Today, I received the following comment from a Christian CPA named Brian. I won’t use his last name, or say where his business is located, even though he deserves no respect from me. I might, however, send Brian a few bucks since, as you shall see, the CAPS LOCK key on his computer keyboard is either stuck or broken.
THIS CLOWN MAY NOT BELIEVE IN HELL NOW BUT ONE TENTH OF ONE SECOND AFTER HE DIES HE WILL AND HE WILL NEEEEEEEEVER GET OUT. ENJOY IT NOW WEIRDO.
Brian has never seen Hell, has no evidence to prove its existence, yet he KNOWS it exists, and that the clown Bruce Gerencser is going there when he dies. Sure scares the h-e-l-l into me! 🙂
Brian is yet another bombastic Christian critic who read all of one post on this site. Just one, and then he ejaculated in my direction. Eww, right? I am immune to such comments/emails, but I find them entertaining, and I hope that the readers of this blog do too.
Thanks, Brian!
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
1. What thinking is yours with regards to the pre-historic eons of worship of nearly all peoples? (having stood atop multiple 20,000 foot peaks and viewed stone cairns of apparent worship; mummified remains of children sacrificed to appease the gods; studied rituals of flinging one’s self from the summits in obeisance to the gods, etc)?
2. Did I miss your reading of the book by C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity? And your thoughts.
I suspect the author is a Christian, but regardless, I find these questions worth answering. Let me answer the second question first: have I read C.S. Lewis’s book, Mere Christianity? The short answer is yes. I read Mere Christianity years ago, when I was an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (IFB) pastor in southeast Ohio in the 80s and 90s. I found Lewis’s book to be shallow, and way too ecumenical for me, at the time.
Mere Christianity is a revised and expanded version of three radio talks Lewis gave, and was written, as Lewis explains in the preface, to present the “mere” essence of Christianity; that is, to explain and defend the beliefs common to all Christian denominations.
….
Though the preface is only a lead-in to the rest of the book, it contains a very revealing statement. In explaining the purpose of the book, Lewis says that he is only writing to defend “mere” Christianity – the core of the religion, the beliefs common to all denominations – and that therefore this book will offer no help to someone who is already a Christian and is trying to decide between two denominations. Although Lewis admits that he is a member of the Church of England himself, he writes: “You will not learn from me whether you ought to become an Anglican, a Methodist, a Presbyterian, or a Roman Catholic” (p.vi).
Lewis says that he will not discuss the differences in doctrine between the various Christian sects for two reasons: the first is that he does not feel qualified to write about the arcane points of theology that separate one denomination from another. But the second reason, he says, is this:
“And secondly, I think we must admit that the discussion of these disputed points has no tendency at all to bring an outsider into the Christian fold. So long as we write and talk about them we are much more likely to deter him from entering any Christian communion than to draw him into our own. Our divisions should never be discussed except in the presence of those who have already come to believe that there is one God and that Jesus Christ is His only Son” (p.vi).
This is a very interesting – some would say damning – confession. Lewis claims that the doctrinal disputes between Christian sects are more likely to turn a seeker away than cause him to convert – and that therefore the appropriate response is to hide these disputes from people who are considering Christianity. How could such behavior be called anything other than deceptive?
If a person converts to Christianity because an evangelist has concealed from him some relevant fact that might have deterred him from converting had he known it in advance, then his conversion was made under false pretenses – it came about as the result of a lie. This would be comparable to a person who buys a house because its former owners failed to disclose that it was built on the site of a toxic waste dump. If Lewis is actually recommending that Christian evangelists practice this sort of dishonest behavior, what does this say about his own ethics? Keep this in mind as we consider Lewis’ moral argument for God’s existence, which is presented in the next section.
….
C.S. Lewis is plainly a gifted writer. Mere Christianity was a quick and enjoyable read, with an engaging and conversational tone, doubtless recapturing some of the atmosphere that accompanied it when it was first broadcast as a series of radio talks. Its reasoning was easy to follow, and the text was peppered with analogies, many of which are quite clever.
However, while this was a literary strength, logically it was a key weakness. There are places where Lewis’ argument is weak or patently flawed, but rather than trying to shore it up by presenting additional facts, he simply restates it as a metaphor. This does not make his case any stronger. He also fails to address several crucial and obvious counterarguments to his points, and has an unfortunate tendency to attempt to downplay or conceal exceptions that refute his arguments, rather than confronting them honestly and openly. The section in the preface where he recommends concealing from prospective converts information that might change their mind about Christianity is the most glaring example; his casual and incurious dismissal of the stark moral differences between cultures, even though his argument absolutely depends on there being no such differences, is another. This is why I summarized this book as “cotton candy apologetics”: fluffy and easy to consume, but ultimately insubstantial.
I do not mean to suggest that Lewis himself was unintelligent. The sections on Christian morality and theology do show evidence of rational consideration and careful reflection; the problem, as it seems to me, is that although he has clearly put a lot of thought into what it would mean for Christianity to be true, he has not invested comparable intellectual effort into arguing that Christianity is indeed true. Instead, he largely takes this for granted. Even when he explicitly argues in favor of it, his arguments have a hurried, cursory feel, as if he were trying to get this boring business out of the way in order to get to the topics he really wanted to talk about. While Christians may find Mere Christianity informative and may even be stimulated to think about their faith in a different way, I sincerely doubt that such shallow argumentation will ever convert a knowledgeable nonbeliever.
