The Life and Times of Bruce Gerencser

Bruce, You Are Interpreting Those Verses Wrong

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Bruce Gerencser

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praise god for me

I recently received the following question from a Christian man named Joel. My response follows.

It’s not true that you can’t be saved.

Is this a general statement or a specific one? Is Joel claiming universal salvation? How does Joel KNOW that it is NOT true that I can’t be saved?” It is clear from the Bible that apostates and reprobates cannot be saved. They have crossed a line of no return.

Further the book of Hebrews says:

For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened and have tasted the heavenly gift and have shared in the Holy Spirit and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come and then have fallen away, since they are crucifying again the Son of God to their own harm and are holding him up to contempt. (Hebrews 6:4-6)

Let’s take a careful look at these verses.

The text says “For it is impossible.” What is “impossible?” To restore a Christian who has fallen away.

Have I been enlightened, tasted the Heavenly gift, shared in the Holy Spirit, tasted the good word of God, and power of the age to come? Yes.

It is clear from Scripture and personal testimony that I was a follower or Jesus. Yet, I am an atheist today. Why is that? The above text answers this question by saying that I have fallen away and crucified Jesus afresh, making a mockery of him.

Hebrews 10:26-30 says:

For if we willfully persist in sin after having received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy “on the testimony of two or three witnesses.” How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know the one who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:26-30)

Have I spurned Jesus, profaned the blood of the covenant, and outraged the Spirit? Have I received the knowledge of the truth? Yes, and this means there no longer remains a sacrifice for my sins. No blood atonement, no salvation.

It is clear from Hebrews 6 and 10, that I am unsaved and can never be saved again.

That verse that says about how it’s impossible for a person who was once enlightened, etc. and who has seen the powers of the come…

You haven’t seen the powers of the age to come, but a somewhat watered-down version of Christianity, where it was taught in IFB seminary that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today. That wasn’t your fault that you were taught that.

Sigh. Joel wrongly believes that I haven’t seen “the powers of the age of come.” Based on this faulty conclusion, Joel believes I was taught a watered-down version of Christianity. He provides no evidence for his claim. Joel just asserts his claim and expects everyone to just trust him.

I suspect Joel is either a pentecostal or charismatic Christian. What Joel does not know is that I was a non-cessationist; someone who believes the gifts of the Holy Spirit are in force and operational today. A cessationist is someone who believes the gifts of the spirit are not for today. That said, much of what goes on in Pentecostal/Charismatic churches is downright heretical. No “miracle” is out of bounds, so healing evangelists report crazy claims.

I attended Midwestern Baptist College in the mid-70s to train for the ministry. According to Joel, Midwestern taught me a watered-down version of Christianity. Maybe, but Joel is unaware of the fact that I left the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) church movement in the 80s — 20 years before I deconverted. There goes another straw man up in smoke. I just love setting fire to straw men. 🙂

I think you just got discouraged and went AWOL for awhile.

I left Christianity almost 20 years ago. So much for going “AWOL for awhile.” In other words. my atheism is temporary, and to quote Arnold Schwarzenegger, “I’ll be back.” This is patently untrue. My atheism is not a temporary viewpoint. I will, however, get saved for $5,000,000. 🙂

Joel thinks the reason I left Christianity is because I “got discouraged.” I am sure discouragement played a part, but the primary reason I left Christianity is this: the central claims of Christianity are false. They no longer make any sense to me.

You were seeing  a very lukewarm version of “church”.

How could Joel possibly know this? Did he attend any of the churches I pastored? No. Did he know I left the IFB church movement 20 years before I deconverted? No. Had Joel gone to any of the churches I pastored, he would have learned “lukewarm” was not in my vocabulary. I was a committed Christian who took seriously the teachings of the Bible and tried to put my faith into practice every day of the week,

Joel, you might want to peruse the posts on the WHY? page.

Saved by Reason,

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Comments

5 responses to “Bruce, You Are Interpreting Those Verses Wrong”

  1. Ben Berwick

    There’s a consistent pattern isn’t there? Every one of these souls that come here to save yours claims you have misinterpreted the Bible. None of them have taken the time to read your story, or if they have, none of them have sought to understand it.

    There is also a pattern of arrogance. The preachers come with a sense of righteousness, a belief that you cannot possibly understand how to interpret the Bible, despite your history. They and they alone possess what you need, each new arrival has the words that will bring you back to the flock. Their hubris is oustanding.

    Reply
  2. Avatar
    GeoffT

    My mother in law died recently after prolonged dementia in a nursing home. She was devoutly Catholic, though I don’t ever remember her trying to discuss the subject with me. My wife is atheist, though she does have quite fond memories of her Catholic education. In fact most of the family is pretty well detached from religion, though perhaps not actively identifying as atheist. Out of the blue I received a request to do a bible reading at the service. My initial thought was WTF! Then I realised it wasn’t really about what I believed but rather for other people, especially her older friends, and plus there were several similar kind contributions from other non religious family members.
    Anyhow, to the point. I was sent a printed out copy of the reading via a WhatsApp message. It was quite hard to read and, in any event, I was told that I was required to read from the actual bible that would be opened to the relevant page. To ensure I could practice I looked up the Romans chapter and verse…and immediately noticed significant differences in the text as against what I’d been sent. I tried over and again but couldn’t find an exact match, and some were very different. Eventually I made use of Ai to help out and got there, but this really brought home to me how many different versions of the bible there are. And that’s modern day, now, contemporaneous versions of the same, supposedly original text. Add in the fact that the ‘originals’ we now work from are copies of copies of copies, and that these were then copied ad nauseam, translated, mistranslated, deliberately altered for theological preference, how can anyone take seriously that this truly is ‘the word of our lord’? Joel has decided simply to add in his own version, no doubt heavily influenced by bible study classes (bible rewriting classes!), and so yet another, probably the ten millionth variation enters circulation!

    Reply
  3. Avatar
    … Zoe ~

    I can’t think of a single person, including myself, that would ever refer to me as “lukewarm” during my Christian years. Every day, every second. I just don’t think we can explain to the satisfaction of those who arrive only to tell us, “they know” and we don’t. There are just so many Christianities it makes it impossible to pick the right one. They can’t seem to see that if we pick Joel’s then there is a Richard who says, nope. :/ And so on and so forth.

    Reply
  4. BJW

    Well, Joel made several assumptions, none of which you mentioned. If he had just believed what you said, he could’ve saved himself time from ignorant proselytizing.

    Reply
  5. Avatar
    ObstacleChick

    I thought with God all things are possible. So why are there verses saying there’s a point beyond which someone cannot be saved? Is God too weak? He doesn’t want to put in any effort?

    Sorry, just pointing out an inconsistency.

    It’s interesting how people like to blame others for not following the “RIGHT” brand of Christianity.

    Reply

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