or decrease abortion it gives it a bit of an increase and it makes it more dangerous. So instead of 34 to 1,000 women having an abortion, you get an increase of 37 to 1,000 women having an abortion.
Now let’s look at North America with its somewhat liberal laws on abortion compared to Latin America with its horribly restrictive laws on abortion.
In NA the abortion rate is 17 per 1,000 women.
In LA the abortion rate is 44 per 1,000 women.
What’s lazy, ambivalent, and irresponsible is throwing out numbers that look impressive without understanding context. Also, I don’t consider a fetus or an embryo to be a baby. I also think a fetus or an embryo has about as much claim over a mother’s body as I have to your internal organs. If all life is precious then would you be willing to sacrifice your internal organs to me without consent, by law, if I demanded access to your organs? It’s a different story then, isn’t it?
I held their hands, hugged them, went to appointments. Supporting my friends in our younger years when they found themselves facing unwanted pregnancies. Afterward, they went on with their lives, some married, some had families. One even became a pro-abortion activist, encouraging other woman to make the choice she did. It only took her 23 years to have the breakdown that all of the others had. Finally, finally, she opened the floodgates of regret and grief.
Never had an abortion myself, won’t judge. Not my place. All I know is that my friends who did have one, regretted it the rest of their lives. Some are grandmothers now. Some were never able to get pregnant again.
Isn’t it funny that the statement “I won’t judge,” is almost always followed by a judgmental statement.
And your story is entirely anecdotal and applies only to the people you know and not to the overall population. Do some women regret having an abortion, yes, but for every woman who regrets it there’s a woman who believes it was the right choice. Anecdotal fallacy, it’s a fallacy because anecdotes are relative not facts.
Hey, it’s worse than that, if the anti-abortionists read their bibles they’d know that their “god”, unlike the pro-choice people, is actually pro abortion:
“Then the Lord said to Moses, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[c] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.
“‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[d] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”
“‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[e] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.”
This is about the only passage in the bible mentioning abortions, and not only is yhwh condoning abortions, but in certain circumstances, he is demanding them.
It’s not an abortion; it’s a trial by ordeal. If she is guilty, she will die from the ordeal, because she has transgressed the holy covenant of marriage. If she is innocent, no harm shall follow. This is the work of the Lord, revealing that which is hidden and causing people’s own sins to testify against them. Though no human witnessed the crime, none can hide from God, and He decrees that if a man lies with another man’s wife, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall die for their crime.
That’s some strained reasoning. Here’s more reasoning: it was okay (supposedly) with God that the woman carry out an abortion. You’re saying if she’s innocent, no abortion; if she’s guilty, the fetus dies! Which makes an abortion OKAY by God.
Like Bruce, Abby changed her mind, but she is traveling in the opposite direction. She keeps moving further and further in opposition to killing any humans as time goes on. Adapting one’s practices to respecting human life involves a lifelong struggle to become more adept, skillful and self consistent. The opposition to Abby has become very intense, and is a measure of her success in influencing others to change their minds about killing humans.
I would bet serious money that she supports the death penalty.
I think it would be interesting to interview the 100s of woman that Abby claims has left their former abortion clinic jobs and “crossed over”.
Me, I’ve completed 100s of ultrasounds on the unborn, usually before 14wks. Seeing them, their hearts beating and their movements, has almost always changed perspective. Even a GA of 5w5d w/beating heart brings mothers to tears. That may be ALL they see, yet seeing is still powerful. Knowledge clears up a lot of speculation, fears, uncertainty. So many times I witnessed changed minds bc the evidence would speak for itself. No words needed. Technology has thankfully unveiled the hidden so mothers can make informed decisions based on fact.
We always offer these ladies, many unwed, material support for their baby needs, supportive classes in parenting, counseling for themselves and guidance in endeavors such as employment…Even recovery for those who abort. We never judge, therefore we continue to thrive in our county, which is fairly poor. It’s the varied churches that come together to offer help, from hosting baby-showers to “adopting” a young mother. It’s truly amazing to see. Many return to show off their babies, or toddlers. We also encourage the father’s to be involved. We’ve seen quite a few weddings.
On the other hand, my personal family has been on all sides. I was terrified at 19 and pregnant, and even though I was newly married, I was definitely not expecting to be pregnant within weeks. No job, no money, I sobbed!! I was seeing the doc to get on birth control, not be told I had a positive preg test. The old country doc was willing and ready to do a DNC. I literally thought about it as my husband and I sat in the hallway in disbelief, trying to wrap our young mind around it. He was 18 and my family was states away. Today, my son is 38, an educated internal investigator for an outstanding reputable police department in Plano Texas. I almost let FEAR snuff him out. Btw, I became a single mom by the time he was 8months old, as his daddy went to prison. Long story, but, I’m a tough determined cookie that would NOT give up. Nor did I get on government aid, or move in with parents or mooch off some guy. I was independent. Best thing ever to grow a young woman up. Eventually an RN career of 25yrs.
My sister had 3 abortions. Drank and drugged herself to death. Her twin adopted out 2 straight from the hospital to awaiting families. One is 30 and the other 28. They are both extremely successful with full lives. My sister has only met the younger one 2x. This same sister adopted a baby that she took in at 2wks old WHEN she herself was 50. He’s 4yo now. My brother adopted a child that he and his wife began fostering at 5 days old. She’s now 18 and very independent. I’ve seen and experienced it all, almost. I’ve never seen an abortion. Don’t want to. I’ve known too many that have aborted and never have I heard anything but regret. That IS the truth.