I concur with Adam’s conclusions about Lewis and Mere Christianity. While diehard Christians might find his arguments compelling, for those of us who have “been-there-done-that” and have spent years battling and debating Evangelical apologists, Lewis’s claims come off as less than persuasive. Maybe there’s a former atheist somewhere who converted to Christianity after reading Mere Christianity, but I don’t know of any.
Now to the first question: What thinking is yours with regards to the pre-historic eons of worship of nearly all peoples?
Without question, humans have throughout their history generally worshiped deities of some sort. According to Wikipedia:
2.5 billion people worship the Christian God
2 billion people worship the Muslim God
1.2 billion people worship the Hindu deities
Another billion or so people worship other forms of deities or practice animist, pagan religions
While these statistics can be manipulated in any number of ways and make no distinction between actual worship and nominal/cultural religion, it is clear that most people believe in the existence of deities. That said, the article also says that upwards of 2 billion people could be atheists (again, depending on how adherents are counted and classified). We do know that here in the United States, atheist and agnostic numbers are rapidly increasing. Add to these numbers those who self-identify as “nones” — people who are indifferent towards religion or do not identify with any religion — it is clear that Americans are increasingly saying “no thank you” or “fuck off” to sectarian religion. That’s why we see an increasing number of religious freedom laws. Christianity, in particular, is dying on the vine and losing its grip on our culture. The only way to maintain control over our government and society is for laws to be passed that codify everyone’s right to worship God — wink, wink, the Christian God. (Imagine what would happen if Muslims tried to pass similar laws protecting Allah and his prophet Mohammed.)
We now live in the age of science and technology. The Internet is the primary reason religion, particularly Christianity, is under assault on all sides. Before the Internet (and previously, the printing press), sects, churches, and clerics were safe and secure in their religious bubbles. Not any longer.
When we look at past human beliefs, how best do we explain the worship of deities? A God gene? Or as Christians are fond of saying, their God has given every human being a conscience — a moral compass — that provides evidence of his existence (a terrible argument, by the way)?
I would argue that humans are inquisitive beings, seeking answers to existential questions. Thus, humans created gods and religions to answer these questions. It is clear, at least to me, that humans created God, not the other way around. God didn’t write the Bible, humans did. Take a comparative religion class, and what do you learn? That all religions are of human origin. Will God worship remain going forward? In the short term, yes. The short term being hundreds of years. However, if we survive global climate change (and I seriously doubt we will) and don’t nuke ourselves to death, I suspect humans will increasingly lose their need for religion. Is that not what we see in many European countries? While many citizens self-identify with one of the world’s major religions, church attendance is at an all-time low. Take Belgium. Sixty-five percent of people claim to be Christians, yet only thirty-seven percent of them believe in the existence of God, and only five percent of them attend church. This same statistical analysis to numerous other Western countries. While it is true that Christianity is on the rise in Africa and Latin America, I suspect increased affluence, materialism, scientific advancement, and technology will, in time, reverse this trend. God is no match for modernity and the Internet. Perhaps God needs to start a website or a blog: “Hot Takes From Jesus.” Or maybe, “Babes for Jesus” would be better.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Today, I received a one-sentence email from Dawn Scarsella, a Roman Catholic, that said: I hope you find Jesus again. Six little words . . .
First, I didn’t know Jesus was lost. Christians spend their lives seeking Jesus and searching for truth. If, as Christians allege, the Holy Spirit (God) lives inside of every believer as their teacher and guide, why do Christians spend so much time seeking and searching for what they already have? Or, does this notion betray the fact that many (most?) Christians question and doubt the connection they have with Jesus; that far too often they don’t “feel” the presence of God; that despite the pep talks (aka sermons), sacraments, intense praise and worship sessions, and other spiritual cocaine, believers still feel empty inside.
Second, isn’t it God that saves sinners? Isn’t it God, through the work of the Holy Spirit, who regenerates and draws people to saving faith; and isn’t faith itself a gift from God, not of works lest any man should boast (Ephesians 2:8,9)? Christians say that salvation is of the Lord, and no one can save themselves. If this is so, how can any mere mortal “seek” Jesus? If the Bible is indeed the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God and what it says about salvation is true, the only reason I haven’t “found” Jesus is because he is either hiding, I am a reprobate (Romans 1,2), or God has not regenerated me (given me spiritual life) and given me saving faith.
Third, it seems to me that if Jesus wants sinners to find him, he is doing a piss poor job of revealing himself to those who need him. Matt Dillahunty, the host of The Atheist Experience, and a consummate talk show host and debater, often speaks about the problem of God’s divine hiddenness. If, as Christians allege, God wants sinners to find him, why is he hidden to such a degree that there is little to no evidence for his existence? You would think that if God truly doesn’t want anyone to perish and wants every sinner to repent (2 Peter 2:9), that he would make himself known to everyone; that he would be Rudolph’s bright, shining red nose on a crisp, cold winter night. Instead, we are expected to peer into the night sky and read the pages of a contradictory ancient religious text, concluding that the Christian God exists; that Jesus is the virgin-born eternal son of God who came to earth, lived a sinless life, worked countless miracles, died on a Roman cross to atone for human sin, resurrected from the dead three days later, ascended back to Heaven, and will one day — we’ve been waiting 2,000 years — return to earth to judge humanity and create a new Heaven and a new Earth. Sure . . .
The sender of the aforementioned email also included a link to a picture by Thomas Blackshear:
The post where this picture is found describes it this way:
I love this picture of Jesus holding this man and cannot stop looking at it. It’s called Forgiven and it’s by Thomas Blackshear. For me, it so perfectly captures so much about who we are and Who He is. Our weakness and His strength. Our wretchedness and His glory. Our hopelessness and His faithfulness. Our sin and His love.
I assume the woman who emailed me agrees with this author’s sentiments about Jesus. If so, I am confused. She says to me, “I hope you find Jesus again,” yet the text with the picture says that humans are weak, wretched, and hopeless. How can I “seek” Jesus and “find” him if I am, in fact, hopeless and helpless? (John 15:5) If it is Jesus who must come to me, and not me come to him, isn’t it up to Jesus to seek me out and save me from sin and Hell? Jesus knows where I live. He knows my email address and cellphone number. I am ready and willing, Jesus. I want to hear from you, not Dawn Scarsella, Matt, an Orthodox Christian physician, or countless other God-botherers who leave comments, send emails, or write me letters (see other posts here and here). Supposedly, Jesus wants to marry me — the bridegroom and bride analogy. If this is so, I wish his Father would stop sending marriage brokers my way. Want my hand in marriage, Jesus? Want to make love to me? You know where I live. I am waiting.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
In 2016, Polly and I bought a brand-new loveseat and couch. This was a monumental decision for us. Before this purchase, we had never owned a brand-new couch. Never! Over the years, we bought second-hand furniture or used family castoffs. Our thinking went something like this: there is no need to buy nice furniture as long as you have children. As any parent knows, children are hard on furniture. From spills to flops, children can turn nice furniture into something from a CSI crime scene in a few years. And then came grandchildren, and we repeated the abuse all over again. Our last loveseat and couch came from a nearby secondhand store. I believe we paid $399 for the pair. Weathering the abuse of our now-grown children and grandchildren, this furniture had reached what they call in the tech industry its “end of life.” But even then, after eight years of service, we couldn’t bear to haul the furniture off to the landfill. Instead, several of our sons hauled it out to the curb. We placed FREE signs on the furniture, hoping that someone might haul them away. Less than an hour later, a noisy beat-up pickup truck pulled up to the curb, and its passengers exited the truck, excited over their new find. One man’s junk is another man’s treasure. They quickly loaded the furniture on the truck and drove away. Mission accomplished! (Two weeks ago, we did this with an old grill. Everything we put by the road ends up swiftly disappearing.)
Polly and I love having new furniture. It’s nice, even at this late date in life, to have something new. Of course, we turned into furniture Nazis for a time, not allowing the cat or dog on the furniture, nor allowing the grandkids to get anywhere near the furniture with food or drinks. We thought if we can get our adult children sippy cups for their beer and coffee, all will be well. Looking at you, Nathan. Four years later, the new furniture has settled into the rhythm of our home. The dog and cat — both fourteen years old now — and our grandkids know it’s okay to sit on Nana’s precious (said with Gollum’s voice).
After Ashley Furniture delivered the loveseat and couch, we decided that we also needed a new end table. We did not buy a new table, choosing instead to go to the used furniture store to find a table that would match the new furniture. The end table set us back $69. Last year, we gave that table to our youngest daughter, and bought four new tables and matching lamps. My oh my, aren’t the Gerencsers up-town now! After that, we decided that we wanted to replace our massive oak entertainment center — which we gave to son number three — with something a little more understated, giving us more space in our small, 12’x20′ living room. For this purchase, we bought ready-to-assemble (RTA) furniture from the Sauder Woodworking Outlet Store in Archbold, Ohio. Polly chose a unit with colors that matched the loveseat, couch, and carpet. That she “chose” shows how far removed we are from our former patriarchal life. Thanks to a 35% employee discount, our new credenza cost $220. My oldest son and grandson put the unit together, a much more peaceful event than had Polly and I assembled the credenza. Our older children likely remember the time their mother and I decided to hang wallpaper — together. Needless to say, things didn’t go well, with both of us realizing that we loved each other deeply, but hanging wallpaper together was a sure way to end up in divorce court. After forty-two years of marriage, I am glad that we are now able to somewhat work together on household projects. Who knows, we just might stay married.
Parts of this story were written in 2016. The new couch and love seat? They are now well-worn, and our decision to buy furniture with springs in the cushions has proved to be a bad idea. And now that I spend a lot more time on the couch due to my declining health, the cushions are disfigured (and hard to straighten in their coverings) and increasingly uncomfortable. The credenza? DON’T ask! Polly and two of my sons are managers for Sauder’s. Awesome company to work for. All of my children except for Bethany have worked for Sauder’s over the years. I have nothing but admiration and respect for the Sauder family. That said, this particular unit has been problematic from the start, including manufacturing defects. Over the weekend, I installed an XBOX 360 our youngest son gave to us so we could play Tetris and a few arcade games. What should have been a simple project took ninety minutes, lots of swearing, and more than a few Bruce fits. Not a pretty sight. Our youngest son volunteered to do the installation, but I said no. “I can do it, ” I told myself. Yeah, I still have a hard time accepting that I am really sick, disabled, and can’t do what I used to do even a few years ago. Those days are over, but damn if I am willing to accept this fact. Pride is a terrible taskmaster. Another reminder of my failing health came when I repeatedly tried to beat Polly playing Tetris. Years ago, I won every head-to-head match. I beat her into submission, so to speak, every time we played. Now, thanks to osteoarthritis in my hands and declining motor skills, I was the one on the losing end. I did, however, beat Bethany. Woo-hoo, right?