I think I pretty much covered it. Opinions dont really count.
http://brucegerencser.net/2015/03/abortion-facts-lies-and-contradictions/
http://brucegerencser.net/2016/07/abortion-murder-rationalists-take/
http://brucegerencser.net/2015/02/25-questions-say-abortion-murder/
http://brucegerencser.net/2017/08/what-anti-abortion-zealots-really-want/
http://brucegerencser.net/2016/10/abortion-one-issue-voters/
http://brucegerencser.net/2017/07/preaching-anti-abortion-gospel/
Rebecca, opinions do count.
My opinion is that I don’t believe you. I don’t think you’re a registered nurse, let alone a radiologist with the qualifications to properly read an ultrasound. It’s more likely that you’re a staffer at one of those fake “pregnancy distress” centres that bully women into going ahead with unwanted pregnancies so that the church behind the scenes can rake in big bucks adopting out forced-birth infants.
And I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if it turned out that your “ultrasound machine” was just a VCR playing “ancient ultrasound footage of fetus sucking its thumb.”
Rebecca Peterson, what on earth do you mean ‘opinions don’t count’? The whole abortion debate is littered with opinion. Forced birthers (I’m sorry but the term ‘pro-life is not appropriate) scream and shout outside abortion clinics at poor women, and girls, who have not got the type of life benefits of the women you describe and yearn for. They are at perhaps the lowest stage in their lives, have been advised, counselled, and come to a decision to abort, only to be met by callous hordes calling them murderers! Fortunately, abortion providers in the US are managing to circumvent some of this stupidity, becoming as devious as the protesters, but it’s not enough.
Abortion is not murder, and it is not an issue of biology, despite the constant shouts otherwise. Biology is a description of the medical state in which a woman finds herself at any given time, and uses medical terms accordingly. Those terms do not include murder, or execution, or infanticide, not even ‘life begins at…’ When life begins is a philosophical point, and hence an opinion, which may or may not be informed by the courts and judges offering their opinion. ‘Murder’ is a legal term, arrived at by philosophical consideration of the issues. Hence you will understand why I say you are quite wrong in asserting that opinions don’t matter; they are all that matter, but they must be guided by the law, and the law presently says that abortion is legal, subject to certain constraints.
It’s interesting that you express your own opinion (which you somehow have decided is a fact) then say “opinions don’t really count.” Maybe what you meant to say is “other opinions don’t really count.” I think that fits your manipulative world view a little better.
This in regards to the abortion birth control bit. I am going to write some not very very nice or very Christian things at all. in early 2009 a couple of Catholic parishes tried to assist some woman. The bulletin stated that she had six children but there was not much detail about her background. After the assistance the woman foolishly wrote the parishes a thank you note which someone just as foolishly decide to post somewhere inside the church. The reason I am saying that was a few weeks later this woman and her brother were arrested for illegal drug dealing. They hailed from Pontiac Illinois which is in Livingston County Illinois, the illegal drug using drunk driving, alcohol abuse capital of east central Illinois. This is the only county in Illinois where the life expectancy for women actually decreased from 1987 to 2007. That was not just due to drug use. There is a lot of problems with heart disease, obesity, tobacco use and other poor health practices. It was one county where I felt that instead of trying to set up a crisis pregnancy center the public policy needed to be to pay people to get sexually sterilized as soon as possible. With some of the people there Junior high school needed to be the place where the children needed to be fixed the same way as cats and dogs get fixed. You can read the depressing facts about the woman and her brother from the links I have posted. Elisha Hallam gave birth to seven children before the state removed them from her. Three of her children were fathered by some male by the name of Joshua Kallas. This Joshua Kallas is in prison in Illinois for various felonies. Her brother Andrew Hallam died from an heroin overdose in 2017, but not before he sired four children with one or more women.
https://www.week.com/2022/04/21/pontiac-police-sergeant-arrested-sunday-incident/ This is somewhat off topic but here goes. I would like to semi-apologize for some of the criticisms of the residents of Livingston county. Often those people in that county who should serve as role models are anything else but. I also should mention that all too often the offspring of some of the people in law enforcement in that county are nothing to write home about. One son of a deceased Fairbury Illinois police officer has been in prison for various felonies and I believe Dane Frickey is in prison now. Also forgot to include diabetes, cancer and cerebrovascular disease rates seem to be higher than average. If the death rate in the 25-44 age group in Livingston county Illinois was the same for residents of a larger county in population to the south, there would be 80 deaths in that age group instead of about 50 some deaths. A son of a one-time sheriff died at the age of 29 in 2008 and it was strongly suspected that Illegal drugs were a factor in his death.
Whenever I hear “every” woman who’s had an abortion regrets it, I say bullshit. I know women who don’t wish they hadn’t had their abortions. They might regret or feel anger about the situation that led them to making their decision–i.e., rape, incest, an abusive relationship, poverty, contraception that didn’t work or simple youthful indiscretion.
Ironically, it was working with children that solidified my belief that abortion should be available, no questions asked. It’s not that I didn’t like the kids. Rather, I felt bad for the kids who were brought into this world unwanted, or to people who didn’t have the wherewithal to be parents. Such kids know who they are, and you can just imagine the issues some of them had as a result.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/30/texas-abortion-johns-hopkins-study/#:~:text=Close%20to%2010%2C000%20additional%20babies,School%20of%20Public%20Health%20shows. From what this article states, there have been an additional 10,000 births due to the state of Texas passing an restrictive abortion law in September of 2021.