How about you? Do you have any furniture stories to tell? Do you work well with your spouse or significant other? Please share your thoughts in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
This year’s Easter/Passover/Ramadan season has been interesting. For one thing it’s the second such holiday cycle during the COVID-19 pandemic. For another, it witnessed two developments that, at first glance seem contradictory.
The first: A Gallup poll revealed that fewer than 50 percent of Americans identify themselves as members of a church, synagogue, mosque or other religious institution. That is the smallest proportion since 1937, when Gallup first asked the question and 73 percent claimed to be so affiliated.
The second: Arkansas’ state legislature overrode Governor Asa Hutchinson’s veto of a bill that would bar transgender girls from participating in school sports program and would keep health-service professionals from providing transgender-related health care to minors. Similar legislation is on the table in other states, and in others even more draconian measures are under review: Health care professionals who help young trans people get the care they need could face long prison sentences and the revocation of their licenses and certificates.
Although those two developments seem at odds with each other, it actually makes perfect sense that some states are trying to keep young transgender people from affirming themselves at the same time more Americans are dissociating themselves from churches.
Why is that?
Any time a major cultural or societal change is underway reaction to it can be fierce and even violent. Think of the Counter-Reformation, or the way cops and everyday citizens—let alone Klan members—tried, brutally, to resist the Civil Rights movement.
The bad news is, of course, that reactionary people and movements foment fear and hatred, and inspire or even embolden haters to all manner of violence, including murder. The silver lining, if you will, is that the virulence of their reaction is a sure sign that they are ultimately on the wrong, and losing, side of history.
At the dawn of the Civil Rights movement, for every white American who participated in a lynching or cross-burning, there were many more who accepted or rationalized Jim Crow laws as well as other, subtler kinds of discrimination. They might not have chased a black kid off their block, but they didn’t want the same black kid to date, let alone marry, their kid. They knew, deep down, that change was needed but “the time wasn’t right.”
Slowly, such people became aware of their own deeply-held, and often unconscious, assumptions and realized there was no rational basis for them. Moreover, they came to realize that the American system of apartheid was not only unjust and irrational; it benefited no one. The Loving decision not only righted a wrong; it aligned with the Constitution and simply made logical sense. The social order would not be broken by people marrying people of “different” races any more than it would be when members of those “different” races—or faiths or gender identities– entered schools, professions and neighborhoods that, previously, had been off-limits to them.
So, racist beliefs could no more be defended than rigid ideas about gender roles, identities and hierarchies with science, logic or law. The Loving decision deemed that “miscegenation” laws violated the Constitution; four and a half decades later, Robert Shelby, a conservative Republican judge in Utah, would declare that state’s laws defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman as unconstitutional (a pivotal moment, I believe, in the fight for marriage equality). In a similar vein, Asa Hutchinson—a Republican– vetoed an anti-transgender youth bill because, he said, its restrictions were “government overreach.” By the time those actions were taken, people had come to realize that gender identity and sexual orientation cannot be legislated or medicated away, and that racial purity is a myth at best and a lie at worst. (The human race began in Africa. That’s Anthropology 101.)
Those events, of course, have everything to do with Americans’ loosening relationship to churches and such: Nearly all of organized religion—especially Evangelical Christianity—is predicated on racial/ethnic hierarchies and rigid gender identities and roles. It’s pretty difficult to tell a woman to submit herself to a man, in her home or in a church, when she’s running a business or graduating at the top of her law school class. Even if it were possible or even feasible, there just isn’t any rational reason why a woman should stand back if she knows better about something than her male spouse or colleague—or why she should align herself with an institution where she is, at best, a second-class citizen and, at worst, a mere incubator.
Those who benefit from such systems of oppression are, of course, not happy to see the edifices that hold them up being dismantled, brick by brick, or eroded. They also worry that people, especially the young, are not interested in upholding those structures or institutions. The young make up a large portion of the religiously unaffiliated (“nones”), Gallup found.
It means that, deep down, religiously affiliated and reactionary folks know they aren’t going to find replacements for themselves among their children. So, they know that whatever they feel the need to do, they’ll have to do more of, with more intensity, for as long as they can. Their behavior will become more extreme, and they will do whatever they can to hold to their notions of gender, marriage, family and society. That means forcing those notions on everyone else through irrational prohibitions. The only way to get people to support such bans is to stoke their fears by invoking stereotypes, junk science and outright lies. And the only way to enforce those bans is through force. What I have just described culminated in Donald Trump’s judicial appointments: He chose jurists who oppose what most Americans want, including safe and legal access to abortion, the right to marry whomever they wish and to live in accordance with whatever they know to be true about themselves.
Those judicial appointments, the law Asa Hutchinson tried to stop and other retrograde actions and policies are thus part of a reaction against the inevitable: the secularization of the United States of America. Somehow it’s fitting that they came together during the Easter/Passover/Ramadan season.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Earlier today, I received an email from an Orthodox Christian physician located here in Ohio. For his sake, I won’t reveal his name, though I did Google him. He read all of one post, The Biggest Lies in the Bible: Ask and It Shall be Given to You and Seek and Ye Shall Find. After spending five minutes perusing my writing, the good doctor sent me the following email:
Hello my friend I read your post very carefully. I do believe that verse is quite difficult to understand ask and you shall receive seek and you shall find. You’ll notice that it’s repeated approximately six or seven times in the New Testament and at least three in the old. I would like to talk to you about this. I’m a physician by trade, but also and more importantly I’m an Orthodox Christian. I would welcome a conversation with you for [phone number redacted].
I replied,
[name redacted]
You do know that I was an Evangelical pastor for twenty-five years, that I have a theological education, that I preached over 4,000 sermons, and spent thousands and thousands of hours reading and studying the Bible? Surely, you bothered to understand my background before sending this email, right? Of course not. You read all of one post and then fired away. You might want to read Proverbs 18:13: He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.The Message translates Proverbs 18:13 this way: Answering before listening is both stupid and rude.
I am not your friend, though I realize you are using the word in a colloquial sense. You seem to think that I need educated, and that you are the one tasked by God for the project. Imagine a patient comes to see you for the first time, ignores your training and expertise, and tells you what his diagnosis is. You would be irritated and offended by such ignorant and boorish behavior.
The fact that you are a doctor is irrelevant. I suffer from gastroparesis (which is killing me), fibromyalgia, and osteoarthritis. I have met scores of doctors over the years. While I trust these people with my medical care, I wouldn’t turn to them for advice or instruction on non-medical things. Why? Lack of expertise. Doc, all you have is a personal opinion/interpretation about a particular verse (verses) in the Bible. I have been blogging for almost fourteen years. Thousands — yes, thousands — of Christians have deigned to “educate” me about the Bible or pass judgment on my past/present life, including the fifty years I spent in the Christian church. So you will forgive me if I find your email irritating. I am sick, tired, and in pain — lots of pain. In the future, take time to learn about the targets of your evangelistic offers of education/friendship. Had you done so, you would have found out that I am not interested in engaging in such discussions.
Thank you.
Bruce Gerencser
Unbeknownst to me (my fault), Carolyn, my editor (who has been answering most contact emails for me) also responded to him. Here’s what she had to say:
Mr. [last name redacted],
Sorry — Bruce does not take or make telephone calls to readers. If you have something to communicate to him, you may email him just as you did today. But before you spew your biblical knowledge all over Bruce’s blog and email, please read Bruce’s Dear Evangelical page and his Why? page. Once you have read those and all the links therein, if you really, REALLY feel the need to write Bruce again, I promise you that he will read whatever it is you have to communicate to him. Right now, I am Bruce’s gatekeeper, answering emails for him because he is far behind on them and referring to him those that are worth his time. Your message is not.
Happy reading,
Carolyn [last name redacted], editor for Bruce Gerencser
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
What follows is my response to your recent comment on this site. My response is indented and italicized.
Christian means Christ Like.
I assume you are an Evangelical Christian or what is commonly called a Biblical Christian. I assume you also believe that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God.
The word Christian is mentioned three times in the New Testament: Acts 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16, and Acts 11:26. The Greek word for Christian (s) is Christianos, which means a follower of Christ, not Christ-like, as you allege. A Christian, then, is one who follows Jesus, not one who is like him. If, as Evangelicals believe, Jesus is God, is it not impossible for any Christian to be Christ-like? Further, one need only observe how Christians behave to know that if Christ is the standard for saving faith, no one is a Christian.
We are all anything but that. To strive to be Christ like means to lay aside our own foolish pride. Set aside our own differences. We are alike in that we all want to go to the heaven we have all heard of.
Are you not being prideful when you say that you have something that I don’t have, that Christians are headed for Heaven, while Bruce Gerencser, atheists, agnostics, and other unbelievers are headed for Hell?
You assume that I want to go to Heaven. Why would I want to spend eternity in a place overrun with smug, arrogant, self-righteous people who spent their lives on Earth causing division and harm? You say we should set aside our differences, but you really mean that everyone should believe in Jesus as you do. The goal, is it not, is conversion, rather than understanding and mutual agreement?
Going against the word of God is like pushing the tides of the ocean; futile.
This is only true IF one believes the Bible is a supernatural book. I don’t. I once believed as you do. However, once the Bible lost its authority, power, and control over me, I was then free to determine what my beliefs really were and how I wanted to live my life.
We need to focus on the things at hand. I do not wish ill of any person, but neither am I likely to follow just anyone.
The problem, Matt, is that you think your life and experiences are the measures of what should be the “focus on the things at hand.” In your mind, Jesus is the end-all, all that matters. However, I am an atheist. Jesus is a man who died 2,000 years ago, end of story. I categorically reject the claims Christians and their Bible make for Jesus.
I daily struggle with serious health problems. I can safely say that I am dying, that sooner rather than later, I will be no more. It is certainly possible that I could live for years, but I doubt it. My body tells me that I am running out of time. Believing this to be true, I choose to focus on what matters to me: my wife of 42 years, my six grown children and their spouses, my thirteen grandchildren, writing, traveling, and watching/listening to the Cincinnati Reds. I have no time for God, Jesus, Christianity, the Bible, or God-botherers. The only reason I am answering your comment is that I hope my answer will be instructive or helpful to readers of this blog.
I believe in the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I believe that he died and was raised from death on the third day. Not only because of my faith but also logic. Romans had every chance to debunk this as they searched high and low for the man that miraculously disappeared. Pontius Pilate had every reason to find the man that he never could. The most powerful man in the region was in dire straights trying find Jesus after his death, but never could even at the amount of men at his disposal searching.
What evidence do you have for these claims? I have ready EVERY historical reference for Jesus, and not one of them mentions these things. The Romans didn’t have to look for Jesus. They knew exactly where he was — in a tomb. You have no direct historical evidence for the empty tomb. The gospels were written decades after the death of Jesus by unknown authors. At best, these authors wrote down oral stories that had been passed down. At worst, they made shit up. How do you know which is true?
You claim Jesus resurrected from the dead. You think Jesus’ empty tomb is proof that he resurrected from the dead. However, there are other explanations, one that is even mentioned in the Bible. Perhaps, Jesus’ followers removed his body from his tomb and buried it somewhere else. Or perhaps the Romans did. Are not both of these possibilities more likely than Jesus magically resurrecting from the dead? All the available evidence tells us that dead people stay dead. Claiming that a book says a dead man resurrected from the dead doesn’t work for me. You will have to provide better evidence if you want me to believe that Jesus is still alive. How about Jesus making a personal appearance — anywhere? It’s been 2,000 years since anyone has seen Jesus. I think we can safely assume that he is dead and he ain’t coming to the family picnic.
I do not try to hate nor do I try to condemn. it is not my place to say where each one will go at the end of his time. I can say though that Jesus dealt with love not with hate. He loved the prostitute as much as the disciple, and was seen cleaning the feet from the apostles. He was a servant not acting as a worldly king, but as a divine king of the most high.
Matt, please be honest. You are a “Bible-believer.” You believe the words of the Bible came straight from the mouth of God. Thus, you know exactly where I am going when I die, right? Don’t hem and haw, own your abhorrent theology. Quit trying to paint yourself in a good light. You think anyone who doesn’t believe as you do will go to Hell when they die; that they will face eternal punishment for their sins. If I told you I was going to torture my children every day of their lives, all because they believe differently from me, would you consider me a good father? Of course not. In fact, you would call law enforcement and report me for criminal behavior. Yet, your God daily tortures billions of people and plans to torture billions more after they die. Pray tell, what kind of Father is your God? Why would anyone want to worship such an abominable deity?
It is so easy being among others saying that you do not believe. However in the dark of night being alone, how confident are you of your own mortality?
Are you not in the majority — those who believe in the existence of God? It is easy to believe in God, especially in the United States. Nothing is required of you. Your faith costs you nothing except an hour or two on Sundays and the shekels you toss in the offering plate.
People gather at sites like this because they are part of a small, often marginalized community. Try walking in atheists’ shoes before suggesting that in the still of the night we believe differently from what we do in the day. Besides, even if what you say is true, do not Christians do the same? What do Christians ponder in the dark of night? Where’s God? Why is God silent? Why, why, why? Existential questions are part of the fabric of human existence.
We all contemplate those times when by ourselves we wonder what will happen. If you feel that going into the abyss of darkness at the end of your life then what are you living for? IF there is no rhyme or reason to life then what is the purpose?
I don’t wonder about what will happen. I am sixty-three years old. I am sick, broken down, and nearing the end of life. I know EXACTLY what awaits me: death and nothingness.
You seem to suggest that non-Christians should kill themselves because they have nothing to live for. In your mind, this life is just preparation for the life to come. Perhaps you should ask yourself what YOU are living for? A mansion in Heaven? Deliverance from sin? Separation from unbelievers? Day and night worship of God? Is this what your life has been reduced to?
I have much to live for: my beautiful wife, my wonderful children, my awesome grandchildren, finishing my train layout, planting new trees/bushes, traveling to new places, eating good food, watching the Reds and Bengals, writing for this blog, finishing my book, finally publishing my first podcast, and most of all, having bowel movements that are not constipation or diarrhea. Not throwing up would be nice, too, as would making it to the bathroom without embarrassing myself.
God wants to hear from you, and wants you not to rely on yourself but Him.
If God wants to hear from me, he knows where I live. He also has my email address and cellphone number.
Question? Why did you leave this comment? To quote Astreja, “If your god wants to hear from us, mortal, then it bloody well needs to come talk to us in person instead of sending human messenger boys like you.”
Remember that being a Christian is not going to be easy, nor is it going to be without sacrifice. We all give up something to gain something more. We have to keep moving forward and keep his commandments. Loving one another is the greatest of all commandments.
Have you read my story? If you have, you know I sacrificed everything for Jesus for most of my adult life. I now know that I sacrificed my life, marriage, children, economic well-being, and health for a lie. I have lived life on both sides of this discussion. I can tell you that I am happy with where I am today — pain and suffering aside. Why would I ever want to return to the garlic and leeks of Christianity? Why would I ever want to return to the chains of bondage? No thanks. You have nothing to offer me, Matt. I am not sure what you hoped to gain by leaving this comment, other than hearing yourself talk or putting a good word in for Jesus. What possibly could you say that I have not heard (or preached) countless times before? How did you fail to understand that people like me are not prospects for Heaven, that we have no interest in what you are peddling? Yet, you commented anyway.
We live by example, we show others the way to live and love not hate. Nobody in the Bible is without sin other than Jesus. Even when we stumble he is there to pick us up. We have only to ask. Knock and the door will be opened.
Ask yourself, Matt, what example have you left for the people who will read this post? What in your behavior emulates Jesus and makes Christianity appealing to unbelievers? Can you not see that your comment comes off as little more than an Evangelical Christian masturbating in public? Your comment might have made you feel good, but all it did for me and the readers of this blog — people who know the Bible inside out, many of whom were pastors, missionaries, evangelists, and fervent believers — is remind us that Evangelical Christians are narcissists who just love to hear themselves talk. Your comment comes off as a sermon, not an honest interaction with a former follower of Jesus.
Bruce, a sinner SAVED by Reason
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
It is a warm summer day in Manistee, Michigan. A man and his wife of thirty-five years get out of their black Ford Fusion to view Lake Michigan. They love the water, and if their life’s journey had taken them on another path, perhaps they would live in a cottage on the shore of one of the Great Lakes or in a small fishing village on the Atlantic coast.
But as fate would have it, Ohio has been their home for most of their marriage. No matter where they moved, be it Texas, Michigan, or Arizona, they always came back, like the proverbial bad penny, to Ohio.
For the past six years they have lived in rural northwest Ohio, in a small community with one stoplight, two bars, two churches, a grain elevator, gas station and 345 people. They live in a town where nothing happens, and the safety and stillness that “nothing” affords is fine by them.
They have made their peace with Ohio. After all, it is where their children and grandchildren live. This is home, and it is here that they will die some moment beyond their next breath.
But from time to time, the desire to dip their feet in a vast expanse of water, to hear the waves crashing on a shore and to walk barefooted on the beach calls out to them, and off they go.
They can no longer travel great distances; four to six hours away is the limit. The man’s body is used up and broken, most days he needs a cane and some days a wheelchair to get from point to point. Long trips in the car extract a painful price from his body, a toll that is paid weeks after they have returned home.
But today, the water calls, and on a warm July day they travel to South Haven, Michigan and then up the eastern shore of Lake Michigan to Manistee. Their travels will later take them to Sault Ste Marie before they return home to Ohio.
Few people are at the Manistee beach, so unlike South Haven, where the beaches and streets are filled with pushy, bustling, impatient tourists. The man and his wife have been to South Haven many times, but as they see the scarcity of people and the quietness of Manistee they say, I think we have found a new place to stay when we vacation.
The beach is owned by thousands of Plovers. It is an amazing sight to behold. The man and his wife are mesmerized by the birds, and the man, ever possessed of his camera, begins to take pictures.
Soon the serenity of the place is ruined by a stupid boy who sees the birds as worthy of his scorn and derision. The birds are covering the landscape of HIS beach, and he will have none of that. So he runs through the mass of birds screaming and waving his arms. This put the birds into flight, complaining loudly about the stupid boy.
The man and his wife turn their attention to the pier and lighthouse in the distance. She asks, Do you think you can make it? He replies, Sure. So off they go.
As they begin their slow, faltering stroll on the pier, they notice a sign that says, No Jumping or Swimming off the Pier. The man smiles quietly to himself as he sees four teenage boys doing what the sign prohibits. He remembers long ago when he, too, would have looked at the sign and proceeded to do exactly what the sign prohibited. He thinks, the folly, wonder, and joy of youth.
As the man and his wife pass the boys in the water, one of them calls out and says, How are you today, sir? The man thought, Sir? Am I really that old? He knows the answer to the question before he asks. For a few moments the man talks with the boys, then haltingly continues to walk down the pier with his wife.
Not far from the boys, the man, and his wife come upon a pair of ducks: a male, his female, and their brood of ten young ducklings. New life. The man wonders: How many of the ducklings will survive their youth? He knows the answer and this troubles him a bit. A reminder, that, for all its beauty, life is harsh, filled with pain, suffering, and death.
The man and his wife turn back to where the boys are swimming. The man thinks, as he looks at the shallow water with its rock-filled bottom, this is a dangerous place to be diving into the water.
But the boys are oblivious to the danger. The man’s mind races back to the days of his youth, remembering a time when he too lived without fear, enjoying the freedom of living in the moment.
One of the boys climbs back up on the pier and prepares to jump into the water. The man, a hundred feet or so from the boy, points his camera toward him. The man quickly adjusts the shutter speed, focuses the lens, and begins to shoot.
The man and his wife laugh as they watch the boy. Collectively, their minds wander back to a hot summer day in July when they joined their hands together and said, I do. Thirty-five years ago, they embraced one another and jumped off into the rock-strewn water of life, and survived.
Together they turn to walk back to the car. As they pass the boys, the man shouts, I am going to make you famous. The boys laugh and continue on with the horseplay that dominates their day.
The boys will never know that their innocence, their sign-defying plunges off a pier in Manistee, Michigan, warmed the heart of the man and his wife.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Evangelicals love the Protestant Christian Bible. Evangelicals believe that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible Word of God. Every word in the Good Book is straight from the mouth of God. Thus, when seeking “truth,” where do Evangelicals turn? The Bible. 2 Peter 1:3 states:
According as his [God’s] divine power hath given unto us [Christians] all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue.
Through the Bible, the Holy Spirit, and conscience, God gives to Christians everything that pertains to life and godliness. Unbelievers, of course, lack this knowledge and understanding. Their minds have been darkened by the God of this world, Satan. While unbelievers have the intellectual ability to read, their depravity keeps them from truly “knowing” what the Bible says.
I was in the Christian church for fifty years. I spent twenty-five years pastoring Evangelical churches. I read the Bible from cover to cover numerous times, spending tens of thousands of hours studying its pages. I had a deep, passionate love for the Bible. As a pastor, I preached over 4,000 sermons — all from the Word of God. I am not bragging, then, when I say that I know and understand the Bible.
According to many Evangelical apologists, I don’t really “know” the Bible. The moment I said I was no longer a Christian, all my Bible knowledge magically disappeared — àla a Men in Black mind wipe. This argument is absurd, ranking right up there with the belief that I am still a Christian. Why do Evangelicals refuse to accept that I “know” the Bible? Simple. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 2:14:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Let me translate this verse for you:
Unsaved people do not understand the things of the Spirit of God [the Bible] To unbelievers, the Bible is a foolish book. Its teachings cannot be understood by non-Christians because the Holy Spirit does not live inside of them as their teacher and guide.
If, as Evangelicals allege, the Holy Spirit lives inside [where?] of every Christian, why are so many [most?] believers ignorant of the Bible’s teachings? Why are there so many Christian sects, each with its own interpretations of the Bible? Why can’t Christian churches and pastors even agree on the basics: salvation, baptism, and communion?
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
This text tells us that there is:
One body [church]
One Holy Spirit
One hope
One Lord
One faith
One baptism
One God and Father
Pray tell where can we find what these verses speak of? Sectarianism, division, and internecine warfare abound. It seems, then, that having the Holy Spirit living inside of you doesn’t do much, if anything, knowledge-wise. Ask one hundred Christians a theological question, and you will be given one hundred answers. I have written numerous posts over the past thirteen years detailing the various Christian systems of beliefs and hermeneutics. All roads better lead to Heaven. If not, a lot of Christians are going to land in Hell when they die. Why? Wrong beliefs. Evangelicals love to preach up salvation by grace, but what really matters is right beliefs. It is right beliefs that determine one’s eternal destiny, not faith or grace. Believe the wrong things, and you are going to fry.
Now to the subject of the post: is the Bible a “simple” book? Based on what I wrote above, you would think that that answer to this question is no! Understanding the Bible requires God living inside of you. This same God darkens the minds [hearts] of unbelievers so they cannot understand the Bible’s teachings. Unless God, through regeneration, gives unbelievers faith, it is impossible for them to savingly believe and understand the Bible. Or so Evangelicals — especially Calvinists — say, anyway.
Yet, many Evangelicals encourage unbelievers to read the Bible. “The Bible is so simple, even a child can understand it,” evangelizers say. Often, unbelievers are told to start reading the gospel of John (never mind the fact that this gospel contradicts Matthew, Mark, and Luke in numerous places). “Just read John, and God will reveal himself to you!” If the Bible is such a “simple” book, why do preachers and theologians own countless books that tell them what the Bible says? If the Bible is such a “simple” book,, why do pastors attend BIBLE colleges and seminaries? It seems to me that the Bible is anything but “simple.”
Most Evangelical laypeople (and many pastors) believe the Bible is a “simple” book. Pastors reinforce this false notion in their sermons. Many churches encourage congregants to follow daily Bible reading schedules such as Our Daily Bread (most Christians never read through the Bible one time). These reading schedules present Christians with a truncated, sanitized reading of the Bible. I quite certain that none of these pastor-approved Bible reading schedules covered Ezekiel 23:18-21 (The Message):
I turned my back on her just as I had on her sister. But that didn’t slow her down. She went at her whoring harder than ever. She remembered when she was young, just starting out as a whore in Egypt. That whetted her appetite for more virile, vulgar, and violent lovers—stallions obsessive in their lust. She longed for the sexual prowess of her youth back in Egypt, where her firm young breasts were caressed and fondled.
The New Living Translation (NLT) renders Ezekiel 23:18-21 this way:
In the same way, I became disgusted with Oholibah and rejected her, just as I had rejected her sister, because she flaunted herself before them and gave herself to satisfy their lusts. Yet she turned to even greater prostitution, remembering her youth when she was a prostitute in Egypt. She lusted after lovers with genitals as large as a donkey’s and emissions like those of a horse. And so, Oholibah, you relived your former days as a young girl in Egypt, when you first allowed your breasts to be fondled.
Imagine the discussion during family devotions (another practice Evangelicals love to talk about but rarely do) over this passage of Scripture. “Mommy, what does it mean to have genitals as large as a donkey’s and emissions like those of a horse?”
The Bible is many things, but “simple” it is not. That’s why Evangelicals should invest time in actually reading and studying the Bible. Doing so is a good way to turn people into atheists.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
Several years ago, The Foundations of Morality blog posted an article by “Dr.” David Brown that gives seven reasons why Christians should NEVER, EVER drink alcoholic beverages (links have been removed due to the malware they serve up):
Drinking leads to drunkenness
The Bible condemns strong drink
In Bible times what Christians drank was sub-alcoholic, basically purified water
It will call others to stumble
It harms our bodies which are the Lord’s
Alcohol is addictive
Believers are kings and priests separated unto God
Are you ready, contestants? It’s time to play The Evangelical Never, Ever Game.
Using David Brown’s “logic,” I can come to the following conclusion:
Eating food leads to gluttony
The Bible condemns gluttony
Gluttony will cause others to stumble
Gluttony harms our bodies
Eating food is addictive
Conclusion? Don’t eat food.
Wasn’t that fun? Let’s play another round.
Sex leads to fornication and adultery
The Bible condemns fornication and adultery
Fornication and adultery will cause others to stumble
Fornication and adultery harm our bodies (not really, but Christians think they do)
Sex is addictive
Conclusion? Don’t have sex.
Isn’t this game fun? Feel free to continue playing the game in the comment section.
Bruce Gerencser, 66, lives in rural Northwest Ohio with his wife of 45 years. He and his wife have six grown children and thirteen grandchildren. Bruce pastored Evangelical churches for twenty-five years in Ohio, Texas, and Michigan. Bruce left the ministry in 2005, and in 2008 he left Christianity. Bruce is now a humanist and an atheist.
